The "Future" is here?

Hi guys..... I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI, F1 series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you can find it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time. Seems they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another story. What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal shooter sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to the casual gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of a subscription fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best of the best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and make me very happy. How about you guys? Regards, Tom PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing (I just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then finding someplace to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in case). 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame rates and be enjoyable to drive 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few weeks later. 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing controls.....and works in all sims (the same). 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few weeks. 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any current racing sim I like. 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" thinks they are great. 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay "educated".....on which video card I should buy. 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate in......on 8 different sims. 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought three weeks ago....will actually work right. 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going exactly the same speed they are. 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three weeks ago! 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last week. 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work right. 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like the real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just want to race!

Right on dude!!! I want TEN back!! Those few years of racing on TEN were great!! and that was with dial-up back then. With high speed access now-a-days it would be even better!!! Papy's online SUCKS. What are they thinking, come on. I miss racing the same high skill guys everynight, especially at dega, we would be 3 wide for 10 laps and nobody would wreck. You can't beat that!!! Is anybody listening, bring back TEN, or something like it!! -TAZ "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > Hi guys..... > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI,F1 > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you canfind > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time.Seems > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that'sanother

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> story. > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal

shooter > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to thecasual > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of asubscription > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best ofthe

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> best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and > make me very happy. > > How about you guys? > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing

(I > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then findingsomeplace

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> to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > case). > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame > rates and be enjoyable to drive > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few > weeks later. > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > weeks. > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > current racing sim I like. > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" > thinks they are great. > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > in......on 8 different sims. > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > exactly the same speed they are. > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three

weeks

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> ago! > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > week. > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > right. > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like

the > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just > want to race! > >

All the top guys only race in leagues now....open races are just full of muppets that cant get into leagues.....theres a fine racing community for papy games, just it doesnt happen on open servers now the size of communities has increased and a greater ammount of kids and non serious players turn up.. Same has happened to GPL none of the top drivers race open races and therefor VROC is just awash with newbies crashing into each other rather than the old nights of quality race and race...... Seems the old days of small ammounts of more didicated drivers finding a haven to race on the net are gone, as now every tom dick and harry has a PC and internet connection, 3-4years ago the only people who went to the net for gaming in race sims were the very hardcore, and therefor a more didicated, quaility and race rule/etiqeutte aware society could be made... With every kid on the net nowadays theres alot of casuals and "i got the game today how do i race online" drivers, certainly N4, N2002 and GPL arent the games you pickup and race online after 1 night, i played GPL for 6months offline before i came online, and caused problems for the AI not humans players.. Plus its prolly a little harder in the sims of today to race 3 wide :) TAZ <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vx%U8.9716$[email hidden]... > Right on dude!!! > > I want TEN back!! Those few years of racing on TEN were great!! and thatwas

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> with dial-up back then. > With high speed access now-a-days it would be even better!!! > > Papy's online SUCKS. What are they thinking, come on. > > I miss racing the same high skill guys everynight, especially at dega, we > would be 3 wide for 10 laps and nobody would wreck. > You can't beat that!!! > > Is anybody listening, bring back TEN, or something like it!! > > -TAZ > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > > Hi guys..... > > > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the

ISI,

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> F1 > > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you can > find > > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time. > Seems > > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right

or

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> > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's > another > > story. > > > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd

have > > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to waitfor > > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed onceagain > > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. Itis > > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it willenhance > > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community forsome > > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate tobecome

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> > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal > shooter > > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to the > casual > > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of a > subscription > > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best of > the > > best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO)

and

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> > make me very happy. > > > > How about you guys? > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing > (I > > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick

up

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> > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then finding > someplace > > to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > > case). > > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent

frame > > rates and be enjoyable to drive > > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only afew

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> > weeks later. > > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > > weeks. > > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > > current racing sim I like. > > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so

I > > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the"author" > > thinks they are great. > > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hackergroups.....do > > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with eachother. > > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > > in......on 8 different sims. > > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim Ibought

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> > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > > exactly the same speed they are. > > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three > weeks > > ago! > > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > > week. > > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > > right. > > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like > the > > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I

just > > want to race! > > > > > >

If EA is to crack Papys hold on the Nascar market there gonna have to do a hell of lot better than F12002 as a package.... N2002 is the most complete sim out there, tracks aside :) EA/ISI project is a joke compared.... I dont think Papy have much to fear from ISI and EA...yet... Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > Hi guys..... > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI,F1 > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you canfind > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time.Seems > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that'sanother

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> story. > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal

shooter > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to thecasual > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of asubscription > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best ofthe

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> best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and > make me very happy. > > How about you guys? > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing

(I > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then findingsomeplace

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> to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > case). > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame > rates and be enjoyable to drive > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few > weeks later. > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > weeks. > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > current racing sim I like. > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" > thinks they are great. > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > in......on 8 different sims. > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > exactly the same speed they are. > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three

weeks

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> ago! > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > week. > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > right. > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like

the > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just > want to race! > >

"Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" How so? "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > Hi guys..... > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI,F1 > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you canfind > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time.Seems > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that'sanother

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> story. > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal

shooter > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to thecasual > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of asubscription > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best ofthe

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> best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and > make me very happy. > > How about you guys? > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing

(I > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then findingsomeplace

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> to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > case). > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame > rates and be enjoyable to drive > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few > weeks later. > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > weeks. > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > current racing sim I like. > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" > thinks they are great. > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > in......on 8 different sims. > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > exactly the same speed they are. > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three

weeks

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> ago! > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > week. > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > right. > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like

the > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just > want to race! > >

