RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in how the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that got damaged on that first incident... Grandy asked why we should restart..... cannot understand why you didnt get that Mike... Just like you wanted to protect your lead - I wanted to have a shot at actually finishing this race.... I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? Hope Homestead went better though. -- ed_ (/Disappointed)

Well Ed, we also had a crash at the restart before anybody even got to the line. I quit then. Besides, my wheel was acting up and needed to be recalibrated in windows and then the game. I was only getting about 95% throttle. I couldn't even keep up in a draft. ZZ

Well Ed, we also had a crash at the restart before anybody even got to the line. I quit then. Besides, my wheel was acting up and needed to be recalibrated in windows and then the game. I was only getting about 95% throttle. I couldn't even keep up in a draft. ZZ

Not sure how the rest felt about it but you were the only one that felt we should restart. It really didn't matter to me but I didn't know we restart if someone wrecks. Were you not able to continue? Hell, I didn't want to lead but if you're there you might as well. Turned out to be a pretty good race for about 30 laps. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in how > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > > I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very > disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that > got damaged on that first incident... > > Grandy asked why we should restart..... cannot understand why you didnt get > that Mike... > Just like you wanted to protect your lead - I wanted to have a shot at > actually finishing this race.... > > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? > > Hope Homestead went better though. > > -- > ed_ > (/Disappointed) > >

Although I do sympathize with your situation Ed, I'm one of those guys that feels restarts are totally unfair in any race series. Their are exeptions for mass boots and the such. Typically what will happen in a restart is similar to what happened the first time only different cars involved. Is that fair? It could end up in an endless loop. I had a good time in the race even though it was darn ugly :) Unfortunately I discoed with 15 to go. I'm finally starting to get some feeling back in my butt cheeks <g>. Mitch "Richard "ZZ" Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UNEy8.29556$[email hidden]... > Well Ed, we also had a crash at the restart before anybody even got to the > line. > I quit then. > Besides, my wheel was acting up and needed to be recalibrated in windowsand

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> then the game. I was only getting about 95% throttle. I couldn't even keep > up in a draft. > > ZZ > > >

You really can't start a policy of restarting like that, someone always ends up losing out in the end, it is best just to take things as they come, some days are good, and others will be bad. Just like real racing. I hate to see anyone get involved in a wreck, especially on the first lap, but you gotta just take whatever happens with a grain of salt and move on. In N2002, just like N4, when you get fields of the size we had today, things will happen, it's inevitable, especially when you have so many drivers that aren't used to racing with each other yet. Heck, I am in a very good league and we have been racing together for some time, but when the fields are large things are going to happen, that's the trade-off for the great physics model we have. I had fun while I was there, don't know how it went after I left but we did at least get some good green flag racing in. Thanks for having me guys, and hopefully will be able to race more with ya in the future.. Don Burnette "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k%Fy8.2453$[email hidden]... > Although I do sympathize with your situation Ed, I'm one of those guysthat > feels restarts are totally unfair in any race series. Their are exeptions > for mass boots and the such. Typically what will happen in a restart is > similar to what happened the first time only different cars involved. Is > that fair? It could end up in an endless loop. > > I had a good time in the race even though it was darn ugly :)Unfortunately

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> I discoed with 15 to go. > > I'm finally starting to get some feeling back in my butt cheeks <g>. > > Mitch > > > "Richard "ZZ" Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UNEy8.29556$[email hidden]... > > Well Ed, we also had a crash at the restart before anybody even got to

the > > line. > > I quit then. > > Besides, my wheel was acting up and needed to be recalibrated in windows > and > > then the game. I was only getting about 95% throttle. I couldn't evenkeep

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> > up in a draft. > > > > ZZ > > > > > > > > >

I had a good race, made some nice moves until the last lap when I totally blew it and that wasn't the worst I took #328 along. What a disastrous finish. The thing was that about 8 laps before the end I was right behind Zugzug and he forced me to go round the outside, I lost two spots hanging to dry. Another long yellow period came and so there was a one lap shootout. After leading most laps and making some nice moves I kinda felt I deserved the win. And that's never the state of mind to be in in such a situation. I knew they were all going to stay on the left and instead of going around the outside like earlier, I made a promise that I would follow every move to the left with an even bigger move to the ledt. So I ended up down the apron in t3 crashing into the side of #328 and loosing another 2 places. My apologies #328. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:h_Fy8.10351$[email hidden]...

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> Not sure how the rest felt about it but you were the only one that felt we > should restart. It really didn't matter to me but I didn't know we restart > if someone wrecks. Were you not able to continue? Hell, I didn't want to > lead but if you're there you might as well. Turned out to be a pretty good > race for about 30 laps. (-: > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in > how > > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > > > > I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very > > disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars

that

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> > got damaged on that first incident... > > > > Grandy asked why we should restart..... cannot understand why you didnt > get > > that Mike... > > Just like you wanted to protect your lead - I wanted to have a shot at > > actually finishing this race.... > > > > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and

would

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> > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? > > > > Hope Homestead went better though. > > > > -- > > ed_ > > (/Disappointed) > > > > > >

>"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote > I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very > disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that > got damaged on that first incident... Actually, it's a non-written law in online stockcar races. It's sucks that many cars were involved, but when a race has started, it has started. If we restart, then who said the same thing won't happen? ;( > Hope Homestead went better though. You can still catch it, practice is still up at 19:12pm EST :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Forgive me for assuming this, but I thought these RASCAR races were about having fun - not nessecarily (sp?) win at all cost... ???? -- ed_ "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:k%Fy8.2453$[email hidden]... > Although I do sympathize with your situation Ed, I'm one of those guys that > feels restarts are totally unfair in any race series. Their are exeptions > for mass boots and the such. Typically what will happen in a restart is > similar to what happened the first time only different cars involved. Is > that fair? It could end up in an endless loop. > > I had a good time in the race even though it was darn ugly :) Unfortunately > I discoed with 15 to go. > > I'm finally starting to get some feeling back in my butt cheeks <g>. > > Mitch > >

Ed Solheim wrote: > Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, no discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the Tri Oval as went green once ? Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus BF and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I got that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least *one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules "You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha "You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

As you may know Mik, there's very little point in completeing a 70 lap race at a Superspeedway - when your cars wrecked. The extra drag will make it so slow so theres absolutly no point (unless points are to be won) to continue. I see very little in lurking around the track for over an hour - doing nothing! As I've said before, Superspeedways is completely different ball-game... at most track you can get away with a pretty shabby car, but on a 'SS' it's virtually impossible - unless the damage is very minor. -- ed_ "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:h_Fy8.10351$[email hidden]... > Not sure how the rest felt about it but you were the only one that felt we > should restart. It really didn't matter to me but I didn't know we restart > if someone wrecks. Were you not able to continue? Hell, I didn't want to > lead but if you're there you might as well. Turned out to be a pretty good > race for about 30 laps. (-:

Goy Larsen wrote: > I totally forgot.... It was really great getting the chance to race with you guys, I won't be a regular but I'll certainly try to make as many races as possible, even though I'm not usually into this S&M thing :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

> You really can't start a policy of restarting like that, someone alwaysends > up losing out in the end, it is best just to take things as they come,some > days are good, and others will be bad. Just like real racing. > I hate to see anyone get involved in a wreck, especially on the first lap, > but you gotta just take whatever happens with a grain of salt and move on. > In N2002, just like N4, when you get fields of the size we had today,things > will happen, it's inevitable, especially when you have so many driversthat > aren't used to racing with each other yet. Heck, I am in a very goodleague > and we have been racing together for some time, but when the fields are > large things are going to happen, that's the trade-off for the greatphysics > model we have. > I had fun while I was there, don't know how it went after I left but wedid > at least get some good green flag racing in. > Thanks for having me guys, and hopefully will be able to race more with ya > in the future.. One problem that I have, more so in GPL, is hearing my own engine and tyres at the start of a race. With everyone else's engines revving like mad, I often end up losing control because I can't hear what my car's doing. Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions? -- Damien Smith [email hidden] ICQ: 77028579 F1 2001 rank: -5.658

????? Its has nothing to do with winning.......like one of the othr posts said, it will be an endless loop, and where do you stop? when do you say ok we dont restart this one...If I get punted on lap one and am the only that wrecks you going to restart it for me?? And before you say ya but your just one guy.. you are one guy that wanted a restart.....1, 5 10 its the same....take your lumps, thats racing sometimes :( "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:omGy8.7157$[email hidden]...

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| Forgive me for assuming this, but I thought these RASCAR races were about | having fun - not nessecarily (sp?) win at all cost... ???? | | -- | ed_ | | | "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding | news:k%Fy8.2453$[email hidden]... | > Although I do sympathize with your situation Ed, I'm one of those guys | that | > feels restarts are totally unfair in any race series. Their are exeptions | > for mass boots and the such. Typically what will happen in a restart is | > similar to what happened the first time only different cars involved. Is | > that fair? It could end up in an endless loop. | > | > I had a good time in the race even though it was darn ugly :) | Unfortunately | > I discoed with 15 to go. | > | > I'm finally starting to get some feeling back in my butt cheeks <g>. | > | > Mitch | > | > | | |

Maybe my post came across wrong Ed but I surely didn't say anything about winning at any cost. Matter of fact I didn't even consider the end of the race when I replied, but rather the start of it :0) This should be fun for all but as we all know s__t happens. From the races Ive seen in RASCAR this race was the exeption not the rule. I would bet homestead went much better than the dega race (I had to bail). Mitch On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:19:48 -0700, Ed Solheim wrote:

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> Forgive me for assuming this, but I thought these RASCAR races were > about having fun - not nessecarily (sp?) win at all cost... ???? > > -- > ed_ > > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > news:k%Fy8.2453$[email hidden]... >> Although I do sympathize with your situation Ed, I'm one of those guys > that >> feels restarts are totally unfair in any race series. Their are >> exeptions for mass boots and the such. Typically what will happen in a >> restart is similar to what happened the first time only different cars >> involved. Is that fair? It could end up in an endless loop. >> >> I had a good time in the race even though it was darn ugly :) > Unfortunately >> I discoed with 15 to go. >> >> I'm finally starting to get some feeling back in my butt cheeks <g>. >> >> Mitch >> >>

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aaffau$aco31$[email hidden]...

