RASCAR: Vegas Caution Recap

All in all, it was a pretty clean race with (by my count) only six cautions for the entire race. Here's my caution recap and general comments (OOTRD="One Of Them Racin' Deals"). I'm not trying to be mean spirited, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Ask anyone that ran in IGPS, and they will tell you that I usually hit it pretty close to the mark: Caution 1 - Lap 3 - Car #1 and car #83 in turn 3 ------------------------------------------------ #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving. Caution 2 - Lap 32 - Car #43 and #7 in turn 1 --------------------------------------------- 43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD). NOTE: After subsequent pit stop, 7 car made what I consider to be a provocative move by passing other cars at a dangerous rate of speed relative to the pace line, and ran up on the bumper of 43 (no contact was made). This IMHO, is an over-aggressive move and would be worthy of a penalty in any serious league, especially considering the nature of the contact). Keep the emotions OFF THE TRACK. Caution 3 - Lap 38 - Car 96 and car 7 in turn 1 ----------------------------------------------- Part 1: 96 car came down on 7 car after 7 car made it 3-wide as the pack approached turn 1. 7 car was making a "stupid passing move", and was in my opinion being over-aggressive considering the large pack of cars he was in. The 17 car rear-ended the 83 car as both cars went high to avoid the accident. Fault goes to 7 for creating the situation (overly aggressive driving), and fault goes to 96 for not paying more attention to his spotter and/or mirrors. Part 2: 7 car punted 8 car while racing back to the yellow in turn 3. Fault goes to 7 car for an overly-aggressive driving style. No other cars were involved. Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight -------------------------------------------------------- 21 came up on 37 car while overtaking, sending 37 into wall. No other cars were involved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). Caution 5 - Lap 79 - Car 21 and car 76 on front straight -------------------------------------------------------- 21 car rear-ended 76 car when 76 slowed more than expected on the approach to turn 1. My guess is that 21 car kind of expected 76 car to movce to a higher line and when 76 didn't do that, 21 car made contact. To be fair, 21 car was probably a little frustrated because 43 car had side-bumped him while passing him in turn 3. 21 car scraped wall but no damage was apparent as a result of that contact. No other cars were ibnvolved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). Caution 6 - Lap 95 - Car 167 and car 21 in turn 3 ------------------------------------------------- 167 was beside 21 in turn 3, and made contact due to a side-warp. 167 had been side-warping since at least lap 74, which made approaching and passing him dicey at best. The pass would have been a clean one if not for the warp. Fault goes to 167 (OOTRD). In General ---------- I thought this was a pretty clean race with the best racing (once again) happening between the cars racing for 3rd back to about 6th I'm dissappointed with Ginger's demonstration of frustration on the track, and feel that if he had calmed down a little, and thought about what he was doing instead of blindly charging to the front, he would have avoided the late-race accidents he caused, and he would still have finished well. Some of the really fast drivers learned about tire management - again. Running fast usually means that you eat up your tires a lot faster. I was able to repeatedly overtake drivers that were much faster by not being overly aggressive when approaching/navigating turns. It's nice to be fast and be in the lead, but the only lap that counts is the last one. If I had 6 more laps (that's how much gas I had left), I'm confident that I would have overtaken and passed Ginger because he was simply driving to hard and chewing up his tires. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Right on the money John, I feel like a winner as my number 1 goal was not to _cause_ any yellows :-) #37 -- Edward Commissioner Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA) "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > All in all, it was a pretty clean race with (by my count) only six > cautions for the entire race. Here's my caution recap and general > comments (OOTRD="One Of Them Racin' Deals"). I'm not trying to be mean > spirited, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Ask anyone that ran > in IGPS, and they will tell you that I usually hit it pretty close to > the mark: > > Caution 1 - Lap 3 - Car #1 and car #83 in turn 3 > ------------------------------------------------ > #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, > despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. > That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. > The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. > Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving. > > Caution 2 - Lap 32 - Car #43 and #7 in turn 1 > --------------------------------------------- > 43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully > passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of > speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the > wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD). > > NOTE: After subsequent pit stop, 7 car made what I consider to > be a provocative move by passing other cars at a dangerous rate > of speed relative to the pace line, and ran up on the bumper > of 43 (no contact was made). This IMHO, is an over-aggressive > move and would be worthy of a penalty in any serious league, > especially considering the nature of the contact). Keep the > emotions OFF THE TRACK. > > Caution 3 - Lap 38 - Car 96 and car 7 in turn 1 > ----------------------------------------------- > Part 1: 96 car came down on 7 car after 7 car made it 3-wide as the pack > approached turn 1. 7 car was making a "stupid passing move", and was in > my opinion being over-aggressive considering the large pack of cars he > was in. The 17 car rear-ended the 83 car as both cars went high to > avoid the accident. Fault goes to 7 for creating the situation (overly > aggressive driving), and fault goes to 96 for not paying more attention > to his spotter and/or mirrors. > > Part 2: 7 car punted 8 car while racing back to the yellow in turn 3. > Fault goes to 7 car for an overly-aggressive driving style. No other > cars were involved. > > Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight > -------------------------------------------------------- > 21 came up on 37 car while overtaking, sending 37 into wall. No other > cars were involved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). > > Caution 5 - Lap 79 - Car 21 and car 76 on front straight > -------------------------------------------------------- > 21 car rear-ended 76 car when 76 slowed more than expected on the > approach to turn 1. My guess is that 21 car kind of expected 76 car to > movce to a higher line and when 76 didn't do that, 21 car made contact. > To be fair, 21 car was probably a little frustrated because 43 car had > side-bumped him while passing him in turn 3. 21 car scraped wall but no > damage was apparent as a result of that contact. No other cars were > ibnvolved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). > > Caution 6 - Lap 95 - Car 167 and car 21 in turn 3 > ------------------------------------------------- > 167 was beside 21 in turn 3, and made contact due to a side-warp. 167 > had been side-warping since at least lap 74, which made approaching and > passing him dicey at best. The pass would have been a clean one if not > for the warp. Fault goes to 167 (OOTRD). > > In General > ---------- > I thought this was a pretty clean race with the best racing (once again) > happening between the cars racing for 3rd back to about 6th I'm > dissappointed with Ginger's demonstration of frustration on the track, > and feel that if he had calmed down a little, and thought about what he > was doing instead of blindly charging to the front, he would have > avoided the late-race accidents he caused, and he would still have > finished well. > > Some of the really fast drivers learned about tire management - again. > Running fast usually means that you eat up your tires a lot faster. I > was able to repeatedly overtake drivers that were much faster by not > being overly aggressive when approaching/navigating turns. It's nice to > be fast and be in the lead, but the only lap that counts is the last > one. If I had 6 more laps (that's how much gas I had left), I'm > confident that I would have overtaken and passed Ginger because he was > simply driving to hard and chewing up his tires. > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

