coca cola track

just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on the coca cola track, and I got to wondering; do you think that if they were to really build something like that we would see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds?

>"jon " <[email hidden]> wrote > do you think that if they were to really build something like that wewould > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? NASCAR would run such track with restrictor plates, anyway so that wouldn't be true. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard, do you think with the advent of new safety equipment, and the black boxes, for more study and safety info, that one day we may see Nascar experiment with some racing without restrictor plates at superspeedways? "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zU_c8.18622$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >"jon " <[email hidden]> wrote > > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we > would > > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > > > NASCAR would run such track with restrictor plates, anyway so that

wouldn't

Quoted text (15 lines)

> be true. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > >

the stands would have to be set far back and how much of the track would they be able to see. Just seems to me that it would not be a good race to go see in person. If the line the track with grand stands then NASCAR will slap the restrictor plates on anyway. To answer your question I don't think you would see any more fatal accidents then the other SS. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a51siu$h2$[email hidden]... > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on the coca > cola track, and I got to wondering; > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we would > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > >

I seen somewhere awhile back that the insurance companies have put a cap of 200mph. If the cars go over that they won't insure the tracks. As we all know NASCAR's primary goal is coving its own ass so I don't thin we will ever see it again. MaDAWG

jon wrote: > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on the coca > cola track, and I got to wondering; > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we would > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? Even if they did get rid of the plates (as others have indicated-a cold day in hell), the G-forces in those high banks have got to be unreal. You'd have crashes everywhere from drivers blacking out... John DiFool

"GLeger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Lp1d8.134555$[email hidden]... > ymenard, do you think with the advent of new safety equipment, and theblack > boxes, for more study and safety info, that one day we may see Nascar > experiment with some racing without restrictor plates at superspeedways? I seriously doubt we will see any movement in that direction. Eventually, you will see tracks like Daytona and Talladega get flattened, perhaps not as flat as Pocono but certainly way less than now, this would then require the cars to brake for the turns and that would do several things: Lower the overall speeds, spread the field, reduce the risk of the Big One type wreck. dave henrie

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:33:30 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Big One type wreck. >dave henrie the 'Big One', is that a term for a major wreck with many cars involved, or a big wreck at turn One? Andre

Maybe, but fwiw, the safety stuff done/plates on the SS weren't done only for driver safety. That was a secondary concern. They were done for fan safety, to help prevent the cars from going into the stands again. -John "GLeger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Lp1d8.134555$[email hidden]... > ymenard, do you think with the advent of new safety equipment, and theblack

Quoted text (31 lines)

> boxes, for more study and safety info, that one day we may see Nascar > experiment with some racing without restrictor plates at superspeedways? > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zU_c8.18622$[email hidden]... > > >"jon " <[email hidden]> wrote > > > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we > > would > > > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > > > > > > NASCAR would run such track with restrictor plates, anyway so that > wouldn't > > be true. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > >

The former. -John "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:33:30 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Big One type wreck. > >dave henrie > > > the 'Big One', is that a term for a major wreck with many cars > involved, or a big wreck at turn One? > > Andre >

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:01:38 -0700, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Maybe, but fwiw, the safety stuff done/plates on the SS weren't done only >for driver safety. That was a secondary concern. > They were done for fan safety, to help prevent the cars from going into >the stands again. > >-John 'again'? Oops.. :-/ Andre

I didn't even think about that. Reminds me of a show I saw on Discovery channel about fighter pilots; they said testing had shown that women tolerate the effects of g-forces slightly better than men. Maybe we would see a field of 20-30 women and one man racing :) John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > jon wrote: > > > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on thecoca > > cola track, and I got to wondering; > > do you think that if they were to really build something like that wewould > > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > > Even if they did get rid of the plates (as others have indicated-acold > day in hell), the G-forces in those high banks have got to be unreal.You'd > have crashes everywhere from drivers blacking out... > > John DiFool > >

John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Maybe, but fwiw, the safety stuff done/plates on the SS weren't doneonly > for driver safety. That was a secondary concern. > They were done for fan safety, to help prevent the cars from going into > the stands again. > > -John I agree, wasn't it Bobby Allison that nearly ended up in the stands just before we got the plates? That and BE lapping the SS's at 210+. Yes, we could see SS racing without plates, we see it now in the CTS (and those trucks sound AWESOME since they can breathe). For the Cup boys to get to that point they will need to stand up the grill and stand up and enlarge the greenhouse area of the cars. Smaller carbs don't work (proven, they tried that before the plates), and engine displacement isn't going anywhere. Knocking down the banking is cost prohibitive and would mean new grandstands most likely as well. That leaves pretty much what they are doing, restrictor plates and aero trickery. Maybe they could try small drogue shoots like on supersonic aircraft and the space shuttle? :) That would keep guys from charging up from behind and shoving air up under the guy in front... How about air-robbery? They did that to the trucks last week at Daytona, made them unhook 1 of the 2 intake hoses for air to the carb since they were going too fast. Knocked the speed down considerably during the race.

:) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence for a couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. Only thing that prevented multiple fan deaths was sheer luck.........there should have been some, junk was flying everywhere, let alone the car itself. That's what I remember anyway. And after Allison dropped back to the track, he got slammed into by another car.........he was lucky too. -John "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:01:38 -0700, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Maybe, but fwiw, the safety stuff done/plates on the SS weren't doneonly

Quoted text (9 lines)

> >for driver safety. That was a secondary concern. > > They were done for fan safety, to help prevent the cars from going into > >the stands again. > > > >-John > > 'again'? Oops.. :-/ > > Andre

Actually, Bristol has the most g-force effect. Some guys strap their helmets on the side to help, or at least used to. The SS aren't that bad. -John "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a5349j$g0c$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (28 lines)

> I didn't even think about that. Reminds me of a show I saw on Discovery > channel about fighter pilots; they said testing had shown that women > tolerate the effects of g-forces slightly better than men. Maybe we would > see a field of 20-30 women and one man racing :) > > > John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > jon wrote: > > > > > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on the > coca > > > cola track, and I got to wondering; > > > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we > would > > > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > > > > Even if they did get rid of the plates (as others have indicated-a > cold > > day in hell), the G-forces in those high banks have got to be unreal. > You'd > > have crashes everywhere from drivers blacking out... > > > > John DiFool > > > > > >