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> Not sure about the restarting - it's a two-faced medal. A race is a race, > and if an incident occurs, that's racing. Even if it takes out half the > field. > > Homestead didn't have any havoc, and I saw fast guys, good racing and > intelligent driving around me (Colin!). Unfortunately we had quite a few > yellows again. More than I was able to sit out at 2am, so I quit after > around 40 laps, wrote this... and went to bed :-) >

Not that these two facts are related (!) but after you left there weren't any more :-) (and for those who weren't there, Achim didn't cause any of 'em)

In article <6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in how >the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you >still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > >I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very >disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that >got damaged on that first incident...

I understand your disappointment, Ed. I didn't restart for a couple of reasons. 1)We had no guarantee that it wouldn't happen AGAIN. The same drivers were still in the race. 2)I don't want people to think that they have a 'free' shot at a race. If they know that their screwup will take them out of the race, they'll learn NOT to screw up. Hopefully... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the same thing happend to you. Brian Oster aka ZugZug1 On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >Ed Solheim wrote: >> > >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, no >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the >Tri Oval as went green once ? > >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus BF >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I got >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" >--Groucho Marx--

Brian Oster

report that.. "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the | same thing happend to you. | | Brian Oster | aka ZugZug1 | | | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: | | > | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: | >> | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, no | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the | >Tri Oval as went green once ? | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus BF | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I got | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha | > | > | >Beers and cheers | >(uncle) Goy | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" | >--Groucho Marx-- | | Brian Oster |

Not sure about the restarting - it's a two-faced medal. A race is a race, and if an incident occurs, that's racing. Even if it takes out half the field. Homestead didn't have any havoc, and I saw fast guys, good racing and intelligent driving around me (Colin!). Unfortunately we had quite a few yellows again. More than I was able to sit out at 2am, so I quit after around 40 laps, wrote this... and went to bed :-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed inhow

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> the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > > I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very > disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that > got damaged on that first incident... > > Grandy asked why we should restart..... cannot understand why you didnt

get

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> that Mike... > Just like you wanted to protect your lead - I wanted to have a shot at > actually finishing this race.... > > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? > > Hope Homestead went better though. > > -- > ed_ > (/Disappointed) > >

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed inhow > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? That is really bad luck for you unfortunately. You didn't end up missing anything though. :-) > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? I've been in all 12 RASCAR races so far, and only this one and Pocono were full of yellows. Not sure why though. I guess it's just people being too aggressive. The other races have been very, very clean. Talladega did have the biggest field yet (35 I think) so that had a little to do with it. I did have a lot of fun in practice though. Even got bump drafted by ymenard thanks to Grant Reeve. I expected the same type of stuff in the race but.........what a disappointment. David G Fisher

No worries, Goy. I thought you were having some kind of problem & I went to pass you on the inside to try to keep up w/ the draft, & saw ya coming & couldn't get out of the way in time... I wanted to keep the draft 'cause I figured that just HAD to be the last yellow ;( . Oh well, there were only 2 or 3 (or 4 or 5...) more. Brian "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer fortaking you > out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve abogus BF > and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > > Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks andtried to > keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race andthen I got > that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paidthe > price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > > It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I hadat least > *one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > > As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > > "You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > "You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -gotcha

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> > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx-- >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r5Ky8.205654$[email hidden]... > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > >Even got bump drafted by ymenard > thanks to Grant Reeve. I expected the same type of stuff in the race > but.........what a disappointment. That sould of read as "bump drafted past ymenard by G. Reeve". BTW, Ymenard drove without pedals today which must of been pretty damn difficult. David G Fisher

That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the outside before the line. The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've yet to see it work that way. -John "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > report that.. > > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

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> | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > | same thing happend to you. > | > | Brian Oster > | aka ZugZug1 > | > | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > | > | > > | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > | >> > | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1,

no > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogusBF > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then Igot

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> | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha > | > > | > > | >Beers and cheers > | >(uncle) Goy > | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > | >--Groucho Marx-- > | > | Brian Oster > | > >

I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he had passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. Black flag. Hope this helps. -John "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the > outside before the line. > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've > yet to see it work that way. > > -John > > > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > > report that.. > > > > > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > > | same thing happend to you. > > | > > | Brian Oster > > | aka ZugZug1 > > | > > | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > | > > | > > > | > > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > > | >> > > | > > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > > | > > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, > no > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in

the > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > > | > > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for takingyou

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> > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus > BF > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > > | > > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I > got > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > > | > > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at

least

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> > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > > | > > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > > | > > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha > > | > > > | > > > | >Beers and cheers > > | >(uncle) Goy > > | > > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > | > > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > > | >--Groucho Marx-- > > | > > | Brian Oster > > | > > > > > >

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he had > passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you > passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. > Black flag. > > Hope this helps. > > -John

Hopefully this will NOT become common...we don't need a race-group full of guys who use in-game quirks to screw our fellow drivers... dave henrie

Just guessing, but chances are it was an innocent mistake; the guy probably didn't realize he was safe passing that way, so slowed down. Then again, Sprague set up Spencer at Bristol the same way......with the same results<G> -John "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FpKy8.161132$CH1.120097@sccrnsc02... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), hehad

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you > > passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. > > Black flag. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > -John > Hopefully this will NOT become common...we don't need a race-group full

of > guys who use in-game quirks to screw our fellow drivers... > dave henrie > >

I know passing to the right is illegal, but he said the guy passed him on the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning he passed BACK a car that should have been behind him in the first place.. I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong... "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the | outside before the line. | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've | yet to see it work that way. | | -John | | | "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... | > report that.. | > | > | > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message | news:[email hidden]... | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the | > | same thing happend to you. | > | | > | Brian Oster | > | aka ZugZug1 | > | | > | | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: | > | | > | > | > | > | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: | > | >> | > | > | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts | > | > | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, | no | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? | > | > | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus | BF | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings | > | > | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I | got | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same | > | > | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience | > | > | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules | > | > | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha | > | > | > | > | > | >Beers and cheers | > | >(uncle) Goy | > | > | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ | > | > | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" | > | >--Groucho Marx-- | > | | > | Brian Oster | > | | > | > | | |

This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake, however you want to label it... "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he had | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. | Black flag. | | Hope this helps. | | -John | | | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:[email hidden]... | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the | > outside before the line. | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've | > yet to see it work that way. | > | > -John | > | > | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... | > > report that.. | > > | > > | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message | > news:[email hidden]... | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the | > > | same thing happend to you. | > > | | > > | Brian Oster | > > | aka ZugZug1 | > > | | > > | | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: | > > | | > > | > | > > | > | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: | > > | >> | > > | > | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts | > > | > | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, | > no | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in | the | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? | > > | > | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking | you | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus | > BF | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings | > > | > | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I | > got | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same | > > | > | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at | least | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience | > > | > | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules | > > | > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha | > > | > | > > | > | > > | >Beers and cheers | > > | >(uncle) Goy | > > | > | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ | > > | > | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- | > > | | > > | Brian Oster | > > | | > > | > > | > | > | |

Thanks again Eldred. everything was fine (at least for me) until double file restarts started. Got caufgt up in the mess from the second one. Fun anyway. I have to agree with the no restart, Bamadano

Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the time to let it all hang out. My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and follow in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It would have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and then the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy. It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after the first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my confusion about passing under caution. I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too and then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too but did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the middle. My apologies for my transgressions. Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congrats to Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have given you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you need 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have happened so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the guys that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the yellows? Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. -- Robert Huggins [email hidden] "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > My apologies #328. >

Brian Oster wrote:

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> > How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game > where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the > start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > same thing happend to you.

Nope, was told to stay behind the #7 car, even though I was in the right place according to the F2 screen Today it's no big deal, but last night....:-), in the heat of the moment, after being patient and just keeping out of trouble in an incident packed race, I was hopping mad, which explains my total brain fade even though it doesn't excuse it Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > That sould of read as "bump drafted past ymenard by G. Reeve". I was about to reply to your other post with "I never bumped you in the practice I think?" until I read that :) I don't bump-draft, it's just something I learned hard from back on the NROS. Many of us developed from there a no-bump racing attitude because if you slightly mis-aligned your car by even half a feet, a wreck would ensue! I have this nice 900kb replay during practice where 7-8 cars are just chaotically and wildly placed in a drafting group. > BTW, Ymenard drove without pedals today which must of been pretty damn > difficult. I found out just before the race that you could plug the wheel without the pedals, so I say why not just enter the race? Only at Daytona or Dega would I had done that. My right thumb was sore from keeping it pressed down on the button while keeping a fair grip. It's not very well placed, it's too far down compared to the spine portion of the wheel where you normally place your right hand. I didn't want to take the risk of mapping the gas to the back paddle, the plastic would had been too weak :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote > From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy. I noticed that even up front. I remember you making that comment on that when you were behind me (during the first dozens of laps you were I think 6-7th while I was 5th). Basically I just kept an open space in front of me so one of those 4 cars could easily come back in line instead of creating 2-wide trouble. It's always good for the lead pack early on a restart to focus on single-file racing, because the lead pack will split up. It's much safer to race up front with 8 cars instead of 20. > Didn't you need > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would havehappened > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even theguys > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > yellows? I was the last one in the leading group to pit, I think. I personally felt that it was too dangerous too early in the race to get some fuel. You would had comeback far into the field and we already had had 3-4 cautions back there. Eventually later in the race cars would drop out of the race or go a lap down, so you would comeback further in front if you pitted after half-point. You would also have fresher tyres, it's never a bad thing at Dega when you want to hold that apron pass low into turn 3 :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... Congrats to > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have given > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you need > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would havehappened > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even theguys > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > yellows? No, Mike and I were chatting, in-race, and we knew that we pitted at the right time - we had enough fuel to finish, plus about three laps, I think. Worked well for both of us, he got a deserved second, and I was in the top 5 a lot until getting rear-ended (and the guy didn't even buy me flowers!)

