What is collecting dust on YOUR shelf?

After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: *NHRA Drag Racing 2 - The worst offender, my inspiration (I'm a gearhead and a former owner of some groovy muscle cars). Never outlasted my interest. Although it would be nice to see a real sim-drag racing title. *F1 2000 Champ Season - Poor performance, poor graphics engine. (After playing, not worth upgrading) *Arcade Titles (1nsane/MidTown Madness/Driver/Interstate82/NFS-3) - At least they served the purpose of making me realize that Rally 2K, SCGT, MBTR and all Need For Speed series are actually much more arcade racers than I would've originally believed. The only racing games that I enjoy anymore are GPL and Nascar4. I even built an AMD/1600+/GF3 system for them. I can spend hours lost in GPL and N4. Need For Speed-Porsche used to be enjoyable until I understood how remedial the physics were. I will say that my enlightment has come late. I only picked up on GPL six months ago, and N4 even later. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I like cutting miliseconds in my laptime by adjusting my performance, rather than looking for loopholes in a elementary physics model. Then, it makes you realize how few really good racing sim titles are out there. GPL is old, new to me, but three years old now. WSC?, N5?, what else? Lay GPL2 on me, I'll be ready by March...

I hear ya Daisy. You'd think I'd learn but no, hype it enough and I'll by a clod of dirt. Superbike 2000 (cuz i like bikes) SUCKED Superbike 2001 (Cuz I figured they musta fixed the problems) Sucked F1 2000 (cuz I like F1) I am now through with EA! NASCAR Evolution This time I really mean it: I am now through with EA The only games I play anymore are GP3 and GPL, both old games but both have several common denominators. They both have superb physics modelling, they both have decent graphics engines, not superb graphics but very good for their time and it pleases me to see developers who believe the in game performance is more important than flashy graphics which become obsolete before the game is released. My only complaint is the lack of multiplayer support for GP3. GP4 is due for release in Spring 2002. I've got N3 but haven't got around to getting N4. "daisykillbot" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted a > lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose than > keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: > > *NHRA Drag Racing 2 - The worst offender, my inspiration (I'm a > gearhead and a former owner of some groovy muscle cars). Never > outlasted my interest. Although it would be nice to see a real > sim-drag racing title. > > *F1 2000 Champ Season - Poor performance, poor graphics engine. (After > playing, not worth upgrading) > > *Arcade Titles (1nsane/MidTown Madness/Driver/Interstate82/NFS-3) - At > least they served the purpose of making me realize that Rally 2K, > SCGT, MBTR and all Need For Speed series are actually much more arcade > racers than I would've originally believed. > > The only racing games that I enjoy anymore are GPL and Nascar4. > I even built an AMD/1600+/GF3 system for them. > > I can spend hours lost in GPL and N4. Need For Speed-Porsche used to > be enjoyable until I understood how remedial the physics were. > > I will say that my enlightment has come late. I only picked up on GPL > six months ago, and N4 even later. > Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I like cutting miliseconds in > my laptime by adjusting my performance, rather than looking for > loopholes in a elementary physics model. > > Then, it makes you realize how few really good racing sim titles are > out there. GPL is old, new to me, but three years old now. > > WSC?, N5?, what else? Lay GPL2 on me, I'll be ready by March...

