Is it just me or is N4 just not fun?

I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as N3 was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim, but shouldn't it be fun as well? Rob

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:23:02 GMT, "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No >matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment >level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the >wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a >stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as N3 >was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim, but >shouldn't it be fun as well? > >Rob

Try the N2002 demo.. I never liked N4 but I love N2002, the handling of the car is much better in N2002. And yes, racing with 43 cars on the Coca Cola oval is FUN :) Andre

I find this with all of the short ovals. 'tona, 'dega, Sears, Watkins and the addon road courses are fun - but every other track ( dover, darlington, etc etc etc et-bloody-c) drive me NUTS - I cant STAND them no matter how much I try and enjoy them. Doug "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]... > I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No > matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment > level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the > wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a > stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as N3 > was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim,but > shouldn't it be fun as well? > > Rob > >

I think that roadcourses are just alot more fun anyways. It's not so much a shortcoming of N4 as it is of Nascar itself, IMHO. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6aet7$cnelc$[email hidden]... > I find this with all of the short ovals. > > 'tona, 'dega, Sears, Watkins and the addon road courses are fun - butevery > other track ( dover, darlington, etc etc etc et-bloody-c) drive me NUTS -I

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> cant STAND them no matter how much I try and enjoy them. > > Doug > > "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]... > > I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No > > matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment > > level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the > > wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a > > stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as

N3

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> > was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim, > but > > shouldn't it be fun as well? > > > > Rob > > > > > >

"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> writes: > I find this with all of the short ovals. > > 'tona, 'dega, Sears, Watkins and the addon road courses are fun - but every > other track ( dover, darlington, etc etc etc et-bloody-c) drive me NUTS - I > cant STAND them no matter how much I try and enjoy them. Agree a bit on that. However, during our GPL league offseason we played N4 online and found Martinsville to be a very funny track. Dragrace-brake-turn-dragrace and so on. I won a race with a 1 inch margin there :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> I think that roadcourses are just alot more fun anyways. It's not so mucha > shortcoming of N4 as it is of Nascar itself, IMHO. More fun to drive, but a bore to watch. NASCAR is about close racing, not about follow the leader. MadDAWG

>I won a race with a 1 inch margin there :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying Now you are starting to get it! MadDAWG

I refer to Martinsville as more of a complete farce than a race track Doug "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >I won a race with a 1 inch margin there :) > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > > Now you are starting to get it! > > MadDAWG > >

If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR sims being all ovals, what did you expect? It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be competitive :) "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6air2$cv30t$[email hidden]...

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> I refer to Martinsville as more of a complete farce than a race track > > Doug > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >I won a race with a 1 inch margin there :) > > > > > > -- > > > Olav K. Malmin > > > remove .spam when replying > > > > Now you are starting to get it! > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > >

"Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR simsbeing > all ovals, what did you expect? > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be competitive :) I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. I'm happy with the other 10% thanks Doug

Bristol,with realistic setup=thats FUN ;) pete "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss�:a6aet7$cnelc$[email hidden]... > I find this with all of the short ovals. > > 'tona, 'dega, Sears, Watkins and the addon road courses are fun - butevery > other track ( dover, darlington, etc etc etc et-bloody-c) drive me NUTS -I

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> cant STAND them no matter how much I try and enjoy them. > > Doug > > "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]... > > I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No > > matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment > > level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the > > wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a > > stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as

N3

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> > was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim, > but > > shouldn't it be fun as well? > > > > Rob > > > > > >

I guess it depends on what type or racing you grew up with and enjoy. I enjoy a good roadcourse and would love to see NASCAR use more road course but believe it or not, the ovals draw a much larger crowd, at least it seems like they do. "Olly Greenfield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7B3i8.2970$[email hidden]... > I think that roadcourses are just alot more fun anyways. It's not so mucha

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> shortcoming of N4 as it is of Nascar itself, IMHO. > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a6aet7$cnelc$[email hidden]... > > I find this with all of the short ovals. > > > > 'tona, 'dega, Sears, Watkins and the addon road courses are fun - but > every > > other track ( dover, darlington, etc etc etc et-bloody-c) drive me

NUTS -

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> I > > cant STAND them no matter how much I try and enjoy them. > > > > Doug > > > > "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]... > > > I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No > > > matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my

enjoyment > > > level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behindthe > > > wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never drivena > > > stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much funas > N3 > > > was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is asim,

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> > but > > > shouldn't it be fun as well? > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > >

Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the F1 race in Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in turn 1 and then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types of racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for fans. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]...

