Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
thought respected others.
These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not particularly
fast at flat tracks.
So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some
laps in.
I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a
scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry,
but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we were
that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or whatever
caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I DID
know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. I
don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond back
later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside of
someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
think about it.
Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my butt at
Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it was
necessary to come after me verbally.
And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to be
a bit much.
And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the Loudon
race as well.
But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
privilage of speaking my mind.
Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going
on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used and
temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
Yet _I_ get ejected?
Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in what I
saw today.
So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event for
me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't enough,
then I sure don't know what is.
I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.
Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to
race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
-Larry
Newcomer's rough first RASCAR race
Larry complained that in his first RAS race he was blamed for incidents and ejected, and after reviewing the replay he said he caused nothing. Several drivers backed him, saying the incident was caused by warp and that he drove cleanly. Much discussion followed about confusing spotter instructions to pass the pace car under yellow, which left several cars a lap down, and about server owners' right to eject drivers.
Automated summary.
I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 days
trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the guy in
front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there
have been one if I had?
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
particularly
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, orwhatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if IDID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > thought respected others. > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notQuoted text (8 lines)
> fast at flat tracks. > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some > laps in. > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If weQuoted text (7 lines)
> race as well. > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > privilage of speaking my mind. > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedQuoted text (10 lines)
> then I sure don't know what is. > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > -Larry > >Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom incident
during the Loudon race.
And I found it.
In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you will see why.
And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain that I
did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it.
If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too.
This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race. The other car
involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren.
The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, the 8
car. Then go to the Rear Chase view.
When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance
buttons.
It is very clear what happened.
You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line all around
the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches. A little high
off the line, but reasonable.
However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right. Quite a
bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving.
It was due to warp.
This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing. My car made a
smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back and forth.
Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused
by warp.
I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched. I would have to
believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at least bobbled
if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the
slightest.
It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due to the
warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time.
I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, but in
this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had no choice.
No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things we have to live
with in online racing.
The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff before they
paint a bullseye on someone.
We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way.
JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)
Thanks :)
-Larry
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
particularly
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, orwhatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if IDID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > thought respected others. > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notQuoted text (8 lines)
> fast at flat tracks. > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some > laps in. > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If weQuoted text (7 lines)
> race as well. > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > privilage of speaking my mind. > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedQuoted text (10 lines)
> then I sure don't know what is. > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > -Larry > >It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)
That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand now
why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been done
about it.
Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear constantly
telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let him
pass! It was all so confusing.
I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided to
stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.
Papy needs to work on this.
-Larry
"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]...
> I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 days
> trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the guyin
some
> > laps in.
> >
> > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't havea
> > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'msorry,
butt
> at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.
> >
> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >
> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
Quoted text (19 lines)
> front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there > have been one if I had? > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > thought respected others. > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > particularly > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just getQuoted text (20 lines)
> > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > were > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > whatever > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I > DID > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. > I > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond > back > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside > of > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to > > think about it. > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (11 lines)
> be > > a bit much. > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > race as well. > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (14 lines)
> I > > saw today. > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > for > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > enough, > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (8 lines)
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > -Larry > > > > > > >I went by him once, but didn't look like he was gonna come along, so I
dropped back in behind him. Better than finishin dead last cause of a
penalty.
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, thecars
> ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
> car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay inline.
done
> > about it.
> >
> > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
> constantly
> > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, lethim
> > pass! It was all so confusing.
> >
> > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decidedto
on
> > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
> guy
> > in
> > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Wouldthere
looking
> > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People whoI
we
> > > were
> > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > > whatever
> > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, andif
chance
Indy.
> > As
> > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth wasgetting
the
Quoted text (13 lines)
> > Hope this helps. > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :) > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand > now > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have beenQuoted text (12 lines)
> > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > -Larry > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 > days > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace carQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I wasQuoted text (16 lines)
> > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > > particularly > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get > > some > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't > have > > a > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > > sorry, > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. IfQuoted text (17 lines)
> I > > > DID > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for > it. > > > I > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will > respond > > > back > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring > to. > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went > inside > > > of > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had aQuoted text (12 lines)
> to > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my > > butt > > > at > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt > it > > > was > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice atQuoted text (9 lines)
> > to > > > be > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > > > Loudon > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rankQuoted text (42 lines)
> > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > > going > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language > used > > > and > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > > doing. > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in > > what > > > I > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS > event > > > for > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > > > enough, > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have > liked > > to > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the cars
ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in line.
Hope this helps.
-John
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]...
> It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)
>
> That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understandnow
> why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been done
> about it.
>
> Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my earconstantly
days
> > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed theguy
have
I
> > DID
> > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize forit.
> > I
> > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
> > >
> > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and willrespond
> > back
> > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referringto.
> > >
> > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I wentinside
> > of
> > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chanceto
> > > think about it.
> > >
> > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> butt
> > at
> > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he feltit
used
event
liked
Quoted text (14 lines)
> telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let him > pass! It was all so confusing. > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided to > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > Papy needs to work on this. > > -Larry > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2Quoted text (24 lines)
> in > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > particularly > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get > some > > > laps in. > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn'tQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > sorry, > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > > were > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > > whatever > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and ifQuoted text (20 lines)
> > was > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. > As > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting > to > > be > > > a bit much. > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > > Loudon > > > race as well. > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > going > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the languageQuoted text (11 lines)
> > and > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > doing. > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in > what > > I > > > saw today. > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RASQuoted text (10 lines)
> > for > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > > enough, > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would haveQuoted text (11 lines)
> to > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > >John,
Yes, I do believe this is what occured.
Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ?
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, thecars
> ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
> car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay inline.
done
> > about it.
> >
> > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
> constantly
> > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, lethim
> > pass! It was all so confusing.
> >
> > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decidedto
on
> > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
> guy
> > in
> > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Wouldthere
looking
> > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People whoI
we
> > > were
> > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > > whatever
> > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, andif
chance
Indy.
> > As
> > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth wasgetting
the
Quoted text (13 lines)
> > Hope this helps. > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :) > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand > now > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have beenQuoted text (12 lines)
> > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > -Larry > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 > days > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace carQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I wasQuoted text (16 lines)
> > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > > particularly > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get > > some > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't > have > > a > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > > sorry, > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. IfQuoted text (17 lines)
> I > > > DID > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for > it. > > > I > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will > respond > > > back > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring > to. > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went > inside > > > of > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had aQuoted text (12 lines)
> to > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my > > butt > > > at > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt > it > > > was > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice atQuoted text (9 lines)
> > to > > > be > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > > > Loudon > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rankQuoted text (42 lines)
> > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > > going > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language > used > > > and > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > > doing. > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in > > what > > > I > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS > event > > > for > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > > > enough, > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have > liked > > to > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >That's exactly how I felt about it :)
-Larry
"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Z9VH8.20344$[email hidden]...
the
understand
> > now
> > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been
> done
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up tothat
car
> on
> > > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passedthe
who
get
If
> we
> > > > were
> > > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air,or
> > > > whatever
> > > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing,and
> if
> > I
> > > > DID
> > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologizefor
> > it.
> > > > I
> > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it wasV-something.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
> > respond
> > > > back
> > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you arereferring
my
> > > butt
> > > > at
> > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye hefelt
the
were
in
isn't
Quoted text (9 lines)
> I went by him once, but didn't look like he was gonna come along, so I > dropped back in behind him. Better than finishin dead last cause of a > penalty. > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the > cars > > ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But sinceQuoted text (13 lines)
> > car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in > line. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > -John > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :) > > > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. IQuoted text (20 lines)
> > > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear > > constantly > > > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let > him > > > pass! It was all so confusing. > > > > > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided > to > > > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 > > days > > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the paceQuoted text (16 lines)
> > guy > > > in > > > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would > there > > > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was > looking > > > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. PeopleQuoted text (8 lines)
> I > > > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > > > particularly > > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and justQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > some > > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't > > have > > > a > > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > > > sorry, > > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race.Quoted text (11 lines)
> > to. > > > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went > > inside > > > > of > > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a > chance > > to > > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was ridingQuoted text (14 lines)
> > it > > > > was > > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at > Indy. > > > As > > > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > getting > > > to > > > > be > > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durningQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > > Loudon > > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank > the > > > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments thatQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > going > > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language > > used > > > > and > > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > > > doing. > > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointedQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > what > > > > I > > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS > > event > > > > for > > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongueQuoted text (23 lines)
> > > > enough, > > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have > > liked > > > to > > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault. It's
the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace car,
who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who needed to
too, to be able to........whew<G>
I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace car),
his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed the
message, etc.
After that, not to many codes around could handle the situation :) The
spotter AI could be yelling over and over, but if the human doesn't respond,
that's that.
You are correct in staying put; otherwise you would have been flagged for
passing under yellow(other cars, not the pace car).
-John
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2gVH8.75002$[email hidden]...
the
understand
> > now
> > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been
> done
> > > about it.
> > >
> > > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up tothat
car
> on
> > > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passedthe
who
get
If
> we
> > > > were
> > > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air,or
> > > > whatever
> > > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing,and
> if
> > I
> > > > DID
> > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologizefor
> > it.
> > > > I
> > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it wasV-something.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
> > respond
> > > > back
> > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you arereferring
my
> > > butt
> > > > at
> > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye hefelt
the
were
in
isn't
Quoted text (13 lines)
> John, > > Yes, I do believe this is what occured. > > Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ? > > -Larry > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the > cars > > ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But sinceQuoted text (13 lines)
> > car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in > line. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > -John > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :) > > > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. IQuoted text (20 lines)
> > > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear > > constantly > > > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let > him > > > pass! It was all so confusing. > > > > > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided > to > > > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 > > days > > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the paceQuoted text (16 lines)
> > guy > > > in > > > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would > there > > > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was > looking > > > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. PeopleQuoted text (8 lines)
> I > > > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > > > particularly > > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and justQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > some > > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't > > have > > > a > > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > > > sorry, > > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race.Quoted text (11 lines)
> > to. > > > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went > > inside > > > > of > > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a > chance > > to > > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was ridingQuoted text (14 lines)
> > it > > > > was > > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at > Indy. > > > As > > > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > getting > > > to > > > > be > > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durningQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > > Loudon > > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank > the > > > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments thatQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > going > > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language > > used > > > > and > > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > > > doing. > > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointedQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > what > > > > I > > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS > > event > > > > for > > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongueQuoted text (22 lines)
> > > > enough, > > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have > > liked > > > to > > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before, and
it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault.It's
respond,
> that's that.
>
> You are correct in staying put; otherwise you would have been flaggedfor
the
:)
> > > >
> > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I
> understand
> > > now
> > > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should havebeen
let
> > him
> > > > pass! It was all so confusing.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I justdecided
2
didn't
> > > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did,I'm
went
riding
rank
language
> > > used
> > > > > and
> > > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even thinkof
> > > > doing.
> > > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremelydisappointed
> in
> > > > what
> > > > > I
> > > > > > saw today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined theRAS
> > > event
> > > > > for
> > > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part ofit.
have
Quoted text (10 lines)
> the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace car, > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who needed to > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace car), > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed the > message, etc. > > After that, not to many codes around could handle the situation :) The > spotter AI could be yelling over and over, but if the human doesn'tQuoted text (18 lines)
> passing under yellow(other cars, not the pace car). > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2gVH8.75002$[email hidden]... > > John, > > > > Yes, I do believe this is what occured. > > > > Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ? > > > > -Larry > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are,Quoted text (14 lines)
> > cars > > > ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since > the > > > car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in > > line. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the DramaQuoted text (8 lines)
> > done > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to > that > > > > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear > > > constantly > > > > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up,Quoted text (11 lines)
> > to > > > > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers forQuoted text (36 lines)
> > > days > > > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace > car > > on > > > > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed > the > > > guy > > > > in > > > > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would > > there > > > > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was > > looking > > > > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People > who > > I > > > > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > > > > particularly > > > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just > get > > > > some > > > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), andQuoted text (28 lines)
> > > > sorry, > > > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. > If > > we > > > > > were > > > > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, > or > > > > > whatever > > > > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, > and > > if > > > I > > > > > DID > > > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize > for > > > it. > > > > > I > > > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was > V-something. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will > > > respond > > > > > back > > > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are > referring > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when IQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > inside > > > > > of > > > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a > > chance > > > to > > > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons wasQuoted text (24 lines)
> my > > > > butt > > > > > at > > > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he > felt > > > it > > > > > was > > > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at > > Indy. > > > > As > > > > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > > getting > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning > the > > > > > Loudon > > > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don'tQuoted text (7 lines)
> > the > > > > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that > were > > > > going > > > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of theQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > > > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue > isn't > > > > > enough, > > > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I wouldQuoted text (18 lines)
> > > liked > > > > to > > > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Speaking of that (Bristol and papy servers), why the hell do people give up
all control of the car on the first lap of a race in exchange for one or two
better positions that they only hold for about four seconds before they
completely lose it and make a big damned mess? Over and over and over again
I have seen it happen today and yesterday. I let em by, they still manage to
screw me up. I am done with those tracks. It is a joke. The only thing about
my rating that changed was lpi.