Schooner wrote: > > "Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" > How so? Well, for one they have all their eggs in one basket these days, there are only so many Nascar fans out there waiting for a Nascar sim, and some day someone will get close enough to give Papy some competition, NHeat wasn't a bad effort I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Schooner wrote: > > > > "Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" > > How so? > > Well, for one they have all their eggs in one basket these days, there > are only so many Nascar fans out there waiting for a Nascar sim, and > some day someone will get close enough to give Papy some competition, > NHeat wasn't a bad effort > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim

lol! You never give up do you ? :) By the way, how would you fancy some payment for NR2002 ? I need details. And if you didn't know it, Jeeves and Wooster, the second season is out on DVD in GB, availiable for �9.99 including shipping from www.play.com. A must have. :D Off topic rant over -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

>"TAZ" <[email hidden]> wrote > Papy's online SUCKS. No. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > story. Well I stopped reading right after that line. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Olav Malmin wrote: > > lol! You never give up do you ? :) If I give up they might not do one > By the way, how would you fancy some payment for NR2002 ? I need > details. I keep forgetting, some business man I am eh, I'll send you an e-mail when I get down to the shop tomorrow with the details, thx for reminding me > And if you didn't know it, Jeeves and Wooster, the second season is > out on DVD in GB, availiable for �9.99 including shipping from > www.play.com. A must have. :D Definitive must have, I need to get this stuff, been promising myself forever it seems I say, jolly good show old chap Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

So did I pretty much :) "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]...

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> >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > story. > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I think Tom is probably concerned about the shade of the grass at Sears Point, someone will get it right and then Papy will be doomed ;) "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]...

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> >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > story. > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

"David Powell" wrote... > If EA is to crack Papys hold on the Nascar market there > gonna have to do a hell of lot better than F12002 as a > package.... > > N2002 is the most complete sim out there, tracks aside :) > EA/ISI project is a joke compared.... Point taken. > I dont think Papy have much to fear from ISI and EA... > yet... That what we said about F1 2000 and Crammond/Ubisoft two years ago. Jan. =---

Point taken. That what we said about F1 2000 and Crammond/Ubisoft two years ago. Jan. =---

Saw this article a few days ago. What caught my eye was the notes about multi,(towards the end of the article, which says a lot where their priorities are IMO) which in typical EA fashion, isn't good. John "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > Hi guys..... > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI,F1 > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you canfind > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time.Seems > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that'sanother

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> story. > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal

shooter > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to thecasual > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of asubscription > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best ofthe

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> best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and > make me very happy. > > How about you guys? > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing

(I > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then findingsomeplace

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> to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > case). > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame > rates and be enjoyable to drive > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few > weeks later. > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > weeks. > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > current racing sim I like. > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" > thinks they are great. > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > in......on 8 different sims. > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > exactly the same speed they are. > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three

weeks

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> ago! > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > week. > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > right. > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like

the > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just > want to race! > >

Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now compared to the Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........one doesn't. John "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Schooner wrote: > > > > "Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" > > How so? > > Well, for one they have all their eggs in one basket these days, there > are only so many Nascar fans out there waiting for a Nascar sim, and > some day someone will get close enough to give Papy some competition, > NHeat wasn't a bad effort > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]...

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> >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > story. > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

Me too...........and I'm far from a Papy clone :) I'd love to see some competition, but this won't be it. John

"David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote on 04 Jul 2002:

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> All the top guys only race in leagues now....open races are just > full of muppets that cant get into leagues.....theres a fine > racing community for papy games, just it doesnt happen on open > servers now the size of communities has increased and a greater > ammount of kids and non serious players turn up.. Same has > happened to GPL none of the top drivers race open races and > therefor VROC is just awash with newbies crashing into each other > rather than the old nights of quality race and race......

<snip> Kermit speaking <g> The problem is that there are quite a few of us who are reasonably competent drivers (I'm not giving myself delusions here; I'm no alien, but I can - usually! - go more than 30 yards without crashing and allow lapping cars to pass safely, which seems to be beyond some people), but for whatever reason don't have the time/inclination to commit to a league. I must say, I rather resent the idea (not that you've said so, but some have implied as much, even if they didn't mean to) that this means we're by definition incompetents. It's true that there are too many drivers who don't know the first thing about racecraft, but if you avoid Monza and go for longer and/or Pro races, you avoid a great deal of that type of aggro. I don't know why, but Spa seems to be mostly free of the madmen, which is great as it's such a nice track :-) Incidentally, it's not *quite* true that none of the top guys race on pickups - I've raced in the last month against people who were lapping in the 1:03s at the Glen, sub-8:00 at the Ring and in the 1:26s at Silverstone (not clock smashes either) - though I accept that it's not very common. -- Cricket: England 2 Sri Lanka 0 Athletics: Gt Britain & NI European Cup winners Keep those flags up! The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

"Steve Whitty" wrote... > <snip> > Aussie V8's? Someone say aussie v8's?? > We want aussie v8's!!! I'd settle for anything that's still driven sideways on occasion. ;-)) Jan. =---

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim Better than that, they could do a general car sim. It could ship with Aussie V8s if you like, as long as it is nice and expandable so F1, DTM, Formula Fords, historic racers and ride-on lawnmowers can all be "plugged in" in the future. Papy's netcode is brilliant, only Carmack and Q3 beats GPL online. :0) Jim

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > "Steve Whitty" wrote... > > <snip> > > Aussie V8's? Someone say aussie v8's?? > > We want aussie v8's!!! > > I'd settle for anything that's still driven sideways on occasion. ;-)) And on two wheels over the chicanes. With one meter long flames coming out of the sides on downshifts... BLLLOOOOM! .. making the spectators feel the radiated heat right in the face. the memories.... :) -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