[email hidden] (daisykillbot) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > *NHRA Drag Racing 2 - The worst offender, my inspiration (I'm a > gearhead and a former owner of some groovy muscle cars). Never > outlasted my interest. Although it would be nice to see a real > sim-drag racing title. Have you tried any of the ones put out by Bethesda? IHRA looked interesting but I didn't want to waste money on another racing game I wouldn't play. > *F1 2000 Champ Season - Poor performance, poor graphics engine. (After > playing, not worth upgrading) F1 2001 is much better looking and runs much better than F1 2000 or F1 2000 CS. Currently it's collecting dust on my shelf until they fix the deadzone with split axis controllers, and it may stay there anyway since there are so many annoying quirks in the physics engine, like being unable to lockup the brakes without downshifting, being able to literally slide sideways around most corners without much danger of losing the car, and the need for a 'Speed Sensitivity' setting to slow the steering at higher speeds, which makes absolutely no sense when that sort of thing should be a component of the physics engine, not a controller option. In a nutshell F1 2001 is SCGT with more wheelspin and less grip. The list of racing stuff currently on my shelf includes: Dirt Track Racing/DTRSC - Probably the best games that I don't have installed. Really can't think of anything in particular I don't like about them, I just tend to prefer driving ovals in N4. Current NVIDIA drivers cause stuttering in these also. Rally Masters - Another great game, but the incredibly short (sub 2 minute) stages and awful control scheme kill it for me. If this had a more detailed damage model and 20 minute stages I'd never leave my house. There are few things more challenging in the sim world than trying to effectively drive a Saab S1 over the Indonesian stages in this game. Also, I hate sims that don't feature proper gauges on the dash, especially when they show a 2nd wheel in front of your for some reason. Leadfoot - The Ratbag engine is really solid at modelling cars with 4 wheels on the ground. Get them in the air tho and it falls apart fast. Also, and this applies to DTRSC as well, I hate open wheeled sims that don't let you see your front wheels. Colin Mcrae 2.0 - Simply awful. Short, slow, boring stages mixed with a physics engine that makes NFS:PU look advanced. The damage modelling is also silly and really doesn't make a difference in the game. No gauges and a moving wheel that you can't disable add to the suckiness. Super 1 Karting - Engine braking anyone? And don't even get me started on the controls, even with the control fix. Viper Racing/Nascar Heat - Both very solid sims with great suspension/damage modelling and amazing AI (the best I've seen in a racing game). My major complaints with Viper are the poor cockpit view, inability to damage the engine, and small number of tracks. Heat features Supergrip(tm) tires and a damage model that is very nicely detailed but even less sensitive than Nascar 4's. That being said, if I were to recommend a sim to a newbie it would be NHeat since I've found that it's ease of driving let's you concentrate on effective pedal techniques and holding a line which has helped my driving in N4 and GPL. Rally Championship 2000 - Most frustrating sim ever. Gorgeous representation of the BRC track/event wise, amazing selection of cars, and a damage model that can be tweaked to create the only realistic damage sensitivity available in a racing sim. The cockpit view features realistic gauges, but also a steering wheel (grr). On the downside, the vehicle dynamics are done so poorly everything else is rendered meaningless. If everything in this sim stayed exactly the same but the vehicle modelling was changed to properly represent weight transfer I'd never leave my house. NF:PU - Pretty game, too much grip (altho at least the grip is consistent, see my F1 2001 bit below). Great sounds, too, and the test driver mode is really neat. F1 2000 CS - Stuttering graphics, cartoony graphics, poor control scheme. I actually prefer the physics modelling in it to F1 2001, altho the poor control setup makes it difficult to really feel the car out. Definitely models brake lockups better than F1 2001. Also, you can turn off the moving steering wheel (yay). F1 2001 - Bought this because people were referring to it as a GPL killer. Well, GPL is still living large on my hd. Tons of major physics issues relating to braking and inconsistent grip levels (I love spinning the rear wheels to provoke a spin and then letting off which causes the tires to immediately and magically grip again). I also enjoy the bumper car aspects of car-to-car contact. Didn't realize I could bump wheels with someone without incurring any sort of 'flying through the air violently' type penalty. I would likely still play this despite the niggles but it seems that split axis pedals are stricken with a 50% deadzone, making it unplayable. That and the 'speed sensitivity' crap held over from SCGT is ridiculous. If the pedals worked correctly and ISI would adopt the 'big assed linear/non-linear steering adjuster' instead of a million useless and confusing config menus, this would still be installed. Whenever the split-axis stuff is fixed, I'll give it a second chance. SCGT - Too much grip, can't overrev the engine, poor brake modelling, awful control scheme. Nice cars and courses and the user community rocks. Grand Prix 3 - Still not sure how I feel about the realism of this one. The cars feel too grippy but that's what I expect from an F1 car. The weather model is fantastic, as is the telemetry. Strong AI. I can't get GP3 2000 in the US or I'd likely give this another go. Also, I have to question people who say the physics modelling in this is weaker than F1 2001, since the wheelspin models are nearly identical and GP3 models brake lockups infinitely better. Haven't played it in forever so I forget what the suspension/weight modelling is like. Collision modelling is laughable. > The only racing games that I enjoy anymore are GPL and Nascar4. Same here. Thankfully Civilization 3, IL-2, and Op Flashpoint came out to hold me over until Nascar 5/GPL 2/Rally Tropy US/WSC are out. I've also been obsessed with Tennis Masters Series the last few weeks - some reviews have bashed it because it realistically portrays the most important aspects of tennis (managing momentum and anticipating your opponent's next shot - for some reason people seem to thing the realistic portrayal of agility = unresponsive controls...well, my gamepad seems to work just fine) but it's really top notch. I've also been playing Mig Alley and the Looking Glass Studios FPS games a lot (Thief/Thief 2/System Shock 2/Deus Ex). Pretty much everything else is sitting on my bookshelf. > I will say that my enlightment has come late. I only picked up on GPL > six months ago, and N4 even later. I've been a Papy fan since the ICR days, and I have to say I've never been let down by any of their products thusfar. They've been leading the way since Indy 500, and most other companies aren't even close to catching up. Their 2D games are still more realistic than most other companies' 6dof stuff (ICR2 is still the best modern day open wheeled sim). > WSC?, N5?, what else? Lay GPL2 on me, I'll be ready by March... Based on the demo, I'm picking up Rally Trophy. I've seen some unfavorable comparisons between it and Colin McRae 2.0 but I don't see any similarities at all based on the demo. If the high-powered rear wheel drive cars are modeled as well as the mini, I don't think it would be far fetched to call it the GPL of rally sims. The engine seems to model grip and weight transfer to a level of detail that you only find in GPL/N4. It's nice playing a rally game that models the difficulty of catching a slide well and features realistic wheelspin and brake locking...just crossing my fingers that the RWD cars are modeled well. Other than Rally Trophy, looks like the next good release will be whatever Papy puts out next. I'd guess N5 (or maybe an F1/Cart/IRL game?) early next year then GPL72 in late 2002/early 2003. My absolute dream at this point would be a collaboration between Papy and Bugbear to create a new Rally Championship game that properly modeled the BRC to the level of detail of RC2000 but with a realistic suspension/tire model. Not to be redundant, but if such a sim existed I would never leave the house. Jason

daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted > a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose > than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf:<snip> Haven't we all? In my case this includes: MB Truck Racing: all very nice to look at, but the inability to have a combination of no speed limiter and simulation settings is amazingly frustrating. RC2000: has recently started locking up after about 1 1/2 stages. Presumably a Windows configuration thing, but I can't be bothered to fix it as Rally Trophy is taking up too much of my time :-) Monster Truck Madness 2: came with my MSFF wheel (along with CART Precision RAcing, which is average in every way). I just can't get into MTM2 at all. Sports Car GT: I will get around to playing it sometime, honest, but there are so many other games ahead of it in the queue. PLus the fact that it's stored in a box with Rollercoaster Tycoon, which tends to distract me... ;-) International Rally Championship: One word - why? Grand Prix 2 - kept for sentimental reasons, but I never play it any more. F1-2000 - completely soulless. I haven't got the PC spec for F1-2001, so it's a dead end. -- "We are not very far from fascism. In fact, Mugabe has endorsed fascism in his rule" - Takura Zhangazha, Zimbabwean political scientist. The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (David Buttery) writes: >daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > >> After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted >> a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose >> than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: ><snip> MBTR - can't get it to recognize my split-axis controller Toca2 - VERY picky steering - not enough feedback/warning when the car is about to spin(which it does early and often) F1WGP - see above MGPRS2 - almost the same problem as Toca2, but I suspect it's more because of a lack of sound cues... Superbike 2001 - never got the hang of using a wheel to control a motorcycle... Nascar Legends - I played it a lot against the AI when I first bought it, but I started running online with GPL more. Leadfoot - bought it, but haven't even loaded it yet... Burnout - never figured out the mechanical aspect, and the driving experience was...well, boring. The rest of my list would be Nascar 1/2/3, CPR, ICR 1/2, SCGT(may load that again), Viper(ditto)...etc. I own too many to list...<g> Probably over 50 games. Combine that with all the OTHER games I've bought and don't play, it's no WONDER I'm broke... :-) Maybe I'll find a school to donate them to or something. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ducati Racing (or whatever it was called). bought it, installed it, uninstalled it torched the CD. quite possibly THE worst racing game ever. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

David Buttery wrote:

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> > daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > > > After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted > > a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose > > than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: > <snip>