Yep. They _could_ do something if they really wanted to, but there's lots of politics involved, especially now that Nascar's cool. Petty said a long time ago that Nascar was making a big mistake allowing the cars to have air dams and spoilers.............looks like he was right. -John "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9jbd8.26433$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > > I agree, wasn't it Bobby Allison that nearly ended up in the stands just > before we got the plates? That and BE lapping the SS's at 210+. > > Yes, we could see SS racing without plates, we see it now in the CTS (and > those trucks sound AWESOME since they can breathe). For the Cup boys to

get > to that point they will need to stand up the grill and stand up andenlarge > the greenhouse area of the cars. Smaller carbs don't work (proven, they > tried that before the plates), and engine displacement isn't goinganywhere. > Knocking down the banking is cost prohibitive and would mean newgrandstands > most likely as well. That leaves pretty much what they are doing,restrictor > plates and aero trickery. > > Maybe they could try small drogue shoots like on supersonic aircraft andthe > space shuttle? :) That would keep guys from charging up from behind and > shoving air up under the guy in front... > > How about air-robbery? They did that to the trucks last week at Daytona, > made them unhook 1 of the 2 intake hoses for air to the carb since theywere > going too fast. Knocked the speed down considerably during the race. > >

I think he ment if NASCAR had a 3 mile 36 degree banked superspeedway that the G's might be too much.. On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:08:16 -0700, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (38 lines)

> Actually, Bristol has the most g-force effect. Some guys strap their >helmets on the side to help, or at least used to. The SS aren't that bad. > >-John > > >"jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:a5349j$g0c$[email hidden]... >> I didn't even think about that. Reminds me of a show I saw on Discovery >> channel about fighter pilots; they said testing had shown that women >> tolerate the effects of g-forces slightly better than men. Maybe we would >> see a field of 20-30 women and one man racing :) >> >> >> John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > jon wrote: >> > >> > > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on the >> coca >> > > cola track, and I got to wondering; >> > > do you think that if they were to really build something like that we >> would >> > > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? >> > >> > Even if they did get rid of the plates (as others have indicated-a >> cold >> > day in hell), the G-forces in those high banks have got to be unreal. >> You'd >> > have crashes everywhere from drivers blacking out... >> > >> > John DiFool >> > >> > >> >> > >

John: Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards the infield. At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got turned around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity - the rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath it and with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's nose whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch fence. It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to Doyle Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a top the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They flew downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appear with the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car from flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (including one woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had come THIS close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars down immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape somewhere, and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while you could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates so long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. Bob Mina Philadelphia, PA "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence fora > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track.

Thanks Bob, good details! That's what I remember more than anything; how slow his car appeard to lift off the ground.........almost graceful like if you will. -John "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> John: > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards the > infield. > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got turned > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity -

the > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath itand

Quoted text (8 lines)

> with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's nose > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > fence. > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to Doyle > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a top > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They

flew > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appearwith > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car from > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (includingone > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had comeTHIS

Quoted text (20 lines)

> close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars down > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape somewhere, > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while you > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates so > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > Bob Mina > Philadelphia, PA > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence

for > a > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > >

Now I bet that was one HELL of a ride. Bob Mina <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> John: > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards the > infield. > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got turned > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity -

the > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath itand

Quoted text (8 lines)

> with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's nose > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > fence. > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to Doyle > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a top > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They

flew > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appearwith > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car from > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (includingone > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had comeTHIS

Quoted text (20 lines)

> close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars down > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape somewhere, > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while you > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates so > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > Bob Mina > Philadelphia, PA > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence

for > a > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > >

And the same thing happened to Geoff Bodine at Daytona in a truck race running at speeds slower than today's cup cars. The plates/speed have little to do with it. The current cars running plates are safer due to improved fences and the use of the flaps, not because they are going slower. Also remember that most of these accidents before involved one car, where as now you get 10-20 involved. "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> John: > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards the > infield. > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got turned > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity -

the > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath itand

Quoted text (8 lines)

> with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's nose > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > fence. > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to Doyle > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a top > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They

flew > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appearwith > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car from > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (includingone > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had comeTHIS

Quoted text (20 lines)

> close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars down > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape somewhere, > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while you > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates so > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > Bob Mina > Philadelphia, PA > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence

for > a > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > >

Indeed. Allison was a bit shook, but in great physical shape considering what he'd been through - not a scratch, just a sore neck from the second hit when Phil Parsons planted himself in Bobby's right side. Now Earnhardt? He was another story all together, even though he'd had nothing to do with it. During the Red Flag to fix the fence (almost 2 hours from which ESPN never left - ahh, the days!) when they interviewed Earnhardt, he was as out-there as I'd ever seen him. You could tell he was replaying the scene in his mind, and even lamented "If I had it to do over again, I'd try to get 'im in the nose and keep him from takin' off like that..." Could you imagine what he had time to think? With a race-driver's mind already operating at such a high level, Dale probably had time to think "Holy Sh*t - he's going over the fence...." knowing that there was nothing he could do but watch while Allison's car flew away. When the race restarted, guess who went on to get his first win as a Rookie? Davey Allison - turning his last laps at dusk in the 209mph range. It was quite a day - I wish I could find the tape! Bob "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a53lj4$jkg$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Now I bet that was one HELL of a ride. > > > Bob Mina <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message > news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]... > > John: > > > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards

the > > infield. > > > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he gotturned > > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity - > the > > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath it > and > > with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it'snose > > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > > fence. > > > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting toDoyle > > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like atop

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They > flew > > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appear > with > > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car

from > > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (including > one > > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had come > THIS > > close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the carsdown > > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tapesomewhere, > > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it whileyou > > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the platesso

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > > > Bob Mina > > Philadelphia, PA > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a

tire

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence > for > > a > > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > > > > > >

John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yep. They _could_ do something if they really wanted to, but there'slots > of politics involved, especially now that Nascar's cool. Petty said along > time ago that Nascar was making a big mistake allowing the cars to haveair > dams and spoilers.............looks like he was right. > > -John > That's why they call him the King! hehe. How prophetic that statement has become...