>"Jim Seamus" <[email hidden]> wrote > Papy's netcode is brilliant, only Carmack and Q3 beats GPL online. :0) Nascar Racing 2002 is far ahead of GPL in terms of the multiplayer options, the community options and the quality/stability of it's client/server structure. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

track editor would sure add to replay value of the game. ======================= I am the great Galooga! =======================

I don't understand why WON doesn't track Wins, Top-5's and Top-10's like TEN did. As well as poles. If it can collect the complex data that it does now, it can _certainly_ collect this easy stuff. -Larry "TAZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vx%U8.9716$[email hidden]... > Right on dude!!! > > I want TEN back!! Those few years of racing on TEN were great!! and thatwas

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> with dial-up back then. > With high speed access now-a-days it would be even better!!! > > Papy's online SUCKS. What are they thinking, come on. > > I miss racing the same high skill guys everynight, especially at dega, we > would be 3 wide for 10 laps and nobody would wreck. > You can't beat that!!! > > Is anybody listening, bring back TEN, or something like it!! > > -TAZ > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > > Hi guys..... > > > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the

ISI,

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> F1 > > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you can > find > > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time. > Seems > > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right

or

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> > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's > another > > story. > > > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd

have > > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to waitfor > > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed onceagain > > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. Itis > > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it willenhance > > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community forsome > > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate tobecome

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> > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal > shooter > > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to the > casual > > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of a > subscription > > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best of > the > > best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO)

and

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> > make me very happy. > > > > How about you guys? > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing > (I > > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick

up

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> > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then finding > someplace > > to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > > case). > > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent

frame > > rates and be enjoyable to drive > > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only afew

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> > weeks later. > > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > > weeks. > > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > > current racing sim I like. > > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so

I > > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the"author" > > thinks they are great. > > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hackergroups.....do > > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with eachother. > > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > > in......on 8 different sims. > > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim Ibought

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> > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > > exactly the same speed they are. > > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three > weeks > > ago! > > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > > week. > > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > > right. > > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like > the > > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I

just > > want to race! > > > > > >

Heat has the smarter AI, as far as I'm concerned. NR2002 suffers from "AI that turns left regardless of what's around them" worse than anything I've ever driven. Try a 43 car race at Texas. Say.... 20% at 100% strength. I doubt you'll survive. -Larry "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now compared tothe

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> Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........one doesn't. > > John > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Schooner wrote: > > > > > > "Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" > > > How so? > > > > Well, for one they have all their eggs in one basket these days, there > > are only so many Nascar fans out there waiting for a Nascar sim, and > > some day someone will get close enough to give Papy some competition, > > NHeat wasn't a bad effort > > > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

"Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3d24d89c$0$11270$[email hidden]...

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > Aussie V8's? Someone say aussie v8's?? We want aussie v8's!!! > > steve >

Ok here's the Plan. We get Papy to Code a CART sim with an Aussie V8 hidden side program. Then when you press the game pad up 3 times over twice and circle the dpad around backwards like an Aussie toliet, then you can race the V8's. dave henrie

Though you're not the first to make that comment, I still don't understand it. Heat has what I would call "Village People" AI. They are constantly trying to ram you in the ass. It's most obvious on the road courses. This is true of both the PC version and the Xbox version. Not just on the track, but even in the pit lane. Plus you can bump them all you want in whatever direction you want, they won't crash - they seem to be on rails. Papy AI seems to respond much more realistically to me. "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S58V8.23889$%%[email hidden]... > Heat has the smarter AI, as far as I'm concerned. > > NR2002 suffers from "AI that turns left regardless of what's aroundthem" > worse than anything I've ever driven. > > Try a 43 car race at Texas. Say.... 20% at 100% strength. I doubtyou'll > survive. > > -Larry >

C'mon Tom, the future can never be "here", it's always in the future <G> -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dk%U8.410558$cQ3.27849@sccrnsc01... > Hi guys..... > > I just read an article about the upcoming EA release of its new "NASCAR > Thunder" for PC........under new developership at Tiburon (using the ISI, F1 > series engine). I don't recall the URL (didn't save it)....but you can find > it off the Team Lightspeed website and read it for yourself. > > Promising? Sure.....and maybe the "hype" isn't all empty this time. Seems > they are targeting the Papy dominance of the NASCAR titles........right or > wrong.....Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > story. > > What did catch my eye was three words: Track editor included! > > Now.....what would be perfect is to have it say, "Track editor, 3D car > editor and physics model editor.....included." If we had that, we'd have > caught up to the flight sim community and we could stop having to wait for > "this or that" title to be released....only to be disappointed once again > from one aspect or another (the WSC story is a classic example). The > hardcore sim racing community needs their own racing sim....period. It is > my opinion this will not hurt sim racing PC title sales....it will enhance > it. At least, that has been the case in the flight sim community for some > five years now. People interested in casual PC gaming......don't want > hardcore simulation "games" anyway. A few of those.....migrate to become > full time, hardcore hobbyist.....whether it be flight sims, personal shooter > sims......or racing sims. The vast majority of sales.....are to the casual > gamers...and it will always remain that way, IMHO. > > Somebody is going to figure this industry out........put out a good > "universally modifiable" racing sim.......charge some type of a subscription > fee for "official" hacks and updates (probably gleaned from the "best of the > best" sim community hackers, artists and programmers...and share some > revenue with them - finally!).....make a killing (deservedly so, IMHO) and > make me very happy. > > How about you guys? > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: Here's all the things I do now......that I'm growing tired of doing (I > just want to race in a couple of good weekly leagues.....do a few pick up > races now and then with buddies....and have time to actually practice): > > 1. Installing a new racing sim title that is junk (then finding someplace > to keep it in case somebody makes a hack that makes it good....just in > case). > 2. Building computers so a racing sim will look good, have decent frame > rates and be enjoyable to drive > 3. Upgrading hardware on the computers I build....sometimes only a few > weeks later. > 4. Searching for a controller that feels like real-world racing > controls.....and works in all sims (the same). > 5. Throwing away old controllers that didn't work for more than a few > weeks. > 6. Throwing away old controllers that worked great.....but not in any > current racing sim I like. > 7. Constantly searching for updates and hacks on the Internet.....so I > can enjoy the current sim I'm playing around with. > 8. Uninstalling hacks and updates that are junk.......but the "author" > thinks they are great. > 9. Reading discussions about frame rates......and video cards. > 10. Reading ras posts about: "What video card should I buy?" > 11. Constantly searching the Internet for articles to stay > "educated".....on which video card I should buy. > 12. Watching two different (and talented) racing sim hacker groups.....do > incompatible work on the same sim......trying to compete with each other. > 13. Make "multiplayer" work on 8 different sims. > 14. Keep up to date on what leagues are available for me to participate > in......on 8 different sims. > 15. Waiting for "official patch" releases....so a promising sim I bought > three weeks ago....will actually work right. > 16. Racing against AI cars that will run in to me.....unless I'm going > exactly the same speed they are. > 17. Racing against 10 AI cars....so my frame rates stay above 30 > FPS....even though I built the fastest computer in the world.....three weeks > ago! > 18. Paying $500 for set of racing pedals.......that cost $100 to > make......and that work just like the $50 plastic set I threw away last > week. > 19. "Fdisk-ing" anything....because my favorite racing sim doesn't work > right. > 20. Installing "car sets" on a developer's sim title.....that look like the > real-world race cars in the series it is supposed to simulate. > > I could go on and on.....but I'm getting tired of posting on ras. I just > want to race! > >