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aagju4$am17r$[email hidden]... > Hehe, bad luck that I didn't stay then. > > We could have had a good race as we seemed pretty evenly matched. Thanksfor > giving me room and letting me have the lead when I tried to take it btw. I > hope me squeezing beside you didn't get you into trouble as it spoiledyour > line. >Nope, no problems at all :-) Glad you enjoyed your sleep! (btw, did my private email to you get there ok?)

Thats one thing I have never been able to figure out. Seems Daytona and Talladega bring out the worst in people. It isn't a balls to wall, dive under everyone you can simply because of the nature of the track. Unless you have been racing together as a group for a long time it is hard to tell what the guy behind you is going to do. I found only a few that would draft with me and no one really wanted to go outside. That only leaves a pass on the inside and the guy in front of you doesn't want to get hung out. Thats where the accidents come from. The outside groove at these tracks is just as fast as the inside but you need 3-4 cars to make it work. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r5Ky8.205654$[email hidden]... > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]... > > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in > how > > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > > That is really bad luck for you unfortunately. You didn't end up missing > anything though. :-) > > > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would > > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? > > I've been in all 12 RASCAR races so far, and only this one and Pocono were > full of yellows. Not sure why though. I guess it's just people being too > aggressive. The other races have been very, very clean. Talladega did have > the biggest field yet (35 I think) so that had a little to do with it. I did > have a lot of fun in practice though. Even got bump drafted by ymenard > thanks to Grant Reeve. I expected the same type of stuff in the race > but.........what a disappointment. > > David G Fisher > >

This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting I've found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at the exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over correct, which is why most people wreck. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3%Oy8.15$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > That sould of read as "bump drafted past ymenard by G. Reeve". > > I was about to reply to your other post with "I never bumped you in the > practice I think?" until I read that :) > > I don't bump-draft, it's just something I learned hard from back on the > NROS. Many of us developed from there a no-bump racing attitude because if > you slightly mis-aligned your car by even half a feet, a wreck would ensue! > I have this nice 900kb replay during practice where 7-8 cars are just > chaotically and wildly placed in a drafting group. > > > > BTW, Ymenard drove without pedals today which must of been pretty damn > > difficult. > > I found out just before the race that you could plug the wheel without the > pedals, so I say why not just enter the race? Only at Daytona or Dega would > I had done that. My right thumb was sore from keeping it pressed down on > the button while keeping a fair grip. It's not very well placed, it's too > far down compared to the spine portion of the wheel where you normally place > your right hand. I didn't want to take the risk of mapping the gas to the > back paddle, the plastic would had been too weak :) > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Not so much a bug as a programming nightmare. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YbNy8.124160$[email hidden]... > This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake, however you want to label it... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he had > | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you > | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. > | Black flag. > | > | Hope this helps. > | > | -John > | > | > | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | news:[email hidden]... > | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black > | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the > | > outside before the line. > | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've > | > yet to see it work that way. > | > > | > -John > | > > | > > | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > | > > report that.. > | > > > | > > > | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > | > news:[email hidden]... > | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game > | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the > | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > | > > | same thing happend to you. > | > > | > | > > | Brian Oster > | > > | aka ZugZug1 > | > > | > | > > | > | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > | > > | > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > | > > | >> > | > > | > > | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a > | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > | > > | > > | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, > | > no > | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in > | the > | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > | > > | > > | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking > | you > | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus > | > BF > | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > | > > | > > | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to > | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I > | > got > | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the > | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > | > > | > > | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at > | least > | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > | > > | > > | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > | > > | > > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | >Beers and cheers > | > > | >(uncle) Goy > | > > | > > | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > | > > | > > | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- > | > > | > | > > | Brian Oster > | > > | > | > > > | > > > | > > | > > | > | > >

Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing left is not. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YaNy8.246579$[email hidden]... > I know passing to the right is illegal, but he said the guy passed him on the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning > he passed BACK a car that should have been behind him in the first place.. I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get black > | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to the > | outside before the line. > | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but I've > | yet to see it work that way. > | > | -John > | > | > | "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > | > report that.. > | > > | > > | > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > | news:[email hidden]... > | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game > | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the > | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > | > | same thing happend to you. > | > | > | > | Brian Oster > | > | aka ZugZug1 > | > | > | > | > | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > | > | > | > | > > | > | > > | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > | > | >> > | > | > > | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a > | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > | > | > > | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from L1, > | no > | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in the > | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > | > | > > | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking you > | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a bogus > | BF > | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > | > | > > | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried to > | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then I > | got > | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the > | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > | > | > > | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at least > | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > | > | > > | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > | > | > > | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - gotcha > | > | > > | > | > > | > | >Beers and cheers > | > | >(uncle) Goy > | > | > > | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > | > | > > | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > | > | >--Groucho Marx-- > | > | > | > | Brian Oster > | > | > | > > | > > | > | > | > >

I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restart I saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the racing will be much better. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the time > to let it all hang out. > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and follow > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It would > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and then > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy. > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after the > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my > confusion about passing under caution. > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too and > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too but > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the middle. > My apologies for my transgressions. > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congrats to > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have given > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you need > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have happened > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the guys > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > yellows? > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > -- > Robert Huggins > [email hidden] > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > >

I saw that Frank and I certainly appreciated it when I got hung out early on. Those are the kind of considerations that get payed back tenfold. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:I5Py8.16$[email hidden]... > >"Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote > > From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy. > > I noticed that even up front. I remember you making that comment on that > when you were behind me (during the first dozens of laps you were I think > 6-7th while I was 5th). Basically I just kept an open space in front of me > so one of those 4 cars could easily come back in line instead of creating > 2-wide trouble. It's always good for the lead pack early on a restart to > focus on single-file racing, because the lead pack will split up. It's much > safer to race up front with 8 cars instead of 20. > > > > > Didn't you need > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > happened > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the > guys > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > yellows? > > I was the last one in the leading group to pit, I think. I personally felt > that it was too dangerous too early in the race to get some fuel. You would > had comeback far into the field and we already had had 3-4 cautions back > there. Eventually later in the race cars would drop out of the race or go a > lap down, so you would comeback further in front if you pitted after > half-point. You would also have fresher tyres, it's never a bad thing at > Dega when you want to hold that apron pass low into turn 3 :) > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

It was fun racing with you Colin. I was stationed in England back in the late 70's and spent 2 years in the Ipswitch area. Where abouts are you from. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5vPy8.12830$[email hidden]... > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > Congrats to > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have given > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you need > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > happened > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the > guys > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > yellows? > > No, Mike and I were chatting, in-race, and we knew that we pitted at the > right time - we had enough fuel to finish, plus about three laps, I think. > Worked well for both of us, he got a deserved second, and I was in the top 5 > a lot until getting rear-ended (and the guy didn't even buy me flowers!) > >

The thing that pissed me off is that a bunch of people wrecked on the caution lap just before the green came out, and at least three of us got black-flagged for passing low to gain a position or some such nonsense. It was either avoid/pass the wreck or get caught up in it. We got screwed because someone was driving with his head up his ass. In article <6mEy8.6966$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in how > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!? > > I know i'm goign to sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm also very > disappointed that we didnt restart... must have been atleast 10 cars that > got damaged on that first incident... > > Grandy asked why we should restart..... cannot understand why you didnt get > that Mike... > Just like you wanted to protect your lead - I wanted to have a shot at > actually finishing this race.... > > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and would > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past? > > Hope Homestead went better though. > > -- > ed_ > (/Disappointed) > > >

-- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <aafcqq$af0rq$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > You really can't start a policy of restarting like that, someone always > ends > > up losing out in the end, it is best just to take things as they come, > some > > days are good, and others will be bad. Just like real racing. > > I hate to see anyone get involved in a wreck, especially on the first lap, > > but you gotta just take whatever happens with a grain of salt and move on. > > In N2002, just like N4, when you get fields of the size we had today, > things > > will happen, it's inevitable, especially when you have so many drivers > that > > aren't used to racing with each other yet. Heck, I am in a very good > league > > and we have been racing together for some time, but when the fields are > > large things are going to happen, that's the trade-off for the great > physics > > model we have. > > I had fun while I was there, don't know how it went after I left but we > did > > at least get some good green flag racing in. > > Thanks for having me guys, and hopefully will be able to race more with ya > > in the future.. > > One problem that I have, more so in GPL, is hearing my own engine and tyres > at the start of a race. With everyone else's engines revving like mad, I > often end up losing control because I can't hear what my car's doing. > Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions? > > -- > Damien Smith > [email hidden] > ICQ: 77028579 > F1 2001 rank: -5.658 > > >

You can either turn down opponents engines, or turn up your own. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Man, I had a TERRIBLE race. During one of the cautions, I made a pitstop out of 18th or 19th spot. Went too far in the pit box, so I tried to shift into reverse. Several times. No good. Finally went back on the track to go around again. This time, another car pitted in the stall right before mine. I ended up too far RIGHT in the stall. I could pull forward, but then I couldn't back up again. Sigh...go around again. This time, I was alone in the pits, and could hit my pit stall. My next yellow flag stop(this one after a wreck that saw me flip over) met with similar results - no reverse. After about 40 or so laps we had ANOTHER crash. I made it through about 75% of it, then got sideswiped and went sliding. I ended up against the inside wall. Directly heading into the wall. No angle, and with no reverse, I was stuck. I could have probably called for a tow truck, but I'd been way off the pace due to damage, and was just in the way. I quit, then ran 2 GPL races for one of my race clubs, getting a 2nd and a 1st. When I came back to Sierra, the Daytona race had JUST ended, so I was able to run Homestead. I did better in that race, but still finished a lap down. :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hehe, bad luck that I didn't stay then. We could have had a good race as we seemed pretty evenly matched. Thanks for giving me room and letting me have the lead when I tried to take it btw. I hope me squeezing beside you didn't get you into trouble as it spoiled your line. But at the time when I left, I reckoned we'd be getting another couple of yellows in the second half as well (seemed likely, after all we'd spent most of the first 40 laps under yellow) and since I was extremely tired (it was 2am, I had been up until 5:30am the night before, and then I'd slept only ~4 hours), I decided to go to sleep. To be honest, my vision was so blurred at times that I was having a hard time seeing details like the line that limits the track on the inside when approaching T1/T3 at speed. Before the race I'd actually been wondering whether I'd be a menace for the others because of this. But then the racer within me prevailed and I just _had_ to start the race. I should have had a cup of coffee before, and will do so the next time I join a RASCAR event. Anyway, I am at peace with my decision, I slept wonderfully last night :-) Achim "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SOHy8.12633$[email hidden]... > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aaffau$aco31$[email hidden]... > > Not sure about the restarting - it's a two-faced medal. A race is arace,