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> > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR sims > being > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be competitive

:)

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> > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > Doug > > >

Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they badge it nascar and people watch it. Obviosuly - thats just my opinion Doug "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the F1 racein > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in turn 1and

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> then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types of > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for fans. > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR sims > > being > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be

competitive

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> :) > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > Doug > > > > > > > >

Obviously. (-: "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]...

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> Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they badge it > nascar and people watch it. > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > Doug > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the F1

race

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> in > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in turn 1 > and > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types of > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for fans. > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR

sims

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> > > being > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > competitive > > :) > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

clearly :D Doug "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > Obviously. (-: > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they badgeit

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> > nascar and people watch it. > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > Doug > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the F1 > race > > in > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in turn

1

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> > and > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types of > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR > sims > > > > being > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > > competitive > > > :) > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to hear yourself compain? Nascar racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole track from the stands. Oval racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular. Road racing in any form is great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a small percentage of the racing action. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > clearly :D > > Doug > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > Obviously. (-: > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they badge > it > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the F1 > > race > > > in > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in turn > 1 > > > and > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types of > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR > > sims > > > > > being > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > > > competitive > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

in your opinion Doug "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to hearyourself compain? Nascar > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole trackfrom the stands. Oval > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular.Road racing in any form is > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see asmall percentage of the racing

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> action. > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > clearly :D > > > > Doug > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they

badge

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> > it > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the

F1 > > > race > > > > in > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck inturn > > 1 > > > > and > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all typesof > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining forfans.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about

NASCAR

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> > > sims > > > > > > being > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > > > > competitive > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]>, "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No >matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment >level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the >wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a >stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as N3 >was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim, but >shouldn't it be fun as well?

Why isn't it fun? Can you point to any specific reason(s)? If course, I realize it's hare to 'quantify' fun... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

N4 is great fun, everywhere and always. Just like N2002 :-) Achim "Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WW2i8.41876$[email hidden]... > I picked up N4 about 6 months ago and I'm now giving up on it. No > matter how long I practice, I never saw any huge change in my enjoyment > level. I got a little faster, but I just had to work harder behind the > wheel. I'm sure that N4 is very realistic, although I've never driven a > stock car. The real problem is that the sim is just not as much fun as N3 > was (or N99/2, N1 or ICR2 for that matter). I realise that N4 is a sim,but > shouldn't it be fun as well? > > Rob > >

That appears to be the general concensus. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]...

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> in your opinion > > Doug > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to hear > yourself compain? Nascar > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole track > from the stands. Oval > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular. > Road racing in any form is > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a > small percentage of the racing > > action. > > -- > > Biz > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular

structures,....and

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> > the....." - Ash > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > clearly :D > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they > badge > > > it > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch

the

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> F1 > > > > race > > > > > in > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in > turn > > > 1 > > > > > and > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all

types

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> of > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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> > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about > NASCAR > > > > sims > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > > > > > competitive > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:52:56 -0400, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. >I find it amusing the number of people that complain about NASCAR sims being >all ovals, what did you expect? >It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be competitive :) > I smell a flame war. Here's my 2 cents. I appreciate F1 for the simple fact that the cars are some of the most technologically advanced in the world, and the drivers amaze me with there lightning fast reflexes and are definetly the best in the world but... I watched the F1 race last weekend, and while I am amazed at the speeds, the driver skill, etc. there were basically only 2 battles/passes of any consequence in the whole damn race: when Schumacher passed for the lead and some other battle for around 4th or 5th where the announcers practically wet themselves that there was actually a race between 2 drivers (until one of them spun out). Quite frequently the camera shots of the action only had 1 car in the frame. I am not saying it was boring or I didn't like it, I just prefer a little more action. I personally like the action in NASCAR where the drivers race each other more than they race the track. Brian Oster

"Robert Upward" <[email hidden]> wrote in ... <snip> > I realise that N4 is a sim, but > shouldn't it be fun as well? Well, it's fun for me, but different people look for "fun" in different ways. Some enjoy the tension of being on the ragged edge, mastering a car that's on the verge of snapping sideways. Others just want to kick back and blast around the track. Since this is just a hobby, neither is inherently the "right" way. You just have to decide what gives you the most enjoyment. With that in mind, have you tried N4 with all of the driving aids on? Or in arcade mode? Yes, this makes it less of an accurate simulation, but it's *your* game, so feel free to play it *your* way. ...Klinn