If you find that tape. I need a sound bit from Darrell Waltrip. During the break he was interviewed, as he was one of the cars that went under Bobby during that flip. It was one of the funniest things he ever said. The reporter asked him what he saw, and Darrell answered with "well when I opened my eyes it was over." or "I was in turn one". Can't remember the exact quote, but do remember it was really funny. -- btgoss btgoss(my_shorts)@yahoo.com Remove my shorts to reply What you are is God's gift to you. What you make of it is your gift to God. "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53puc$4eram$[email hidden]... > Indeed. Allison was a bit shook, but in great physical shape considering > what he'd been through - not a scratch, just a sore neck from the second hit > when Phil Parsons planted himself in Bobby's right side. > > Now Earnhardt? He was another story all together, even though he'd had > nothing to do with it. During the Red Flag to fix the fence (almost 2 hours > from which ESPN never left - ahh, the days!) when they interviewed > Earnhardt, he was as out-there as I'd ever seen him. > > You could tell he was replaying the scene in his mind, and even lamented "If > I had it to do over again, I'd try to get 'im in the nose and keep him from > takin' off like that..." Could you imagine what he had time to think? With > a race-driver's mind already operating at such a high level, Dale probably > had time to think "Holy Sh*t - he's going over the fence...." knowing that > there was nothing he could do but watch while Allison's car flew away. > > When the race restarted, guess who went on to get his first win as a Rookie? > Davey Allison - turning his last laps at dusk in the 209mph range. It was > quite a day - I wish I could find the tape! > > Bob > > > "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a53lj4$jkg$[email hidden]... > > Now I bet that was one HELL of a ride. > > > > > > Bob Mina <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message > > news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]... > > > John: > > > > > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > > > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > > > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > > > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > > > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards > the > > > infield. > > > > > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got > turned > > > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity - > > the > > > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath it > > and > > > with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's > nose > > > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > > > fence. > > > > > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to > Doyle > > > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a > top > > > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > > > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They > > flew > > > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > > > > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appear > > with > > > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > > > > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > > > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car > from > > > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (including > > one > > > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had come > > THIS > > > close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars > down > > > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > > > > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape > somewhere, > > > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while > you > > > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > > > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > > > > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates > so > > > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > > > > > Bob Mina > > > Philadelphia, PA > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a > tire > > > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence > > for > > > a > > > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > > > > > > > > > > > >

I wonder if roof flaps would have prevented Bobby from getting airborn like that. Not to mention todays cars are much more aerodynamic than they were back then. Scott PA-Scott "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53puc$4eram$[email hidden]... > Indeed. Allison was a bit shook, but in great physical shape considering > what he'd been through - not a scratch, just a sore neck from the secondhit > when Phil Parsons planted himself in Bobby's right side. > > Now Earnhardt? He was another story all together, even though he'd had > nothing to do with it. During the Red Flag to fix the fence (almost 2hours > from which ESPN never left - ahh, the days!) when they interviewed > Earnhardt, he was as out-there as I'd ever seen him. > > You could tell he was replaying the scene in his mind, and even lamented"If > I had it to do over again, I'd try to get 'im in the nose and keep himfrom > takin' off like that..." Could you imagine what he had time to think?With > a race-driver's mind already operating at such a high level, Dale probably > had time to think "Holy Sh*t - he's going over the fence...." knowing that > there was nothing he could do but watch while Allison's car flew away. > > When the race restarted, guess who went on to get his first win as aRookie?

Quoted text (17 lines)

> Davey Allison - turning his last laps at dusk in the 209mph range. It was > quite a day - I wish I could find the tape! > > Bob > > > "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a53lj4$jkg$[email hidden]... > > Now I bet that was one HELL of a ride. > > > > > > Bob Mina <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message > > news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]... > > > John: > > > > > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > > > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place

(just > > > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to havebeen > > > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as hewas

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards > the > > > infield. > > > > > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got > turned > > > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough

velocity - > > the > > > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneathit > > and > > > with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's > nose > > > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to thecatch

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > fence. > > > > > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to > Doyle > > > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a > top > > > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from

the > > > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They > > flew > > > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > > > > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, thenre-appear > > with > > > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > > > > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the'catch > > > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car > from > > > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris(including

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > one > > > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had come > > THIS > > > close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars > down > > > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > > > > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape > somewhere, > > > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while > you > > > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the

only > > > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > > > > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates > so > > > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it stillaround.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > > > > > Bob Mina > > > Philadelphia, PA > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a > tire > > > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got

airborne.......completely > > > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of thefence

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > for > > > a > > > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > > > > > > > > > > > >

Schooner <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Lzdd8.17574$[email hidden]... > And the same thing happened to Geoff Bodine at Daytona in a truck race > running at speeds slower than today's cup cars. The plates/speed have > little to do with it. The current cars running plates are safer due to > improved fences and the use of the flaps, not because they are goingslower. > Also remember that most of these accidents before involved one car, whereas > now you get 10-20 involved. > While there is truth in your comment about GB's truck wreck, his was not necessarily due to an aero issue. First, the trucks run SS's pretty dang fast, they had to disconnect an air intake hose THIS year to slow them below 190 at Daytona. So they are going about as fast as the cup cars, they're just doing so without plates. No, GB's deal was caused by an almost open wheel like incident where his front wheel went into the fender of another truck behind the front tire but in front of the firewall and rode that truck's front tire up and over the top allowing air to get under the truck and happend to be right beside the catch fence at the time. There are 'bodine' bars in that area in front of the firewalls now to prevent such things from occuring again. Freak accident likely never to happen again IMHO. BA's, deal was definetly speed/aero related. His scene would be played over and over again even with roof flaps if today's cars ran unrestricted at the SS's. We're having less 'blowovers' due to slower speeds which are created by the current plate rules (and the roof air deflector flaps). Since NASCAR purposely started keeping the speeds below 200, blowovers have been freakish wrecks rather than single car spins that resulted in takeoff. I think speed has everything to do with it.