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> > and if an incident occurs, that's racing. Even if it takes out half the > > field. > > > > Homestead didn't have any havoc, and I saw fast guys, good racing and > > intelligent driving around me (Colin!). Unfortunately we had quite a few > > yellows again. More than I was able to sit out at 2am, so I quit after > > around 40 laps, wrote this... and went to bed :-) > > > > Not that these two facts are related (!) but after you left there weren't > any more :-) > (and for those who weren't there, Achim didn't cause any of 'em) > >

I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did positioning my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I hoped to create some confusion. On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I was just quicker. About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restartI > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and theracing

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> will be much better. > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the > time > > to let it all hang out. > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > follow > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It

would > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and > then > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing > crazy. > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart afterthe > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution tooand > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed toobut > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in themiddle. > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congratsto > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would havegiven > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't youneed

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> > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > happened > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the > guys > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > yellows? > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > -- > > Robert Huggins > > [email hidden] > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <ueSy8.17302$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes: >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing left >is not. But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam on the brakes, you risk a pileup... Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty? Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well, fwiw, it'd be nigh impossible to program the code to recognize what was happening in a case like that, IMO. Does stink though. -John "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YbNy8.124160$[email hidden]... > This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake, howeveryou want to label it... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... > | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), hehad

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> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you > | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. > | Black flag. > | > | Hope this helps. > | > | -John > | > | > | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | news:[email hidden]... > | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get

black > | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want tothe > | > outside before the line. > | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, butI've

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> | > yet to see it work that way. > | > > | > -John > | > > | > > | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > | > > report that.. > | > > > | > > > | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > | > news:[email hidden]... > | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up

game > | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFOREthe > | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for somereason > | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flageven > | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I wasin

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> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > | > > | same thing happend to you. > | > > | > | > > | Brian Oster > | > > | aka ZugZug1 > | > > | > | > > | > | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]>

wrote:

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> | > > | > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > | > > | >> > | > > | > > | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's

a > | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > | > > | > > | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front fromL1, > | > no > | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a haltin > | the > | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > | > > | > > | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer fortaking > | you > | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve abogus > | > BF > | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > | > > | > > | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and triedto > | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race andthen I > | > got > | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paidthe

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> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > | > > | > > | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at > | least > | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > | > > | > > | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > | > > | > > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -

gotcha

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> | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | >Beers and cheers > | > > | >(uncle) Goy > | > > | > > | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > | > > | > > | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- > | > > | > | > > | Brian Oster > | > > | > | > > > | > > > | > > | > > | > | > >

I took " where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the start-finish " to mean he passed to the right ? -John "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YaNy8.246579$[email hidden]... > I know passing to the right is illegal, but he said the guy passed him onthe LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning > he passed BACK a car that should have been behind him in the first place..I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong... > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... > | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you getblack > | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want tothe > | outside before the line. > | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, butI've

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> | yet to see it work that way. > | > | -John > | > | > | "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > | > report that.. > | > > | > > | > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > | news:[email hidden]... > | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up

game > | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFOREthe

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> | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason > | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even > | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in > | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the > | > | same thing happend to you. > | > | > | > | Brian Oster > | > | aka ZugZug1 > | > | > | > | > | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]>

wrote:

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> | > | > | > | > > | > | > > | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > | > | >> > | > | > > | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a > | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > | > | > > | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from

L1, > | no > | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt inthe > | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > | > | > > | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for takingyou > | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve abogus > | BF > | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > | > | > > | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and triedto > | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and thenI > | got > | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the > | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > | > | > > | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had atleast > | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > | > | > > | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > | > | > > | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -gotcha

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> | > | > > | > | > > | > | >Beers and cheers > | > | >(uncle) Goy > | > | > > | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > | > | > > | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > | > | >--Groucho Marx-- > | > | > | > | Brian Oster > | > | > | > > | > > | > | > | > >

Harjan, I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice at the early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you know one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared you learned by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left. I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a rule totally against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that's just asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone get a lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just parked it. Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for trouble especially with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to be no racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun" that would be a hard rule to enforce.. Don Burnette "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I didpositioning

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> my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I > hoped to create some confusion. > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I

was

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> just quicker. > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last

restart > I > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one andI'm > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. Ithink > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racingup

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> > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > racing > > will be much better. > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is

the

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> > time > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > follow > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > would > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop

and

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> > then > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing > > crazy. > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after > the > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver,

you

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> > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too > and > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too > but > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > middle. > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congrats > to > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > given > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you > need > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > happened > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even

the > > guys > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > > yellows? > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging fordinner

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> > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Huggins > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <ueSy8.17302$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passingleft > >is not. > > But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall > suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's > about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam onthe > brakes, you risk a pileup... > Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty? > Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left? > > Eldred Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way off speed that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissed and pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f. As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is enforced in N2002. And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged. Don Burnette

Just as Don says Eldred. Though I have yet to see the game work as it says in the manual in this regard. Had a guy in one of my league races spin his tires/get squirrly on a restart; car behind went left to avoid him, flagged. Re the passing/giving spot back, the rule is enforced only at the line itself; that's where the car positions are measured. -John "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bFTy8.247358$[email hidden]...

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> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <ueSy8.17302$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing > left > > >is not. > > > > But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the

wall > > suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize thatit's > > about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jamon > the > > brakes, you risk a pileup... > > Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still apenalty? > > Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left? > > > > Eldred > > Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way offspeed > that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissedand

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> pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any > black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f. > As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to > prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and > passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is > enforced in N2002. > And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the > spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged. > > Don Burnette > > > >

I didn't know the rule on keeping the speed constant until the flag drops, I delayed the start indeed by speeding up. And indeed after that I just keeped the speed constant until the green flag was waved. What could be the problem when racing back to the line? "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qCTy8.226658$%[email hidden]... > Harjan, > I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice atthe > early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you know > one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared youlearned > by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left. > I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a ruletotally > against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that's just > asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone get a > lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just > parked it. > Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for troubleespecially

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> with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to be no > racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun" that > would be a hard rule to enforce.. > > Don Burnette > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did > positioning > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just

to > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, andI > > hoped to create some confusion. > > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than theguys

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> > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I > was > > just quicker. > > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of

an

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> > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last > restart > > I > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and > I'm > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I > think > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing > up > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > > racing > > > will be much better. > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Grandy > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is > the > > > time > > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > > follow > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > > would > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop > and > > > then > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not

happen > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes andracing > > > crazy. > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restartafter > > the > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, > you > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start ofmy > > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under cautiontoo > > and > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowedtoo

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> > but > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > > middle. > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions.

Congrats > > to > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > > given > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn'tyou

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> > need > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > > happened > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even > the > > > guys > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of

the

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> > > > yellows? > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for > dinner > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Robert Huggins > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Cars slowing much faster after taking the yellow flag, not so much a problem at Dega, but at some of the smaller tracks they have to slow a lot quicker to stay behind the pace car, and others behind doing the same inevitably ends up in someone getting damaged by getting rear ended. But like I said, this being mainly for fun and not really an official league with rules and points, would be very hard to enforce. Just use a lot of caution when trying to race back to the line.. Don Burnette "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9bUy8.398800$Lj7.16964411@Flipper... > > I didn't know the rule on keeping the speed constant until the flag drops,I > delayed the start indeed by speeding up. And indeed after that I justkeeped

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> the speed constant until the green flag was waved. > > What could be the problem when racing back to the line? > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qCTy8.226658$%[email hidden]... > > Harjan, > > I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice at > the > > early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you

know > > one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared you > learned > > by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left. > > I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a rule > totally > > against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that'sjust > > asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone geta > > lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just > > parked it. > > Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for trouble > especially > > with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to beno > > racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun"that

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> > would be a hard rule to enforce.. > > > > Don Burnette > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > > > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did > > positioning > > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all

the > > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you beforethe > > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just > to > > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guysin > > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low,and > I > > > hoped to create some confusion. > > > > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the > guys > > > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front.I > > was > > > just quicker. > > > > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lotof

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> > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit

of > an > > > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last > > restart > > > I > > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into oneand > > I'm > > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I > > think > > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty goodracing > > up > > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience andthe

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> > > racing > > > > will be much better. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mike Grandy > > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap

is > > the > > > > time > > > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draftand > > > > follow > > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval.It > > > would > > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pitstop

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> > and > > > > then > > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not > happen > > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and > racing > > > > crazy. > > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart > after > > > the > > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in

a > > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with thatmaneuver,

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> > you > > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of > my > > > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution > too > > > and > > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed > too > > > but > > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in

an

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> > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > > > middle. > > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. > Congrats > > > to > > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would

have

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> > > given > > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't > you > > > need > > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > > > happened > > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out,

even

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> > the > > > > guys > > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of > the > > > > > yellows? > > > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for > > dinner > > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Robert Huggins > > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under the yellow early in the race. We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificed his lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the end of our race much more enjoyable. spark18 "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The thing that pissed me off is that a bunch of people wrecked on the > caution lap just before the green came out, and at least three of us got > black-flagged for passing low to gain a position or some such nonsense. > It was either avoid/pass the wreck or get caught up in it. > > We got screwed because someone was driving with his head up his ass. > >

On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:59:10 GMT, "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote: >About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of >confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. There are pro's and con's on both sides of the issue. Yesterday it created a number of multicar crashes that could have been avoided, simply because everyone thinks when cars are spinning in front of you, this is your opportunity to make up some positions. This isn't the way Nascar handles it, because lives are on the line. I would consider "racing back to the yellow" ok when the track is clear and you are in contention with another driver. Trying to thread your way through spinning cars with the throttle full bore is just crazy though. As long as we're all on the same page though, I'll live with what's decided. Tim Wortman North American Simulation Series www.nasscar.com