Figured many wouldn't agree with that....so I didn't go into it (Papy's vulnerability wasn't germane to the post anyway). TP "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]...

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> >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > story. > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

why play against AI? :) in 3years of gpl the last time i raced AI was the night before i brought a modem! Larry (The Other Larry) <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S58V8.23889$%%[email hidden]...

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> Heat has the smarter AI, as far as I'm concerned. > > NR2002 suffers from "AI that turns left regardless of what's around them" > worse than anything I've ever driven. > > Try a 43 car race at Texas. Say.... 20% at 100% strength. I doubt you'll > survive. > > -Larry > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now compared to > the > > Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........one doesn't. > > > > John > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Schooner wrote: > > > > > > > > "Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think" > > > > How so? > > > > > > Well, for one they have all their eggs in one basket these days, there > > > are only so many Nascar fans out there waiting for a Nascar sim, and > > > some day someone will get close enough to give Papy some competition, > > > NHeat wasn't a bad effort > > > > > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > >

SPR has already been fixed.....weeks ago. TP "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3p2V8.33829$[email hidden]...

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> I think Tom is probably concerned about the shade of the grass at Sears > Point, someone will get it right and then Papy will be doomed ;) > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]... > > >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > > story. > > > > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

So you just mentioned it with nothing to back it up to trying and start an issue? "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dbjV8.421851$cQ3.28734@sccrnsc01...

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> Figured many wouldn't agree with that....so I didn't go into it (Papy's > vulnerability wasn't germane to the post anyway). > > TP > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]... > > >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > > story. > > > > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim Aussie V8's? Someone say aussie v8's?? We want aussie v8's!!! steve

"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S58V8.23889$%%[email hidden]...

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> Heat has the smarter AI, as far as I'm concerned. > > NR2002 suffers from "AI that turns left regardless of what's around them" > worse than anything I've ever driven. > > Try a 43 car race at Texas. Say.... 20% at 100% strength. I doubt you'll > survive. > > -Larry >

You mean NR2002 has AI for offline racing? LOL! :) Didn't know that feature was included...that's the problem with NR2002, there is the faction that could care less if there even was an AI and those that think the AI is the only way to race it.

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:ag37qp$ik6ot$1@ID- 125164.news.dfncis.de:

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> Though you're not the first to make that comment, I still don't > understand it. Heat has what I would call "Village People" AI. They > are constantly trying to ram you in the ass. It's most obvious on the > road courses. This is true of both the PC version and the Xbox version. > Not just on the track, but even in the pit lane. Plus you can bump them > all you want in whatever direction you want, they won't crash - they > seem to be on rails. Papy AI seems to respond much more realistically > to me. >

I play the BriSCA HEAT mods (contact short oval racing) and can confirm that the AI are quite capable of being buried into the armco when you put the bumper in! The players are equally accomodating in online racing. (I'm in a league with 40 regular attenders each week). Even taking the regular NASCAR cars out on the short ovals, I've had no problem "asserting my presence" on them, so I guess you're talking about nuding the back of the AI car on the side at, say 180mph on the super speedway? cheers John

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:FljV8.34074$[email hidden]: > So you just mentioned it with nothing to back it up to trying and > start an issue? > Are you on crack, mate? It was a perfectly on topic comment. Papy put all their eggs in the NASCAR basket, so it's no surprise that vulnerability would get a mention in a post about a future NASCAR game. John

If they put all their eggs in one basic with NASCAR then how does that make them vulnerable in the NASCAR sim area?? That's like saying Coke put all their eggs into the soda biz and thus are vulnerable to some new soda company that might start up. "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:FljV8.34074$[email hidden]: > > > So you just mentioned it with nothing to back it up to trying and > > start an issue? > > > > Are you on crack, mate? > It was a perfectly on topic comment. Papy put all their eggs in the

NASCAR > basket, so it's no surprise that vulnerability would get a mention in a > post about a future NASCAR game. > > John

King of wishful thinking. Cant see how a money grabber like EA will release a sim that will hurt the sales of its future sims, unless they do the normal thing amd release the exact same sim jazzed up a little a year later and make it imcompatible with previous versions.