"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]...
> I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 days
> trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the guyin
some
> > laps in.
> >
> > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't havea
> > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'msorry,
butt
> at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.
> >
> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >
> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
Quoted text (19 lines)
> front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there > have been one if I had? > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > thought respected others. > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > particularly > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just getQuoted text (20 lines)
> > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > were > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > whatever > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I > DID > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. > I > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond > back > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside > of > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to > > think about it. > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (11 lines)
> be > > a bit much. > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > race as well. > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (14 lines)
> I > > saw today. > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > for > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > enough, > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (8 lines)
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes
place at the line/pit entrance.
I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're where
you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try passing
a car/pace car.
If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no
message, keep going.
-John
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]...
car,
> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who neededto
> > too, to be able to........whew<G>
> >
> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pacecar),
> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missedthe
> > message, etc.
> >
> > After that, not to many codes around could handle the situation :)The
since
> > the
> > > > car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stayin
to
for
> 2
> > > > days
> > > > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind thepace
> > car
> > > on
> > > > > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would havepassed
> > the
> > > > guy
> > > > > in
> > > > > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty.Would
People
> > who
> > > I
> > > > > > > thought respected others.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'mnot
> > > > > > particularly
> > > > > > > fast at flat tracks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, andjust
race.
> > If
> > > we
> > > > > > were
> > > > > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp,air,
> > or
> > > > > > whatever
> > > > > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw athing,
> > and
> > > if
> > > > I
> > > > > > DID
> > > > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first toapologize
will
he
> > felt
> > > > it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > necessary to come after me verbally.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practiceat
durning
that
think
Quoted text (10 lines)
> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before, and > it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > -Larry > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault. > It's > > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the paceQuoted text (27 lines)
> > spotter AI could be yelling over and over, but if the human doesn't > respond, > > that's that. > > > > You are correct in staying put; otherwise you would have been flagged > for > > passing under yellow(other cars, not the pace car). > > > > -John > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:2gVH8.75002$[email hidden]... > > > John, > > > > > > Yes, I do believe this is what occured. > > > > > > Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ? > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, > the > > > cars > > > > ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. ButQuoted text (21 lines)
> > > line. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > > > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama > :) > > > > > > > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I > > understand > > > > now > > > > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have > been > > > done > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work upQuoted text (21 lines)
> > that > > > > > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear > > > > constantly > > > > > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, > let > > > him > > > > > pass! It was all so confusing. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just > decided > > > to > > > > > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > > > > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy serversQuoted text (13 lines)
> > > there > > > > > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was > > > looking > > > > > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people.Quoted text (12 lines)
> > get > > > > > some > > > > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and > didn't > > > > have > > > > > a > > > > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, > I'm > > > > > sorry, > > > > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that wholeQuoted text (7 lines)
> > for > > > > it. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was > > V-something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), andQuoted text (21 lines)
> > > > respond > > > > > > back > > > > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are > > referring > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I > went > > > > inside > > > > > > of > > > > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a > > > chance > > > > to > > > > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was > riding > > my > > > > > butt > > > > > > at > > > > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, yeQuoted text (9 lines)
> > > Indy. > > > > > As > > > > > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > > > getting > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him thisQuoted text (10 lines)
> > the > > > > > > Loudon > > > > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't > rank > > > the > > > > > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the argumentsQuoted text (7 lines)
> > were > > > > > going > > > > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the > language > > > > used > > > > > > and > > > > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could evenQuoted text (47 lines)
> of > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely > disappointed > > in > > > > > what > > > > > > I > > > > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the > RAS > > > > event > > > > > > for > > > > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue > > isn't > > > > > > enough, > > > > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would > have > > > > liked > > > > > to > > > > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I did not think I would go that many laps on the same set of tires.
Yeah, Bristol is a _tough_ crowed on open servers. Being in the lead can be
the worse place too because of the lap cars you come up on.
-Larry
"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:DkVH8.20355$[email hidden]...
> Speaking of that (Bristol and papy servers), why the hell do people giveup
> all control of the car on the first lap of a race in exchange for one ortwo
> better positions that they only hold for about four seconds before they
> completely lose it and make a big damned mess? Over and over and overagain
> I have seen it happen today and yesterday. I let em by, they still manageto
> screw me up. I am done with those tracks. It is a joke. The only thingabout
> my rating that changed was lpi.
>
> "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]...
> > I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2days
> > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed theguy
have
I
> > DID
> > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize forit.
> > I
> > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
> > >
> > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and willrespond
> > back
> > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referringto.
> > >
> > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I wentinside
> > of
> > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chanceto
> > > think about it.
> > >
> > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> butt
> > at
> > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he feltit
used
event
liked
Quoted text (24 lines)
> in > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > > particularly > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get > some > > > laps in. > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn'tQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm > sorry, > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > > were > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > > whatever > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and ifQuoted text (20 lines)
> > was > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. > As > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting > to > > be > > > a bit much. > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > > Loudon > > > race as well. > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > going > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the languageQuoted text (11 lines)
> > and > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > doing. > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in > what > > I > > > saw today. > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RASQuoted text (10 lines)
> > for > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > > enough, > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would haveQuoted text (12 lines)
> to > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >That's what I normally do.
In this case, my spotter was _very_ insistent. He threatened me with a Tire
Iron!
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes
> place at the line/pit entrance.
>
> I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you'rewhere
> you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, trypassing
and
needed
flagged
are,
Drama
ear
> > > > > constantly
> > > > > > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slowup,
was
did,
a
practice
> at
> > > > Indy.
> > > > > > As
> > > > > > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouthwas
the
> > RAS
> > > > > event
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a partof
> > it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civiltongue
Quoted text (10 lines)
> a car/pace car. > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no > message, keep going. > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before,Quoted text (11 lines)
> > it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > > > -Larry > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault. > > It's > > > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace > car, > > > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else whoQuoted text (16 lines)
> to > > > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > > > > > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace > car), > > > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed > the > > > message, etc. > > > > > > After that, not to many codes around could handle the situation :) > The > > > spotter AI could be yelling over and over, but if the human doesn't > > respond, > > > that's that. > > > > > > You are correct in staying put; otherwise you would have beenQuoted text (19 lines)
> > for > > > passing under yellow(other cars, not the pace car). > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:2gVH8.75002$[email hidden]... > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Yes, I do believe this is what occured. > > > > > > > > Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ? > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chancesQuoted text (17 lines)
> > the > > > > cars > > > > > ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But > since > > > the > > > > > car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay > in > > > > line. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]... > > > > > > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all theQuoted text (14 lines)
> > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I > > > understand > > > > > now > > > > > > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have > > been > > > > done > > > > > > about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up > to > > > that > > > > > > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in myQuoted text (42 lines)
> > let > > > > him > > > > > > pass! It was all so confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just > > decided > > > > to > > > > > > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > Papy needs to work on this. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great... > > > > > > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers > for > > 2 > > > > > days > > > > > > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the > pace > > > car > > > > on > > > > > > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have > passed > > > the > > > > > guy > > > > > > in > > > > > > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. > Would > > > > there > > > > > > > have been one if I had? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. IQuoted text (23 lines)
> > > > looking > > > > > > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. > People > > > who > > > > I > > > > > > > > thought respected others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm > not > > > > > > > particularly > > > > > > > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and > just > > > get > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > laps in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and > > didn't > > > > > have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If IQuoted text (38 lines)
> > I'm > > > > > > sorry, > > > > > > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole > race. > > > If > > > > we > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, > air, > > > or > > > > > > > whatever > > > > > > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a > thing, > > > and > > > > if > > > > > I > > > > > > > DID > > > > > > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to > apologize > > > for > > > > > it. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was > > > V-something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and > will > > > > > respond > > > > > > > back > > > > > > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are > > > referring > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I > > went > > > > > inside > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I hadQuoted text (17 lines)
> > > > chance > > > > > to > > > > > > > > think about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was > > riding > > > my > > > > > > butt > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye > he > > > felt > > > > > it > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me duringQuoted text (38 lines)
> > > > getting > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this > durning > > > the > > > > > > > Loudon > > > > > > > > race as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't > > rank > > > > the > > > > > > > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments > that > > > were > > > > > > going > > > > > > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the > > language > > > > > used > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even > think > > of > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely > > disappointed > > > in > > > > > > what > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > saw today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruinedQuoted text (30 lines)
> > > isn't > > > > > > > enough, > > > > > > > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would > > have > > > > > liked > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I was mid-pack, with a bunch of lapped cars in front of me, so I pitted at
two of the yellows. Wasn't much to lose.
Worked out ok. Car was good at the end.
-Larry
"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FqVH8.20358$[email hidden]...
> I did not think I would go that many laps on the same set of tires.
>
>
>
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
>
> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
> thought respected others.
Normally that is what you'd get, I don't know what happened tonight but
there was a feeling of tension.
>
> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notparticularly
> fast at flat tracks.
Was my first time at Loudon as well, something about the track must suit my
driving ;)
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
I haven't had chance to look through the replay yet, but will certainly
give you the benefit of the doubt (at the very least) until I do ;)
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
That's what practice is for <G>
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
I *think* John was just messing about.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
> race as well.
I seem to remember that too. There was that much chatting I basically
ignored most of it.
>
> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> privilage of speaking my mind.
I'm by no means one of the good old boys, in fact I am very new to NASCAR
racing, but I would also speak my mind if I was in your position.
I think a good idea may be to use a *real* name when racing in RASCAR,
people tend to be suspicious of drivers with *fake* names unless they're
known to them.
>
> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going
> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedand
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
Again I tend to agree. Maybe it's to do with the fake name ?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
> then I sure don't know what is.
>
> I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.
To be honest, it does seem like an over reaction that you wre kicked from
the server, but maybe it was because the tension was high.
>
> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to
> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
Thanks, it was my first RASCAR win :)
Indy was also a great race, apart from the final lap when all hell broke
loose on the restart. I don't think a single car made it through.
Mike was once again blisteringly fast, but I think his tyres had gone away
and on the restart he had a brief moment where he had to lift and got a bit
sideways. I didn't have much time to react so I just went low, unfortunately
he came down the track, we tangled and we both got collected by the #7 car
who had chosen the gap in the middle line. Then every other car on the track
got caught up in it.
I even managed to hit the pacecar as it was leaving pit lane, which was
lucky because it flipped me back onto my wheels so I could just grab a 3rd
place finish :)
>
> -Larry
>
>
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
I was near you a lot of the race (DaveGF) and I didn't notice you do
anything wrong. I said so during the race.
I just finished looking at the replay and you didn't cause one incident the
whole race, except for the time you and Jan warped, which didn't even bring
out a yellow.
I think you're owed an apology by some people and should stay in the RASCAR
races.
David G Fisher
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
particularly
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, orwhatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if IDID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > thought respected others. > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notQuoted text (8 lines)
> fast at flat tracks. > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some > laps in. > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If weQuoted text (7 lines)
> race as well. > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > privilage of speaking my mind. > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedQuoted text (10 lines)
> then I sure don't know what is. > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > -Larry > >Agreed.
--
ed_
(#5 Ed_Solheim)
"David G Fisher" said:
> I was near you a lot of the race (DaveGF) and I didn't notice you do
> anything wrong. I said so during the race.
>
> I just finished looking at the replay and you didn't cause one incident
the
> whole race, except for the time you and Jan warped, which didn't even
bring
> out a yellow.
>
> I think you're owed an apology by some people and should stay in the
RASCAR
> races.
>
> David G Fisher
>
In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry"
<[email hidden]> writes:
There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it directed at
you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during yellow. You
said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen to my
spotter instead of YOU...
Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that continue
throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem. Chalk it
up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll have to check
the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned from the
server, just kicked out of THAT race.
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (19 lines)
>Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my butt at >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it was >necessary to come after me verbally. > >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to be >a bit much. > >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the Loudon >race as well. > >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the >privilage of speaking my mind. > >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used and >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing. >Yet _I_ get ejected? >In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast"
<[email hidden]> writes:
For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I didn't hear
ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims would
tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so whoever
was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew anything
was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace line. I
expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased past both
him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the
field.
One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the
cause...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (35 lines)
> :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes >place at the line/pit entrance. > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're where >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try passing >a car/pace car. > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no >message, keep going. > >-John > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before, and >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) >> >> -Larry >> >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault. >> It's >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace >car, >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who needed >to >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> >> > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace >car), >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed >the >> > message, etc.Ian,
Thanks for the input :)
First Loudon race? Wow, you are a natural at flat tracks. You were FAST!
