A few notes about F1 today

Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see why JPM was penalised in the other. One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres for MS in Brazil. -- --------------- Steve Levett

"Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a84pip$plj4e$[email hidden]... > Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. > > Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see whyJPM

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> was penalised in the other. > > One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there > will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. > > The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. > Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car.

My biggest concern about this rule is the last race of the season. If I know I'm not gonna be penalized til next year, I may do something that will benefit myself or team without consequences. Is there a provision for the last race??? dave henrie > > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyresfor

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> MS in Brazil. > > -- > > --------------- > Steve Levett > > > >

I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that season. Just as they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. -- --------------- Steve Levett "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iTmp8.162497$[email hidden]... > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a84pip$plj4e$[email hidden]... > > Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. > > > > Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see why > JPM > > was penalised in the other. > > > > One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there > > will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. > > > > The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. > > Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. > > My biggest concern about this rule is the last race of the season. If I > know I'm not gonna be penalized til next year, I may do something that will > benefit myself or team without consequences. Is there a provision for the > last race??? > dave henrie > > > > > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres > for > > MS in Brazil. > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Steve Levett > > > > > > > > > >

Steve Levett wrote: > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that season. Just as > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. In other words, punishment at all ..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for the PPV TV, would they? -- --------------- Steve Levett "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that season. Just as > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS. David G Fisher "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8513b$puig2$[email hidden]... > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for thePPV

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> TV, would they? > > -- > > --------------- > Steve Levett > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that season. > Just as > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > >

Steve Levett wrote: > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for the PPV > TV, would they? Of course not, and without MS, Ferrari would be nowhere......Max and Bernie would never allow that to happen Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs continued preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing to do with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or the amount of fans that buy PPV TV. -- --------------- Steve Levett "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rbpp8.154512$[email hidden]... > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS. > > David G Fisher > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a8513b$puig2$[email hidden]... > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for the > PPV > > TV, would they? > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Steve Levett > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that season. > > Just as > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > > > > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > > > > > > >

> > Of course not, and without MS, Ferrari would be nowhere......Max and > Bernie would never allow that to happen > >Without him, F1 would be nowhere.

redTed wrote:

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> > > > > Of course not, and without MS, Ferrari would be nowhere......Max and > > Bernie would never allow that to happen > > > > > Without him, F1 would be nowhere.

Yes it would, they're just not brave enough to risk it, or rather, money talks Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Steve Levett wrote: > > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs continued > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing to do > with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or the > amount of fans that buy PPV TV. Actually, Ferrari has gotten preferential treatment for as about as long as there has been F1 racing, or sportscar racing for that matter, old man Enzo threatened to take his toys and go home on more than one occasion Anyone remember how we got refueling back in F1 even though nobody really wanted it there ? RedTed said that F1 wouldn't be anything without MS, he's wrong, F1 would easily survive without MS, Ferrari is the name they can't afford to lose, drivers come and go, but a brand name like Ferrari.... Hell, even I root for the Red, as opposed to Orange <barf>, cars when they run in the proper color and with a driver I don't despise Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Goy Larsen" <> Anyone remember how we got refueling back in F1 even though nobody > really wanted it there ? Watching Senna with a V10 fuel load pull Prost with his V12 extra baggage at every start.; Even though Prost often came to terms with Senna's Mclaren speed, his V12 Handicap early in the race often put the Ferrari too far behind to catch up....really liked those year...I could hear the real Red Ferraris go by with a totally different engine note than the rest of the pack.

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> > RedTed said that F1 wouldn't be anything without MS, he's wrong, F1 > would easily survive without MS, Ferrari is the name they can't afford > to lose, drivers come and go, but a brand name like Ferrari.... > > Hell, even I root for the Red, as opposed to Orange <barf>, cars when > they run in the proper color and with a driver I don't despise

Yup better Red than Marlboro orange. >dave henrie

> Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. Why? On the digital F1 channel it is only on screen when there are no displays up, and there are almost always time displays on screen for the current driver. Plus, you can only see it when there is a light background behind it (ie) not very often. I don't know what it is like on the normal channel though. > Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see why JPM > was penalised in the other. Because Eddie Irvine is pissed off at Ferrari. JPM was clearly at fault for the Malasia crash, in exactly the same way as DC was at fault at Silverstone last year. However much he shouts down his pit radio as he takes his drive thru penalty, he didn't give enough room on the inside for MS to physically turn his car in on the dustier inside of the track, and as JB showed against JPM later in the race, you can take the outer line thru turn 1 and be on the inside thru turn 2, a much tighter corner, and still lead the Grand Prix. JPM should know about there being more than one line through constant radius semi-tight turns coming from ChampCars and all. > One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there > will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. The FIA haven't figured the details yet. It is likely there will be a minimum number of laps in the practice sessions you have to do, or no engine de-tuning to save the engines for later. Plus, drivers will have to do some laps to get the cars setup anyway. > The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. > Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. No, just a stupid punishment for stupid drivers. Putting faster drivers further down the grid should give more excitement during the races (and screw up Hakkinen if he ever returns). > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres for > MS in Brazil. MS can only use 7 sets in total, like everybody else. They can be 7 for F2002 OR 7 for 2001 or a combination (like 3 for F2002 and 4 for F2001). 7 in total. Just because you hate Ferrari, don't go saying the rules are biased towards them. If they don't have tyres for the F2001, and the F2002 breaks down, then you would rather Ferrari don't have a spare car? They shouldn't be punished just because Ron Dennis is a tw*t and is trying to look like he is in the running for the championship. Nobody else in the pitlane cares, including Williams.

Nick wrote: > <snip> > They shouldn't be punished just because Ron Dennis is a > tw*t and is trying to look like he is in the running for the > championship. Nobody else in the pitlane cares, including Williams. Wrong, Patrick Head cared enough to comment on it, last time I checked he still worked for Williams didn't he ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > JPM was clearly at fault for the Malasia crash, No he wasn't... Schuey ran into him, I've watched that incident from every angle repeatedly and it's perfectly clear the MS was at fault... but it was simply a very bad call on the part of the stewards. Even MS said it wasn't JPM fault... although he'd never admit it was his... He still denies he tried to punt JV off in Japan a few years back. Heckler

Although I can't agree with you totally, you are much more on the mark than Mr. Levett. Thanks for the other side of the story. Todd "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. > > Why? On the digital F1 channel it is only on screen when there are no > displays up, and there are almost always time displays on screen for > the current driver. Plus, you can only see it when there is a light > background behind it (ie) not very often. I don't know what it is like > on the normal channel though. > > > Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see why