In article <bFTy8.247358$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <ueSy8.17302$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing > left > > >is not. > > > > But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall > > suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's > > about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam on > the > > brakes, you risk a pileup... > > Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty? > > Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left? > > > > Eldred > > Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way off speed > that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissed and > pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any > black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f. > As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to > prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and > passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is > enforced in N2002. > And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the > spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged. > > Don Burnette >

Theory is real nice, but yesterday, THREE of us were black flagged LONG before we even crossed the S/F line. That pretty much ended our race. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

"spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O5Vy8.32076$[email hidden]... > That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged > and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under > the yellow early in the race. > > We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately > for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificedhis > lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the > end of our race much more enjoyable. Mike Grandy was leading and I was in second when you got your lap back. I don't think he lost the lead. I did get passed for second and almost ran over by another car though. Did John Simmons get spun by someone when he was trying to get his lap back at the same time? I thought I saw a car go spinning down low coming back to take the caution. It was tough trying to be nice and give everyone their lap back and not get ran over in the process. Kyle

IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very hazardous and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" imho.. :-) -- ed_ "Mike Grandy" said: > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting I've > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at the > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over correct, > which is why most people wreck. >

In article <mtVy8.57147$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:O5Vy8.32076$[email hidden]... > > That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged > > and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under > > the yellow early in the race. > > > > We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately > > for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificed > his > > lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the > > end of our race much more enjoyable. > > Mike Grandy was leading and I was in second when you got your lap back. I > don't think he lost the lead. I did get passed for second and almost ran > over by another car though. Did John Simmons get spun by someone when he was > trying to get his lap back at the same time? I thought I saw a car go > spinning down low coming back to take the caution. It was tough trying to be > nice and give everyone their lap back and not get ran over in the process. >

I think Steve Sparks lifted a bit as he crossed the center of the tri- oval, and I wasn't anticipating that. I mtouched is bumper and that was it. On the whole, the race pretty much sucked for me. A) I got collected in the lap-1 wreck in turn 3 B) I got black flagged for passing the caution wreck C) I asked for a lap-back concession and got by frank, but Don didn't appear as if he was convinced he wanted to let me by until halfway thru turn 3, and we touched, wrecking both of us pretty bad. D) I was behind Steve trying to get my lap back again, and spun myself. E) I got caught up in the last wreck on the last lap (turn 3). Needless to say, I wasn't a happy camper at the end of the race. In fact, I'm still a little twisted anbout the whole thing. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Thanks to you to Kyle, and apologies to John. I wasn't aware of lifting but it could have happened. I was pretty close to topper and all I remember is trying to get the lap back without causing a wreck. If I'm ever in the position to help someone out I'm going to remember this. spark > > > > Mike Grandy was leading and I was in second when you got your lap back.I > > don't think he lost the lead. I did get passed for second and almost ran > > over by another car though. Did John Simmons get spun by someone when hewas > > trying to get his lap back at the same time? I thought I saw a car go > > spinning down low coming back to take the caution. It was tough tryingto be > > nice and give everyone their lap back and not get ran over in theprocess.

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> > > > I think Steve Sparks lifted a bit as he crossed the center of the tri- > oval, and I wasn't anticipating that. I mtouched is bumper and that was > it. > >

Well, single file means single file and most times when someone positions themselves to the inside like that they are intending to try to get a run. You did get a bit of a run but I blocked the hole so it really didn't matter. I don't consider the run you got as jumping the start, but it was close. Last lap, I would almost expect it. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did positioning > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I > hoped to create some confusion. > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I was > just quicker. > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restart > I > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > racing > > will be much better. > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the > > time > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > follow > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > would > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and > > then > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing > > crazy. > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after > the > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too > and > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too > but > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > middle. > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congrats > to > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > given > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you > need > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > happened > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the > > guys > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > > yellows? > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Huggins > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

About the racing back to the flag, most leagues don't allow it so I just wasn't prepared for it. No problem at all, as long as everyone knows and it doesn't cause massive pileups. It also makes it difficult to give laps back when you can. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did positioning > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I > hoped to create some confusion. > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I was > just quicker. > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restart > I > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > racing > > will be much better. > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the > > time > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > follow > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > would > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and > > then > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing > > crazy. > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after > the > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too > and > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too > but > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > middle. > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. Congrats > to > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > given > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you > need > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > happened > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the > > guys > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the > > > yellows? > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Huggins > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Np sparky, try to give them back when I can. I didn't realize we raced back to the s/f line which makes it a little tougher to do. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O5Vy8.32076$[email hidden]... > That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged > and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under > the yellow early in the race. > > We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately > for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificed his > lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the > end of our race much more enjoyable. > > spark18 > > "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > The thing that pissed me off is that a bunch of people wrecked on the > > caution lap just before the green came out, and at least three of us got > > black-flagged for passing low to gain a position or some such nonsense. > > It was either avoid/pass the wreck or get caught up in it. > > > > We got screwed because someone was driving with his head up his ass. > > > > > >

Thats was earlier and he did get spun but I'm not sure who by. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mtVy8.57147$[email hidden]... > > "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:O5Vy8.32076$[email hidden]... > > That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged > > and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under > > the yellow early in the race. > > > > We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately > > for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificed > his > > lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the > > end of our race much more enjoyable. > > Mike Grandy was leading and I was in second when you got your lap back. I > don't think he lost the lead. I did get passed for second and almost ran > over by another car though. Did John Simmons get spun by someone when he was > trying to get his lap back at the same time? I thought I saw a car go > spinning down low coming back to take the caution. It was tough trying to be > nice and give everyone their lap back and not get ran over in the process. > > Kyle > > > >

Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it if it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... > IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very hazardous > and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" > imho.. :-) > > -- > ed_ > > "Mike Grandy" said: > > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting > I've > > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at > the > > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over > correct, > > which is why most people wreck. > > > > >

The racing back to the line caused no less than 15 other cars to get wrecked. I was on the brakes whenever I saw smoke. If your in a turn you will drop to the apron, which was good cause the guys that didn't lift cuased mucho mayhem as they blew right past me at 185+ right into the smoke and dirt. I was more worried about getting hit in the rear than what was happening in front. I was also passed by quite a few guys the first 2 cautions which kinda pissed me off cause both times the cars that passed me could have easily given back the stolen positions. It's not like I was stopped on the track, I was being cautious weaving through the mess. After that I kust kept my foot in it and hoped for the best. What happened to the "gentlemens" agreement? Mitch On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:00:30 -0700, Mike Grandy wrote:

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> Np sparky, try to give them back when I can. I didn't realize we raced > back to the s/f line which makes it a little tougher to do. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "spark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:O5Vy8.32076$[email hidden]... >> That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black >> flagged >> and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line >> under the yellow early in the race. >> >> We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, >> fortunately >> for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who >> sacrificed > his >> lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made >> the end of our race much more enjoyable. >> >> spark18 >> >> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > The thing that pissed me off is that a bunch of people wrecked on the >> > caution lap just before the green came out, and at least three of us >> > got black-flagged for passing low to gain a position or some such >> > nonsense. It was either avoid/pass the wreck or get caught up in it. >> > >> > We got screwed because someone was driving with his head up his ass. >> > >> > >> > >> >

In article <ElWy8.32082$[email hidden]>, sbrunt1 @maine.rr.com says...

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> Thanks to you to Kyle, and apologies to John. I wasn't aware of lifting but > it could have happened. I was pretty close to topper and all I remember is > trying to get the lap back without causing a wreck. > > If I'm ever in the position to help someone out I'm going to remember this. > > spark > >

No worries steve. I'm not mad at anyone, just a bit frustrated with the entire race. -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

This is not *real NASCAR racing Mike, our limitations are far far greater than when you get in the real world, hence my disliking of it.... It might work for real - but it dont work well online. Now if you spend hours on end practicing it to perfection with your teammates and then do it.... I guess it can be done. IMHO, "enableing" bumpdrafting in thos pacth is one of the no so bright things Papy have done with N2002... it's like telling your kid not to touch the hot stove. -- ed_ "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:1QWy8.244983$[email hidden]... > Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it if > it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the > lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... > > IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very > hazardous > > and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" > > imho.. :-) > > > > -- > > ed_ > > > > "Mike Grandy" said: > > > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting > > I've > > > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at > > the > > > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over > > correct, > > > which is why most people wreck. > > > > > > > > > > >

I see no problem with it, just dont do it when side by side 5 deep, all you have to do is bump square when going striaght........ you got chicken feathers on your ass?? LOL "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LLXy8.7353$[email hidden]...

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| This is not *real NASCAR racing Mike, our limitations are far far greater | than when you get in the real world, hence my disliking of it.... It might | work for real - but it dont work well online. Now if you spend hours on end | practicing it to perfection with your teammates and then do it.... I guess | it can be done. | | IMHO, "enableing" bumpdrafting in thos pacth is one of the no so bright | things Papy have done with N2002... it's like telling your kid not to | touch the hot stove. | | -- | ed_ | | | "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding | news:1QWy8.244983$[email hidden]... | > Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it | if | > it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the | > lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. | > | > | > -- | > Mike Grandy | > www.precision-racing.com | > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... | > > IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very | > hazardous | > > and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" | > > imho.. :-) | > > | > > -- | > > ed_ | > > | > > "Mike Grandy" said: | > > > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting | > > I've | > > > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel | at | > > the | > > > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over | > > correct, | > > > which is why most people wreck. | > > > | > > | > > | > > | > | > | | |

That's exactly what I did, the track in front of me was completely clear and that's why I gave the guys in front of me a run for their money. Personnaly I would never try and run the risk of damaging my car after having driven for about two hours (or still having to drive two hours) just to make up some places in such a situation. So it's just common sense. "TimW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:59:10 GMT, "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > >confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > There are pro's and con's on both sides of the issue. Yesterday it > created a number of multicar crashes that could have been avoided, > simply because everyone thinks when cars are spinning in front of you, > this is your opportunity to make up some positions. This isn't the way > Nascar handles it, because lives are on the line. I would consider > "racing back to the yellow" ok when the track is clear and you are in > contention with another driver. Trying to thread your way through > spinning cars with the throttle full bore is just crazy though. As > long as we're all on the same page though, I'll live with what's > decided. > > > Tim Wortman > North American Simulation Series > www.nasscar.com

I didn't get any run on you because of me slowing down and then accelerating, really not. My reaction time was just a tiny bit better. And like I said the only reason I put my car there was to get your attention and try and influence your driving. But if you say that you must be single file, then I won't do it again. I'm not out to break rules, I do like the old men racing tricks of getting under your opponents skin. That to me, is a big part of motor racing. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QGWy8.244978$[email hidden]...

