Odd?

It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip files? What the heck is that for? I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal contract. This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? Tom

Quoted text (11 lines)

> This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > Tom > >

I think its because they don't want a version hanging around too long. A perfect example in N4 and NR2002. How many people bought NR2002 for the new tracks that wouldn't have if they had add-ons for N4. GPL is another example of this, only there is no real replacemenr title. Papy isn't making much, if any, money of the $8 copies that all the new fans of GPL are buying today. If there was a GPL2 you would have to question how much this support of the original would hurt the new one. MadDAWG

You're thinking to much; get off the can <VBG> -John "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mipfiles?

Quoted text (20 lines)

> What the heck is that for? > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > contract. > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > Tom > >

You're thinking to much; get off the can <VBG> -John

To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's game code and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probably to stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY's code to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's intellectual property, come on Tom! So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the net? "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mipfiles?

Quoted text (20 lines)

> What the heck is that for? > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > contract. > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > Tom > >

Wayne Bradley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's gamecode > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probablyto > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY'scode

Quoted text (8 lines)

> to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the

net? > > > > Wow Tom! I didn't know you were starting your own sideline. Do you guys need any VC? I just got a big account closed and was a step closer to retiring at age 40, but if you are going to start a sim-code-altering-and-marketing business, I'd invest...hehe.

In article <tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02>, [email hidden] says... > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? Haven't got NR2002, but isn't there an inbuilt paintshop? I completely understand what 3rd parties do bring to the simulation table, but if you were to look closely at the licence agreement that you either open or agree to when you install your software, it actually prohibits what most of those 3rd parties are attempting to do. Perhaps this is a licencing agreement between Papy and Nascar to prohibit the ability for 3rd parties to modify the software in any way bar the inbuilt tools provided. I actually purchased F12001 because of the mods coming out for it only to find out that F12001 stood on its own two feet and I only race the F1 cars in it anyway. ISI appear to be very forthcoming with information to make mods, etc. However, I'd hate to see this sort of co-operation spell the end of ISI's licence. I do recall some waves made regarding a Heat CART mod not so long ago? Cheers, Rod.

MadDAWG <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over asubstantial > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stalesims,

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > Tom > > > > > > I think its because they don't want a version hanging around too long. A > perfect example in N4 and NR2002. How many people bought NR2002 for the

new > tracks that wouldn't have if they had add-ons for N4. GPL is anotherexample > of this, only there is no real replacemenr title. Papy isn't making much,if > any, money of the $8 copies that all the new fans of GPL are buying today. > If there was a GPL2 you would have to question how much this support ofthe

Quoted text (7 lines)

> original would hurt the new one. > > > > MadDAWG > >

I would have (and did) buy NR2002 because of the updated physics AND the new tracks (and the ability to race licensed cars online without having to 'paint' them) and, well you get the point. The add-on tracks for N4 (aside from Zen and the RC with invisible walls, I forget the name) were remakes of mainly Las Vegas. There are certain aspects of the sim that can't be 'faked' like the physics IMO. Had 2002 simply added tracks, then yes, your statement is spot on, I probably would not have bought it due to that alone. I think they have done this encrypted thing due to legal issues. They probably did not want any lawsuits over someone's kid racing in a league where the graphics at a track had been altered to included a billboard for Maxim or Playboy and to keep the companies whose products or tracks they did have to get licenses for, happy. I dunno, our society has become way to litigious so that would be my guess.

"Rod Prince" . I do recall some waves made regarding > a Heat CART mod not so long ago? > > Cheers, > Rod. You are probably thinking of the IRL Heat mod, which is kinda like the CART mod except without the much more powerful cars, turbos, Brazillian drivers, etc etc.. :) That got a Cease & Desist order because some un-named company has signed a contract with the IRL to produce an IRL sim....go figure... Back to Tom's question. I will bet a-lot of cash that the SIERRA/HAVAS/VIVENDI lawyers are as much to blame as any design decision or licensing agreement. To limit product liability, you encrypt everything. Pooh...and I'll say it again...Pooh. dave henrie

I would like to know the story behind this one :) "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's gamecode > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probablyto > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY'scode

Quoted text (8 lines)

> to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the

net?

