GPL2 1972

There are rumours that Sierra France has announced that papy's next sim will be N5 in march 2002 followed by Grand Prix Legends 72 in september, http://www.simactu.com/ I haven't got a clue whether it's true or not but if it is it's the news we've all been waiting for :-) Alex

Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh...... wouldnt that be nice :) probably all just rumours tho :/ Ash "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZowG7.29321$[email hidden]... | There are rumours that Sierra France has announced that papy's next simwill

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| be N5 in march 2002 followed by Grand Prix Legends 72 in september, | | http://www.simactu.com/ | | I haven't got a clue whether it's true or not but if it is it's the news | we've all been waiting for :-) | | Alex | |

1972??? What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero. -- Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

Why? Wings! Ash "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... | 1972??? | | What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero. | | -- | Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

1972 because the cars have wide slick tyres, big wings but no ground effects so they still had quite soft suspension, and were maybe a bit underpowered for F1 cars, so they are probably predictable easy and fun to drive. Plus there were some great circuits in use that year http://www.racingcircuits.net/_series/F1/1972.html The year after they had switched from 12 GP's to 15 so that's 25% more work to do all the tracks if they did 73 or 74. In 75 ground effects came along that would take extra work to model properly and would make the cars less enjoyable to drive. The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult, 1972 cars with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 will make it allot easier to learn than GPL. Also if it is true it's most likely that Sierra used the chance to make another labour of love sim as a bargaining tool in getting Papy to do N5 that I'm pretty sure they didn't want to do. Alex "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 1972??? > > What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero. > > -- > Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

It has Watkins Glen with the boot! :) Alex Cameron wrote:

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> > 1972 because the cars have wide slick tyres, big wings but no ground effects > so they still had quite soft suspension, and were maybe a bit underpowered > for F1 cars, so they are probably predictable easy and fun to drive. Plus > there were some great circuits in use that year > http://www.racingcircuits.net/_series/F1/1972.html >

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

If you ever get a chance to see old footage from '72 you'll notice the cars were sideways practically all the time. Plus it was right in the meat of the Cosworth era so you've got close as close to engine parity as you'll ever get, while still having the V12 in the Ferrari along with probably the best sounding F1 engine ever the Matra V12. Many of the UK based teams were practically kit cars with off the shelf engines & gearboxes so this would be a good starting point for a car editor.....

I'd buy it. Sounds too good to be true! Phil. Alex Cameron <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZowG7.29321$[email hidden]... > There are rumours that Sierra France has announced that papy's next simwill

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> be N5 in march 2002 followed by Grand Prix Legends 72 in september, > > http://www.simactu.com/ > > I haven't got a clue whether it's true or not but if it is it's the news > we've all been waiting for :-) > > Alex > >

Zonky said: > 1972??? > > What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero. - The Ring - Brands - Clermont Ferrand - Jarama - �sterreichring - The 'real' Glen - Kyalami - Mosport - JYS - 'Emmo' - 'Regga' - Lauda - Ickx - Peterson - Andretti - Lotus 72 - Tyrrell 005 - Ferrari - McLaren - BRM - wide slicks - WINGs!! - BRM V12 - Matra V12 - Ferrari's flat 12 - and a bunch of DFV's ... Yup! sure sounds like a drag to me... :-) -- ed_ The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!!

>"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult, 1972 cars > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 will make it > allot easier to learn than GPL. It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the years (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the shelves. All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard to find. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Think tho Mr Zonky.... if they do 1972, that still leaves many more years to do in future decades... 1979, 1982, even the start of the V-12 era in the late 80's... dave henrie "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 1972??? > > What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero.

Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but that's not the same thing as selling them.) "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult, 1972cars > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 will makeit

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> > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the years > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the shelves. > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard to find. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

CART CART CART...oh, sorry...F1 F1 F1 !!! Phil Redman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Y9AG7.25453$[email hidden]...

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> I'd buy it. Sounds too good to be true! > > Phil. > > > Alex Cameron <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZowG7.29321$[email hidden]... > > There are rumours that Sierra France has announced that papy's next sim > will > > be N5 in march 2002 followed by Grand Prix Legends 72 in september, > > > > http://www.simactu.com/ > > > > I haven't got a clue whether it's true or not but if it is it's the news > > we've all been waiting for :-) > > > > Alex > > > > > >

Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? Please give us a hint if you know anything :-) Alex "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]...

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> Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but that's > not the same thing as selling them.) > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult, 1972 > cars > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 will make > it > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the

years > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the shelves. > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard tofind.

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> > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

A very rainy Monaco! J-P Beltoise drove the race of his life. Last win for BRM. (Yeah, i was there...and startled the Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race. But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-) Hope GPL2 is real. "Pray" for rain too. arcman Zonky wrote:

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> > 1972??? > > What a completely non-descript year to choose. Believeability? Zero. > > -- > Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

I don't know about the number of copies, but what I can say is that you can still find GPL here in France. BTW, it's not the original package but special low price editions, generally at 99FF (under 15$). That makes me think that GPL did not so bad over the years, although it was not a true hit. The durability of this game and the fact that we still calling for a new version may have lead Papy to give an evolution (hope). AL Alex Cameron <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message : cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]...

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> Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? Please > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > Alex > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but

that's > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult,1972 > > cars > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 willmake

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> > it > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the > years > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the

shelves.

