NR2003 & Lucky Dog question

Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out and he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts?

"Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1144281148.698221.171230 @i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts? Isn't that the way the Lucky Dog works? You get ONE lap back, not a free pass to front. The fact he was two laps down should mean he would need two lucky dog situations to regain his lead lap status...provided he isn't lapped again before the 2nd LD. dave henrie

I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where do we put him?

"Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1144287756.116621.212090 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: > I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real > racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic > lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps > down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where > do we put him? > He's still one lap down. So he should line up inside of the front row. He then has the opportunity to try and race himself back onto the lead lap by passing the leader and staying in front til another yellow. But he can also sit back and wait cuz he knows if there IS one more yellow, he also gets his 2nd lap back. dh

"Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter : pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for : repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers : an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give : the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. : : Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 : laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out and : he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the : restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the : leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. : : Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts? I was under the impression that the lucky dog rule only applies to a car one lap down.

Bob V wrote:

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> "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > : Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter > : pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for > : repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers > : an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give > : the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. > : > : Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 > : laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out and > : he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the > : restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the > : leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. > : > : Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts? > > I was under the impression that the lucky dog rule only applies to a car one > lap down. > >

Uh...would this make sense? If he just got one lap back (out of two)...he should go to the EOLL.When you get the lucky dog as a 2 lap down or more car (yes,they go to the first car a lap or more down....so a 2 lap down car can get a lucky dog)....you don't automatically get to pull up to the inside on the ensuing restart.You would however get to do that on the next caution flag....but by then,if no one is put a lap down,he'd get another lucky dog and be back on the lead lap anyways,right?

The LD guy always lines up at the end of the longest line. He DOES NOT line up in the lapped lines, low. Phil On 5 Apr 2006 18:42:36 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real >racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic >lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps >down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where >do we put him?

Philthy <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> The LD guy always lines up at the end of the longest line. He DOES NOT > line up in the lapped lines, low. > > Phil > > On 5 Apr 2006 18:42:36 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real >>racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic >>lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps >>down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where >>do we put him? >

But if the Lucky Dog is still one lap down, why would he go to the end of the longest line? That would give him either only half a lap...or a lap and a half. Boy, I guess I'd better pay more attention when Nascar makes new rules. Biffle got at least 3 lucky dogs at Atlanta(I think it was there) did he always go to the Back of the Longest Line or did he line up as a lapped car on the inside lane? dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : Philthy <[email hidden]> wrote in : news:[email hidden]: : : > The LD guy always lines up at the end of the longest line. He DOES NOT : > line up in the lapped lines, low. : > : > Phil : > : > On 5 Apr 2006 18:42:36 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: : > : >>I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real : >>racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic : >>lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps : >>down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where : >>do we put him? : > : : But if the Lucky Dog is still one lap down, why would he go to the end : of the longest line? That would give him either only half a lap...or a lap : and a half. Boy, I guess I'd better pay more attention when Nascar makes : new rules. : Biffle got at least 3 lucky dogs at Atlanta(I think it was there) did he : always go to the Back of the Longest Line or did he line up as a lapped car : on the inside lane? Found this over on JaySki. It was a Q&A interview with John Darby, Cup Series Director Re: How will a car be repositioned in the lineup when it gets a lap back? Darby: The way that procedure'll work is number one, everybody needs to understand that it's the highest scored position not on the lead lap. It won't be the car closest to the leader. In other words, if there's 21 cars on the lead lap, the competitor that'll be affected by receiving that lap back will be the 22nd on the scoreboard, okay? Now the way that will be done, is that lineup will be compiled and that position will be decided before pit road opens, so that if that competitor is a lap down, he still pits with the lap-down cars and exits with the lap-down cars. Before we resume the race, we will move that competitor around the pace car and to the tail end of the lead lap. He will not be able to advance any scored positions. What'll happen is he will receive one lap back. And that competitor may two laps down, may be four laps down. It'll be the first car not on the lead lap.

"Bob V" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : : "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message : news:[email hidden]... :: Philthy <[email hidden]> wrote in :: news:[email hidden]: :: :: > The LD guy always lines up at the end of the longest line. He DOES NOT :: > line up in the lapped lines, low. :: > :: > Phil :: > :: > On 5 Apr 2006 18:42:36 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: :: > :: >>I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real :: >>racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic :: >>lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps :: >>down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, where :: >>do we put him? :: > :: :: But if the Lucky Dog is still one lap down, why would he go to the end :: of the longest line? That would give him either only half a lap...or a lap :: and a half. Boy, I guess I'd better pay more attention when Nascar : makes :: new rules. :: Biffle got at least 3 lucky dogs at Atlanta(I think it was there) did he :: always go to the Back of the Longest Line or did he line up as a lapped : car :: on the inside lane? : : Found this over on JaySki. It was a Q&A interview with John Darby, Cup : Series Director : : Re: How will a car be repositioned in the lineup when it gets a lap back? : : Darby: The way that procedure'll work is number one, everybody needs to : understand that it's the highest scored position not on the lead lap. It : won't be the car closest to the leader. In other words, if there's 21 cars : on the lead lap, the competitor that'll be affected by receiving that lap : back will be the 22nd on the scoreboard, okay? Now the way that will be : done, is that lineup will be compiled and that position will be decided : before pit road opens, so that if that competitor is a lap down, he still : pits with the lap-down cars and exits with the lap-down cars. Before we : resume the race, we will move that competitor around the pace car and to the : tail end of the lead lap. He will not be able to advance any scored : positions. What'll happen is he will receive one lap back. And that : competitor may two laps down, may be four laps down. It'll be the first car : not on the lead lap. Clarification: Interview took place in 2003. I don't know if Darby still has that position.