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > files? > > What the heck is that for? > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard

to > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter thegraphics? > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > contract. > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over asubstantial > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stalesims,

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > Tom > > > > > >

ME TOO, ME TOO, ME TOO !!! OH, someone PLEASE do tell!! :-) -- ed_ "Cliff Roman" said: > I would like to know the story behind this one :) > > > "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's game > code > > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probably > to > > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY's > code > > to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the > net? > > >

Wooooooaaaahhh!!! Where did *that* come from??? -- ed_ "Wayne Bradley" mutted: > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's game code > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probably to > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY's code > to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the net?

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mipfiles? > What the heck is that for? I actually had no idea at all they did this.... Do they?? If so.. please do tell... -- ed_ (Picking up N2002 in about 10hrs time.)

He shoots. He Scores!!!! Goal scored by Wayne Bradley, unassisted. Time of goal, perfect. Gavel "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's gamecode > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probablyto > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY'scode

Quoted text (8 lines)

> to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the

net?

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > files? > > What the heck is that for? > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard

to > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter thegraphics? > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > contract. > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over asubstantial > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stalesims,

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > Tom > > > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mipfiles?

Quoted text (19 lines)

> What the heck is that for? > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > contract. > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > Tom >

To keep the code drum-tight and to allow Papyrus to control where and how their software is used. To make sure users honour the EULA (the terms of which they are free to define). To have a sound business plan whereby Papy can actually sell a new product each year or two, rather than perhaps getting a nominal licensing fee from users who have altered the code or who are using it for their own purposes or profit. If the community editors stretch the life of N2002 with new graphics, then instead of making a 20% profit on a $50 version of N2004, Papyrus / Sierra could perhaps make a 10% license fee on the cost of the user-created upgrade, which sells for... um... gee, it's free. Not good for the bottom line. If Papyrus remodels the new track layouts at, say, Sears Point, then perhaps they create a convincing argument for users of all types (perhaps even professional racers or track management) to buy the new software at $50 a pop. If someone else can hack their code, then there is nothing in it for Papyrus. If the party which hacks the code goes on to use the code for their profit, then hopefully they pay something back to Papyrus, as otherwise they are violating the EULA. I've certainly benefited from the updates to GPL and GP3, but after spending the last few years getting up to my elbows of the financial planning for my own research group, I really start to get a feel for how important the business side is. Papy has to sell games to keep people at their desks and to keep paying the paycheques. Software packages with an unlimited life don't help much with the bottom line. Stephen

No you wouldn't, it's a long one :) Don Burnette "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I would like to know the story behind this one :) > > > "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's game > code > > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also

probably > to > > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY's > code > > to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the betterof > > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of theirsoftware.

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > > > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the > net? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard

to > > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > > files? > > > What the heck is that for? > > > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy withregard > to > > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to"extraordinary

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the > graphics? > > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > > contract. > > > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a > substantial > > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale > sims, > > > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by

sim

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Don Burnette <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%5gr8.9003$[email hidden]... > No you wouldn't, it's a long one :) Amen.. let the sleeping dogs lie. We have been down this road too many times before. Mikkel

Tim, ease up, I maen .mip files were cracked along time ago and most game developers encrypt files into another to save space or use their own file format. Since its cracked, whata the problem... Papy sims seem to be some of the easier ones to hack. Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mipfiles?

Quoted text (20 lines)

> What the heck is that for? > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard to > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the graphics? > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > contract. > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a substantial > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale sims, > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > Tom > >

*covers eyes* -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%5gr8.9003$[email hidden]... > No you wouldn't, it's a long one :) > > Don Burnette > > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I would like to know the story behind this one :) > > > > > > "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > > > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's game > > code > > > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also > probably > > to > > > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY's > > code > > > to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better > of > > > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > > > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > > > > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their > software. > > > > > > > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the > > net? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard > to > > > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > > > files? > > > > What the heck is that for? > > > > > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with > regard > > to > > > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to > "extraordinary > > > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter the > > graphics? > > > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > > > contract. > > > > > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over a > > substantial > > > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stale > > sims, > > > > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by > sim > > > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > *covers eyes* Chicken Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Quoted text (7 lines)

>> To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to >> alter PAPY's game code and then claim that you >> (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. > I'm sure that was an unexpected reply <g> > > Achim

Yes, I think I missed Tom's devious master plan too <g> Tony

Hi Tom, that encryption seems to be pretty moderate though - even the N2002 mips are already being modified - just think of Frank Amend's online cars. Achim

I'm sure that was an unexpected reply <g> Achim "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's gamecode > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probablyto > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY'scode

Quoted text (8 lines)

> to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the

net?

