OT: Dear Tom...

on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email to BRD, extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context and suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead a boycott organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim racing forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say this to you: We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and the International laws, including the local English laws covering this "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws have always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few) emails, and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a newsgroup is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when using the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were not aware of that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this fact, I would believe?" I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost in the post? Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as well. I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved with BRD. That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived thismorning - they're great. Love and Kisses Tom, as always. Doug

>"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote<snip> > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. LOL! Way to bring some action to this newsgroup, Douglas :) I mean, the release of F1-2002, GP4, now this... we're busy here! p.s.: I hate oleaut32.dll -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VBvP8.1173$[email hidden]... > >"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > <snip> > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > LOL! Way to bring some action to this newsgroup, Douglas :) Dave says he's had a few beers - i REALLY hope he posts something :d Doug

ill wait for the fish to take the bait... Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aem1sq$84hug$[email hidden]...

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VBvP8.1173$[email hidden]... > > >"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > > <snip> > > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > > > > LOL! Way to bring some action to this newsgroup, Douglas :) > > Dave says he's had a few beers - i REALLY hope he posts something :d > > Doug > >

Tom who? The maturity of this group never ceases to amaze me, its still 3 year olds no matter what context they claim to be posting in. Why don't you immature little chidren just take it out on the playground and have at it? These personal vendettas are much better served through private e-mails, not here. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aelt7h$82g7q$[email hidden]... > on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... > > "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email to BRD, > extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context and > suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead a boycott > organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim racing > forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say this to you: > We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and the > International laws, including the local English laws covering this > "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws have > always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few) emails, > and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be > contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of > "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a newsgroup > is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when using > the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and > public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were not aware of > that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this fact, I > would believe?" > > > I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost in the > post? > > Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as well. > > I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved with BRD. > > That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived thismorning - > they're great. > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > Doug > >

>"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote > Tom who? Errrrr, we all know whom he's talking to. > The maturity of this group never ceases to amaze me, its still 3 yearolds no matter what > context they claim to be posting in. Hmmm you clearly have not much experience of the Usenet. rec.autos.simulators is one of the most adult and serious newsgroup that I know, and I lurk/post in dozens and dozens of them. The ratio of noise is fairly low. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. They decided not to pursue the matter since it was only three people (according to BRD). I agreed. I never did know the names of who wrote to them....it wasn't important then....or now. Apparently it was you and David Powell.....thanks, I can "kill file" both of you now. There was a mutual decision made three months prior to the incident you refer to below.......for PR not to act as a USA distributor for BRD products. The email you sent to BRD was a "mute point" even as you wrote it. This decision was not based on the quality of the BRD product line. Its excellent.....I'm glad you have purchased their new Speed7 pedals....you should really like them. I have and use.....a set myself....for my personal sim racing (as well as one of their wheels). I would recommend them to anyone. Tom "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aelt7h$82g7q$[email hidden]...

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> on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... > > "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email to BRD, > extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context and > suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead a boycott > organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim racing > forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say this to

you: > We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and the > International laws, including the local English laws covering this > "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws have > always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few)emails, > and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be > contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of > "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on anewsgroup

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> is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when using > the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and > public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were not aware of > that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this fact, I > would believe?" > > > I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost in the > post? > > Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as well. > > I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved with BRD. > > That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived thismorning - > they're great. > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > Doug > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HWwP8.82317$[email hidden]... > It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. They decided not to pursue the > matter since it was only three people (according to BRD). I agreed. Having spoken at length to BRD about the matter - I can confirm that that's complete bullshit - but hey - whatever floats your boat Tom - you've talked crap in RAS for months - why stop now. Whilst I'm NOT a fan of airing private emails in public - I consider it time to lay out the truth so all can see how many lies you have been telling. You say only three people contacted them "...We have been inundated with complaints, we are taking this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as possible..." ( a private email with BRD - again - I appologise for publicly airing private emails- but I am doing so with GOOD reason) You told a friend of yours ( who relayed this to VROC) that you had been laughing about the entire incident with Simon @ BRD ( an all round nice chap) "<Mac_BRD> he and simion at brd had to laugh about it all ...some brits called brd and tried to get him fired from brd..lol i guess they thought he worked for brd...simon and he had good laugh at that one..he is north american dist. for brd not an employee of brd" ( VROC transcript ) When infact - you had done no such thing and at that time BRD were NOT impressed. "Neither Tom nor Mac can speak for BRD, not least because it isn't right what they are saying." ( Private email with BRD) BRD took the issue of YOUR inflamatory posts seriously as it posed a threat to THEIR credability due to YOUR lack of consideration. "If someone is implying that we find there is anything funny about the nature of Tom's comments then they are very much mistaken" ( Email with BRD) Now Tom - either you are lying thru your teeth - or you're telling me that BRD were lying thru their teeth. No brainer in my opinion - It's clear that you've been lying ever since the incident. If anyone wished to see the emails from which the above was quoted - I will happily forward them to you. Apologies once again to BRD for bringing private emails into the open - but as a VERY happy customer I refuse to sit back and watch Mr Pabst lie thru his teeth even more and further try and soil the EXCELLENT name of BRD whose reputation - for a time - you abused so VERY badly. Your witness. Doug