Ewww.. holy cow. Lots of racing titles gathering dust here! In no particular order- NASCAR1 NASCAR2 NASCAR99 NASCAR3 NASCAR Legends NASCAR Revolution ICR2 ABC Sports Indy Racing Cart Precision Racing GP2 GP3 Viper Racing F1RS MGPRS2 F1 2000 SCGT Test Drive LeMans Mobil 1 Rally Championship Super 1 Karting Superbike SBK 2001 Motocross Madness 2 Moto Racer 1 Moto Racer 2 Good thing for GPL, NASCAR 4 & NASCAR Heat. At least all my racing titles aren't a waste. -- Fester

You should move SCGT up in the queue :) -Larry "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > > > After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted > > a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose > > than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: > <snip> > > Haven't we all? In my case this includes: > > MB Truck Racing: all very nice to look at, but the inability to have a > combination of no speed limiter and simulation settings is amazingly > frustrating. > > RC2000: has recently started locking up after about 1 1/2 stages. > Presumably a Windows configuration thing, but I can't be bothered to > fix it as Rally Trophy is taking up too much of my time :-) > > Monster Truck Madness 2: came with my MSFF wheel (along with CART > Precision RAcing, which is average in every way). I just can't get into > MTM2 at all. > > Sports Car GT: I will get around to playing it sometime, honest, but > there are so many other games ahead of it in the queue. PLus the fact > that it's stored in a box with Rollercoaster Tycoon, which tends to > distract me... ;-) > > International Rally Championship: One word - why? > > Grand Prix 2 - kept for sentimental reasons, but I never play it any > more. > > F1-2000 - completely soulless. I haven't got the PC spec for F1-2001, > so it's a dead end. > > -- > "We are not very far from fascism. In fact, Mugabe has endorsed fascism > in his rule" - Takura Zhangazha, Zimbabwean political scientist. > > The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Leadfoot isn't bad, but it has the same apocolyptic graphic-look that all the Ratbag racers have. That is, dark, gloomy and smeary. It was fitting in Powerslide. Makes no sense in the others. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (David Buttery) writes: > > >daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > > > >> After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted > >> a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose > >> than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: > ><snip> > > MBTR - can't get it to recognize my split-axis controller > Toca2 - VERY picky steering - not enough feedback/warning when the car is

about > to spin(which it does early and often) > F1WGP - see above > MGPRS2 - almost the same problem as Toca2, but I suspect it's more becauseof a > lack of sound cues... > Superbike 2001 - never got the hang of using a wheel to control amotorcycle... > Nascar Legends - I played it a lot against the AI when I first bought it,but I > started running online with GPL more. > Leadfoot - bought it, but haven't even loaded it yet... > Burnout - never figured out the mechanical aspect, and the drivingexperience > was...well, boring. > > > The rest of my list would be Nascar 1/2/3, CPR, ICR 1/2, SCGT(may loadthat > again), Viper(ditto)...etc. I own too many to list...<g> Probably over50 > games. Combine that with all the OTHER games I've bought and don't play,it's

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> no WONDER I'm broke... :-) Maybe I'll find a school to donate them to or > something. > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

My list is very close. Add: Powerboat racing. Motor City Online (I feel ashamed I bought this without checking around first). About 15 others. -Larry "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> David Buttery wrote: > > > > daisykillbot <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Dec 2001: > > > > > After racing around Italy in GPL, I just realized that I've wasted > > > a lot of cash on some crappy products that serve no more purpose > > > than keeping my other game boxes from falling off of my bookshelf: > > <snip> > > > Ewww.. holy cow. Lots of racing titles gathering dust here! In no > particular order- > > NASCAR1 > NASCAR2 > NASCAR99 > NASCAR3 > NASCAR Legends > NASCAR Revolution > ICR2 > ABC Sports Indy Racing > Cart Precision Racing > GP2 > GP3 > Viper Racing > F1RS > MGPRS2 > F1 2000 > SCGT > Test Drive LeMans > Mobil 1 Rally Championship > Super 1 Karting > Superbike > SBK 2001 > Motocross Madness 2 > Moto Racer 1 > Moto Racer 2 > > > Good thing for GPL, NASCAR 4 & NASCAR Heat. At least all my racing > titles aren't a waste. > > -- > > Fester