Simmons, if your gonna post recaps how about giving out a fn email addy to respond to.. "Edward C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:N9ET8.22468$[email hidden]... > Right on the money John, I feel like a winner as my number 1 goal was notto

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> _cause_ any yellows :-) #37 > > -- > Edward > Commissioner > Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA) > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > All in all, it was a pretty clean race with (by my count) only six > > cautions for the entire race. Here's my caution recap and general > > comments (OOTRD="One Of Them Racin' Deals"). I'm not trying to be mean > > spirited, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Ask anyone that ran > > in IGPS, and they will tell you that I usually hit it pretty close to > > the mark: > > > > Caution 1 - Lap 3 - Car #1 and car #83 in turn 3 > > ------------------------------------------------ > > #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, > > despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. > > That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. > > The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. > > Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving. > > > > Caution 2 - Lap 32 - Car #43 and #7 in turn 1 > > --------------------------------------------- > > 43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully > > passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of > > speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the > > wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD). > > > > NOTE: After subsequent pit stop, 7 car made what I consider to > > be a provocative move by passing other cars at a dangerous rate > > of speed relative to the pace line, and ran up on the bumper > > of 43 (no contact was made). This IMHO, is an over-aggressive > > move and would be worthy of a penalty in any serious league, > > especially considering the nature of the contact). Keep the > > emotions OFF THE TRACK. > > > > Caution 3 - Lap 38 - Car 96 and car 7 in turn 1 > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Part 1: 96 car came down on 7 car after 7 car made it 3-wide as the pack > > approached turn 1. 7 car was making a "stupid passing move", and was in > > my opinion being over-aggressive considering the large pack of cars he > > was in. The 17 car rear-ended the 83 car as both cars went high to > > avoid the accident. Fault goes to 7 for creating the situation (overly > > aggressive driving), and fault goes to 96 for not paying more attention > > to his spotter and/or mirrors. > > > > Part 2: 7 car punted 8 car while racing back to the yellow in turn 3. > > Fault goes to 7 car for an overly-aggressive driving style. No other > > cars were involved. > > > > Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > 21 came up on 37 car while overtaking, sending 37 into wall. No other > > cars were involved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). > > > > Caution 5 - Lap 79 - Car 21 and car 76 on front straight > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > 21 car rear-ended 76 car when 76 slowed more than expected on the > > approach to turn 1. My guess is that 21 car kind of expected 76 car to > > movce to a higher line and when 76 didn't do that, 21 car made contact. > > To be fair, 21 car was probably a little frustrated because 43 car had > > side-bumped him while passing him in turn 3. 21 car scraped wall but no > > damage was apparent as a result of that contact. No other cars were > > ibnvolved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). > > > > Caution 6 - Lap 95 - Car 167 and car 21 in turn 3 > > ------------------------------------------------- > > 167 was beside 21 in turn 3, and made contact due to a side-warp. 167 > > had been side-warping since at least lap 74, which made approaching and > > passing him dicey at best. The pass would have been a clean one if not > > for the warp. Fault goes to 167 (OOTRD). > > > > In General > > ---------- > > I thought this was a pretty clean race with the best racing (once again) > > happening between the cars racing for 3rd back to about 6th I'm > > dissappointed with Ginger's demonstration of frustration on the track, > > and feel that if he had calmed down a little, and thought about what he > > was doing instead of blindly charging to the front, he would have > > avoided the late-race accidents he caused, and he would still have > > finished well. > > > > Some of the really fast drivers learned about tire management - again. > > Running fast usually means that you eat up your tires a lot faster. I > > was able to repeatedly overtake drivers that were much faster by not > > being overly aggressive when approaching/navigating turns. It's nice to > > be fast and be in the lead, but the only lap that counts is the last > > one. If I had 6 more laps (that's how much gas I had left), I'm > > confident that I would have overtaken and passed Ginger because he was > > simply driving to hard and chewing up his tires. > > > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > >

John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Caution 5 - Lap 79 - Car 21 and car 76 on front straight > -------------------------------------------------------- > 21 car rear-ended 76 car when 76 slowed more than expected on the > approach to turn 1. My guess is that 21 car kind of expected 76 car to > movce to a higher line and when 76 didn't do that, 21 car made contact. > To be fair, 21 car was probably a little frustrated because 43 car had > side-bumped him while passing him in turn 3. 21 car scraped wall but no > damage was apparent as a result of that contact. No other cars were > ibnvolved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD).

Ah, that was me (76). I hadn't pitted since lap 32 or something, so my tires was wearing out. I had hoped lap 74-76 would be green because then all the leaders would have to pit during green and get a lap down, unfortunately there was a yellow on lap 74, and killed my strategy. So, at the restart, i found myself in second place (yay!) with 30 something laps old tires (noo!) with a lot of fast runners on fresh tires right behind me. And I never figured out the entrance to turn 3. That's probably the reason I slowed a bit too early, and because of my tire situation. I haven't checked the replay yet, but as I understood the situation, I got high into 3, got Colin inside and also another hotshoe on Colin's inside. And I got bumped into the wall. I gave Colin a lesson i Norwegian swearing words and said no problem :) Good clean and fun race apart from a certain hotshoe who did all sorts of silly stuff on me (#8) Olav