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EGwP8.47117$[email hidden]... > Tom who? The maturity of this group never ceases to amaze me, its still 3year olds no matter what > context they claim to be posting in. Why don't you immature littlechidren just take it out on the > playground and have at it? This is not immature behaviour. When someone threatens legal action I take it seriously. There were never any grounds for such action - but action was threatened all the same. Mr Pabst has lied to the group time and time again - and in my opinion posed a genuine threat to the name of BRD. I felt it was time to ask Mr Pabst what his intentions were - and he has replied with more lies. Thus I have taken the opportunity - as you will see - to demonstrate his lies as such - and I hope - bring the matter to a close. DOug

"David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > ill wait for the fish to take the bait... You'd just gone to bed when the float started bobbing. Could be an interesting day at work watching the thread though Doug

Since it was from Nov. of last year, seesm the only thing you did was to stir up something that had dropped, but what do I know. I obviously have little understanding of the infantile mind... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aem7ku$82v61$[email hidden]... > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EGwP8.47117$[email hidden]... > > Tom who? The maturity of this group never ceases to amaze me, its still 3 > year olds no matter what > > context they claim to be posting in. Why don't you immature little > chidren just take it out on the > > playground and have at it? > > This is not immature behaviour. When someone threatens legal action I take > it seriously. There were never any grounds for such action - but action was > threatened all the same. > > Mr Pabst has lied to the group time and time again - and in my opinion posed > a genuine threat to the name of BRD. > > I felt it was time to ask Mr Pabst what his intentions were - and he has > replied with more lies. Thus I have taken the opportunity - as you will > see - to demonstrate his lies as such - and I hope - bring the matter to a > close. > > > DOug > >

doug you sound fat

Doug, Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Alanb

All because of what Tom said about hotlappers. I bet he's having a laugh about this thread. David G Fisher "Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QByP8.83536$[email hidden]...

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> Doug, > > Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. > > Alanb > >

Biz wrote: > > Tom who? The maturity of this group never ceases to amaze me, its still 3 year olds no matter what > context they claim to be posting in. Why don't you immature little chidren just take it out on the > playground and have at it? These personal vendettas are much better served through private e-mails, > not here. SHUT IT!

Douglas Ellison wrote: > Now Tom - either you are lying thru your teeth - or you're telling me that > BRD were lying thru their teeth. It's very simple: Tom just has to swear on the lives of his wife and kids that he's only told the complete truth in regards to all this. Then we can all believe him and move on! Tom, over to you?

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IaCP8.306281$[email hidden]... > All because of what Tom said about hotlappers. I bet he's having a laugh > about this thread. > > David G Fisher Perhaps he is, perhaps he isnt. One doesnt and shouldnt take threats of legal action lightly. Doug

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7vxP8.47233$[email hidden]... > Since it was from Nov. of last year, seesm the only thing you did was tostir up something that had > dropped, It's basically 6 months exactly since his threat of Legal Action - and Dave's reply to a previous post of his highlighted this - so I thought it best to publicly ask for a status report - evidently he's enable to give one as the only threat of legal action was in his imagination If you dont like the contents of the thread - with all due respect - why are you reading it? Doug

"drink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:scyP8.3663$[email hidden]... > doug you sound fat A little chubby around the waist, but certainly not obese. Electronic scales at the health club of the hotel of a recent holiday I enjoyed at the Isle of Wight suggested I should get rid of 1 stone to be a slightly healthier weight. Hows your weight doing. Oh yeah, wtf has my weight got to do with my post? DOug

Tom Pabst wrote: > > It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. Why BRD's and not yours? After all you were the one who wrote: >>We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and theInternational laws, including the local English laws covering this "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws have always been.<< You perceived that you were the damaged party, and as you said at the time you weren't employed by DRD, surely it's a matter for you personally? You also said: >>We have the "email address of record" for those (few) emails,and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a newsgroup is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when using the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and public companies and corporations.<< So why no action by you then? Gerry

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Jeezzee you are one stupid cheese Tom!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL - LMAO!!!! -- ed_ (Now go get a "pour-seat" done so that you can learn how it feels like - LOL!) "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:HWwP8.82317$[email hidden]... > It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. They decided not to pursue the > matter since it was only three people (according to BRD). I agreed. I > never did know the names of who wrote to them....it wasn't important > then....or now. Apparently it was you and David Powell.....thanks, I can > "kill file" both of you now. > > There was a mutual decision made three months prior to the incident you > refer to below.......for PR not to act as a USA distributor for BRD > products. The email you sent to BRD was a "mute point" even as you wrote > it. This decision was not based on the quality of the BRD product line. > Its excellent.....I'm glad you have purchased their new Speed7 pedals....you > should really like them. I have and use.....a set myself....for my personal > sim racing (as well as one of their wheels). I would recommend them to > anyone. > > Tom > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aelt7h$82g7q$[email hidden]... > > on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... > > > > "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email to BRD, > > extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context and > > suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead a boycott > > organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim racing > > forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say this to > you: > > We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and the > > International laws, including the local English laws covering this > > "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws have > > always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few) > emails, > > and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be > > contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of > > "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a > newsgroup > > is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when using > > the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and > > public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were not aware of > > that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this fact, I > > would believe?" > > > > > > I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost in the > > post? > > > > Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as well. > > > > I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved with BRD. > > > > That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived thismorning - > > they're great. > > > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > > Doug > > > > > >

In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for toxic emissions. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > Perhaps he is, perhaps he isnt. One doesnt and shouldnt take threats of > legal action lightly. > > Doug > >

"Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you fortoxic > emissions. The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a women can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. Doug

Why because they didnt supply the spastic with a bib, or a thick rubber suit or maybe someone to spoon feed the coffee to her....? Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aenjre$8h9pp$[email hidden]...