Might depend on the mod then. Once I took the attitude "if you can't beat them join them" and tried a race at Bristol. I did not deliberately try to wreck any of them, but I didn't hesitate to bang them if they got in the way either. None of them left the track, they just swerved and regained control. And frankly I didn't have much trouble staying on either. I once did the same thing in N4 and got completely different results - cars all over the infield, often including me, pile-ups big enough to completely stop traffic. But regardless, the thing that still bothered me most about Heat's AI was the fact that if you brake a little sooner than them you get rammed, every time. Or come out on the straight during a practice session, if the track's not clear you're going to get rammed. The AI is on rails and doesn't seem to know you are there. Probably this does not affect more skillful drivers because you aren't as slow as I am. But at least Papy's AI can adjust to my ability, Heat's can't. "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I play the BriSCA HEAT mods (contact short oval racing) and canconfirm > that the AI are quite capable of being buried into the armco when youput > the bumper in! The players are equally accomodating in online racing.(I'm > in a league with 40 regular attenders each week). > > Even taking the regular NASCAR cars out on the short ovals, I've hadno > problem "asserting my presence" on them, so I guess you're talkingabout > nuding the back of the AI car on the side at, say 180mph on the super > speedway? > > cheers > John

>"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote > If they put all their eggs in one basic with NASCAR then how does thatmake > them vulnerable in the NASCAR sim area?? Well that's my point also. Tom's post (btw Tom I'm not putting down your opinion) is for me irrelevant because I feel that while indeed Papyrus lacks shamely in non-NASCAR sims for almost 3+ years now, for one thing they completely solidified their feet in the asphalt of NASCAR sims for the PC. Nobody can barely even touch them there for the next 3 years. At most, somebody could say that only doing NASCAR sims puts horse blindfolds on the eyes of the people at Papyrus. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote > I don't understand why WON doesn't track Wins, Top-5's and Top-10's likeTEN > did. As well as poles. Because it's not important anymore `:) Serious pickup racing is dead. > If it can collect the complex data that it does now, it can _certainly_ > collect this easy stuff. I remember something about that in N4, where an AI bot would perform this task of getting the rankings from others in the chat arenas (checking the profiles of each driver). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I think Papy is aware of the market, which right now is NASCAR and thus the reason for the focus. F1 is currently saturated, CART/IRL is a waste of effort for a small market, as are most other US based racing series. Yes there are other countries and series but I think when you look at the market the sales are just not their to justify the effort. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QelV8.13134$[email hidden]...

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> >"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote > > If they put all their eggs in one basic with NASCAR then how does that > make > > them vulnerable in the NASCAR sim area?? > > > Well that's my point also. Tom's post (btw Tom I'm not putting down your > opinion) is for me irrelevant because I feel that while indeed Papyrus

lacks

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> shamely in non-NASCAR sims for almost 3+ years now, for one thing they > completely solidified their feet in the asphalt of NASCAR sims for the PC. > Nobody can barely even touch them there for the next 3 years. > > At most, somebody could say that only doing NASCAR sims puts horse > blindfolds on the eyes of the people at Papyrus. > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Dave Henrie wrote: > > Ok here's the Plan. We get Papy to Code a CART sim with an Aussie V8 > hidden side program. Then when you press the game pad up 3 times over twice > and circle the dpad around backwards like an Aussie toliet, then you can > race the V8's. > dave henrie Funny :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Steve Whitty wrote: > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > Aussie V8's? Someone say aussie v8's?? We want aussie v8's!!! I keep saying it all the time, it's just that none of the people who knows how to make a half decent sim wants to make one it seems Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

John Pancoast wrote: > > Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now compared to the > Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........one doesn't. As stated in other threads, MP isn't all that important to the majority of sim buyers, if it was you'd see a whole lot more people doing pickup racing on Sierra/Won/Whatever, we the enthusiasts may think it's important, but there's not enough of us to make a difference, if we did we'd have GPL2 by now Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Jim Seamus wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > I believe they should expand and do an AussieV8 sim > > Better than that, they could do a general car sim. It could ship with Aussie > V8s if you like, as long as it is nice and expandable so F1, DTM, Formula > Fords, historic racers and ride-on lawnmowers can all be "plugged in" in the > future. > > Papy's netcode is brilliant, only Carmack and Q3 beats GPL online. :0)

Fair enough, as long as I gets my AussieV8's :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l3kV8.12614$[email hidden]... > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S58V8.23889$%%[email hidden]... > > Heat has the smarter AI, as far as I'm concerned. > > > > NR2002 suffers from "AI that turns left regardless of what's aroundthem" > > worse than anything I've ever driven. > > > > Try a 43 car race at Texas. Say.... 20% at 100% strength. I doubtyou'll > > survive. > > > > -Larry > > > > You mean NR2002 has AI for offline racing? LOL! :) Didn't know thatfeature > was included...that's the problem with NR2002, there is the faction that > could care less if there even was an AI and those that think the AI is the > only way to race it. > AI programming equals wasted programming <G> John >

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now compared tothe

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> > Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........one doesn't. > > As stated in other threads, MP isn't all that important to the majority > of sim buyers, if it was you'd see a whole lot more people doing pickup > racing on Sierra/Won/Whatever, we the enthusiasts may think it's > important, but there's not enough of us to make a difference, if we did > we'd have GPL2 by now > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