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> Well, single file means single file and most times when someone positions > themselves to the inside like that they are intending to try to get a run. > You did get a bit of a run but I blocked the hole so it really didn't > matter. I don't consider the run you got as jumping the start, but it was > close. Last lap, I would almost expect it. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did > positioning > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just

to > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, andI > > hoped to create some confusion. > > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than theguys

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> > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I > was > > just quicker. > > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of

an

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> > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last > restart > > I > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and > I'm > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I > think > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing > up > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > > racing > > > will be much better. > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Grandy > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is > the > > > time > > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > > follow > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > > would > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop > and > > > then > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not

happen > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes andracing > > > crazy. > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restartafter > > the > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, > you > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start ofmy > > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under cautiontoo > > and > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowedtoo

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> > but > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > > middle. > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions.

Congrats > > to > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > > given > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn'tyou

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> > need > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > > happened > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even > the > > > guys > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of

the

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> > > > yellows? > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for > dinner > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Robert Huggins > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump draftingI've > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel atthe > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't overcorrect, > which is why most people wreck. Yeah, I kinda figured that out. But it's just an habit I kept from back in those days. I also don't see the need to bump draft in a race when evidently the yellow will fly later in a couple of laps (-: -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: >IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very hazardous >and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" >imho.. :-) I was bump drafting(in practice) with Colin. Of course, he was *expecting* it. I don't know how much(if any) it increased our laps... For some reason, I didn't want to risk it during the actual race. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Mitch, I don't know if I can call it "stolen positions"... There were no rules set, we had people from different leagues, or no league, & those of us who haven't raced in any kind of structured environment for some time (2 1/2 yrs for me), if at all. Also, if a car is on or near the apron way b4 crossing the s/f line to get the yellow, I assume (wrongly, it seems), that the car was involved in the cause of the yellow & is headed to the pits, or damaged, etc... No reason to slow, possibly cause more problems just to get behind, right? I also slowed when a yellow came out early, & was promply passed by 3 cars, so by the 3rd or 4th caution (lap 10? hehe), I was racing back to the yellow with the rest. Unfortunately, some of those well in front of me were slowing b4 or just after the s/f line, & my 1st accident was hitting someone (don't remember who) who was already sideways on the apron in 1, AFTER taking the yellow. I was already slowed way down, but for a few moments there was mayhem & nowhere to go, & I went to the apron to avoid anyone & he slid in front of me...(sorry BTW). No damage, AFAIK. The cure for this is either to allow racing to the yellow, then insist that everyone slows gradually to the back stretch, & let the pace car by there, or have no racing back to the yellow. Either rule would probably end alot of problems, but creates one of its own. Who is to enforce the rules, & how? And do we even want to go there? This whole thing is just starting, & having growing pains, & in the heat of the moment some may be taking things a little too seriously. I'll go along with the consensus, whatever it may be... but I am doing this for FUN! ;) ps... sry to those at Homestead for causing 2 of the early yellows, just looped it twice in 3-4 cause I was really afraid of getting hit from behind going into 3 & went in too hard :( I settled down after that. Brian "Mitch Alatorre" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The racing back to the line caused no less than 15 other cars toget > wrecked. I was on the brakes whenever I saw smoke. If your ina turn > you will drop to the apron, which was good cause the guys thatdidn't > lift cuased mucho mayhem as they blew right past me at 185+right into > the smoke and dirt. I was more worried about getting hit in therear > than what was happening in front. I was also passed by quite afew guys > the first 2 cautions which kinda pissed me off cause both timesthe cars > that passed me could have easily given back the stolenpositions. It's > not like I was stopped on the track, I was being cautiousweaving through > the mess. After that I kust kept my foot in it and hoped for thebest. > > What happened to the "gentlemens" agreement? > > Mitch > ><snip>

I don't think it would be that hard to program. If at the drop of the green flag you are say in the 9th position, and you cross the line in 9th position, it should not be a black flag. The way it is know if someone pulls up beside you bore the start/finish you better make damn sure they take your position or you risk a black flag if you were to edge them out at the s/f. On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:21:24 -0600, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Well, fwiw, it'd be nigh impossible to program the code to recognize what >was happening in a case like that, IMO. > > Does stink though. > >-John > > >"Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:YbNy8.124160$[email hidden]... >> This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake, however >you want to label it... >> >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he >had >> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you >> | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line. >> | Black flag. >> | >> | Hope this helps. >> | >> | -John >> | >> | >> | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> | news:[email hidden]... >> | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get >black >> | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to >the >> | > outside before the line. >> | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but >I've >> | > yet to see it work that way. >> | > >> | > -John >> | > >> | > >> | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... >> | > > report that.. >> | > > >> | > > >> | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message >> | > news:[email hidden]... >> | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up >game >> | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE >the >> | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some >reason >> | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag >even >> | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was >in >> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the >> | > > | same thing happend to you. >> | > > | >> | > > | Brian Oster >> | > > | aka ZugZug1 >> | > > | >> | > > | >> | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> >wrote: >> | > > | >> | > > | > >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: >> | > > | >> >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's >a >> | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had >> | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from >L1, >> | > no >> | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt >in >> | the >> | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for >taking >> | you >> | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a >bogus >> | > BF >> | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried >to >> | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and >then I >> | > got >> | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid >the >> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same >> | > > | > >> | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at >> | least >> | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience >> | > > | > >> | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules >> | > > | > >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - >gotcha >> | > > | > >> | > > | > >> | > > | >Beers and cheers >> | > > | >(uncle) Goy >> | > > | > >> | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ >> | > > | > >> | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" >> | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- >> | > > | >> | > > | Brian Oster >> | > > | >> | > > >> | > > >> | > >> | > >> | >> | >> >> > >

Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

You could give half the field a BF by simply jumping the start and then slamming on the brakes before the S/F line. Brian Oster On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:50:34 GMT, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (112 lines)

>Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing left >is not. > >-- >Mike Grandy >www.precision-racing.com >"Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:YaNy8.246579$[email hidden]... >> I know passing to the right is illegal, but he said the guy passed him on >the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning >> he passed BACK a car that should have been behind him in the first place.. >I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong... >> >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get >black >> | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to >the >> | outside before the line. >> | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but >I've >> | yet to see it work that way. >> | >> | -John >> | >> | >> | "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> | news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... >> | > report that.. >> | > >> | > >> | > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message >> | news:[email hidden]... >> | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up >game >> | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE >the >> | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason >> | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even >> | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in >> | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the >> | > | same thing happend to you. >> | > | >> | > | Brian Oster >> | > | aka ZugZug1 >> | > | >> | > | >> | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> >wrote: >> | > | >> | > | > >> | > | > >> | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: >> | > | >> >> | > | > >> | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a >> | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts >> | > | > >> | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had >> | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from >L1, >> | no >> | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in >the >> | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? >> | > | > >> | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking >you >> | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a >bogus >> | BF >> | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings >> | > | > >> | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried >to >> | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then >I >> | got >> | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the >> | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same >> | > | > >> | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at >least >> | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience >> | > | > >> | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules >> | > | > >> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha >> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - >gotcha >> | > | > >> | > | > >> | > | >Beers and cheers >> | > | >(uncle) Goy >> | > | > >> | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ >> | > | > >> | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" >> | > | >--Groucho Marx-- >> | > | >> | > | Brian Oster >> | > | >> | > >> | > >> | >> | >> | >> >> > >

Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

Don't blame you. I rather get wrecked than a BF... especially a bogus one. Brian Oster On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:01:40 GMT, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Brian Oster wrote: >> >> How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game >> where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the >> start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason >> and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even >> though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in >> under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the >> same thing happend to you. > >Nope, was told to stay behind the #7 car, even though I was in the right >place according to the F2 screen > >Today it's no big deal, but last night....:-), in the heat of the >moment, after being patient and just keeping out of trouble in an >incident packed race, I was hopping mad, which explains my total brain >fade even though it doesn't excuse it > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.com > >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" >--Groucho Marx--

Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

The only problem with it on-line is, it only takes a small communications hick-up and next thing you know, the collision detection says that your front bumper is burried in the other car. Brian Oster On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:03:41 GMT, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it if >it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the >lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. > > >-- >Mike Grandy >www.precision-racing.com >"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... >> IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very >hazardous >> and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" >> imho.. :-) >> >> -- >> ed_ >> >> "Mike Grandy" said: >> > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting >> I've >> > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at >> the >> > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over >> correct, >> > which is why most people wreck. >> > >> >> >> > >

Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

And then find someplace else to race after doing so <G> -John "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> You could give half the field a BF by simply jumping the start and > then slamming on the brakes before the S/F line. > > Brian Oster > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:50:34 GMT, "Mike Grandy" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing

left

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> >is not. > > > >-- > >Mike Grandy > >www.precision-racing.com > >"Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:YaNy8.246579$[email hidden]... > >> I know passing to the right is illegal, but he said the guy passed him

on > >the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning > >> he passed BACK a car that should have been behind him in the firstplace..