I had a 4th place car, and in fact was in 4th place at one time, but I
decided to let up and let several cars pass me. I just stayed high going in
and let them go.
Why?
Around 2/3 of the way in, I developed some sort of weird problem with my
frame rates. I started the race running in the 50's, and by the 2/3 point I
was down into the TEENS!
I was having a hard time really feeling the car because of this, and I
didn't want to cause anything. There wasn't a lot of positions to lose, so
I just let the other 3 guys pass me without putting up much of a fight.
I now know what caused that. There is a notice on WON when you log in
indicating this is a known problem with the D3D render DLL in the last
NR2002 update, and it indicates you should replace the DLL with the one from
the CD.
I will do so, but I switched back to OpenGL instead. I just prefer the look
and performance of the OpenGL renderer.
All I need to do now is fix that blasted 60hz refresh rate problem. It's
been tough since NVRefFix died, and I haven't found a good utility yet to
fix it. I tried the NVHardPage fix I downloaded, but it isn't working for
some reason.
Some of the other utilities out are kind of complicated and I need to study
them more. What I'd really like to see is another simple, single-purpose
utility like NVRefFix because it short, sweet and simple and was a great
utility.
I'm not sure why the author let it die off after that particluar Det4 driver
broke it. Maybe it got to complex to fix the refresh rate using the method
NVRefFix was using.
Again, congratulations on the win!
Oh, btw... I normally do race with my normal online name which most people
know (LTB-RACER), but I just recently started running NR2002 and I've been
holding off on using my primary screen name until I get all my setups
squared away. I'm getting killed at Dega and Tona right now, and I don't
want to screw up my rankings until I figure out what's wrong. Little-GTO is
my practice name.
To be honest, I don't think the name should make a difference :)
-Larry
"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:acpad2$ats$[email hidden]...
my
butt
As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Again I tend to agree. Maybe it's to do with the fake name ?
>
> >
> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
bit
> sideways. I didn't have much time to react so I just went low,unfortunately
> he came down the track, we tangled and we both got collected by the #7 car
> who had chosen the gap in the middle line. Then every other car on thetrack
Quoted text (17 lines)
> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > thought respected others. > > Normally that is what you'd get, I don't know what happened tonight but > there was a feeling of tension. > > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > particularly > > fast at flat tracks. > > Was my first time at Loudon as well, something about the track must suitQuoted text (22 lines)
> driving ;) > > > > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond > back > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. > > I haven't had chance to look through the replay yet, but will certainly > give you the benefit of the doubt (at the very least) until I do ;) > > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside > of > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to > > think about it. > > That's what practice is for <G> > > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (9 lines)
> at > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it > was > > necessary to come after me verbally. > > I *think* John was just messing about. > > > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.Quoted text (22 lines)
> be > > a bit much. > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > race as well. > > I seem to remember that too. There was that much chatting I basically > ignored most of it. > > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > I'm by no means one of the good old boys, in fact I am very new to NASCAR > racing, but I would also speak my mind if I was in your position. > I think a good idea may be to use a *real* name when racing in RASCAR, > people tend to be suspicious of drivers with *fake* names unless they're > known to them. > > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (17 lines)
> I > > saw today. > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > for > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > enough, > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > To be honest, it does seem like an over reaction that you wre kicked from > the server, but maybe it was because the tension was high. > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (7 lines)
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > Thanks, it was my first RASCAR win :) > Indy was also a great race, apart from the final lap when all hell broke > loose on the restart. I don't think a single car made it through. > Mike was once again blisteringly fast, but I think his tyres had gone away > and on the restart he had a brief moment where he had to lift and got aQuoted text (16 lines)
> got caught up in it. > I even managed to hit the pacecar as it was leaving pit lane, which was > lucky because it flipped me back onto my wheels so I could just grab a 3rd > place finish :) > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > >David,
I fully intend on giving it another try.
Watch, I'll have a bad day and take out half the field next time :)
Thanks :)
-Larry
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:86WH8.19073$[email hidden]...
> I was near you a lot of the race (DaveGF) and I didn't notice you do
> anything wrong. I said so during the race.
>
> I just finished looking at the replay and you didn't cause one incidentthe
> whole race, except for the time you and Jan warped, which didn't evenbring
> out a yellow.
>
> I think you're owed an apology by some people and should stay in theRASCAR
some
> > laps in.
> >
> > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't havea
> > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'msorry,
butt
> at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.
> >
> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >
> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
Quoted text (17 lines)
> races. > > David G Fisher > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > thought respected others. > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > particularly > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just getQuoted text (20 lines)
> > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > were > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > whatever > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I > DID > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. > I > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond > back > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside > of > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to > > think about it. > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (11 lines)
> be > > a bit much. > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > race as well. > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (14 lines)
> I > > saw today. > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > for > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > enough, > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (7 lines)
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > -Larry > > > > > >Eldred,
I say this in a nice manner :)
You _were_ wrong :)
Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People driving backwards.
Sustained use of bad lanquage.
No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status during those races.
No one.
I was assumed guilty of something booted.
Please think about that :)
-Larry
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry"
> <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> >Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> >necessary to come after me verbally.
> >
> >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> >a bit much.
> >
> >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
> >race as well.
> >
> >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> >privilage of speaking my mind.
> >
> >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that weregoing
> >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedand
> >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> >Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >
>
> There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it directedat
> you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during yellow.You
> said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen to my
> spotter instead of YOU...
> Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that continue
> throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem.Chalk it
> up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll have tocheck
cure
> breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned from the > server, just kicked out of THAT race. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research toI would like to thank those who came forward with their views of today's
events, and your support. It makes me feel better about trying again, and
that the RASCAR races can be fun and a welcome diversion from the usual
nonsense that typically comes with open racing.
My wish is that we all learned something from it. I know I did :)
Thanks again :)
-Larry
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
particularly
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, orwhatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if IDID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > thought respected others. > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notQuoted text (8 lines)
> fast at flat tracks. > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some > laps in. > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If weQuoted text (7 lines)
> race as well. > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > privilage of speaking my mind. > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedQuoted text (10 lines)
> then I sure don't know what is. > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > -Larry > > Fwiw Larry, it's his server. He can do whatever he wants with it. If he
wants to eject someone because he doesn't like their hair, that's his
prerogative.
Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, at least IMO.
-John
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:DuXH8.76898$[email hidden]...
races.
butt
to
doing.
> > >Yet _I_ get ejected?
> > >
> >
> > There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of itdirected
> at
> > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during yellow.
> You
> > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen tomy
> > spotter instead of YOU...
> > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have thatcontinue
> > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem.
> Chalk it
> > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll haveto
> check
> > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned fromthe
> > server, just kicked out of THAT race.
> >
> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for researchto
> cure
> > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea
> > donation. Thank you.
> >
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>
>
Quoted text (10 lines)
> Eldred, > > I say this in a nice manner :) > > You _were_ wrong :) > > Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People driving backwards. > Sustained use of bad lanquage. > > No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status during thoseQuoted text (15 lines)
> No one. > > I was assumed guilty of something booted. > > Please think about that :) > > -Larry > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (8 lines)
> at > > >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it > was > > >necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. > As > > >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingQuoted text (15 lines)
> be > > >a bit much. > > > > > >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > >race as well. > > > > > >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > >privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > going > > >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used > and > > >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofAnd a fine server it was :)
The other part? Well, that's a debate best left for another millenium :)
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Fwiw Larry, it's his server. He can do whatever he wants with it. Ifhe
it
> > was
> > > >necessary to come after me verbally.
> > > >
> > > >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice atIndy.
> > As
> > > >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth wasgetting
used
yellow.
> > You
> > > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listento
make
Quoted text (39 lines)
> wants to eject someone because he doesn't like their hair, that's his > prerogative. > > Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, at least IMO. > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DuXH8.76898$[email hidden]... > > Eldred, > > > > I say this in a nice manner :) > > > > You _were_ wrong :) > > > > Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People driving backwards. > > Sustained use of bad lanquage. > > > > No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status during those > races. > > No one. > > > > I was assumed guilty of something booted. > > > > Please think about that :) > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my > butt > > at > > > >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he feltQuoted text (14 lines)
> to > > be > > > >a bit much. > > > > > > > >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > > Loudon > > > >race as well. > > > > > > > >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > > >privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were > > going > > > >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the languageQuoted text (10 lines)
> > and > > > >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > doing. > > > >Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it > directed > > at > > > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS duringQuoted text (20 lines)
> my > > > spotter instead of YOU... > > > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that > continue > > > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem. > > Chalk it > > > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll have > to > > check > > > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned from > the > > > server, just kicked out of THAT race. > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research > to > > cure > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how toQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > :) We'll agree to disagree on it then.
-John
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:uDXH8.76972$[email hidden]...
backwards.
my
> > butt
> > > at
> > > > >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye hefelt
the
> > > Loudon
> > > > >race as well.
> > > > >
> > > > >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rankthe
> > > > >privilage of speaking my mind.
> > > > >
> > > > >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments thatwere
problem.
> > > Chalk it
> > > > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'llhave
> > to
> > > check
> > > > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't bannedfrom
research
Quoted text (27 lines)
> And a fine server it was :) > > The other part? Well, that's a debate best left for another millenium :) > > -Larry > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Fwiw Larry, it's his server. He can do whatever he wants with it. If > he > > wants to eject someone because he doesn't like their hair, that's his > > prerogative. > > > > Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, at least IMO. > > > > -John > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DuXH8.76898$[email hidden]... > > > Eldred, > > > > > > I say this in a nice manner :) > > > > > > You _were_ wrong :) > > > > > > Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People drivingQuoted text (19 lines)
> > > Sustained use of bad lanquage. > > > > > > No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status during those > > races. > > > No one. > > > > > > I was assumed guilty of something booted. > > > > > > Please think about that :) > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > >Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was ridingQuoted text (14 lines)
> it > > > was > > > > >necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at > Indy. > > > As > > > > >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > getting > > to > > > be > > > > >a bit much. > > > > > > > > > >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durningQuoted text (22 lines)
> > > going > > > > >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language > used > > > and > > > > >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of > > doing. > > > > >Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it > > directed > > > at > > > > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during > yellow. > > > You > > > > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen > to > > my > > > > spotter instead of YOU... > > > > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that > > continue > > > > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as theQuoted text (7 lines)
> > the > > > > server, just kicked out of THAT race. > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > -- > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon forQuoted text (14 lines)
> > to > > > cure > > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to > make > > a > > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > >Absolutely :)
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
:)
> >
> > -Larry
> >
> > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
> > > Fwiw Larry, it's his server. He can do whatever he wants with it.If
those
language
> > used
> > > > and
> > > > > >temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even thinkof
listen
to
Quoted text (10 lines)
> :) We'll agree to disagree on it then. > > -John > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uDXH8.76972$[email hidden]... > > And a fine server it was :) > > > > The other part? Well, that's a debate best left for another milleniumQuoted text (22 lines)
> > he > > > wants to eject someone because he doesn't like their hair, that's his > > > prerogative. > > > > > > Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, at least IMO. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:DuXH8.76898$[email hidden]... > > > > Eldred, > > > > > > > > I say this in a nice manner :) > > > > > > > > You _were_ wrong :) > > > > > > > > Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People driving > backwards. > > > > Sustained use of bad lanquage. > > > > > > > > No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status duringQuoted text (47 lines)
> > > races. > > > > No one. > > > > > > > > I was assumed guilty of something booted. > > > > > > > > Please think about that :) > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > > > >Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding > my > > > butt > > > > at > > > > > >Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he > felt > > it > > > > was > > > > > >necessary to come after me verbally. > > > > > > > > > > > >And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at > > Indy. > > > > As > > > > > >best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was > > getting > > > to > > > > be > > > > > >a bit much. > > > > > > > > > > > >And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning > the > > > > Loudon > > > > > >race as well. > > > > > > > > > > > >But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank > the > > > > > >privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > >Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that > were > > > > going > > > > > >on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of theQuoted text (11 lines)
> > > doing. > > > > > >Yet _I_ get ejected? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it > > > directed > > > > at > > > > > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during > > yellow. > > > > You > > > > > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it IQuoted text (25 lines)
> > to > > > my > > > > > spotter instead of YOU... > > > > > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that > > > continue > > > > > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the > problem. > > > > Chalk it > > > > > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll > have > > > to > > > > check > > > > > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned > from > > > the > > > > > server, just kicked out of THAT race. > > > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > -- > > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for > research > > > to > > > > cure > > > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see howQuoted text (13 lines)
> > make > > > a > > > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:22VH8.74920$[email hidden]...
> Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantomincident
> during the Loudon race.
>
> And I found it. What you have said sounds consistant, but I should warn you that
different replays of the same incident will have markedly different views.
THe Papy replay has always been centered on the single online car, thus
everything around it kinda gets guessed at. Your replay may show a clean
turn, Jan's may demostrate his being blocked and clubbed.
The warping replay means somebodies connection wasn't top-notch but not
always the other car.
