It's The Tom Pabst Show

And here's your host..... Over to you, Tom, I'm off down the pub.

"Gerry Aitken" wrote... > And here's your host..... > > Over to you, Tom, I'm off down the pub. Yeah, and people complained about the RASCAR posts... sheesh!! ;-) Jan. =---

>> Over to you, Tom, I'm off down the pub. > >Yeah, and people complained about the RASCAR posts... sheesh!! ;-) You read my mind, Jan... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > You read my mind, Jan... Coincidence... if I really could you'd be negative by now. ;-( Jan. =---

In article <b2D69.66371$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >"EldredP" wrote... >> > <snip> >> You read my mind, Jan... > >Coincidence... if I really could you'd be negative by now. ;-( I've pretty much given up on that, unfortunately. I think I'm at my limits... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Okay...I didn't start this....you did! ....lol... TP PS: People will start complaining about this being worse than the RASCAR strings.......its not my fault! "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oEA69.66225$[email hidden]...

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> "Gerry Aitken" wrote... > > And here's your host..... > > > > Over to you, Tom, I'm off down the pub. > > Yeah, and people complained about the RASCAR posts... sheesh!! ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > >

>I've pretty much given up on that, unfortunately. I think I'm at my >limits... > >Eldred Bah, you're in a rut. Try new things. Brake late as a sumbitch, play with the throttle more in the corners, drive it like ya stole it. Then try the granny approach. Brake 1000 meters before the next corner. Stay off the throttle totally in the corners. NOW, take those two styles and combine them to whatever makes you the fastest. GPL is not about being smooth, but it's also not about completely sliding the car around. Forget any racing knowledge you have and just drive your heart out. ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://simcrash.fameflame.dk

I dont mean to be arrogant, but this will sound..... I personally cannot possibly see how you can play GPL even only a few hours a month and not go negative.... The times are so slow all you need to do to go negative is wander around the track in 5th gear.... As Dan said GPL is about learning, adapting and implementing new styles in your driving. When I came online I took a look at gregers laps or wolfgang and found 1.5secs a lap from just watching a replay....after a few months online id got from -30 to -60ish mainly from learning from those around me. Looking back now and each time I drive now, Im always looking at different braking points, entry lines etc and i've prolly done a few thousand laps of most tracks... Seems to be what makes the difference in some people, the will, want, desire to be fastest, and as a result having an extra ability to push themselves and what they though were there previous limits to new levels.... There were points in the past when i thought i was near my limit doing 23's at zandy, after releasing this was complete rubbish and I just had learn to adapt and change what im doing, and since that point in my career has been the same each time i drive, there always something new to learn, but only if you want to find it. Lets be honest if your not into the -30 -50 area theres just tons of time to be gained everywhere, infact this period is the most rewarding of the learning curve, as you cant cut TONS of time off with such ease. This due to the fact your nowhere near the car or the tracks limit, or near the limit of the human ability. 3factors you need to look carefully at to find out where your can gain in each. Id had friends with no sim knowledge, credit reasonable go-karters and able drivers in RL, I have got these guys within 1hr of solid driving from cold (never tried GPL or a PC sim) to a 1:29 or 1:30 at monza, with constant tution. The same tution youll find in a replay of a fast lap i guess.....get some fast lap replays like these http://home.clara.net/david.powell4/replays.html im sure with one look youll see you can brake 30metres later into most turns etc with no effort, this will give you 2secs a lap over 4-5turns, theres the ticket to going negative etc EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <b2D69.66371$[email hidden]>, "JanVerschueren"

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >"EldredP" wrote... > >> > <snip> > >> You read my mind, Jan... > > > >Coincidence... if I really could you'd be negative by now. ;-( > > I've pretty much given up on that, unfortunately. I think I'm at my

limits...

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> > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+8.09 > N2002 Rank:+22.329 > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

With no disrespect to Eldred at all,it's just that he is the famous person on GPL Rank but for how long he has been so close to being negative i am amazed at his inability to get there. For myself GPL was a game until i heard about GPL Rank. Out of total curiosity i submitted my lap times to it(including the 10min Nurb lap i did when it said it needed a lap from ALL tracks...lol),this threw up a score of +210.xx So i wanted to explore my own abilities and see how far i could go in a month. I stopped at -3.xx. That was done totally by watching replays of the SRMSC races with the aliens. Although i couldn't get to grips with braking 20 yards from the turn at 195mph i could see the lines and the longer 'tolerance' zone. No doubt if i gave it a long time and dedication of a sort i could do better,but i know it's there. So still i sit here and wonder what someone who gets to Eldreds level must do....does he watch and learn...?..does he think he is at the extreme of his ability...? does he think that the car can't possibly do those things with HIM driving it...? Maybe it's all in his head.....either way he can do it and he isn't doing. I like David had my friend from 2.10 at Monza to 1.31 in one night.....and he went away thrilled,bought a PC and has been addicted ever since,presently showing a rank of +7.23 after 3 months. Like you David....i wonder about the others.:) Andy

looking back I actually think being good at any no physical sport is entirely psychological, in GPL this is paramount, as with any task where you need to run at the limits of concentration. lucky ive always been an evilly competitive bastard....a attribute I share with the other people I know who are good behind the wheel or handlebars... seems all humans have two eyes, a brain, two arms and feet...just some have the right psychological makeup to want to push themselves harder than others... then theres the sutble into the small differences in mindset that seperate one driver of equal speed from another when under pressure or leading, and each person is very different in these situations when sim racing... the psychological side of sports facinates me.....I could prolly rant on about all my feeling for a good 10000words if i wanted to on this subject...most interesting side is what happens in a race when say 3 guys are racing at near WR pace for a championship decider...here I can tell all I need to about the person infront from how he reacts to my presence etc.... Andrew <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ajj7td$kl6$[email hidden]...

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> With no disrespect to Eldred at all,it's just that he is the famous person > on GPL Rank but for how long he has been so close to being negative i am > amazed at his inability to get there. > > For myself GPL was a game until i heard about GPL Rank. > > Out of total curiosity i submitted my lap times to it(including the 10min > Nurb lap i did when it said it needed a lap from ALL tracks...lol),this > threw up a score of +210.xx > > So i wanted to explore my own abilities and see how far i could go in a > month. > > I stopped at -3.xx. > > That was done totally by watching replays of the SRMSC races with the > aliens. > > Although i couldn't get to grips with braking 20 yards from the turn at > 195mph i could see the lines and the longer 'tolerance' zone. > > No doubt if i gave it a long time and dedication of a sort i could do > better,but i know it's there. > > So still i sit here and wonder what someone who gets to Eldreds level must > do....does he watch and learn...?..does he think he is at the extreme of

his

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> ability...? does he think that the car can't possibly do those things with > HIM driving it...? > > Maybe it's all in his head.....either way he can do it and he isn't doing. > > I like David had my friend from 2.10 at Monza to 1.31 in one night.....and > he went away thrilled,bought a PC and has been addicted ever

since,presently

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> showing a rank of +7.23 after 3 months. > > Like you David....i wonder about the others.:) > > > Andy > >

Having the 'bottle' is just as important as the other more talked about attributes. I suggest having raced some important tourneys that i am a little short on ultimate 'bottle'.....but well above average.:) Andy

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Dan Belcher) writes:

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>Bah, you're in a rut. Try new things. Brake late as a sumbitch, play with >the >throttle more in the corners, drive it like ya stole it. Then try the granny >approach. Brake 1000 meters before the next corner. Stay off the throttle >totally in the corners. NOW, take those two styles and combine them to >whatever makes you the fastest. GPL is not about being smooth, but it's also >not about completely sliding the car around. Forget any racing knowledge you >have and just drive your heart out.

Knowledge...? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Knowledge...? :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <ajjl8k$6qb$[email hidden]>, "Andrew" <[email hidden]> writes: >Having the 'bottle' is just as important as the other more talked about >attributes. > >I suggest having raced some important tourneys that i am a little short on >ultimate 'bottle'.....but well above average.:) Ok, what does 'having the bottle' mean? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: >lucky ive always been an evilly competitive bastard....a attribute I share >with the other people I know who are good behind the wheel or handlebars... > I'm extremely competitive, also. I've been called TOO competitive at times. *Wanting* to win and being ABLE to are 2 different things. >seems all humans have two eyes, a brain, two arms and feet...just some have >the right psychological makeup to want to push themselves harder than >others... Pushing yourself has nothing to do with it. I've been in races with slower drivers. They push so hard they keep spinning off the track while trying to keep up. I've done the same trying to keep up with guys faster than me. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <ajj7td$kl6$[email hidden]>, "Andrew" <[email hidden]> writes: >So still i sit here and wonder what someone who gets to Eldreds level must >do....does he watch and learn...?..does he think he is at the extreme of his >ability...? does he think that the car can't possibly do those things with >HIM driving it...? > As I've told David - I've watched more fast replays than I can remember... >Maybe it's all in his head.....either way he can do it and he isn't doing. How can it be all in my head? I try to follow the same lines, brake the same places, and accelerate at the same spots. I've torn up enough virtual cars to open a scrap dealership. > >I like David had my friend from 2.10 at Monza to 1.31 in one night.....and >he went away thrilled,bought a PC and has been addicted ever since,presently >showing a rank of +7.23 after 3 months. > >Like you David....i wonder about the others.:) You guys are just aliens, that's all. Different people have different skills. You're better that we are - no need to put anyone down over it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: >I dont mean to be arrogant, but this will sound..... > >I personally cannot possibly see how you can play GPL even only a few hours >a month and not go negative.... > You're right - it sounds arrogant. >The times are so slow all you need to do to go negative is wander around the >track in 5th gear.... If it were that easy, wouldn't all 3000 or so people who've submitted a GPLRank be negative?

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>As Dan said GPL is about learning, adapting and implementing new styles in >your driving. When I came online I took a look at gregers laps or wolfgang >and found 1.5secs a lap from just watching a replay....after a few months >online id got from -30 to -60ish mainly from learning from those around me. >Looking back now and each time I drive now, Im always looking at different >braking points, entry lines etc and i've prolly done a few thousand laps of >most tracks... > >Seems to be what makes the difference in some people, the will, want, desire >to be fastest, and as a result having an extra ability to push themselves >and what they though were there previous limits to new levels....

David, you have no IDEA of my desire, so please don't be presumptuous. I've been chasing this for maybe 2 years, and I've played the game for maybe 3. When GPLRank first came out, I believe I was at about +137 or so.

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>There were points in the past when i thought i was near my limit doing 23's >at zandy, after releasing this was complete rubbish and I just had learn to >adapt and change what im doing, and since that point in my career has been >the same each time i drive, there always something new to learn, but only if >you want to find it. Lets be honest if your not into the -30 -50 area theres >just tons of time to be gained everywhere, infact this period is the most >rewarding of the learning curve, as you cant cut TONS of time off with such >ease. This due to the fact your nowhere near the car or the tracks limit, or >near the limit of the human ability. 3factors you need to look carefully at >to find out where your can gain in each.

Don't assume that it's a lack of wanting it. And obviously there's plenty of room for improvement. The simple fact that there are some guys who are -50 and faster proves that it can be done. I haven't doubted that for a second. > >Id had friends with no sim knowledge, credit reasonable go-karters and able >drivers in RL, I have got these guys within 1hr of solid driving from cold >(never tried GPL or a PC sim) to a 1:29 or 1:30 at monza, with constant >tution. I can't comment on that - it probably took me over a year to break 1:30 at Monza. >The same tution youll find in a replay of a fast lap i guess.....get some >fast lap replays like these http://home.clara.net/david.powell4/replays.html >im sure with one look youll see you can brake 30metres later into most turns >etc with no effort, this will give you 2secs a lap over 4-5turns, theres the >ticket to going negative etc I've studied replays. I've downloaded a TON. Braking 30 meters later results in a crash. You're right - that doesn't take any effort at all...<g> I simply cannot brake as late, carry as much speed, or get back on the gas as soon as the fast guys. I don't know why, either. If I did, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. I have some laps posted at this site: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/eplaps.html They're not up-to-date, but they're not far off. I think I've gone *maybe* a second faster at most tracks, and I've run a 8:30 at the Ring. See for yourself. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred You could always drive the way Dave and his buddies do. They use strange setups and do odd things with the throttle while braking. I'm sure if Dave had to drive in a realistic manner you'd piss all over him. :) Gerry

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Ok, what does 'having the bottle' mean? having balls. Jan. =---

"David Powell" wrote: > looking back I actually think being good at any no physical sport is > entirely psychological, in GPL this is paramount, as with any task where you > need to run at the limits of concentration. I disagree, I think it is more about technique and natural ability at computer sims. We are talking about the ability to run hotlaps here when discussing times and gplrank, rather than racing. I happen to know of an 11 year old who liked Castle Combe. I told his dad about GPL and that Castle Combe was available and he got it purely for Castle Combe (where his dad had raced in saloons & F3). Without any previous gpl experience he was close to WR times. Way faster than his dad who had raced there in RL. I put it down to the fact that he had only experienced visual & sound aids to "driving". He didn't miss the lack of the physical side as he had never experienced it. My view is the quick computer simmers are better at adapting to the limited inputs provided than others. My son can thrash me at Fifa2002 - relating keystrokes to physical movements of players is just too foreign for me. Ok we may have steering wheels and pedals in both RL and sims, but it still follows the same analogy. This isn't a put down. Sim racing is my hobby and there are simply people much better than it than I am. Just as if I took up golf for the rest of my life I doubt I would reach the highest level. These things can't be taught or learnt from watching others beyond a level of competency. Examples of getting from 2 mins to 1:30 at Monza are not surprising. Getting to a 1:26 is a whole different matter that can't be achieved by practice alone IMHO, it needs the ability. > lucky ive always been an evilly competitive bastard....a attribute I share > with the other people I know who are good behind the wheel or handlebars... Don't see why a competitive nature would make you quicker on the track alone with no fear of injury (the need for bottle) and whilst not being watched. Sure it will when it comes to racing or limited qualifying but not for unlimited practice. Yes it will make you more determined to practise longer and work harder at learning techniques, but will not give the speed itself. In RL this is different as competitive nature will determine the level of risk prepared to take. This is absent in sim hotlapping IMO. I don't believe RL and sim lapping can be compared in this way. Many of my PBs have been in online qualifying sessions - suggesting a competitive nature. However, these PBs are (sadly) way off the pace of the top guys :-( > then theres the sutble into the small differences in mindset that seperate > one driver of equal speed from another when under pressure or leading, and > each person is very different in these situations when sim racing... Agreed - when it comes to simracing the same psychological factors apply to RL racing. To be at the top of any sport - physical or not requires dedication and work, but also ability. Some can put in all the time and effort and never achieve it, it shouldn't be assumed they haven't tried as hard. Tony

Tony....this is my point The World No.1 rank is -92.00 The amazing incredible major impossible hurdle for 'ordinary' drivers is 0.00... So we can for arguments sake say that there is 92 seconds more in it over the 11 tracks... An average(just for ease) of 8.36 seconds..... Now most people admit that 1.30 at Monza is easy enough... So that is 4 secs off the WR....so we have 4 secs in reserve as we move onto the next track. On longer tracks we use up an extra second or two..... So all told i dont think its that hard to be 0.00 Having read Eldred's times the problem is so obvious.....his times are similar to mine at most tracks except two. Rouen his time is horrendously bad compared to his driving elsewhere...2.02 is shocking. Likewise 3.23 at Spa is poor.... I almost guarantee a little observation and coaching from David or even me would make Eldred negative just by getting him to crack those two tracks..... 1.58.5 at Rouen and 3.18.5 at Spa would do the trick. Ask David if he will coach you for this purpose Eldred :) Andy

In article <16q79.70079$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >"EldredP" wrote... >> <snip> >> Ok, what does 'having the bottle' mean? > >having balls. Ah, so it was an insult? Good to know... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: > > >lucky ive always been an evilly competitive bastard....a attribute I share > >with the other people I know who are good behind the wheel or handlebars... > > > > I'm extremely competitive, also. I've been called TOO competitive at times. > *Wanting* to win and being ABLE to are 2 different things. > > >seems all humans have two eyes, a brain, two arms and feet...just some have > >the right psychological makeup to want to push themselves harder than > >others... > > Pushing yourself has nothing to do with it. I've been in races with slower > drivers. They push so hard they keep spinning off the track while trying to > keep up. I've done the same trying to keep up with guys faster than me. > > Eldred >

See Eldred, that's the difference. You're "racing", and Dave is "hot- lapping". I'm a 16 in GPLrank from simply racing. What does that mean? Nothing. I go out to turn the best lap possible with my setups and I do okay. Sometimes I win, many times I don't. As long as I'm there at the end, I really don't care because I usually outlasted even some of the faster cars. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

dont talk rubbish ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... im a racer idoit! John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: > > > > >lucky ive always been an evilly competitive bastard....a attribute Ishare > > >with the other people I know who are good behind the wheel orhandlebars... > > > > > > > I'm extremely competitive, also. I've been called TOO competitive attimes. > > *Wanting* to win and being ABLE to are 2 different things. > > > > >seems all humans have two eyes, a brain, two arms and feet...just somehave > > >the right psychological makeup to want to push themselves harder than > > >others... > > > > Pushing yourself has nothing to do with it. I've been in races withslower > > drivers. They push so hard they keep spinning off the track whiletrying to

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> > keep up. I've done the same trying to keep up with guys faster than me. > > > > Eldred > > > > See Eldred, that's the difference. You're "racing", and Dave is "hot- > lapping". I'm a 16 in GPLrank from simply racing. What does that mean? > Nothing. I go out to turn the best lap possible with my setups and I do > okay. Sometimes I win, many times I don't. As long as I'm there at the > end, I really don't care because I usually outlasted even some of the > faster cars. > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> says...