Tony Rickard wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > >> To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to > >> alter PAPY's game code and then claim that you > >> (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. > > > I'm sure that was an unexpected reply <g> > > > > Achim > > Yes, I think I missed Tom's devious master plan too <g>

Don't know about devious or master, but he had plans to do just that, according to what he has previously stated in this NG anyways, whether or not he had Papy's permission to use their software for said plans is only known to a few Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Goy Larsen" wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > >> To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to > > >> alter PAPY's game code and then claim that you > > >> (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. > > > > > I'm sure that was an unexpected reply <g> > > > > > > Achim > > > > Yes, I think I missed Tom's devious master plan too <g> > > Don't know about devious or master, but he had plans to do just that, > according to what he has previously stated in this NG anyways, whether > or not he had Papy's permission to use their software for said plans is > only known to a few

In which case, Goy, I really did miss it, which I guess explains why I didn't understand the response to Tom. I think I'll duck out of this thread as I clearly haven't a clue what is going on :-) Tony

LOL! "Goy Larsen" said: > > Chicken -- ed_

I create enough of my own controversy, I don't need to participate in others. LOL -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Tony Rickard wrote: > > > > >> To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to > > >> alter PAPY's game code and then claim that you > > >> (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. > > > > > I'm sure that was an unexpected reply <g> > > > > > > Achim > > > > Yes, I think I missed Tom's devious master plan too <g> > > Don't know about devious or master, but he had plans to do just that, > according to what he has previously stated in this NG anyways, whether > or not he had Papy's permission to use their software for said plans is > only known to a few > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > I create enough of my own controversy, I don't need to participate in > others. LOL You've been to one of those "be nice to others" courses haven't you, never thought I'd see fearless Husted of the Pennsylvania Posse turn down the chance to fuel some fires.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Tony Rickard wrote: > > In which case, Goy, I really did miss it, which I guess explains why I didn't > understand the response to Tom. > > I think I'll duck out of this thread as I clearly haven't a clue what is going > on :-) Well, it probably won't evolve much further anyways, most of the people who "knows" what happened back then are too tired of the whole story to bother much with it anymore, let's just say that there are different opinions on what happened back then, I have mine...:-) Gavel and Wayne are regulars from "Jacob's NG", which is where all the people from TEN migrated when they shut down, Tom is less than popular with a lot of those guys, in general for being Tom :-), but particularly for what people believe to know happened between him and Tim McArthur and the whole Sears Point debacle, they just like to remind Tom that they're still around in cases like this :-) As Tim and Tom :-) are the only ones that know what *really* happened, as is common in cases like this, the rest of us are left to speculate and draw our own conclusions, since I consider Tim McArthur to be a friend, as well as a member of "The Pits, I'm not handing out prizes for guessing which side of the fence I'm on :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

He has been darned nice the past few months, hasn't he? Gavel "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > I create enough of my own controversy, I don't need to participate in > > others. LOL > > You've been to one of those "be nice to others" courses haven't you, > never thought I'd see fearless Husted of the Pennsylvania Posse turn > down the chance to fuel some fires.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Gavel wrote: > > He has been darned nice the past few months, hasn't he? > Gavel Nice is a relative rather than an absolute term, so I agree.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > I'm pretty busy these days, so I don't have the time to argue / instigate at > the "high level" I'm accustomed to . So I have to pick and choose my > "battles" more appropriately! <VBG> <translation> My wife no longer allows me to waste time in front of the computer arguing with people on various news groups over insignificant matters Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

ROFL ;) -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Gavel wrote: > > > > He has been darned nice the past few months, hasn't he? > > Gavel > > Nice is a relative rather than an absolute term, so I agree.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