JPM

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> > was penalised in the other. > > Because Eddie Irvine is pissed off at Ferrari. JPM was clearly at > fault for the Malasia crash, in exactly the same way as DC was at > fault at Silverstone last year. However much he shouts down his pit > radio as he takes his drive thru penalty, he didn't give enough room > on the inside for MS to physically turn his car in on the dustier > inside of the track, and as JB showed against JPM later in the race, > you can take the outer line thru turn 1 and be on the inside thru turn > 2, a much tighter corner, and still lead the Grand Prix. JPM should > know about there being more than one line through constant radius > semi-tight turns coming from ChampCars and all. > > > One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means

there

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> > will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. > > The FIA haven't figured the details yet. It is likely there will be a > minimum number of laps in the practice sessions you have to do, or no > engine de-tuning to save the engines for later. Plus, drivers will > have to do some laps to get the cars setup anyway. > > > The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. > > Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. > > No, just a stupid punishment for stupid drivers. Putting faster > drivers further down the grid should give more excitement during the > races (and screw up Hakkinen if he ever returns). > > > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres

for

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> > MS in Brazil. > > MS can only use 7 sets in total, like everybody else. They can be 7 > for F2002 OR 7 for 2001 or a combination (like 3 for F2002 and 4 for > F2001). 7 in total. Just because you hate Ferrari, don't go saying the > rules are biased towards them. If they don't have tyres for the F2001, > and the F2002 breaks down, then you would rather Ferrari don't have a > spare car? They shouldn't be punished just because Ron Dennis is a > tw*t and is trying to look like he is in the running for the > championship. Nobody else in the pitlane cares, including Williams.

Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a84pip$plj4e$[email hidden]... <snip> > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyresfor > MS in Brazil. 14??? I don't think so.

Its very obvious you don't like him/them, you make such claims which you fail to back up. True, The FIA seem more like the FAI in rule making and enforcing but as these decisions always work in someones favours, I think if you look at it objectivly, where inconsistent enforcment of ruels apply Ferrari has both benefited and lost out as all teams. Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, and both lost their best qual lap without question. How is that preferencial treatment? Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split n McLarens favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen again in 94? Just one example... get facts straight man. Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a85b0h$pqasa$[email hidden]... > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs continued > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing todo

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> with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or the > amount of fans that buy PPV TV. > > -- > > --------------- > Steve Levett > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rbpp8.154512$[email hidden]... > > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a8513b$puig2$[email hidden]... > > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for

the

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> > PPV > > > TV, would they? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > --------------- > > > Steve Levett > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that

season.

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> > > Just as > > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > > > > > > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Check your facts, they had 7 sets for the new car and 7 for the old car. Even though they didnt use 14 sets they were still allowed more than the rest. -- --------------- Steve Levett "Rowdy *Rodney* Piper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TPLp8.2314$[email hidden]... > > Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a84pip$plj4e$[email hidden]... > > <snip> > > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres > for > > MS in Brazil. > > 14??? I don't think so. > >

I've gone through this with others, time and time again. MS and Ferarri get all the breaks, Remember the FIA allowed MS to serve a stop go after the race at Silverstone? His wrecking Hill and attempted crashing of Velleneuve (Not even a ban!) Penalty to JPM for hitting MS, FIA allowing repeated dangerous swerving at starts. The red glasses are blinding you, a vast majority of F1 fans think they get all the breaks, only MS/Ferarri fans disagree. -- --------------- Steve Levett "Rowdy *Rodney* Piper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5aMp8.2315$[email hidden]... > Its very obvious you don't like him/them, you make such claims which you > fail to back up. > True, The FIA seem more like the FAI in rule making and enforcing but as > these decisions always work in someones favours, I think if you look at it > objectivly, where inconsistent enforcment of ruels apply Ferrari has both > benefited and lost out as all teams. > > Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, and both > lost their best qual lap without question. > How is that preferencial treatment? > > Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split n McLarens > favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen again in > 94? > Just one example... get facts straight man. > > > Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a85b0h$pqasa$[email hidden]... > > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs continued > > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing to > do > > with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or the > > amount of fans that buy PPV TV. > > > > -- > > > > --------------- > > Steve Levett > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rbpp8.154512$[email hidden]... > > > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a8513b$puig2$[email hidden]... > > > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for > the > > > PPV > > > > TV, would they? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > --------------- > > > > Steve Levett > > > > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that > season. > > > > Just as > > > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > > > > > > > > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > > > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher yesterday at Brazil ? How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable driving decision he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or (insert non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ? I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya) drove into the back of Schumacher last night too ? Ferrari & Schumacher conspiracy theories are getting real old real quick, open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before laying blame. Cheers, Ron Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in article <a88e7l$q5q4q$[email hidden]>... > I've gone through this with others, time and time again. MS and Ferarriget > all the breaks, Remember the FIA allowed MS to serve a stop go after the > race at Silverstone? His wrecking Hill and attempted crashing ofVelleneuve > (Not even a ban!) Penalty to JPM for hitting MS, FIA allowing repeated > dangerous swerving at starts. > > The red glasses are blinding you, a vast majority of F1 fans think theyget

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> all the breaks, only MS/Ferarri fans disagree. > > -- > > --------------- > Steve Levett > > > "Rowdy *Rodney* Piper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5aMp8.2315$[email hidden]... > > Its very obvious you don't like him/them, you make such claims which

you > > fail to back up. > > True, The FIA seem more like the FAI in rule making and enforcing butas > > these decisions always work in someones favours, I think if you look atit > > objectivly, where inconsistent enforcment of ruels apply Ferrari hasboth > > benefited and lost out as all teams. > > > > Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, andboth > > lost their best qual lap without question. > > How is that preferencial treatment? > > > > Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split nMcLarens > > favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen againin

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> > 94? > > Just one example... get facts straight man. > > > > > > Steve Levett <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a85b0h$pqasa$[email hidden]... > > > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs > continued > > > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing

to > > do > > > with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold orthe

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> > > amount of fans that buy PPV TV. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > --------------- > > > Steve Levett > > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:rbpp8.154512$[email hidden]... > > > > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS. > > > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a8513b$puig2$[email hidden]... > > > > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers

for

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> > the > > > > PPV > > > > > TV, would they? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > --------------- > > > > > Steve Levett > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Steve Levett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that > > season. > > > > > Just as > > > > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve. > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words, punishment at all ..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > http://www.teammirage.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > > > > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Actually Steve, they were given 16 additional tyres (4 sets) for the F2002 in ADDITION to the standard 4 sets that are allowed per driver. So he actually had twice the number of tyres available as opposed to everyone else. http://www.dailyf1.com/en/news/news.php?id=743 Hmmmmm. Rafe Mc On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 02:43:35 +0100, "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Check your facts, they had 7 sets for the new car and 7 for the old car. >Even though they didnt use 14 sets they were still allowed more than the >rest.

