GPL, Monza, Cars, Elvis, Las Vegas

Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. So here are my best laps: 1:38.865 cooper 1:38.661 eagle 1:38.203 ferrari What the F ?? How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower? And in addition I recorded 3 other laps of 1:38 or 1:39. I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto Racing Movie ever made - Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not quite clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, very instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! Maybe I need a different training regime? IB

Nono! Those are VERY competitive time...uhmmm when did you say you were going to be racing online??? ;) (yes I know, I'm a bad bad boy) dave henrie "Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > So here are my best laps: > > 1:38.865 cooper > 1:38.661 eagle > 1:38.203 ferrari > > What the F ?? > > How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower? >

Best thing to do is watch the replay that comes with the game and take note of what they are doing differently. "Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (31 lines)

> Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > > So here are my best laps: > > 1:38.865 cooper > > 1:38.661 eagle > > 1:38.203 ferrari > > What the F ?? > > How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower? > > And in addition I recorded 3 other laps of 1:38 or 1:39. > > I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto Racing > Movie ever made - > > Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not quite > clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, very > instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! > > Maybe I need a different training regime? > > IB

"Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. Do the cars sound different? Also what are the maximum reves you can reach in each of them? The reason I ask is your times are very similar to F2 lap times. The F2 cars, or Advanced Trainers, have a rev limit of about 8000 and all sound the same. The F1 cars all have different sounds and rev limits. Out of interest what sort of controller are you using? Finally welcome to GPL, we have another victim ;) Cheers Phil Lee Legends Central Admin http://www.legendscentral.com

On 24 Oct 2001 15:51:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > >So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in >various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in >performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is >way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > >So here are my best laps: > >1:38.865 cooper > >1:38.661 eagle > >1:38.203 ferrari

These times are abnormal slow, I can drive backwards faster than that :) Something must be wrong - either you selected F2 cars instead of F1 cars in GPL, or maybe you gas pedal isn't working correctly. Recalibrate, compare your engine sound to that of a monza replay and ditch that 'Eldred P: The secrets of my GPL succes' manual :) After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. Andre

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:37:00 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: >After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes >between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. > >Andremmmm. i still haven't broken 1.31 after much longer than a 'couple of hours'. either that says something about your estimation of the difficulty or maybe I should stop playing gpl. i't seems that long time gpl players with years of low gplranks have forgotten how difficult it really was. we are constantly being encouraged to practise a coupla hours or download somebody's setup and expect improvements. after a few months, i still suck at gpl. worse still. I can't even get close to my joypad laptimes after 3 months of playing with my MS FF wheel. then again, i think all the time spent on F1RC the last 3 months hurt my driving technique in gpl. oh well... Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

Err... too many cheeseburgers? You need those blue suede driving shoes to get 1:30's. -- Peter H GPL sucks ... you in ;-) "Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto Racing > Movie ever made - > > Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not quite > clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, very > instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! > > Maybe I need a different training regime? > > IB

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:24:21 +0200, istoff <> wrote: >i't seems that long time gpl players with years of low gplranks have >forgotten how difficult it really was. we are constantly being >encouraged to practise a coupla hours or download somebody's setup and >expect improvements. For some people it takes months/years to get into the '30s, some people drive 28's a couple of days after buying GPL (it happened more than once I got beaten by someone who only had GPL for a short while) That's the reason I was giving a 1:30-1:33 range. I was in the 27s within a year after buying GPL, but then I again I played it a couple of hours each day, mostly on Monza, so that's still pretty sad :( Andre

<istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:37:00 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes > >between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. > > > >Andre > mmmm. i still haven't broken 1.31 after much longer than a 'couple of > hours'. >

It depends on the person only form the very beginning I loved Monza and after few days I had 1.28.54, now I have 1.26 with Lotus and Eagle, and I think Monza is one of my favourite tracks :) BTW in our polish hotlap site 45 drivers has times under 1.30 at Monza so it not should be very hard... Richie Polish GPL Offline and Online Leagues --> http://gpl.tenbit.pl

"Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc.[snip] Best tip I can give you, as a rookie myself, is this: Now you tried Monza, and you had soem fun, go drive on other tracks. I think one of the best to start with is Watkins Glen. Go practice there for a while. And maybe pick a single car to learn to begin with, so you learn it's limits well. When you have practiced a lot, and can't get quicker, move on to the next track, (maybe monza again, or maybe Kyalami) and drive that. And the you can go back, nd you wil have learned something new, that will make you quicker at WG. That's what I did anyway, and I think it helped me. First after I had set times on all tracks in the cooper, I moved on to some other cars, (Ferrari and Eagle) and started all over again, now with better skills and better cars, I go a lot faster. But only at one track at a time, since I'm racing in a league and concentrate my training on the next event. So thats a tip too. Join a league, that will keep you motivated. Oh, and the most important tip of them all. Relax and drive slowly. That is to say, if you start of putting the pedal to the metal, you will spin and you will have real trouble learning the right lines and braking points, plus you never find the rythm. So start of driving some laps slowly, and newer get higher than third gear, and slowly speed up in the first section, then the second until you know the track very well, then speed even more up and lear the limits of the car and track without going off too much. Well, that's what I'm doing anway, but I have only been at it or a couple of months. But it has gotten my Rank down from 350 (first upload) to now just over 70. With all but too tracks under 107% (Mosport and Spa, which I haven't really given a go yet) Joakim

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

Quoted text (23 lines)