>"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > I refer to Martinsville as more of a complete farce than a race track So you are basically refuting all the history of short-track racing in North America. <roll eyes> -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Oh I just see you are in the wrong NG, you must be looking for alt.iamajackass.whiner -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > in your opinion > > Doug > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to hear > yourself compain? Nascar > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole track > from the stands. Oval > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular. > Road racing in any form is > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a > small percentage of the racing > > action. > > -- > > Biz > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > clearly :D > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but they > badge > > > it > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch the > F1 > > > > race > > > > > in > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck in > turn > > > 1 > > > > > and > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all types > of > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining for > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about > NASCAR > > > > sims > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to be > > > > > competitive > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts about 12 million per race. Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of auto racing to watch. David G Fisher "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_g6i8.47015$[email hidden]...

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> That appears to be the general concensus. > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > > in your opinion > > > > Doug > > > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to hear > > yourself compain? Nascar > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole

track > > from the stands. Oval > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is sopopular.

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> > Road racing in any form is > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a > > small percentage of the racing > > > action. > > > -- > > > Biz > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > structures,....and > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > > clearly :D > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but

they

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> > badge > > > > it > > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to watch > the > > F1 > > > > > race > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big wreck

in

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> > turn > > > > 1 > > > > > > and > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all > types > > of > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining

for

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> > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message > > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play it. > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain about > > NASCAR > > > > > sims > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to

be

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> > > > > > competitive > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

David G Fisher wrote: > > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > about 12 million per race. > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > auto racing to watch. Of that 350 million, how many watch both? How many have the choice?

I didn't say people don't watch F1. Since F1 is a worldwide series and visits numerous countries I would be shocked to find out that they didn't attract that many viewers. I think it depends on what you were brought up with and what you enjoy. I would be willing to bet that if you took all the people in the countries that have and televise F1 and all the coutries that have and telivise NASCAR you'll find that per capita NASCAR is more popular or just as popular. I would be interested to see where there 350 million viewers come from, do you have the demographics on that. It appears to be very inflated. Hell, I could ask everyone I know or stand on the street and ask 1,000 people and only get a handful that watch F1. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]...

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> An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > about 12 million per race. > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > auto racing to watch. > > David G Fisher > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_g6i8.47015$[email hidden]... > > That appears to be the general concensus. > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > > > in your opinion > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to

hear

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> > > yourself compain? Nascar > > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole > track > > > from the stands. Oval > > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so > popular. > > > Road racing in any form is > > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see

a > > > small percentage of the racing > > > > action. > > > > -- > > > > Biz > > > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn'tunderstand

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> > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > > structures,....and > > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > > > clearly :D > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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> > > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but > they > > > badge > > > > > it > > > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to

watch > > the > > > F1 > > > > > > race > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 bigwreck

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> in > > > turn > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all > > types > > > of > > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining > for > > > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > message > > > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play

it. > > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complainabout

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> > > NASCAR > > > > > > sims > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to > be > > > > > > > competitive > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

NASCAR has been around a very long time. If the world was clamoring for it, they would of gotten it by now. Money, money, money. F1 is neck and neck with soccer in popularity. David G Fisher "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > > about 12 million per race. > > > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > > auto racing to watch. > > Of that 350 million, how many watch both? How many have the choice?