On 5 Apr 2006 16:52:28 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter >pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for >repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers >an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give >the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. > >Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 >laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out and >he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the >restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the >leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. > >Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts?

Did anyone not watch the Bristol race? If you would've watched the beginning....this thread would never have started. He starts at the inside of the leader...it played out the same scenario at the beginning of the Bristol race....did it not?

Yeah, me! (Did anyone not watch the Bristol race?). I hate Bristol racing. I am guessing that you mean JJ cutting a tire and losing laps right from the start. I knew it happened, but not how the LD played out as it wasn't a concern of mine at the time. And I still suspect that this is unresolved as there have been posts purporting BOTH scenarios to be correct.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:21:11 -0700, "Bob V" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Clarification: Interview took place in 2003. I don't know if Darby still >has that position. > This is still correct. The LD *always* goes to the end of the longest line, regardless of how many laps down he was when he got it. The only way he would line up on the inside is if the inside happened to be the longest line (there are more cars 1+ laps down then on the lead lap). As to another question posted here, if there are no cars one lap down, then the car closest to the leader two laps down gets it, etc on back until someone eligible gets it.

Russell you're actually wrong. The mentioned it during the same race that the LD started at the end of the longest line. As far as I remember Johnson never received a LD that day. Bob V's post earlier with the interview with John Darby is correct. "Russell Unger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 5 Apr 2006 16:52:28 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter >>pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for >>repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers >>an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give >>the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. >> >>Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 >>laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out and >>he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the >>restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the >>leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. >> >>Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts? > > Did anyone not watch the Bristol race? If you would've watched the > beginning....this thread would never have started. He starts at the > inside of the leader...it played out the same scenario at the > beginning of the Bristol race....did it not?

Johnson got the LD on the first caution of the Bristol race, according to Jayski. He was, of course, multiple laps down at the down.

any lucky dawg pretty much has to get EOLL penalty, and be end of longest line, PERIOD. if he is the only car a lap down or more this really is NOT a problem because he is NOT forced to linup on the inside, the game doesnt care, even though it urges you to do so... Darus enlightened us with: > I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real > racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped traffic > lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was multiple laps > down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go to restart, > where do we put him?

Yes dave, end of longest line usually unlapped cars. that is the reward/penalty for getting the lucky dawg Dave Henrie enlightened us with:

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> Philthy <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > >> The LD guy always lines up at the end of the longest line. He DOES >> NOT line up in the lapped lines, low. >> >> Phil >> >> On 5 Apr 2006 18:42:36 -0700, "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>> I get that part. But the issue is a bit unique. Typically, in real >>> racing, the LD is only 1 lap down and goes to the EOLL. Lapped >>> traffic lines up inside the leaders. But in our case, the LD was >>> multiple laps down AND the only car off the lead lap. So when we go >>> to restart, where do we put him? >> > > But if the Lucky Dog is still one lap down, why would he go to the > end of the longest line? That would give him either only half a > lap...or a lap and a half. Boy, I guess I'd better pay more > attention when Nascar makes new rules. > Biffle got at least 3 lucky dogs at Atlanta(I think it was there) > did he always go to the Back of the Longest Line or did he line up as > a lapped car on the inside lane? > > > dave henrie

you are correct Raybee1970 enlightened us with:

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> Bob V wrote: >> "Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter >>> pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for >>> repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the >>> drivers an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an >>> admin will give the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. >>> >>> Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 >>> laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out >>> and he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for >>> the restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up >>> inside the leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. >>> >>> Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts? >> >> I was under the impression that the lucky dog rule only applies to a >> car one lap down. >> >> > Uh...would this make sense? > > If he just got one lap back (out of two)...he should go to the > EOLL.When you get the lucky dog as a 2 lap down or more car (yes,they > go to the first car a lap or more down....so a 2 lap down car can get > a lucky dog)....you don't automatically get to pull up to the inside > on the ensuing restart.You would however get to do that on the next > caution flag....but by then,if no one is put a lap down,he'd get > another lucky dog and be back on the lead lap anyways,right?

Last thought on the LD. Now I cannot prove that this is a problem because our league uses the rule you have to start at the end of the longest line, but why we do this mainly is because in the earlier versions of NR, when you gave a person his lap back, if someone was right behind them, sometimes this would cause PROBLEMS with scoring for any cars behind that LD car. One time it caused a car in last place to be technically about to lap the field which, screws up pits and everything else... Meanwhile, the Admins had to throw caution to clean up the mess, it just aint worth the risk.. It also saves confusion because we dont have spotters (real ones anyway) and we use F2 screens and the like, we accept that the 'slight penalty' for getting the LD (a lap back) is having to be behind EVERYONE else at the time the green flag drops. If you arent in place when the flag goes green you dont get the LD. it is kinda like the pit road cone/commitment line, when your leagues says you pit in commit before turn 3, even though you can actually come out of 4 and get it pitted, you get a BF, or lose points upon review. Darus enlightened us with:

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> Our league uses the LD rule. We implement it by having the LD enter > pitroad at a speed above the pit road limit and then either stop for > repairs, or wait for the "GO" sign at pit exit. this gives the drivers > an "End of Longest line" penalty. Upon going green, an admin will give > the LD a lap back. Works pretty well. > > Last night we had a sitaution we haven't seen before. One car was 2 > laps down. He was the only car off the lead lap. A caution came out > and he proceeded as outlined above. However, when we lined up for the > restart, he said that he was a lap down and should line up inside the > leader. We told him to go to the back and EOLL. > > Anyone in a league care to offer their thoughts?