I know, but fwiw, I've never subscribed to that argument. Only games that keep getting played year after year are ones with quality multi. GPL is a perfect example. If it wasn't for VROC, it'd be long dead. Or again, how come Heat is dead ? Most likely, N2002 offline isn't that much better. IMO of course<G> John

John Pancoast wrote: > > I know, but fwiw, I've never subscribed to that argument. Only games > that keep getting played year after year are ones with quality multi. GPL > is a perfect example. If it wasn't for VROC, it'd be long dead. It's the fan base keeping it alive, and no wonder since it's an excellent sim, for the enthusiast, probably less so for Sierra/Vivendi As for what part keeping it alive, GP2 and GP3 has a lot of fan sites going, well not so much GP2 anymore probably :-), but I seem to remember from posts in this forum that they had "less than excellent MP" Never can tell what gives a game a huge following can you, there are plenty of stuff going on for NFS Hot Pursuit or whatever it was called, people painting cars and stuff, Motor City Online on the other hand...., but then again, it didn't have that good MP either, and no offline play > Or again, how come Heat is dead ? Most likely, N2002 offline isn't that > much better. Heat isn't dead, it's thriving as a matter of fact with new mods popping up right and left :-), MP Heat is dead though, but then again it was sort of stillborn wasn't it ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:ag4mb7$ird8a$1@ID- 125164.news.dfncis.de: > the track's not clear you're going to get rammed. The AI is on rails > and doesn't seem to know you are there. Probably this does not affect > more skillful drivers because you aren't as slow as I am. But at least > Papy's AI can adjust to my ability, Heat's can't. > Yeah, I think Heat's AI run on rails like you say. Which proabably doesn't work as well when the idea of the racing formula *isn't* to bump the car in front off the racing line, but expect him (it) to adjust position intelligently... cheers John

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:IikV8.34089$[email hidden]: > If they put all their eggs in one basic with NASCAR then how does that > make them vulnerable in the NASCAR sim area?? > That's like saying Coke put all their eggs into the soda biz and thus > are vulnerable to some new soda company that might start up. > Not really, it's like saying Coke put all their eggs into the Cola business, without considering fizzy orange or fizzy lemonade drinks. Coke would still cream the market, but then Papyrus Racing Simulations do not have their marketing budget! If EA Sports put a "killer" Nascar game onto the consoles and PC, then that will affect Sierra's share of the market, and thus Papyrus' position as developer. They can't move into fizzy orange (sports cars) or fizzy lemonade (historic gp sequels) because they only do cola (nascar) then pepsi come along and papy are out of a job... ;o) cheers John

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Heat isn't dead, it's thriving as a matter of fact with new mods > popping up right and left :-), MP Heat is dead though, but then again > it was sort of stillborn wasn't it ? As I've mentioned elsewhere, I play heat online with 40 other people on a weekly basis (not all at once, admittedly 10-12 in each race heats and final) It's the mods that make Heat worthwhile. If N2K2 was moddable, even more would be playing it, I am sure. cheers John

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > I know, but fwiw, I've never subscribed to that argument. Only games > > that keep getting played year after year are ones with quality multi.GPL

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> > is a perfect example. If it wasn't for VROC, it'd be long dead. > > It's the fan base keeping it alive, and no wonder since it's an > excellent sim, for the enthusiast, probably less so for Sierra/Vivendi > > As for what part keeping it alive, GP2 and GP3 has a lot of fan sites > going, well not so much GP2 anymore probably :-), but I seem to remember > from posts in this forum that they had "less than excellent MP" > > Never can tell what gives a game a huge following can you, there are > plenty of stuff going on for NFS Hot Pursuit or whatever it was called, > people painting cars and stuff, Motor City Online on the other hand...., > but then again, it didn't have that good MP either, and no offline play > > > Or again, how come Heat is dead ? Most likely, N2002 offline isn't

that

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> > much better. > > Heat isn't dead, it's thriving as a matter of fact with new mods popping > up right and left :-), MP Heat is dead though, but then again it was > sort of stillborn wasn't it ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Well, I'll never be convinced otherwise anyway, but who cares :) I still believe GPL and it's fanbase would be dead without it's multi ability, and in terms of Heat, I meant the original stock car version, and it's dead as Enron stock. John

I think that may be true if the People at Papy are only capable of making Nascar sims. As I think they've proven with GPL, if they want I'm sure they can move easily onto many different forms of drinks. -- Brian Simpson Big "O" Boats - www.bigoboats.com Member Team Lightspeed! - http://www.sportplanet.com/team-lightspeed/ "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:IikV8.34089$[email hidden]: > > > If they put all their eggs in one basic with NASCAR then how does that > > make them vulnerable in the NASCAR sim area?? > > That's like saying Coke put all their eggs into the soda biz and thus > > are vulnerable to some new soda company that might start up. > > > > Not really, it's like saying Coke put all their eggs into the Cola > business, without considering fizzy orange or fizzy lemonade drinks. Coke > would still cream the market, but then Papyrus Racing Simulations do not > have their marketing budget! If EA Sports put a "killer" Nascar game onto > the consoles and PC, then that will affect Sierra's share of the market, > and thus Papyrus' position as developer. They can't move into fizzy orange > (sports cars) or fizzy lemonade (historic gp sequels) because they only do > cola (nascar) then pepsi come along and papy are out of a job... > > ;o) > > cheers > John

I keep heat around for visitors, who always find it more enjoyable than NR2002. -Larry "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > > Heat isn't dead, it's thriving as a matter of fact with new mods > > popping up right and left :-), MP Heat is dead though, but then again > > it was sort of stillborn wasn't it ? > > As I've mentioned elsewhere, I play heat online with 40 other people on a > weekly basis (not all at once, admittedly 10-12 in each race heats and > final) > It's the mods that make Heat worthwhile. If N2K2 was moddable, even more > would be playing it, I am sure. > > cheers > John

JM wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > > Heat isn't dead, it's thriving as a matter of fact with new mods > > popping up right and left :-), MP Heat is dead though, but then again > > it was sort of stillborn wasn't it ? > > As I've mentioned elsewhere, I play heat online with 40 other people on a > weekly basis (not all at once, admittedly 10-12 in each race heats and > final) > It's the mods that make Heat worthwhile. If N2K2 was moddable, even more > would be playing it, I am sure.