Why the "fn" attitude? Didn't you read the entire post? The answer you seek is in the original message. For the record, there's a couple of corrections I'd like to make: 1) #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" This should read as folows: #1 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" 2) Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight This should read as follows: Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 37 on front straight The only reason I posted this is because there was a sufficiently small number of cautions and I had a clear view of all of them. Once again, I merely stated the events as I saw them. If you're concerned that you're seen as making a stupid passing move, there's really nothing to be worried about. We ALL have made stupid passing moves in the past, and we will ALL continue to make them in the future. Hopefully, we'll be able to reduce the number of them in future events with some frank and open discussion of the ones we can identify. If you see your incident any different, by all means, say so. I have been wrong in my interpretation of incidents before. In all fairness though, I *did* mention both instances of contact I had during the race, even though one of them did not (IMHO, directly contribute to bringing out a caution flag. This is certainly nothing to get that worked up about. In article <tXHT8.361$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Simmons, if your gonna post recaps how about giving out a fn email addy to > respond to.. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your email addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew publicly then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end up at a "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What fn "Contents" frame???? heh.. My thoughts, replay available. A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will make bad choices trying to get away. B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me get a run down the backstretch.. C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying to make my intentions known. D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along side his car low inside lane, near line. E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by side. Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the final result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!! Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or call it "stupid" isn't fair either. If the situation was reversed I would have stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck. Mitch "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Why the "fn" attitude? Didn't you read the entire post? > > The answer you seek is in the original message. > > For the record, there's a couple of corrections I'd like to make: > > 1) #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" > > This should read as folows: > > #1 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" > > 2) Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight > > This should read as follows: > > Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 37 on front straight > > The only reason I posted this is because there was a sufficiently small > number of cautions and I had a clear view of all of them. Once again, I > merely stated the events as I saw them. > > If you're concerned that you're seen as making a stupid passing move, > there's really nothing to be worried about. We ALL have made stupid > passing moves in the past, and we will ALL continue to make them in the > future. Hopefully, we'll be able to reduce the number of them in future > events with some frank and open discussion of the ones we can identify. > > If you see your incident any different, by all means, say so. I have > been wrong in my interpretation of incidents before. In all fairness > though, I *did* mention both instances of contact I had during the race, > even though one of them did not (IMHO, directly contribute to bringing > out a caution flag. > > This is certainly nothing to get that worked up about. > > In article <tXHT8.361$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Simmons, if your gonna post recaps how about giving out a fn email addy

to

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> > respond to.. > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

In article <gNJT8.419$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your email > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew publicly > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end up at a > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What fn > "Contents" frame???? heh.. Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll re-arrange them. > My thoughts, replay available. > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will make bad > choices trying to get away. I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warping at all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a little different. > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me get a run > down the backstretch.. According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift point, sometimes he didn't. > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying to make > my intentions known. The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing off and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode), but it's worth it. > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along side > his car low inside lane, near line. I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all that different. > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by side. > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the final > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!! I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In the end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at that point. > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or call it > "stupid" isn't fair either. In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the one serving it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing move that I'm guilty of. > If the situation was reversed I would have > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck. Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of operation. > Mitch > -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

I like this idea of recapping on the yellows, and naming and shaming the culprits is a good deterrent when there is no banning taking place on what is essentially an open server. Also, seeing what others do wrong is a good way to learn how to do things 'right'. By the way, I include 'my' one here for posterity (#167). Sorry about the warping. My connection broke up around lap 74 far about 30 seconds (all the cars disappeared). Fortunately it was under a yellow and I just hit the apron until everybody reappeared. To me, everything seemed fine - all the cars were driving smoothly round the racetrack, but obviously I was warping. Somebody told me this during the race, and every time from then on somebody got inside of me, I let them go. On the pass in question, I was alongside all the way down the backstretch, and tried to get as low as I could to *avoid* a collision, hooked the apron and pushed up, *causing* the collision. I wouldn't have dived in, I just got a decent run off 2 and went with it. Warping must have made it even worse, as at one point I would have been right down low on the line, then suddenly warped right into #21. I think OOTRD is a fair assesment, although I continued unharmed and #21 was wrecked, so the outcome was certainly not fair. > Caution 6 - Lap 95 - Car 167 and car 21 in turn 3 > ------------------------------------------------- > 167 was beside 21 in turn 3, and made contact due to a side-warp. 167 > had been side-warping since at least lap 74, which made approaching and > passing him dicey at best. The pass would have been a clean one if not > for the warp. Fault goes to 167 (OOTRD).

All, Well, guess I need to comment. Wasn't going to but here it is. Part of the fun of racing online is the discussions afterward. So, here it goes....When I drive Vegas, I do not use the breaks. I slow down. This drive style put me in the top 5 for practice speeds, 3rd for qualifiing, and 2nd or 1st for the warmup laps. Also, this method prolongs the tires for longer runs and keeps the speeds consistent. The drawback is of course the hotfoots (number 1) who want to win in the first several laps. As for the number 1 car, my spotter was silent. Anybody can run there nose underneath someone. The real skill is making the pass clean. I am just sorry that the others were taken out because I couldnt get my blasted car stopped. The worst part is that I managed to get tangled up with the 17 car twice and wondered how that could have happend. The first time I couldnt stopped and got in his way, and the second time I initally thought it was another love tap. Now I know what really happened and everything is fine. The important thing to remember is that racing is a lot of fun and each of these tracks have their own personallity and your driving style will change accordingly. I used to hate Sears Point, but after last week, I know appreciate it even thought I never mastered it. I was really feeling good bout Vegas though. Grub "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <gNJT8.419$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your email > > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spewpublicly > > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end upat a

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> > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What fn > > "Contents" frame???? heh.. > > Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll > re-arrange them. > > > My thoughts, replay available. > > > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will make

bad

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> > choices trying to get away. > > I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warping at > all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a > little different. > > > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me get a

run > > down the backstretch.. > > According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift > point, sometimes he didn't. > > > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying tomake

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> > my intentions known. > > The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the > inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing off > and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter > settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode), > but it's worth it. > > > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along

side > > his car low inside lane, near line. > > I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all > that different. > > > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side byside. > > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to thefinal > > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!! > > I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In the > end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at that point. > > > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or callit

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> > "stupid" isn't fair either. > > In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid > passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the one serving > it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at > some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing > move that I'm guilty of. > > > If the situation was reversed I would have > > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck. > > Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you > using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can > get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of > operation. > > > Mitch > > > > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

John, i know that to you i am "just some smack from the UK" (your words) but i feel your statements about some of the facts are misleading and unfair, not to mention very conservative where your mistakes are involved. I have added my view to some of the incidents you mention below... "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> All in all, it was a pretty clean race with (by my count) only six > cautions for the entire race. Here's my caution recap and general > comments (OOTRD="One Of Them Racin' Deals"). I'm not trying to be mean > spirited, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Ask anyone that ran > in IGPS, and they will tell you that I usually hit it pretty close to > the mark: > > Caution 1 - Lap 3 - Car #1 and car #83 in turn 3 > ------------------------------------------------ > #83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, > despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. > That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. > The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. > Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving. > > Caution 2 - Lap 32 - Car #43 and #7 in turn 1 > --------------------------------------------- > 43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully > passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of > speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the > wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD). >

#43 would be John Simmons and #7 would be me. You make it sound like you had put your car alonside mine and slightly infront when you say "43 overtook 7", from my replay its looks like you picked up a little extra speed from my draft and simply drove into my rear, at no point did you get alonside or infront.