Next your going to tell us Soccer is exciting. Sure more people watch F1....it's either that or some BBC documentary on making cheese....or German program on personal hygene.... <end sarcasm> -- btgoss btgoss(my_shorts)@yahoo.com Remove my shorts to reply What you are is God's gift to you. What you make of it is your gift to God. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hh9i8.47557$[email hidden]... > I didn't say people don't watch F1. Since F1 is a worldwide series and > visits numerous countries I would be shocked to find out that they didn't > attract that many viewers. I think it depends on what you were brought up > with and what you enjoy. I would be willing to bet that if you took all the > people in the countries that have and televise F1 and all the coutries that > have and telivise NASCAR you'll find that per capita NASCAR is more popular > or just as popular. I would be interested to see where there 350 million > viewers come from, do you have the demographics on that. It appears to be > very inflated. Hell, I could ask everyone I know or stand on the street and > ask 1,000 people and only get a handful that watch F1. > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]... > > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > > about 12 million per race. > > > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > > auto racing to watch. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_g6i8.47015$[email hidden]... > > > That appears to be the general concensus. > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > > > > in your opinion > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to > hear > > > > yourself compain? Nascar > > > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole > > track > > > > from the stands. Oval > > > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so > > popular. > > > > Road racing in any form is > > > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see > a > > > > small percentage of the racing > > > > > action. > > > > > -- > > > > > Biz > > > > > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't > understand > > > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > > > structures,....and > > > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > > > > clearly :D > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message > > > > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but > > they > > > > badge > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to > watch > > > the > > > > F1 > > > > > > > race > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big > wreck > > in > > > > turn > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all > > > types > > > > of > > > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining > > for > > > > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > message > > > > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play > it. > > > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain > about > > > > NASCAR > > > > > > > sims > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to > > be > > > > > > > > competitive > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hh9i8.47557$[email hidden]... > I didn't say people don't watch F1. You said, "realistically it's not very entertaining for fans." People wouldn't be watching it if it weren't entertaining. You also agreed with the comment, "Nascar racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole track from the stands. Oval racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so popular. Road racing in any form is great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see a small percentage of the racing action." You then said it was the general concensus. It may be in this small thread, but I pointed out that world wide it's obviously not. >Since F1 is a worldwide series and > visits numerous countries I would be shocked to find out that they didn't > attract that many viewers. A lot of sports are world wide series but don't attract a fraction of the viewers of F1. >I think it depends on what you were brought up > with and what you enjoy. I would be willing to bet that if you took allthe > people in the countries that have and televise F1 and all the coutriesthat > have and telivise NASCAR you'll find that per capita NASCAR is morepopular > or just as popular. I would be interested to see where there 350 million > viewers come from, do you have the demographics on that. It appears to be > very inflated. About 250,000 viewers per F1 race are from the U.S. I don't have exact figures for Asia, Australia, South America, and Europe. > Hell, I could ask everyone I know or stand on the street and > ask 1,000 people and only get a handful that watch F1. I live in Southern NJ, and to be honest, I don't have one friend or family member who watches NASCAR. Last time someone I know talked about NASCAR around me was back in high school 17 years ago (Ricky Rudd fan). It's never talked about on one of the most listened to radio sports talk stations (WIP in Philadelphia) in the country. Guarantee that isn't the case in Europe. F1 is neck and neck in popularity with soccer worldwide. David G Fisher

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> "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]... > > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > > about 12 million per race. > > > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > > auto racing to watch. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_g6i8.47015$[email hidden]... > > > That appears to be the general concensus. > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > > > > in your opinion > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to > hear > > > > yourself compain? Nascar > > > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole > > track > > > > from the stands. Oval > > > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so > > popular. > > > > Road racing in any form is > > > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only

see

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> a > > > > small percentage of the racing > > > > > action. > > > > > -- > > > > > Biz > > > > > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't > understand > > > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > > > structures,....and > > > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > > > > clearly :D > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message > > > > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but > > they > > > > badge > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to > watch > > > the > > > > F1 > > > > > > > race > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 big > wreck > > in > > > > turn > > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy

all > > > types > > > > of > > > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not veryentertaining

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> > for > > > > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > message > > > > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play > it. > > > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complain > about > > > > NASCAR > > > > > > > sims > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it

to

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> > be > > > > > > > > competitive > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Been reading your back and forth with some smiles. You both have points of view with merits to both. Watch what you enjoy, but that doesn't require putting down the other forms of racing. I enjoy NASCAR since I can actually get to see it live..(I want to get to USGP eventually too..)..my favorite is sports car racing-living not that far from Elkhart Lake track . It's like to old Football, soccer, baseball argument that you hear all the time-somebody likes all of them and somebody thinks they are all boring. I have seen some very exciting F1 races and some very exciting NASCAR oval races. At the same time they both can be extremely boring - if someone gets way out front early and the race is basically over. This is the simulations forlum...you can try them all! **** "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles per second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that just the neatest thing?" -- Bob 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by Dick Schaap (quote approximate)