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> >I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong... > >> > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get > >black > >> | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to > >the > >> | outside before the line. > >> | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but > >I've > >> | yet to see it work that way. > >> | > >> | -John > >> | > >> | > >> | "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> | news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > >> | > report that.. > >> | > > >> | > > >> | > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in

message > >> | news:[email hidden]... > >> | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up > >game > >> | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE > >the > >> | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for somereason > >> | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flageven > >> | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I wasin > >> | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering ifthe

Quoted text (15 lines)

> >> | > | same thing happend to you. > >> | > | > >> | > | Brian Oster > >> | > | aka ZugZug1 > >> | > | > >> | > | > >> | > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> > >wrote: > >> | > | > >> | > | > > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > >> | > | >> > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's

a > >> | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > >> | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the frontfrom > >L1, > >> | no > >> | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a haltin > >the > >> | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer fortaking

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >you > >> | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a > >bogus > >> | BF > >> | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and

tried > >to > >> | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race andthen > >I > >> | got > >> | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paidthe > >> | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > >> | > | > > >> | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I hadat

Quoted text (31 lines)

> >least > >> | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > >> | > | > > >> | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > >> | > | > > >> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > >> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - > >gotcha > >> | > | > > >> | > | > > >> | > | >Beers and cheers > >> | > | >(uncle) Goy > >> | > | > > >> | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > >> | > | > > >> | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > >> | > | >--Groucho Marx-- > >> | > | > >> | > | Brian Oster > >> | > | > >> | > > >> | > > >> | > >> | > >> | > >> > >> > > > > > > Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

That's true. Send me a clip of that if you can, be interesting to see. Do you know, was this guy in reality actually listed behind you in the running order ? I.e., are you sure he wasn't, say eigth, a spot ahead of you, but was laying back at the restart for whatever reason, blew by you, etc. ? In this case, the bf makes sense; you passed for position before the line, to the inside. -John "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I don't think it would be that hard to program. If at the drop of the > green flag you are say in the 9th position, and you cross the line in > 9th position, it should not be a black flag. The way it is know if > someone pulls up beside you bore the start/finish you better make damn > sure they take your position or you risk a black flag if you were to > edge them out at the s/f. > > > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:21:24 -0600, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Well, fwiw, it'd be nigh impossible to program the code to recognize

what

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >was happening in a case like that, IMO. > > > > Does stink though. > > > >-John > > > > > >"Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:YbNy8.124160$[email hidden]... > >> This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake,

however > >you want to label it... > >> > >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality),he > >had > >> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, whenyou > >> | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before theline.

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >> | Black flag. > >> | > >> | Hope this helps. > >> | > >> | -John > >> | > >> | > >> | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> | news:[email hidden]... > >> | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you

get > >black > >> | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you wantto > >the > >> | > outside before the line. > >> | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration,but

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >I've > >> | > yet to see it work that way. > >> | > > >> | > -John > >> | > > >> | > > >> | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... > >> | > > report that.. > >> | > > > >> | > > > >> | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in

message > >> | > news:[email hidden]... > >> | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in apick-up > >game > >> | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outsideBEFORE > >the > >> | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some > >reason > >> | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag > >even > >> | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position Iwas > >in > >> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering ifthe

Quoted text (15 lines)

> >> | > > | same thing happend to you. > >> | > > | > >> | > > | Brian Oster > >> | > > | aka ZugZug1 > >> | > > | > >> | > > | > >> | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> > >wrote: > >> | > > | > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: > >> | > > | >> > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless

there's > >a > >> | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had > >> | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the frontfrom > >L1, > >> | > no > >> | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to ahalt

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >in > >> | the > >> | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for > >taking > >> | you > >> | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve

a > >bogus > >> | > BF > >> | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks andtried > >to > >> | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and > >then I > >> | > got > >> | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while,paid > >the > >> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I hadat

Quoted text (32 lines)

> >> | least > >> | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha > >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - > >gotcha > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >Beers and cheers > >> | > > | >(uncle) Goy > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > >> | > > | > > >> | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > >> | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- > >> | > > | > >> | > > | Brian Oster > >> | > > | > >> | > > > >> | > > > >> | > > >> | > > >> | > >> | > >> > >> > > > > > > Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

It was improved for AI drafting in the patch, not multiplayer. If you can't bumpdraft safely I would say don't do it. I guess it's a matter of preference. As I said, it is a part of real Nascar racing and we are simulation Nascar racing. You are right, it does take alot of practice. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LLXy8.7353$[email hidden]... > This is not *real NASCAR racing Mike, our limitations are far far greater > than when you get in the real world, hence my disliking of it.... It might > work for real - but it dont work well online. Now if you spend hours on end > practicing it to perfection with your teammates and then do it.... I guess > it can be done. > > IMHO, "enableing" bumpdrafting in thos pacth is one of the no so bright > things Papy have done with N2002... it's like telling your kid not to > touch the hot stove. > > -- > ed_ > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > news:1QWy8.244983$[email hidden]... > > Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it > if > > it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the > > lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. > > > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... > > > IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very > > hazardous > > > and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" > > > imho.. :-) > > > > > > -- > > > ed_ > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" said: > > > > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting > > > I've > > > > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel > at > > > the > > > > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over > > > correct, > > > > which is why most people wreck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

How ever you race is fine with me. I think Tim can vouch for my reaction time, even for an old man I don't miss much there. I wasn't so much accusing you of jumping the start as I have never raced you that I know of and was just protecting my line in case you had that idea. You don't have to worry about getting my attention, I'm well aware of whats going on even 5 cars back. As far as intimidation, you're wating your time. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5hYy8.405467$Lj7.17239220@Flipper... > > I didn't get any run on you because of me slowing down and then > accelerating, really not. My reaction time was just a tiny bit better. And > like I said the only reason I put my car there was to get your attention and > try and influence your driving. But if you say that you must be single file, > then I won't do it again. I'm not out to break rules, I do like the old men > racing tricks of getting under your opponents skin. That to me, is a big > part of motor racing. > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QGWy8.244978$[email hidden]... > > Well, single file means single file and most times when someone positions > > themselves to the inside like that they are intending to try to get a run. > > You did get a bit of a run but I blocked the hole so it really didn't > > matter. I don't consider the run you got as jumping the start, but it was > > close. Last lap, I would almost expect it. > > > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > > > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did > > positioning > > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the > > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the > > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just > to > > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in > > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and > I > > > hoped to create some confusion. > > > > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the > guys > > > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I > > was > > > just quicker. > > > > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of > > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of > an > > > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last > > restart > > > I > > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and > > I'm > > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I > > think > > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing > > up > > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the > > > racing > > > > will be much better. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mike Grandy > > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is > > the > > > > time > > > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and > > > > follow > > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It > > > would > > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop > > and > > > > then > > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not > happen > > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and > racing > > > > crazy. > > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart > after > > > the > > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a > > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, > > you > > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of > my > > > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution > too > > > and > > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed > too > > > but > > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an > > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the > > > middle. > > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. > Congrats > > > to > > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have > > > given > > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't > you > > > need > > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have > > > > happened > > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even > > the > > > > guys > > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of > the > > > > > yellows? > > > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for > > dinner > > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Robert Huggins > > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I agree with that Frank. I don't think I bumpdrafted at all anyways, but you can bet if we broke away I would have. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UyZy8.1632$[email hidden]... > >"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote > > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting > I've > > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at > the > > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over > correct, > > which is why most people wreck. > > > Yeah, I kinda figured that out. But it's just an habit I kept from back in > those days. I also don't see the need to bump draft in a race when > evidently the yellow will fly later in a couple of laps (-: > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

You definately need to know who you're bumpdrafting with. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]>, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very hazardous > >and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" > >imho.. :-) > > I was bump drafting(in practice) with Colin. Of course, he was *expecting* it. > I don't know how much(if any) it increased our laps... For some reason, I > didn't want to risk it during the actual race. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I understand, and if I car was warping slightly that could happen. Like I said, you really have to know when and how. Those are things that have to be taken into consideration. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The only problem with it on-line is, it only takes a small > communications hick-up and next thing you know, the collision > detection says that your front bumper is burried in the other car. > > Brian Oster > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:03:41 GMT, "Mike Grandy" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Bump drafting is part of real NASCAR racing and I see no problem with it if > >it's done properly. It serves a purpose especially in a breakaway from the > >lead. In a tight pack it is not a good idea. > > > > > >-- > >Mike Grandy > >www.precision-racing.com > >"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:DLVy8.7449$[email hidden]... > >> IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very > >hazardous > >> and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed" > >> imho.. :-) > >> > >> -- > >> ed_ > >> > >> "Mike Grandy" said: > >> > This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting > >> I've > >> > found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at > >> the > >> > exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over > >> correct, > >> > which is why most people wreck. > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

Well Mike, to be honest I did influence you a bit. Just watch the space between you and the #328 car on the restart. Quite a gap for a one lap shootout. So by doing it, I indirectly threw away a shot at the lead. As for your reaction time, watching the replay I can now also vouch there's nothing wrong with it. Next time I'll be nicely formed up, I've rather little knowledge of Nascar rules (both written as non-written), but I'll adapt, no problem. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gIbz8.253457$[email hidden]... > How ever you race is fine with me. I think Tim can vouch for my reaction > time, even for an old man I don't miss much there. I wasn't so muchaccusing

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> you of jumping the start as I have never raced you that I know of and was > just protecting my line in case you had that idea. You don't have to worry > about getting my attention, I'm well aware of whats going on even 5 cars > back. As far as intimidation, you're wating your time. (-: > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5hYy8.405467$Lj7.17239220@Flipper... > > > > I didn't get any run on you because of me slowing down and then > > accelerating, really not. My reaction time was just a tiny bit better.

And

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> > like I said the only reason I put my car there was to get your attention > and > > try and influence your driving. But if you say that you must be single > file, > > then I won't do it again. I'm not out to break rules, I do like the old > men > > racing tricks of getting under your opponents skin. That to me, is a big > > part of motor racing. > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:QGWy8.244978$[email hidden]... > > > Well, single file means single file and most times when someone > positions > > > themselves to the inside like that they are intending to try to get a > run. > > > You did get a bit of a run but I blocked the hole so it really didn't > > > matter. I don't consider the run you got as jumping the start, but it > was > > > close. Last lap, I would almost expect it. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Grandy > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... > > > > > > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did > > > positioning > > > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all > the > > > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before > the > > > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was

just > > to > > > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the otherguys

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> in > > > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, > and > > I > > > > hoped to create some confusion. > > > > > > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than

the > > guys > > > > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys infront. > I > > > was > > > > just quicker. > > > > > > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates alot

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> of > > > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... > > > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit > of > > an > > > > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last > > > restart > > > > I > > > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one > and > > > I'm > > > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him.