I'm pretty busy these days, so I don't have the time to argue / instigate at the "high level" I'm accustomed to . So I have to pick and choose my "battles" more appropriately! <VBG> -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > I create enough of my own controversy, I don't need to participate in > > others. LOL > > You've been to one of those "be nice to others" courses haven't you, > never thought I'd see fearless Husted of the Pennsylvania Posse turn > down the chance to fuel some fires.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > ROFL The new softer and more mellow Husted eh, turn the other cheek and so forth, boy are you ever whipped..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

ROFL -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > I'm pretty busy these days, so I don't have the time to argue / instigate at > > the "high level" I'm accustomed to . So I have to pick and choose my > > "battles" more appropriately! <VBG> > > <translation> > > My wife no longer allows me to waste time in front of the computer > arguing with people on various news groups over insignificant matters > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (12 lines)

>"Scott B. Husted" wrote: >> >> I'm pretty busy these days, so I don't have the time to argue / instigate >at >> the "high level" I'm accustomed to . So I have to pick and choose my >> "battles" more appropriately! <VBG> > ><translation> > >My wife no longer allows me to waste time in front of the computer >arguing with people on various news groups over insignificant matters >

Ouch...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I've been married for 5 years, I'm past being just whipped <VBG> Although the more time I spend online, the less time I'm bothering her I suppose. ROFL -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > ROFL > > The new softer and more mellow Husted eh, turn the other cheek and so > forth, boy are you ever whipped..... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Wayne... You post is offensive to me and has no basis in fact. I'm not going to hash this out all over again because it was done nearly 3 years ago. I suggest you do a Google search and find the facts. Then, an apology would be in order. For the rest of you who were not around three years ago: Mr. Bradley is referring to "Bulldozer." This was a project we created, assisting Sears Point Raceway in re-designing the Winston Cup Chute - using the N3 racing simulation of the track. The configuration of that part of the track today is a result of this work which spread over an 18-month period....a "story" that is well-documented. Papyrus management was informed (and to some extent, involved) every step of the way. In the "eleventh hour" all of the Papyrus managers we were working with were let go (unrelated to Bulldozer). When the dust settled, those who were left had either no knowledge of Bulldozer, or no inclination to follow through with what had been started. We were directed to contact and negotiate directly with Havas. We did that, but the talks did not bear fruit. We offered to pay Papyrus on several occasions, each time it was turned down. Tim McArthur, an ex-Papy employee, was involved with us on this project in the early development, but Tim had nothing to do with the inception or idea of Bulldozer. Tim provided some programming work on the track configs...nothing else. Very early in the project (about 6 months into it), we let Tim go. This was for personal reasons and as I said back three years ago, under no circumstances will I ever reveal publicly what they were. Period. As can be the case, Tim got vindictive and made some pretty outlandish claims over the next several months.....none of which were ever proven, nor were they even reasonable. An article on "Operation Sports" was written about the entire "Tim McArthur" affair, Tim was invited to speak and when he was told that any claims he made would be required to have some kind of supporting evidence....he "no-showed" the interview. As far as I know, the only statements he has ever made are on newsgroups such as this, and these venues are notorious for statements lacking proof or supportive information. Mr. Bradley's post above is a classic example. Under no circumstances did Pabst-Racing, Searsgroup (the work group formed for the Sears Bulldozer project) or any individual connected with either, ever get paid one dime by anyone, let alone Sears or SMI, for any of this work. Its pretty clear that Havas would have sued us if that had been the case. They were satisfied that it was not. Tom Footnote: There was nothing "unique" about Papyrus' N3 sim that was used for this Bulldozer "experiment." We could have used any racing simulation, even one that did not already include a version of Sears Point. We used N3 because the management at Papyrus we contacted were willing to work with us if we proved the concept. Unfortunately, they were not around when we did. "Wayne Bradley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8ihki$2ej$[email hidden]... > To stop assholes like you from hiring someone else to alter PAPY's gamecode > and then claim that you (Tom Pabst) developed it, etc. And also probablyto > stop people like you from starting a side business using mostly PAPY'scode

Quoted text (8 lines)

> to make money. It is one thing to alter graphics/tracks for the better of > the sim community, but to start a company using mainly someone else's > intellectual property, come on Tom! > > So in short.... To stop Tom Pabst from making money off of their software. > > > Are you truly this stupid Tom or do you just act that way while on the

net?