I think, as you say, it depends on what you're used to. I could ask the same thing but about F1 and NASCAR and most people over here (UK) wouldn't even have heard of NASCAR let alone know what it is or watch it. F1 on the other hand is very popular, it's shown on mainstream terrestial TV on a Sunday afternoon so nearly everyone knows what it is and many (even non fans) will watch it. I have nothing against NASCAR, I'll watch the occasional race if I'm having trouble sleeping <G> but I prefer F1, where every pass on track has to be fought for and I can follow the tactics. It seems to me, that NASCAR is about staying on the lead lap and hoping the FCY is thrown at the optimal moment :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hh9i8.47557$[email hidden]... > I didn't say people don't watch F1. Since F1 is a worldwide series and > visits numerous countries I would be shocked to find out that they didn't > attract that many viewers. I think it depends on what you were brought up > with and what you enjoy. I would be willing to bet that if you took all the > people in the countries that have and televise F1 and all the coutries that > have and telivise NASCAR you'll find that per capita NASCAR is more popular > or just as popular. I would be interested to see where there 350 million > viewers come from, do you have the demographics on that. It appears to be > very inflated. Hell, I could ask everyone I know or stand on the street and > ask 1,000 people and only get a handful that watch F1. > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jy9i8.146423$[email hidden]... > NASCAR has been around a very long time. If the world was clamoring forit, > they would of gotten it by now. Money, money, money. F1 is neck and neck > with soccer in popularity. > > David G Fisher > Plus ca change, plus c'est le meme chose...didn't we have this 'discussion' a few months ago? Only this time, with a twist - F1 is nowhere NEAR as popular as 'soccer'.

ymenard wrote: > > >"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I refer to Martinsville as more of a complete farce than a race track > > So you are basically refuting all the history of short-track racing in North > America. <roll eyes> Short tracks and road courses, it's where it's at maaaan I really have to stop watching those commercials on Animal Planet Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

David G Fisher wrote: > > NASCAR has been around a very long time. If the world was clamoring for it, > they would of gotten it by now. Money, money, money. F1 is neck and neck > with soccer in popularity. No, F1 is a load of hype that has stifled other, better, forms of motorsport. It's loved by the great 'unwashed' in the same way crap, superficial popular music is. Something being 'popular' doesn't imply quality. BTW, WTF is 'soccer'? You must mean football. It's called football because the outfield players control the ball using their feet, only using their hands to throw the ball back into player. Goalkeepers, on the other hand.........

David G Fisher wrote: > F1 is neck and neck in popularity with soccer worldwide. Dream on, F1 is a minnow next to 'the beautiful game'. FOOTBALL, has a much more fanatical following too. I mean, in some countries animals are even sacrificed to aid a teams victory! Supporting a football team is NOTHING like being a MS fan. As usual, David, your comments are as worthless as you are clueless. Yours sneeringly GDA

In N4 I must say I enjoy many different types of tracks.. The Glen, Indy, Pocono, Daytona/Dega, Rockingham, Texas, Dover, Atlanta, Lowes, Homestead, Michigan, Silverstone, Phoenix and N Hampshire are probably those I enjoy the most... While Martinsville (used to be one of my favorites in N2), Sears Point (It cannot be that bad?? I mean I'm getting seasick !) and Darlington (completely ruined by the wallriding "fix") are among those i dislike the most. -- ed_

I see you swallow Bernies TV-figures raw Dave :-) Pehaps you're one of the... what was is .. 17 billion people that follow F1 yeah year..... Damn I could swear there's not much more than 7 billion of us on this planet.... but parhaps they're counting aliens too? :-) -- ed_

There's 54 billion. :-) http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html The 350 million per race figure doesn't just come from Ecclestone. The advertisers and engine manufacturers who pump hundreds of millions of dollars ($210 million per year from Honda for example) into the sport won't just take his word for it. Before they invest that amount of money, they check, and re-check, and re-check, and........ David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:22ei8.6631$[email hidden]... > I see you swallow Bernies TV-figures raw Dave :-) > > Pehaps you're one of the... what was is .. 17 billion people that followF1

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> yeah year..... > > Damn I could swear there's not much more than 7 billion of us on this > planet.... but parhaps they're counting aliens too? > > :-) > > -- > ed_ > >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]>... > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > about 12 million per race. 350 million?!? Do that many people in the entire world own a TV and get a station that F1 is broadcast on? That's larger than the entire population of all but a handful of countries. Jason

It's broadcast in over 200 countries. David G Fisher "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]>...

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> > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > > about 12 million per race. > > 350 million?!? > > Do that many people in the entire world own a TV and get a station > that F1 is broadcast on? That's larger than the entire population of > all but a handful of countries. > > Jason >

Here's a couple of links I dug up real quick regarding F1 viewership. http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/03/01/racing.F1/ http://home.worldnet.fr/~spurgeon/malay.HTM http://www.hire-speed.com/web/f1/f1.htm http://www.fia.com/PRESSE/F1-a/25-02-97.htm From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris (Mar '97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped) in 202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or half the world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event, soccer's World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smaller than the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilished as the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president. David G Fisher "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]>...