They could make them run on skinny tires with a harder compound. Less grip would translate to lower speeds into and out of the turns. The engines aren't making signifigantly more hp than the old days, the cars are just much better at making use of it. Of course all this aero tinkering makes for a good soap opera... Gerald "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<9jbd8.26433$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > I agree, wasn't it Bobby Allison that nearly ended up in the stands just > before we got the plates? That and BE lapping the SS's at 210+. > > Yes, we could see SS racing without plates, we see it now in the CTS (and > those trucks sound AWESOME since they can breathe). For the Cup boys to get > to that point they will need to stand up the grill and stand up and enlarge > the greenhouse area of the cars. Smaller carbs don't work (proven, they > tried that before the plates), and engine displacement isn't going anywhere. > Knocking down the banking is cost prohibitive and would mean new grandstands > most likely as well. That leaves pretty much what they are doing, restrictor > plates and aero trickery. > > Maybe they could try small drogue shoots like on supersonic aircraft and the > space shuttle? :) That would keep guys from charging up from behind and > shoving air up under the guy in front... > > How about air-robbery? They did that to the trucks last week at Daytona, > made them unhook 1 of the 2 intake hoses for air to the carb since they were > going too fast. Knocked the speed down considerably during the race.

I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since it was a blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually because they've been hit and/or hit someone. Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still possible IMO, just not as easily. -John "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A2ed8.505$[email hidden]... > I wonder if roof flaps would have prevented Bobby from getting airbornlike

Quoted text (10 lines)

> that. Not to mention todays cars are much more aerodynamic than they were > back then. > > Scott > PA-Scott > > > "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message > news:a53puc$4eram$[email hidden]... > > Indeed. Allison was a bit shook, but in great physical shape

considering

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > what he'd been through - not a scratch, just a sore neck from the second > hit > > when Phil Parsons planted himself in Bobby's right side. > > > > Now Earnhardt? He was another story all together, even though he'd had > > nothing to do with it. During the Red Flag to fix the fence (almost 2 > hours > > from which ESPN never left - ahh, the days!) when they interviewed > > Earnhardt, he was as out-there as I'd ever seen him. > > > > You could tell he was replaying the scene in his mind, and even lamented > "If > > I had it to do over again, I'd try to get 'im in the nose and keep him > from > > takin' off like that..." Could you imagine what he had time to think? > With > > a race-driver's mind already operating at such a high level, Dale

probably > > had time to think "Holy Sh*t - he's going over the fence...." knowingthat > > there was nothing he could do but watch while Allison's car flew away. > > > > When the race restarted, guess who went on to get his first win as a > Rookie? > > Davey Allison - turning his last laps at dusk in the 209mph range. Itwas

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > quite a day - I wish I could find the tape! > > > > Bob > > > > > > "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a53lj4$jkg$[email hidden]... > > > Now I bet that was one HELL of a ride. > > > > > > > > > Bob Mina <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message > > > news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]... > > > > John: > > > > > > > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > > > > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place > (just > > > > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have > been > > > > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he > was > > > > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down

towards

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > the > > > > infield. > > > > > > > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got > > turned > > > > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough > velocity - > > > the > > > > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got

underneath

Quoted text (11 lines)

> it > > > and > > > > with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's > > nose > > > > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the > catch > > > > fence. > > > > > > > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to > > Doyle > > > > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like

a > > top > > > > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from > the > > > > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air.They

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > > flew > > > > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > > > > > > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then > re-appear > > > with > > > > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > > > > > > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the > 'catch > > > > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the

car > > from > > > > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris > (including > > > one > > > > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people hadcome > > > THIS > > > > close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow thecars > > down > > > > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > > > > > > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape > > somewhere, > > > > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling itwhile > > you > > > > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the > only > > > > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > > > > > > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without theplates

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > so > > > > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still > around. > > > > > > > > Bob Mina > > > > Philadelphia, PA > > > > > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew

a > > tire > > > > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got > airborne.......completely > > > > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before theflagman's

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > > > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the > fence > > > for > > > > a > > > > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Got that right; Bodine's wreck wasn't caused by aero..................Kurt Busch smacked him in the rear because Busch wasn't used to the suction of the draft; first of many Busch has since pissed off, especially at the SS. -John "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wced8.26576$[email hidden]... > > While there is truth in your comment about GB's truck wreck, his was not > necessarily due to an aero issue. First, the trucks run SS's pretty dang > fast, they had to disconnect an air intake hose THIS year to slow thembelow > 190 at Daytona. So they are going about as fast as the cup cars, they're > just doing so without plates. > > No, GB's deal was caused by an almost open wheel like incident where his > front wheel went into the fender of another truck behind the front tirebut > in front of the firewall and rode that truck's front tire up and over the > top allowing air to get under the truck and happend to be right beside the > catch fence at the time. There are 'bodine' bars in that area in front of > the firewalls now to prevent such things from occuring again. Freakaccident > likely never to happen again IMHO. > > BA's, deal was definetly speed/aero related. His scene would be playedover > and over again even with roof flaps if today's cars ran unrestricted atthe > SS's. We're having less 'blowovers' due to slower speeds which are created > by the current plate rules (and the roof air deflector flaps). SinceNASCAR > purposely started keeping the speeds below 200, blowovers have beenfreakish > wrecks rather than single car spins that resulted in takeoff. I thinkspeed > has everything to do with it. > >

Yep. Ironically, it was Bobby Allison who pushed for them IIRC. -John "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p_dd8.26573$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Yep. They _could_ do something if they really wanted to, but there's > lots > > of politics involved, especially now that Nascar's cool. Petty said a > long > > time ago that Nascar was making a big mistake allowing the cars to have > air > > dams and spoilers.............looks like he was right. > > > > -John > > > > That's why they call him the King! hehe. How prophetic that statement has > become... > >

>"GLeger" <[email hidden]> wrote > ymenard, do you think with the advent of new safety equipment, and theblack > boxes, for more study and safety info, that one day we may see Nascar > experiment with some racing without restrictor plates at superspeedways? Personally, no, even if I wish they would. NASCAR likes the current type of racing found on restrictor plate tracks. They like artificial racing, it keeps the ratings high. It's all what counts nowadays, doesn't it? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

My point was the end result was the same type of accident into the fence so over all there was one accident that led to the changes we have now. O personally think no plate or larger plate would lead to better and safer racing than we have now. Make the fences stronger and move the fans back a few rows. "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (23 lines)