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> dont talk rubbish > > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more > league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... > > im a racer idoit! >

Hot-lapper... "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Hot-lapper... "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever seen (next to the ***we see out of Wilshe)... -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the average man. As its more difficult therefor those with the best natural ablilty will further distend the gaps between them and the normal guys IMHO. I am fully able to do all those, along with clutchless changes up and down the box by rev matching in any car I drive in RL...therefor i doubt doing that in a sim with constant factoring will be any effort at all.... http://home.clara.net/pamelapowell/churchbends2.AVI here a bit of the aformentioned in my road car :) Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Eldred > > You could always drive the way Dave and his buddies do. They use strange > setups and do odd things with the throttle while braking. I'm sure if > Dave had to drive in a realistic manner you'd piss all over him. :) > > Gerry

Just by saying this your proving you have no knowledge of me and my GPL career.... *Muppet* Afterall idoit, this thread was talking about GPLrank and going negative yes? This indicates people upload ranks to get a speed rating which is the fastest laps usually done in qualification or offline testing, yes offline testing, all my PB's are done offline, and done offline for many reasons......as with everyone else. You seem to forget the fact I can then go online turn in a lap as fast or slighty slower, then adjust my driving and lap within 0.5 of that qual lap for 2hrs+ at max speed with very few errors..... I suggest my friend, before you start on the slippery slope to a hotlapper versus racer debate you download some MOG1, MOG2, SRMSC elites 1,2,3,4,5 GPLWS elite 3,4,5 replays, from any race, and see that the cream of hotlappers ie top 0.5% on GPLRank (yes thing in debate here) are also the cream of racers... Im fact in amazed after such debate there still the hotlapper vs racer thing going on the people that do both are same....just hotlapping is one side and racing is the other, i can only name 2-3drivers our of my say top30 list that cant race for toffee..... John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> says... > > dont talk rubbish > > > > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more > > league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... > > > > im a racer idoit! > > > > Hot-lapper... > > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

secondly its always some slow as fuck nonce that gets this pile shit debate going... Hotlapper offline, Racer online...horses for courses..... John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> > Hot-lapper... > > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

secondly its always some slow as *** nonce that gets this pile shit debate going... Hotlapper offline, Racer online...horses for courses.....

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> Hot-lapper... > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the ***we see out of Wilshe)... > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

> See Eldred, that's the difference. You're "racing", and Dave is "hot- > lapping". When im offline im practicing to get faster.... When im online im using that knowledge to allow me to drive faster, but faster and more safely, faster offline = faster online (0.5allowed off PB for race safety margin and tyre temps) so say i hotlap zandy at 22.58 in lotus i can safety race at 0.5slower (more allowing for fuel consumption and weight but on the same load 0.5slower) so i can race lap at 23.08. I then offline practicing (hotlapping) get a 22.00, i have learn to extract another 0.5, this is then stored in knowledge of exactly how i did it by studying replay analyser. I can then safely drive 0.5 faster in the next race so my race laps would be 22.50...This is how it works.... take my race laps and im a -70+ take my online qual laps ill be a -80ish Even when racing im driving the car as hard as its able to go, with me driving it everylap to my limit of concentration, but at the same time giving away 0.5 from my very limit in order to make sure gearchanges are done correctly and gently and making sure im getting good consistant tyre temps and not pushing them beyond the 230F 280R limit of drop off.....and most importantly making sure I dont spin, crash or pop a motor.... so whats your point? > > >I'm a 16 in GPLrank from simply racing. What does that mean?

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> Nothing. I go out to turn the best lap possible with my setups and I do > okay. Sometimes I win, many times I don't. As long as I'm there at the > end, I really don't care because I usually outlasted even some of the > faster cars. > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

It least you don't deny you drive gpl in a unrealistic manner. If we all used an actlabs shifter and had to heel & toe, whether you'd be any good when compared to others is a matter of debate, not of fact as you seem to think it is. BTW, how fast are you going (top speed) in that RL clip? gerry

This debate makes "ME" so mad for "THESE" reasons..... I'm not defending myself here, im defending everyone as if you call me a hotlapper, your calling those around me one, those ahead and behind me, those I know to be the worlds finest sim racers present and past..... and be honest, slow nonces with no idea what the fuck there on about who start this age old debate of f***ing b***shit piss me off SO MUCH!.... Its like a slow person whos prolly never watched a full GP replay from F1 MOG champ which has the Top20 guys racing, yes the top 20 hotlappers at rank..... Suddenly this a***hole thinks everyone at the top of the rank list is purely a hotlapper..... F*** OFF! sorry i cant help but get so mad over one, its like a decreditation of everything that the top league admins, top drivers top server hosts have ever done for the game....in a racing respect .... then for some prick to say were all hotlappers....and some arsehole plodding around the track like a fucking nonce 6secs of the pace is a racer!! again F*** OFF! call greger a hotlapper, stewart, enstrom, weber, wilke, miskilley etc no Id say there infinately more talented than your slow arse in every possible respect, hotlap, qual, race, mindset, natural ablilty everything and some one as f****ing slow as you too just term those above them as hotlappers is just profanity... If there were 20 places in the world LAN RACING contest and it was invite only, I wonder which names and from what end of the scale would be picked for this RACING event.... The 20best races you fool, the 20 at the top of the list, as there the 20 active and most talented *drivers* be that in a race or in the qually session. This is where there experience counts you see, as they know the difference between these and the merits of each, and eachs merits towards each other.... John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> says... > > dont talk rubbish > > > > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more > > league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... > > > > im a racer idoit! > > > > Hot-lapper... > > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:45:39 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: >seems all humans have two eyes, a brain, two arms and feet...just some have >the right psychological makeup to want to push themselves harder than >others... I think there's more to it than that. Sure, I could knock 30 seconds off my GPLRank in a weekend if I went track by track and pushed the car too hard into each turn to determine where the exact limit was, but I dunno what the fun is in that. As it stands, I'm perfectly secure with my rank and I regularly sit down and run 30 or 40 laps without leaving the pavement. I dunno, my goals with any racing simulation are to have fun and to experience what a real driver does to the extent that is possible in front of a computer. I've never found hotlapping to be helpful with either of those two goals. Racing 1 clean lap for every 10 in order to find a limit just isn't appealing, and running setups that sit on the bump stops for an entire lap while using the brake and gas simultaneously in every corner doesn't help with the realism aspect. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

only about 80 before the bends, afterall its single track :) and plenty of tractors about.... the fast vids didnt really work to well..... Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > It least you don't deny you drive gpl in a unrealistic manner. If we all > used an actlabs shifter and had to heel & toe, whether you'd be any good > when compared to others is a matter of debate, not of fact as you seem > to think it is. > > BTW, how fast are you going (top speed) in that RL clip? > > gerry

On 17 Aug 2002 04:47:27 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I've studied replays. I've downloaded a TON. Braking 30 meters later results >in a crash. You're right - that doesn't take any effort at all...<g> I simply >cannot brake as late, carry as much speed, or get back on the gas as soon as >the fast guys. Sure you can. Stay partially on the gas when you brake - you can carry more speed into and through the turn, the car stays incredibly stable allowing you to trailbrake literally up to the throttle application point. elieve Steve Smith touched on this in another thread recently, comparing the driving style of the aliens to Ridge Racer, which is pretty spot on. If you take someone like Huttu and stick him in front of N2002 you'll quickly notice that while he's still a gifted driver (being the best of the aliens he should be) he's not nearly as dominant as he is in a sim where you can apply CART Flag-to-Flag style braking technique (gotta love that game for the DC, the key to cornering is to hold the throttle open and brake, pretty similar to doing fast laps in GPL). I'd bet that a non-alien like Achim could take him on the road courses. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

infact i might have to write article about this bullshit misconception that the slower you are the better you at racing then i can just point these pricks to a URL and save having to do this twice a week.... I dont know why i feel i have to defend those around me but, discrediting the list of names ive spent my entire GPL time with as a hotlapper and racer cause they have a good rank MAKES ME F***ING EVILLY MAD!!!!! GRRR John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> says... > > dont talk rubbish > > > > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more > > league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... > > > > im a racer idoit! > > > > Hot-lapper... > > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the >average man. I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....funny you never have these debates with my other *hotlappers* friends that hang out in that top25 screen at rank, as they know it to be true of them also...:) You only get the feelings of doubt with slower drivers mate and these drivers feel there doubts in others, as with the nasty flame war over hotlappers vs racers, you never get these within the clan and each :) David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> only about 80 before the bends, afterall its single track :) and plenty of > tractors about.... > > the fast vids didnt really work to well..... > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > It least you don't deny you drive gpl in a unrealistic manner. If we all > > used an actlabs shifter and had to heel & toe, whether you'd be any good > > when compared to others is a matter of debate, not of fact as you seem > > to think it is. > > > > BTW, how fast are you going (top speed) in that RL clip? > > > > gerry > >

huh? you heel and toe with the thottle and brake mate LOL>>>>doesnt bode well for the future if you dont know that.... the clutch was used with the left foot always, and the heel and toe is the brake and throttle....hense blipping the power with the heel or toe when using the heel or toe to brake.... you never need to use the clutch and another pedal with same foot..... you can heel and toe in ALL racing cars....its fundamental... jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, > >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the > >average man. > > I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and > clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper > actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake > were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the > driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

believe Steve Smith touched on this in another > thread recently, comparing the driving style of the aliens to Ridge > Racer, which is pretty spot on. You forget though that these guys have adapted and learned to drive GPL to its MAX they do the same in all sims, and when that requires realism they will be same.... Another example of a slowbie hoping on a factor that will slow these chaps down, just like the heel and toe thing and shifter, better actually which pedals you heel and toe with Jason :) > If you take someone like Huttu and stick him in front of N2002 you'll > quickly notice that while he's still a gifted driver > I'd bet that anon-alien like Achim could take him on the road Im sure this is pure dribble :)

David Powell wrote: > > only about 80 before the bends, afterall its single track :) and plenty of > tractors about.... Yeah, it looked like you were driving like a cunt. Take it to a track day before you kill someone.

Most GP cars had the steering column between the clutch and brake... Left foot braking if very much a late 80's and 90's thing as now they have dropped clutchs you dont need to every use your left foot on one.... In the 70's 60's 50's youd never left foot brake, or rarely and only if the pedal configuration was beneficial to it.... David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > huh? you heel and toe with the thottle and brake mate LOL>>>>doesnt bode > well for the future if you dont know that.... > > the clutch was used with the left foot always, and the heel and toe isthe

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> brake and throttle....hense blipping the power with the heel or toe when > using the heel or toe to brake.... > > you never need to use the clutch and another pedal with same foot..... > > you can heel and toe in ALL racing cars....its fundamental... > > > jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" > > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > > > >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be

clutch, > > >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster thanthe

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> > >average man. > > > > I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and > > clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper > > actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake > > were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the > > driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. > > > > Jason > > > > ----- > > GPLRank 24.50 > > N2002Rank -12.995 > >

jason moyer wrote:

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> > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, > >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the > >average man. > > I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and > clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper > actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake > were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the > driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe.

You've got all your wires (and feet) crossed there. Do a search on heel & toe, there are lots of sites which cover this technique. Gerry

If your bloody good at heel toe also you can blend the brake of into the turn using the ball of your foot while adding throttle with the heel of your foot, this basically makes left foot braking not needed..... only real benefits comes from left foot braking when youve no clutch at all.... I wonder when GP cars with hand brake and throttles, as your hands are about 6x faster to react than your feet, feet are honestly pretty shit in the reaction stakes...

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> driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

David Powell wrote: > > Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....f <SNIP> Yeah, like I know it to be so that you are only fast because you grind out lap after lap for hour after hour, days, months, years... totally unrealistic practice regime, imo. The huge speed difference between you elite guys in gpl and the ordinary ones, like me, just wouldn't exit in real life, imo. Being ultra fast in GPL is more about having a high boredom threshold than anything else, imo. There's a huge difference between a talented driver in real life and some bloke who plays a game in his bedroom for hours and hours, imo. Not that I care how you waste your life, or that you feel you need to crow about being fast at gpl to give your life meaning. The real tragedy is the loopholes in GPL that you lot exploit. I wouldn't call it cheating, just cheating yourself. JMHO Gerry

"David Powell" wrote: > I dont know why i feel i have to defend those around me but, discrediting > the list of names ive spent my entire GPL time with as a hotlapper and racer > cause they have a good rank MAKES ME F***ING EVILLY MAD!!!!! GRRR Well you did rather bring it on yourself by having a pop at Eldred by failing to understand why he couldn't go negative. I have no doubt you are a great racer and hotlapper. Buried deep below in this thread before it became a hotlapper vs racer slanging match I suggested this was due to ability rather then competitive spirit, determination and sheer effort which seemed to be the inference. The debate as to whether a great simmer relates to a great RL driver will go on no doubt! Yet as far as balls or bottle are concerned I doubt they are a factor in a gplrank rating. Tony

David Powell wrote:

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> > If your bloody good at heel toe also you can blend the brake of into the > turn using the ball of your foot while adding throttle with the heel of your > foot, this basically makes left foot braking not needed..... > > only real benefits comes from left foot braking when youve no clutch at > all.... > > I wonder when GP cars with hand brake and throttles, as your hands are about > 6x faster to react than your feet, feet are honestly pretty shit in the > reaction stakes...

Not 100% sure, but I think such thing are banned by FIA, along with joysticks and the driver laying on his back and looking at a screen. You'd be amazed at what technologies the teams have entertained!