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> NOTE: After subsequent pit stop, 7 car made what I consider to > be a provocative move by passing other cars at a dangerous rate > of speed relative to the pace line, and ran up on the bumper > of 43 (no contact was made). This IMHO, is an over-aggressive > move and would be worthy of a penalty in any serious league, > especially considering the nature of the contact). Keep the > emotions OFF THE TRACK. >

After i had pitted to repair some of the extensive damage to my car caused by John punting me into the wall i did indeed pass a couple of cars to get behind John, though i see nothing provacative or dangerous in the manner that i passed them. The reason was to get a good look at the paintjob on John's car, John has punted me in the rear during my last three rascar races and i felt during the yellow was a safe time to have a good look at the car i most need to avoid. I cant deny that being repeatedly punted in the rear by John has worn my temper a little thin, but i wouldnt allow myself to do any thing in rascar that i wouldnt do in any of the serious leagues i compete in.

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> Caution 3 - Lap 38 - Car 96 and car 7 in turn 1 > ----------------------------------------------- > Part 1: 96 car came down on 7 car after 7 car made it 3-wide as the pack > approached turn 1. 7 car was making a "stupid passing move", and was in > my opinion being over-aggressive considering the large pack of cars he > was in. The 17 car rear-ended the 83 car as both cars went high to > avoid the accident. Fault goes to 7 for creating the situation (overly > aggressive driving), and fault goes to 96 for not paying more attention > to his spotter and/or mirrors. >

My replay shows that i made it 3-wide just after the exit of turn4 and down the straight, and that it was infact only 2-wide by the time we were approaching turn1. I took the low line and held it and would have been able to (and infact did) hold the low line around turns1&2. Overtaking by its nature is an aggressive act, but i dont think the move was either stupid or over-aggressive. I did say sorry to Neil both after the incident and after the race, and i will say sorry to Neil again now, Sorry Neil. > Part 2: 7 car punted 8 car while racing back to the yellow in turn 3. > Fault goes to 7 car for an overly-aggressive driving style. No other > cars were involved. >Again, John paints a very different picture to what i see on my replay, i was racing with #21 to my outside while catching Phasor very quickly, Phasor held the low line and the option to go high around him was ruled out by the #21 car occupying that space, i had no option except to brake. My replay shows i slowed in time and no contact was made between the front of my car and the rear of Phasors. In fact my replay shows Phasor loosing grip at the rear and starting to spin, as result he slows and its at this point that any contact is made. I would be interested in seeing Phasors replay of the incident, but my bet is that this was warp induced. I didnt get the chance to say this to phasor after the race so i will take the opportunity to say sorry to Phasor now, Sorry Phasor. Assuming that i did indeed punt Phasor i dont think its fair that its described as overly-aggressive, especially after John punting me is only described as one of those racing deals.

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> Caution 4 - Lap 74 - Car 21 and car 27 on front straight > -------------------------------------------------------- > 21 came up on 37 car while overtaking, sending 37 into wall. No other > cars were involved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). > > Caution 5 - Lap 79 - Car 21 and car 76 on front straight > -------------------------------------------------------- > 21 car rear-ended 76 car when 76 slowed more than expected on the > approach to turn 1. My guess is that 21 car kind of expected 76 car to > movce to a higher line and when 76 didn't do that, 21 car made contact. > To be fair, 21 car was probably a little frustrated because 43 car had > side-bumped him while passing him in turn 3. 21 car scraped wall but no > damage was apparent as a result of that contact. No other cars were > ibnvolved. Fault goes to 21 (OOTRD). >

Again, when i watch the replay of the incident between Johns #43 car and Colins #21 car i see a different picture to the story John describes. What i see is John diving to the low line forcing colin to stay high, John goes in too fast and cant hold the low line and slides up the track into the side of Colin, Colin does his best to avoid contact with he wall. I guess thats just another one of them racing deals as opposed to stupid or over-aggressive driving.

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> Caution 6 - Lap 95 - Car 167 and car 21 in turn 3 > ------------------------------------------------- > 167 was beside 21 in turn 3, and made contact due to a side-warp. 167 > had been side-warping since at least lap 74, which made approaching and > passing him dicey at best. The pass would have been a clean one if not > for the warp. Fault goes to 167 (OOTRD). > > In General > ---------- > I thought this was a pretty clean race with the best racing (once again) > happening between the cars racing for 3rd back to about 6th I'm > dissappointed with Ginger's demonstration of frustration on the track, > and feel that if he had calmed down a little, and thought about what he > was doing instead of blindly charging to the front, he would have > avoided the late-race accidents he caused, and he would still have > finished well. >

I also though this was another great rascar race, but i think the best racing was around zugzug who kept it clean and fast the whole race, congratulations again on the win Zugzug. I think the reason John has the oppinion that the best racing was between 3rd back to 6th is because those are the positions he held during the race, the drivers around him may have a different view of the quality of the racing for those positions. I have to say that after watching the replay of Johns race i'm supprised he didnt finish 2nd when you consider the cars he bumped out of his path. Involved in incidents i certainly was, its debatable that i was the cause as John says. It could be argued that, being as those incidents occured during the restart after the wreck that John had caused to bring out the yellow, that he is in some small part responsible. Depends on how fair and objective the viewer is i suppose.

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> Some of the really fast drivers learned about tire management - again. > Running fast usually means that you eat up your tires a lot faster. I > was able to repeatedly overtake drivers that were much faster by not > being overly aggressive when approaching/navigating turns. It's nice to > be fast and be in the lead, but the only lap that counts is the last > one. If I had 6 more laps (that's how much gas I had left), I'm > confident that I would have overtaken and passed Ginger because he was > simply driving to hard and chewing up his tires. >

I think John is massaging his own ego again here, i could argue in response that i raced a few people to the point that thier tyres were abused by the time i was able to make a pass stick, by which time they were easy prey for John. Considering the damage caused to my car after John put me into the wall i was lucky to be running as high as i was, i tried to hold zugzug off during the last 10 laps and really enjoyed the hard racing with him. But zugzugs car was undamaged and faster than my own, and he was definatley the cleanest and quickest driver on the track that day, when he made his pass on me for the lead he made it good and made it stick, i tried to make a pass the following lap but zug was too fast for me, i had no option but to settle for 2nd knowing the best man had won, Congrats Zug. I dont aggree that i had driven too hard, i know that my tyres were still in good condition, and its my oppinion that i would have stayed ahead of John for the remaining 10 laps of fuel left in my tank. Just a few thoughts, oppinions and views of my own to ballance those expressed by John. Cheers Ginger

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> > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