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> > "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > > In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for > toxic > > emissions. > > The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a women > can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > > Doug > >

But Doug the coffee was hot! LOL. FYI. The original 20 some million award was reduced to a couple million :) --->>> Mitch on his way to McDonalds for coffee, hehe. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aenjre$8h9pp$[email hidden]...

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> > "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > > In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for > toxic > > emissions. > > The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a women > can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > > Doug > >

Yeah Ed......I'd actually have to totally agree with you! ....lol.... But I was in one of those "fishy, smelly" moods yesterday.....couldn't help myself actually! Besides, I really never did know who exactly was writing to BRD......now I do (two of them at least) = two for the kill file. These guys tend to make my case for me.......who would save VROC chat-log files from six months back.....but the most anal of stir-mongers......then quote something said by another VROC person as indicative of my statements? You and I have gone "toe-to-toe" many times over the years here on r.a.s. I think we probably disagree more about things than agree (except for this case, I was pretty stupid to reply to Doug's post...lol...). But, you have always remained respectful in your writing, and I hope I have towards you, as well. That is a far cry of difference to what these guys are doing! I wonder what their motivation is? It doesn't make any sense to me. Oh well, maybe somebody is entertained by this BS.....I know I'm not. Regards, Tom "Ed Solheim" <edwins[ REMOVE ]@[ THIS ].no> wrote in message news:C%HP8.3732$[email hidden]...

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> ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! > > Jeezzee you are one stupid cheese Tom!! > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL - LMAO!!!! > > -- > ed_ > (Now go get a "pour-seat" done so that you can learn how it feels like - > LOL!) > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > news:HWwP8.82317$[email hidden]... > > It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. They decided not to pursue

the > > matter since it was only three people (according to BRD). I agreed. I > > never did know the names of who wrote to them....it wasn't important > > then....or now. Apparently it was you and David Powell.....thanks, Ican > > "kill file" both of you now. > > > > There was a mutual decision made three months prior to the incident you > > refer to below.......for PR not to act as a USA distributor for BRD > > products. The email you sent to BRD was a "mute point" even as youwrote

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> > it. This decision was not based on the quality of the BRD product line. > > Its excellent.....I'm glad you have purchased their new Speed7 > pedals....you > > should really like them. I have and use.....a set myself....for my > personal > > sim racing (as well as one of their wheels). I would recommend them to > > anyone. > > > > Tom > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:aelt7h$82g7q$[email hidden]... > > > on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... > > > > > > "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email to > BRD, > > > extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context

and > > > suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead a boycott > > > organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim > racing > > > forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say thisto > > you: > > > We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character" and > the > > > International laws, including the local English laws covering this > > > "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA lawshave

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> > > always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few) > > emails, > > > and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will be > > > contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The level of > > > "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a > > newsgroup > > > is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when > using > > > the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individuals and > > > public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were not aware > of > > > that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this

fact, > I > > > would believe?" > > > > > > > > > I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost inthe > > > post? > > > > > > Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as > well. > > > > > > I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved withBRD.

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> > > > > > That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived thismorning - > > > they're great. > > > > > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > >

20mill.....even $20 is pathetic, you wonder why we pay a fortune for things, cause some sponging wanker has sued most companies at some point :) Mitch Alatorre <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9yIP8.802$[email hidden]... > But Doug the coffee was hot! LOL. > > FYI. The original 20 some million award was reduced to a couple million:)

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> --->>> Mitch on his way to McDonalds for coffee, hehe. > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aenjre$8h9pp$[email hidden]... > > > > "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > > > In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for > > toxic > > > emissions. > > > > The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a

women

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> > can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > > > > Doug > > > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MDIP8.88795$[email hidden]... > who would save VROC chat-log files from six months back I didnt. I emailed it - and as a result it is saved in my sent items list. Who'd be so anal as to archive and check the IP addresses of newsgroups posts because you thought you had a libel/slader case. Who's be so stupid as to presume there was any case to being with. Who would be so sick and twisted as to continue to refuse to admit continued lying but yourself Tom. >That is a far cry of difference to what these guys are doing! I > wonder what their motivation is? You threatened legal action - then lied about it, and lied about where it might have come from. Thats all the motivation I need. >It doesn't make any sense to me. I'm sure it doesnt - in the same way honesty doesnt make sense to you either as you've shown here. > Oh well maybe somebody is entertained by this BS.....I know I'm not. I find your continued diversion from the truth VERY entertaining - and your inital threat of legal action makes me laugh every time I read it. Doug

lol a different story each time, must be depending on the medication his doctor gives him for his Mania.... Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MDIP8.88795$[email hidden]... > Yeah Ed......I'd actually have to totally agree with you! ....lol....But > I was in one of those "fishy, smelly" moods yesterday.....couldn't help > myself actually! Besides, I really never did know who exactly was writing > to BRD......now I do (two of them at least) = two for the kill file.These > guys tend to make my case for me.......who would save VROC chat-log files > from six months back.....but the most anal of stir-mongers......then quote > something said by another VROC person as indicative of my statements? > > You and I have gone "toe-to-toe" many times over the years here on r.a.s.I > think we probably disagree more about things than agree (except for this > case, I was pretty stupid to reply to Doug's post...lol...). But, youhave > always remained respectful in your writing, and I hope I have towards you, > as well. That is a far cry of difference to what these guys are doing! I > wonder what their motivation is? It doesn't make any sense to me. Ohwell,