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> > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard to > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:O0GG7.5730$XJ4.3469418 @news1.sttln1.wa.home.com: > Think tho Mr Zonky.... > if they do 1972, that still leaves many more years to do in future > decades... But there is no big killer grasp over 1972. Why not 76? The Tyrrel 6 Wheeler is an F1 iconic image. People would love it. I don't rate this story, sorry. -- Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

But don't you see that's why I rate the story (as well as it having a named source from a sierra office that has a soft spot for GPL) no one would ever make up 1972 if it was a fake it would be 76, 78, even 73 but never 72 I've looked around the internet for GPL2 wishlist's and not one of them mention 72. But if you look at is from a Papy/Sierra perspective 72 is prefect. It would not be a game that would sell allot of copies so it would have to be made as cheaply as possible with existing tools and code. 77+ is out of the question because of the ground effects, that would probably isn't modelled in the N4 physics engine. 73-77 are great seasons especially the last two but there are 14-17 tracks in those years (16 in 76) 72 has only 12 tracks that is allot less work. 70-71 are too early and don't have full slicks. If papy are choosing the cheapest quickest easiest to do season that has big fat slicks and wings, great drivers, tracks and cars they would chose 1972 Alex "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:O0GG7.5730$XJ4.3469418 > @news1.sttln1.wa.home.com: > > > Think tho Mr Zonky.... > > if they do 1972, that still leaves many more years to do in future > > decades... > > But there is no big killer grasp over 1972. > > Why not 76? The Tyrrel 6 Wheeler is an F1 iconic image. People would love > it. I don't rate this story, sorry. > > > -- > Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

Alex, Of course I know, but then I'd have to kill you, bla-bla. What I can say is the disappointingly small number of initial sales has probably doubled over the past three years as surplus stocks have dribbled onto the market. I bought 8 copies of the game from a liquidator recently (Papy never game me any spare copies of the strategy guide I wrote for them); they still had their Electronics Boutique stickers on them, and they looked shop-worn, like they'd been sitting in a warehouse for years...which they probably had. What amazes me is that, despite Sierra's colossal lack of marketing effort, there are a dozen or so people every week who have just discovered GPL, most of whom become fanatic converts. If there is a GPL2, I would think it is due more to (French media giant) Vivendi's awareness that there is a laerge--and growing--cadre of GPL fans in Europe than any insight into the sim audience on Sierra's part here in the U.S. --Steve "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]...

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> Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? Please > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > Alex > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but

that's > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult,1972 > > cars > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 willmake

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> > it > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the > years > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the

shelves.

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> > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard to > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote > But there is no big killer grasp over 1972. Yeah, I figure that somehow, why simply one year? We could have something like "GPL 70's", with the best of the best. 6-wheeler, early aero cars, Lotus 78 (JPS), Ferrari 312T4, March 701, etc... Considering the cost of licensing, why not? I don't see much of a difference, GPL was technically not an "Formula One" simulation, that word appears nowhere in the sim. This way we could have the Gilles Villeneuve circuit, the original Long Beach, the long version of Buenos Aires, Paul Ricard, Montjuich, etc... (replacing tracks like Nivelles, which looks quite boring). But it's probably just a pipe dream ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race. > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-) No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:27:23 GMT, Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Alex, > > > What amazes me is that, despite Sierra's colossal lack of marketing effort, > there are a dozen or so people every week who have just discovered GPL, most > of whom become fanatic converts. >

Same goes for gplrank which averages at around 10 new accounts every single day, quite amazing for a three year old sim ;-) Uwe

Alex Cameron wrote: > > But don't you see that's why I rate the story (as well as it having a named > source from a sierra office that has a soft spot for GPL) no one would ever > make up 1972 if it was a fake it would be 76, 78, even 73 but never 72 I've > looked around the internet for GPL2 wishlist's and not one of them mention > 72. That logic is a bit bonkers. This story has no more credibility than if I was to stick on my web site that I'd just heard a rumour that GPL2 was to be the 1986 season. There's no evidence for any of this at all. Why not just wait until something shows up on the papy site.

I hope that means what I think it means ;-) Anyway GPL can't have sold 'that' badly it is currently outselling Half Life in the UK http://www.vivendi-universal-interactive.co.uk/ChartToppers.asp?MachineCode= IBM&Type=1 (that probably wrapped) Maybe it didn't do well compared to the huge development costs, but it was started from scratch and I think it took 4 or 5 years didn't it? GPL 1972 if they use tools and code they already have would probably be cheap, easy and quick for Papy to put together (compared to GPL 1967). So hopefully they wont need to sell as many copies for it to be seen as a success by Sierra and then we might get a few more GPL's :-) If GPL 1972 is really happening of course. Alex "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%QQG7.33672$[email hidden]...

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> Alex, > > Of course I know, but then I'd have to kill you, bla-bla. > > What I can say is the disappointingly small number of initial sales has > probably doubled over the past three years as surplus stocks have dribbled > onto the market. I bought 8 copies of the game from a liquidator recently > (Papy never game me any spare copies of the strategy guide I wrote for > them); they still had their Electronics Boutique stickers on them, and

they > looked shop-worn, like they'd been sitting in a warehouse foryears...which > they probably had. > > What amazes me is that, despite Sierra's colossal lack of marketingeffort, > there are a dozen or so people every week who have just discovered GPL,most

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> of whom become fanatic converts. > > If there is a GPL2, I would think it is due more to (French media giant) > Vivendi's awareness that there is a laerge--and growing--cadre of GPL fans > in Europe than any insight into the sim audience on Sierra's part here in > the U.S. > > --Steve > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? Please > > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > Alex > >

Stephen Smith wrote: > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but that's > not the same thing as selling them.) Beep! GPL was put on a game magazine cover cd, free for the buyer, but the publisher paid for it (of course, probably not a lot). -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now?

Alex, I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial sales of GPL were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another 1. road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends fared even worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in Hollywood parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French masters that there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't pick 1972, either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marquee value"), but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the present that Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. --Steve "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]...

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> Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? Please > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > Alex > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, but

that's > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so difficult,1972 > > cars > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 willmake

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> > it > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've heard > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over the > years > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the

shelves.

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> > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard to > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Steve, Here's a tip to increase your life expectancy.... The game CD is supposed to go in the CD-ROM drive, not your esophagus. ;-) Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Stephen Smith" wrote... (asterixes by me) > <snip> but I'd gratefully *take* any road-racing sim from 1937 > to the present that Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a > happy man.

Stephen Smith wrote:

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> > Alex, > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial sales of GPL > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another 1. > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends fared even > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in Hollywood > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French masters that > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't pick 1972, > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marquee value"), > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the present that > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man.