Good luck sorting this out..
dave henrie
FYI Larry, this is something we've been dealing with for a very long
time. The page below shows a clear example dating all the way back to
N3.
http://www.nasscar.com/online/warp.html
The deciding factor is a server replay. It almost always shows the
true picture of what happened.
On Sat, 25 May 2002 23:23:42 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Tim Wortman
North American Simulation Series
www.nasscar.com
Quoted text (145 lines)
>Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom incident >during the Loudon race. > >And I found it. > >In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you will see why. > >And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain that I >did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it. > >If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too. > >This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race. The other car >involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren. > >The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, the 8 >car. Then go to the Rear Chase view. > >When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance >buttons. > >It is very clear what happened. > >You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line all around >the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches. A little high >off the line, but reasonable. > >However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right. Quite a >bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving. > >It was due to warp. > >This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing. My car made a >smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back and forth. >Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused >by warp. > >I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched. I would have to >believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at least bobbled >if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the >slightest. > >It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due to the >warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time. > >I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, but in >this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had no choice. > >No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things we have to live >with in online racing. > >The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff before they >paint a bullseye on someone. > >We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way. > >JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :) > >Thanks :) > >-Larry > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... >> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... >> >> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking >> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I >> thought respected others. >> >> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not >particularly >> fast at flat tracks. >> >> So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some >> laps in. >> >> I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a >> scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, >> but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we >were >> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or >whatever >> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I >DID >> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. >I >> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. >> >> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond >back >> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. >> >> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside >of >> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to >> think about it. >> >> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my butt >at >> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it >was >> necessary to come after me verbally. >> >> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As >> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to >be >> a bit much. >> >> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the >Loudon >> race as well. >> >> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the >> privilage of speaking my mind. >> >> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going >> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used >and >> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing. >> Yet _I_ get ejected? >> >> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in what >I >> saw today. >> >> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event >for >> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. >> >> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't >enough, >> then I sure don't know what is. >> >> I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. >> >> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to >> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. >> >> -Larry >> >> > >Even if he did make a mistake and hit Jan, it was just a minor racing
incident (didn't even draw a yellow flag) and that's all. He didn't make any
other mistakes, and may have actually been the cleanest driver during the
whole race. :-)
People ganged up on him a bit for absolutely no reason.
David G Fisher
"TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
incident
I
8
around
> >the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches. A littlehigh
forth.
> >Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was beingcaused
> >by warp.
> >
> >I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched. I would haveto
> >believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at leastbobbled
> >if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the
> >slightest.
> >
> >It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due tothe
> >warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time.
> >
> >I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, butin
> >this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had nochoice.
> >
> >No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things we have tolive
> >with in online racing.
> >
> >The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff beforethey
some
> >> laps in.
> >>
> >> I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't havea
> >> scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'msorry,
> >> but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we
> >were
> >> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> >whatever
> >> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and ifI
> >DID
> >> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize forit.
> >I
> >> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
> >>
> >> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond
> >back
> >> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referringto.
> >>
> >> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I wentinside
> >of
> >> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chanceto
> >> think about it.
> >>
> >> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding mybutt
> >at
> >> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> >was
> >> necessary to come after me verbally.
> >>
> >> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> >> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> >> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> >and
> >> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> >> Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >>
> >> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
Quoted text (12 lines)
> FYI Larry, this is something we've been dealing with for a very long > time. The page below shows a clear example dating all the way back to > N3. > > http://www.nasscar.com/online/warp.html > > The deciding factor is a server replay. It almost always shows the > true picture of what happened. > > On Sat, 25 May 2002 23:23:42 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantomQuoted text (7 lines)
> >during the Loudon race. > > > >And I found it. > > > >In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you will see why. > > > >And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain thatQuoted text (8 lines)
> >did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it. > > > >If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too. > > > >This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race. The other car > >involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren. > > > >The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, theQuoted text (8 lines)
> >car. Then go to the Rear Chase view. > > > >When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance > >buttons. > > > >It is very clear what happened. > > > >You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line allQuoted text (9 lines)
> >off the line, but reasonable. > > > >However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right. Quite a > >bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving. > > > >It was due to warp. > > > >This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing. My car made a > >smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back andQuoted text (24 lines)
> >paint a bullseye on someone. > > > >We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way. > > > >JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :) > > > >Thanks :) > > > >-Larry > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > >> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > >> > >> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > >> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > >> thought respected others. > >> > >> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > >particularly > >> fast at flat tracks. > >> > >> So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just getQuoted text (11 lines)
> >be > >> a bit much. > >> > >> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > >Loudon > >> race as well. > >> > >> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > >> privilage of speaking my mind. > >> > >> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (14 lines)
> >I > >> saw today. > >> > >> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > >for > >> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > >> > >> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > >enough, > >> then I sure don't know what is. > >> > >> I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > >> > >> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (13 lines)
> >> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > >> > >> -Larry > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Tim Wortman > North American Simulation Series > www.nasscar.comI never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few cars
between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off on my
own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received a
penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of us
not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off a
bit.
I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the wall,
crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.
David G Fisher
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
where
> >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, trypassing
and
needed
hear
> ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# simswould
> tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, sowhoever
> was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knewanything
> was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the paceline. I
> expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased pastboth
cure
> breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes > >place at the line/pit entrance. > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you'reQuoted text (10 lines)
> >a car/pace car. > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no > >message, keep going. > > > >-John > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before,Quoted text (11 lines)
> >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > >> > >> -Larry > >> > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:[email hidden]... > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault. > >> It's > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace > >car, > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else whoQuoted text (10 lines)
> >to > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > >> > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace > >car), > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed > >the > >> > message, etc. > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I didn'tQuoted text (9 lines)
> him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the > field. > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the > cause... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you
were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't supposed
to pass.
-John
p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was just
trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the future
:)
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n__H8.24640$%[email hidden]...
> I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a fewcars
> between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off onmy
> own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received a
> penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some ofus
takes
no
before,
fault.
> > >> It's
> > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind thepace
pace
> > >car),
> > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but justmissed
> > >the
> > >> > message, etc.
> >
> > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. Ididn't
past
> both
> > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoinedthe
> > field.
> > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* wasthe
> > cause...
> >
> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for researchto
> cure
> > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea
> > donation. Thank you.
> >
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>
>
Quoted text (15 lines)
> not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off a > bit. > > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the wall, > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway. > > David G Fisher > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everythingQuoted text (8 lines)
> > >place at the line/pit entrance. > > > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're > where > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > passing > > >a car/pace car. > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. IfQuoted text (8 lines)
> > >message, keep going. > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happenQuoted text (8 lines)
> and > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > >> > > >> -Larry > > >> > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim'sQuoted text (7 lines)
> > >car, > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who > needed > > >to > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > >> > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass theQuoted text (10 lines)
> hear > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims > would > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so > whoever > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew > anything > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace > line. I > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I easedI understand what you are saying, but this one is pretty clear. It was an
incident caused by warp.
-Larry
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:57ZH8.32246$352.2541@sccrnsc02...
Quoted text (19 lines)
> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:22VH8.74920$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom > incident > > during the Loudon race. > > > > And I found it. > What you have said sounds consistant, but I should warn you that > different replays of the same incident will have markedly different views. > THe Papy replay has always been centered on the single online car, thus > everything around it kinda gets guessed at. Your replay may show a clean > turn, Jan's may demostrate his being blocked and clubbed. > The warping replay means somebodies connection wasn't top-notch but not > always the other car. > Good luck sorting this out.. > dave henrie > > P.p.s <G> Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point. Just was
trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/people did
things a certain way, during the race.
-John
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you
> were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren'tsupposed
> to pass.
>
> -John
>
> p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post wasjust
> trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in thefuture
on
> my
> > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of receiveda
> > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of
> us
> > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me offa
> > bit.
> >
> > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit thewall,
aren't
> > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything
> takes
> > > >place at the line/pit entrance.
> > > >
> > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long asyou're
make
Quoted text (8 lines)
> :) > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n__H8.24640$%[email hidden]... > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few > cars > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone offQuoted text (10 lines)
> > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these racesQuoted text (69 lines)
> > where > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > > passing > > > >a car/pace car. > > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If > no > > > >message, keep going. > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen > before, > > and > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > > >> > > > >> -Larry > > > >> > > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's > fault. > > > >> It's > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the > pace > > > >car, > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who > > needed > > > >to > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > > >> > > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the > pace > > > >car), > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just > missed > > > >the > > > >> > message, etc. > > > > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I > didn't > > hear > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims > > would > > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so > > whoever > > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew > > anything > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace > > line. I > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased > past > > both > > > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined > the > > > field. > > > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was > the > > > cause... > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research > to > > cure > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how toQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > >John,
Your input is appreciated :) Thanks!
-Larry
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> P.p.s <G> Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point. Just was
> trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/peopledid
received
> a
> > > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about someof
> > us
> > > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed meoff
If
the
> > pace
> > > > >car,
> > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone elsewho
sims
> > > would
> > > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
> > > whoever
> > > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
> > > anything
> > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in thepace
> > > line. I
> > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, Ieased
> > past
> > > both
> > > > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around andrejoined
> > the
> > > > field.
> > > > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I*was
research
Quoted text (30 lines)
> things a certain way, during the race. > > -John > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you > > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't > supposed > > to pass. > > > > -John > > > > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race, > > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was > just > > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the > future > > :) > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:n__H8.24640$%[email hidden]... > > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few > > cars > > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off > on > > my > > > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would ofQuoted text (27 lines)
> a > > > bit. > > > > > > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the > wall, > > > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races > aren't > > > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything > > takes > > > > >place at the line/pit entrance. > > > > > > > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as > you're > > > where > > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > > > passing > > > > >a car/pace car. > > > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.Quoted text (21 lines)
> > no > > > > >message, keep going. > > > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen > > before, > > > and > > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > > > >> > > > > >> -Larry > > > > >> > > > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's > > fault. > > > > >> It's > > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behindQuoted text (16 lines)
> > > needed > > > > >to > > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the > > pace > > > > >car), > > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just > > missed > > > > >the > > > > >> > message, etc. > > > > > > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I > > didn't > > > hear > > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N#Quoted text (7 lines)
> > the > > > > cause... > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > -- > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon forQuoted text (14 lines)
> > to > > > cure > > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to > make > > a > > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > >So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the
other two cars? :-)
Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing
the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked
out.
It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that's what
I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to screw up and
penalize us in that situation.
Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellow laps,
then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had no idea
what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyone else's.
I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all
straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and if everyone
would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice
during that caution also.
No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no
penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us and do
their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the same penalty
we (the non-complainers :-) ) were.
David G Fisher
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you
> were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren'tsupposed
> to pass.
>
> -John
>
> p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post wasjust
> trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in thefuture
on
> my
> > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of receiveda
> > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of
> us
> > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me offa
> > bit.
> >
> > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit thewall,
aren't
> > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything
> takes
> > > >place at the line/pit entrance.
> > > >
> > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long asyou're
make
Quoted text (8 lines)
> :) > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n__H8.24640$%[email hidden]... > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few > cars > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone offQuoted text (10 lines)
> > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these racesQuoted text (69 lines)
> > where > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > > passing > > > >a car/pace car. > > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If > no > > > >message, keep going. > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen > before, > > and > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > > >> > > > >> -Larry > > > >> > > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's > fault. > > > >> It's > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the > pace > > > >car, > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who > > needed > > > >to > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > > >> > > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the > pace > > > >car), > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just > missed > > > >the > > > >> > message, etc. > > > > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I > didn't > > hear > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims > > would > > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so > > whoever > > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew > > anything > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace > > line. I > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased > past > > both > > > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined > the > > > field. > > > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was > the > > > cause... > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research > to > > cure > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how toQuoted text (8 lines)
> a > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > >In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside of
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
It was me that you took out in practice. Hence the following:
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my butt at
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it was
> necessary to come after me verbally.
If I recall, I rode Mike Grandy's and Ed's butt a little too(at Indy),
but they took it as it was meant - just a poke in the ribs.
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to be
> a bit much.
I was surprised to see that (and I'm not sure I agree with it, but hey,
it's Eldred's server and he can do as he pleases). I thought you just
got mad and quit. Just so you know, I'm *always* a bit much.
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the Loudon
> race as well.
I think that was Ed. On the other hand, it could have been anybody.
> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> privilage of speaking my mind.
All you gotta do is have a humor gland surgically implanted. I'm sure
if you had demonstrated any amount of ability to laugh at yourself and
at others, it would have gone a different way.
Eldred said you were just ejected (and not banned), so if you want to,
come on back.
--
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Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
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In article <86WH8.19073$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Well, I ain't apologizing to anyone, but if he wants to keep racing with
us, that's fine by me. He's just gotta grow a thicker skin.