> Again, John paints a very different picture to what i see on my replay, i > was racing with #21 to my outside while catching Phasor very quickly,Phasor > held the low line and the option to go high around him was ruled out bythe > #21 car occupying that space, i had no option except to brake. My replay > shows i slowed in time and no contact was made between the front of my car > and the rear of Phasors. In fact my replay shows Phasor loosing grip atthe > rear and starting to spin, as result he slows and its at this point thatany > contact is made. I would be interested in seeing Phasors replay of the > incident, but my bet is that this was warp induced. I didnt get thechance > to say this to phasor after the race so i will take the opportunity to say > sorry to Phasor now, Sorry Phasor. Assuming that i did indeed punt Phasori > dont think its fair that its described as overly-aggressive, especially > after John punting me is only described as one of those racing deals. No apology needed as far as I'm concerned, my replay shows you warping into me, and it looked like a one-time deal - you weren't warping before or after the contact. I didn't get loose in the corner though. -Phasor

In article <afohod$76m$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John, i know that to you i am "just some smack from the UK" (your words) but > i feel your statements about some of the facts are misleading and unfair, > not to mention very conservative where your mistakes are involved. I have > added my view to some of the incidents you mention below... Man, don't you people read the whole freakin message?

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> > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Caution 2 - Lap 32 - Car #43 and #7 in turn 1 > > --------------------------------------------- > > 43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully > > passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of > > speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the > > wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD). > > > #43 would be John Simmons and #7 would be me. You make it sound like you had > put your car alonside mine and slightly infront when you say "43 overtook > 7", from my replay its looks like you picked up a little extra speed from my > draft and simply drove into my rear, at no point did you get alonside or > infront.

There is no draft at Vegas. I didn't pick up any speed from anything you were doing. I was happy just to follow you around the track and was not attempting a pass.

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> > NOTE: After subsequent pit stop, 7 car made what I consider to > > be a provocative move by passing other cars at a dangerous rate > > of speed relative to the pace line, and ran up on the bumper > > of 43 (no contact was made). This IMHO, is an over-aggressive > > move and would be worthy of a penalty in any serious league, > > especially considering the nature of the contact). Keep the > > emotions OFF THE TRACK. > > > > After i had pitted to repair some of the extensive damage to my car > > caused by John punting me into the wall

If you take the time to look at the replay again, and compare the speeds of our cars, you'll find that you were doing 138 mph, and i was doing 139 mph at the time we touched. I would hardly call it a "punt" in that case. > > i did indeed pass a couple > > of cars to get behind John, though i see nothing provacative or > > dangerous in the manner that i passed them. The reason was to get > > a good look at the paintjob on John's car, Passing other cars during the caution was not what I was talking about. Charging up on my bumper was what I was talking about, and I honestly doubt that yuou were just trying to "get a good look at the back of" my car. > > John has punted me in > > the rear during my last three rascar races and i felt during the > > yellow was a safe time to have a good look at the car i most need > > to avoid. Now I've got to go back and look at the last three races that both of us were in to see if this is true. It seems to me that you're generally faster than most of us and the only time I see you is in the F2 display. I honestly don't remember "punting" you in any other races > > I cant deny that being repeatedly punted in the rear by > > John has worn my temper a little thin, but i wouldnt allow myself > > to do any thing in rascar that i wouldnt do in any of the serious > > leagues i compete in. Well, your actions at the restart indicate that you were driving mad and over-aggressively. Going three-wide into turn 1 and taking out the 96 car, and then while racing back to the yellow, you did pretty much the same thing to the 8 car that I didto you, only the speed differences were a little more dramatic, indicating to me that you simply over-drove the turn. I'm off to look at the last three races we were both in and see if there was any contact between the two of us. I'll be back to comment later. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Alrightie. I looked at The following replays: ------------------ Sears Point (06/22) - Despite the fact that it's widely known that "shit happens" at Sears Point, yeah, I bumped you in turn 4 (90-degree right turn with asphalt run-off area). In my defense, I lost 2nd gear at the beginning of that lap, and had screw up entry to turn 4 by letting you by. You took longer than I expected to get by me, and my brakes were clearly locked up long before we ultimately made contact. You also got back by me (again, I made the pass easy for you) and you ultimately won that race). For the record, that was my only sheet-metal contact in the race. Michigan - you did not attend Dover - I did not attend Pocono - No contact between us at all. Indianapolis - last lap melee on the front straight, the accident was already fully underway by the time I got there and you had already been hit by someone else. You most certainly can't count that one because EVERYBODY wrecked on that accident. ----------------- I didn't go any further back because I now have to go to work. I'm sure if you took the time to review even earlier replays, you'll find contact and even us running close to each other is an infrequent if even non- existant occurrance. I stand by my claim that you weren't "studying" anything when you ran up on me during the caution. Your actions (at least in MY view) during the restart prove that point as you plainly exhibited a desire to regain your pre-"punt" position at all costs (wrecking two other cars in the process). Lastly (and only because you've put me in a sour mood), it's hard to take you real serious when you change your ID every race and use purile little word games to form new and exciting words like "Burd_Turglar", "Duff_Miver", "Betty_Swalls", "Wantric_Tank", "Piff_Stenis", "Jenni_Tallitch", "Master_Bates", "Mudah_Faqir", "Cunni_Lingus", or any of the rest of your childish little names. Why don't you grow up and use your real fuckin name, or at least something decent, and use the same one every week? I, for one, am not amused. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Honestly John maybe you should just knock off the un-constructive unfair analysis eh?? I got the same feeling that Ginger did regarding your fairness when critiquing someone else yet overlooking or minimizing your incidents. Each replay can look drastically different yet your analysis is quite different than what I see/saw. If ya wanna pick in a fun constructive way thats different... Mitch "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Alrightie. I looked at The following replays:

Actually I would have to agree with this completely after reading these two statements: "#83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving" And then this one: "43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD)" Both could be construed as either the first scenerio which was described as a "Stupid passing move" or as the second one, which was described as a "tap" at a "rate of speed that was higher than anticipated". John if you want to be critical of others you should be just as critical of yourself, and that was not how I had read it. Just FYI Now as for someone holding a "grudge" from race to race as it sounds like someone else had done and let it get the better of them, John is right, in his own way in saying leave the emotions off of the track. Although without emotion we would not be human. I say by all means race with emotion, but try to keep some of the more disruptible ones in check. - Isotrip� "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wXZT8.560$[email hidden]... > Honestly John maybe you should just knock off the un-constructive unfair > analysis eh?? I got the same feeling that Ginger did regarding your > fairness when critiquing someone else yet overlooking or minimizing your > incidents. Each replay can look drastically different yet your analysisis > quite different than what I see/saw. > > If ya wanna pick in a fun constructive way thats different... > > Mitch