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> maybe somebody is entertained by this BS.....I know I'm not. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > "Ed Solheim" <edwins[ REMOVE ]@[ THIS ].no> wrote in message > news:C%HP8.3732$[email hidden]... > > ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! > > > > Jeezzee you are one stupid cheese Tom!! > > LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL - LMAO!!!! > > > > -- > > ed_ > > (Now go get a "pour-seat" done so that you can learn how it feels like - > > LOL!) > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > > news:HWwP8.82317$[email hidden]... > > > It would have been BRD's lawyer, not mine. They decided not to pursue > the > > > matter since it was only three people (according to BRD). I agreed.

I > > > never did know the names of who wrote to them....it wasn't important > > > then....or now. Apparently it was you and David Powell.....thanks, I > can > > > "kill file" both of you now. > > > > > > There was a mutual decision made three months prior to the incidentyou > > > refer to below.......for PR not to act as a USA distributor for BRD > > > products. The email you sent to BRD was a "mute point" even as you > wrote > > > it. This decision was not based on the quality of the BRD productline. > > > Its excellent.....I'm glad you have purchased their new Speed7 > > pedals....you > > > should really like them. I have and use.....a set myself....for my > > personal > > > sim racing (as well as one of their wheels). I would recommend themto

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> > > anyone. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:aelt7h$82g7q$[email hidden]... > > > > on Nov. 14th 2001 you said... > > > > > > > > "To the few of you who decided to launch a slur campaign via email

to > > BRD, > > > > extracting "parts of my written r.a.s. posts" lifted out of context > and > > > > suited to you contentions.....threatening to boycott or lead aboycott > > > > organizing activity of BRD products on VROC or in other online sim > > racing > > > > forums......."if I was not fired immediately by BRD"......I say this > to > > > you: > > > > We believe this is blatant and flagrant "defamation of character"and

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> > the > > > > International laws, including the local English laws covering this > > > > "corruption of free speech" are as strict and exact as the USA laws > have > > > > always been. We have the "email address of record" for those (few) > > > emails, > > > > and the IP address of the computer they were compiled on. You will

be > > > > contacted soon about the action we may take against you. The levelof > > > > "reasonable responsibility" about what you might post or say on a > > > newsgroup > > > > is quite different than the "reasonable responsibility" one has when > > using > > > > the Internet email system to send messages publicly to individualsand > > > > public companies and corporations. Perhaps some of you were notaware

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> > of > > > > that.....you are about to get a very distasteful lesson about this > fact, > > I > > > > would believe?" > > > > > > > > > > > > I've not recieved a letter from your lawyer yet. Did it get lost in > the > > > > post? > > > > > > > > Must be Royal Mail here in the UK - cos I think they lost Dave's as > > well. > > > > > > > > I've heard from a close source that you're no longer involved with > BRD. > > > > > > > > That's why I bought a set of Speed 7 Pedals that arrived

thismorning -

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> > > > they're great. > > > > > > > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:aemsqq$8agot$[email hidden]:

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IaCP8.306281$[email hidden]... >> All because of what Tom said about hotlappers. I bet he's having a laugh >> about this thread. >> >> David G Fisher > > Perhaps he is, perhaps he isnt. One doesnt and shouldnt take threats of > legal action lightly. > > Doug > >

But one does, and should threaten somebody's business and livelihood by boycotting the products of their business partners, just because they said that GPL hotlappers are just learning how to crash faster, not drive faster? The hypocrisy is absolutely astounding. I don't have much time for T Pabst, he's not one to hide his light under a bushel that's for sure, but when you're threatening to put a man on skid row because he had an opinion about games players? Or is there something else involved? John

Can anybody tell me (without any bias) how this all started? Or shouldn't I ask?

I must have missed this one... Did Tom piss in someone's wheaties or something ? -Larry "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VBvP8.1173$[email hidden]...