Historic touring car sim Alfa Romeo GTA Lotus Cortina Ford Falcon/Galaxie BMW 2000 Mini Cooper S Either that or an early to mid 90's AussieV8 sim, anyone who has seen the battle between Peter Brock and Larry Perkins in the early laps of the rainy 1992 (?) Bathurst 1000 knows how exciting this series can be.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

I did think from your reply that you might know something, but I don't mind to me it adds up and for the moment I'm pretty confident that this leak is real. But if it turns out not to be it's been a fun couple of days and it's renewed my enthusiasm for something new, there's always WSC ;-) Alex "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > Alex, > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial sales ofGPL > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another 1. > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends fared even > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" inHollywood > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French masters that > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't pick 1972, > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marqueevalue"), > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the present that > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > --Steve >

Can-Am? Yassir! Now them was real racin' cars! "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > Alex, > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial salesof GPL > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another1. > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends faredeven > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" inHollywood > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French mastersthat > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't pick1972, > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marqueevalue"), > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the presentthat

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> Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > --Steve > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not?

Please

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> > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > Alex > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe,

but

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> that's > > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so

difficult, > 1972 > > > cars > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4will > make > > > it > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I'veheard > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe overthe > > years > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the > shelves. > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hardto

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> > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. I watched from the Pelouse Rocher to give the palace hill side its proper name -- 40f. The rain turned the paths down into treacherous muddy slides. Women were literally screaming when their guys tried to lead them to safety. I ended up sliding down the hill part of the way so was covered with mud. Saw the end near the gas works. Asked a man with an umbrella -- "who was leading?" This immaculately dressed guy in his 20's took one look at me and just grunted his displeasure at my presence. I went to the Monaco Red Cross and requested that they mobilize the Monaco army (all 20 of them?) to help those damsels get down from the mountain. She smiled at me, but didn't grunt. The race finishes. I am wet, cold and muddy. My rental car is still miles away parked in the exotic garden auxiliary parking lot. My hotel is in Nice. It is getting dark. I am naturally in a hurry to get to hotel and get warm again. I am still delighted that i finally got to see my first MC Grand Prix, but am getting more and more frustrated by the snail pace of the thousands of fans leaving the area of the track -- my observation after 23 visits to GP's in Europe -- The people they Drive Fast but they walk-like-ZOMBIES! So here I am weaving in out of foot traffic on and off the sidewalk, not even looking out for the dog poop when all of a sudden my way is blocked by this big black car with motorcycle escorts. Now I get my Italian/Irish temper up to full revs (the French/English part of the mix is not in control) -- I walk over to the right rear window of that car and I set my face in the worst scowl of contempt that I can muster at the person there in. The Prince recoils at the sight, and I am so embarrassed that I forgot to see if the beautiful Princess Grace was sitting beside him. arcman ymenard wrote:

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> > >"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the > > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race. > > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-) > > No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-) > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am cars, sedans, or tractor pulls from him. Personally, I love endurance racing (more my speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints. For that matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure would like to see that plothound hunt! --Steve "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:670H7.5800$[email hidden]...

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> Can-Am? Yassir! Now them was real racin' cars! > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > > Alex, > > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I > > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial sales > of GPL > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another > 1. > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends fared > even > > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in > Hollywood > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French masters > that > > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't pick > 1972, > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marquee > value"), > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the present > that > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > > > --Steve > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not? > Please > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe, > but > > that's > > > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so > difficult, > > 1972 > > > > cars > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4 > will > > make > > > > it > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. I've > heard > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over > the > > > years > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the > > shelves. > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard > to > > > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Great post, arcman! "Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? > I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. > I watched from the Pelouse Rocher to give the palace > hill side its proper name -- 40f. > The rain turned the paths down into treacherous muddy slides. > Women were literally screaming when their guys tried to lead > them to safety. I ended up sliding down the hill part of the > way so was covered with mud. Saw the end near the gas works. > Asked a man with an umbrella -- "who was leading?" This immaculately > dressed guy in his 20's took one look at me and just grunted > his displeasure at my presence. I went to the Monaco Red Cross > and requested that they mobilize the Monaco army (all 20 of them?) > to help those damsels get down from the mountain. She smiled at > me, but didn't grunt. > The race finishes. I am wet, cold and muddy. My rental car is still > miles away parked in the exotic garden auxiliary parking lot. > My hotel is in Nice. It is getting dark. I am naturally in a > hurry to get to hotel and get warm again. I am still delighted that i > finally got to see my first MC Grand Prix, but am getting more and > more frustrated by the snail pace of the thousands of fans leaving > the area of the track -- my observation after 23 visits to GP's in > Europe -- The people they Drive Fast but they walk-like-ZOMBIES! > So here I am weaving in out of foot traffic on and off the sidewalk, > not even looking out for the dog poop when all of a sudden my way > is blocked by this big black car with motorcycle escorts. Now I get > my Italian/Irish temper up to full revs (the French/English part of > the mix is not in control) -- I walk over to the right rear > window of that car and I set my face in the worst scowl of contempt that > I can muster at the person there in. The Prince recoils at the sight, > and I am so embarrassed that I forgot to see if the beautiful Princess > Grace was sitting beside him. > arcman > > ymenard wrote: > > > > >"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the > > > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race. > > > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-) > > > > No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-) > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Thank you, Mr. Smith! (an esteemed editor said something nice. 37 years ago another editor told me to go away -- I knew he was 'mistaken'(?) -- but if he hadn't done that I wouldn't have been able to go sit on that great muddy hill side, either...) :-) arcman Stephen Smith wrote:

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> > Great post, arcman! > > "Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? > > I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat.