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> > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > > about 12 million per race. > > 350 million?!? > > Do that many people in the entire world own a TV and get a station > that F1 is broadcast on? That's larger than the entire population of > all but a handful of countries. > > Jason >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dlii8.152101$[email hidden]... > From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html > The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris (Mar > '97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped) in > 202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or half the > world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event,soccer's > World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smaller than > the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilished as > the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president. > > David G Fisher That's hust the World Cup, though, one event. You said 'soccer'. I say it again, F1 (popular though it is) is nowhere NEAR as popular as football.

We're talking about leagues or organizations such as NASCAR, CART, NFL, NBA, NHL, MLBA, College Football, etc. and comparing them to F1. F1 crushes them all. If you take every single soccer match from all the various leagues throughout the world and total their viewership, I guess it outdraws F1 but that's an apple and oranges comparison. That we even have to go to that type of comparison makes it clear that F1, like I said, runs neck and neck with football/soccer in world wide popularity. Is there a single football league/organization anywhere in the world that has viewership like F1? The World Cup comparison is about the best I can think of and probably why it's often used in comparisons to F1. If anything, the World Cup should attract more viewers than an F1 season total because it doesn't happen every year, and there are more matches in the World Cup than there are F1 races in a season. BTW, according to this more recent article http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html than the one below, F1 total viewership is up to 54 billion per year from 41 in '96. David G Fisher "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:D8ki8.723$[email hidden]... > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dlii8.152101$[email hidden]... > > From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html > > The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris(Mar > > '97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped)in > > 202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or halfthe > > world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event, > soccer's > > World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smallerthan > > the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilishedas

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> > the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president. > > > > David G Fisher > > That's hust the World Cup, though, one event. You said 'soccer'. I say it > again, F1 (popular though it is) is nowhere NEAR as popular as football. > >

But how many people have the ability to watch F1 races vs. how many people have the ability to watch Nascar racing? It seems to me that here in God's country, we are perfectly happy with Nascar Racing. It's those from outside for the most part that are trying to tell us we shouldn't be. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UV8i8.145271$[email hidden]...

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> An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race attracts > about 12 million per race. > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing form of > auto racing to watch. > > David G Fisher > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_g6i8.47015$[email hidden]... > > That appears to be the general concensus. > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a6aq94$d4v32$[email hidden]... > > > in your opinion > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:cP5i8.22080$[email hidden]... > > > > Any type of racing you do find acceptable or do you just like to

hear

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> > > yourself compain? Nascar > > > > racing is a good fan sport, close racing and you can see the whole > track > > > from the stands. Oval > > > > racing is great for watching as a spectator, thats why it is so > popular. > > > Road racing in any form is > > > > great but its not a good spectator sport, as typcially you only see

a > > > small percentage of the racing > > > > action. > > > > -- > > > > Biz > > > > > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn'tunderstand

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> > > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > > structures,....and > > > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Ellison <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:a6ao29$cr0ad$[email hidden]... > > > > > clearly :D > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:gh5i8.47005$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Obviously. (-: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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> > > > > > news:a6amvd$cnnap$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Nor's 40 tanks trundling round a half mile of concrete - but > they > > > badge > > > > > it > > > > > > > nascar and people watch it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obviosuly - thats just my opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:w_4i8.46989$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Of course that just your opinion. I found it amusing to

watch > > the > > > F1 > > > > > > race > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > Australia last weekend. What do people get out of 1 bigwreck

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> in > > > turn > > > > > 1 > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > then 1 car runs away from the rest of the field. I enjoy all > > types > > > of > > > > > > > > racing, even F1 but realistically it's not very entertaining > for > > > fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > message > > > > > > > > news:a6ajfc$cvm0i$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > news:Te4i8.27976$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > If you don't like NASCAR style racing then don't play

it. > > > > > > > > > > I find it amusing the number of people that complainabout

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> > > NASCAR > > > > > > sims > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > all ovals, what did you expect? > > > > > > > > > > It would be like watching an F1 race and expecting it to > be > > > > > > > competitive > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm saying 90% of Nascar's shit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy with the other 10% thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Explains why it does so poorly here in the US then. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jy9i8.146423$[email hidden]... > NASCAR has been around a very long time. If the world was clamoring forit,

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> they would of gotten it by now. Money, money, money. F1 is neck and neck > with soccer in popularity. > > David G Fisher > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > An F1 race attracts 350 million viewers per race. A NASCAR race

attracts > > > about 12 million per race. > > > > > > Seems to me that people find F1 an overwhelmingly more excitiing formof > > > auto racing to watch. > > > > Of that 350 million, how many watch both? How many have the choice? > >