In article <wXZT8.560$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Honestly John maybe you should just knock off the un-constructive unfair > analysis eh?? I got the same feeling that Ginger did regarding your > fairness when critiquing someone else yet overlooking or minimizing your > incidents. Each replay can look drastically different yet your analysis is > quite different than what I see/saw. I didn't overlook my own incidents nor did I minimize them. Any idiot could see that my contact with ginger was incidental and not a result of me trying to pass him. I also mentioned my (non-caution causing) contact with Colin, and even attributed his subsequent incident with frustration that was probably a direct rsult of that contact. How was that minimizing anything? As far as your pass goes (which I'm sure you're referring to), even YOU admitted that you made an error in judgement in trying the pass, so how was my assessment not fair or accurate? I simply gave the pass the label I thought it deserved. > If ya wanna pick in a fun constructive way thats different... It was constructive with no emotion injected in it at all. I thought I was pretty close to the mark myself, and nobody has pointed out any real errors in my original statement yet, short of the outright lies spewed by Ginger about my propensity for punting him which I think I disproved rather handily. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <3d208b0b$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Actually I would have to agree with this completely after reading these two > statements: > > "#83 tried what I call a "stupid passing move" by diving below car #83, > despite the fact that 83 had started his move to the apex of the turn. > That early in the race, the pass was ill-advised and over-aggressive. > The 17 car was a victim of the crash through no fauilt of his own. > Fault goes to #1 for overly agressive driving"

And you HONESTLY didn't think it was an overly aggressive act, irredargdless of the stage of the race we were at?

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> And then this one: > > "43 had been following 7 for about 20 laps, both cars successfully > passing other cars for position. 43 overtook 7 at a higher rate of > speed than anticipated and tapped 7 in the turn, sending 7 into the > wall. No other cars involved. Fault goes to #43 (OOTRD)" > > Both could be construed as either the first scenerio which was described as > a "Stupid passing move" or as the second one, which was described as a "tap" > at a "rate of speed that was higher than anticipated". John if you want to > be critical of others you should be just as critical of yourself, and that > was not how I had read it.

Did you HONESTLY think I was trying to pass him? Did you even watch the replay before commenting? It doesn't sound like it. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3d208b0b$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > And you HONESTLY didn't think it was an overly aggressive act, > irredargdless of the stage of the race we were at? No what _I_ was referring to John, is that while his move may have been stupid, so was yours for not being completely aware of your surroundings on the track, IE: BOTH were stupid moves IMO. > Did you HONESTLY think I was trying to pass him? I honestly could care LESS if you were trying to pass him or not that was not my point. You ADMITTED you came up on him at a speed higher than "anticipated" and then "Tapped" him, Maybe next time you will pay more attention to your surroundings on the track. Plain and simple. Like I said before, if you want to be critical of others you should be JUST as critical of YOURSELF! - Isotrip�

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Alrightie. I looked at The following replays: > > ------------------ > > Sears Point (06/22) - Despite the fact that it's widely known that "shit > happens" at Sears Point, yeah, I bumped you in turn 4 (90-degree right > turn with asphalt run-off area). In my defense, I lost 2nd gear at the > beginning of that lap, and had screw up entry to turn 4 by letting you > by. You took longer than I expected to get by me, and my brakes were > clearly locked up long before we ultimately made contact.

That would be because i braked in good time to safely make the turn and give you plenty of room at the apex, i left more than enough room for us to take the bend side-by-side, you didnt get anywhere near the apex though prob because you went in too hot. You hit my rear and spun me 180degs to face any oncomming traffic. >You also got > back by me (again, I made the pass easy for you) "easy"...you could call it that, i would rather say parked in the kittylitter. >and you ultimately won > that race). For the record, that was my only sheet-metal contact in the > race. > > Michigan - you did not attend Agreed > > Dover - I did not attend Agreed > > Pocono - No contact between us at all. Please check your replay of Ponocio again at Lap10 and refresh your memory a little. > > Indianapolis - last lap melee on the front straight, the accident was > already fully underway by the time I got there and you had already been > hit by someone else. You most certainly can't count that one because > EVERYBODY wrecked on that accident. Indy is too far back, Pocono is as far back as we need to go.

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> > ----------------- > > I didn't go any further back because I now have to go to work. I'm sure > if you took the time to review even earlier replays, you'll find contact > and even us running close to each other is an infrequent if even non- > existant occurrance.

I dont really need to go back to earlier replays, i'm sure you are a recent problem for me. > > I stand by my claim that you weren't "studying" anything when you ran up > on me during the caution. I also stand by my claim, and could elaborate as to what i thinking at the time,but i wont change my story as the truth is always easier to remember. You dont have to believe a word i say and you clearly dont, but i do wonder what you think i was doing or what i was going to do ??? >Your actions (at least in MY view) during the > restart prove that point as you plainly exhibited a desire to regain > your pre-"punt" position at all costs (wrecking two other cars in the > process). My actions prove nothing except that i took advantage of the oportunitys presented to me at the restart, i wasnt the only person there who exhibited a desire to improve thier postion ( common sense would suggest the only driver satisfied with his position would have been the leader ) its worth mentioning that neither of the other two drivers hold me responsible, ( though my unreserved appologies to both of them still stands ).

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> > Lastly (and only because you've put me in a sour mood), it's hard to > take you real serious when you change your ID every race and use purile > little word games to form new and exciting words like "Burd_Turglar", > "Duff_Miver", "Betty_Swalls", "Wantric_Tank", "Piff_Stenis", > "Jenni_Tallitch", "Master_Bates", "Mudah_Faqir", "Cunni_Lingus", or any > of the rest of your childish little names.

Now i get it, you just plain dont like me, and this dislike must have been festering within you for some time now, though i dont see this as justification for your unfairness to me both on and off the track lately. I dont see that changing my ID from race to race should present any problems ( certainly nothing for you to get upset about ), i race in rascar under the same #7 every time and i use the same .cup.car file that is registered and on both your website and the Rascar forum at RaceSimCentral , i have done nothing in rascar that i feel i should be ashamed of and have been prepared to say sorry for my involvement in any incidents, whichever name i have raced under i have shown due respect to my fellow members both on the track and in chat. Looking at the bigger picture here I guess i should expect in the future that i am used as your star witness in some push for a single ID, invitelist, banlist etc etc and that at the moment you are just laying the foundations, a long shot maybe but anticipation is a drivers skill. > Why don't you grow up and > use your real fuckin name, I dont think i am the one being infantile here, i cant use my real name due to reasons of national security and having signed the official secrets act....i could tell you, but then i would have to llik you. > or at least something decent, and use the > same one every week? Fine, i choose to race under the name Dick Trickle. >I, for one, am not amused. Clearly, though i fear you have sunk alot lower than simply not amused. The names i use are for my amusement only, should anyone else should find them amusing that would be a bonus, god forbid that anyone might even find some of them funny eh John. Cheers Ginger

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <wXZT8.560$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > It was constructive with no emotion injected in it at all. I thought I > was pretty close to the mark myself, and nobody has pointed out any real > errors in my original statement yet, short of the outright lies spewed > by Ginger about my propensity for punting him which I think I disproved > rather handily.