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:47 -0000, "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. >Agreed, very annoying and unnecessary. I think we can work out that we're watching F1. While we're on the same subject, how annoying is the timing system now? Instead of telling you the gap from the leader, they only tell you how many stops (repeatedly). Why change something that aint broke? >Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see why JPM >was penalised in the other. I thought it was a bit of cause and effect from both drivers, so both of them were penalised anyway (by crashing out). I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty obvious really. > >One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there >will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. >agreed, I can see that happening. Teams will still design the engines to last only 400km, they will only do the absolute minimum laps in practice that they can get away with. But according to Max, that won't be a problem cos he wants Friday practice banned as well :( >The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. >Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. >Well whether Ferrari or anyone else gets penalised, it's a stupid rule to begin with. Like every driver has said, noone makes a move thinking that they may take someone out. They are simply looking to move up a position. The bosses already frown upon "risky" overtaking manoeuvres, putting more pressure on the driver to "not have a go" is silly. I know there are those who'll say they should only attempt if they know they can make it, but F1 will become (even more) boring if overtaking is made more difficult. >Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres for >MS in Brazil. Actually 16 tyres, 4 sets, but they can have a full allocation per car, rather than per driver. So MS has 8 sets at his disposal (although not all 8 for one car). Which makes one wonder how the FIA can come up with such odd interpretations of their own rules...??? Rafe Mc

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:47 -0000, "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> > wrote: >> > I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty > obvious really. JPM/MS thing?? Not sure what you mean exactly, but when people were finally able to see the JPM/MS first turn in it's entirety and from different angles, it become very clear that JPM squeezed MS's car WAY up onto the curbing unecessarily, which led to the accident. David G Fisher

I've been saying for a year now that RS is the best driver at Williams. JPM gets so much hype but there is no real evidence that he's a better driver than RS or any of the others. David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a89aur$qq6fc$[email hidden]... > I was able to see replays from MS' rear-looking onboard camera, and must > say, although MS changed tracksides, the collision was JPM's fault. He > seemed to want to impress MS by driving extremely close to him, becausethe > speed difference between MS and JPM was so small that JPM could haveeasily > pulled back a bit and left a safety gap. But he chose to stay extremely > close to MS, and then simply overcooked it. > > After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen > (Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM'sfault, > and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different from > what it looked like in the main TV view. > > JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different > impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always > shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself -sullen, > pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly but > fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alwayadopted

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> this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition' > attitude. > > Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could have been. > > Achim > > > > > > > > "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:01c1d92c$0cc04480$2d5d8b90@ronayton... > > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher

yesterday > > at Brazil ? > > How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable driving > decision > > he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or(insert > > non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ? > > I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya) drove > > into the back of Schumacher last night too ? > > Ferrari & Schumacher conspiracy theories are getting real old realquick, > > open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before layingblame. > > > > Cheers, > > Ron > >

I was able to see replays from MS' rear-looking onboard camera, and must say, although MS changed tracksides, the collision was JPM's fault. He seemed to want to impress MS by driving extremely close to him, because the speed difference between MS and JPM was so small that JPM could have easily pulled back a bit and left a safety gap. But he chose to stay extremely close to MS, and then simply overcooked it. After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen (Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM's fault, and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different from what it looked like in the main TV view. JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself - sullen, pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly but fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alway adopted this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition' attitude. Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could have been. Achim "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c1d92c$0cc04480$2d5d8b90@ronayton... > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher yesterday > at Brazil ? > How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable drivingdecision

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> he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or (insert > non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ? > I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya) drove > into the back of Schumacher last night too ? > Ferrari & Schumacher conspiracy theories are getting real old real quick, > open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before laying blame. > > Cheers, > Ron

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:26:52 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I think if JPM hadn't shown rude driving upon several occasions before, he >wouldn't have been punished for this one. He didn't leave MS enough room >which led to the accident, but OTOH this can happen in racing and shouldn't >and wouldn't be punished right away. > >I think what led to this punishment is that he'd pulled off rude and risky >moves several times before, which only worked or at least didn't end in an >accident because the other driver helped him or pulled maturely back to >avoid havoc, which made the Stewarts give him a slap on the hand. > >AAMOF, some of his moves remind me of Sierra.com pickup races ;-) > >Achim >

I don't think so, I think it was more to do with the criticism of the Aust GP as well as the different views of the race stewards. They suddenly were of the opinion "No incidents will be tolerated" (which they have continued with this silly penalise-10-grid-positions thing). And so they decided to jump on the first person who infringed. Also one thing the FIA must change is the issue of a single race steward for the entire series. Having a different steward (with different opinions and views) makes for different interpretations each race. No consistency. They should take a leaf out of CART's book and appoint a travelling steward to each race. FWIW, I think that JPM gave MS enough room, but there are a lot of people who think otherwise. I think 99% of fans would call it a "racing incident" and leave it at that, no need for penalties, both drivers were penalised enough because of the incident.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:16:16 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I tend to agree, at least currently. RS maybe be a slightly slower hotlapper >than JPM, but he seems to be a more mature, complete 'racer' as opposed to >'driver'. The overall results seem to confirm this. > >A lot of JPM's maneuvers were actually similar to what you see in pickup >races on Sierra.com a lot - people trying to win the race in T1, people >taking the passed car out with them in a mishappen pass attempted without a >real chance for it to work, people going for spaces that aren't actually >there - that sort of thing. > >Staying out of trouble and - despite all competition - integrate in a way >into the group of racers (by giving the same respect that you expect to >receive) that run the race are important capabilities as well. > >Achim

But that's exactly what makes him such an exciting driver to watch - he makes a move where no one else would be able to pull it off. I agree, he often outdrives the car in attempting some of his moves, like at the start in Brazil. But you have the opposite at McLaren, where DC and KR were stuck behind the Renaults for an absolute age. They were obviously quicker, but neither driver had the balls to try and manufacture something. I know who I'd rather watch carving through the field, like JPM and MS did in the last 2 races. MS is of a similar style to JPM, the differences being that he tends to be less wild in his attempts and pull them off more often, but he is the most ruthless when it comes to defending a position. Rafe Mc

I tend to agree, at least currently. RS maybe be a slightly slower hotlapper than JPM, but he seems to be a more mature, complete 'racer' as opposed to 'driver'. The overall results seem to confirm this. A lot of JPM's maneuvers were actually similar to what you see in pickup races on Sierra.com a lot - people trying to win the race in T1, people taking the passed car out with them in a mishappen pass attempted without a real chance for it to work, people going for spaces that aren't actually there - that sort of thing. Staying out of trouble and - despite all competition - integrate in a way into the group of racers (by giving the same respect that you expect to receive) that run the race are important capabilities as well. Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:USWp8.70135$[email hidden]... > I've been saying for a year now that RS is the best driver at Williams.JPM

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> gets so much hype but there is no real evidence that he's a better driver > than RS or any of the others. > > David G Fisher > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a89aur$qq6fc$[email hidden]... > > I was able to see replays from MS' rear-looking onboard camera, and must > > say, although MS changed tracksides, the collision was JPM's fault. He > > seemed to want to impress MS by driving extremely close to him, because > the > > speed difference between MS and JPM was so small that JPM could have > easily > > pulled back a bit and left a safety gap. But he chose to stay extremely > > close to MS, and then simply overcooked it. > > > > After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen > > (Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM's > fault, > > and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different

from

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> > what it looked like in the main TV view. > > > > JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different > > impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always > > shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself - > sullen, > > pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly

but > > fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alway > adopted > > this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition' > > attitude. > > > > Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could havebeen.