When I see someone (that I've nevcer seen race before) over-drive into a
corner in practice or warm-up, I can only assume that's how he's
probably going to drive in the race, so I'm gonna be a bit indignant.
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=========================================================
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Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
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Quoted text (10 lines)
> I was near you a lot of the race (DaveGF) and I didn't notice you do > anything wrong. I said so during the race. > > I just finished looking at the replay and you didn't cause one incident the > whole race, except for the time you and Jan warped, which didn't even bring > out a yellow. > > I think you're owed an apology by some people and should stay in the RASCAR > races. >In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
I was just pokin' him in the ribs, and he got pissy. I wouldn't exactly
call it an argument.
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Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
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If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
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=========================================================
Quoted text (9 lines)
> There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it directed at > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during yellow. You > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen to my > spotter instead of YOU... > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that continue > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem. Chalk it > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll have to check > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned from the > server, just kicked out of THAT race.In article <n02I8.22201$[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
The problem was that Ed was behind you, and I was behind Ed. I was
being told to stay behind Ed, but to also pass the pace car. Ed was
being told to stay behind you, but to pass the pace car.
I think the whole thing would have been fixed if Ed had gone ahead and
passed the pace car and come around and gotten behind you again.
None of the rest of us could pass the pace car unless Ed did, or we
would have been black-flagged for passing under yellow. Ed was conerned
that he would have been black-flagged for the same thing if he passed
you.
If we had passed the pace car and been black-flagged for doing so, we
would most likely have ended up a lap down. However, not doing anything
at all guaranteed that outcome anyway.
The problem with the speeding up and dropping back cars was the
confusing spotter messages and not knowing quite what to do about it.
Ed may have been a bit frustrated thinking you were also getting the
"pass the pace car" spotter message. In the end 9and as you have
already cited) the rascar roster page states that you should always
follow your spotter's instructions. If those instructions result in a
penalty or weird positioning on the track, so be it.
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http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast
If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
Quoted text (23 lines)
> So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the > other two cars? :-) > > Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing > the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked > out. > > It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that's what > I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to screw up and > penalize us in that situation. > > Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellow laps, > then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had no idea > what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyone else's. > I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all > straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and if everyone > would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice > during that caution also. > > No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no > penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us and do > their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the same penalty > we (the non-complainers :-) ) were.Hi John,
please keep sharing your knowledge about these rule related matters.
For me, everything you've said so far in that respect was utterly
informative and helpful. I couldn't find information similarly up-to-date
and pertaining to actual, current events (and hence similarly intelligible
and digestible to a Nascar Newbie) anywhere else.
I've read all your comments with interest and profound gratefulness, and if
you'd give me advice in a race, I'd be even more grateful!
I don't think Dave was referring to your posts. Please keep posting!
Achim
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> P.p.s <G> Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point. Just was
> trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/peopledid
Quoted text (20 lines)
> things a certain way, during the race. > > -John > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you > > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't > supposed > > to pass. > > > > -John > > > > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race, > > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was > just > > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the > future > > :) What Joachim said<G> Don't worry about what others are saying, unless you
asked them for info. Personally, I know some are new to the Nascar sims, so
I keep that in mind. It's no big deal to me.......part of the fun actually.
No need for someone to get upset about any newbies IMO. I left before the
race was over, so no wonder I missed any comments.
Re the first part of your post, like I said, they couldn't go by you, and
STAY past you, just like you couldn't _stay_ passed on someone. You can
pass all you want under yellow, but if you're not supposed to, your spotter
will still yack away at you.
What matters, is being in the position you're supposed to be in, before
you cross the s/f line and/or the pit entrance, if cars are pitting. That's
when you'd get a penalty.
Think of when you get an end of the line penalty. You come out of the
pits, you always are ahead of someone you need to let by. So, you slow and
let everyone by and there's no problem, even though you were at one time
ahead of them in line.
Same thing at some tracks when you take the yellow. You pass a car or two
slowing up, after the line, etc. No big deal, as long as you're where your
spotter says to be before the above marks.
That's how some of the others were moving around, etc.; they knew where
they were supposed to be I imagine, and were just ignoring their spotter,
messing around.
However, everyone getting in line, etc. and staying there is the best
thing to do, for the reason you mention; all it leads to is accidents.
Also, fwiw, do NOT always obey your spotter<G> He'll say "You're clear"
when many times, you're not. But when it comes to yellow flag, lining up,
etc., then, yep, definately listen to him, like you did.
If you haven't already, watch a race or three(gasp !<G). The game does a
very good job of enforcing actual Nascar rules.
Hope this helps.
-John
p.s. thanks Joachim :)
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n02I8.22201$[email hidden]...
what
> I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to screw upand
> penalize us in that situation.
>
> Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellowlaps,
> then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had noidea
> what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyoneelse's.
> I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all
> straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and ifeveryone
> would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice
> during that caution also.
>
> No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no
> penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us anddo
> their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the samepenalty
received
> a
> > > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about someof
> > us
> > > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed meoff
If
the
> > pace
> > > > >car,
> > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone elsewho
sims
> > > would
> > > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
> > > whoever
> > > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
> > > anything
> > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in thepace
> > > line. I
> > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, Ieased
> > past
> > > both
> > > > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around andrejoined
> > the
> > > > field.
> > > > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I*was
research
Quoted text (8 lines)
> So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the > other two cars? :-) > > Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing > the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked > out. > > It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that'sQuoted text (29 lines)
> we (the non-complainers :-) ) were. > > David G Fisher > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you > > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't > supposed > > to pass. > > > > -John > > > > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race, > > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was > just > > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the > future > > :) > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:n__H8.24640$%[email hidden]... > > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few > > cars > > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off > on > > my > > > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would ofQuoted text (27 lines)
> a > > > bit. > > > > > > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the > wall, > > > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races > aren't > > > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything > > takes > > > > >place at the line/pit entrance. > > > > > > > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as > you're > > > where > > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > > > passing > > > > >a car/pace car. > > > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.Quoted text (21 lines)
> > no > > > > >message, keep going. > > > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen > > before, > > > and > > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > > > >> > > > > >> -Larry > > > > >> > > > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's > > fault. > > > > >> It's > > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behindQuoted text (16 lines)
> > > needed > > > > >to > > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the > > pace > > > > >car), > > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just > > missed > > > > >the > > > > >> > message, etc. > > > > > > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I > > didn't > > > hear > > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N#Quoted text (7 lines)
> > the > > > > cause... > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > -- > > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon forQuoted text (14 lines)
> > to > > > cure > > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to > make > > a > > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Dave,
you certainly did the right thing in obeying your spotter no matter what
others were saying, especially since you couldn't discern what of the things
being said was correct or not.
However, you also shouldn't be annoyed at them 'barking' a bit - after all,
this is a race and of course they're excited and hyped up, with adrenaline
flowing.
I find it - although unpleasant - understandable that some of the others got
a little excited when the newbies didn't do what the Nascar rules require.
I'm sure at that moment they weren't realising that this is one of the more
intricate issues within the Nascar ruleset and that less experienced drivers
simply wouldn't know, especially if their spotter doesn't say anything, or
even advises them as to the opposite.
Achim
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n02I8.22201$[email hidden]...
what
> I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to screw upand
> penalize us in that situation.
>
> Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellowlaps,
> then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had noidea
> what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyoneelse's.
> I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all
> straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and ifeveryone
> would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice
> during that caution also.
>
> No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no
> penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us anddo
> their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the samepenalty
> we (the non-complainers :-) ) were.
>
> David G Fisher
Quoted text (8 lines)
> So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the > other two cars? :-) > > Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing > the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked > out. > > It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that'sHi Dave,
while indeed a replay of for example a driver who's being accused of having
caused an incident may not show precisely what another driver involved saw
on his screen, it shows, however, whether that accused driver on his side
did anything wrong or not, as it clearly shows what _he_ saw.
Achim
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:57ZH8.32246$352.2541@sccrnsc02...
Quoted text (19 lines)
> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:22VH8.74920$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom > incident > > during the Loudon race. > > > > And I found it. > What you have said sounds consistant, but I should warn you that > different replays of the same incident will have markedly different views. > THe Papy replay has always been centered on the single online car, thus > everything around it kinda gets guessed at. Your replay may show a clean > turn, Jan's may demostrate his being blocked and clubbed. > The warping replay means somebodies connection wasn't top-notch but not > always the other car. > Good luck sorting this out.. > dave henrie > >Hi Tim,
IMO, the server replay doesn't show what really happened, as in these cases,
three equally true realities exist (wow, finally proof for that theory <g>).
The server replay shows what the server saw, but each of the replays of the
involved drivers shows what each of these drivers saw. Each replays only
shows based on what assumptions the local systems or server made their
decisions. But there is no 'true' replay. The server is only a common
denominator, nothing more.
In order to judge the actions of any of the drivers involved, you have to do
that based on their local replay.
Achim
"TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (8 lines)
> FYI Larry, this is something we've been dealing with for a very long > time. The page below shows a clear example dating all the way back to > N3. > > http://www.nasscar.com/online/warp.html > > The deciding factor is a server replay. It almost always shows the > true picture of what happened."Larry" wrote...
> Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this
> phantom incident during the Loudon race.
Ain't nothing phantom about getting the hood shoved in one's face, my
friend.
> And I found it.
The fact you didn't notice me going into the wall is pretty scary.
> In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you
> will see why.
Disagree. If, as you claim below, it was warp on my behalf, it's my fault
for not taking it into account enough.
One's always smooth in one's own replay, but that's beside the point.
> A little high off the line, but reasonable.
Hmmm... one would think one should stick close to the apron when overtaking.
One would at least expect the overtaking driver to apex T1. I made a
definate assumption as to the line you would take.
> However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right.
> Quite a bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's
> driving.
The name's Jan, BTW. Anyhow, this bit surprises me. You weren't position
warping much from my point of view. Otherwise I wouldn't have trusted to let
you go bye without going totally out of my way and risk unwanted attention
from people further behind. I.e. let you have the inside line but stay close
enough to slot in directly behind. Whatever you thought to gain by running
ahead of me at this point in the race escapes me at this moment, but I
considered you too much of a distraction to try and defend.
For reference... I didn't fall out of a tree in the online arena yesterday.
I've raced online for the past 3.5 years and I am acutely aware of all
things warp related. I check all competitors during practise, both in terms
of absolute latency (only possible in N2k2) and by watching them as they
drive (GPL habit). I also monitor my own connection. My ping was solid, so
was yours. You appeared solid to me, so did everyone else except #327, who I
had fairly little dealing with in the race.
You showed no signs of serious warping prior and after the accident. Only as
contact is made is your car showing "suspect" behaviour... partly
superimposing on me and clipping into the track in my replay. If, as you
say, you watched the entire replay you'll have noticed I got close to you on
further occasions without anything untowards happening.
> It was due to warp.
If this is true N2002, is a dangerous game. GPL habit leads me to believe
that if I'm warping, all other drivers should appear to warp to me. This was
not the case in this race. If I'm shown to be warping in the server replay,
the N2002 prediction code is capable of luring one into a false sense of
security. Something I will duly keep in mind for future events.
> This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing.
> My car made a smooth turn through the corners, but the
> 17 car was jerking back and forth. Again, this was not
> caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused
> by warp.
I'll check the server replay to verify whether I my connection was actually
poor or warping occurred on your machine only.
> I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched.
> I would have to believe I would have felt something, and
> my car would have at least bobbled if we did, but as you
> can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the slightest.
Believe it... we touched in my game. I don't just spear off into the wall
for fun. Come out from behind the nonsense E-mail address we'll exchange
clips.
I saw it like this... you were hassling me at a point in the race where not
much progression was possible. Similar to John, I already had a suspicion of
you being a little too eager but anyway, I got fed up with having to keep
and eye on you so decided I'd open the door for you so I could have some
piece and quiet until crunch time. You predictably went for the inside, so I
turn in on the high line. Suddenly there's tyre squeal, a thump and I'm in
the wall. On the replay you're a full car's width away from the racing line
and drifting up as we touch.
If I'm shown to warp severely in the server replay I will take back all I
said and apologise. If I'm steady.... well, I'm sorry, but it takes two to
tango. We had a misunderstanding in that turn about what consists the
"inside line" and, as the overtaking driver, that's half your fault.
You wouldn't have had to go the trouble had you recognised your part in the
incident. "Oh dear, did we touch? -Didn't feel a thing. _Sorry about that_"
was all that was required. I also think Eldred was a bit harsh on you (on
the other hand I also think it's his perogative to be harsh on people) and
I'm sorry you got ejected over the aftermath of this incident, but, as was
said at the time, you were "being an ass about it".
> No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things
> we have to live with in online racing.
Again, disagree. If it was warp on my behalf it's me who should apologise,
otherwise warp only served to hide the consequences of your actions to you.
> The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this
> stuff before they paint a bullseye on someone.