Ok, not dead, but certainly low key :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

John Pancoast wrote: > > Well, I'll never be convinced otherwise anyway, but who cares :) I still > believe GPL and it's fanbase would be dead without it's multi ability, and > in terms of Heat, I meant the original stock car version, and it's dead as > Enron stock. I'm not actually disagreeing with you, just saying that I think GPL would have had a large fan base even without MP due to the fact that it takes a special interest to overcome the large step it was to go from ICR2 or N2 to the physics model of GPL, and all this to be able to run around in F1 cars from 1967 ? And as for NHeat, I totally agree, who would want to run around in that compared to N4 and NR2002, but I still think NHeat had a lot of promise and I hope they come out with a 2nd effort Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Ditto on hopes for a second shot from the guys at MGI. Heat was a great game IMHO, with only a few niggles and a lack of support from the publishers (as opposed to the developers) that kept it from being more successful. MGI were a great help to the community in making Heat more mod-friendly with the patches. As for its MP, though it was more demanding of bandwidth than Papy sims, if you had good connections you could bump and bang online with a dozen or so cars just like offline. Some of the most intense and enjoyable online racing I've had was with Thomas Heineman's DTM mod, leaning on each other out of the turns & scraping fenders halfway down the straights at converted tracks like Brno, Mugello and Donington. Looked like a bunch of BTCC whacko's out there... :-) Cheers, SB "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > Well, I'll never be convinced otherwise anyway, but who cares :) Istill > > believe GPL and it's fanbase would be dead without it's multi ability,and > > in terms of Heat, I meant the original stock car version, and it's deadas

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> > Enron stock. > > I'm not actually disagreeing with you, just saying that I think GPL > would have had a large fan base even without MP due to the fact that it > takes a special interest to overcome the large step it was to go from > ICR2 or N2 to the physics model of GPL, and all this to be able to run > around in F1 cars from 1967 ? > > And as for NHeat, I totally agree, who would want to run around in that > compared to N4 and NR2002, but I still think NHeat had a lot of promise > and I hope they come out with a 2nd effort > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_zAV8.580654$%[email hidden]... > Ditto on hopes for a second shot from the guys at MGI. Heat was a great > game IMHO, with only a few niggles and a lack of support from thepublishers > (as opposed to the developers) that kept it from being more successful.MGI > were a great help to the community in making Heat more mod-friendly withthe > patches. As for its MP, though it was more demanding of bandwidth thanPapy > sims, if you had good connections you could bump and bang online with a > dozen or so cars just like offline. Some of the most intense andenjoyable > online racing I've had was with Thomas Heineman's DTM mod, leaning oneach > other out of the turns & scraping fenders halfway down the straights at > converted tracks like Brno, Mugello and Donington. Looked like a bunchof > BTCC whacko's out there... :-) > > Cheers, > > SB Well the good news is the TPTCC league is still using the DTM mod but we have gotten a beta of the DTM2 physics AND tweeked the damage model so you don't get suspension damage so easily. 6 gears and slightly higher rev limit. Summer season is going strong. dave henrie

the fact the game is so good has made it survive not VROC...VROC was only made as its so good :) John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > Agreed Heat wasn't a bad effort, but how many play it now comparedto > the > > > Papy sims..................one has excellent multi.........onedoesn't.

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> > > > As stated in other threads, MP isn't all that important to the majority > > of sim buyers, if it was you'd see a whole lot more people doing pickup > > racing on Sierra/Won/Whatever, we the enthusiasts may think it's > > important, but there's not enough of us to make a difference, if we did > > we'd have GPL2 by now > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > > I know, but fwiw, I've never subscribed to that argument. Only games > that keep getting played year after year are ones with quality multi. GPL > is a perfect example. If it wasn't for VROC, it'd be long dead. > Or again, how come Heat is dead ? Most likely, N2002 offline isn't that > much better. > > IMO of course<G> > > John > >

"David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > the fact the game is so good has made it survive not VROC...VROC was only > made as its so good :) > The greatness of the title did indeed encourage VROC, but without Vroc and GPLrank, there would be no community today. Just a few lost souls who hadn't seen real daylight in 4 years. dave henrie

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I keep saying it all the time, it's just that none of the people who > knows how to make a half decent sim wants to make one it seems Ain't that the truth. Maybe one day we'll have a decent sim for the Aussie v8's Steve

"Brian Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3d2645e6$[email hidden]: > I think that may be true if the People at Papy are only capable of > making Nascar sims. > > As I think they've proven with GPL, if they want I'm sure they can > move easily onto many different forms of drinks. > I don't think Papy's "physics" are in any way flexible at all. That's not necessarily true, but it's an opinion I've formed based on previous discussions. I think they could maybe do Cherry Coke, but not Lemon & Lime. cheers John

"JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Even taking the regular NASCAR cars out on the short ovals, I've had no > problem "asserting my presence" on them, so I guess you're talking about > nuding the back of the AI car on the side at, say 180mph on the super > speedway? Just how do you 'nude' the back of another car?