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> > > > Achim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:01c1d92c$0cc04480$2d5d8b90@ronayton... > > > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher > yesterday > > > at Brazil ? > > > How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable driving > > decision > > > he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or > (insert > > > non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ? > > > I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya)

drove

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> > > into the back of Schumacher last night too ? > > > Ferrari & Schumacher conspiracy theories are getting real old real > quick, > > > open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before laying > blame. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ron > > > > > >

I think if JPM hadn't shown rude driving upon several occasions before, he wouldn't have been punished for this one. He didn't leave MS enough room which led to the accident, but OTOH this can happen in racing and shouldn't and wouldn't be punished right away. I think what led to this punishment is that he'd pulled off rude and risky moves several times before, which only worked or at least didn't end in an accident because the other driver helped him or pulled maturely back to avoid havoc, which made the Stewarts give him a slap on the hand. AAMOF, some of his moves remind me of Sierra.com pickup races ;-) Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AQWp8.367195$[email hidden]...

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> > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:47 -0000, "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > >> > > I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty > > obvious really. > > JPM/MS thing?? > > Not sure what you mean exactly, but when people were finally able to see

the > JPM/MS first turn in it's entirety and from different angles, it becomevery > clear that JPM squeezed MS's car WAY up onto the curbing unecessarily,which > led to the accident. > > David G Fisher > > >

"Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c1d92c$0cc04480$2d5d8b90@ronayton... > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher yesterday > at Brazil ? Hey, Newbies are supposed to lurk for a while and get the feel of a NG before posting :-) MS

I enjoy watching someone who drives competitively, but does it well. A good move for me is one that isn't breakneck but intelligent, that works without the other driver massively cooperating, and that doesn't create havoc if the other driver doesn't pull back and yield immediately even if he's in the stronger position. There are examples for such moves, some done by MS, Hakkinen did one at Spa for example, Verstappen can do it, or like when Villeneuve passed MS around the outside in his Williams. IMO we have yet to see a brilliant move from JPM, his are usually just breakneck. Achim "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ...

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> But that's exactly what makes him such an exciting driver to watch - > he makes a move where no one else would be able to pull it off. I > agree, he often outdrives the car in attempting some of his moves, > like at the start in Brazil. But you have the opposite at McLaren, > where DC and KR were stuck behind the Renaults for an absolute age. > They were obviously quicker, but neither driver had the balls to try > and manufacture something. I know who I'd rather watch carving through > the field, like JPM and MS did in the last 2 races. > > MS is of a similar style to JPM, the differences being that he tends > to be less wild in his attempts and pull them off more often, but he > is the most ruthless when it comes to defending a position.

This could also have been the cause. Achim "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:26:52 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> > wrote:... > I don't think so, I think it was more to do with the criticism of the > Aust GP as well as the different views of the race stewards....

> Wrong, Patrick Head cared enough to comment on it, last time I checked > he still worked for Williams didn't he ? Wrong, Patrick Head said he thought it was a 'wind-up' that circulates the pitlane once in a while. So yeah, he 'commented', but he didn't think it mattered. Nick.

Nick wrote:

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> > > Wrong, Patrick Head cared enough to comment on it, last time I checked > > he still worked for Williams didn't he ? > > Wrong, Patrick Head said he thought it was a 'wind-up' that circulates > the pitlane once in a while. So yeah, he 'commented', but he didn't > think it mattered.

If you're going to quote only the parts that suit you, then the discussion is futile, here's what I read on "Autosport", which is usually a fairly dependable source so I'll assume that the answers from Head aren't fabricated or taken out of context --- Head wants Ferrari tyre clarification Williams tech boss unhappy about Scheuy's number of tyres Williams technical director Patrick Head is seeking clarification about the number of sets of tyres world champion Michael Schumacher will have at his disposal in Interlagos. The situation has arisen because Ferrari has brought an F2002 to Brazil as Schumacher's race car and the older F2001 as his spare. The new car's wheels do not fit the F2001 due to different off-sets. Speaking on Friday afternoon, Head said: "We are still not quite clear what the situation is, but from what I hear, the FIA has approved that tomorrow Michael can have four sets of tyres for the 2002 car and four sets for the 2001 car. If that's correct, it is completely against article 80C of the Sporting Code, which says that the driver and not the car, is allocated only four sets of tyres. "Ferrari has a problem because the wheels on one car don't fit the wheels on the other, so I can see why they want to do it, but it is, from our understanding, not compliant with article 80c. We will be having some discussions." Head then added with a smile: "It may not be the case. Every now and then there's a wind-up that goes up and down the pitlane and one has to be careful not to over-react..." --- He obviously cared enough to comment, enough to make statements about MS having 4 sets available for both cars would be "completely against article 80C of the Sporting Code, which says that the driver and not the car, is allocated only four sets of tyres" Back to you Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a84pip$plj4e$[email hidden]... > Get rid of that damn massive F1 logo. > > Eddie Irvine admitted Barichello caused the RS crash and couldnt see whyJPM > was penalised in the other. MS was at fault, but he'd never admit it. > One engine rule, good in theory to reduce costs, but this will means there > will be hardly any action in the practice sessions. Not good for fans. How many people really watch the practice sessions? It's a fraction of those that watch the qualifying/race. It's going to be a good thing for F1, they have to start reducing the costs or we'll see the extinction of all but the top 3-4 teams, and that won't be good for the sport. > The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. > Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. I thought MS move against JPM in the Brazil race was a little on the extreme side, theres blocking and theres being an idiot... but it's a shiny red Ferrari, so nothing will be done about it. MS may be a great driver, but I can't stand his arrogance and over agressive behaviour on the track, it's a shame the greatest driver in the world at present is a prick... but then maybe it's prerqusite. :o) > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyresfor > MS in Brazil. Although MS did have 14 sets of tires 7 were allotted to the 2002 car and 7 for the 2001 car he had as a spare. The reason being that the wheels for the cars were different... as long as he stuck to the maximum 7 sets used over the weekend he was fine, but if he had used a total of 8 then they would have penalised him. Heckler

LOL, goodhaye stranger, i have to admit its been a few months since i last posted here, except for a small message i left for Goy about Aussie V8's, but believe me, i lurk a lot and never miss a posting, so watch what you post or you shall feel my wrath. <G> Hope you're keeping well Mark. Cheers, Ron Mark Seery <[email hidden]> wrote in article <a89rbu$9kf$[email hidden]>... > > "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:01c1d92c$0cc04480$2d5d8b90@ronayton... > > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacheryesterday

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> > at Brazil ? > > > Hey, Newbies are supposed to lurk for a while and get the feel of a NG > before posting :-) > > MS > > >

Ron Ayton wrote: > > LOL, goodhaye stranger, i have to admit its been a few months since i > last posted here, except for a small message i left for Goy about Aussie > V8's, but believe me, i lurk a lot and never miss a posting, so watch what > you post or you shall feel my wrath. <G> > Hope you're keeping well Mark. Aussie V8's !!! I saw that :-) Hey, is Larry Perkins back in the driver seat again, I got that impression from what I read on his web site Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Hi Goy, Getting Larry out of the driving seat would be like trying to bump our butts on the moon. <G> He was talking about going the team manager route, similiar to Peter Brock has now done, but i think Larry will need a damn big crowbar to get him out of the driving seat and into the manager's seat. :) He loves his racing as you well know, so i think we will see him driving around a bit more yet.. I nearly replied to your post the other day Goy about wishing we had a decent mod for Aussie V8's, but i figured for a non-Aussie (or in your case "honorary-Aussie") you were doing a damn good job on your own trying to promote V8 racing. <G> It is a good series and would make a great addition to our sim experiences. That's three posts from me in 2 days, so i better slink back into lurk mode now.... :) Cheers, Ron Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > Ron Ayton wrote: > > > > LOL, goodhaye stranger, i have to admit its been a few months since i > > last posted here, except for a small message i left for Goy aboutAussie > > V8's, but believe me, i lurk a lot and never miss a posting, so watchwhat

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> > you post or you shall feel my wrath. <G> > > Hope you're keeping well Mark. > > Aussie V8's !!! > > I saw that :-) > > Hey, is Larry Perkins back in the driver seat again, I got that > impression from what I read on his web site > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)-- >

"Goy Larsen" > > He obviously cared enough to comment, enough to make statements about MS > having 4 sets available for both cars would be "completely against > article 80C of the Sporting Code, which says that the driver and not the > car, is allocated only four sets of tyres" Sporting Code and F1???? why don't those sound like they belong together?????? dave henrie????

"Goy Larsen" Sporting Code and F1???? why don't those sound like they belong together?????? dave henrie????

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:47 -0000, "Steve Levett" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > >> > > I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty > > obvious really. > > JPM/MS thing?? > > Not sure what you mean exactly, but when people were finally able to see the > JPM/MS first turn in it's entirety and from different angles, it become very > clear that JPM squeezed MS's car WAY up onto the curbing unecessarily, which > led to the accident.

huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

>huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about >the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this >last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. Yeah, we're busy bringing arguments back from the dead ;) Regarding Malaysia that was, but those two are inseparable when it comes to F1 races nowadays. Good to see some decent competition for MS finally anyway :) Rafe Mc

>How many people really watch the practice sessions? It's a fraction of those >that watch the qualifying/race. It's going to be a good thing for F1, they >have to start reducing the costs or we'll see the extinction of all but the >top 3-4 teams, and that won't be good for the sport. > If you're talking about TV coverage of practice, fair enough. But as for watching trackside, I would never miss a practice session. Always entertaining when the drivers try to push the envelope and get out of shape, without the worry about damaging their car (to a degree). Friday attendance at GPs will be woeful.

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>> The rule about dropping down the grid 10 places for causing an accident. >> Another way to penalise drivers for daring to come close to a red car. > >I thought MS move against JPM in the Brazil race was a little on the extreme >side, theres blocking and theres being an idiot... but it's a shiny red >Ferrari, so nothing will be done about it. MS may be a great driver, but I >can't stand his arrogance and over agressive behaviour on the track, it's a >shame the greatest driver in the world at present is a prick... but then >maybe it's prerqusite. :o)

I agree, I thought that JPM was pretty committed to going for the inside and MS shut the door pretty damn late. But I guess his aggressiveness and ruthlessness is part of why he's no. 1.

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> >> Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres >for >> MS in Brazil. > >Although MS did have 14 sets of tires 7 were allotted to the 2002 car and 7 >for the 2001 car he had as a spare. The reason being that the wheels for the >cars were different... as long as he stuck to the maximum 7 sets used over >the weekend he was fine, but if he had used a total of 8 then they would >have penalised him.

Well if that's the case then fair enough, he wouldn't be using more than other drivers. I can see their point in giving him a full allocation to each car, since he may choose to use the full allocation just on the F2002. Rafe Mc

Yes, his brother has been really pushing him these last two seasons. :-) David G Fisher "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > >huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about > >the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this > >last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. > > Yeah, we're busy bringing arguments back from the dead ;) Regarding > Malaysia that was, but those two are inseparable when it comes to F1 > races nowadays. > > Good to see some decent competition for MS finally anyway :) > > Rafe Mc

Rafe McAuliffe <[email hidden]> writes: > While we're on the same subject, how annoying is the timing system > now? Instead of telling you the gap from the leader, they only tell > you how many stops (repeatedly). Why change something that aint broke? They started doing something similar last year (Or earlier.) In the beginning, when the cars are close they show the gaps, but after a while when the gaps has grown and there is clear that there isn't going to be any more racing, just lapping, they just show the positions to make it seem closer. (a 25 sec. gap isn't that exciting.) -- -asbjxrn

I just don't understand why JPM gets the attention he does. Is it because fans of CART want to see him do well (aren't that many CART fans)? Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, had better race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure (despite what people seem to think). Before he can be considered for a second to be a serious challenger to MS, JPM has to at least be the #1 driver on his own team. I'm more impressed by younger and less experienced drivers like Raikkonen, Button, and even Heidfeld. David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8bu38$pq1pt$[email hidden]...

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> Images from MS' rear looking onboard camera make it look rather different > from main TV view. It looks as if the speed difference between JPM and MS > had been so small that JPM could have avoided the contact without a prob - > he seemed to be so intent on impress MS that he simply overcooked it. > > One should in all fairness also look at previous incidents between the two > where JPM made rude or rookie moves that cost MS a lot. > > JPM's last year's pass in T1 in Brazil was not the great pass many made of > it, it was a rookie maneuver which only worked because MS went way wide to > allow JPM to recover, and then consequently in the next corner was on the > curb or even halfway on the grass and couldn't accelerate. Or JPM's move

in > Zeltweg where both had to come to a stop - that was not a racing maneuver > either, it was a rookie mistake from JPM. > > I think if we're talking about rough moves and fairness, the situation isat

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> least balanced between the two :-) > > Achim > > > > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > ... > > I agree, I thought that JPM was pretty committed to going for the > > inside and MS shut the door pretty damn late. But I guess his > > aggressiveness and ruthlessness is part of why he's no. 1. > ... > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: > I just don't understand why JPM gets the attention he does. Is it because > fans of CART want to see him do well (aren't that many CART fans)? My impression is that there are anti-CART fans who wants him to do bad, some snobish F1 elitist who think that he cant be a good driver since he was in CART and so on. Note those who dislike JPM also dislikes Jaques Villeneuve. And then there are those who followed him in CART (and earlier) who appreciate the talent, and those who didn't and also appreciate the talent. The main thing however is that he represents a fresh breeze into F1, which we haven't seen for almost ten years. > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, had better > race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure (despite > what people seem to think). Ralf was the experienced one, and are a bit more cold headed (or whimp if you like). The second half of last season was JPM's all the way. And JPM has 4 pole positions already. > Before he can be considered for a second to be a serious challenger to MS, > JPM has to at least be the #1 driver on his own team. There are no #1 and #2 in Williams. > I'm more impressed by younger and less experienced drivers like Raikkonen, > Button, and even Heidfeld. They are good drivers, indeed.