I didnt have a pop... I just talked frankly....sorry if thats a problem for you.... As for reallife having met a number of the top20 guys.... Gabor Weber is certainly proving that the Top GPLers can also drive in RL... As a motoring jounrnalist in hungary he was invited to race in there nation touring championship, as a total novice I believe has finished his first race second and has been having great success, also been invited to drive an F1 car for an article as well as having been gifted an all expenses paid drive in there porsche cup series. Gabor was also very good in some karts we raced as that LAN events in holland. Gabor is an example of the type of person that plays GPL at the top level. Not all would be this way but i'd say he counts for the greater %. Then professional racers like Kevin Firlien also top20, US FA national champion etc. I do agree about the balls thing, but I would add that having the will to push yourself hard enough to get to these guys position in GPL is usually indicative of the fact they have *that* mindset.... Ive raced Mark Webber in Go-Karts and qualified only 0.4slower after a 20min session and finished a mear 10secs behind after 40laps....he wasnt hanging about and complemented me after... For my experience of a few of the top guys id say they make fine racing drivers...but I do agree that balls is a large factor, but thesedays not that much to honest, in the old days it was scary, but doing 130mph in modern racer or road car on the track really isnt that fearsome is it, doing 130mph in a 60's bake bean can full of fuel is a different story, but in todays motorsport its often the interlectual prost style driver that excels thesedays rather than the machotype that was needed when fear was the object to going fast, now the main object is fitness and application after having the talent in the first place.. David Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5lt79.1455$[email hidden]... > "David Powell" wrote: > > I dont know why i feel i have to defend those around me but,discrediting > > the list of names ive spent my entire GPL time with as a hotlapper andracer > > cause they have a good rank MAKES ME F***ING EVILLY MAD!!!!! GRRR > > Well you did rather bring it on yourself by having a pop at Eldred byfailing to > understand why he couldn't go negative. > > I have no doubt you are a great racer and hotlapper. Buried deep below inthis > thread before it became a hotlapper vs racer slanging match I suggestedthis was > due to ability rather then competitive spirit, determination and sheereffort > which seemed to be the inference. > > The debate as to whether a great simmer relates to a great RL driver willgo on > no doubt! Yet as far as balls or bottle are concerned I doubt they are afactor > in a gplrank rating. > > Tony > >

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:31:16 +0100, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >You've got all your wires (and feet) crossed there. Do a search on heel >& toe, there are lots of sites which cover this technique. Hm. I don't have a clutch pedal, but I always assumed that heel/toe was when you used your left foot on the clutch/brake and your right on the gas. I'll go read about it I guess. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:51:10 +0100, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >Not 100% sure, but I think such thing are banned by FIA, along with >joysticks and the driver laying on his back and looking at a screen. >You'd be amazed at what technologies the teams have entertained! Hm, I'll have to check the pdf I have with the official formula. I'm pretty sure hand-operated throttle/brake are legal, tho I'm not sure about joysticks (I'd imagine it depends on the electronics required to implement one). The reason AFAIK that hand-operated gas/brake aren't used in F1 cars is because it would severely limit the travel available. Hell, Schumacher stalled on the grid more than once in his career when he was young because he was having trouble with the short travel on the hand-operated clutch. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:08:54 GMT, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:31:16 +0100, Gerry Aitken ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>You've got all your wires (and feet) crossed there. Do a search on heel >>& toe, there are lots of sites which cover this technique. > >Hm. I don't have a clutch pedal, but I always assumed that heel/toe >was when you used your left foot on the clutch/brake and your right on >the gas. I'll go read about it I guess.

Alrighty I am now a virtual officiando of heel brake/technique thanks to the wonders of the world wide web. Thanks for cluing me on my cluelessness. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

LOL. I cannot ever make it through the lefthander before the hairpin at Rouen withouth pressing both pedals... I'm a 117 rank guy, so it's not an alien-hotlapping thing. Racing 1 clean lap for every 10'th is also a situation that I can relate to... It happens me all the time, especially when I race :-) /Carl "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:45:39 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: ><snip>

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> I dunno, my goals with any racing simulation are to have fun and to > experience what a real driver does to the extent that is possible in > front of a computer. I've never found hotlapping to be helpful with > either of those two goals. Racing 1 clean lap for every 10 in order > to find a limit just isn't appealing, and running setups that sit on > the bump stops for an entire lap while using the brake and gas > simultaneously in every corner doesn't help with the realism aspect. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

rubbish! most of the top GPLers were prolly negative within a few months, i was -50 when i came online after 6months of not huge ammounts of offline driving. As with everyone else at the top we are just faster naturally......I bet my first laps around a track in GPL were faster than 98% of everyone elses as with all the other top guys, the time scale argument old as it is gerry means little.. We were racing better than you and most GPLers in 99 and early 2000 when my laps would have been very low on the game.... As for millions of laps all ive driven in one year is about 10league races and 2x 2week hotlapping stints....I've only done 20laps in 2months lately.... I hardly drive GPL gerry...I have alot in the past when I was slow... It pisses people off on VROC that I never seem to drive yet i go like a rocket... Andreas Wilke and Cotchin will vouch for this :) I would carry on but i think i hurt your feelings last time :) Ill add my post about my RL experiences and those of top GPLers racing and well see how you react to a small numbers of those in the top20s experiences of chances given to them in RL. ""Gabor Weber is certainly proving that the Top GPLers can also drive in RL... As a motoring jounrnalist in hungary he was invited to race in there nation touring championship, as a total novice I believe has finished his first race second and has been having great success, also been invited to drive an F1 car for an article as well as having been gifted an all expenses paid drive in there porsche cup series. Gabor was also very good in some karts we raced as that LAN events in holland. Gabor is an example of the type of person that plays GPL at the top level. Not all would be this way but i'd say he counts for the greater %. Then professional racers like Kevin Firlien also top20, US FA national champion etc. I do agree about the balls thing, but I would add that having the will to push yourself hard enough to get to these guys position in GPL is usually indicative of the fact they have *that* mindset.... Ive raced Mark Webber in Go-Karts and qualified only 0.4slower after a 20min session and finished a mear 10secs behind after 40laps....he wasnt hanging about and complemented me after..."" Enough trying to put the fast drivers down here, and finding ways to make yourselves think there not gonna be better in RL, better in a RL sim, cause they are, there always gonna be better, learn quicker, be faster..... Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> David Powell wrote: > > > > Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....f > > <SNIP> > > Yeah, like I know it to be so that you are only fast because you grind > out lap after lap for hour after hour, days, months, years... totally > unrealistic practice regime, imo. The huge speed difference between you > elite guys in gpl and the ordinary ones, like me, just wouldn't exit in > real life, imo. Being ultra fast in GPL is more about having a high > boredom threshold than anything else, imo. > > There's a huge difference between a talented driver in real life and > some bloke who plays a game in his bedroom for hours and hours, imo. > > Not that I care how you waste your life, or that you feel you need to > crow about being fast at gpl to give your life meaning. > > The real tragedy is the loopholes in GPL that you lot exploit. I > wouldn't call it cheating, just cheating yourself. > > JMHO > > Gerry

they made a hand steering and throttle/brake device for schumacher in 99 after the leg break, in an attempt to get him racing, im sure if illegal ferrari wouldnt have bothered? im not sure on this... jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:51:10 +0100, Gerry Aitken > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Not 100% sure, but I think such thing are banned by FIA, along with > >joysticks and the driver laying on his back and looking at a screen. > >You'd be amazed at what technologies the teams have entertained! > > Hm, I'll have to check the pdf I have with the official formula. I'm > pretty sure hand-operated throttle/brake are legal, tho I'm not sure > about joysticks (I'd imagine it depends on the electronics required to > implement one). The reason AFAIK that hand-operated gas/brake aren't > used in F1 cars is because it would severely limit the travel > available. Hell, Schumacher stalled on the grid more than once in his > career when he was young because he was having trouble with the short > travel on the hand-operated clutch. > > Jason > > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

David Powell wrote: <SNIP> And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)

The reason AFAIK that hand-operated gas/brake aren't > > used in F1 cars is because it would severely limit the travel > > available. Doubt this, as theres only about 100degrees each way anyway, with paddles behind the wheel you just squeeze, works on the GP1 or TM1 PC wheel would be fine in a F1 car...its all electronic fly by wire anyway, so theres no cables/hydraulics! David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> they made a hand steering and throttle/brake device for schumacher in 99 > after the leg break, in an attempt to get him racing, im sure if illegal > ferrari wouldnt have bothered? im not sure on this... > > jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:51:10 +0100, Gerry Aitken > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Not 100% sure, but I think such thing are banned by FIA, along with > > >joysticks and the driver laying on his back and looking at a screen. > > >You'd be amazed at what technologies the teams have entertained! > > > > Hm, I'll have to check the pdf I have with the official formula. I'm > > pretty sure hand-operated throttle/brake are legal, tho I'm not sure > > about joysticks (I'd imagine it depends on the electronics required to > > implement one). The reason AFAIK that hand-operated gas/brake aren't > > used in F1 cars is because it would severely limit the travel > > available. Hell, Schumacher stalled on the grid more than once in his > > career when he was young because he was having trouble with the short > > travel on the hand-operated clutch. > > > > Jason > > > > > > ----- > > GPLRank 24.50 > > N2002Rank -12.995 > >

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > That's an interesting detail I wasn't aware off. > > I always thought that when the engine, the transmission, the differential > and the driven wheels are behind the driver, it's unlikely that a drive > shaft would pass in between the driver's feet or pedals? He means steering column. And I know you know he did. ;) Gerry

cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit as is....I use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....there the bloody cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :).... Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David Powell wrote: > > <SNIP> > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)

David Powell wrote: > > cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit as is....I > use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....there the > bloody cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :).... Well I refuse to drive in such a lame manner. But that's not to say I haven't tried this wank technique. I was loads faster with it of course, but I'll stick to actlabs shifter and heel & toe, thank_you_very_much.

the Cooper was probably the last of the Front engine cars......if talking to John Cooper it was probably mid 50's GP car...Even this i would think it unlikely that it was the propshaft....as the gearbox would be just starting down there and the shaft not starting will under the drivers seat..... It was probably a steering column....as i think abut 80% of GP cars had steering columns between clutch and brake.... Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ajlq2c$1c9ahr$[email hidden]...

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> That's an interesting detail I wasn't aware off. > > I always thought that when the engine, the transmission, the differential > and the driven wheels are behind the driver, it's unlikely that a drive > shaft would pass in between the driver's feet or pedals? > > Achim > > > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" > > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > > > >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be

clutch, > > >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster thanthe

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> > >average man. > > > > I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and > > clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper > > actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake > > were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the > > driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. > > > > Jason > > > > ----- > > GPLRank 24.50 > > N2002Rank -12.995 > >

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:34:11 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote: >That's an interesting detail I wasn't aware off. > >I always thought that when the engine, the transmission, the differential >and the driven wheels are behind the driver, it's unlikely that a drive >shaft would pass in between the driver's feet or pedals? Oof. I believe what I meant was "steering shaft". The interview with John Cooper where he mentions this is here: http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Thurston.html Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

"David Powell" wrote: > I just talked frankly....sorry if thats a problem for you.... I wasn't the one saying GRRR!! :-) > As for reallife having met a number of the top20 guys.... > > Gabor Weber is certainly proving that the Top GPLers can also drive in RL... I would expect enthusiasts of sim racing to be enthusiasts of RL racing too. I would also expect there to be examples of drivers good at both. Certainly GPL "feels" the closest to RL and there should be some degree of benefit between the two in terms of learning. I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do very well. Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens! Tony

Tony Rickard wrote: > I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do very well. > Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens! This is to be expected, just like youngsters are faster at learning a foreign language or musical instrument. Gerry

One could argue that exploiting the loopholes is a big part of motorsport or the so called "desire to succeed"....maximising everything available into helping one to win, adapting to even unrealistic techniques in order to be faster... that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver checklist.... kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major adjustment), Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons just like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology... One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and no throttle under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, or consistancy, if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53% bias setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be smooth into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPL had a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshift and be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is the same as GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot, you heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch..... Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real race car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who find it hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift is a totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching for the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver not doing this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all over the road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked like your road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need to keep reviing it and matching.... Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs autoclutch thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue that while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch would be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be fine as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! this is a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive never bothered to explain properly.... I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic.. Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the throttle under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as using 15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...I even had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I wasnt doing it. Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David Powell wrote: > > <SNIP> > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;)

my next post covers this perfectly... Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David Powell wrote: > > > > cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit asis....I > > use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....therethe > > bloody cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :).... > > Well I refuse to drive in such a lame manner. But that's not to say I > haven't tried this wank technique. I was loads faster with it of course, > but I'll stick to actlabs shifter and heel & toe, thank_you_very_much.

In article <ajle9i$hur$[email hidden]>, "Andrew" <[email hidden]> writes: >Rouen his time is horrendously bad compared to his driving elsewhere...2.02 >is shocking. > >Likewise 3.23 at Spa is poor.... I've run a 3:20 at Spa that's not shown on that list. But, I've never been able to get a handle on Rouen. I usually spell it "Ruin"...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: >I do agree about the balls thing, but I would add that having the will to >push yourself hard enough to get to these guys position in GPL is usually >indicative of the fact they have *that* mindset.... Why would you need balls to play a computer game? If you crash, BFD. You don't get hurt, you don't tear up a car that someone has to pay for. I'd think you can be MORE daring than in real life - here there's NO downside to a crash. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >See Eldred, that's the difference. You're "racing", and Dave is "hot- >lapping". I'm a 16 in GPLrank from simply racing. What does that mean? >Nothing. I go out to turn the best lap possible with my setups and I do >okay. Sometimes I win, many times I don't. As long as I'm there at the >end, I really don't care because I usually outlasted even some of the >faster cars. I still say that if someone can run 1:25 at a particular track on a caution-to-the-wind flyer, they shoule be ably to run 1:27's all day with no problem. If someone is 3-4 seconds faster, they should be able to win without even trying. I think there a reasons that some of the faster guys may drop out in races you've seen. 1, they're likely competing with guys just as fast as they are. We just happen to be on the same track. So the 2 or 3 fast guys may have an incident, or simply be screwing around with each other. 2, if there's only one fast guy in the field, and he's 4 seconds per lap faster than everyone else, where's the fun in that? He may quit out of sheer boredom. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

also GPL does an automatic blip on the throttle for you on downshifts, buts its a bit half hearted and needs to helped.... all this technique does as with its RL counterpart is stop transmission drag from the drive wheels on corner entry and braking....just as when entering in quick turn and downshifting in a road car ill make sure the revs are 300rpm higher than tha speed them will be when I reengaged the drive, this means theres no transition between drive and clutched and no unsettling.... now take the same bend allow the revs to drop 2000rpm lower than the drive rpm and youll spin of the road backwards....these two techniques are identical in GPL and RL only in GPL its easier to do as there a total lack of need for clutch and while the autoclutch is engaged you just rev its heart out and get the revs right.....thats half the reasonn aliens are so quick in GPL, it did take about a year for people to pickup up on this RL techniques and start using it to great effect in GPL...JonDavies is a classic example or rev matching gone mad...hes be smooth as silk in a race car.... David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > One could argue that exploiting the loopholes is a big part of motorsportor

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> the so called "desire to succeed"....maximising everything available into > helping one to win, adapting to even unrealistic techniques in order to be > faster... > > that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver > checklist.... > > kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major > adjustment), > Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons

just > like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology... > > One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and nothrottle > under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, orconsistancy, > if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53%bias > setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two > pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be smooth > into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right > foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPLhad > a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshiftand > be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is the sameas > GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot,you

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> heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch..... > > Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if > automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real race > car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your > heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who find it > hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift is a > totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its > autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching

for > the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver not doing > this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all overthe > road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked likeyour > road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need to keep > reviing it and matching.... > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLsautoclutch > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issuethat > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch would > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be fine > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! thisis > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ivenever

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> bothered to explain properly.... > > I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes > along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic.. > > Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the throttle > under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as

using > 15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...Ieven

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> had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I > wasnt doing it. > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David Powell wrote: > > > > <SNIP> > > > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;) > >

David Powell wrote: <SNIP>

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> Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs autoclutch > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue that > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch would > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be fine > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! this is > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive never > bothered to explain properly....

<SNIP> So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try again.