> Got that right; Bodine's wreck wasn't caused by > aero..................Kurt Busch smacked him in the rear because Busch > wasn't used to the suction of the draft; first of many Busch has since > pissed off, especially at the SS. > > -John > > > "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:wced8.26576$[email hidden]... > > > > > While there is truth in your comment about GB's truck wreck, his was not > > necessarily due to an aero issue. First, the trucks run SS's pretty dang > > fast, they had to disconnect an air intake hose THIS year to slow them > below > > 190 at Daytona. So they are going about as fast as the cup cars, they're > > just doing so without plates. > > > > No, GB's deal was caused by an almost open wheel like incident where his > > front wheel went into the fender of another truck behind the front tire > but > > in front of the firewall and rode that truck's front tire up and over

the > > top allowing air to get under the truck and happend to be right besidethe > > catch fence at the time. There are 'bodine' bars in that area in frontof

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > the firewalls now to prevent such things from occuring again. Freak > accident > > likely never to happen again IMHO. > > > > BA's, deal was definetly speed/aero related. His scene would be played > over > > and over again even with roof flaps if today's cars ran unrestricted at > the > > SS's. We're having less 'blowovers' due to slower speeds which are

created

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > by the current plate rules (and the roof air deflector flaps). Since > NASCAR > > purposely started keeping the speeds below 200, blowovers have been > freakish > > wrecks rather than single car spins that resulted in takeoff. I think > speed > > has everything to do with it. > > > > > >

John Pancoast wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since it was a > blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually because > they've been hit and/or hit someone. > Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still possible > IMO, just not as easily. > > -John >

Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to race w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the outside of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the physics of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the airstream lifts the rear of my car... I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concerns at issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology breakthrough plates are here to stay. Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... John DiFool

Sorry for any confusion Schooner; I wasn't disagreeing with your statements. -John "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Efid8.17778$[email hidden]... > My point was the end result was the same type of accident into the fenceso > over all there was one accident that led to the changes we have now. O > personally think no plate or larger plate would lead to better and safer > racing than we have now. Make the fences stronger and move the fans backa

Quoted text (17 lines)

> few rows. > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Got that right; Bodine's wreck wasn't caused by > > aero..................Kurt Busch smacked him in the rear because Busch > > wasn't used to the suction of the draft; first of many Busch has since > > pissed off, especially at the SS. > > > > -John > > > > > > "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:wced8.26576$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > While there is truth in your comment about GB's truck wreck, his was

not > > > necessarily due to an aero issue. First, the trucks run SS's prettydang > > > fast, they had to disconnect an air intake hose THIS year to slow them > > below > > > 190 at Daytona. So they are going about as fast as the cup cars,they're > > > just doing so without plates. > > > > > > No, GB's deal was caused by an almost open wheel like incident wherehis > > > front wheel went into the fender of another truck behind the fronttire

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > but > > > in front of the firewall and rode that truck's front tire up and over > the > > > top allowing air to get under the truck and happend to be right beside > the > > > catch fence at the time. There are 'bodine' bars in that area in front > of > > > the firewalls now to prevent such things from occuring again. Freak > > accident > > > likely never to happen again IMHO. > > > > > > BA's, deal was definetly speed/aero related. His scene would be played > > over > > > and over again even with roof flaps if today's cars ran unrestricted

at

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > the > > > SS's. We're having less 'blowovers' due to slower speeds which are > created > > > by the current plate rules (and the roof air deflector flaps). Since > > NASCAR > > > purposely started keeping the speeds below 200, blowovers have been > > freakish > > > wrecks rather than single car spins that resulted in takeoff. I think > > speed > > > has everything to do with it. > > > > > > > > > > > >

There was an IRL accident at Lowes a few years ago where I think one fan was killed when a car made it into the stands. They have since improved the fencing. "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > John Pancoast wrote: > > > I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since itwas a > > blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually because > > they've been hit and/or hit someone. > > Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's stillpossible

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > IMO, just not as easily. > > > > -John > > > > Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to race > w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in > the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the

outside

Quoted text (17 lines)

> of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the physics > of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang > time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the > airstream lifts the rear of my car... > I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concerns at > issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it > harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front > rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology > breakthrough plates are here to stay. > Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? > Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little > chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- > wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > John DiFool > >

Front row seats are cheaper than the back rows. At most tracks, you cant see the whole track from the front row. Front row seats are usully 1/3 the cost of rows 30 and higher. On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:51:57 GMT, John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (30 lines)

>John Pancoast wrote: > >> I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since it was a >> blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually because >> they've been hit and/or hit someone. >> Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still possible >> IMO, just not as easily. >> >> -John >> > > Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to race >w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in >the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the outside >of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the physics >of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang >time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the >airstream lifts the rear of my car... > I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concerns at >issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it >harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front >rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology >breakthrough plates are here to stay. > Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? >Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little >chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- >wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > John DiFool >

"Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]>... <snip> Man I remember watching that on TV. I need to see if my dad still has that race on tape somewhere. The biggest thing I remember is that during the 3 hour red flag, ESPN showed a race Tim Richmond won (IIRC Sears Pt). I really really need to see if I can dig that up. Are there any avi's or good images from the wreck online anywhere? I've been searching and all I can find are a few pics at: http://www.bobbyallison.com/old%20files/pics80sx.htm Jason

It wasn't the car that made it in, it was a wheel off of the car. Since then all of the major series have put wheel tethers on the cars and tracks that host open wheel events have raised the catch fencing and put more overhang on the fence over the tracks. Scott "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6sid8.17786$[email hidden]... > There was an IRL accident at Lowes a few years ago where I think one fanwas

Quoted text (10 lines)

> killed when a car made it into the stands. They have since improved the > fencing. > > "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since it > was a > > > blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually

because

Quoted text (31 lines)

> > > they've been hit and/or hit someone. > > > Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still > possible > > > IMO, just not as easily. > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to race > > w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in > > the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the > outside > > of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the physics > > of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang > > time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the > > airstream lifts the rear of my car... > > I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concerns at > > issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it > > harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front > > rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology > > breakthrough plates are here to stay. > > Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? > > Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little > > chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- > > wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > > > John DiFool > > > > > >

No luck here - I can't find a thing. Google has been stumped! B. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > Man I remember watching that on TV. I need to see if my dad still has > that race on tape somewhere. The biggest thing I remember is that > during the 3 hour red flag, ESPN showed a race Tim Richmond won (IIRC > Sears Pt). I really really need to see if I can dig that up. > > Are there any avi's or good images from the wreck online anywhere? > I've been searching and all I can find are a few pics at: > > http://www.bobbyallison.com/old%20files/pics80sx.htm