<snip>

If you ask me, it would be preaty logical from Sierra to put new Nascar sim at start of the season. So, at least half of rumor is true. "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G8%G7.8253$[email hidden]... > I did think from your reply that you might know something, but I don'tmind > to me it adds up and for the moment I'm pretty confident that this leak is > real. But if it turns out not to be it's been a fun couple of days andit's > renewed my enthusiasm for something new, there's always WSC ;-) > > Alex >

It isn't so much the endurance racing aspect that attracts me to Can-Am, WSC, LMS, etc. as it is the cars and tracks themselves. The Can-Am series existed when I was just becoming interested in cars as a kid, and I remember thinking that these were serious, no limits race cars. Not quite true, of course, but that's why I have that nostalgia for them, and why I am also attracted to more recent open cockpit/closed wheel formulas. Plus the whole open cockpit/closed wheel thing is great for computer gaming. Think about it - as with open wheelers you can have a true cockpit view but with relatively few obstructions to visibility, but you also have the advantage of the closer racing that is possible with closed wheels. Plus it seems like sports cars in general still race on more interesting (i.e. chicane free) tracks. Oh well, just have to wait for WSC I guess. "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7C1H7.27701$[email hidden]... > Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in > single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am cars,sedans, > or tractor pulls from him. Personally, I love endurance racing (moremy > speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints.For that > matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I surewould

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> like to see that plothound hunt! > > --Steve > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:670H7.5800$[email hidden]... > > Can-Am? Yassir! Now them was real racin' cars! > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > > > Alex, > > > > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's

plans--I > > > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initialsales > > of GPL > > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlightanother > > 1. > > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legendsfared > > even > > > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in > > Hollywood > > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their Frenchmasters > > that > > > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn'tpick > > 1972, > > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more"marquee > > value"), > > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to thepresent

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> > that > > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or

not?

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> > Please > > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > > > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in

Europe,

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> > but > > > that's > > > > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so > > difficult, > > > 1972 > > > > > cars > > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in

N4

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> > will > > > make > > > > > it > > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well.

I've > > heard > > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europeover > > the > > > > years > > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years onthe > > > shelves. > > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are veryhard

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> > to > > > > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato

Dominguez

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> > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

LOL... great story. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Christopher G Rossie" wrote... > Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? > I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. > I watched from the Pelouse Rocher to give the palace > hill side its proper name -- 40f.<snip>

Haq, The thing that *should* interest Papy abt. Can-Am is the panoply of strategic choices that would enhance game-play (never Papy's long suit). The early Can-Am was all abt. innovation, not rules & equivalency formulae: Hall went with wings and auto trannies; Don Nichols had those tiny little titanium cars with monster motors; McLaren had Chevy Rat motors; Hall came back with a long, skinny, low-drag car (a complete bust) and redeemed himself with the sucker car; Huffaker tried--basically--Repco motors; Lola went with the tried & true GT-40 underpinnings in a conventional car; Tony Dean tried the nimble, agile Porsche "Flunder;" Holman, Moody & Andretti tried a Ford J-car roadster (the ill-fated Honker); Ferrari contributed a 512; Posey tried de Dion tubes; etc. Everybody had a different take on the One True Path. In the end, first McLaren, then Penske/Porsche prevailed, but that was *only* in real life. In a sim, at least in a recreation of the early years of the Can-Am, anybody could win...theoretically...and therein lies the game play. It is not the Papyrus "way" to have gimmicks extrinsic to the racing itself (like earning play money to soup up yer car, or proving yerself in Destruction Derbies to earn an FIA Superlicense), they should offer us choices like which car to drive (or, in a F1 sim, the dial-a-lap Turbo Era, or, in CART, a choice between fuel economy or the "overtake" button) which would make life...or the racing itself...interesting. In other words, stuff that has to do with what they're good at--the physics model--and forget all the cute gimmicks like Motor City Online. The play's the thing...as Shakespeare said. --Steve "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8PdH7.9859$[email hidden]...

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> It isn't so much the endurance racing aspect that attracts me to Can-Am, > WSC, LMS, etc. as it is the cars and tracks themselves. The Can-Am > series existed when I was just becoming interested in cars as a kid, and > I remember thinking that these were serious, no limits race cars. Not > quite true, of course, but that's why I have that nostalgia for them, > and why I am also attracted to more recent open cockpit/closed wheel > formulas. Plus the whole open cockpit/closed wheel thing is great for > computer gaming. Think about it - as with open wheelers you can have a > true cockpit view but with relatively few obstructions to visibility, > but you also have the advantage of the closer racing that is possible > with closed wheels. Plus it seems like sports cars in general still > race on more interesting (i.e. chicane free) tracks. Oh well, just have > to wait for WSC I guess. > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7C1H7.27701$[email hidden]... > > Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in > > single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am cars, > sedans, > > or tractor pulls from him. Personally, I love endurance racing (more > my > > speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints. > For that > > matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure > would > > like to see that plothound hunt! > > > > --Steve > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:670H7.5800$[email hidden]... > > > Can-Am? Yassir! Now them was real racin' cars! > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > > > > Alex, > > > > > > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's > plans--I > > > > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial > sales > > > of GPL > > > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight > another > > > 1. > > > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends > fared > > > even > > > > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in > > > Hollywood > > > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French > masters > > > that > > > > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't > pick > > > 1972, > > > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more > "marquee > > > value"), > > > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the > present > > > that > > > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or > not? > > > Please > > > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in > Europe, > > > but > > > > that's > > > > > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so > > > difficult, > > > > 1972 > > > > > > cars > > > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in > N4 > > > will > > > > make > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. > I've > > > heard > > > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe > over > > > the > > > > > years > > > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on > the > > > > shelves. > > > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very > hard > > > to > > > > > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato > Dominguez > > > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars and engine combos... Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 years earlier.. -- ed_ The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!!