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > files? > > What the heck is that for? > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard

to > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter thegraphics? > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > contract. > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over asubstantial > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stalesims,

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > Tom > > > > > >

That was the longest " I'm not gonna hash this out all over again" that I've ever seen. LOL. Go to the penalty box: 2 minutes for a perilepsis. Gavel . "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vP8s8.191286$Yv2.65877@rwcrnsc54...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Wayne... > > You post is offensive to me and has no basis in fact. > > I'm not going to hash this out all over again because it was done nearly 3 > years ago. I suggest you do a Google search and find the facts. Then, an > apology would be in order. >

( snip, hack..hack snip)

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > I've been married for 5 years, I'm past being just whipped <VBG> > > Although the more time I spend online, the less time I'm bothering her I > suppose. ROFL This is true, didn't think of it like that, ok, so maybe you have become a nice guy then Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

That is slanderous! ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > This is true, didn't think of it like that, ok, so maybe you have become > a nice guy then > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > That is slanderous! ;) Well, it could have been worse, it could have come from TP :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

It would have been a longer post. <G> -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > That is slanderous! ;) > > Well, it could have been worse, it could have come from TP :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Gosh...I thought a paragraph summary (albeit...a long one) of something that took place over an 18 month period, with hundreds of posts on r.a.s......for the benefit of those not around at the time....was pretty short. TP "Gavel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> That was the longest " I'm not gonna hash this out all over again" that > I've ever seen. LOL. > > Go to the penalty box: 2 minutes for a perilepsis. > Gavel > > > > > . > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vP8s8.191286$Yv2.65877@rwcrnsc54... > > Wayne... > > > > You post is offensive to me and has no basis in fact. > > > > I'm not going to hash this out all over again because it was done nearly

3 > > years ago. I suggest you do a Google search and find the facts. Then,an > > apology would be in order. > > > ( snip, hack..hack snip) > >

Yes....I always "slander" in length.....don't like that "short" slandering....doesn't suit my style....lol.. TP "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HTBs8.26$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (28 lines)

> It would have been a longer post. <G> > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > > > That is slanderous! ;) > > > > Well, it could have been worse, it could have come from TP :-) > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > >

Dang....you caught me. TP lol..... "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> You're thinking to much; get off the can <VBG> > > -John > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tS%q8.213368$702.33304@sccrnsc02... > > It seems odd to me why Papyrus seems to take steps to make it so hard to > > alter/modify the graphics in their NASCAR series sims. Encrypted mip > files? > > What the heck is that for? > > > > I understand that "license restrictions" and Papyrus policy with regard

to > > not advertising alcohol and tobacco related products. But, does the > > language of those "licenses" say that Papyrus must go to "extraordinary > > steps" to prevent any "third party" form being able to alter thegraphics? > > I doubt it very seriously.....that would be an onerous term of a legal > > contract. > > > > This sim racing community has demonstrated many times, over asubstantial > > number of years now....the ability to breathe fresh life into stalesims,

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > and to make more interesting some of the "flat" graphics produced by sim > > developers restricted by "image and likeness" product licensing > > restrictions. It stimulates product sales, not retards them! > > > > So, why do you guys think Papyrus does this? > > > > Tom > > > > > >

ROFL - If you are going to do something, do it well! =) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:78Es8.25355$[email hidden]... > Yes....I always "slander" in length.....don't like that "short" > slandering....doesn't suit my style....lol.. > > TP > > > > "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:HTBs8.26$[email hidden]... > > It would have been a longer post. <G> > > > > -- > > Scott B. Husted > > PA-Scott > > ICQ# 4395450 > > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > > > > > That is slanderous! ;) > > > > > > Well, it could have been worse, it could have come from TP :-) > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > > > > >

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > ROFL - If you are going to do something, do it well! =) That's what I do, compared to Tom I substitute quantity with quality I'm working on refining the art of "one line slander", struggling a bit with the 80 character limit though Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > you mean, if it can't be said in a four letter word, it's not worth being > said? ;-)+ Basically.....yeah Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

you mean, if it can't be said in a four letter word, it's not worth being said? ;-)+ Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > That's what I do, compared to Tom I substitute quantity with quality > > I'm working on refining the art of "one line slander", struggling a bit > with the 80 character limit though...