P.S later i might do some negative laps for in 5th gear ok? John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> says... > > dont talk rubbish > > > > ive completed 16 our of the 19 or so GP's in entered, finished far more > > league races without an off track than ive not finished in..... > > > > im a racer idoit! > > > > Hot-lapper... > > "...you can go negative by just driving around in 5th gear..." > > Talk about spewing rubbish, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever > seen (next to the crap we see out of Wilshe)... > > > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

there was some class footwork on display in the rally program Ch4 the other night....Marko Martin with a squential box and one foot on each pedal, using big heaps of each at the same time, maybe the technique doesnt suit GPL buts its used by everything that doesnt use a clutch pedal.... Thinking more, a compare a bike racer on a slipper clutch with a GPL driver....very similar inputs...infact GPLs limit in clutch operations is VERY much like a motorbike slipperclutch, and infact the two techniques are indentical... GPL clutch = slipperclutch style.... David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > also GPL does an automatic blip on the throttle for you on downshifts,buts > its a bit half hearted and needs to helped.... > > all this technique does as with its RL counterpart is stop transmissiondrag > from the drive wheels on corner entry and braking....just as when entering > in quick turn and downshifting in a road car ill make sure the revs are > 300rpm higher than tha speed them will be when I reengaged the drive, this > means theres no transition between drive and clutched and nounsettling....

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> > now take the same bend allow the revs to drop 2000rpm lower than the drive > rpm and youll spin of the road backwards....these two techniques are > identical in GPL and RL only in GPL its easier to do as there a total lack > of need for clutch and while the autoclutch is engaged you just rev its > heart out and get the revs right.....thats half the reasonn aliens are so > quick in GPL, it did take about a year for people to pickup up on this RL > techniques and start using it to great effect in GPL...JonDavies is a > classic example or rev matching gone mad...hes be smooth as silk in a race > car.... > > > David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > One could argue that exploiting the loopholes is a big part of

motorsport > or > > the so called "desire to succeed"....maximising everything availableinto > > helping one to win, adapting to even unrealistic techniques in order tobe

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> > faster... > > > > that could be put down as another essential item on the GPdriver > > checklist.... > > > > kinda like modern F1, TC, fly by wire throttle input(open to major > > adjustment), > > Paddle shift....two pedals....brakes you can expliot...lots of buttons > just > > like sim racing atm with the current limits in technology... > > > > One also forgets thats certain top20 members use single axis and no > throttle > > under brakes, I think personally its more a lazyness thing, or > consistancy, > > if you look carefully at a braking zone done on single axis with a 53% > bias > > setup (very realisitc) youll see a shorter braking zone than the two > > pedalled technique, but the two pedalled technique allow you to be

smooth > > into the turn as your keeping the revs of the engine up with your right > > foot. I dont really see why this is fundamentally a loophole, as if GPL > had > > a working clutch youd have disconnected drive for most of the downshift > and > > be revving the motor with the heel and toe down the box, this is thesame

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> as > > GPL only the clutch is automatic so you dont heel and toe with one foot, > you > > heel and toe with a foot on each and an auto clutch..... > > > > Your basically doing a realistic technique, but the clutch if > > automatic....the technique is proper as while downshifting in a real

race > > car, youd be jabbing the power just as we do in GPL only with your > > heel....those that dont use any power on braking are the ones who findit > > hard to adapt to Racing Legends etc as using both pedals on downshift isa > > totally realistic technique, it only looks unrealistic in GPL as its > > autoclutch, all the 15% throttle on braking does for me is rev matching > for > > the next gear so its smooth as silk into the corner, the driver notdoing > > this using one axis or a right foot brake and no power will be all over > the > > road, infact if you tried driving a real lotus 49 and just braked like > your > > road car, you woundnt even get the thing to change gear, youd need tokeep

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> > reviing it and matching.... > > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs > autoclutch > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issue > that > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch

would > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would befine > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!this

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> is > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive > never > > bothered to explain properly.... > > > > I could add in this case that maybe in a top notch Modern F1 title comes > > along, our technique/equipment will be totally realistic.. > > > > Even in F1 2002 I admit it took me about 50laps to drop using the

throttle

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> > under brakes like i do in GPL, i adapted to stopping in this title as > using > > 15% throttle under entry makes the zone longer by 15metres or more...I > even > > had to resort to making a 15% deadzone in my brake pedal to make sure I > > wasnt doing it. > > > > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > David Powell wrote: > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;) > > > > > >

I'd buy a racing techniques book and read it... There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to explain in laymens terms.... As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David Powell wrote: > <SNIP> > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLsautoclutch > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use is > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake issuethat > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutchwould > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would befine > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!!this is > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ivenever

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> > bothered to explain properly.... > > <SNIP> > > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try > again.

basically GPL has an lazy autoclutch, when you brake in GPL you downshift one after the other in the braking zone, this means GPL's autoclutch is disengaged for most of the braking zone just as it would be in RL, just short bursts of connection between the next rev/clutch in and downshift. This means that in GPL just as in RL the aim of the game is to rev the motor as much as possible while the clutch is disengaged, and keep the revs where they would be in the next gear down, in between the shifts in GPL I for one let off the power and let the car brake, I only use the power widly while the autoclutch in disengaged..... I were to use the power all the time, I rocket forward each time between shifts when the clutch was reengaged before the next shift :) This an entirely proper racing technique and exactly what your doing heel and toeing....we all have an autoclutch in GPL....and if you use a clutch for all but starts its pointless...and because the clutch is poinltess so is heel and toe in THIS game...as its faster to use both feet, if GPL had a clutch and required its use id use it.... Another fact is alot of racers wont even use a clutch in a crash box, this again means the two feet technique like a go-kart is the better.... you might not say that after right foot braker out qualled schumacher today again....mainly cause the ferrari is evilly good on the brakes with tremendous rear traction....in 2000/2001 this wasnt the case as the ferrari was a bit twitchy this suited the dual pedal schumacher more IMO as his ability to use both at once made the rear more stable, this year rubens has a car even his inferior technique can win the day over one lap..... David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I'd buy a racing techniques book and read it... > > There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to > explain in laymens terms.... > > As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs > clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David Powell wrote: > > <SNIP> > > > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs > autoclutch > > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we use

is > > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brakeissue

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> that > > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch > would > > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would be > fine > > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! > this is > > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that ive > never > > > bothered to explain properly.... > > > > <SNIP> > > > > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see you > > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try > > again. > >

I must add :) I first raced a guy called Allan Scott, this was a total eye opener, racing monza, id hear this car behind and it was scotty, revving the blox of it down the box using both feet....Almost scared you off the road ... At this point most were, but Allan unbknown to me was an ex GP bike racer....here we have the perfect example of how during early 2000 everyone seemed to adopt allans style, as a real racer Allan taught everyone something, at first it was like listening to something so new, he was doing something most were sure of, it was a big talking point at the time. But as an ex racer, allan had used the slipperclutch technique in GPL and it worked perfectly, from that day on everyone started doing it at monza, then it grew... Maybe this technique isnt relevant to the 60;s GP car, but its entirely revelant and used as a style...in more than just bikes.... Glad we had this technique debate I hadnt really made the connection between Scotty and the reving technique.... David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > basically GPL has an lazy autoclutch, when you brake in GPL you downshift > one after the other in the braking zone, this means GPL's autoclutch is > disengaged for most of the braking zone just as it would be in RL, just > short bursts of connection between the next rev/clutch in and downshift. > This means that in GPL just as in RL the aim of the game is to rev themotor > as much as possible while the clutch is disengaged, and keep the revswhere > they would be in the next gear down, in between the shifts in GPL I forone

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> let off the power and let the car brake, I only use the power widly while > the autoclutch in disengaged..... > > I were to use the power all the time, I rocket forward each time between > shifts when the clutch was reengaged before the next shift :) > > This an entirely proper racing technique and exactly what your doing heel > and toeing....we all have an autoclutch in GPL....and if you use a clutch > for all but starts its pointless...and because the clutch is poinltess so

is

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> heel and toe in THIS game...as its faster to use both feet, if GPL had a > clutch and required its use id use it.... > > Another fact is alot of racers wont even use a clutch in a crash box, this > again means the two feet technique like a go-kart is the better.... > > you might not say that after right foot braker out qualled schumacher

today > again....mainly cause the ferrari is evilly good on the brakes with > tremendous rear traction....in 2000/2001 this wasnt the case as theferrari > was a bit twitchy this suited the dual pedal schumacher more IMO as his > ability to use both at once made the rear more stable, this year rubenshas

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> a car even his inferior technique can win the day over one lap..... > > > > David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'd buy a racing techniques book and read it... > > > > There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to > > explain in laymens terms.... > > > > As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way GPLs > > clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch > > > > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > David Powell wrote: > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs > > autoclutch > > > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we

use

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> is > > > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake > issue > > that > > > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the clutch > > would > > > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would

be > > fine > > > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you go forward!! > > this is > > > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques thative > > never > > > > bothered to explain properly.... > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I seeyou > > > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try > > > again. > > > > > >

"Gerry Aitken" wrote: > > > I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do very well. > > Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens! > > This is to be expected, just like youngsters are faster at learning a > foreign language or musical instrument. Accepted, but it does rather rip apart some other theories in this thread of applying RL techniques built up on the track or road. Would we expect a 10 year old to read up on racing driving techniques or just dive in like Gran Turismo? Thats when are beloved realistic sim suddenly feels like a computer game to me at least. Tony

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > I've run a 3:20 at Spa that's not shown on that list. But, > I've never been able to get a handle on Rouen. I usually > spell it "Ruin"...<g> Don't sweat it Eldred (congrats on the Spa time, BTW... how's Stavelot nowadays? <g>), it's actually not *that* easy to go sub two minutes at Rouen. There's a lot of counter-intuitive stuff going on there (first corner is as example), I'll talk your through it when my case/driving load lets up. Jan. =---

That's an interesting detail I wasn't aware off. I always thought that when the engine, the transmission, the differential and the driven wheels are behind the driver, it's unlikely that a drive shaft would pass in between the driver's feet or pedals? Achim "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:26:01 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, > >normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the > >average man. > > I dunno how you'd heel and toe in a GPL era car since the brake and > clutch were separated by the driveshaft. I believe Harry Cooper > actually verified this in an interview somewhere...the gas and brake > were on the right side of the cockpit, the clutch on the left, and the > driveshaft meant that you couldn't left-foot brake or heel and toe. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

I know it was a stupid joke, but I just had to make it ;-) And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) Achim "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ajlq2c$1c9ahr$[email hidden]...

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> That's an interesting detail I wasn't aware off. > > I always thought that when the engine, the transmission, the differential > and the driven wheels are behind the driver, it's unlikely that a drive > shaft would pass in between the driver's feet or pedals? > > Achim

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote: >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) I wasn't kidding! A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen of your driving, I'd put my best on you. BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as the league admin. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:23:20 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: >You forget though that these guys have adapted and learned to drive GPL to >its MAX they do the same in all sims, and when that requires realism they >will be same.... No question. I'm not saying that the aliens aren't talented, I'm just noting that in order to achieve superhuman times in GPL you need to employ driving techniques that aren't suitable to real cars. If something like Racing Legends employs real wear and tear as the Westies have indicated, I'm sure the aliens will still be at the top of the lap time boards. In a full-length 2-hour race, I think you'd find the playing field a bit more even between the aliens and the guys who are fast without abusing their machinery. Obviously, we slowbies will be fighting mid-pack either way. >Another example of a slowbie Hey now, I've run exactly one season in one league in my entire life and I had the Championship practically clinched halfway through...I'm not the slowest guy out there. =p Unfortunately, while I don't fear anyone in a fixed setup oval race, I have issues finding those extra tenths of a second on roadies, and my setup skills are nonexistent in the Papy and ISI titles. Hell, I was just working on my Melbourne setup and ran 10 laps with the dampers at the highest settings and 10 laps with them at the lowest settings to see what sort of changes I'd notice in the suspension telemetry, and I'll be damned if I could find a difference in either the telemetry or in the way the car felt. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

jason moyer wrote:

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> > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) > > I wasn't kidding! > > A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen > of your driving, I'd put my best on you. > > BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new > job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout > of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as > the league admin.

Pffft, Achim can't even beat me, how on earth would catch Greger ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) > I wasn't kidding! > A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen > of your driving, I'd put my best on you. > BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new > job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout > of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as > the league admin.

Pffft, Achim can't even beat me, how on earth would catch Greger ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> > David Powell wrote: > > > > Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....f > > <SNIP> > > Yeah, like I know it to be so that you are only fast because you grind > out lap after lap for hour after hour, days, months, years... totally > unrealistic practice regime, imo. The huge speed difference between you > elite guys in gpl and the ordinary ones, like me, just wouldn't exit in > real life, imo. Being ultra fast in GPL is more about having a high > boredom threshold than anything else, imo. > > There's a huge difference between a talented driver in real life and > some bloke who plays a game in his bedroom for hours and hours, imo. > > Not that I care how you waste your life, or that you feel you need to > crow about being fast at gpl to give your life meaning. > > The real tragedy is the loopholes in GPL that you lot exploit. I > wouldn't call it cheating, just cheating yourself.

Ouch Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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> > Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....f > <SNIP> > Yeah, like I know it to be so that you are only fast because you grind > out lap after lap for hour after hour, days, months, years... totally > unrealistic practice regime, imo. The huge speed difference between you > elite guys in gpl and the ordinary ones, like me, just wouldn't exit in > real life, imo. Being ultra fast in GPL is more about having a high > boredom threshold than anything else, imo. > There's a huge difference between a talented driver in real life and > some bloke who plays a game in his bedroom for hours and hours, imo. > Not that I care how you waste your life, or that you feel you need to > crow about being fast at gpl to give your life meaning. > The real tragedy is the loopholes in GPL that you lot exploit. I > wouldn't call it cheating, just cheating yourself.

Ouch Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

denial can do nasty things to ones mind :) Goy Larsen <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:aRy79.6923$[email hidden]...

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> Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > > David Powell wrote: > > > > > > Its a matter of fact...."I" know it to be so....f > > > > <SNIP> > > > > Yeah, like I know it to be so that you are only fast because you grind > > out lap after lap for hour after hour, days, months, years... totally > > unrealistic practice regime, imo. The huge speed difference between you > > elite guys in gpl and the ordinary ones, like me, just wouldn't exit in > > real life, imo. Being ultra fast in GPL is more about having a high > > boredom threshold than anything else, imo. > > > > There's a huge difference between a talented driver in real life and > > some bloke who plays a game in his bedroom for hours and hours, imo. > > > > Not that I care how you waste your life, or that you feel you need to > > crow about being fast at gpl to give your life meaning. > > > > The real tragedy is the loopholes in GPL that you lot exploit. I > > wouldn't call it cheating, just cheating yourself. > > Ouch > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" wrote: > > > > > I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do very well. > > > Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens! > > > > This is to be expected, just like youngsters are faster at learning a > > foreign language or musical instrument. > > Accepted, but it does rather rip apart some other theories in this thread of > applying RL techniques built up on the track or road. Would we expect a 10 year > old to read up on racing driving techniques or just dive in like Gran Turismo? > > Thats when are beloved realistic sim suddenly feels like a computer game to me > at least.

Kids find the loopholes, that's true. If they had to use an actlabs shifter along with heel and toe then they'd be fucked.

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Of course I can't beat you - you're either not in the race or cause so many > yellows that I get so bored that I leave halfway through the race ;-) Touch� :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> Of course I can't beat you - you're either not in the race or cause so many > yellows that I get so bored that I leave halfway through the race ;-) Touch :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Do you feel frustrated by Kimi Raikkonens speed as well? Shure he's been driving a car for a while, but he hasn't raced "long enough", eh? ;-) /Carl "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O9u79.1520$[email hidden]...