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> David G Fisher > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a8bu38$pq1pt$[email hidden]... > > Images from MS' rear looking onboard camera make it look rather different > > from main TV view. It looks as if the speed difference between JPM and MS > > had been so small that JPM could have avoided the contact without a prob - > > he seemed to be so intent on impress MS that he simply overcooked it. > > > > One should in all fairness also look at previous incidents between the two > > where JPM made rude or rookie moves that cost MS a lot. > > > > JPM's last year's pass in T1 in Brazil was not the great pass many made of > > it, it was a rookie maneuver which only worked because MS went way wide to > > allow JPM to recover, and then consequently in the next corner was on the > > curb or even halfway on the grass and couldn't accelerate. Or JPM's move > in > > Zeltweg where both had to come to a stop - that was not a racing maneuver > > either, it was a rookie mistake from JPM. > > > > I think if we're talking about rough moves and fairness, the situation is > at > > least balanced between the two :-) > > > > Achim > > > > > > > > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > ... > > > I agree, I thought that JPM was pretty committed to going for the > > > inside and MS shut the door pretty damn late. But I guess his > > > aggressiveness and ruthlessness is part of why he's no. 1. > > ... > > > > > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: > The main thing however is that he represents a fresh breeze into F1, > which we haven't seen for almost ten years. I don't see anything fresh about him other than he seems insecure which leads to him making mistakes. > > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, hadbetter > > race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure(despite > > what people seem to think). > > Ralf was the experienced one, They are the same age, JPM raced in F3000, was a F1 test driver, and had plenty of CART experience. >and are a bit more cold headed (or whimp > if you like). The second half of last season was JPM's all the > way. And JPM has 4 pole positions already. The season was RS's. I'd say the last quarter was JPM's (at the tracks best suited for the Williams), but it's widely known that RS had his mind on other things after MS clinched the championship like the birth of his son and the WTC bombings. He and MS almost decided not to even race. This season has been RS's as well. He out qualified JPM at Melbourne, has a win, and a second. > > Before he can be considered for a second to be a serious challenger toMS, > > JPM has to at least be the #1 driver on his own team. > > There are no #1 and #2 in Williams. Maybe not officially, but the results say who's #1 and that's still RS. > > I'm more impressed by younger and less experienced drivers likeRaikkonen, > > Button, and even Heidfeld. > > They are good drivers, indeed. > > > David G Fisher

Images from MS' rear looking onboard camera make it look rather different from main TV view. It looks as if the speed difference between JPM and MS had been so small that JPM could have avoided the contact without a prob - he seemed to be so intent on impress MS that he simply overcooked it. One should in all fairness also look at previous incidents between the two where JPM made rude or rookie moves that cost MS a lot. JPM's last year's pass in T1 in Brazil was not the great pass many made of it, it was a rookie maneuver which only worked because MS went way wide to allow JPM to recover, and then consequently in the next corner was on the curb or even halfway on the grass and couldn't accelerate. Or JPM's move in Zeltweg where both had to come to a stop - that was not a racing maneuver either, it was a rookie mistake from JPM. I think if we're talking about rough moves and fairness, the situation is at least balanced between the two :-) Achim "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > I agree, I thought that JPM was pretty committed to going for the > inside and MS shut the door pretty damn late. But I guess his > aggressiveness and ruthlessness is part of why he's no. 1....

I think it may have to do with JPM's CART history, but also with the media's need to create hypes in general, to keep the interest alive. If you listen to what the drivers or F1 teams say, I can't find much of a Montoya hype there. This hype comes from the press, the media. Their hyping JPM is probably simply for the purpose of making the whole F1 story more interesting and getting themselves more spectators. I get the impression at least in Germany that the press is looking for sensations, and since usually there aren't any, they simply talk things up a lot, and declare someone or something to be a sensation. Just business interest IMHO. If I try and remember the number of 'next best things' that's been hyped by the German media in the past years, a long driver list comes to mind - Heidfeld, Button, Trulli, Fisichella, RS (yes, he also once was TNBT <g>), Frentzen, Salo (!), Raikkonen, that Brazilian guy (I even forget his name now), Verstappen - the media jump on everyone and try to make a hype of them, and if they don't perform (i.e. create headlines) they're dropped just as quickly as they were hyped up. Montoya at least creates headlines :-) Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6jfq8.159635$[email hidden]... > I just don't understand why JPM gets the attention he does. Is it because > fans of CART want to see him do well (aren't that many CART fans)? > > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, hadbetter

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> race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure (despite > what people seem to think). > > Before he can be considered for a second to be a serious challenger to MS, > JPM has to at least be the #1 driver on his own team. > > I'm more impressed by younger and less experienced drivers like Raikkonen, > Button, and even Heidfeld. > > David G Fisher

Yep, I was really hoping Ralf would pull it off. I was very surprised the BMW power couldn't keep up with the Ferrari on the frontstretch, irregardless of the downforce differences. -John "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > >huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about > >the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this > >last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. > > Yeah, we're busy bringing arguments back from the dead ;) Regarding > Malaysia that was, but those two are inseparable when it comes to F1 > races nowadays. > > Good to see some decent competition for MS finally anyway :) > > Rafe Mc

Yep, I think you're right; thought I heard the announcers say the same thing. Everytime Ralf caught up to MS in the infield complex, I thought this was the lap for the pass, but MS just flew out of the last turns onto the frontstretch every time. Very fun to watch. Can't imagine what those two's heartrates must have been. -John "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8cgge$r5etr$[email hidden]...