Just hold on a minute there matey...I still feel that your statements about some of the facts are misleading and unfair, not to mention very conservative where your mistakes are concerned, i now also think that your views are tainted by some longstanding dislike of me. I also said that you had punted me in the rear during my last three rascar races and i maintain that claim, take a look for yourself specificaly at..... Most recent at the top. Las Vegas- Lap32 punted up rear by John Sears Point- Lap18 punted up rear by John Michigan- i didnt race Pocono- Lap10 punted up the rear by John I have never been accused of spewing outright lies online before now by anyone and i hope the above Proves that in the last three rascar races that we have competed in you did indeed punt me up the rear as i stated. The more i read from you the more i am deeply offended. Its not difficult to understand why i am begining to think that you may be intentionaly wrecking me as punting me is becoming a bit of a habit for you. Far be it for me to say, but could you keep your dislike for me OFF THE TRACK (and out of the newsgroup) Cheers Ginger

In article <aft7bh$drn$[email hidden]>, "BowtNetterToDo" <[email hidden]> writes: >Looking at the bigger picture here I guess i should expect in the future >that i am used as your star witness in some push for a single ID, >invitelist, banlist etc etc and that at the moment you are just laying the >foundations, a long shot maybe but anticipation is a drivers skill. > The invite list was suggested to me LONG ago, by a totally different driver, for a totally different reason. John was not the first, and that suggestion had NOTHING to do with your racing ID. Having said that, I'm not entirely happy about your choices of ID either. I'm far from prudish, but the names you've been using strike ME as childish, and there may be others who feel the same way. I don't have *any* problem racing with you(I've run with you before in GPL). I know you're a good driver, and I also consider you a fair one. I have not review any of the incidents between you and John, so I can't comment on those.

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>> Why don't you grow up and >> use your real fuckin name, > >I dont think i am the one being infantile here, i cant use my real name due >to reasons of national security and having signed the official secrets >act....i could tell you, but then i would have to llik you. > >> or at least something decent, and use the >> same one every week? > >Fine, i choose to race under the name Dick Trickle.

That wouldn't bother me a bit.

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> >>I, for one, am not amused. > >Clearly, though i fear you have sunk alot lower than simply not amused. The >names i use are for my amusement only, should anyone else should find them >amusing that would be a bonus, god forbid that anyone might even find some >of them funny eh John.

Then I'm making a formal request for you to use a more 'normal' handle. I feel I have that right as race host... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Stolen vehicle! - Det,MI 1999 Blk Pontiac Grand Am SE, Lic# 947SLS, VIN:1G2NE12EXXM815898 carjacked from Grnfld/W. Chicago 6/30/02.Contact Officer Penn at 313-596-2850.Thanks Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <aft7bh$drn$[email hidden]>, "BowtNetterToDo" > <[email hidden]> writes: > >Clearly, though i fear you have sunk alot lower than simply not amused.The > >names i use are for my amusement only, should anyone else should findthem > >amusing that would be a bonus, god forbid that anyone might even findsome > >of them funny eh John. > > Then I'm making a formal request for you to use a more 'normal' handle. Ifeel > I have that right as race host... > Who cares what name he uses? I only know Ginger as a cartoon car on a computer screen, but he's probably my favorite RASCAR driver because he's clean and fast and seems like a funny, nice guy in chat. As for the incidents in the last race, they were ALL minor IMO. John did go overboard in his criticism of others, and did minimize his own incidents. Still, it's JUST sim racing so I don't see why these guys can't bicker and then keep on racing together. Let's keep things in perspective. David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" < > > Who cares what name he uses? I only know Ginger as a cartoon car on a > computer screen, but he's probably my favorite RASCAR driver because he's > clean and fast and seems like a funny, nice guy in chat. > > As for the incidents in the last race, they were ALL minor IMO. John didgo

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> overboard in his criticism of others, and did minimize his own incidents. > Still, it's JUST sim racing so I don't see why these guys can't bicker and > then keep on racing together. > > Let's keep things in perspective. > > David G Fisher >

Our TPTCC league just went through the same thing, asking drivers to use thier real names. So I said, ok, sorry about the confusion and signed it... Al Einstein. I 'used' to have several online names. I 'used' to race annonymously. But I found I had quite alot of trouble assoiciating our league messages with names like n@sc@rf@n so I started using my real name, here and online. Unfortunately, when I stink up the race, which happens fairly often, folks know who the slug was. dave henrie >

Grub, I was nearly completely under you (my front bumper to your front wheel wells). If you have the spotter turned off then it's still partially your fault. Situational awareness is your responsibility as a driver. I was all the way down on the bottom of the track (still going down at contact). If your spotter is off how is that my fault? Look left using a left view key then. Bottom line is you weren't going to let me by without making me take a risky manouvre. After I take one I get called stupid numerous times. BTW I did apologize during the race to try and diffuse any situations as we now have. Hotshoe...Me....LOL Mitch "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0qOT8.10884$[email hidden]... > All, > Well, guess I need to comment. Wasn't going to but here it is. Part of the > fun of racing online is the discussions afterward. So, here itgoes....When > I drive Vegas, I do not use the breaks. I slow down. This drive style putme > in the top 5 for practice speeds, 3rd for qualifiing, and 2nd or 1st forthe > warmup laps. Also, this method prolongs the tires for longer runs andkeeps > the speeds consistent. The drawback is of course the hotfoots (number 1)who > want to win in the first several laps. As for the number 1 car, my spotter > was silent. Anybody can run there nose underneath someone. The real skillis > making the pass clean. I am just sorry that the others were taken out > because I couldnt get my blasted car stopped. The worst part is that I > managed to get tangled up with the 17 car twice and wondered how thatcould > have happend. The first time I couldnt stopped and got in his way, and the > second time I initally thought it was another love tap. Now I know what > really happened and everything is fine. The important thing to remember is > that racing is a lot of fun and each of these tracks have their own > personallity and your driving style will change accordingly. I used tohate > Sears Point, but after last week, I know appreciate it even thought Inever