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> > "David Powell" wrote: > > > I just talked frankly....sorry if thats a problem for you.... > > I wasn't the one saying GRRR!! :-) > > > As for reallife having met a number of the top20 guys.... > > > > Gabor Weber is certainly proving that the Top GPLers can also drive in

RL... > > I would expect enthusiasts of sim racing to be enthusiasts of RL racingtoo. I > would also expect there to be examples of drivers good at both. CertainlyGPL > "feels" the closest to RL and there should be some degree of benefitbetween the > two in terms of learning. > > I do get concerned though when non driving kids pick it up and do verywell. > Suddenly it feels more like a computer game when this happens! > > Tony > > >

"Carl Ribbegaardh" wrote... > Do you feel frustrated by Kimi Raikkonens speed as well? > Shure he's been driving a car for a while, but he hasn't > raced "long enough", eh? ;-) I don't know... what's his GPLRank? Jan. ;-)) =---

Szuba, that's it! So what's the scoop, is he a hotshoe or can I hustle him GPL style? =) Jason On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:34:35 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>We had two Eds in the league, Ed Eppel and Ed Szuba, both good men. >Unfortunately we haven't been in contact too much the last couple of months. > >If he said I'm the admin that must have been a while ago, though, as I've >retired as the admin early this year after about 4 years on the job? > >Achim > > > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) >> >> I wasn't kidding! >> >> A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen >> of your driving, I'd put my best on you. >> >> BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new >> job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout >> of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as >> the league admin. >> >> Jason >> >> ----- >> GPLRank 24.50 >> N2002Rank -12.995 > >

----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

We had two Eds in the league, Ed Eppel and Ed Szuba, both good men. Unfortunately we haven't been in contact too much the last couple of months. If he said I'm the admin that must have been a while ago, though, as I've retired as the admin early this year after about 4 years on the job? Achim "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) > > I wasn't kidding! > > A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen > of your driving, I'd put my best on you. > > BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new > job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout > of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as > the league admin. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

Of course I can't beat you - you're either not in the race or cause so many yellows that I get so bored that I leave halfway through the race ;-) Achim "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:4Oy79.6921$[email hidden]...

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> jason moyer wrote: > > > > On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) > > > > I wasn't kidding! > > > > A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen > > of your driving, I'd put my best on you. > > > > BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new > > job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout > > of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as > > the league admin. > > Pffft, Achim can't even beat me, how on earth would catch Greger ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

;-) Achim "Goy Larsen" <"adsales"@get topica.com> wrote in message news:qOA79.6968$[email hidden]... ... > Touch� :-)

"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > denial can do nasty things to ones mind :) > Isn't de Nile in Egypt? dave henrie

You've got to find that out for yourself ;-) But seriously, I wouldn't want to bluntly talk about or assess someone else's abilities publicly here in this forum. But I do think that Ed is a mature racer who knows what he's doing and who pays attention to what's going on around him on the track. He's someone you'd want to have in your league, IMO. Achim "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Szuba, that's it! > > So what's the scoop, is he a hotshoe or can I hustle him GPL style? =) > > Jason > > On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:34:35 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >We had two Eds in the league, Ed Eppel and Ed Szuba, both good men. > >Unfortunately we haven't been in contact too much the last couple of

months.

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> > > >If he said I'm the admin that must have been a while ago, though, as I've > >retired as the admin early this year after about 4 years on the job? > > > >Achim > > > > > > > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:47:24 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" > >> <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> >And thanks for thinking I could beat Greger on the road, Jason :-) > >> > >> I wasn't kidding! > >> > >> A 2-man race, 100%, full realism, random weather...from what I've seen > >> of your driving, I'd put my best on you. > >> > >> BTW, is there a guy named Ed in your GPL league? I just started a new > >> job and he saw my Gurney wallpaper and came over to show me a printout > >> of a Nurburgring race he won and then specifically mentioned you as > >> the league admin. > >> > >> Jason > >> > >> ----- > >> GPLRank 24.50 > >> N2002Rank -12.995 > > > > > > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > You've got to find that out for yourself ;-) > > But seriously, I wouldn't want to bluntly talk about or assess someone > else's abilities publicly here in this forum. But I do think that Ed is a > mature racer who knows what he's doing and who pays attention to what's > going on around him on the track. He's someone you'd want to have in your > league, IMO.

agreed

LOL "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UFB79.71069$[email hidden]...

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> "Carl Ribbegaardh" wrote... > > Do you feel frustrated by Kimi Raikkonens speed as well? > > Shure he's been driving a car for a while, but he hasn't > > raced "long enough", eh? ;-) > > I don't know... what's his GPLRank? > > Jan. ;-)) > =--- > >

Exactly what is that video trying to proove, and how are we going to see it? ;-) /Carl "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Im sure the more realistic things get ie heel and toe, double be clutch, > normal braking etc will only make the more talented even faster than the > average man. > > As its more difficult therefor those with the best natural ablilty will > further distend the gaps between them and the normal guys IMHO. > > I am fully able to do all those, along with clutchless changes up and down > the box by rev matching in any car I drive in RL...therefor i doubt doing > that in a sim with constant factoring will be any effort at all.... > > http://home.clara.net/pamelapowell/churchbends2.AVI here a bit of the > aformentioned in my road car :) > > > > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Eldred > > > > You could always drive the way Dave and his buddies do. They use strange > > setups and do odd things with the throttle while braking. I'm sure if > > Dave had to drive in a realistic manner you'd piss all over him. :) > > > > Gerry > >

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2ZkI6.2286%24si2. 4609130%40nnrp5.proxad.net&rnum=2 I've been told that brake+throttle is a valid technique. This is also confirmed by every go-cart owner you can find (but it burns the clutch). /Carl "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit as is....I > use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....therethe

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> bloody cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :).... > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David Powell wrote: > > > > <SNIP> > > > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;) > >

Interesting info, both the last 2 posts :-) /Carl "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I must add :) > > I first raced a guy called Allan Scott, this was a total eye opener,racing > monza, id hear this car behind and it was scotty, revving the blox of it > down the box using both feet....Almost scared you off the road ... At this > point most were, but Allan unbknown to me was an ex GP bike racer....herewe

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> have the perfect example of how during early 2000 everyone seemed to adopt > allans style, as a real racer Allan taught everyone something, at first it > was like listening to something so new, he was doing something most were > sure of, it was a big talking point at the time. But as an ex racer, allan > had used the slipperclutch technique in GPL and it worked perfectly, from > that day on everyone started doing it at monza, then it grew... > > Maybe this technique isnt relevant to the 60;s GP car, but its entirely > revelant and used as a style...in more than just bikes.... > > Glad we had this technique debate I hadnt really made the connection

between > Scotty and the reving technique.... > > > David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > basically GPL has an lazy autoclutch, when you brake in GPL youdownshift

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> > one after the other in the braking zone, this means GPL's autoclutch is > > disengaged for most of the braking zone just as it would be in RL, just > > short bursts of connection between the next rev/clutch in and downshift. > > This means that in GPL just as in RL the aim of the game is to rev the > motor > > as much as possible while the clutch is disengaged, and keep the revs > where > > they would be in the next gear down, in between the shifts in GPL I for > one > > let off the power and let the car brake, I only use the power widly

while > > the autoclutch in disengaged..... > > > > I were to use the power all the time, I rocket forward each time between > > shifts when the clutch was reengaged before the next shift :) > > > > This an entirely proper racing technique and exactly what your doingheel > > and toeing....we all have an autoclutch in GPL....and if you use aclutch > > for all but starts its pointless...and because the clutch is poinltessso > is > > heel and toe in THIS game...as its faster to use both feet, if GPL had a > > clutch and required its use id use it.... > > > > Another fact is alot of racers wont even use a clutch in a crash box,this

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> > again means the two feet technique like a go-kart is the better.... > > > > you might not say that after right foot braker out qualled schumacher > today > > again....mainly cause the ferrari is evilly good on the brakes with > > tremendous rear traction....in 2000/2001 this wasnt the case as the > ferrari > > was a bit twitchy this suited the dual pedal schumacher more IMO as his > > ability to use both at once made the rear more stable, this year rubens > has > > a car even his inferior technique can win the day over one lap..... > > > > > > > > David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I'd buy a racing techniques book and read it... > > > > > > There quite advanced styles and I cant be bothered writing an essay to > > > explain in laymens terms.... > > > > > > As i mention earlier, bike racing is a good comparision to the way

GPLs

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> > > clutch works and the style used on a slipslipper clutch > > > > > > > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > David Powell wrote: > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > Just as the techniques used in GPL by myself and others, its GPLs > > > autoclutch > > > > > thats makes GPL unrealistic in this respect, but the technique we > use > > is > > > > > spot on..which a clutch you seem to forget on the left foot brake > > issue > > > that > > > > > while were reving the motor to keep the downshifts clean, the

clutch > > > would > > > > > be in and the drive disconnected, this means that the brakes would > be > > > fine > > > > > as we dont rev while the autoclutch is connected as you goforward!!

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> > > this is > > > > > a such a common misconception on the alien braking techniques that > ive > > > never > > > > > bothered to explain properly.... > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > So common misconceptions aren't worth explaining properly? And I see > you > > > > haven't bothered to explain properly this time either. Do please try > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > >

> http://home.clara.net/pamelapowell/churchbends2.AVI here a bit of the > aformentioned in my road car :) Quite how you manage to claim such accuracy with your RPM matching with *that* rev counter defies belief <G> Do you book yourself out for transporting late brides?

indeed....ive never understood people moaning about the way in which people drive gpl....its a solid and faster technique than pointlessly trying to drive the sim in a way which the software doesnt even benefit, or indeed allow proper use of... Carl Ribbegaardh <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ajntev$1d0jhg$[email hidden]... >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2ZkI6.2286%24si2. > 4609130%40nnrp5.proxad.net&rnum=2 > > I've been told that brake+throttle is a valid technique. > This is also confirmed by every go-cart owner you can find (but it burnsthe

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> clutch). > > /Carl > > "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > cheat what? GPL is offered as is, hense its taken to the limit as

is....I

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> > use throttle with braking as I need to keep up with those ahead....there > the > > bloody cheats <G> Im just a sheep following :).... > > > > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > David Powell wrote: > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > And the loopholes? You cheat. ;) > > > > > >

LOL....on both accounts.... rev counter sucks I rely more on when the engine stops producing power its had enough revs :) Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X_L79.2811$[email hidden]... > > http://home.clara.net/pamelapowell/churchbends2.AVI here a bit of the > > aformentioned in my road car :) > > Quite how you manage to claim such accuracy with your RPM matching with*that* > rev counter defies belief <G> > > Do you book yourself out for transporting late brides? > >

Tony Rickard wrote: > > > http://home.clara.net/pamelapowell/churchbends2.AVI here a bit of the > > aformentioned in my road car :) > > Quite how you manage to claim such accuracy with your RPM matching with *that* > rev counter defies belief <G> Not really, it can all be done through feel after a bit of practice. Gerry

David Powell wrote: > > indeed....ive never understood people moaning about the way in which people > drive gpl....its a solid and faster technique than pointlessly trying to > drive the sim in a way which the software doesnt even benefit, or indeed > allow proper use of... And that means what exactly? You know full well that GPL because 1000x more engaging when you use a actlabs shifter along with heel & toe. Paddles are for pooftas, Dave. ;) Cheers Gerry

Wouldnt more engaging for me, as I get as engaged as possible anyway... If you give me a �150 to get a shifter for my hyperstim i'll use it hows that.... Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David Powell wrote: > > > > indeed....ive never understood people moaning about the way in whichpeople

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> > drive gpl....its a solid and faster technique than pointlessly trying to > > drive the sim in a way which the software doesnt even benefit, or indeed > > allow proper use of... > > And that means what exactly? You know full well that GPL because 1000x > more engaging when you use a actlabs shifter along with heel & toe. > > Paddles are for pooftas, Dave. ;) > > Cheers > > Gerry

David Powell wrote: > > Wouldnt more engaging for me, as I get as engaged as possible anyway... > > If you give me a £150 to get a shifter for my hyperstim i'll use it hows > that.... I'll think about it. Meanwhile I'll just look down my nose at your lame, unrealistic technique. Safe in the knowledge that I use the only true technique, sadly I shall just have to reflect on how much better gpl would be if everyone used it too. For it is *I* who should rule and not you! MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHMAHAHAHAAHAHAHMAHAHAHAHAMHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHMAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

dellusion is easily treatable ....:-O) ------------------------------------------- For it is *I* who should rule and not you! MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHMAHAHAHAAHAHAHMAHAHAHAHAMHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHMAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! !

In article <ajmip3$1bp3mk$[email hidden]>, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: >We had two Eds in the league, Ed Eppel and Ed Szuba, both good men. >Unfortunately we haven't been in contact too much the last couple of months. The Eppels are in one of my leagues. SERIOUS competition with those two...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> > Quite how you manage to claim such accuracy with your RPM matching with*that* > > rev counter defies belief <G> > > Not really, it can all be done through feel after a bit of practice. > > Gerry There was me thinking the <G> meant "Grin" rather then "Gerry take this comment seriously"...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > The times are so slow all you need to do to go negative is wander aroundthe > track in 5th gear.... <snippage> After reading this entire thread, I have to say to you "Shuuuut uuuup". -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > secondly its always some slow as fuck nonce that gets this pile shitdebate > going... Yep a "some slow as fuck". I'm sure we knew on the NROS who was the "some slow as fuck" between John Simmons and a person like you, who basically would get your arse totally kicked around on an oval track at any league with a lenghts of over 40%. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> secondly its always some slow as *** nonce that gets this pile shit debate > going... Yep a "some slow as ***". I'm sure we knew on the NROS who was the "some slow as ***" between John Simmons and a person like you, who basically would get your arse totally kicked around on an oval track at any league with a lenghts of over 40%. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > Ive raced Mark Webber in Go-Karts and qualified only 0.4slower after a20min > session and finished a mear 10secs behind after 40laps....he wasnt hanging > about and complemented me after... Gee with all that "showoffness" I could almost think this was a Tom Pabst message! Hehe. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I doubt that and you know it to be true... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qyV79.1292$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > secondly its always some slow as fuck nonce that gets this pile shit > debate > > going... > > > Yep a "some slow as fuck". I'm sure we knew on the NROS who was the "some > slow as fuck" between John Simmons and a person like you, who basically > would get your arse totally kicked around on an oval track at any league > with a lenghts of over 40%. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I doubt that and you know it to be true...

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> > secondly its always some slow as *** nonce that gets this pile shit > debate > > going... > Yep a "some slow as ***". I'm sure we knew on the NROS who was the "some > slow as ***" between John Simmons and a person like you, who basically > would get your arse totally kicked around on an oval track at any league > with a lenghts of over 40%. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

So what, it happened im using in a post which it relates to whats to the problem, if your jealous of the fact ive raced mark webber why dont you just keep your mouth closed? ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TzV79.1293$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > Ive raced Mark Webber in Go-Karts and qualified only 0.4slower after a > 20min > > session and finished a mear 10secs behind after 40laps....he wasnthanging

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> > about and complemented me after... > > > Gee with all that "showoffness" I could almost think this was a Tom Pabst > message! > > > > Hehe. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I did a 26.5 last night at zandy in lotus in 5th gear, I believe that makes me negative? spa would be no sweat to a 3:18 in 5th youd loose little time apart from La Source....monza youd get a 1:30.... monaco you wouldnt but 50% of tracks I believe this possible.... Shall I post some laps on my site for you? ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hvV79.1291$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > The times are so slow all you need to do to go negative is wander around > the > > track in 5th gear.... > > <snippage> > > After reading this entire thread, I have to say to you "Shuuuut uuuup". > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

"David Powell" wrote...

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> I did a 26.5 last night at zandy in lotus in 5th gear, > I believe that makes me negative? spa would be no sweat > to a 3:18 in 5th youd loose little time apart from La > Source....monza youd get a 1:30.... > > monaco you wouldnt but 50% of tracks I believe this > possible.... > > Shall I post some laps on my site for you?