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:01:38 -0700, "John Pancoast" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Maybe, but fwiw, the safety stuff done/plates on the SS weren't done only >>for driver safety. That was a secondary concern. >> They were done for fan safety, to help prevent the cars from going into >>the stands again. >> >>-John > >'again'? Oops.. :-/

Well, Richard Petty and Bobby Allison almost did it, in different years. I believe the plates were mandated right after Allison's wreck(Talladega, I think). He got airborne, hit the fence, took out about 100 feet of catch fence, but fortunately the car bounced back onto the track... Scary looking wreck. I don't remember how many fans were injured, but it could have been a LOT worse... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Absolutely, and for that reason Nascar will never build a track like that. If they did, and plated it, it would be a bore. At 250mph, you are pretty much guaranteed to go airborne if you spin. -Larry "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a51siu$h2$[email hidden]... > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on thecoca > cola track, and I got to wondering; > do you think that if they were to really build something like that wewould > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (jason moyer) writes: >Are there any avi's or good images from the wreck online anywhere? >I've been searching and all I can find are a few pics at: > >http://www.bobbyallison.com/old%20files/pics80sx.htm > And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably fans standing right where those cops are... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably fans > standing right where those cops are... Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine the destruction a modern stockcar could do... Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've actually been at): http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html N2002 eat your heart out. Jason

If Google is stumped, then it's all over! -Larry "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a55qor$4s1tp$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> No luck here - I can't find a thing. Google has been stumped! > > B. > > "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > Man I remember watching that on TV. I need to see if my dad still has > > that race on tape somewhere. The biggest thing I remember is that > > during the 3 hour red flag, ESPN showed a race Tim Richmond won (IIRC > > Sears Pt). I really really need to see if I can dig that up. > > > > Are there any avi's or good images from the wreck online anywhere? > > I've been searching and all I can find are a few pics at: > > > > http://www.bobbyallison.com/old%20files/pics80sx.htm > > >

On 22 Feb 2002 22:55:22 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

Quoted text (17 lines)

>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > >> And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably fans >> standing right where those cops are... > >Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine >the destruction a modern stockcar could do... > >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've >actually been at): > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > >N2002 eat your heart out. > >Jason

From one newsgroup earlier today http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting a friend with cable on monday to get these. Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see how he got out

Thanks Bob. I was almost holding my breath while reading your description of the incident. Achim "Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:a53jvg$4furn$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> John: > > Correct on most counts! It was Bobby Allison in the Spring race at > Talladega in 1987. He was coming out of the Tri-Oval in 7th place (just > ahead of Dale Earnhardt) when he ran over what was believed to have been > metal on the track (beer can?). His left rear tire blew just as he was > exiting the corner, and the car began a lazy spin, nosing down towards the > infield. > > At the time in the draft cars were doing 208-211mph, so once he got turned > around his car was no different than an airplane with enough velocity -

the > rear spoiler lifted the car, then the force of the air got underneath itand

Quoted text (8 lines)

> with sickening slowness despite his speed...the car stood up on it's nose > whilst going backwards in a straight line, nearly parallel to the catch > fence. > > It impacted the middle of the fence about 150 feet before getting to Doyle > Ford (the flagman) and ricocheted back onto the track, spinning like a top > the entire time. The hood and windshield had actually burst out from the > pressure differential and sailed at least 150 feet into the air. They

flew > downrange, landing nearly in turn one on their own. > > Grace Under Pressure Award: On tape you see Doyle duck, then re-appearwith > the yellow flag waving before Allison had even finished sliding! > > The car tore down 350 feet of fencing in under 1 second, but the 'catch > cables' running through the fence were the only thing to keep the car from > flying into the stands. Several fans were injured by debris (includingone > woman that did lose an eye), but the fact that so many people had comeTHIS

Quoted text (20 lines)

> close to re-living Le Mans 1955...NASCAR knew it had to slow the cars down > immediately, and set to work on bringing back the restrictor plates. > > I remember it like it was yesterday: I used to have it on tape somewhere, > and I can still remember Larry Nuber and Bob Jenkins calling it while you > could hear people in the pressbox screaming in the background - the only > time I ever heard that in any kind of racing broadcast. > > Based on that - you will NEVER see the cars running without the plates so > long as someone in NASCAR brass that saw that incident it still around. > > Bob Mina > Philadelphia, PA > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > :) The plates/roof flaps came about because Bobby Allison blew a tire > > coming out of T4 at Tally in 87-88?, car got airborne.......completely > > airborne..........got on top of the fence just before the flagman's > > stand(how he lived is beyond me), and slid along the top of the fence

for > a > > couple seconds before dropping back onto the track. > >

"ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > how he got out I had forgot all about that one. Actually, it was Bristol. Mikey's wreck at Bristol and Geoff Bodine's truck wreck at Daytona are two of the most violent oval track wrecks I've ever seen where the driver made it out alive.

That web site has many wrecks. I spent about an hour downloading all the videos. Waltrip's was there. "ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 22 Feb 2002 22:55:22 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: > > >[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > > >> And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably fans > >> standing right where those cops are... > > > >Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine > >the destruction a modern stockcar could do... > > > >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did > >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've > >actually been at): > > > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > > > >N2002 eat your heart out. > > > >Jason > > From one newsgroup earlier today > http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ > > crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting > a friend with cable on monday to get these. > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > how he got out