I didn't paint a bullseye on you. I aired my displeasure at what appeared to
me as your driving style. If you have actually watched the entire replay you
will notice I was in a position to repay the compliment a couple of times
later in the race, but I didn't. Might be my imagination, but you seemed a
lot more carefull around me in those situations.
> We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way.
It's racing... it's not meant to be fun.<g>
> JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)
Let's agree to disagree on that one. ;-)
Jan.
=---
Quoted text (9 lines)
> And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain > that I did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never > felt it. <snip> > > It is very clear what happened. > > You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent > line all around the corner and really didn't waver as much > as a few inches.Quoted text (7 lines)
> It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the > spin, due to the warp that the 17 car was experiencing at > the time. > > I normally don't go through this much effort for something > like this, but in this case, given what transpired afterwards, > I felt I really had no choice.
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> For reference... I didn't fall out of a tree in the online arenayesterday.
> I've raced online for the past 3.5 years and I am acutely aware of all
> things warp related. I check all competitors during practise, both interms
> of absolute latency (only possible in N2k2) and by watching them as they
> drive (GPL habit). I also monitor my own connection. My ping was solid, so
> was yours. You appeared solid to me, so did everyone else except #327, whoI
> had fairly little dealing with in the race.
Jan, I'll keep out of the rest of this argument (!!), but you seemed to be
warping to me in praccy..you ran behind me for a while and were coming in
and out a lot....
Larry, don't take their ranting and raving personal. Some people race,
others talk about it. I thought you ran a good race and didn't see any
problem with your driving. They should have been busting my balls, I stunk
up the first race and then caused a big wreck while leading with one to go
at Indy. Just one of those days. You can turn chat off then you don't have
to listen to it. (-:
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
>
> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
> thought respected others.
>
> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
particularly
> fast at flat tracks.
>
> So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some
> laps in.
>
> I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a
> scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry,
> but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
whatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I
DID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.
I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond
back
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside
of
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my butt
at
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
was
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to
be
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
Loudon
> race as well.
>
> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> privilage of speaking my mind.
>
> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going
> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in what
I
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event
for
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
enough,
> then I sure don't know what is.
>
> I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.
>
> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to
> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
>
> -Larry
>
>
Exactly
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the
cars
> ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
> car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in
line.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -John
>
>
> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:y7VH8.74953$[email hidden]...
> > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)
> >
> > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand
> now
> > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been
done
> > about it.
> >
> > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
> constantly
> > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let
him
> > pass! It was all so confusing.
> >
> > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided
to
> > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.
> >
> > Papy needs to work on this.
> >
> > -Larry
> >
> > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:2OUH8.20323$[email hidden]...
> > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2
> days
> > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car
on
> > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
> guy
> > in
> > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would
there
> > > have been one if I had?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
> > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
> > > >
> > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was
looking
> > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who
I
> > > > thought respected others.
> > > >
> > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
> > > particularly
> > > > fast at flat tracks.
> > > >
> > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
> > some
> > > > laps in.
> > > >
> > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't
> have
> > a
> > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm
> > sorry,
> > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If
we
> > > were
> > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > > whatever
> > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and
if
> I
> > > DID
> > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for
> it.
> > > I
> > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
> > > >
> > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
> respond
> > > back
> > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring
> to.
> > > >
> > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went
> inside
> > > of
> > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a
chance
> to
> > > > think about it.
> > > >
> > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> > butt
> > > at
> > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt
> it
> > > was
> > > > necessary to come after me verbally.
> > > >
> > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at
Indy.
> > As
> > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was
getting
> > to
> > > be
> > > > a bit much.
> > > >
> > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> > > Loudon
> > > > race as well.
> > > >
> > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank
the
> > > > privilage of speaking my mind.
> > > >
> > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
> > going
> > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language
> used
> > > and
> > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
> > doing.
> > > > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> > > >
> > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in
> > what
> > > I
> > > > saw today.
> > > >
> > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS
> event
> > > for
> > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
> > > >
> > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> > > enough,
> > > > then I sure don't know what is.
> > > >
> > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have
> liked
> > to
> > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
> > > >
> > > > -Larry
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little
attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness.
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast"
> <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes
> >place at the line/pit entrance.
> >
> > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're
where
> >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
passing
> >a car/pace car.
> > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no
> >message, keep going.
> >
> >-John
> >
> >
> >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]...
> >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before,
and
> >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)
> >>
> >> -Larry
> >>
> >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email hidden]...
> >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault.
> >> It's
> >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace
> >car,
> >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
needed
> >to
> >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>
> >> >
> >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace
> >car),
> >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed
> >the
> >> > message, etc.
>
> For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I didn't
hear
> ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims
would
> tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
whoever
> was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
anything
> was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
line. I
> expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased past
both
> him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the
> field.
> One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the
> cause...
>
> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to
cure
> breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
It was a frickin warp, you were warping all race. Time to get over it and
move on. You guys have to remember we are racing from all over the world
with diffent connections.
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Larry" wrote...
> > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this
> > phantom incident during the Loudon race.
>
> Ain't nothing phantom about getting the hood shoved in one's face, my
> friend.
>
> > And I found it.
>
> The fact you didn't notice me going into the wall is pretty scary.
>
> > In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you
> > will see why.
>
> Disagree. If, as you claim below, it was warp on my behalf, it's my fault
> for not taking it into account enough.
>
> > And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain
> > that I did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never
> > felt it. <snip>
> >
> > It is very clear what happened.
> >
> > You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent
> > line all around the corner and really didn't waver as much
> > as a few inches.
>
> One's always smooth in one's own replay, but that's beside the point.
>
> > A little high off the line, but reasonable.
>
> Hmmm... one would think one should stick close to the apron when
overtaking.
> One would at least expect the overtaking driver to apex T1. I made a
> definate assumption as to the line you would take.
>
> > However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right.
> > Quite a bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's
> > driving.
>
> The name's Jan, BTW. Anyhow, this bit surprises me. You weren't position
> warping much from my point of view. Otherwise I wouldn't have trusted to
let
> you go bye without going totally out of my way and risk unwanted attention
> from people further behind. I.e. let you have the inside line but stay
close
> enough to slot in directly behind. Whatever you thought to gain by running
> ahead of me at this point in the race escapes me at this moment, but I
> considered you too much of a distraction to try and defend.
>
> For reference... I didn't fall out of a tree in the online arena
yesterday.
> I've raced online for the past 3.5 years and I am acutely aware of all
> things warp related. I check all competitors during practise, both in
terms
> of absolute latency (only possible in N2k2) and by watching them as they
> drive (GPL habit). I also monitor my own connection. My ping was solid, so
> was yours. You appeared solid to me, so did everyone else except #327, who
I
> had fairly little dealing with in the race.
>
> You showed no signs of serious warping prior and after the accident. Only
as
> contact is made is your car showing "suspect" behaviour... partly
> superimposing on me and clipping into the track in my replay. If, as you
> say, you watched the entire replay you'll have noticed I got close to you
on
> further occasions without anything untowards happening.
>
> > It was due to warp.
>
> If this is true N2002, is a dangerous game. GPL habit leads me to believe
> that if I'm warping, all other drivers should appear to warp to me. This
was
> not the case in this race. If I'm shown to be warping in the server
replay,
> the N2002 prediction code is capable of luring one into a false sense of
> security. Something I will duly keep in mind for future events.
>
> > This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing.
> > My car made a smooth turn through the corners, but the
> > 17 car was jerking back and forth. Again, this was not
> > caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused
> > by warp.
>
> I'll check the server replay to verify whether I my connection was
actually
> poor or warping occurred on your machine only.
>
> > I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched.
> > I would have to believe I would have felt something, and
> > my car would have at least bobbled if we did, but as you
> > can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the slightest.
>
> Believe it... we touched in my game. I don't just spear off into the wall
> for fun. Come out from behind the nonsense E-mail address we'll exchange
> clips.
>
> I saw it like this... you were hassling me at a point in the race where
not
> much progression was possible. Similar to John, I already had a suspicion
of
> you being a little too eager but anyway, I got fed up with having to keep
> and eye on you so decided I'd open the door for you so I could have some
> piece and quiet until crunch time. You predictably went for the inside, so
I
> turn in on the high line. Suddenly there's tyre squeal, a thump and I'm in
> the wall. On the replay you're a full car's width away from the racing
line
> and drifting up as we touch.
>
> If I'm shown to warp severely in the server replay I will take back all I
> said and apologise. If I'm steady.... well, I'm sorry, but it takes two to
> tango. We had a misunderstanding in that turn about what consists the
> "inside line" and, as the overtaking driver, that's half your fault.
>
> > It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the
> > spin, due to the warp that the 17 car was experiencing at
> > the time.
> >
> > I normally don't go through this much effort for something
> > like this, but in this case, given what transpired afterwards,
> > I felt I really had no choice.
>
> You wouldn't have had to go the trouble had you recognised your part in
the
> incident. "Oh dear, did we touch? -Didn't feel a thing. _Sorry about
that_"
> was all that was required. I also think Eldred was a bit harsh on you (on
> the other hand I also think it's his perogative to be harsh on people) and
> I'm sorry you got ejected over the aftermath of this incident, but, as was
> said at the time, you were "being an ass about it".
>
> > No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things
> > we have to live with in online racing.
>
> Again, disagree. If it was warp on my behalf it's me who should apologise,
> otherwise warp only served to hide the consequences of your actions to
you.
>
> > The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this
> > stuff before they paint a bullseye on someone.
>
> I didn't paint a bullseye on you. I aired my displeasure at what appeared
to
> me as your driving style. If you have actually watched the entire replay
you
> will notice I was in a position to repay the compliment a couple of times
> later in the race, but I didn't. Might be my imagination, but you seemed a
> lot more carefull around me in those situations.
>
> > We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way.
>
> It's racing... it's not meant to be fun.<g>
>
> > JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)
>
> Let's agree to disagree on that one. ;-)
>
> Jan.
> =---
>
>
You have been around me long enough John, you know I could care less and
just race. (-:
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
> says...
> > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...
> >
> > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside
of
> > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> > think about it.
>
> It was me that you took out in practice. Hence the following:
>
> > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
butt at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> If I recall, I rode Mike Grandy's and Ed's butt a little too(at Indy),
> but they took it as it was meant - just a poke in the ribs.
>
> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.
As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting
to be
> > a bit much.
>
> I was surprised to see that (and I'm not sure I agree with it, but hey,
> it's Eldred's server and he can do as he pleases). I thought you just
> got mad and quit. Just so you know, I'm *always* a bit much.
>
> > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
Loudon
> > race as well.
>
> I think that was Ed. On the other hand, it could have been anybody.
>
> > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> > privilage of speaking my mind.
>
> All you gotta do is have a humor gland surgically implanted. I'm sure
> if you had demonstrated any amount of ability to laugh at yourself and
> at others, it would have gone a different way.
>
> Eldred said you were just ejected (and not banned), so if you want to,
> come on back.
>
>
> --
> =========================================================
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
> http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast
>
> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================
In article <KF7I8.22395$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2
@nycap.rr.com says...
> You have been around me long enough John, you know I could care less and
> just race. (-:
Yeah, I know. Next week we start all over again. :)
--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast
If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
Exactly. I have a hell of a time trying to explain something I do/know
about, without thinking about it; end up confusing myself, lol.
-John
"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Bu7I8.22330$[email hidden]...
takes
no
before,
fault.
> > >> It's
> > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind thepace
pace
> > >car),
> > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but justmissed
> > >the
> > >> > message, etc.
> >
> > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. Ididn't
past
> both
> > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoinedthe
> > field.
> > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* wasthe
> > cause...
> >
> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for researchto
> cure
> > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea
> > donation. Thank you.
> >
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>
>
Quoted text (14 lines)
> I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little > attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everythingQuoted text (8 lines)
> > >place at the line/pit entrance. > > > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're > where > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try > passing > > >a car/pace car. > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. IfQuoted text (8 lines)
> > >message, keep going. > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:6nVH8.75045$[email hidden]... > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happenQuoted text (8 lines)
> and > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :) > > >> > > >> -Larry > > >> > > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> news:[email hidden]... > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim'sQuoted text (7 lines)
> > >car, > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who > needed > > >to > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G> > > >> > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass theQuoted text (10 lines)
> hear > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims > would > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so > whoever > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew > anything > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace > line. I > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I easedGuys....
I've read through this entire string.....have a couple comments (not
directed at any one person.....just some general comments about racing and
"responsibility"):
1. When you are a rookie, you have the responsibility to at least know and
understand the rules of the type of racing you are engaged in. That is a
"responsibility" you have to all the other drivers in the race......**who do
know and understand the rules.** What is not relevant to this is whether
the rules are easy or hard to understand. I don't believe that is an
unreasonable requirement to place on a sim driver who wants to race in these
RASCAR events.