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> >"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > <snip> > > Love and Kisses Tom, as always. > > > LOL! Way to bring some action to this newsgroup, Douglas :) > > > I mean, the release of F1-2002, GP4, now this... we're busy here! > > > > p.s.: I hate oleaut32.dll > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:33:02 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... >> In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for >toxic >> emissions. > >The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a women >can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > >Doug

http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm and http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm and many more... /petern

> The hypocrisy is absolutely astounding.He can call hot lappers a bunch of idiots, but if we call him one it's illegal? >I don't have much time for T Pabst, he's not one to hide his light under abushel that's for sure, but > when you're threatening to put a man on skid row because he had an opinion > about games players? He brought the reputation of a fine company into disrepute - action, in my opinion, had to be taken. When he then threatens legal action against myself and others - THEN it became a) Quite funny in some respects (i.e. WHAT legal issue - I had voiced my opinion, and exercised my right to choose what I will and will not buy) and b) Rather tragic that he continues to lie and bullshit his way out of the situation Doug

Larry wrote: > > I must have missed this one... > > Did Tom piss in someone's wheaties or something ? Happens all the time, it's not the first, and I'd wager a bet that it won't be the last either, too bad the odds on that one is damn low, even with Ladbrooks, that I won't become rich on that bet, oh well Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

>"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote > Since it was from Nov. of last year, seesm the only thing you did was tostir up something that had > dropped, but what do I know. I obviously have little understanding of theinfantile mind... I suggest you never read anything about Derek Smart here on the Usenet ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<1TOP8.3375$[email hidden]>...

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> >"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Since it was from Nov. of last year, seesm the only thing you did was to > stir up something that had > > dropped, but what do I know. I obviously have little understanding of the > infantile mind... > > I suggest you never read anything about D*r*k Sm*rt here on the Usenet ;-D

Aaaaaaarrrrgghh! Don't say the name! He's like Betelgeuse - post the name 3 times and he'll show up and not go away! I was about to say "what's with this thread? did we warp over to csipg.space-sim or something?" Don't make it so! - We've already got Eep^2 over here from a cross-post ;). Kendt

John.... Thank you for slicing through all the BS so succinctly. I'm not sure what your phrase, "he's not one to hide his light under a bushel" actually means....I've never heard the phrase before. I might guess that it means something about always "speaking my mind".....if that's correct, I have to say, "guilty." But, I try to be respectful.......even though sometimes my chosen words don't come across that way.....that's my fault, for sure. As far as I know, there isn't "something else"......and I don't know what I'm supposed to be lying about either? Although, I'm pretty sure these guys will manage to come up with some convolution of a previous statement.....to point out......its their MO, so far at least. Regards, Tom "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:aemsqq$8agot$[email hidden]: > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:IaCP8.306281$[email hidden]... > >> All because of what Tom said about hotlappers. I bet he's having a

laugh

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> >> about this thread. > >> > >> David G Fisher > > > > Perhaps he is, perhaps he isnt. One doesnt and shouldnt take threats of > > legal action lightly. > > > > Doug > > > > > > But one does, and should threaten somebody's business and livelihood by > boycotting the products of their business partners, just because they said > that GPL hotlappers are just learning how to crash faster, not drive > faster? > > The hypocrisy is absolutely astounding. I don't have much time for T > Pabst, he's not one to hide his light under a bushel that's for sure, but > when you're threatening to put a man on skid row because he had an opinion > about games players? > > Or is there something else involved? > > John

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w%UP8.92905$[email hidden]... >and I don't know what I'm supposed to be lying about either? Can you neither read NOR tell the truth? I quote my post to you again. You say only three people contacted BRD "...We have been inundated with complaints, we are taking this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as possible..." ( a private email with BRD - again - I appologise for publicly airing private emails- but I am doing so with GOOD reason) Either you lied or BRD lied. You told a friend of yours ( who relayed this to VROC) that you had been laughing about the entire incident with Simon @ BRD ( an all round nice chap) "<Mac_BRD> he and simion at brd had to laugh about it all ...some brits called brd and tried to get him fired from brd..lol i guess they thought he worked for brd...simon and he had good laugh at that one..he is north american dist. for brd not an employee of brd" ( VROC transcript ) "If someone is implying that we find there is anything funny about the nature of Tom's comments then they are very much mistaken" ( Email with BRD) So you've been spouting bullshit in R.A.S tom. I you cant see it when so many others can - then I strongly suggest some sort of psychological help. DOug

The phrase refers to egotistical blathering about one's accomplishments, possessions, acquaintances etc.

DOUG GIVE IT A REST NOBODY CARES

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> Can you neither read NOR tell the truth? > > I quote my post to you again. > > You say only three people contacted BRD > > "...We have been inundated with complaints, we are taking this most > seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as possible..." ( a > private email with BRD - again - I appologise for publicly airing private > emails- but I am doing so with GOOD reason) > > Either you lied or BRD lied. > > You told a friend of yours ( who relayed this to VROC) that you had been > laughing about the entire incident with Simon @ BRD ( an all round nice > chap) > > "<Mac_BRD> he and simion at brd had to laugh about it all ...some brits > called brd and tried to get him fired from brd..lol i guess they thought

he > worked for brd...simon and he had good laugh at that one..he is north > american dist. for brd not an employee of brd" ( VROC transcript ) > > "If someone is implying that we find there is anything funny about the > nature of Tom's comments then they are very much mistaken" ( Email withBRD)

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> > > So you've been spouting bullshit in R.A.S tom. I you cant see it when so > many others can - then I strongly suggest some sort of psychological help. > > DOug > >

drink wrote: > > DOUG GIVE IT A REST NOBODY CARES Speak for yourself, I happen to think this is rather amusing .... for several reasons :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

"drink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sj0Q8.9078$[email hidden]... > DOUG GIVE IT A REST NOBODY CARES I do. If you dont like it - dont read it. Or is that a bit hard for you? Doug

Tom Pabst wrote:

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> > John.... > > Thank you for slicing through all the BS so succinctly. > > I'm not sure what your phrase, "he's not one to hide his light under a > bushel" actually means....