Dave, do you realize of how little relevance the fact *you* can do this is to any of the slower drivers? I know, just go faster, right? Jan. =---

If youd read the thread properly youd actually see some reasonable talk about driving techniques here, but instead after our previous engagements your just come here to spit on what I say....Even though everything here is true... Id let your eyes do the reading, not your new found prejudicies.... Id expect one so keen to make assumptions of my own psychology in previous threads to be aware of the basic reaction your having to my posting here, and its relation to the position of stature you hold me in, or are you just better at summing up other peoples reasoning rather than being aware of your own and in this light your own being tanished and driven by your regard for me? :o) Bit childish dont you think.... Tell me you didnt just skim the surface of this thread pick on some bits that caught your eye and feel the need to make stupid and unreasoned replies, again as with before, you seem to feel you own this place and have a hold over etiquette here. Sadly for me you dont fit this bill as youve posted nothing here on this thread apart from a few pathetic little knife stabs from a previous disagreement, this makes you no better than next man.... Or an I being presumptious? <G>:P ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hvV79.1291$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > The times are so slow all you need to do to go negative is wander around > the > > track in 5th gear.... > > <snippage> > > After reading this entire thread, I have to say to you "Shuuuut uuuup". > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I couldnt careless that i can do this, i made a claim i could go negative in 5th gear, which i can.... Just seems ymenard thinks otherwise.....hes wrong.... Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PNX79.72581$[email hidden]...

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> "David Powell" wrote... > > I did a 26.5 last night at zandy in lotus in 5th gear, > > I believe that makes me negative? spa would be no sweat > > to a 3:18 in 5th youd loose little time apart from La > > Source....monza youd get a 1:30.... > > > > monaco you wouldnt but 50% of tracks I believe this > > possible.... > > > > Shall I post some laps on my site for you? > > Dave, do you realize of how little relevance the fact *you* can do this is > to any of the slower drivers? > > I know, just go faster, right? > > Jan. > =--- > >

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > I doubt that and you know it to be true... Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROS at a fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRW field. Oh boy it would be funny... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > So what, it happened im using in a post which it relates to whats to the > problem, if your jealous of the fact ive raced mark webber why dont youjust > keep your mouth closed? I'll keep my mouth open because you feel annoyed. Did I ever said that the clear majority, if not all of the people here dislike you? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote > Dave, do you realize of how little relevance the fact *you* can do this is > to any of the slower drivers? Yep, the guy cannot understand the situation of more how can I say, mortal drivers and the driving abilities they struggle against. He's stuck-up, as I would say. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > If youd read the thread properly youd actually see some reasonable talk > about driving techniques here, but instead after our previous engagements > your just come here to spit on what I say. Actually, I thought this thread was mostly rubbish, coming all from you mister. It was a thread which was useless, it brought nothing new except bragging and flaming. <snippage> Did I yawned? Ah yes I just did... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: >I did a 26.5 last night at zandy in lotus in 5th gear, I believe that makes >me negative? spa would be no sweat to a 3:18 in 5th youd loose little time >apart from La Source....monza youd get a 1:30.... Are you KIDDING me??? You drove the WHOLE track in only 5th gear? How? It seems like even if you could judge your speed with the engine lugging(I couldn't), it would take you a lot longer to get back up to speed again... >monaco you wouldnt but 50% of tracks I believe this possible.... > >Shall I post some laps on my site for you? I'd like to see the Zandy lap... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

just like its funny Andi and greger are top of ESCORS? ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ch_79.1425$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > I doubt that and you know it to be true... > > > Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROS ata > fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRWfield.

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> Oh boy it would be funny... > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I thought it brought a nice little arm flexing session between gerry and I, but being an uptight little french tart you can only see what you *wish*.... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bk_79.1428$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > If youd read the thread properly youd actually see some reasonable talk > > about driving techniques here, but instead after our previousengagements

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> > your just come here to spit on what I say. > > > Actually, I thought this thread was mostly rubbish, coming all from you > mister. It was a thread which was useless, it brought nothing new except > bragging and flaming. > > > <snippage> > > Did I yawned? Ah yes I just did... > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:15:33 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROS at a >fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRW field. >Oh boy it would be funny... If David would be up for a fixed setup short track or speedway race in N2002 I'd reinstall the sim just to see how I fare against him. =) Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On 19 Aug 2002 12:44:39 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I'd like to see the Zandy lap... Me too. That's nearly 2 seconds ahead of where I am in the Eagle... David, were you using the clutch to keep the revs high or just driving semi-normally? Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

No im just fast and speak my mind, to many fucking fickle yanks, and stupid little frech tarts around here who get offended when people speak frankly or in a self important manner... Im just not used to having to MASK what im actually saying to people, as those I normaly speak to are also frank talkers, both in sim racing/VROC and my RL friends and family, not stupid uptight little tosspots, therefor they dont require gentle spoon feeing like the babies here... But then calling you uptight and fickle is probably insulting to you, and saying "fucking fickle yanks" is gonna cause a right storm, but thats my take on it.....and guess what, im saying it....cause its true.... Go on moan and groan I dare you..... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ej_79.1427$[email hidden]... > >"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Dave, do you realize of how little relevance the fact *you* can do thisis > > to any of the slower drivers? > > Yep, the guy cannot understand the situation of more how can I say, mortal > drivers and the driving abilities they struggle against. He's stuck-up,as

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> I would say. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

fixed setup would play into the most talented hands, dont think youd be any close than you would be at a VROC pickup race.. jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:15:33 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROSat a > >fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRWfield.

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> >Oh boy it would be funny... > > If David would be up for a fixed setup short track or speedway race in > N2002 I'd reinstall the sim just to see how I fare against him. =) > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

I normally do 22.7 in this car, I lost 4secs I the first few turns and the rest of the lap didnt really lose anything, I used a shortened 5th *slighty* and yes slipped the clutch a few times out of the T3-4 As i said I just wandered around in 5th gear 4secs slower is the difference between a lame outlap and a fast lap.....the 5th gear lap was like my average lame outlap.... jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 19 Aug 2002 12:44:39 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > >I'd like to see the Zandy lap... > > Me too. That's nearly 2 seconds ahead of where I am in the Eagle... > > David, were you using the clutch to keep the revs high or just driving > semi-normally? > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

You havent grasped the concept of *barbs* yet? or exchanging *barbs* you seem to think is a flame war.....I am a master of *barbs* but it seems you need the right audience...Gerry is a good audience as he plays the game to the best of his ability.... Its a flame war with you Ynemard as your an uptight little french tosser, but with Gerry I'd consider it *barbs*....its like two stags in mating season, both fighting for honours over the argument at any cost....But in this modern world we get little chances to relieve our natural desires to test and challenge upspoken males that threaten our territory. Here is where *barbs* fit in....*barbing* or *locking horns* works best in a chat room, as there you can exchange *barbs* with your adversary without stupid little uptight french tossers thinking your having a flame war... *barbs* is an a american term for this I think, here I call it more textual/verbal swordmanship....puting people down and making fun of eachother is a big part of english social scene....just seems its taken as arrogance and up himselfness here...I beleive Gerry is English and I can usually lock my horns with him pretty hard :().... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bk_79.1428$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > If youd read the thread properly youd actually see some reasonable talk > > about driving techniques here, but instead after our previousengagements

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> > your just come here to spit on what I say. > > > Actually, I thought this thread was mostly rubbish, coming all from you > mister. It was a thread which was useless, it brought nothing new except > bragging and flaming. > > > <snippage> > > Did I yawned? Ah yes I just did... > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

maybe to gerry and I it brought a saturday afternoon of FUN rubbing each other up? have you considered this? maybe if asked us both youd know this isnt a flame war but a test of "size" <G> your sadly toooooooo uptight to no the difference David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> You havent grasped the concept of *barbs* yet? or exchanging *barbs* you > seem to think is a flame war.....I am a master of *barbs* but it seems you > need the right audience...Gerry is a good audience as he plays the game to > the best of his ability.... > > Its a flame war with you Ynemard as your an uptight little french tosser, > but with Gerry I'd consider it *barbs*....its like two stags in mating > season, both fighting for honours over the argument at any cost....But in > this modern world we get little chances to relieve our natural desires to > test and challenge upspoken males that threaten our territory. > > Here is where *barbs* fit in....*barbing* or *locking horns* works best in

a

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> chat room, as there you can exchange *barbs* with your adversary without > stupid little uptight french tossers thinking your having a flame war... > > *barbs* is an a american term for this I think, here I call it more > textual/verbal swordmanship....puting people down and making fun of > eachother is a big part of english social scene....just seems its taken as > arrogance and up himselfness here...I beleive Gerry is English and I can > usually lock my horns with him pretty hard :().... > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Bk_79.1428$[email hidden]... > > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > > If youd read the thread properly youd actually see some reasonable

talk

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> > > about driving techniques here, but instead after our previous > engagements > > > your just come here to spit on what I say. > > > > > > Actually, I thought this thread was mostly rubbish, coming all from you > > mister. It was a thread which was useless, it brought nothing new

except

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> > bragging and flaming. > > > > > > <snippage> > > > > Did I yawned? Ah yes I just did... > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

I dont own N2002 sorry, I got N4 and enjoyed Watkins and Sears alot....I beleive getting a time 0.3 of the WR at the Glen and my ovals times at ones i tried werent far of Kasai-Royals WR for just about everytrack, but I only played it for 3weeks I think... Unlike like some of my GPL commerades Andi Wilke, Greger Huttu, Rick Osborn who ive raced and beaten or been beaten by a number of times its not my cup'o'tea. P.S isnt ESCORS the top or fastest nascar league? if so seems from these guys performance and TOTAL dominance of the nascar leagues they run in, as my counterparts in GPL for a longtime, Id expect to slot right in with them after a bit'o'praccy. Afterall there really aint much to learn on an oval!...the road courses in the big tanks are quite challenging though... I liked the wild physics of N4....kept you on your toes....ive heard N2002 is a bit easier in comparision.... Not to sounds arrogant....but Im british and Im a road racer....I find ovals even with close racing as boring as watching paint dry.... I get as much fun from racng the track and my own abilities as with racing in leagues etc....just happens 4 nearely indentical corners and little braking means little interest.... jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:15:33 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROSat a > >fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRWfield.

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> >Oh boy it would be funny... > > If David would be up for a fixed setup short track or speedway race in > N2002 I'd reinstall the sim just to see how I fare against him. =) > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

David ,your arguments would 'look' better if you could just run them through the spellchecker...;) Andy

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes:

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>I normally do 22.7 in this car, I lost 4secs I the first few turns and the >rest of the lap didnt really lose anything, I used a shortened 5th *slighty* >and yes slipped the clutch a few times out of the T3-4 > >As i said I just wandered around in 5th gear > >4secs slower is the difference between a lame outlap and a fast lap.....the >5th gear lap was like my average lame outlap....

Great - your 'lame outlap' is faster than my PB(1:26.69)... :-( Where the fuck can I find FOUR seconds??? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David Powell wrote: > > maybe to gerry and I it brought a saturday afternoon of FUN rubbing each > other up? What sounds really gay. Dave is a gay, dave is a gay, dave is a gay... Gerry

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote <snip> I love the fact that you seem to be unable to stop for once and breathe some air, that after you post you again post another time and sometimes 3 times in reply to somebody since you've "appeared" as a troll in this newsgroup. It's almost like some little child that cannot stop pissing off the others. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote > David ,your arguments would 'look' better if you could just run themthrough > the spellchecker...;) Or in a coherent structure that doesn't span over multiple posts and bizarre organisation of paragraphs that start and end without notice. But it's okay, that guy is obviously a poseur troll. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Yeah I would have loved to see you try to battle against us on the NROSat a > >fixed-setup Talladega qualification, or a Texas race with the top VRWfield. > >Oh boy it would be funny... > > If David would be up for a fixed setup short track or speedway race in > N2002 I'd reinstall the sim just to see how I fare against him. =) Do you understand the words that are coming out of my posts? I'm talking about the top stuff for NR2002, not pickup racing. You would get your arse so much whooped in the top VRW league, it would be hilarious. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote <snippage> Errr sorry Jason I replied to you incorrectly, It was replying to the first post by Jason in reply to yours. Wrong button, my mistake. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > I dont own N2002 sorry wuss. > I got N4 and enjoyed Watkins and Sears alot....I > beleive getting a time 0.3 of the WR at the Glen and my ovals times atones > i tried werent far of Kasai-Royals WR for just about everytrack, but Ionly > played it for 3weeks I think... Yep exactly what I thought. You are strickly a "hot shot hotlapper". I would love to see you in any 40%+ race with all the strategy, pitstops, tyre wear and the handling of other human beings in an environment much more complex then strickly "go fast as you can" GPL. > P.S isnt ESCORS the top or fastest nascar league? Hmm, VRW is at the top, everybody knows that. The guys there are mostly from Hawaii or the NROS back then. But this ain't a competition, ESCORS has some quality drivers. But you're talking about a completely different community here where you know jack shite, and nobody knows you or your "fantasy" egoistical nature. > Id expect to slot right in with them > after a bit'o'praccy. Bwahahahaha. > Afterall there really aint much to learn on an oval!.. Bwahahahaha you have much to learn my young and naive apprentice... > Not to sounds arrogant....but Im british and Im a road racer....I findovals > even with close racing as boring as watching paint dry.... Yep, not only egoistical but bigot, xenophobe and an incredible stupid wanker! > I get as much fun from racng the track and my own abilities as with racing > in leagues etc....just happens 4 nearely indentical corners and little > braking means little interest.... You would still get your arse totally whooped by a fair margin. You would stand no chance at all. It would perhaps bring you down to earth, I've seen that your high in the sky with your dillusions of superiority in racing simulations.

>"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > No im just fast and speak my mind, to many fucking fickle yanks Yep not only a bigot but a xenophobe. > and stupid little frech tarts Again... as above. > around here who get offended when people speak frankly or > in a self important manner... I just said that everybody here dislikes you. > Go on moan and groan I dare you..... I do this for my own pleasure, to see you grab the bait time after time after time... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> No im just fast and speak my mind, to many ***ing fickle yanks Yep not only a bigot but a xenophobe. Again... as above. I just said that everybody here dislikes you. > Go on moan and groan I dare you..... I do this for my own pleasure, to see you grab the bait time after time after time... -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

David Powell <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> No im just fast and speak my mind, to many fucking fickle yanks, and stupid > little frech tarts around here who get offended when people speak frankly or > in a self important manner... > > Im just not used to having to MASK what im actually saying to people, as > those I normaly speak to are also frank talkers, both in sim racing/VROC and > my RL friends and family, not stupid uptight little tosspots, therefor they > dont require gentle spoon feeing like the babies here... > > But then calling you uptight and fickle is probably insulting to you, and > saying "fucking fickle yanks" is gonna cause a right storm, but thats my > take on it.....and guess what, im saying it....cause its true.... > > Go on moan and groan I dare you..... >

You must live in a *very* protected environment. -Red

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> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ej_79.1427$[email hidden]... > > >"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Dave, do you realize of how little relevance the fact *you* can do this > is > > > to any of the slower drivers? > > > > Yep, the guy cannot understand the situation of more how can I say, mortal > > drivers and the driving abilities they struggle against. He's stuck-up, > as > > I would say. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> writes: > > >I normally do 22.7 in this car, I lost 4secs I the first few turns andthe > >rest of the lap didnt really lose anything, I used a shortened 5th*slighty* > >and yes slipped the clutch a few times out of the T3-4 > > > >As i said I just wandered around in 5th gear > > > >4secs slower is the difference between a lame outlap and a fastlap.....the > >5th gear lap was like my average lame outlap.... > > Great - your 'lame outlap' is faster than my PB(1:26.69)... :-( > Where the fuck can I find FOUR seconds??? Let it go, Eldred. The guy's a braggart. Woopee, he's better at GPL than us! BFD. He's also better at arrogance.