2. When racing in N2K2.....if you are confused about your spotter
positioning messages, getting yelled at by others for not doing
something....AND you are a rookie.....then your default action should be to
report to your pit stall. You will at least be re-scored/re-positioned when
you come back out on the track and you will not be penalized. You will also
avoid others being penalized because you are out of position. The worst
you'll be is at the back of the pack.....still on the same lap.
3. Just like in real racing, "yellows" are not a time to relax. They are
the times you need to double your "situational awareness" and alertness to
what is happening around you and control of your car. Proper "in-laps,"
"out-laps" and traversing pit road....are MORE difficult than racing
laps....not less difficult and a time to relax.
4. "Chatting" during a race should not be allowed, period. Except for
emergencies......it confuses and distracts....and almost never "helps" a
problem situation. This should include those stupid "thank you" messages.
I have been sim racing online for more than five years. I can't count on
one finger....."chat messages" that were displayed while I was at race
speed....that were helpful. The rest were distracting, confusing,
un-readable and unnecessary.
I know some of you will say that I am too "A.J. Foyt-like" in this........so
be it. I think racing is a serious sport that requires "seriousness" to
participate in it. Pick up races and "fun" races do not relieve the
participants from knowing the rules. Would you enjoy a "fun" chess
match.....in which your opponent moved his pieces any way he wanted
to....while you followed the rules about moving them? Stupid question, huh?
Regards,
Tom Pabst
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]...
particularly
were
> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, orwhatever
> caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if IDID
> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.I
> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.
>
> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respondback
> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.
>
> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went insideof
> someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> think about it.
>
> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my buttat
> Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt itwas
> necessary to come after me verbally.
>
> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting tobe
> a bit much.
>
> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning theLoudon
and
> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
> Yet _I_ get ejected?
>
> Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in whatI
> saw today.
>
> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS eventfor
> me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.
>
> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn'tenough,
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > thought respected others. > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm notQuoted text (8 lines)
> fast at flat tracks. > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some > laps in. > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry, > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If weQuoted text (7 lines)
> race as well. > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > privilage of speaking my mind. > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language usedQuoted text (10 lines)
> then I sure don't know what is. > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > -Larry > >"Colin Harris" wrote...
> <snip>
> Jan, I'll keep out of the rest of this argument (!!), but
> you seemed to be warping to me in praccy..you ran behind
> me for a while and were coming in and out a lot....
Strange... just checked and you appear solid in my replay Colin (sorry 'bout
chopping down on you when we were both behind Larry, BTW. I had no idea it
was *that* close). Ok, it's evident you're not the local car and the turns
are slightly jerky when viewing from your cockpit, but not what I would
consider "warp". I mean, you move no more than a couple virtual inches.
That's as good as can be expected for a Belgian and British driver via
Michigan, USA, isn't it?
This is worrying...
Jan.
=---
In article <Mc8I8.111235$UV4.203648@rwcrnsc54>, [email hidden]
says...
Agreed.
The situation was a bit confusing - and not every situation is cut and
dried. Beyond that, this is a good strategy if for no other reason than
to iron out the grid, get your spotter to shut up, and to reduce the
nioise level. I imagine that dave was just as bewildered as those of us
being told two different (and contradicting) things by our spotter.
> 3. Just like in real racing, "yellows" are not a time to relax. They are
> the times you need to double your "situational awareness" and alertness to
> what is happening around you and control of your car. Proper "in-laps,"
> "out-laps" and traversing pit road....are MORE difficult than racing
> laps....not less difficult and a time to relax.
Agreed.
Agreed.
> I know some of you will say that I am too "A.J. Foyt-like" in this........so
> be it. I think racing is a serious sport that requires "seriousness" to
> participate in it. Pick up races and "fun" races do not relieve the
> participants from knowing the rules.
Agreed.
--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast
If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Guys.... > > I've read through this entire string.....have a couple comments (not > directed at any one person.....just some general comments about racing and > "responsibility"): > > 1. When you are a rookie, you have the responsibility to at least know and > understand the rules of the type of racing you are engaged in.Quoted text (7 lines)
> 2. When racing in N2K2.....if you are confused about your spotter > positioning messages, getting yelled at by others for not doing > something....AND you are a rookie.....then your default action should be to > report to your pit stall. You will at least be re-scored/re-positioned when > you come back out on the track and you will not be penalized. You will also > avoid others being penalized because you are out of position. The worst > you'll be is at the back of the pack.....still on the same lap.Quoted text (7 lines)
> 4. "Chatting" during a race should not be allowed, period. Except for > emergencies......it confuses and distracts....and almost never "helps" a > problem situation. This should include those stupid "thank you" messages. > I have been sim racing online for more than five years. I can't count on > one finger....."chat messages" that were displayed while I was at race > speed....that were helpful. The rest were distracting, confusing, > un-readable and unnecessary.
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Strange... just checked and you appear solid in my replay Colin (sorry'bout
Oh, agreed, it can't be perfect, and as 2 'experienced' simmers we knew what
to do, etc (NOT that I'm saying that someone else DIDN'T know what to do),
but for a second at a time you were disappearing off my screen..happened
maybe 6 or 7 times while you were behind me, so yeah, it's sort of worrying
that your screen had you in a false sense of security :-)
Quoted text (7 lines)
> chopping down on you when we were both behind Larry, BTW. I had no idea it > was *that* close). Ok, it's evident you're not the local car and the turns > are slightly jerky when viewing from your cockpit, but not what I would > consider "warp". I mean, you move no more than a couple virtual inches. > That's as good as can be expected for a Belgian and British driver via > Michigan, USA, isn't it? >[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in
Eldred, is there a server replay available for the Indy race? Not related
to the current conversation :-)
cheers
John
Quoted text (12 lines)
> There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of it > directed at you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS > during yellow. You said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll > forgive me it I listen to my spotter instead of YOU... > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have that > continue throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the > problem. Chalk it up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I > didn't. I'll have to check the replay. If I was mistaken, I > apologize. You weren't banned from the server, just kicked out of > THAT race. > > EldredSorry to change topic, but I thought I should keep this in the RASCAR
thread.
I passed Eldred late in the IMS race along the front straight. As I moved
back up to line up T1 the car gave me a big wobble. I immediately decided to
switch back to going low, which meant I had to brake harder allowing Eldred
back alongside where he seemed to freeze at the controls and slide wide.
At least, this was how it appeared to me at the time. However John Middleton
said it appeared as though Eldred was hit after the race, so I checked.
Turns out that:
- I was still much higher up the track than I thought.
- Eventhough my replay doesn't show actual contact it was way too close for
comfort. Any warp at all would have led to contact at Eldred's end (and
reports on my connection are not good to say the least) and even if it
didn't I slewed and slowed into his path, giving him a right old "brake
test".
Really sorry about that one Eldred... my fault entirely. You do a great job
hosting these races and you really try hard as a driver. This is not the
sort of "thanks" you should get.
Jan.
=---
Agreed :)
-Larry
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <KF7I8.22395$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2
> Yeah, I know. Next week we start all over again. :)
Agreed :)
-Larry
> Yeah, I know. Next week we start all over again. :)
If that was poking fun, I sure didn't sense it that way. Try some smilies
next time :)
-Larry
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden] says...
> > There were a lot of arguments flying around, and about 95% of itdirected at
> > you. You also gave me grief for not passing you at NHIS during yellow.You
> > said pass, my spotter said stay back. You'll forgive me it I listen tomy
> > spotter instead of YOU...
> > Then at Indy, the arguments started again. Rather then have thatcontinue
> > throughout the 2nd race, I chose to remove what I saw as the problem.Chalk it
> > up to you're being a 'rookie'. Them I knew - you I didn't. I'll haveto check
> > the replay. If I was mistaken, I apologize. You weren't banned fromthe
Quoted text (21 lines)
> > server, just kicked out of THAT race. > > I was just pokin' him in the ribs, and he got pissy. I wouldn't exactly > call it an argument. > > -- > ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================In article <DuXH8.76898$[email hidden]>, "Larry"
<[email hidden]> writes:
My duty(for lack of a better term) is to minimize disruption in races on my
server. Whether it's bad driving, intentional wrecking, abusive behavior, etc.
Anything that disrupts the race lowers the enjoyment for everyone...
As I've said, I know the other drivers more than I know you. Had I raced with
you as much as I had with the other guys, you would probably have gotten the
benefit of the doubt. Now that I know who you are, you'll get that benefit.
Just don't abuse it...<g>
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (16 lines)
>Eldred, > >I say this in a nice manner :) > >You _were_ wrong :) > >Ejections should be a last resort. Wreckers. People driving backwards. >Sustained use of bad lanquage. > >No one even came close to qualifying for ejection status during those races. >No one. > >I was assumed guilty of something booted. > >Please think about that :) >Good grief...
Ok, All I can do is offer to send MY replay of the incident to anyone who
cares to view it.
I stand by my statement that I never felt a thing, saw a thing nor did
anything wrong. I will not waver from that point because I know in my heart
that I'm right.
Anyone who wants it is welcome to it.
Someone else summed it up nicely. There are multiple views of reality in
this game, depending on what warp does to each individual driver. That is
reflected in the apparant differences in the replays.
My replay reflects MY slice of reality at the time.
I truly don't understand your bitterness about all this, but there's nothing
I can do about that.
-Larry
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
overtaking.
let
> you go bye without going totally out of my way and risk unwanted attention
> from people further behind. I.e. let you have the inside line but stayclose
> enough to slot in directly behind. Whatever you thought to gain by running
> ahead of me at this point in the race escapes me at this moment, but I
> considered you too much of a distraction to try and defend.
>
> For reference... I didn't fall out of a tree in the online arenayesterday.
> I've raced online for the past 3.5 years and I am acutely aware of all
> things warp related. I check all competitors during practise, both interms
> of absolute latency (only possible in N2k2) and by watching them as they
> drive (GPL habit). I also monitor my own connection. My ping was solid, so
> was yours. You appeared solid to me, so did everyone else except #327, whoI
> had fairly little dealing with in the race.
>
> You showed no signs of serious warping prior and after the accident. Onlyas
> contact is made is your car showing "suspect" behaviour... partly
> superimposing on me and clipping into the track in my replay. If, as you
> say, you watched the entire replay you'll have noticed I got close to youon
> further occasions without anything untowards happening.
>
> > It was due to warp.
>
> If this is true N2002, is a dangerous game. GPL habit leads me to believe
> that if I'm warping, all other drivers should appear to warp to me. Thiswas
> not the case in this race. If I'm shown to be warping in the serverreplay,
actually
not
> much progression was possible. Similar to John, I already had a suspicionof
> you being a little too eager but anyway, I got fed up with having to keep
> and eye on you so decided I'd open the door for you so I could have some
> piece and quiet until crunch time. You predictably went for the inside, soI
> turn in on the high line. Suddenly there's tyre squeal, a thump and I'm in
> the wall. On the replay you're a full car's width away from the racingline
the
> incident. "Oh dear, did we touch? -Didn't feel a thing. _Sorry aboutthat_"
you.
>
> > The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this
> > stuff before they paint a bullseye on someone.
>
> I didn't paint a bullseye on you. I aired my displeasure at what appearedto
> me as your driving style. If you have actually watched the entire replayyou
Quoted text (32 lines)
> "Larry" wrote... > > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this > > phantom incident during the Loudon race. > > Ain't nothing phantom about getting the hood shoved in one's face, my > friend. > > > And I found it. > > The fact you didn't notice me going into the wall is pretty scary. > > > In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you > > will see why. > > Disagree. If, as you claim below, it was warp on my behalf, it's my fault > for not taking it into account enough. > > > And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain > > that I did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never > > felt it. <snip> > > > > It is very clear what happened. > > > > You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent > > line all around the corner and really didn't waver as much > > as a few inches. > > One's always smooth in one's own replay, but that's beside the point. > > > A little high off the line, but reasonable. > > Hmmm... one would think one should stick close to the apron whenQuoted text (9 lines)
> One would at least expect the overtaking driver to apex T1. I made a > definate assumption as to the line you would take. > > > However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right. > > Quite a bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's > > driving. > > The name's Jan, BTW. Anyhow, this bit surprises me. You weren't position > warping much from my point of view. Otherwise I wouldn't have trusted toQuoted text (10 lines)
> the N2002 prediction code is capable of luring one into a false sense of > security. Something I will duly keep in mind for future events. > > > This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing. > > My car made a smooth turn through the corners, but the > > 17 car was jerking back and forth. Again, this was not > > caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused > > by warp. > > I'll check the server replay to verify whether I my connection wasQuoted text (12 lines)
> poor or warping occurred on your machine only. > > > I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched. > > I would have to believe I would have felt something, and > > my car would have at least bobbled if we did, but as you > > can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the slightest. > > Believe it... we touched in my game. I don't just spear off into the wall > for fun. Come out from behind the nonsense E-mail address we'll exchange > clips. > > I saw it like this... you were hassling me at a point in the race whereQuoted text (16 lines)
> and drifting up as we touch. > > If I'm shown to warp severely in the server replay I will take back all I > said and apologise. If I'm steady.... well, I'm sorry, but it takes two to > tango. We had a misunderstanding in that turn about what consists the > "inside line" and, as the overtaking driver, that's half your fault. > > > It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the > > spin, due to the warp that the 17 car was experiencing at > > the time. > > > > I normally don't go through this much effort for something > > like this, but in this case, given what transpired afterwards, > > I felt I really had no choice. > > You wouldn't have had to go the trouble had you recognised your part inQuoted text (10 lines)
> was all that was required. I also think Eldred was a bit harsh on you (on > the other hand I also think it's his perogative to be harsh on people) and > I'm sorry you got ejected over the aftermath of this incident, but, as was > said at the time, you were "being an ass about it". > > > No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things > > we have to live with in online racing. > > Again, disagree. If it was warp on my behalf it's me who should apologise, > otherwise warp only served to hide the consequences of your actions toQuoted text (16 lines)
> will notice I was in a position to repay the compliment a couple of times > later in the race, but I didn't. Might be my imagination, but you seemed a > lot more carefull around me in those situations. > > > We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way. > > It's racing... it's not meant to be fun.<g> > > > JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :) > > Let's agree to disagree on that one. ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > >Thanks, Mike :)
-Larry
"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1r7I8.22308$[email hidden]...
some
> > laps in.