It's a polite way of calling you a show off. How's the Ferrari sim coming along, BTW. Did you do as I suggested, and put a Hyper in front of plasma monitor? ;) Gerry

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] SPAM.se says...

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> On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:33:02 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > >> In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for > >toxic > >> emissions. > > > >The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a women > >can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > > > >Doug > > > http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm > and > http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm > and many more... > > > /petern >

Peter, I'm not sure how old I was (guess we're talking one digit numbers here) when I learned from my parents that coffee is usually prepared with boiling water. However, I'm pretty sure that the temperature of boiling water is (at a given altitude and pressure) the same all over the world. So, stating that McDonalds coffee was *too* hot is a bad joke (IMHO). Norbert

Gerry.... I guess I'd have to say that I can clearly see how one would take a lot of things I say....especially in relation to people and things I do (have done) related to the real-world of racing....as being a show off. That would be especially true, I think....with someone who already doesn't care for me for some particular reason (justified or not...that really doesn't matter). But, I don't know how I can talk about things that I do everyday....in the course of my work at PR and so forth......and have it not look like I'm showing off....to someone? I think many people on this newsgroup just flat don't believe that I have one foot in real racing...and one foot in sim racing.....for the last 5 to 7 years (sim racing) and 18 years (real racing). Is it my job to prove it to them? I don't think so. What is my job is to provide concurrent substantiation of the things I talk about in some credible way. I have always done that.....with pictures and so forth....I think? There's another forum made up of mostly SCCA drivers I frequent almost as much as R.A.S. These guys have known me as only a real-world race car driver. Some of the things I say to them about sim racing......are regarded by them with the same kind of unbelievable remarks....I hear on this newsgroup about things I say about real-world racing. Its very funny sometimes. But, these guys don't accuse me of being a show off.....and a liar. If I say......I had lunch with Kurt Busch yesterday......those guys ask me what we talked about, while r.a.s. posts are about "BS from Tom.....more show-off stuff"....??? I don't get it. Maybe most of the ras readers don't post anything....only the guys who don't like me who are taking another opportunity for a "slam Pabst" post? Who knows........? Most of the time I just shrug it off.....sometimes it hurts.......and sometimes it just pisses me off. Oh well, I could just blow off coming to r.a.s......but then I'd miss out on the tremendous amount of help and good information I get from many people on this newsgroup......and the opportunity to help someone else out with a problem from time to time. So, I guess I'll just continue to put up with the occasional "slam Pabst" post as I've done for about 5 years. Regarding the Ferrari project (assume you mean the 95' F1 car that was Irvine's backup and MS's test car...I posted about a month or two back): That project is on hold until our race shop at Sears is completed (which has now been pushed back another two months by the track). Actually, something like an HS and a plasma screen would be a good, low-cost solution.....we did recommend it as a quick-start method to get up to speed running a modern F1 car (the owner has no racing experience whatsoever). But, he wants the Ferrari cockpit interior to be completely reproduced ....to the T......including even a carbon fiber steering wheel and all gauges. That's a little more complicated (..lol...).....so its all on hold until our shop is completed. The interior of the F1 car is all lined in hand-sewn, black, velveteen-brushed leather....nearly full body length! That's going to be a big job (and expensive) all by itself. We have a guy in our area who makes hand-made seats for Harley's.......who is bidding on that work. It should be cool if he will do it....he does awesome work. I tell you guys....just sitting in this car is a near religious experience. The craftsmanship and construction is incredible.....and I've sat in or driven a fair number of different types of race cars over the years, including the 2001 Audi LMP900's (which are pretty remarkable too).....nothing is even in the same league as this F1 Ferrari, though! Regards, Tom "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > > John.... > > > > Thank you for slicing through all the BS so succinctly. > > > > I'm not sure what your phrase, "he's not one to hide his light under a > > bushel" actually means.... > > It's a polite way of calling you a show off. > > How's the Ferrari sim coming along, BTW. Did you do as I suggested, and > put a Hyper in front of plasma monitor? ;) > > Gerry

Gavel.....are you "warming up to me"....??? ....lol.... On the last few occasions you've had to take a big swing at me......you've only taken a small swat! Greg....we keep this up we might actually become friends some day? I guess that wouldn't be something bad. Tom "Gavel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The phrase refers to egotistical blathering about one's accomplishments, > possessions, acquaintances etc. > >

Tom Pabst wrote: <SNIP> Whatever, Tom. You say what you say and people hear what they want to hear, half the time. The other half of the time I think you're your own worst enemy. BTW, just took a look at the picture of your SPR Simulator. Looks really good! No unnecessary parts...I really hate simulators that look look the thing they're trying to simulate from the OUTSIDE. If you'll permit me, a few Q's: I'm very interested in the race frame, where did you get it? Or was it made specially? It looks very adjustable. Any plans to add two more monitors to the setup? How big is the monitor, 22"? Have you got a fresnal lens in there somewhere? What sim is it running, N2002? I like the black glare shield around the monitor. I would think a necessity in your environment? There's a load of hi-fi stuff there, but the guy is wearing headphones? No FFB I see, but have you tried hooking up a Momo just to try it? Cheers Gerry