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:36:06 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: >fixed setup would play into the most talented hands, dont think youd be any >close than you would be at a VROC pickup race.. Seeing that you don't have n2002, this particular branch of the thread is going to go nowhere. While I'm not an amazing sim racer, I fear no one in a long fixed-setup race on an oval with a large field. This isn't due to some sort of bragging on my part, but simply to the nature of oval racing. If you stick 10 people of varying skill in a fixed-setup oval league and let them run 10 races at 50% length against each other, it would not be surprising if you had 10 different winners. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:58:43 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote > ><snippage> > >Errr sorry Jason I replied to you incorrectly, It was replying to the first >post by Jason in reply to yours. Wrong button, my mistake. I've got my copy of n2002 in a holster by my side anytime you want a go, Frank. =) I'm assuming you'll be driving the peach "blue oyster" car? Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

>"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > I've got my copy of n2002 in a holster by my side anytime you want a > go, Frank. =) <silent look into Jason's eyes, from 50 meters away> > I'm assuming you'll be driving the peach "blue oyster" car? Actually, it's more "light salmon". Tehehe. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Hotlapper? you seem to forget i do both..... Again, I must add ive probably raced more Full GP's race and finished than you have, plus I race 40% race all the time, and they are little strain on me... Again you have idea of the level I race yet yet continued to delude yourself by thinking I wouldnt be wouldnt in the top sub 1%.. Lol your so funny man.... And its funny as you dont even release im a success Full Length GP race as well as a successful hotlapper.... you are sooooooooooo full of shit man :) come to VROC and ask about my racing abilities you stupid deluded french twat... "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<zx989.1758$[email hidden]>...

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> >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > I dont own N2002 sorry > > wuss. > > > I got N4 and enjoyed Watkins and Sears alot....I > > beleive getting a time 0.3 of the WR at the Glen and my ovals times at > ones > > i tried werent far of Kasai-Royals WR for just about everytrack, but I > only > > played it for 3weeks I think... > > Yep exactly what I thought. You are strickly a "hot shot hotlapper". I > would love to see you in any 40%+ race with all the strategy, pitstops, tyre > wear and the handling of other human beings in an environment much more > complex then strickly "go fast as you can" GPL. > > > > > P.S isnt ESCORS the top or fastest nascar league? > > Hmm, VRW is at the top, everybody knows that. The guys there are mostly > from Hawaii or the NROS back then. But this ain't a competition, ESCORS has > some quality drivers. But you're talking about a completely different > community here where you know jack shite, and nobody knows you or your > "fantasy" egoistical nature. > > > > > Id expect to slot right in with them > > after a bit'o'praccy. > > Bwahahahaha. > > > Afterall there really aint much to learn on an oval!.. > > Bwahahahaha you have much to learn my young and naive apprentice... > > > > > Not to sounds arrogant....but Im british and Im a road racer....I find > ovals > > even with close racing as boring as watching paint dry.... > > Yep, not only egoistical but bigot, xenophobe and an incredible stupid > wanker! > > > > > I get as much fun from racng the track and my own abilities as with racing > > in leagues etc....just happens 4 nearely indentical corners and little > > braking means little interest.... > > You would still get your arse totally whooped by a fair margin. You would > stand no chance at all. It would perhaps bring you down to earth, I've seen > that your high in the sky with your dillusions of superiority in racing > simulations.

http://home.clara.net/snx843/results.zip check this out YOU DUMB IDOIT.... I can lap fast all race, finish GP's, and races of any length without problem and lap more consistancy than any of the dicks you quote as able all day long... Really atleast think about your arguments before looking like a compete dick... The Mog2_monza laps are I believe you will agree a masterful display of driving absolutely on the limit only 0.8ish from WR laps all race....the two slow ares pitstops you prick, so im sure you will see i can do those also.... you are totally deluded my friend :) as for racing other humans I can race cleany all week long at record speeds....just like those I race with.... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zx989.1758$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > I dont own N2002 sorry > > wuss. > > > I got N4 and enjoyed Watkins and Sears alot....I > > beleive getting a time 0.3 of the WR at the Glen and my ovals times at > ones > > i tried werent far of Kasai-Royals WR for just about everytrack, but I > only > > played it for 3weeks I think... > > Yep exactly what I thought. You are strickly a "hot shot hotlapper". I > would love to see you in any 40%+ race with all the strategy, pitstops,

tyre

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> wear and the handling of other human beings in an environment much more > complex then strickly "go fast as you can" GPL. > > > > > P.S isnt ESCORS the top or fastest nascar league? > > Hmm, VRW is at the top, everybody knows that. The guys there are mostly > from Hawaii or the NROS back then. But this ain't a competition, ESCORS

has

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> some quality drivers. But you're talking about a completely different > community here where you know jack shite, and nobody knows you or your > "fantasy" egoistical nature. > > > > > Id expect to slot right in with them > > after a bit'o'praccy. > > Bwahahahaha. > > > Afterall there really aint much to learn on an oval!.. > > Bwahahahaha you have much to learn my young and naive apprentice... > > > > > Not to sounds arrogant....but Im british and Im a road racer....I find > ovals > > even with close racing as boring as watching paint dry.... > > Yep, not only egoistical but bigot, xenophobe and an incredible stupid > wanker! > > > > > I get as much fun from racng the track and my own abilities as with

racing > > in leagues etc....just happens 4 nearely indentical corners and little > > braking means little interest.... > > You would still get your arse totally whooped by a fair margin. You would > stand no chance at all. It would perhaps bring you down to earth, I'veseen

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> that your high in the sky with your dillusions of superiority in racing > simulations. > > > > > > > > >

id expect a list the same as usual.....fastest and most talented at the top winning, slowest at the bottom.... this argument as a way of thinking youd beat anyone quick is total bolox :) jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:36:06 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >fixed setup would play into the most talented hands, dont think youd beany

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> >close than you would be at a VROC pickup race.. > > Seeing that you don't have n2002, this particular branch of the thread > is going to go nowhere. While I'm not an amazing sim racer, I fear no > one in a long fixed-setup race on an oval with a large field. This > isn't due to some sort of bragging on my part, but simply to the > nature of oval racing. If you stick 10 people of varying skill in a > fixed-setup oval league and let them run 10 races at 50% length > against each other, it would not be surprising if you had 10 different > winners. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

looking back at the files.....some of my race lap consistancies are quite amazing :) and over 2hrs as well..... damn im great David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://home.clara.net/snx843/results.zip check this out YOU DUMB IDOIT.... > > I can lap fast all race, finish GP's, and races of any length without > problem and lap more consistancy than any of the dicks you quote as ableall

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> day long... > > Really atleast think about your arguments before looking like a compete > dick... > > The Mog2_monza laps are I believe you will agree a masterful display of > driving absolutely on the limit only 0.8ish from WR laps all race....the

two

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> slow ares pitstops you prick, so im sure you will see i can do those > also.... > > you are totally deluded my friend :) as for racing other humans I can race > cleany all week long at record speeds....just like those I race with.... > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zx989.1758$[email hidden]... > > >"David Powell" <davidpowell@(nospamman)clara.co.uk> wrote > > > I dont own N2002 sorry > > > > wuss. > > > > > I got N4 and enjoyed Watkins and Sears alot....I > > > beleive getting a time 0.3 of the WR at the Glen and my ovals times at > > ones > > > i tried werent far of Kasai-Royals WR for just about everytrack, but I > > only > > > played it for 3weeks I think... > > > > Yep exactly what I thought. You are strickly a "hot shot hotlapper". I > > would love to see you in any 40%+ race with all the strategy, pitstops, > tyre > > wear and the handling of other human beings in an environment much more > > complex then strickly "go fast as you can" GPL. > > > > > > > > > P.S isnt ESCORS the top or fastest nascar league? > > > > Hmm, VRW is at the top, everybody knows that. The guys there are mostly > > from Hawaii or the NROS back then. But this ain't a competition, ESCORS > has > > some quality drivers. But you're talking about a completely different > > community here where you know jack shite, and nobody knows you or your > > "fantasy" egoistical nature. > > > > > > > > > Id expect to slot right in with them > > > after a bit'o'praccy. > > > > Bwahahahaha. > > > > > Afterall there really aint much to learn on an oval!.. > > > > Bwahahahaha you have much to learn my young and naive apprentice... > > > > > > > > > Not to sounds arrogant....but Im british and Im a road racer....I find > > ovals > > > even with close racing as boring as watching paint dry.... > > > > Yep, not only egoistical but bigot, xenophobe and an incredible stupid > > wanker! > > > > > > > > > I get as much fun from racng the track and my own abilities as with > racing > > > in leagues etc....just happens 4 nearely indentical corners and little > > > braking means little interest.... > > > > You would still get your arse totally whooped by a fair margin. You

would

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> > stand no chance at all. It would perhaps bring you down to earth, I've > seen > > that your high in the sky with your dillusions of superiority in racing > > simulations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

You are replying to your own posts again schizo <G> At least your other personalities worship you... "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> looking back at the files.....some of my race lap consistancies are quite > amazing :) and over 2hrs as well..... > > damn im great > > David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > http://home.clara.net/snx843/results.zip check this out YOU DUMB IDOIT.... > > > > I can lap fast all race, finish GP's, and races of any length without > > problem and lap more consistancy than any of the dicks you quote as able

<snip>

>"Jo Sholles" <[email hidden]> wrote... <snip> Who are yoU???

>"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote > You are replying to your own posts again schizo <G> Yeah he's the only person I've seen doing this regularly over the past years here in r.a.s. and various other NG's. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > id expect a list the same as usual.....fastest and most talented at thetop > winning, slowest at the bottom.... > > this argument as a way of thinking youd beat anyone quick is total bolox:) Again, it shows that you really don't jack shit about NASCAR racing in general, and the tactics that enter in it's game. You would get your arse whooped there, like totally! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:34:01 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: >id expect a list the same as usual.....fastest and most talented at the top >winning, slowest at the bottom.... > >this argument as a way of thinking youd beat anyone quick is total bolox :) You've clearly never played n4 or n2002 then... Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

i know good drivers win thats enough! :) ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MHz89.18710$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > id expect a list the same as usual.....fastest and most talented at the > top > > winning, slowest at the bottom.... > > > > this argument as a way of thinking youd beat anyone quick is total bolox > :) > > > Again, it shows that you really don't jack shit about NASCAR racing in > general, and the tactics that enter in it's game. You would get your arse > whooped there, like totally! > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

is that best you can come up with....nice to you in VROC today, shame you dont say anything jason moyer <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:34:01 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >id expect a list the same as usual.....fastest and most talented at thetop > >winning, slowest at the bottom.... > > > >this argument as a way of thinking youd beat anyone quick is total bolox:)

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> > You've clearly never played n4 or n2002 then... > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:50:29 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: >is that best you can come up with.... Yes. Seriously, the difference between a fast driver and a slow driver in N2002 is less than half a second per lap. The difference between new tires and worn tires is about 2 seconds per lap. A slow driver who takes care of their equipment can very easily beat a fast driver who is pushing their car to the limit for an entire race. I've seen this happen constantly, both to my benefit and to my loss. Oval racing with realistic tire wear is 80% strategy, 20% driver skill. >nice to you in VROC today, shame you >dont say anything Sorry, working nights here so I've been idle all day. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't just hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position of others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Not that there's anything wrong with GPL <G> ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race in online leagues there). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Oval racing is about 90% setup, not driver skill. Road racing is driver skill. I don't care how good you are at "taking care of equipment", if your setup sucks in a TOP LEVEL race, you will get your lunch handed to you. N2002 requires more knowledge of setup building than GPL by a large margin. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:50:29 +0100, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: > > >is that best you can come up with.... > > Yes. > > Seriously, the difference between a fast driver and a slow driver in > N2002 is less than half a second per lap. The difference between new > tires and worn tires is about 2 seconds per lap. A slow driver who > takes care of their equipment can very easily beat a fast driver who > is pushing their car to the limit for an entire race. I've seen this > happen constantly, both to my benefit and to my loss. Oval racing > with realistic tire wear is 80% strategy, 20% driver skill. > > >nice to you in VROC today, shame you > >dont say anything > > Sorry, working nights here so I've been idle all day. > > Jason > > ----- > GPLRank 24.50 > N2002Rank -12.995

No question. I was assuming IROC-style equal setups, but yeah, in an open setup series you need to build a great car or you'll be handed your lunch. Jason On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:32:26 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Oval racing is about 90% setup, not driver skill. Road racing is driver >skill. I don't care how good you are at "taking care of equipment", if your >setup sucks in a TOP LEVEL race, you will get your lunch handed to you. > >N2002 requires more knowledge of setup building than GPL by a large margin. > > > >"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:50:29 +0100, "David Powell" >> <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >is that best you can come up with.... >> >> Yes. >> >> Seriously, the difference between a fast driver and a slow driver in >> N2002 is less than half a second per lap. The difference between new >> tires and worn tires is about 2 seconds per lap. A slow driver who >> takes care of their equipment can very easily beat a fast driver who >> is pushing their car to the limit for an entire race. I've seen this >> happen constantly, both to my benefit and to my loss. Oval racing >> with realistic tire wear is 80% strategy, 20% driver skill. >> >> >nice to you in VROC today, shame you >> >dont say anything >> >> Sorry, working nights here so I've been idle all day. >> >> Jason >> >> ----- >> GPLRank 24.50 >> N2002Rank -12.995 > >

----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

stupid fool....your talking crap... your such an annoying little bastard :) you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre last... every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel management... do you believe what you type? ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w0B89.18786$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't just > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position of > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Not that > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race in online > leagues there). > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

agreed about the setup...but driver skill still makes the rest of the difference.... Bill Bollinger <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Oval racing is about 90% setup, not driver skill. Road racing is driver > skill. I don't care how good you are at "taking care of equipment", ifyour > setup sucks in a TOP LEVEL race, you will get your lunch handed to you. > > N2002 requires more knowledge of setup building than GPL by a largemargin.