I

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> > > think > > > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good > racing > > > up > > > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and > the > > > > racing > > > > > will be much better. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Mike Grandy > > > > > www.precision-racing.com > > > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap > is > > > the > > > > > time > > > > > > to let it all hang out. > > > > > > > > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft > and > > > > > follow > > > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. > It > > > > would > > > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit > stop > > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not > > happen > > > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and > > racing > > > > > crazy. > > > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart > > after > > > > the > > > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass

in > a > > > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that > maneuver, > > > you > > > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the startof > > my > > > > > > confusion about passing under caution. > > > > > > > > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed undercaution > > too > > > > and > > > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so Islowed > > too > > > > but > > > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involvedin > an > > > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car inthe

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> > > > middle. > > > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. > > Congrats > > > > to > > > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would > have > > > > given > > > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way?

Didn't > > you > > > > need > > > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps wouldhave > > > > > happened > > > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, > even > > > the > > > > > guys > > > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel becauseof > > the > > > > > > yellows? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been beggingfor

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> > > dinner > > > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Robert Huggins > > > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies #328. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Mike Grandy wrote:

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> > How ever you race is fine with me. I think Tim can vouch for my reaction > time, even for an old man I don't miss much there. I wasn't so much accusing > you of jumping the start as I have never raced you that I know of and was > just protecting my line in case you had that idea. You don't have to worry > about getting my attention, I'm well aware of whats going on even 5 cars > back. As far as intimidation, you're wating your time. (-:

Yeah, but in person I'm sure he could intimidate you, you little wuss :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Lol, you should know. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Mike Grandy wrote: > > > > How ever you race is fine with me. I think Tim can vouch for my reaction > > time, even for an old man I don't miss much there. I wasn't so much accusing > > you of jumping the start as I have never raced you that I know of and was > > just protecting my line in case you had that idea. You don't have to worry > > about getting my attention, I'm well aware of whats going on even 5 cars > > back. As far as intimidation, you're wating your time. (-: > > Yeah, but in person I'm sure he could intimidate you, you little wuss > > :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Mike Grandy wrote: > > Lol, you should know. (-: Ooops, got you mixed up with Tim Doyle....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

You mean lil Abner. (-: Guess you'd have to know who he is. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Mike Grandy wrote: > > > > Lol, you should know. (-: > > Ooops, got you mixed up with Tim Doyle....:-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Mike Grandy wrote: > > You mean lil Abner. (-: Guess you'd have to know who he is. Sorry, don't know who that is....TV character ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

BOOOOO!!!! LMAO! "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gIbz8.253457$[email hidden]...

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| How ever you race is fine with me. I think Tim can vouch for my reaction | time, even for an old man I don't miss much there. I wasn't so much accusing | you of jumping the start as I have never raced you that I know of and was | just protecting my line in case you had that idea. You don't have to worry | about getting my attention, I'm well aware of whats going on even 5 cars | back. As far as intimidation, you're wating your time. (-: | | -- | Mike Grandy | www.precision-racing.com | "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:5hYy8.405467$Lj7.17239220@Flipper... | > | > I didn't get any run on you because of me slowing down and then | > accelerating, really not. My reaction time was just a tiny bit better. And | > like I said the only reason I put my car there was to get your attention | and | > try and influence your driving. But if you say that you must be single | file, | > then I won't do it again. I'm not out to break rules, I do like the old | men | > racing tricks of getting under your opponents skin. That to me, is a big | > part of motor racing. | > | > | > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:QGWy8.244978$[email hidden]... | > > Well, single file means single file and most times when someone | positions | > > themselves to the inside like that they are intending to try to get a | run. | > > You did get a bit of a run but I blocked the hole so it really didn't | > > matter. I don't consider the run you got as jumping the start, but it | was | > > close. Last lap, I would almost expect it. | > > | > > | > > -- | > > Mike Grandy | > > www.precision-racing.com | > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > news:OeTy8.397408$Lj7.16902760@Flipper... | > > > | > > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did | > > positioning | > > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all | the | > > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before | the | > > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just | > to | > > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys | in | > > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, | and | > I | > > > hoped to create some confusion. | > > > | > > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the | > guys | > > > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. | I | > > was | > > > just quicker. | > > > | > > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot | of | > > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it. | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > > news:7kSy8.17305$[email hidden]... | > > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit | of | > an | > > > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last | > > restart | > > > I | > > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one | and | > > I'm | > > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I | > > think | > > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good | racing | > > up | > > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and | the | > > > racing | > > > > will be much better. | > > > > | > > > > -- | > > > > Mike Grandy | > > > > www.precision-racing.com | > > > > "Robert Huggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > > > news:glOy8.79867$[email hidden]... | > > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap | is | > > the | > > > > time | > > > > > to let it all hang out. | > > > > > | > > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft | and | > > > > follow | > > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. | It | > > > would | > > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit | stop | > > and | > > > > then | > > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not | > happen | > > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and | > racing | > > > > crazy. | > > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart | > after | > > > the | > > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in | a | > > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that | maneuver, | > > you | > > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of | > my | > > > > > confusion about passing under caution. | > > > > > | > > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution | > too | > > > and | > > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed | > too | > > > but | > > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in | an | > > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the | > > > middle. | > > > > > My apologies for my transgressions. | > > > > > | > > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for hanging on to win after the cautions. | > Congrats | > > > to | > > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would | have | > > > given | > > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't | > you | > > > need | > > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have | > > > > happened | > > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, | even | > > the | > > > > guys | > > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of | > the | > > > > > yellows? | > > > > > | > > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for | > > dinner | > > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be. | > > > > > | > > > > > -- | > > > > > Robert Huggins | > > > > > [email hidden] | > > > > > | > > > > > "Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > > > > news:EbGy8.378384$Lj7.16208223@Flipper... | > > > > > > | > > > > > > My apologies #328. | > > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > > | > > > > | > > > > | > > > | > > > | > > | > > | > | > | > | > | | |

wink wink "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zXdz8.254261$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> You mean lil Abner. (-: Guess you'd have to know who he is. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Mike Grandy wrote: > > > > > > Lol, you should know. (-: > > > > Ooops, got you mixed up with Tim Doyle....:-) > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

I didn't save the replay. Got upset, took my ball and went home before I thought to save. It could have been that he was further up in the re-start order but it looked like there was a full field in front of me (I was pretty far up in the re-start order). It still wouldn't make sense for him to slam on the brakes before the S/F line and even so I still should not get a B/F because some guy can't get in the right position on a restart. If he was supposed to be ahead of me then it would be pretty hard to program. It then becomes one of those judgement calls which is probably pretty damn hard to program. Kinda like deciding who is at fault for an incident. Brian Oster On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:59:38 -0600, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> That's true. Send me a clip of that if you can, be interesting to see. >Do you know, was this guy in reality actually listed behind you in the >running order ? I.e., are you sure he wasn't, say eigth, a spot ahead of >you, but was laying back at the restart for whatever reason, blew by you, >etc. ? > > In this case, the bf makes sense; you passed for position before the line, >to the inside. > >-John > > > >"Brian Oster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I don't think it would be that hard to program. If at the drop of the >> green flag you are say in the 9th position, and you cross the line in >> 9th position, it should not be a black flag. The way it is know if >> someone pulls up beside you bore the start/finish you better make damn >> sure they take your position or you risk a black flag if you were to >> edge them out at the s/f. >> >> >> >> On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:21:24 -0600, "John Pancoast" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> > Well, fwiw, it'd be nigh impossible to program the code to recognize >what >> >was happening in a case like that, IMO. >> > >> > Does stink though. >> > >> >-John >> > >> > >> >"Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >news:YbNy8.124160$[email hidden]... >> >> This makes more sense, but its still a bug or more of a mistake, >however >> >you want to label it... >> >> >> >> "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >news:[email hidden]... >> >> | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), >he >> >had >> >> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when >you >> >> | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the >line. >> >> | Black flag. >> >> | >> >> | Hope this helps. >> >> | >> >> | -John >> >> | >> >> | >> >> | "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >> | news:[email hidden]... >> >> | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you >get >> >black >> >> | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want >to >> >the >> >> | > outside before the line. >> >> | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, >but >> >I've >> >> | > yet to see it work that way. >> >> | > >> >> | > -John >> >> | > >> >> | > >> >> | > "Blake" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >> | > news:LNJy8.44007$[email hidden]... >> >> | > > report that.. >> >> | > > >> >> | > > >> >> | > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in >message >> >> | > news:[email hidden]... >> >> | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a >pick-up >> >game >> >> | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside >BEFORE >> >the >> >> | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some >> >reason >> >> | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag >> >even >> >> | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I >was >> >in >> >> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if >the >> >> | > > | same thing happend to you. >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > | Brian Oster >> >> | > > | aka ZugZug1 >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > | On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:23:28 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> >> >wrote: >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Ed Solheim wrote: >> >> | > > | >> >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless >there's >> >a >> >> | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had >> >> | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front >from >> >L1, >> >> | > no >> >> | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a >halt >> >in >> >> | the >> >> | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ? >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for >> >taking >> >> | you >> >> | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve >a >> >bogus >> >> | > BF >> >> | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and >tried >> >to >> >> | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and >> >then I >> >> | > got >> >> | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, >paid >> >the >> >> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had >at >> >> | least >> >> | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha >> >> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" - >> >gotcha >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >Beers and cheers >> >> | > > | >(uncle) Goy >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ >> >> | > > | > >> >> | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels" >> >> | > > | >--Groucho Marx-- >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > | Brian Oster >> >> | > > | >> >> | > > >> >> | > > >> >> | > >> >> | > >> >> | >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply. > >

Brian Oster Remove NOSPAM from my email to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Brian Oster) writes: >You could give half the field a BF by simply jumping the start and >then slamming on the brakes before the S/F line. That's how I got the flag at the Pocono race. Everybody in front stopped. :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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