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> I was surprised by that as well. Especially since the top speed of the BMW > was a tad higher. Maybe Ferrari had more rear wing because it accelerated > better out of the final two corners - Ralf said something to that effect. > > Achim > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Yep, I was really hoping Ralf would pull it off. I was very surprised > the > > BMW power couldn't keep up with the Ferrari on the frontstretch, > > irregardless of the downforce differences. > > > > -John > > > > > > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > >huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about > > > >the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this > > > >last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. > > > > > > Yeah, we're busy bringing arguments back from the dead ;) Regarding > > > Malaysia that was, but those two are inseparable when it comes to F1 > > > races nowadays. > > > > > > Good to see some decent competition for MS finally anyway :) > > > > > > Rafe Mc > > > > > >

I was surprised by that as well. Especially since the top speed of the BMW was a tad higher. Maybe Ferrari had more rear wing because it accelerated better out of the final two corners - Ralf said something to that effect. Achim "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yep, I was really hoping Ralf would pull it off. I was very surprisedthe

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> BMW power couldn't keep up with the Ferrari on the frontstretch, > irregardless of the downforce differences. > > -John > > > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > >huh? I think I fell of somewhere around here. are we talking about > > >the T1-thing one or two races ago, or did I miss something in this > > >last race? we only got a 30-minute edited broadcast in Norway. > > > > Yeah, we're busy bringing arguments back from the dead ;) Regarding > > Malaysia that was, but those two are inseparable when it comes to F1 > > races nowadays. > > > > Good to see some decent competition for MS finally anyway :) > > > > Rafe Mc > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6jfq8.159635$[email hidden]... > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, hadbetter > race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure (despite > what people seem to think). Now go back a little further to a time when RS was being left behind by Hill in qualifying and throwing Jordans up the road in races like tennis balls. Ralph has matured into a fine driver in a period of time exceeding half a decade. Anyone with a bit of savvy can surely see the same raw material in JPM that was once RS in only his second season. MS

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6jfq8.159635$[email hidden]... > I just don't understand why JPM gets the attention he does. Is it because > fans of CART want to see him do well (aren't that many CART fans)? I think it's because he's put some excitement back into the sport, he's agressive.. yet likeable, he goes for it when many other drivers wouldn't.. it's cost him plenty, I think his move in last years Barzillian race was superb, and if it hadn't been for the Arrows forgetting where the brake pedal was, he probably would have won it. > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, hadbetter > race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure (despite > what people seem to think). Ralf is the more mechanical of the two at Williams, but let's not forget that RS was much like JPM is a few years ago... how many accidents did he cause, how many times did he take out his team mate? > Before he can be considered for a second to be a serious challenger to MS, > JPM has to at least be the #1 driver on his own team. Absoloutely, at present RS is the main competitor to MS.. I just think that people want to see MS dethroned, I think many people are getting tired of him. > I'm more impressed by younger and less experienced drivers like Raikkonen, > Button, and even Heidfeld. Well I'm gonna be biased towards Button as he's a fellow countryman, and his debut season was a very good one indeed... he out qualified RS on many occasions (More so than JPM) but also showed his inexperience with silly mistakes... Remember when he went of when the safety car was out because he didn't realise the cars in front were doing slow/fast moves to get heat into the tires... he came screaming down the straight, had to swerve to avoid hitting the car in front and into the wall... rookie mistake. Heckler

"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > I just don't understand why JPM gets the attention he does. Is itbecause > > fans of CART want to see him do well (aren't that many CART fans)? > > My impression is that there are anti-CART fans who wants him to do > bad, some snobish F1 elitist who think that he cant be a good driver > since he was in CART and so on. Note those who dislike JPM also > dislikes Jaques Villeneuve. I like JPM, I dislike JV .. can't say exactly why... I just always have, maybe it's because he's French Canadian... :o) But then a similar thing happened when Mansell cam over to race in the US.. and look at that, won the championship in his rookie season. (Yeah I know great car and all that, but still quite an achievement) > And then there are those who followed him in CART (and earlier) who > appreciate the talent, and those who didn't and also appreciate the > talent. Plus he's a very likeable bloke, all of his interviews have shown how friendly and personable he is.. unlike MS, who shows his arrogance and superior attitude.. he acts all.... Well German. :o) > The main thing however is that he represents a fresh breeze into F1, > which we haven't seen for almost ten years. Yup. > Ralf was the experienced one, and are a bit more cold headed (or whimp > if you like). The second half of last season was JPM's all the > way. And JPM has 4 pole positions already. Plus RS was in a similar situation a couple of years ago and made plenty of stupid mistakes himself. Heckler

I stand corrected. I only quoted what I saw on TV, where he was chuckling and saying the last part of your quote. I am sure autosport is correct, and I don't know why the TV company would leave out all of that as it is much more relevant than an early april fools type quote. Thanks for clearing it up. Ferrari still don't get their own rules though, which was the point of the article in the first place... Nick.

Nick wrote:

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> > I stand corrected. I only quoted what I saw on TV, where he was > chuckling and saying the last part of your quote. I am sure autosport > is correct, and I don't know why the TV company would leave out all of > that as it is much more relevant than an early april fools type quote. > > Thanks for clearing it up. Ferrari still don't get their own rules > though, which was the point of the article in the first place...

History "proves", for me at least, that Ferrari has gotten more than a few breaks from FIA/FISA or whatever it has been called over the years, and I'm not talking about the last 10 years or whatever, it's almost a tradition.... As for the quote, if they left out that much of Patrick Heads comments, I'd complain to the TV station, loudly, it completely changes his attitude about the issue at hand Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

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> Speaking on Friday afternoon, Head said: "We are still not quite clear > what the situation is, but from what I hear, the FIA has approved that > tomorrow Michael can have four sets of tyres for the 2002 car and four > sets for the 2001 car. If that's correct, it is completely against > article 80C of the Sporting Code, which says that the driver and not the > car, is allocated only four sets of tyres. > > "Ferrari has a problem because the wheels on one car don't fit the > wheels on the other, so I can see why they want to do it, but it is, > from our understanding, not compliant with article 80c. We will be > having some discussions."

'During initial scrutineering, each competitor may have up to forty four dry-weather tyres and thirty six wet-weather tyres for each of his drivers ready for marking in his garage. Tyres not marked during initial scrutineering can be marked at other times by arrangement with the FIA technical delegate.' 'From among the twenty-eight dry-weather tyres chosen for each car for qualifying practice, warm up and the race, the FIA technical delegate will choose at random sixteen tyres (eight front and eight rear) which are the only dry-weather tyres which such car may use in qualifying practice.' Notice the words 'SUCH CAR'. To me, this implies that each car can have four sets of dry-weather tyres for each car. The FIA confirmed this. The kicker, though, is 80E, which Ferrari would have used anyway: 'A competitor wishing to replace an already marked unused tyre by another unused one must present both tyres to the FIA technical delegate.' If the F2002 car had been wiped out in that Bernoldi / Medical Car / Heidfeld incident, for example, Ferrari could have taken their unused F2002 specification tyres to the FIA technical delegate, and had them replaced with unused F2001 specification tyres. It's always handy to keep a sporting regulations book around :-) Nick.

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a8cpr5$ng5$[email hidden]...