Hi Jon, do not be deceived by the ease at which this track can be raced in N2002. This track has been given a much higher grip than the other tracks in N2002, i.e. the grip this track has is unrealistically high. If you were to drive this track in N2002 at a realistic grip level, only the best of the best could drive it at top speed at all - most would be all over the place at 225mph - and that would be realistic. This is how difficult it would be for the real guys to drive such a track (at the much lower grip such a track would have in reality). Therefor, yes, I think in real Nascar, driving such a track without the plates would lead to more accidents. I'd like to add that IMHO, the risk of the high speed (or rather, why the cars were slowed down using plates) isn't actually that they'd go over the fence much more easily than when they go 25mph slower for purely aerodynamical reasons. I think the main reason why they slowed the cars down is that at 200mph they're more manageable than at 225mph. Just consider our own experience on motorcyles or in cars. The difference in control and ability to react to unforeseen disturbances between going at 70mph on a motorcycle and going at 150mph is dramatic. There's an exponential decrease of control and ability to react in time, and I think that probably between 200mph and 225mph there's probably quite a dramatic difference - which is why they decided to use 200mph as the acceptable max, probably assuming that this speed can still considered to be controllable at SS ovals. There's a speed at which the driver sort of changes from 'driver' to more or less 'passenger' for practical reasons - like required response time too short, or the magnitude of control input possible without upsetting the vehicle extremely small at higher speeds above a certain limit. Or the car simpy not reacting quickly enough because of the high momentums at top speeds. 200mph was probably considered to be a fair compromise between safety and speed for exactly these reasons. Achim "jon " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a51siu$h2$[email hidden]... > just got n2002, and like it a lot better than n4. I was racing on thecoca > cola track, and I got to wondering; > do you think that if they were to really build something like that wewould > see a lot more fatal accidents because of the higher speeds? > >

yeah I always thought Mikey's was At Bristol. "IF" I remember, another car had previously hit the wall there and moved one portion of concrete back an inch or two. When the younger Waltrip lost it his car slammed into that same spot and STOPPED frightenly fast. Never understood how he survived that... The only wreck that I've seen footage of that may be worse(i.e. more frightening) was a sports car crash at (?) Road Atlanta where one car spun at the exit of a fast fast blind corner. The next car with the camera view behind the driver drove right into the side of the first car. The camera didn't survive as the entire front of the Sportscar collapsed up to the roll bars. The Poor driver had major leg injuries but survived. dave henrie "Rob Berus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Wu5e8.103905$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> That web site has many wrecks. I spent about an hour downloading all the > videos. Waltrip's was there. > > "ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On 22 Feb 2002 22:55:22 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: > > > > >[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > > > > > >> And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably

fans

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > >> standing right where those cops are... > > > > > >Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine > > >the destruction a modern stockcar could do... > > > > > >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did > > >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've > > >actually been at): > > > > > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > > > > > >N2002 eat your heart out. > > > > > >Jason > > > > From one newsgroup earlier today > > http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ > > > > crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting > > a friend with cable on monday to get these. > > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > > how he got out > >

Actually Mikey hit right at the corner of the crossover gate, which was just slightly inset from the concrete walls. Going on with the theme of wrecks that drivers shouldn't have survived, I'll thrown in Steve Grissom's wreck at Atlanta in the mid 90's. This is the one where he spun down the front straight and hit the wall inside wall backwards just before turn one. He broke the concrete wall and the fuel cell flew off of the car and went across the track. Scott "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hC7e8.24483$%[email hidden]... > yeah I always thought Mikey's was At Bristol. "IF" I remember, another > car had previously hit the wall there and moved one portion of concreteback > an inch or two. When the younger Waltrip lost it his car slammed intothat > same spot and STOPPED frightenly fast. Never understood how he survived > that... > The only wreck that I've seen footage of that may be worse(i.e. more > frightening) was a sports car crash at (?) Road Atlanta where one car spun > at the exit of a fast fast blind corner. The next car with the cameraview > behind the driver drove right into the side of the first car. The camera > didn't survive as the entire front of the Sportscar collapsed up to theroll > bars. The Poor driver had major leg injuries but survived. > dave henrie > "Rob Berus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Wu5e8.103905$[email hidden]... > > That web site has many wrecks. I spent about an hour downloading allthe

Quoted text (39 lines)

> > videos. Waltrip's was there. > > > > "ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On 22 Feb 2002 22:55:22 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: > > > > > > >[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in message > > news:<[email hidden]>... > > > > > > > >> And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably > fans > > > >> standing right where those cops are... > > > > > > > >Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine > > > >the destruction a modern stockcar could do... > > > > > > > >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did > > > >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've > > > >actually been at): > > > > > > > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > > > > > > > >N2002 eat your heart out. > > > > > > > >Jason > > > > > > From one newsgroup earlier today > > > http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ > > > > > > crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting > > > a friend with cable on monday to get these. > > > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > > > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > > > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > > > how he got out > > > > > >

Actually, before the accident, the IRL was the only series to not have wheel tethers. CART got them after Fernandez's car lost a wheel and it killed 3 fans in '98. They still aren't perfect, Burti lost a wheel at Oz right after they put better tethers on the car for '01, but it at least slows down the tire enough to not fly into the stands. -Stuart Becktell "Scott Sanford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fmqd8.11991$%[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> It wasn't the car that made it in, it was a wheel off of the car. Since > then all of the major series have put wheel tethers on the cars and tracks > that host open wheel events have raised the catch fencing and put more > overhang on the fence over the tracks. > > Scott > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6sid8.17786$[email hidden]... > > There was an IRL accident at Lowes a few years ago where I think one fan > was > > killed when a car made it into the stands. They have since improved the > > fencing. > > > > "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > > I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps, since

it

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > was a > > > > blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually > because > > > > they've been hit and/or hit someone. > > > > Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still > > possible > > > > IMO, just not as easily. > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to

race

Quoted text (24 lines)

> > > w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in > > > the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the > > outside > > > of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the physics > > > of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang > > > time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the > > > airstream lifts the rear of my car... > > > I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concerns at > > > issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it > > > harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front > > > rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology > > > breakthrough plates are here to stay. > > > Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? > > > Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little > > > chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- > > > wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > > > > > John DiFool > > > > > > > > > > > >

That was also before NASCAR started using the tethers and I believe that was the same year that F1 started using them. Scott "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JKbe8.125513$[email hidden]... > Actually, before the accident, the IRL was the only series to not havewheel > tethers. CART got them after Fernandez's car lost a wheel and it killed 3 > fans in '98. They still aren't perfect, Burti lost a wheel at Oz rightafter

Quoted text (7 lines)

> they put better tethers on the car for '01, but it at least slows down the > tire enough to not fly into the stands. > -Stuart Becktell > "Scott Sanford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fmqd8.11991$%[email hidden]... > > It wasn't the car that made it in, it was a wheel off of the car. Since > > then all of the major series have put wheel tethers on the cars and

tracks

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > that host open wheel events have raised the catch fencing and put more > > overhang on the fence over the tracks. > > > > Scott > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:6sid8.17786$[email hidden]... > > > There was an IRL accident at Lowes a few years ago where I think one

fan > > was > > > killed when a car made it into the stands. They have since improvedthe