>"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote > Can anybody tell me (without any bias) how this all started? Or shouldn'tI > ask? http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&safe=off&q=Tom+Pab st&sa=N&tab=wg -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard wrote:

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> > >"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Can anybody tell me (without any bias) how this all started? Or shouldn't > I > > ask? > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&safe=off&q=Tom+Pab > st&sa=N&tab=wg

Uhh, that one will come up with a lot of stuff about another Tom Pabst as well as "our own" TP I may have issues with TP over a few things, but I'm not going to blame him for the arrogance and subjectivity of Tom Pabst of "Tom's Hardware" Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Norbert D�rer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>,[email hidden]

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> SPAM.se says... > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:33:02 +0100, "Douglas Ellison" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > >"Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:tfIP8.798$[email hidden]... > > >> In the USA if ya break wind in public you get 10 people suing you for > > >toxic > > >> emissions. > > > > > >The state of america's legal system is suitably demonstrated when a

women

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> > >can sue a fast food company for burning herself with coffeee. > > > > > >Doug > > > > > > http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm > > and > > http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm > > and many more... > > > > > > /petern > > > Peter, > > I'm not sure how old I was (guess we're talking one digit numbers here) > when I learned from my parents that coffee is usually prepared with > boiling water. However, I'm pretty sure that the temperature of boiling > water is (at a given altitude and pressure) the same all over the world. > > So, stating that McDonalds coffee was *too* hot is a bad joke (IMHO). > > Norbert >

Well see that is because you all don't have the full story. This PATICULAR McDonalds had been cited previously by the local health officials for preparing coffee that was tooo hot...Seems they had a problem with a large group of older gentlemen who would all order coffee and spend much of the morning tieing up seats and chatting amonst themselves. To try and force this group elsewhere, the management made the concious decision to heat the coffee well past normal temperatures. The fact that they had been officially repremanded (I beleive more than once) was the crux of the lady's case. That Mcdonalds got sued and lost because they chose business convienance over public safety. Now you know the REST of the Story.... dave henrie.....good ......................................day..............

> Well see that is because you all don't have the full story. This > PATICULAR McDonalds had been cited previously by the local healthofficials > for preparing coffee that was tooo hot...Seems they had a problem with a > large group of older gentlemen who would all order coffee and spend muchof > the morning tieing up seats and chatting amonst themselves. To try and > force this group elsewhere, the management made the concious decision to > heat the coffee well past normal temperatures. The fact that they hadbeen > officially repremanded (I beleive more than once) was the crux of thelady's > case. That Mcdonalds got sued and lost because they chose business > convienance over public safety. > Now you know the REST of the Story.... > dave henrie.....good......................................day.............. That guy needed to retire 30 years ago

"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Can anybody tell me (without any bias) how this all started? Or shouldn't I > ask? Judge for yourself: http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&threadm=Eopf7.11334%24P15.6271537%40news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:thl3619626048d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF8%26oe%3DUTF8%26selm%3DEopf7.11334%2524P15.6271537%2540news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com I haven't read the whole thing, but it seems to have gotten way out of hand. Tom just has a very specific opinion about what counts as racing (and a *very* big blind spot for real world "hotlapping" like SCCA solo, Rally, hillclimbs, Isle of Man TT, qualifying, etc.). His business interest in making people take sim-racing extremely seriously (and thus being willing to pay big bucks for his sim-rigs) also seems to be distorting his perspective a bit. He seems to be trying to make a distinction where there really is none - I have a friend for whom I setup a TSW rig for trying out setups and qualifying practice. He finished top-5 in a *big* national series, but is unfortunately looking for sponsorship this year. Is what he does not hotlapping? Is he any less of a racer for what he uses his simming for? He's hotlapping happily away to keep himself sharp for when a deal finally comes through. The way I see it, hotlapping is far less of an obstacle than companies coming out with great driving sims but with crappy multiplayer (EA anyone?), that and the fact that I still can't get decent broadband out here in the boonies ;)! Kendt PS - I will *not* answer questions about who this driver is - I only mentioned him to make the point about hotlapping. Don't want to be accused of name-dropping ;).

Tom's right about hotlapping. David G Fisher "Kendt Eklund" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>... > > Can anybody tell me (without any bias) how this all started? Orshouldn't I > > ask? > > Judge for yourself: > >http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&threadm=Eopf7. 11334%24P15.6271537%40news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:t hl3619626048d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF8%26oe%3DUTF8%26selm%3DEop f7.11334%2524P15.6271537%2540news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com

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> > I haven't read the whole thing, but it seems to have gotten way out of > hand. Tom just has a very specific opinion about what counts as > racing (and a *very* big blind spot for real world "hotlapping" like > SCCA solo, Rally, hillclimbs, Isle of Man TT, qualifying, etc.). His > business interest in making people take sim-racing extremely seriously > (and thus being willing to pay big bucks for his sim-rigs) also seems > to be distorting his perspective a bit. > > He seems to be trying to make a distinction where there really is none > - I have a friend for whom I setup a TSW rig for trying out setups and > qualifying practice. He finished top-5 in a *big* national series, > but is unfortunately looking for sponsorship this year. Is what he > does not hotlapping? Is he any less of a racer for what he uses his > simming for? He's hotlapping happily away to keep himself sharp for > when a deal finally comes through. > The way I see it, hotlapping is far less of an obstacle than companies > coming out with great driving sims but with crappy multiplayer (EA > anyone?), that and the fact that I still can't get decent broadband > out here in the boonies ;)! > > Kendt > > PS - I will *not* answer questions about who this driver is - I only > mentioned him to make the point about hotlapping. Don't want to be > accused of name-dropping ;).