Just last night I saw the Brands Hatch Racing Car Club film from 1967. (way to go Speedvision errr Nascarvision) There in all it's glory was the Chapparrall of Phil Hill spanking the world's biggest marques...stirring to see that big wing sitting up there Can Am....I would love to see a well done historical sim of that ... dave henrie "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative carsand

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> engine combos... > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > years earlier.. > > -- > ed_ > The GPLEA > -------------------------------------- > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > Spell it, please. > - E-F-R. > No, no, spell your name. > - E-F-R!! > > > > >

http://uk.geocities.com/usrrc2000/60canam.htm http://uk.geocities.com/usrrc2000/70canam.htm Most beautiful racecar ever built IMO: http://uk.geocities.com/motorracingretro/69laguna/69lag05.jpg - What tracks! - What cars!! - What drivers!!!! "Those were the day's - eh?" -- ed_ The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!!

"Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 years earlier.." LOL! I dunno, Ed--be caredul what you wish for. I *was* born 30 years earlier...and along abt. now I'm wishing it'd been 30 years *later*. --Steve "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative carsand

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> engine combos... > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > years earlier.. > > -- > ed_ > The GPLEA > -------------------------------------- > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > Spell it, please. > - E-F-R. > No, no, spell your name. > - E-F-R!! > > > > >

Dave, My Secret Plan: Every time somebody suggests doing a sim of the Can-Am, some wiseguy points out that the series became so dominated by one marque (first McLaren, then Porsche) that spectator interest waned, the crowds strayed away in droves, and the SCCA cancelled the series (probably the dumbest thing anybody's done since the DoT decommissioned America's biggest single tourist attraction: Route 66...and I don't mean the TV series). Where's the game play in that? It'd be like recreating the 1993 Indy 500: why would anybody want to drive anything but the Penske-Ilmor pushrods? Here's the trick--you bring out a game that recreates THE EARLY YEARS of the Can-Am: 1966 thru 1969. You juggle the play-balance until you have relative parity among the Lola T70, McLaren M1/M6, Chaparral 2E/2G, Lotus 30 (why not?), King Cobra, the Honker, Ferrari 512/612, and the Porsche 908 and early 917. Everybody buys the game 'cuz they assume there's gonna be a sequel (Can-Am Legends 2) and they'll finally get to drive the sucker car, the 917-30, and the M8B...only you never do a sequel! Meanwhile, everybody gets to drive a variety of competitive cars on the most awesome road courses in North American history: a proper Riverside, Bridgehampton, the fast version of Laguna, the "blow-over" versions of St. Jovite & Mosport, the Glen, Elkhart, and Las Vegas (even Road Atlanta, if you wanted to stretch the time frame a little). And here's how you pump the revenue stream: there's a subscription-only Championship series, which everybody signs up for thinking they're getting ready for the later Can-Am years. Team Papyrus fields their own drivers, including Kaemmer, but they're not eligible for points. Everybody wants to see if they can beat the Fastest Gun in Town (Dave K.) and get on the Can-Am Legends 2 beta team. The series is a huge success. Two years later, Papy sells the servers and they all retire to Turks & Caicos, leaving us playing Can-Am 1966-1969 forever. Clever, huh? --Steve "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ahpH7.12600$[email hidden]... > Just last night I saw the Brands Hatch Racing Car Club film from 1967. > (way to go Speedvision errr Nascarvision) There in all it's glory was the > Chapparrall of Phil Hill spanking the world's biggest marques...stirringto

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> see that big wing sitting up there > Can Am....I would love to see a well done historical sim of that ... > dave henrie > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars > and > > engine combos... > > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > years earlier.. > > > > -- > > ed_ > > The GPLEA > > -------------------------------------- > > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > > Spell it, please. > > - E-F-R. > > No, no, spell your name. > > - E-F-R!! > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > The Prince recoils at the sight, > and I am so embarrassed that I forgot to see if the beautiful Princess > Grace was sitting beside him. Priceless, thanks ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Stop it, you're making me drool! "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CWmH7.49383$[email hidden]... > Haq, > > The thing that *should* interest Papy abt. Can-Am is the panoply of > strategic choices that would enhance game-play (never Papy's longsuit). > The early Can-Am was all abt. innovation, not rules & equivalencyformulae: > Hall went with wings and auto trannies; Don Nichols had those tinylittle > titanium cars with monster motors; McLaren had Chevy Rat motors; Hallcame > back with a long, skinny, low-drag car (a complete bust) and redeemed > himself with the sucker car; Huffaker tried--basically--Repco motors;Lola > went with the tried & true GT-40 underpinnings in a conventional car;Tony > Dean tried the nimble, agile Porsche "Flunder;" Holman, Moody &Andretti > tried a Ford J-car roadster (the ill-fated Honker); Ferraricontributed a > 512; Posey tried de Dion tubes; etc. Everybody had a different takeon the > One True Path. In the end, first McLaren, then Penske/Porscheprevailed, > but that was *only* in real life. In a sim, at least in a recreationof the > early years of the Can-Am, anybody could win...theoretically...andtherein > lies the game play. It is not the Papyrus "way" to have gimmicksextrinsic > to the racing itself (like earning play money to soup up yer car, orproving > yerself in Destruction Derbies to earn an FIA Superlicense), theyshould > offer us choices like which car to drive (or, in a F1 sim, thedial-a-lap > Turbo Era, or, in CART, a choice between fuel economy or the"overtake" > button) which would make life...or the racing itself...interesting.In > other words, stuff that has to do with what they're good at--thephysics > model--and forget all the cute gimmicks like Motor City Online. Theplay's

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> the thing...as Shakespeare said. > > --Steve > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8PdH7.9859$[email hidden]... > > It isn't so much the endurance racing aspect that attracts me to

Can-Am, > > WSC, LMS, etc. as it is the cars and tracks themselves. The Can-Am > > series existed when I was just becoming interested in cars as a kid,and > > I remember thinking that these were serious, no limits race cars.Not > > quite true, of course, but that's why I have that nostalgia forthem, > > and why I am also attracted to more recent open cockpit/closed wheel > > formulas. Plus the whole open cockpit/closed wheel thing is greatfor > > computer gaming. Think about it - as with open wheelers you canhave a > > true cockpit view but with relatively few obstructions tovisibility, > > but you also have the advantage of the closer racing that ispossible > > with closed wheels. Plus it seems like sports cars in general still > > race on more interesting (i.e. chicane free) tracks. Oh well, justhave