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > fencing. > > > > > > "John DiFool" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't think he would have got airborne at all with flaps,

since

Quoted text (18 lines)

> it > > > was a > > > > > blown tire that started it. They get airborne now, it's usually > > because > > > > > they've been hit and/or hit someone. > > > > > Hard to say though; under the right conditions, anything's still > > > possible > > > > > IMO, just not as easily. > > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well look at our (2nd) favorite simulation. In N3 I tended to > race > > > > w/o the plates, and on a number of occasions I would have been in > > > > the stands if it weren't for the 'invisible force field' around the > > > outside > > > > of the track. Now in N2002 the cars are heavier as far as the

physics > > > > of the situation goes, but I have managed to get some decent hang > > > > time in the new sim too, and usually after I spin around and the > > > > airstream lifts the rear of my car... > > > > I hate the plates but I have to agree with the safety concernsat

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > > > issue here (alas)... If you make it safer for the fan you make it > > > > harder to get close to the action (and/or lose those lucrative front > > > > rows-$$$ ya know), so unless there is some sort of technology > > > > breakthrough plates are here to stay. > > > > Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? > > > > Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little > > > > chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- > > > > wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > > > > > > > John DiFool > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stock_Cars/crash182.mpg (12MB's) That's the one! Thanks - just like I remembered it with 2 changes to my notes: 1. It was a Right Rear that blew (I thought it was LR). 2. The Windshield and Hood didn't fly so much up as I thought. The windscreen tore up the grass on the infield, and the hood frisbee'd down the track. Thanks for the link - I haven't seen this in years. Still as scary as heck. Bob "ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted text (9 lines)

> From one newsgroup earlier today > http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ > > crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting > a friend with cable on monday to get these. > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > how he got out

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (jason moyer) writes: >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've >actually been at): > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html Jeez, Louise! It still amazes me some of the wrecks that people live through. And then a seemingly minor one that takes a life... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

That's the great irony of these wrecks: The one's with cars flying and parts shedding everywhere are the MOST surviveable since all the energy of the wreck is being dissapated by the tumbling and launching, whereas the sudden stop wrecks (Irwin, Petty, Earnhardt, Roper, Brayton, Jovy Marcelo) are the ones that kill since all the energy goes internal to the softest part of the race-car: The Driver. That Davey Allison wreck was when Darrell Waltrip took him down to the grass and Davey didn't lift - easily avoided... B. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > > Jeez, Louise! It still amazes me some of the wrecks that people livethrough. > And then a seemingly minor one that takes a life... :(

"Bob Mina" <psyclistbob@.msn.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a5gads$7754o$[email hidden]>... > That Davey Allison wreck was when Darrell Waltrip took him down to the grass > and Davey didn't lift - easily avoided... Since when is it the responsibility of the car in front to back off? I never went with the whole 'Darrell did it on purpose' thing that Bobby A kept going on about in interviews, but if you look at the replay it's pretty clear he was trying to stick his car somewhere it shouldn't have been. To compound the problem, Rusty Wallace was fighting both of them to get his lap back (in the stands we initially assumed Rusty hit Davey since all we could see from our vantage point was a big black blur flying above the trees and then Rusty streaking around in front of the leaders). It was a shame. Inbetween cautions, Davey built up these ridiculous leads, like the rest of the field was irrelevant. It was a race for second place up until that last caution bunched up the field and he and Darrell got together, handing the win to DW. Jason

Whoa! I didn't mean to start a debate on who was at fault there. I really didn't mean to implicate either of them, but I guess in reviewing my own post it could be interp'ed that I was pointing a finger at DW; Sorry about that. Nah - not what I meant at all. When I say "Easily avoidable..." it's kind of with the shoulder-shrugged detachment of, "Damn, that was a huge wreck...if only Davey had lifted, or if DW gave him room..." To me it was a racing deal - no fault, just the nature of the beast. They were both right - they were both wrong. You know? Just one of them deals. Sorry if you were in the mood to debate - not my intention to whack the bees nest and run for the hills! :) B. "jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > That Davey Allison wreck was when Darrell Waltrip took him down to thegrass

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > and Davey didn't lift - easily avoided... > > Since when is it the responsibility of the car in front to back off? > I never went with the whole 'Darrell did it on purpose' thing that > Bobby A kept going on about in interviews, but if you look at the > replay it's pretty clear he was trying to stick his car somewhere it > shouldn't have been.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:51:57 GMT, John DiFool <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Now in the open-wheel series, why don't THEY have plates? >Is it the weight (=momentum) is less and they have very little >chance of busting through the fence? You'd think the open- >wheelers would be >more< liable to get airborne... > > John DiFool >

Entirely different aerodynamics package. Open wheelers have underbody channels that help increase downforce and when turned backwards / sideways they're not shaped to produce enough lift to get them airborne (without significant assistance). But there's still those pieces parts that get airborne in any series.

You're thinking of Bristol, when Mikey came off the corner and hit the concrete wall corner where the gate is, and his car went from 120mph to ZERO in about 50 microseconds. The car was a heap of garbage sitting in the middle of the track, in hundreds of pieces. But wait! There was Mikey coming up from the rubble! It was no-doubt the worst Nascar wreck I've ever seen. Not even Petty's trip down the fence was a scary as what I saw that day. Anyone know if there is a video of that somewhere ? -Larry "ssrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 22 Feb 2002 22:55:22 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: > > >[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > > >> And when you look at those pictures - remember there were probably fans > >> standing right where those cops are... > > > >Scary isn't it? I hate restrictor plates, but man, could you imagine > >the destruction a modern stockcar could do... > > > >Still haven't found any pics of Allison's crash in action, but I did > >find some of Davey's crash at Pocono in 92 (one of the few races I've > >actually been at): > > > >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2170/pocono.html > > > >N2002 eat your heart out. > > > >Jason > > From one newsgroup earlier today > http://tbk.fameflame.dk/videos/Stunts/ > > crash182.mpg is supposed to be the Allison crash.. dunno I am hitting > a friend with cable on monday to get these. > Btwy: anyone have the one with Mikey at (charlotte?) the one where > D.W thought his baby bro had bought it (mid 80's I think car looked > like a spatula, Mikey was fine though) I had stills I just want to see > how he got out