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> mastered it. I was really feeling good bout Vegas though. > Grub > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <gNJT8.419$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your

email

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> > > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew > publicly > > > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end up > at a > > > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> What fn > > > "Contents" frame???? heh.. > > > > Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll > > re-arrange them. > > > > > My thoughts, replay available. > > > > > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will make > bad > > > choices trying to get away. > > > > I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warping at > > all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a > > little different. > > > > > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting me get

a

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> run > > > down the backstretch.. > > > > According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift > > point, sometimes he didn't. > > > > > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying

to

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> make > > > my intentions known. > > > > The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the > > inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing off > > and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter > > settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode), > > but it's worth it. > > > > > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along > side > > > his car low inside lane, near line. > > > > I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all > > that different. > > > > > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by > side. > > > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the > final > > > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!! > > > > I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In the > > end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at that point. > > > > > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me or call > it > > > "stupid" isn't fair either. > > > > In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid > > passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the one serving > > it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at > > some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing > > move that I'm guilty of. > > > > > If the situation was reversed I would have > > > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck. > > > > Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you > > using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can > > get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of > > operation. > > > > > Mitch > > > > > > > > > -- > > ========================================================= > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > RASCAR Roster > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > ========================================================= > > >

No hard feelings here. My spotter was on, he just didnt say anything about you being at my rear wheel. We just had two different driving styles that all. Its my fault for overdriving the previous lap, and thus allowing you to move up. Thats racing. If you were at my front wheel well, believe me, I wouldnt have cut down. Never saw you . Never thought that you would stick your nose underneath like that. But hey, lets forget that race and look forward to Daytona. Its going to be great racing. Good luck on Saturday. grub "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:it%U8.1195$[email hidden]... > Grub, > > I was nearly completely under you (my front bumper to your front wheel > wells). If you have the spotter turned off then it's still partially your > fault. Situational awareness is your responsibility as a driver. I wasall > the way down on the bottom of the track (still going down at contact). If > your spotter is off how is that my fault? Look left using a left view key > then. Bottom line is you weren't going to let me by without making metake > a risky manouvre. After I take one I get called stupid numerous times.BTW > I did apologize during the race to try and diffuse any situations as wenow

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> have. > > Hotshoe...Me....LOL > > Mitch > > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0qOT8.10884$[email hidden]... > > All, > > Well, guess I need to comment. Wasn't going to but here it is. Part of

the > > fun of racing online is the discussions afterward. So, here it > goes....When > > I drive Vegas, I do not use the breaks. I slow down. This drive styleput

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> me > > in the top 5 for practice speeds, 3rd for qualifiing, and 2nd or 1st for > the > > warmup laps. Also, this method prolongs the tires for longer runs and > keeps > > the speeds consistent. The drawback is of course the hotfoots (number 1) > who > > want to win in the first several laps. As for the number 1 car, my

spotter > > was silent. Anybody can run there nose underneath someone. The realskill > is > > making the pass clean. I am just sorry that the others were taken out > > because I couldnt get my blasted car stopped. The worst part is that I > > managed to get tangled up with the 17 car twice and wondered how that > could > > have happend. The first time I couldnt stopped and got in his way, andthe > > second time I initally thought it was another love tap. Now I know what > > really happened and everything is fine. The important thing to rememberis

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> > that racing is a lot of fun and each of these tracks have their own > > personallity and your driving style will change accordingly. I used to > hate > > Sears Point, but after last week, I know appreciate it even thought I > never > > mastered it. I was really feeling good bout Vegas though. > > Grub > > > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <gNJT8.419$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > The 'tude actually came from trying (un-successfully) to find your > email > > > > addy so I could send you my replay and thoughts. If ya gonna spew > > publicly > > > > then give up the addy!! I followed the links to your site and end

up > > at a > > > > "read the readme" dead end.. Hence the 'tude...dude.... <g> Whatfn

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> > > > "Contents" frame???? heh.. > > > > > > Gotta update my sig - it's actually the 3rd URL at this time, but I'll > > > re-arrange them. > > > > > > > My thoughts, replay available. > > > > > > > > A. He was warping. I don't wanna be near warping cars and will

make > > bad > > > > choices trying to get away. > > > > > > I watched both my replay and the server replay, and he wasn't warpingat > > > all. But as weall know quite well, each replay will show something a > > > little different. > > > > > > > B. His line was whacked entering T1 all previous laps letting meget

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> a > > run > > > > down the backstretch.. > > > > > > According to the two replays I watched, sometimes he missed his lift > > > point, sometimes he didn't. > > > > > > > C. I had a run and pulled low all the way down back straight trying > to > > make > > > > my intentions known. > > > > > > The two replays I watched showed him coming down as you came up on the > > > inside of him. The prudent move on your part would have been backing

off

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> > > and trying again at the next turn. I wonder how he had his spotter > > > settings. Mine are up all the way to maximum annoyance (voice mode), > > > but it's worth it. > > > > > > > D. He braked early/high entering T3 letting me get completely along > > side > > > > his car low inside lane, near line. > > > > > > I'd like to see his replay from that section. Your speeds weren't all > > > that different. > > > > > > > E. He knew I was there and continued down into me as we are side by > > side. > > > > Yeah I created the situation but he contributed a fair share to the > > final > > > > result. You make it sound much worse. TWICE!!!!! > > > > > > I think I mentioned that he had apparently ignored his spotter. In

the > > > end, it was your call to make as you were the fastest car at thatpoint. > > > > > > > Yeah I shoulda waited a few laps, but to put 100% blame on me orcall > > it > > > > "stupid" isn't fair either. > > > > > > In my previous message, I did state that we're all guilty of stupid > > > passing moves. Shit happens and sometimes one of us is the oneserving

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> > > it up in heaping plate-fulls. I'm sure that if I go back and look at > > > some of the past RAS replays, I could find at least one stupid passing > > > move that I'm guilty of. > > > > > > > If the situation was reversed I would have > > > > stayed in my lane in the high groove and we have no wreck. > > > > > > Again, it depends on how he had his spotter configured. What are you > > > using for a spotter setting? Is it voice or text? Text spotters can > > > get lost in the race chatter, so I wouldn't recommend that mode of > > > operation. > > > > > > > Mitch > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ========================================================= > > > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > > > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > > RASCAR Roster > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > > > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > > > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > > > > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > > > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > >

"grubbat" wrote: > No hard feelings here. My spotter was on, he just didnt say anythingabout > you being at my rear wheel. We just had two different driving stylesthat > all. Now that is a great attitude. Nice one.