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> > to wait for WSC I guess. > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:7C1H7.27701$[email hidden]... > > > Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in > > > single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am

cars, > > sedans, > > > or tractor pulls from him. Personally, I love endurance racing(more

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> > my > > > speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints. > > For that > > > matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure > > would > > > like to see that plothound hunt! > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:670H7.5800$[email hidden]... > > > > Can-Am? Yassir! Now them was real racin' cars! > > > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:NYYG7.24953$[email hidden]... > > > > > Alex, > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's > > plans--I > > > > > don't. But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial > > sales > > > > of GPL > > > > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight > > another > > > > 1. > > > > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR

Legends > > fared > > > > even > > > > > worse, I hear). However, the extraordinary "afterlife"("legs" in

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> > > > Hollywood > > > > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French > > masters > > > > that > > > > > there is life left in one or both of these genres. I wouldn't > > pick > > > > 1972, > > > > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more > > "marquee > > > > value"), > > > > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the > > present > > > > that > > > > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man. > > > > > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:cVIG7.2208$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or > > not? > > > > Please > > > > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:HaGG7.20505$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Brrraaaappp! (Wrong. They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in > > Europe, > > > > but > > > > > that's > > > > > > > not the same thing as selling them.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > > news:pYFG7.16340$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so > > > > difficult, > > > > > 1972 > > > > > > > cars > > > > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model

in

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> > N4 > > > > will > > > > > make > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well. > > I've > > > > heard > > > > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in

Europe > > over > > > > the > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 yearson > > the > > > > > shelves. > > > > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they arevery

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> > hard > > > > to > > > > > > find. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato > > Dominguez > > > > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6CuH7.50693$[email hidden]... > Dave, > > My Secret Plan: An EXCELLANT plan Steve...I wonder...would we need a 4th pedal made to activate the flipper wing? dave henrie

Dave, Don't be silly--the 2E only had 2 pedals to begin with (go & stop). Like a bird's claw, the wing was normally deployed in the "gripper" mode; you had to hold it in the low-drag position by pushing on a third pedal (see this month's Road & Track magazine). In Can-Am Legends, you'd simply re-map the clutch pedal to the wing (or use a third button on the wheel). --Steve "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fOJH7.16333$[email hidden]...

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> > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6CuH7.50693$[email hidden]... > > Dave, > > > > My Secret Plan: > An EXCELLANT plan Steve...I wonder...would we need a 4th pedal made to > activate the flipper wing? > dave henrie > >

Let's take it a different approach then. Not so long ago a company had a great idea to make a sim about singleseaters in 1937. Spirit of Speed 1937 I'm talking about. Most of the elements of Cart & F1 would came together in this sim 'cause of the different types of circuits. It was to supposed to be more challenging than GPL 'cause those were even more than a match to handle than GPL cars. And what happened? They blew it. Thinking they would be learning something. No they're not. There latest software release "Paris Dakar" must been build on the same engine as Spirit of Speed 1937 was. No did'nt buy it, but wisely I read some reviews. If Dave Kaemmer is fond of single seaters then I hope that this is something that he's working on. I wish it really. Because the idea was really fantastic. Only the outcome was a bit of shit. Sorry to say that, but unfortunatly it was. Greetings Olaf "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:g7uH7.50609$[email hidden]...

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> "Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > years earlier.." > > LOL! I dunno, Ed--be caredul what you wish for. I *was* born 30 years > earlier...and along abt. now I'm wishing it'd been 30 years *later*. > > --Steve > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars > and > > engine combos... > > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > years earlier.. > > > > -- > > ed_ > > The GPLEA > > -------------------------------------- > > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > > Spell it, please. > > - E-F-R. > > No, no, spell your name. > > - E-F-R!! > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:08:18 -0500, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote >> But there is no big killer grasp over 1972. > > >Yeah, I figure that somehow, why simply one year? We could have something >like "GPL 70's", with the best of the best. 6-wheeler, early aero cars, >Lotus 78 (JPS), Ferrari 312T4, March 701, etc... Considering the cost of >licensing, why not? I don't see much of a difference, GPL was technically >not an "Formula One" simulation, that word appears nowhere in the sim. > > >This way we could have the Gilles Villeneuve circuit, the original Long >Beach, the long version of Buenos Aires, Paul Ricard, Montjuich, etc... >(replacing tracks like Nivelles, which looks quite boring). > > >But it's probably just a pipe dream ;-D

But not a bad dream :) It combines a lot of the best aspects of the 70's whilst not being limited by being true to one particular year. They just pick and choose what works well and leave out all the dead weight (such as the BRM and Honda - nice to have, but does anyone drive them?) Rafe Mc

On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 21:56:58 -0500, Christopher G Rossie <[email hidden]> wrote: >Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? >I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. hehe, good stuff :) At the Australian GP 2 years ago I was wandering about when a fancy Statesman almost ran into me from behind, the driver honked his horn. I turned around, pretty angry, to see that it was Sir Jack Brabham! I quickly jumped out of his way :) Rafe Mc

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> >Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? > >I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. > > hehe, good stuff :) > > At the Australian GP 2 years ago I was wandering about when a fancy > Statesman almost ran into me from behind, the driver honked his horn. > I turned around, pretty angry, to see that it was Sir Jack Brabham! I > quickly jumped out of his way :)

Was this on the roads? Just because he's Sir Jack Brabham, doesn't mean he has a licence to drive like an idiot. Andy -- PC-Based Multimedia System http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms NB: Spamtrap - my name @yahoo.co.uk

You want historic 1930s grand prix cars with an advanced simulator engine under the hood? Try this: http://www.tiresmoke.simracing.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000002.html http://www.tiresmoke.simracing.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000003.html Beta testing is underway right now. The carshapes and in-cockpit views and such are all completed, and our major focus at the moment is physics. You guys are going to like this one, I think! ;-) -- JB "Olaf Thomas van Essen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<9sp81q$71n$[email hidden]>...