> >
> > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't havea
> > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'msorry,
butt
> at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.
> >
> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was gettingto
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think ofdoing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?
> >
> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed inwhat
to
Quoted text (24 lines)
> Larry, don't take their ranting and raving personal. Some people race, > others talk about it. I thought you ran a good race and didn't see any > problem with your driving. They should have been busting my balls, I stunk > up the first race and then caused a big wreck while leading with one to go > at Indy. Just one of those days. You can turn chat off then you don't have > to listen to it. (-: > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0zUH8.74758$[email hidden]... > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this... > > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I > > thought respected others. > > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not > particularly > > fast at flat tracks. > > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just getQuoted text (20 lines)
> > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we > were > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or > whatever > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I > DID > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. > I > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something. > > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond > back > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to. > > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside > of > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to > > think about it. > > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding myQuoted text (11 lines)
> be > > a bit much. > > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the > Loudon > > race as well. > > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the > > privilage of speaking my mind. > > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that wereQuoted text (14 lines)
> I > > saw today. > > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event > for > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it. > > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't > enough, > > then I sure don't know what is. > > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races. > > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have likedQuoted text (7 lines)
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. > > > > -Larry > > > > > >> Someone else summed it up nicely. There are multiple views of reality in
> this game, depending on what warp does to each individual driver. That is
> reflected in the apparant differences in the replays.
Reality seldom provides for single views either! Check out the postings on the
Montoya Schumacher tangles earlier this year.
I watched the Hockenheim top ten on Motors TV yesterday. The single make races
led to some bizarre incidents including full on revenge attacks. I hope these
guys don't have a newsgroup.
I do get amazed at the chatters in online racing. I respect their ability to
have a full scale argument via their keyboard whilst driving, but generally not
the attitude. Imagine if Bernoldi & Massa had keyboards fitted to their
respective vehicles so they could "chat" to their competitors?
Online racing is a bit like 5 a side football without a ref. It needs all to be
a bit sensible and show a bit of give or take, whilst still being competitive
and fun.
Tony
I hope I didn't say anything negative about John's posts. It definitely
wasn't intentional if it appears I did.
David G Fisher
"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:acqhjn$r5bd7$[email hidden]...
if
was
you
race,
Quoted text (10 lines)
> Hi John, > > please keep sharing your knowledge about these rule related matters. > > For me, everything you've said so far in that respect was utterly > informative and helpful. I couldn't find information similarly up-to-date > and pertaining to actual, current events (and hence similarly intelligible > and digestible to a Nascar Newbie) anywhere else. > > I've read all your comments with interest and profound gratefulness, andQuoted text (12 lines)
> you'd give me advice in a race, I'd be even more grateful! > > I don't think Dave was referring to your posts. Please keep posting! > > Achim > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > P.p.s <G> Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point. JustQuoted text (10 lines)
> > trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/people > did > > things a certain way, during the race. > > > > -John > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not ifQuoted text (7 lines)
> > > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't > > supposed > > > to pass. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during theQuoted text (7 lines)
> > > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was > > just > > > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the > > future > > > :) > > Not at all Dave; that's not how I took it. I was just afraid, after
re-reading my posts, that _I_ had pissed you and/or Eldred off(....."some
don't know the rules, etc.........")
Just another case of the limitations of keyboard communication<G>
Thanks !
-John
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VVaI8.27692$%[email hidden]...
up-to-date
> > and pertaining to actual, current events (and hence similarlyintelligible
occurred/people
was
Quoted text (13 lines)
> I hope I didn't say anything negative about John's posts. It definitely > wasn't intentional if it appears I did. > > David G Fisher > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:acqhjn$r5bd7$[email hidden]... > > Hi John, > > > > please keep sharing your knowledge about these rule related matters. > > > > For me, everything you've said so far in that respect was utterly > > informative and helpful. I couldn't find information similarlyQuoted text (18 lines)
> > and digestible to a Nascar Newbie) anywhere else. > > > > I've read all your comments with interest and profound gratefulness, and > if > > you'd give me advice in a race, I'd be even more grateful! > > > > I don't think Dave was referring to your posts. Please keep posting! > > > > Achim > > > > > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > P.p.s <G> Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point. Just > was > > > trying to explain to Larry why some things may not haveQuoted text (19 lines)
> > did > > > things a certain way, during the race. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if > you > > > > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't > > > supposed > > > > to pass. > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the > race, > > > > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this postQuoted text (8 lines)
> > > just > > > > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the > > > future > > > > :) > > > > > >In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> writes:
I wondered about that. I didn't *hear/feel* any contact, but my car behaved as
if we HAD touched. I'm surprised I spun through the following cars without
hitting anyone else...<g>
>Really sorry about that one Eldred... my fault entirely. You do a great job
>hosting these races and you really try hard as a driver. This is not the
>sort of "thanks" you should get.
Don't worry about it - I'm getting USED to my last place finishes...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (12 lines)
>At least, this was how it appeared to me at the time. However John Middleton >said it appeared as though Eldred was hit after the race, so I checked. >Turns out that: > >- I was still much higher up the track than I thought. > >- Eventhough my replay doesn't show actual contact it was way too close for >comfort. Any warp at all would have led to contact at Eldred's end (and >reports on my connection are not good to say the least) and even if it >didn't I slewed and slowed into his path, giving him a right old "brake >test". >In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons
<[email hidden]> writes:
>The problem was that Ed was behind you, and I was behind Ed. I was
>being told to stay behind Ed, but to also pass the pace car. Ed was
>being told to stay behind you, but to pass the pace car.
Oh, you guys DID get a message saying to pass the pace car? Wow, I wonder why
*I* didn't...?
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <Bu7I8.22330$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy"
<[email hidden]> writes:
>I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little
>attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness.
Like I said, I was dead last when the caution flew. I crossed the s/f line,
and heard "we're under caution". When I went past the pace car, I got told,
"whoa, whoa!" I assumed it was because I flew by the pace car, but in
retrospect, there may have been another car nearby...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <[email hidden]>, JM
<[email hidden]> writes:
>Eldred, is there a server replay available for the Indy race? Not related
>to the current conversation :-)
Yes. :-)
Sorry<g> - it was saved, but it's not available for download yet. I'll do that
when I get back to work Tuesday...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <Mc8I8.111235$UV4.203648@rwcrnsc54>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]>
writes:
I ended up doing that during the first race, because I got conflicting messages
from the spotter - and I don't consider myself a rookie...<g>
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (7 lines)
>2. When racing in N2K2.....if you are confused about your spotter >positioning messages, getting yelled at by others for not doing >something....AND you are a rookie.....then your default action should be to >report to your pit stall. You will at least be re-scored/re-positioned when >you come back out on the track and you will not be penalized. You will also >avoid others being penalized because you are out of position. The worst >you'll be is at the back of the pack.....still on the same lap.writes:
I ended up doing that during the first race, because I got conflicting messages
from the spotter - and I don't consider myself a rookie...<g>
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Thats understandable.
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <Bu7I8.22330$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy"
> <[email hidden]> writes:
>
> >I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little
> >attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness.
>
> Like I said, I was dead last when the caution flew. I crossed the s/f
line,
> and heard "we're under caution". When I went past the pace car, I got
told,
> "whoa, whoa!" I assumed it was because I flew by the pace car, but in
> retrospect, there may have been another car nearby...
>
> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to
cure
> breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.
>
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
On Sun, 26 May 2002 18:36:04 GMT, Larry <[email hidden]> wrote:
What tracks will be racing at?
Cheers,
Uwe
PS: I enjoyed my first RASCAR event, even if it started with a
black flag in lap #1 for overtaking *after* going green, but
*before* the line 8-P
--
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
Quoted text (11 lines)
> Agreed :) > > -Larry > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> In article <KF7I8.22395$[email hidden]>, mgrandy2 > >> Yeah, I know. Next week we start all over again. :) > >From what I recall and watching the replay on my PC,
Eldred was the first inline that backed off and stayed behind the pacecar...
Once Ian & co came up and lapped us... Eldred passed the pacecar, but Uwe
(who I think was a lap down) stayed behind the pacecar - meaning that the
rest of us couldnt pass him without being told to "stay behind XX"... and
thus we lost a[nother] lap :-(
--
ed_
Yeah...its a pain in the butt to have to do it......but I've done it many
times. Its the best all around........since you are probably going to get
penalized anyway....and at least the other drivers don't. But...its still
hard to give up your hard earned track position and head into the pits.
TP
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <Mc8I8.111235$UV4.203648@rwcrnsc54>, "Tom Pabst"<[email hidden]>
> writes:
>
> >2. When racing in N2K2.....if you are confused about your spotter
> >positioning messages, getting yelled at by others for not doing
> >something....AND you are a rookie.....then your default action should beto
> >report to your pit stall. You will at least be re-scored/re-positionedwhen
> >you come back out on the track and you will not be penalized. You willalso
> >avoid others being penalized because you are out of position. The worst
> >you'll be is at the back of the pack.....still on the same lap.
>
> I ended up doing that during the first race, because I got conflictingmessages
> from the spotter - and I don't consider myself a rookie...<g>
>
> Eldred
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> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research tocure
> breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.
>
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On 26 May 2002 01:41:05 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:
Are you going to post the server replay on the Web site? I will be
interested to see what actually happened. Usually if I am not the
leader and I find myself behind the pace car I will try to go ahead
and pass it to see if the spotter starts having a fit.
One thing is for certain myself and the 68 car defenitely benefited
from it. Not only did it only leave 4 cars on the lead lap, but we
were able to pit for 4 fresh tires which left the 14 and the other car
as sitting ducks. They probably didn't realize what happened in time
or they would have pitted too.
The spotter can be ambiguous at best in situations were you take the
yellow and the leader has not taken it yet and I have seen the spotter
screw up before. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of those
situations. There are definetly bugs in the scoring code and I
wouldn't be surprised if you all were a victim of one.
Brian Oster (# 27)
Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.
Quoted text (13 lines)
> >For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I didn't hear >ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims would >tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so whoever >was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew anything >was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace line. I >expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased past both >him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the >field. >One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the >cause... > >Eldred[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in
> Yes. :-)
>
> Sorry<g> - it was saved, but it's not available for download yet.
> I'll do that when I get back to work Tuesday...
>
> Eldred
no rush :o)
cheers
John
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
(Brian Oster) writes:
I forgot all ABOUT it... I actually went in to the office Monday for something
else, and copied the files to my FTP server, intending to update my webpage. I
hadn't checked r.a.s. since then to remind myself. I'll try to remember it
tomorrow.
Eldred
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Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
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Quoted text (9 lines)
>>One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the >>cause... >> >>Eldred > >Are you going to post the server replay on the Web site? I will be >interested to see what actually happened. Usually if I am not the >leader and I find myself behind the pace car I will try to go ahead >and pass it to see if the spotter starts having a fit.In article <7JuI8.93903$L76.152300@rwcrnsc53>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]>
writes:
>Yeah...its a pain in the butt to have to do it......but I've done it many
>times. Its the best all around........since you are probably going to get
>penalized anyway....and at least the other drivers don't. But...its still
>hard to give up your hard earned track position and head into the pits.
In that case, no it wasn't. I was only ahead of the cars that had crashed. I
was the slowest thing on the track, so it really didn't MATTER that I went back
to last...
I've done the same thing from a tactical standpoint. Pit off sequence during a
yellow flag to maybe catch a break on fuel mileage. I'm last ANYWAY - mayne I
can get a good finishing position simply by not having to make a green flag
stop. Hasn't worked yet, though... :(
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.
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