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> > > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:50:29 +0100, "David Powell" > > <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: > > > > >is that best you can come up with.... > > > > Yes. > > > > Seriously, the difference between a fast driver and a slow driver in > > N2002 is less than half a second per lap. The difference between new > > tires and worn tires is about 2 seconds per lap. A slow driver who > > takes care of their equipment can very easily beat a fast driver who > > is pushing their car to the limit for an entire race. I've seen this > > happen constantly, both to my benefit and to my loss. Oval racing > > with realistic tire wear is 80% strategy, 20% driver skill. > > > > >nice to you in VROC today, shame you > > >dont say anything > > > > Sorry, working nights here so I've been idle all day. > > > > Jason > > > > ----- > > GPLRank 24.50 > > N2002Rank -12.995 > >

did my racelaps not bend your pespective of me being a hotlapper? or do I just hotlap for 90laps of zandvoort for 2hrs while there are 20other people on the track with me....????????????? If you believe this is true, you must also believe all GPL players at every level are just hotlapper that do full gp races??????????????? I get it......im fast so im a hotlapper????????? even though I finish races and look after my tyres?????????? the same tyres that last 4laps till there over the peak zone in qually????????? the same tyres that I can keep in this zone for 2hrs??????????or are you not aware that if you drive at the pace some GPLers do the tyres have gone to ice in 4laps??????? are you not aware all these same driver make those tyres last a whole race bringing them in and out of the sweet spot?????????? waiting if there too hot behind the guy infront for them to cool so he has more grip to make a pass/attack????????????????or a full GP in ferrari where you havent got enough juice to finish the race so need to make gearing and gear usage adjustments????????? man this list could go on for ever... man your so off the trial in your deluded belief its untrue......! David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> stupid fool....your talking crap... > > your such an annoying little bastard :) > > you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre > last... > > every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > management... > > do you believe what you type? > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:w0B89.18786$[email hidden]... > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't

just

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> > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position of > > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Not that > > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race in online > > leagues there). > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

to quote a line from the great Allan Scott tonite "<Al_Scott> me and Barty had a blast :-) that Barty Mee is a fast clean driver" surely hes a dirty mean hotlapper in your eyes ynemard? just like me, only faster so even more shit in races?????? David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> stupid fool....your talking crap... > > your such an annoying little bastard :) > > you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre > last... > > every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > management... > > do you believe what you type? > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:w0B89.18786$[email hidden]... > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't

just

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> > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position of > > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Not that > > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race in online > > leagues there). > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

this has to go on the site im afraid....it will go in comedy section, as my readers will love this.....! its truely classic.... David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> to quote a line from the great Allan Scott tonite "<Al_Scott> me and Barty > had a blast :-) that Barty Mee is a fast clean driver" > > surely hes a dirty mean hotlapper in your eyes ynemard? just like me, only > faster so even more shit in races?????? > > > David Powell clara.co.uk> <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > stupid fool....your talking crap... > > > > your such an annoying little bastard :) > > > > you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre > > last... > > > > every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > > management... > > > > do you believe what you type? > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:w0B89.18786$[email hidden]... > > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > > > > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't > just > > > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position

of > > > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Notthat > > > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > > > > > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race inonline

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> > > leagues there). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I will take an average driver with a great setup vs. a great driver with an average setup at any oval race. IF, they are driving the same setup, then you are correct. However, other than teammates, or a fixed-setup race, when would/should this happen? "David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> agreed about the setup...but driver skill still makes the rest of the > difference.... > > Bill Bollinger <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Oval racing is about 90% setup, not driver skill. Road racing is driver > > skill. I don't care how good you are at "taking care of equipment", if > your > > setup sucks in a TOP LEVEL race, you will get your lunch handed to you. > > > > N2002 requires more knowledge of setup building than GPL by a large > margin. > > > > > > > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:50:29 +0100, "David Powell" > > > <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > >is that best you can come up with.... > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > Seriously, the difference between a fast driver and a slow driver in > > > N2002 is less than half a second per lap. The difference between new > > > tires and worn tires is about 2 seconds per lap. A slow driver who > > > takes care of their equipment can very easily beat a fast driver who > > > is pushing their car to the limit for an entire race. I've seen this > > > happen constantly, both to my benefit and to my loss. Oval racing > > > with realistic tire wear is 80% strategy, 20% driver skill. > > > > > > >nice to you in VROC today, shame you > > > >dont say anything > > > > > > Sorry, working nights here so I've been idle all day. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > ----- > > > GPLRank 24.50 > > > N2002Rank -12.995 > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > stupid fool....your talking crap... Sorry but you have stated in the past that you don't have NR2002, and that you don't know much about NASCAR racing (evidently from your lack of understand what it takes to be succesful). > you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre > last... You would get your arse whooped so much, even in a fixed dega qualification run. > every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > management... LMAO yes, and it's 100x times easier then to handle a 30+ car multiplayer 100% league race. You, don't know because you don't do both. > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote... > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can'tjust

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> > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position of > > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Not that > > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race in online > > leagues there). > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > this has to go on the site im afraid....it will go in comedy section, asmy > readers will love this.....! its truely classic.... Another of your multiple post... it's hilarious how you can't grasp your entire thoughts into one single post. Like your brain has to catch up each time with your hands. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote What's with all the "??????????" and the "non-sensical" sentences? Please, take your time to write and be coherant. Somebody save the ship from sinking!!!! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

can i just add that everyone over at VROC and a wide spread of the community think your a total twat and are currently LMAO at you.... Man your off on it ;) ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XBD89.18912$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > stupid fool....your talking crap... > > Sorry but you have stated in the past that you don't have NR2002, and that > you don't know much about NASCAR racing (evidently from your lack of > understand what it takes to be succesful). > > > you dont even seem to realise you simply adjust pace to make a car/tyre > > last... > > You would get your arse whooped so much, even in a fixed dega

qualification

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> run. > > > > every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > > management... > > LMAO yes, and it's 100x times easier then to handle a 30+ car multiplayer > 100% league race. You, don't know because you don't do both. > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote... > > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > > i know good drivers win thats enough! :) > > > > > > Sorry, good drivers don't win in NASCAR. Good racers do. You can't > just > > > hotlap your way without caring about tyre wear, tyre temps, position

of > > > others, strategy of others, fuel, additional damage like GPL. Notthat > > > there's anything wrong with GPL <G> > > > > > > > > > ;) (it's very true, the first lesson you'll learn if you race inonline

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> > > leagues there). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > can i just add that everyone over at VROC and a wide spread of thecommunity > think your a total twat and are currently LMAO at you.... can I just add that I know, and couldn't care less? It's not like it's the first, or last time. You seem surprised or something, but it just shows how much you don't know about me or this newsgroup in particularly. Anywah, somebody bring back Jacob's servOr or MHO!!!!! :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Ymenard YOU WILL NEVER have the lst word with me, its my nature....you will still be clutching at straws in 10years you prick... People will think more of you if you just shut up and be quiet now....people will start to alienate you soon cause they think your weird... Just sit back and take a breath of air, and then think how this looks to people.. on your respected newsgroup..... I look like a dick but I like that.... ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:U9E89.18937$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > can i just add that everyone over at VROC and a wide spread of the > community > > think your a total twat and are currently LMAO at you.... > > can I just add that I know, and couldn't care less? It's not like it'sthe > first, or last time. You seem surprised or something, but it just showshow

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> much you don't know about me or this newsgroup in particularly. > > > Anywah, somebody bring back Jacob's servOr or MHO!!!!! :) > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > Ymenard YOU WILL NEVER have the lst word with me, Scott? DGF? George Ojeda?? Anybody care to tell him that's an impossibility. Please, for his own sake I have a little compassion here, you know... > People will think more of you if you just shut up and be quiet now Pot, meet Kettle! > People will start to alienate you soon cause they think your weird... Helloooooooooo, like you're stating something new here? Everybody knows I'm Farnk, the weirdo-in-regulation of this newsgroup. You've never read the MHO or Jacob's servOr, I see!!! You would totally freak out, my young apprentice. Long you have to learn, I see.... > think how this looks to people.. on your respected newsgroup..... This simply looks like another flame thread by Frank, as usual. There's nothing special in what I do, in fact it's very easy as you're an easy troll bait. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:13:16 +0100, "David Powell" <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> wrote: >people >will start to alienate you soon cause they think your weird... I thought that was why we liked him. Jason ----- GPLRank 24.50 N2002Rank -12.995

You wont as this will be on my site till after death fool ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LeF89.19094$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > Ymenard YOU WILL NEVER have the lst word with me, > > Scott? DGF? George Ojeda?? Anybody care to tell him that's an > impossibility. Please, for his own sake I have a little compassion here, > you know... > > > > People will think more of you if you just shut up and be quiet now > > Pot, meet Kettle! > > > > People will start to alienate you soon cause they think your weird... > > Helloooooooooo, like you're stating something new here? Everybody knows

I'm

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> Farnk, the weirdo-in-regulation of this newsgroup. > > You've never read the MHO or Jacob's servOr, I see!!! You would totally > freak out, my young apprentice. Long you have to learn, I see.... > > > > think how this looks to people.. on your respected newsgroup..... > > This simply looks like another flame thread by Frank, as usual. There's > nothing special in what I do, in fact it's very easy as you're an easy

troll

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> bait. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

In article <jGz89.18708$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: >>"Jo Sholles" <[email hidden]> wrote... > ><snip> > >Who are yoU??? Another incarnation of David Powell? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> writes: >every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel >management... I used to run the Ferrari all the time, and completed several full GPs. I don't think we ever had anyone run out of fuel on the online GPs I've hosted, either. Until last IICC season, I didn't even KNOW that some people could run out of fuel. The league admin didn't want to run a full GP with reallistic damage because he couldn't do a fuel stop. It was never an issue for me, so I thought that there was enough fuel for ANYONE to make it. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <davidpowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> writes: > > >every tried a full GP in GPL with the ferrari? tell me about fuel > >management... > > I used to run the Ferrari all the time, and completed several full GPs. I > don't think we ever had anyone run out of fuel on the online GPs I've

hosted, > either. Until last IICC season, I didn't even KNOW that some people couldrun > out of fuel. The league admin didn't want to run a full GP withreallistic > damage because he couldn't do a fuel stop. It was never an issue for me,so I

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> thought that there was enough fuel for ANYONE to make it. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+8.09 > N2002 Rank:+22.329 > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > You wont as this will be on my site till after death fool <keeping the whole thread below intact as it proves that he has nothing else to counter-argument> Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against another person, you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss thing to do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic and shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situation in which you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraph and argumentations. So there, you are a coward.

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> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LeF89.19094$[email hidden]... > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > Ymenard YOU WILL NEVER have the lst word with me, > > > > Scott? DGF? George Ojeda?? Anybody care to tell him that's an > > impossibility. Please, for his own sake I have a little compassion

here,

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> > you know... > > > > > > > People will think more of you if you just shut up and be quiet now > > > > Pot, meet Kettle! > > > > > > > People will start to alienate you soon cause they think your weird... > > > > Helloooooooooo, like you're stating something new here? Everybody knows > I'm > > Farnk, the weirdo-in-regulation of this newsgroup. > > > > You've never read the MHO or Jacob's servOr, I see!!! You would totally > > freak out, my young apprentice. Long you have to learn, I see.... > > > > > > > think how this looks to people.. on your respected newsgroup..... > > > > This simply looks like another flame thread by Frank, as usual. There's > > nothing special in what I do, in fact it's very easy as you're an easy > troll > > bait. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

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>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote > In article <jGz89.18708$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> writes: > >>"Jo Sholles" <[email hidden]> wrote... > ><snip> > > > >Who are yoU??? > > Another incarnation of David Powell?

Yeah like his "new best friend" that just posted, Gareth, who just accidentally found this newsgroup today for the first time and saw that his "best friend" was in trouble of being a coward so he went on his side. ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

as you wish! ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HwP89.4001$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > You wont as this will be on my site till after death fool > > <keeping the whole thread below intact as it proves that he has nothingelse

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> to counter-argument> > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against another person, > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss thing to > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic and > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situation in

which

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> you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraph and > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:LeF89.19094$[email hidden]... > > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <davidpowell@<nospam> wrote > > > > Ymenard YOU WILL NEVER have the lst word with me, > > > > > > Scott? DGF? George Ojeda?? Anybody care to tell him that's an > > > impossibility. Please, for his own sake I have a little compassion > here, > > > you know... > > > > > > > > > > People will think more of you if you just shut up and be quiet now > > > > > > Pot, meet Kettle! > > > > > > > > > > People will start to alienate you soon cause they think your

weird... > > > > > > Helloooooooooo, like you're stating something new here? Everybodyknows > > I'm > > > Farnk, the weirdo-in-regulation of this newsgroup. > > > > > > You've never read the MHO or Jacob's servOr, I see!!! You wouldtotally > > > freak out, my young apprentice. Long you have to learn, I see.... > > > > > > > > > > think how this looks to people.. on your respected newsgroup..... > > > > > > This simply looks like another flame thread by Frank, as usual.There's

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> > > nothing special in what I do, in fact it's very easy as you're an easy > > troll > > > bait. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > as you wish! So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you do not want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What a cowardly reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm.. coward!!! > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against anotherperson, > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss thingto > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic and > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situation inwhich > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraph and > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

why? im quite happy watching you slash about like a baby in a paddling pool... seems I dont even need to counter argument to get you fired up now! ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FJR89.23010$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > as you wish! > > So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you do not > want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What a cowardly > reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. > > Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm.. coward!!! > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against another > person, > > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss

thing

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> to > > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic and > > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situation in > which > > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraph and > > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > seems I dont even need to counter argument to get you fired up now! Again, showing your cowardise (impersonating others, writing simple one-liners as an easy escape route, etc...). > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > > as you wish! > > > > So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you donot > > want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What acowardly

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> > reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. > > > > Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm.. coward!!! > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against another > > person, > > > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss > thing > > to > > > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic

and > > > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situationin > > which > > > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraphand

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> > > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

*dribble* ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eiT89.23653$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > seems I dont even need to counter argument to get you fired up now! > > Again, showing your cowardise (impersonating others, writing simple > one-liners as an easy escape route, etc...). > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > > > as you wish! > > > > > > So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you do > not > > > want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What a > cowardly > > > reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. > > > > > > Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm..

coward!!!

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> > > > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against another > > > person, > > > > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a wuss > > thing > > > to > > > > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously idiotic > and > > > > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the situation > in > > > which > > > > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > > > > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and paragraph > and > > > > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > *dribble* coward.

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> ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > Again, showing your cowardise (impersonating others, writing simple > > one-liners as an easy escape route, etc...). > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > as you wish! > > > > So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you

do

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> > not > > > > want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What a > > cowardly > > > > reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. > > > > > > > > Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm.. > coward!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against

another > > > > person, > > > > > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's awuss > > > thing > > > > to > > > > > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculouslyidiotic > > and > > > > > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly thesituation > > in > > > > which > > > > > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text andparagraph > > and > > > > > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

over to you puppet! ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OdU89.5539$[email hidden]...

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> >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > *dribble* > > coward. > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Again, showing your cowardise (impersonating others, writing simple > > > one-liners as an easy escape route, etc...). > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > as you wish! > > > > > So, again (as I will keep the post in which you have replied), you > do > > > not > > > > > want to counter-argument the post and you wuss out of it. What a > > > cowardly > > > > > reaction, compared to all the instigation you have done here. > > > > > > > > > > Again, stop being a coward and COUNTER-ARGUMENT. You... hmm.. > > coward!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > > > > > Look, this is the Usenet. When you do a flamewar against > another > > > > > person, > > > > > > > you don't go over the World Wide Web to chicken out. It's a > wuss > > > > thing > > > > > to > > > > > > > do, in fact most of the people will find this ridiculously > idiotic > > > and > > > > > > > shamelessly cowardly. Yes, cowardly. It is exactly the > situation > > > in > > > > > which > > > > > > > you are putting yourself in a corner at this moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't want to argument here with words and text and > paragraph > > > and > > > > > > > argumentations. So there, you are a coward. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

>"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > over to you puppet! I think you should slap yourself, as you're stuck on the last groove of your vinyl. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

over to you puppet ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YNU89.5560$[email hidden]... > >"David Powell clara.co.uk>" <DavidPowell@<nospam> wrote > > over to you puppet! > > I think you should slap yourself, as you're stuck on the last groove ofyour

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> vinyl. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Lord CN" <[email hidden]> writes: >runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" > Ooh, THAT hurts... So if someone drives it 'properly', but runs out of gas, what good does THAT do? They've still lost the race... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > >runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" > > > > Ooh, THAT hurts... > So if someone drives it 'properly', but runs out of gas, > what good does THAT do? They've still lost the race... Properly meaning exploiting the limitations of the sim, of course. Anyhow, good point Eldred. Running out of gas before the race is over doesn't count as "properly" in my book either. Jan. =---

usually the person driving it "properly" has the brains after the first time its run out to adapt :) EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "Lord CN" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" > > > > Ooh, THAT hurts... > So if someone drives it 'properly', but runs out of gas, what good does

THAT

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> do? They've still lost the race... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+8.09 > N2002 Rank:+22.329 > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" <DavidPowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> writes:

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>usually the person driving it "properly" has the brains after the first time >its run out to adapt :) > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <[email hidden]>, "Lord CN" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" >> > >> >> Ooh, THAT hurts... >> So if someone drives it 'properly', but runs out of gas, what good does >THAT >> do? They've still lost the race...

I guess that's why Lord CN can't do it...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.09 N2002 Rank:+22.329 Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "David Powell" > <DavidPowell@<nospam>clara.co.uk> writes: > > >usually the person driving it "properly" has the brains after the firsttime

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> >its run out to adapt :) > > > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> In article <[email hidden]>, "Lord CN" > >> <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > >> >runs out in most GP's when driven "properly" > >> > > >> > >> Ooh, THAT hurts... > >> So if someone drives it 'properly', but runs out of gas, what good does > >THAT > >> do? They've still lost the race... > > I guess that's why Lord CN can't do it...<g> > > Eldred

<grin>