>"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote > Uhh, that one will come up with a lot of stuff about another Tom Pabst > as well as "our own" TP Oh yeah sorry there. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&safe=off&q=Tom+Pab st&meta=group%3Drec.autos.simulators Oh don't do the same with me, please ;-P -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote... > Tom's right about hotlapping. LOL! In his own reality of what simracing is, it might be, but in reality his view is hogwash. imho :) . -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Tom's right about hotlapping. > No, Tom is NOT "right" about hotlapping. Tom has an "opinion" about hotlapping. Just because you happen to share that opinion does not make either one of you right. Others are equally entitled to the opinion that both you and Tom are wrong, as so often is the case.

David G Fisher wrote: > > Tom's right about hotlapping. Bad news indeed for Tom if you agree with him!

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q%aQ8.331338$[email hidden]... > Tom's right about hotlapping. > > David G Fisher And he'll threated to throw legal action at you if you disagree Doug

> So, stating that McDonalds coffee was *too* hot is a bad joke (IMHO). > > Norbert > The trouble was that they prepared it at a temperature of 212 and not 100 <G> MS > >

Geez.... That IS hot coffee! -Larry "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aesgar$eu4$[email hidden]...

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> > So, stating that McDonalds coffee was *too* hot is a bad joke (IMHO). > > > > Norbert > > > > The trouble was that they prepared it at a temperature of 212 and not 100 > <G> > > MS > > > > > >

In article <Tu8Q8.260988$cQ3.12193@sccrnsc01>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > Well see that is because you all don't have the full story. This > PATICULAR McDonalds had been cited previously by the local health officials > for preparing coffee that was tooo hot...Seems they had a problem with a > large group of older gentlemen who would all order coffee and spend much of > the morning tieing up seats and chatting amonst themselves. To try and > force this group elsewhere, the management made the concious decision to > heat the coffee well past normal temperatures. The fact that they had been > officially repremanded (I beleive more than once) was the crux of the lady's

I see! Every day I'm learning something new here one usenet. Next time I visit the States and want to dring something cold, I'll order a coffee. If I need something warm, I'll get a beer. :-) Are there laws in the States regarding the minimum acceptable ice-cream temperature as well? Norbert

In article <aesgar$eu4$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > The trouble was that they prepared it at a temperature of 212 and not 100 > <G> Hehe, serving coffee in an autoclave at maximum pressure sound like a unique idea to me. :-) Norbert

In article <Tu8Q8.260988$cQ3.12193@sccrnsc01>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Well see that is because you all don't have the full story. This >PATICULAR McDonalds had been cited previously by the local health officials >for preparing coffee that was tooo hot...Seems they had a problem with a >large group of older gentlemen who would all order coffee and spend much of >the morning tieing up seats and chatting amonst themselves. To try and >force this group elsewhere, the management made the concious decision to >heat the coffee well past normal temperatures. The fact that they had been >officially repremanded (I beleive more than once) was the crux of the lady's >case. That Mcdonalds got sued and lost because they chose business >convienance over public safety.

The difference between 140 deg and 160 deg as it relates to being spilled on skin probably doesn't matter a whole lot. It's gonna burn like hell, and cause skin damage. If you boil water at home for coffee, it's gonna be even higher - 212 deg. As I stated before - this was a STUPID lawsuit. I feel bad that the lady got burned, but you CAN'T blame McDonald's because you spilled coffee on yourself...sigh. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Norbert D�rer <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Peter, > >I'm not sure how old I was (guess we're talking one digit numbers here) >when I learned from my parents that coffee is usually prepared with >boiling water. However, I'm pretty sure that the temperature of boiling >water is (at a given altitude and pressure) the same all over the world. > >So, stating that McDonalds coffee was *too* hot is a bad joke (IMHO).

Thank you. That was a stupid lawsuit. Coffee is SUPPOSED to be hot! Effing lawyers... :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Thanks to those of you who made a donation for breast cancer research. The walkathon is over, but donations are still being accepted. Details on my webpage. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I read this whole thread (well, not every word, but enough), and I just don't see how we got from there to where it is now... I do think we're falling into someone's trap of bringing this all up for another round of argument, though, and I think I'll just leave it as is... -Larry "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:22:14 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>wrote:

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> > >Tom's right about hotlapping. > > > >> Judge for yourself: > >> > >> > >http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&threadm=Eopf7

. > >11334%24P15.6271537%40news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dg:t > >hl3619626048d%26dq%3D%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF8%26oe%3DUTF8%26selm%3DEop

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> >f7.11334%2524P15.6271537%2540news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com > >> > > > Shorter link ... > > http://tinyurl.com/fnl >

On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:31:13 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I read this whole thread (well, not every word, but enough), and I just >don't see how we got from there to where it is now... Yep! I did too...and I agree with what Larry said. Jim Tester

I don't agree with anyone at all.. and I think we should take the whole thing from the top one more time !! Mikkel