"David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > why play against AI? :) in 3years of gpl the last time i raced AI was the > night before i brought a modem! Some of us still pay call charges to go online. It's called British Telecom screwing the British Public, and it sucks. I can't even pay them �30 a month for ADSL because they can't be arsed to upgrade my local exchange with the new technology.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > Well, I'll never be convinced otherwise anyway, but who cares :) Istill > > believe GPL and it's fanbase would be dead without it's multi ability,and > > in terms of Heat, I meant the original stock car version, and it's deadas

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> > Enron stock. > > I'm not actually disagreeing with you, just saying that I think GPL > would have had a large fan base even without MP due to the fact that it > takes a special interest to overcome the large step it was to go from > ICR2 or N2 to the physics model of GPL, and all this to be able to run > around in F1 cars from 1967 ? > > And as for NHeat, I totally agree, who would want to run around in that > compared to N4 and NR2002, but I still think NHeat had a lot of promise > and I hope they come out with a 2nd effort > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Yep, good points. John

It wasn't the connection question as much as other things that trashed it's mp(stock car), for me anyway. No yellows, no pre-race practice session, rampant non-preventable cheats, etc. John "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_zAV8.580654$%[email hidden]... > Ditto on hopes for a second shot from the guys at MGI. Heat was a great > game IMHO, with only a few niggles and a lack of support from thepublishers > (as opposed to the developers) that kept it from being more successful.MGI > were a great help to the community in making Heat more mod-friendly withthe > patches. As for its MP, though it was more demanding of bandwidth thanPapy > sims, if you had good connections you could bump and bang online with a > dozen or so cars just like offline. Some of the most intense andenjoyable > online racing I've had was with Thomas Heineman's DTM mod, leaning oneach > other out of the turns & scraping fenders halfway down the straights at > converted tracks like Brno, Mugello and Donington. Looked like a bunchof

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> BTCC whacko's out there... :-) > > Cheers, > > SB > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > Well, I'll never be convinced otherwise anyway, but who cares :) I > still > > > believe GPL and it's fanbase would be dead without it's multi ability, > and > > > in terms of Heat, I meant the original stock car version, and it's

dead

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> as > > > Enron stock. > > > > I'm not actually disagreeing with you, just saying that I think GPL > > would have had a large fan base even without MP due to the fact that it > > takes a special interest to overcome the large step it was to go from > > ICR2 or N2 to the physics model of GPL, and all this to be able to run > > around in F1 cars from 1967 ? > > > > And as for NHeat, I totally agree, who would want to run around in that > > compared to N4 and NR2002, but I still think NHeat had a lot of promise > > and I hope they come out with a 2nd effort > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wMCV8.303151$[email hidden]... > > "David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > the fact the game is so good has made it survive not VROC...VROC wasonly

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> > made as its so good :) > > > The greatness of the title did indeed encourage VROC, but without Vroc > and GPLrank, there would be no community today. Just a few lost souls who > hadn't seen real daylight in 4 years. > dave henrie > >

but there is VROC and a community, without VROC im sure someone would have spent the time making alter-VROC no doubt, as the editing and program writing is just as fearse as ever, infact far more so that the early '99 days. If a title has true longevity this will always happen....just a games people play 4 years after release are few and far between and evidently build more dicated communities....

On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:12:52 GMT, JM <[email hidden]> wrote: >I don't think Papy's "physics" are in any way flexible at all. That's not >necessarily true, but it's an opinion I've formed based on previous >discussions. Yeah. Taking an amazing open-wheeled engine and building a stockcar sim around it wasn't an example of flexibility. For that matter, Alison Hine has a Cobra mod for GPL that she races and in her opinion it seems to be 100% accurate to the real Cobra that she races in club events. I'm really not sure what aspect of Papy's sim engine aren't flexible. They started out doing open wheeled cars with both of their engines, and ported them to tin-tops with equal success. I am sure Nascar Thunder 2003 will be fun just as Nascar Heat was fun. I wouldn't bet on it being a Papy killer in the least. Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 17:12:52 GMT, JM > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I don't think Papy's "physics" are in any way flexible at all. That'snot

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> >necessarily true, but it's an opinion I've formed based on previous > >discussions. > > Yeah. Taking an amazing open-wheeled engine and building a stockcar > sim around it wasn't an example of flexibility. > > For that matter, Alison Hine has a Cobra mod for GPL that she races > and in her opinion it seems to be 100% accurate to the real Cobra that > she races in club events. > > I'm really not sure what aspect of Papy's sim engine aren't flexible. > They started out doing open wheeled cars with both of their engines, > and ported them to tin-tops with equal success. > > I am sure Nascar Thunder 2003 will be fun just as Nascar Heat was fun. > I wouldn't bet on it being a Papy killer in the least. > > Jason

Exactly. John

Schooner..... I "mentioned it" because its in the article I refer too. But, it wasn't germane to the "point" of my post.....so I didn't go into details. I agree I didn't word it very well....and it was distracting. My mistake. Tom "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FljV8.34074$[email hidden]...

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> So you just mentioned it with nothing to back it up to trying and start an > issue? > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dbjV8.421851$cQ3.28734@sccrnsc01... > > Figured many wouldn't agree with that....so I didn't go into it (Papy's > > vulnerability wasn't germane to the post anyway). > > > > TP > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:B82V8.9223$[email hidden]... > > > >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > >Papy has left themselves vulnerable I think....but that's another > > > > story. > > > > > > > > > Well I stopped reading right after that line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <l3kV8.12614$[email hidden]>, "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> writes: >You mean NR2002 has AI for offline racing? LOL! :) Didn't know that feature >was included...that's the problem with NR2002, there is the faction that >could care less if there even was an AI and those that think the AI is the >only way to race it. > I'd wager that MOST people buy the game to race against the AI. The multiplayer fans here are just a small subset of total purchasers... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett My .sig file is in the shop for repairs... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.