>According to figures released by Formula One Management, Guess that says it all, inflate figures to help support your organizations fund raising activities. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6vli8.7164$[email hidden]... > We're talking about leagues or organizations such as NASCAR, CART, NFL, NBA, > NHL, MLBA, College Football, etc. and comparing them to F1. F1 crushes them > all. > > If you take every single soccer match from all the various leagues > throughout the world and total their viewership, I guess it outdraws F1 but > that's an apple and oranges comparison. That we even have to go to that type > of comparison makes it clear that F1, like I said, runs neck and neck with > football/soccer in world wide popularity. > > Is there a single football league/organization anywhere in the world that > has viewership like F1? > > The World Cup comparison is about the best I can think of and probably why > it's often used in comparisons to F1. If anything, the World Cup should > attract more viewers than an F1 season total because it doesn't happen every > year, and there are more matches in the World Cup than there are F1 races in > a season. > > BTW, according to this more recent article > http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html > than the one below, F1 total viewership is up to 54 billion per year from 41 > in '96. > > David G Fisher > > "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:D8ki8.723$[email hidden]... > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:dlii8.152101$[email hidden]... > > > From this article: http://www.formeleins.de/f118cost.html > > > The FIA released the figures for the F1 television audience in Paris > (Mar > > > '97). The 16 Formula One events in '96 were broadcast, (live or taped) > in > > > 202 countries with an average audience of 2.5 billion viewers, or half > the > > > world's population. In comparison, another popular worldwide event, > > soccer's > > > World Cup, garnered an audience of 32 billion, or 30 percent smaller > than > > > the F1 circuit's 41 billion total. "Formula One is securely stabilished > as > > > the number one television event" declared Max Mosley, FIA president. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > That's hust the World Cup, though, one event. You said 'soccer'. I say it > > again, F1 (popular though it is) is nowhere NEAR as popular as football. > > > > > >

What I dont get is this fasinations with TV-ratings Dave got... I mean seriously... we all know they're more or less just wild guesses based on relativly few control-measurments. It's also figures that's been brought forward by people thats connected to the sport - one way or the other. Anyway... just because there's a lot of people watching it - dont mean it's any good.... -- ed_

It's not a fascination. I give facts and figures because they mean a whole lot more than feelings and perceptions when discusssing a sport's popularity. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:t0yi8.7208$[email hidden]... > What I dont get is this fasinations with TV-ratings Dave got... > > I mean seriously... we all know they're more or less just wild guessesbased > on relativly few control-measurments. It's also figures that's beenbrought > forward by people thats connected to the sport - one way or the other. > > Anyway... just because there's a lot of people watching it - dont meanit's

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> any good.... > > -- > ed_ > > >

David G Fisher wrote: > It's not a fascination. I give facts and figures because they mean a whole > lot more than feelings and perceptions when discusssing a sport's > popularity. Such figures are not very valid when they are skewed in the financial interests of those who release the figures. More viewers=more advertising $$. -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

In article <3c8a0731$[email hidden]>, "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> writes: >But how many people have the ability to watch F1 races vs. how many people >have the ability to watch Nascar racing? It seems to me that here in God's >country, we are perfectly happy with Nascar Racing. It's those from outside >for the most part that are trying to tell us we shouldn't be. How did you come to that conclusion from David's argument? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <nRfi8.15556$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >There's 54 billion. :-) >http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html >Quoted:"This figure, which amounts to nearly ten times the world population, was calculated based on the number of times that any viewer watched any F1 footage, either during any Grand Prix session or in any other kind of program. " So if someone sees a 20-second highlight replay on SportsCenter, that counts? Um, that's weak...<g> >The 350 million per race figure doesn't just come from Ecclestone. The >advertisers and engine manufacturers who pump hundreds of millions of >dollars ($210 million per year from Honda for example) into the sport won't >just take his word for it. Before they invest that amount of money, they >check, and re-check, and re-check, and..... Did they come up with this figure by the same method as above? What website was that on again? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> In article <nRfi8.15556$[email hidden]>, "David G > Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >>There's 54 billion. :-) >>http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html >> >> > Quoted:"This figure, which amounts to nearly ten times the world population, > was calculated based on the number of times that any viewer watched any F1 > footage, either during any Grand Prix session or in any other kind of program. > " > > So if someone sees a 20-second highlight replay on SportsCenter, that counts? > Um, that's weak...<g>