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> Let's take it a different approach then. Not so long ago a company had a > great idea to make a sim about singleseaters in 1937. Spirit of Speed 1937 > I'm talking about. Most of the elements of Cart & F1 would came together in > this sim 'cause of the different types of circuits. It was to supposed to be > more challenging than GPL 'cause those were even more than a match to handle > than GPL cars. And what happened? They blew it. Thinking they would be > learning something. No they're not. There latest software release "Paris > Dakar" must been build on the same engine as Spirit of Speed 1937 was. No > did'nt buy it, but wisely I read some reviews. If Dave Kaemmer is fond of > single seaters then I hope that this is something that he's working on. I > wish it really. Because the idea was really fantastic. Only the outcome was > a bit of shit. Sorry to say that, but unfortunatly it was. > > Greetings > > Olaf > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:g7uH7.50609$[email hidden]... > > "Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > years earlier.." > > > > LOL! I dunno, Ed--be caredul what you wish for. I *was* born 30 years > > earlier...and along abt. now I'm wishing it'd been 30 years *later*. > > > > --Steve > > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > > > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > > > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars > and > > > engine combos... > > > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > > > > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > > years earlier.. > > > > > > -- > > > ed_ > > > The GPLEA > > > -------------------------------------- > > > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > > > Spell it, please. > > > - E-F-R. > > > No, no, spell your name. > > > - E-F-R!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Andy Laurence wrote: > > Was this on the roads? Just because he's Sir Jack Brabham, doesn't mean he > has a licence to drive like an idiot. > > Andy Hmmm...better not get in front of Stirling Moss, OBE, who apparently disagrees with you...

> > Was this on the roads? Just because he's Sir Jack Brabham, doesn't meanhe > > has a licence to drive like an idiot. > > Hmmm...better not get in front of Stirling Moss, OBE, who apparently > disagrees with you... I am, quite frankly amazed he's still alive and hasn't killed anyone yet. There's a place for driving fast and like a hooligan - the racetrack. The public roads are not a racetrack (except next week in Wales :-). Andy -- PC-Based Multimedia System http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms NB: Spamtrap - my name @yahoo.co.uk

Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > They just pick and choose what works well and leave out all the dead weight > (such as the BRM and Honda - nice to have, but does anyone drive > them?) The league I run in had a race at Spa last night... there was 3 BRMs, and 2 Hondas which was by no means unusual! Andy

Beautiful! -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? > I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. > I watched from the Pelouse Rocher to give the palace > hill side its proper name -- 40f. > The rain turned the paths down into treacherous muddy slides. > Women were literally screaming when their guys tried to lead > them to safety. I ended up sliding down the hill part of the > way so was covered with mud. Saw the end near the gas works. > Asked a man with an umbrella -- "who was leading?" This immaculately > dressed guy in his 20's took one look at me and just grunted > his displeasure at my presence. I went to the Monaco Red Cross > and requested that they mobilize the Monaco army (all 20 of them?) > to help those damsels get down from the mountain. She smiled at > me, but didn't grunt. > The race finishes. I am wet, cold and muddy. My rental car is still > miles away parked in the exotic garden auxiliary parking lot. > My hotel is in Nice. It is getting dark. I am naturally in a > hurry to get to hotel and get warm again. I am still delighted that i > finally got to see my first MC Grand Prix, but am getting more and > more frustrated by the snail pace of the thousands of fans leaving > the area of the track -- my observation after 23 visits to GP's in > Europe -- The people they Drive Fast but they walk-like-ZOMBIES! > So here I am weaving in out of foot traffic on and off the sidewalk, > not even looking out for the dog poop when all of a sudden my way > is blocked by this big black car with motorcycle escorts. Now I get > my Italian/Irish temper up to full revs (the French/English part of > the mix is not in control) -- I walk over to the right rear > window of that car and I set my face in the worst scowl of contempt that > I can muster at the person there in. The Prince recoils at the sight, > and I am so embarrassed that I forgot to see if the beautiful Princess > Grace was sitting beside him. > arcman > > ymenard wrote: > > > > >"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the > > > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race. > > > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-) > > > > No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-) > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Wow! Is this a personal project or major company? Will it be available at EB in the US? Does it stomp all over Spirit of speed? Do we get to adjust the carburetors and stuff? You gonna announce it here, right? -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You want historic 1930s grand prix cars with an advanced simulator > engine under the hood? Try this: > > http://www.tiresmoke.simracing.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000002.html > > http://www.tiresmoke.simracing.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000003.html > > Beta testing is underway right now. The carshapes and in-cockpit > views and such are all completed, and our major focus at the moment is > physics. You guys are going to like this one, I think! > > ;-) > > -- JB > > "Olaf Thomas van Essen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<9sp81q$71n$[email hidden]>... > > Let's take it a different approach then. Not so long ago a company had a > > great idea to make a sim about singleseaters in 1937. Spirit of Speed 1937 > > I'm talking about. Most of the elements of Cart & F1 would came together in > > this sim 'cause of the different types of circuits. It was to supposed to be > > more challenging than GPL 'cause those were even more than a match to handle > > than GPL cars. And what happened? They blew it. Thinking they would be > > learning something. No they're not. There latest software release "Paris > > Dakar" must been build on the same engine as Spirit of Speed 1937 was. No > > did'nt buy it, but wisely I read some reviews. If Dave Kaemmer is fond of > > single seaters then I hope that this is something that he's working on. I > > wish it really. Because the idea was really fantastic. Only the outcome was > > a bit of shit. Sorry to say that, but unfortunatly it was. > > > > Greetings > > > > Olaf > > > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:g7uH7.50609$[email hidden]... > > > "Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > > years earlier.." > > > > > > LOL! I dunno, Ed--be caredul what you wish for. I *was* born 30 years > > > earlier...and along abt. now I'm wishing it'd been 30 years *later*. > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:g%oH7.15669$[email hidden]... > > > > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was. > > > > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars > > and > > > > engine combos... > > > > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine! > > > > > > > > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30 > > > > years earlier.. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ed_ > > > > The GPLEA > > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > > > > Spell it, please. > > > > - E-F-R. > > > > No, no, spell your name. > > > > - E-F-R!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Will this be available in the uk looks good:) any more info please bill