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6jfq8.159635$[email hidden]... > > > Since they've been together at Williams, RS has qualified better, had > better > > race results, less crashes, and only one less mechanical failure

(despite > > what people seem to think). > > Now go back a little further to a time when RS was being left behind byHill > in qualifying and throwing Jordans up the road in races like tennisballs. > > Ralph has matured into a fine driver in a period of time exceeding half a > decade. Anyone with a bit of savvy can surely see the same raw material in > JPM that was once RS in only his second season. > > MS But they are the same age. JPM has also had the benefit of driving one of the two best cars in his first two seasons, a huge advantage RS didn't enjoy. If JPM was the same age as Button and Raikkonen then I'd be willing to go for the "raw talent" angle with JPM. With all his CART, F3000, F1 testing, and F1 experience, he's a pure veteran now. David G Fisher

Nick wrote: > > It's always handy to keep a sporting regulations book around :-) No question I don't have that so I'm at a distinct disadvantage there, so I'll leave that bit up to the lawyers which I'm sure each team have at hand for these occassions.....what's the world coming to Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

> > But they are the same age. What has physical age got to do with it? Damon Hill was a F1 newbie at the age of 31. >JPM has also had the benefit of driving one of > the two best cars in his first two seasons, a huge advantage RS didn't > enjoy. This does not detract from the fact that Ralph was comprehensively beaten by at least one team mate in his early forays. If a car is not at the sharp end, the benchmark is always the sister car. Are we not comparing these guys as team mates here? If JPM was the same age as Button and Raikkonen then I'd be willing > to go for the "raw talent" angle The Buttons, Kimmis etc of this world lack experience and good as they are, their lack of experience usually sorts them out somewhere down the line. Look at Button last year, floundering at the back with a car that he had neither the technical knowledge or experience to sort whilst his team mate was somewhere up the road almost every race. Anyone remember a young gun impressively taking the fight to MS in a Bennetton a few years ago at Monaco. Where is Alez Wurz now? >with JPM. With all his CART, F3000, F1 > testing, and F1 experience, he's a pure veteran now. Did Alex Zanardi not have the "veteran" maturity that Williams was craving at the right price? :-) CART is a totally different animal with totally different handling and engine characteristics. There is little here that could be applied to F1. Villeneuve was the exception here by teaching Williams a thing or two about asymmetric car setup. Zanardi and Andretti were classic cases displaying "horses for courses". I'll admit though that in CART and the junior FIA leagues you do learn racecraft and this can be applied in the upper reaches. Montoya has been around, sure. I used to pay a tenner to go and see the guy in F3 on windswept British club circuits. He used to blitz fields, only to fall back into their clutches after destroying tyres after half a race. The fact remains that very few drivers get to the top in F1 with less than 20 races under their belts. It takes longer. RS is a classic case in point. MS > > David G Fisher > > > >

> I don't have that so I'm at a distinct disadvantage there, so I'll leave > that bit up to the lawyers which I'm sure each team have at hand for > these occassions.....what's the world coming to You got that right... where would the world be without the words 'potential loophole' :-) I don't know if the sporting regulations are available on the net, but they should be somewhere, try google.com Nick.

Ron Ayton wrote:

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> > Hi Goy, > > Getting Larry out of the driving seat would be like trying to bump our > butts on the moon. <G> > He was talking about going the team manager route, similiar to Peter Brock > has now done, but i think Larry will need a damn big crowbar to get him out > of the driving seat and into the manager's seat. :) > He loves his racing as you well know, so i think we will see him driving > around a bit more yet.. > I nearly replied to your post the other day Goy about wishing we had a > decent mod for Aussie V8's, but i figured for a non-Aussie (or in your case > "honorary-Aussie") you were doing a damn good job on your own trying to > promote V8 racing. <G> > It is a good series and would make a great addition to our sim experiences. > > That's three posts from me in 2 days, so i better slink back into lurk mode > now.... :)

LOL, well, off you go then, good to see Larry still going strong, even if he's not quite capable of running right up at the sharp end of the field any more, in the US he would have been one of the "good ol boys" for sure :-) Kinda proud to be considered an honorary Aussie :-), speaking of which, one of the guys at IWCCCARS has kindly offered to paint me a Castrol Chevy, and I'd like to have it painted in the Castrol scheme that Larry ran in the middle to late 90's, but I can't find any places that has "archive" pics from the AussieV8 series, the current paint scheme they're running looks kinda blah if you ask me, I'm looking for some good pics of that green and white car with black hood he ran, any info would be much appreciated Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Hi Goy, try this link it has the castrol cars with the black bonnet. In the Larry perkins section 1999 I think. http://www.castrol.com.au/castrolmotorsport/default.html Regards Phil. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Ron Ayton wrote: > > > > Hi Goy, > > > > Getting Larry out of the driving seat would be like trying to bump our

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> Kinda proud to be considered an honorary Aussie :-), speaking of which, > one of the guys at IWCCCARS has kindly offered to paint me a Castrol > Chevy, and I'd like to have it painted in the Castrol scheme that Larry > ran in the middle to late 90's, but I can't find any places that has > "archive" pics from the AussieV8 series, the current paint scheme > they're running looks kinda blah if you ask me, I'm looking for some > good pics of that green and white car with black hood he ran, any info > would be much appreciated > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Philip Ford wrote:

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> > Hi Goy, try this link it has the castrol cars with the black bonnet. > In the Larry perkins section 1999 I think. > > http://www.castrol.com.au/castrolmotorsport/default.html > > Regards Phil.

Thx Phil Well, it's not quite the scheme I was looking for, but it sure beats the current one, so if I can't find anything else, I'll try to dig up some more pics of that one, much appreciated Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Hi Goy, "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Philip Ford wrote: > > > > Hi Goy, try this link it has the castrol cars with the black bonnet. > > In the Larry perkins section 1999 I think. > > > > http://www.castrol.com.au/castrolmotorsport/default.html > > > > Regards Phil. > > Thx Phil > > Well, it's not quite the scheme I was looking for, but it sure beats the > current one, so if I can't find anything else, I'll try to dig up some > more pics of that one, much appreciated > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

Snip Did you goto the images section then 1999 pics? There is pictures of the Castrol car with the black bonnet. Sorry Goy thought this is the one you were after. Regards Phil.

Philip Ford wrote:

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> > Hi Goy, > > Did you goto the images section then 1999 pics? > > There is pictures of the Castrol car with the black bonnet. > Sorry Goy thought this is the one you were after. > > Regards Phil.

Hi Phil That paint job is a variation of the one I'm looking for :-) I have this image in my head of the car he drove in mid 90's and it's similar, but not quite the same, but it sure beats the one they're currently running, can't imagine what they were thinking when they came up with that Strange really, with the popularity of the V8 racing in Australia, and the number of fan sites I've been to in the past couple of days, you'd think there would be a couple of sites with pics from before 99/00, but aside from a few pics of Peter Brock, it's almost non existent I might have to write to Larry himself :-), at least he's got a web site up and running now, e-mail and everything....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--