Like I said, figures skewed for the financial gain of those involved. Truth would only get in the way of that. :-P -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <nRfi8.15556$[email hidden]>, "David G > Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >There's 54 billion. :-) > >http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/02/s8546.html > > > Quoted:"This figure, which amounts to nearly ten times the world

population, > was calculated based on the number of times that any viewer watched any F1 > footage, either during any Grand Prix session or in any other kind ofprogram. > " > > So if someone sees a 20-second highlight replay on SportsCenter, thatcounts? > Um, that's weak...<g> Other sporting organizations and media use that statistic, so F1 does as well. Shouldn't they? > >The 350 million per race figure doesn't just come from Ecclestone. The > >advertisers and engine manufacturers who pump hundreds of millions of > >dollars ($210 million per year from Honda for example) into the sportwon't > >just take his word for it. Before they invest that amount of money, they > >check, and re-check, and re-check, and..... > > Did they come up with this figure by the same method as above? Whatwebsite > was that on again? The 300+ million per race is simply viewers who tune into either the live or recorded race. That figure can be found in endless articles by a search on the web. http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/03/01/racing.F1/ http://home.worldnet.fr/~spurgeon/malay.HTM The companies who spend hundreds of millions of dollars in sponshorship and advertising don't just take Ecclestone's word for it when it comes to viewership. I'd love to see the people who doubt these figures show me a bunch of articles on the web that give evidence that these figures are completely bogus. They must exist, right? Davids G Fisher

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > It's not a fascination. I give facts and figures because they mean awhole

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> > lot more than feelings and perceptions when discusssing a sport's > > popularity. > > > Such figures are not very valid when they are skewed in the financial > interests of those who release the figures. More viewers=more > advertising $$.

So you think the companies who invest hundreds of millions in sponsorship (like Honda who invests 210 million per year) don't do a little investigating inot the ratings before they write those checks? Can you show me some articles on the web which expose F1's lies about viewership? If they do lie, I'm sure there must be a lot of articles which give evidence. David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote: > The companies who spend hundreds of millions of dollars in sponshorship and > advertising don't just take Ecclestone's word for it when it comes to > viewership. I'd love to see the people who doubt these figures show me a > bunch of articles on the web that give evidence that these figures are > completely bogus. They must exist, right? Bunch of articles on F1 viewership available, perhaps. But they are all reflecting the figures of just one source, like a flock of parrots. Not real valid IMHO. That source still has a large self-interest in inflated figures. -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

David G Fisher wrote:

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> "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>David G Fisher wrote: >> >>>It's not a fascination. I give facts and figures because they mean a >>> > whole > >>>lot more than feelings and perceptions when discusssing a sport's >>>popularity. >>> >> >>Such figures are not very valid when they are skewed in the financial >>interests of those who release the figures. More viewers=more >>advertising $$. >> > > So you think the companies who invest hundreds of millions in sponsorship > (like Honda who invests 210 million per year) don't do a little > investigating inot the ratings before they write those checks? > > Can you show me some articles on the web which expose F1's lies about > viewership? If they do lie, I'm sure there must be a lot of articles which > give evidence. > > David G Fisher

Oops. See reply in other post. <g> -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

"EldredP" worte: > So if someone sees a 20-second highlight replay on SportsCenter, thatcounts? > Um, that's weak...<g> Even worse: Think of all those who's channel-hopping! :-) -- ed_

"EldredP" worte: Even worse: Think of all those who's channel-hopping! :-) -- ed_

In article <SSOi8.410624$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> So if someone sees a 20-second highlight replay on SportsCenter, that >counts? >> Um, that's weak...<g> > >Other sporting organizations and media use that statistic, so F1 does as >well. Shouldn't they? >

They do??? Well, I'd say the same thing for those other sports, too. I consider that artificially 'padding' the numbers, whether it's F1, baseball, football, etc...<g>

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> >The 300+ million per race is simply viewers who tune into either the live or >recorded race. That figure can be found in endless articles by a search on >the web. > >http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/03/01/racing.F1/ > >http://home.worldnet.fr/~spurgeon/malay.HTM > >The companies who spend hundreds of millions of dollars in sponshorship and >advertising don't just take Ecclestone's word for it when it comes to >viewership. I'd love to see the people who doubt these figures show me a >bunch of articles on the web that give evidence that these figures are >completely bogus. They must exist, right?

Honestly, I have *no* idea. No, I believe they wouldn't just take his word for it. I just wanted to read the article(s)... Those two just throw out a figure, but they don't really explain how they determined it. I wish there was a way to know how many people actually watched a RACE, as opposed to seeing a film clip somewhere... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.