mark jeangerard wrote: > > Wow! Is this a personal project or major company? Will it be available at EB > in the US? Does it stomp all over Spirit of speed? Do we get to adjust the > carburetors and stuff? You gonna announce it here, right? Uhm, I believe it a Nascar Heat mod...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Yes, correct -- it is a mod for NASCAR Heat. It will be available for FREE as an add-on download. All you need is the full retail version of NASCAR Heat (which means you chaps on the other side of the pond may have to find an importer). And, yes, it DOES stomp all over SoS! ;-) -- JB On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:14:14 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>mark jeangerard wrote: >> >> Wow! Is this a personal project or major company? Will it be available at EB >> in the US? Does it stomp all over Spirit of speed? Do we get to adjust the >> carburetors and stuff? You gonna announce it here, right? > >Uhm, I believe it a Nascar Heat mod...... > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.com > >"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" >--Groucho Marx--

On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:40:25 -0000, "Andy Laurence" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> >Ok. But I think you are just kidding me? >> >I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat. >> >> hehe, good stuff :) >> >> At the Australian GP 2 years ago I was wandering about when a fancy >> Statesman almost ran into me from behind, the driver honked his horn. >> I turned around, pretty angry, to see that it was Sir Jack Brabham! I >> quickly jumped out of his way :) > >Was this on the roads? Just because he's Sir Jack Brabham, doesn't mean he >has a licence to drive like an idiot. > >Andy

No, this was in the corporate area behind the "Brabham" stand actually. Moving his car to a different area or something. I think he was just pushing his way through the crowd slowly, I just didn't hear him come up from behind. Should have got an autograph for my troubles :p Rafe Mc

"John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yes, correct -- it is a mod for NASCAR Heat. It will be available for > FREE as an add-on download. All you need is the full retail version > of NASCAR Heat (which means you chaps on the other side of the pond > may have to find an importer). > > And, yes, it DOES stomp all over SoS! > > ;-) > > -- JB

John, any news on CART Heat, matey? I love the stuff you do, looking forward to that one too!

I second that. Have a story: I'm in slotcars again after few decades break. Choice of system was the 35 years old Carrera Universal or 1:32 (Germans know this for sure :-) Matter of fact, the car models used during this time were the 'actual' F1` cars, you guess what they look like? I had some chat with a highly Carrera involved Chap recently (who is also in Computers) and he has never heard of GPL :-( Hmmm, hopefully they improve on the marketing for GPL2, I wish them a bombastic success. Cya JensSchumi On Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:27:23 GMT, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Alex, > >Of course I know, but then I'd have to kill you, bla-bla. > >What I can say is the disappointingly small number of initial sales has >probably doubled over the past three years as surplus stocks have dribbled >onto the market. I bought 8 copies of the game from a liquidator recently >(Papy never game me any spare copies of the strategy guide I wrote for >them); they still had their Electronics Boutique stickers on them, and they >looked shop-worn, like they'd been sitting in a warehouse for years...which >they probably had. > >What amazes me is that, despite Sierra's colossal lack of marketing effort, >there are a dozen or so people every week who have just discovered GPL, most >of whom become fanatic converts. > >If there is a GPL2, I would think it is due more to (French media giant) >Vivendi's awareness that there is a laerge--and growing--cadre of GPL fans >in Europe than any insight into the sim audience on Sierra's part here in >the U.S. > >--Steve

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

John Bodin wrote:

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> > Yes, correct -- it is a mod for NASCAR Heat. It will be available for > FREE as an add-on download. All you need is the full retail version > of NASCAR Heat (which means you chaps on the other side of the pond > may have to find an importer). > > And, yes, it DOES stomp all over SoS!

But what we REALLY need is an AussieV8 mod.....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Good points, Alex. I buy yer logic. "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qqPG7.4429$[email hidden]... > But don't you see that's why I rate the story (as well as it having anamed > source from a sierra office that has a soft spot for GPL) no one wouldever > make up 1972 if it was a fake it would be 76, 78, even 73 but never 72I've > looked around the internet for GPL2 wishlist's and not one of them mention > 72. > > But if you look at is from a Papy/Sierra perspective 72 is prefect. Itwould > not be a game that would sell allot of copies so it would have to be madeas > cheaply as possible with existing tools and code. 77+ is out of thequestion > because of the ground effects, that would probably isn't modelled in theN4 > physics engine. 73-77 are great seasons especially the last two but there > are 14-17 tracks in those years (16 in 76) 72 has only 12 tracks that is > allot less work. 70-71 are too early and don't have full slicks. > > If papy are choosing the cheapest quickest easiest to do season that hasbig

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> fat slicks and wings, great drivers, tracks and cars they would chose 1972 > > Alex > > "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:O0GG7.5730$XJ4.3469418 > > @news1.sttln1.wa.home.com: > > > > > Think tho Mr Zonky.... > > > if they do 1972, that still leaves many more years to do in future > > > decades... > > > > But there is no big killer grasp over 1972. > > > > Why not 76? The Tyrrel 6 Wheeler is an F1 iconic image. People would

love

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> > it. I don't rate this story, sorry. > > > > > > -- > > Please remove my_pants when replying by email. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) writes:

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>But not a bad dream :) It combines a lot of the best aspects of the >70's whilst not being limited by being true to one particular year. >They just pick and choose what works well and leave out all the dead >weight (such as the BRM and Honda - nice to have, but does anyone >drive them?) > >Rafe Mc

I'm in one league(COBRHA) that uses Coopers, Hondas, and BRMs exclusively... I'm also in a league that uses a 'money system'. The BRM is the default car if you can't afford anything else.. :) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.