>On 24 Oct 2001 15:51:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) >wrote: > >>Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. >> >>So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in >>various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in >>performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is >>way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. >> >>So here are my best laps: >> >>1:38.865 cooper >> >>1:38.661 eagle >> >>1:38.203 ferrari > >These times are abnormal slow, I can drive backwards faster than that >:) Something must be wrong - either you selected F2 cars instead of F1 >cars in GPL, or maybe you gas pedal isn't working correctly. >Recalibrate, compare your engine sound to that of a monza replay and >ditch that 'Eldred P: The secrets of my GPL succes' manual :)

Heyy...! >After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes >between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. 1:30?!? after only a couple of hours? Shit, it took me(and I'm sure others) a LOT longer than that... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <9r95ni$nf3$[email hidden]>, "Piotr 'Richie' Oblicki" <[email hidden]> writes: >It depends on the person only form the very beginning I loved Monza and >after few days I had 1.28.54, now I have 1.26 with Lotus and Eagle, and I >think Monza is one of my favourite tracks :) > I *still* don't have a 1:28.54 - 2 years later... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Oh my God.... I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the hell cares? You win trophies for winning races.......period. While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! So, there....that proves my point I think? Tom Pabst "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (28 lines)

> On 24 Oct 2001 15:51:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) > wrote: > > >Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > > >So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > >various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > >performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > >way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > > > >So here are my best laps: > > > >1:38.865 cooper > > > >1:38.661 eagle > > > >1:38.203 ferrari > > These times are abnormal slow, I can drive backwards faster than that > :) Something must be wrong - either you selected F2 cars instead of F1 > cars in GPL, or maybe you gas pedal isn't working correctly. > Recalibrate, compare your engine sound to that of a monza replay and > ditch that 'Eldred P: The secrets of my GPL succes' manual :) > > After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes > between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. > > Andre

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> Oh my God.... > > I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have > never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in > practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the > hell cares? > > You win trophies for winning races.......period. > > While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been > beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! > So, there....that proves my point I think?

Time to unprove it then. In the very competetive league I'm in, along with Andre, I'm also among the slowest with typical race laps around 1:31-33 at Monza. Instead of speed I try to keep consistent instead, which means I usually finish the races from 4th and downwards. So, please tell me (and not Andre :) what you do to win with slow laps. I know, hotshoes crash a lot, but some hotshoes in leagues are fast and consistend. Difficult stuff. But I agree with you in general though. Consistecy is way more important than sheer speed.

Quoted text (37 lines)

> Tom Pabst > > > > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On 24 Oct 2001 15:51:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) > > wrote: > > > > >Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > > > > >So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > > >various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > > >performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > > >way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > > > > > >So here are my best laps: > > > > > >1:38.865 cooper > > > > > >1:38.661 eagle > > > > > >1:38.203 ferrari > > > > These times are abnormal slow, I can drive backwards faster than that > > :) Something must be wrong - either you selected F2 cars instead of F1 > > cars in GPL, or maybe you gas pedal isn't working correctly. > > Recalibrate, compare your engine sound to that of a monza replay and > > ditch that 'Eldred P: The secrets of my GPL succes' manual :) > > > > After a couple of hours practice, you should be able to do laptimes > > between 1:30-1:33 at Monza, especially in an Eagle or Lotus. > > > > Andre > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Um... How many online Monza races have you won Tom? You certainly wouldn't have won any of the last dozens of races I've run there. I finish 95% of the races I start and I certainly run faster than 1:33's (usually 29's and 28's). Sure, some guys show up, run 1:27's in qual then quit if they have any bad luck, but not everybody. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n8YB7.70089$[email hidden]... > Oh my God.... > > I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. Ihave > never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in > practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who andthe

Quoted text (9 lines)

> hell cares? > > You win trophies for winning races.......period. > > While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been > beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! > So, there....that proves my point I think? > > Tom Pabst

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:40:35 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>Oh my God.... > >I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have >never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in >practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the >hell cares? > >You win trophies for winning races.......period. > >While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been >beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! >So, there....that proves my point I think? > >Tom Pabst

I guess you were just bloody lucky then, winning online races at monza with no laps faster than 1.33.. Maybe in the beginning of GPL that would be possible, but nowadays anyone on VROC drives below 1:30 on Monza.. and yes, half of the pack drops out before the race is finished in these pickup races, but what is the fun of winning a race only because other people who drive at the limit don't make it to the finish? In pickup races I don't care for winning, I want to have good battles with people, driving at the top of my limit. League races are something else, I want to finish and win those to get the points. But there are some fast people in my league, making it necessary for me to drive my balls off during the races :) Andre

Understanding the car is much more important than the track. Sticking with one track just won't do it. 1. stick with one mark until your good especially the Lotus beacause if you can handle that well the other cars will be much easier to handle after that. Practice your: 2. braking at Silverstone 3. fast corners at Spa 4. elevation braking at the Ring or Mosport I've found that progressively applying the brake is better than pumping it (you can apply more brake relative to the speed of the car). You should be able to control-brake at least 1/3rd of the way inside the braking zone (that dirty mark heading towards a corner) I'm nor bril but then again I'm not bad - GPLrank -24.98 (I think :)) Another point, making the car 'loose' won't make u go any faster the wheels will spin off the power and u will have less control. It's the easiest thing a newbie tries 'cause the car don't seem to turn proper, know what I mean! Alan "Everyone wants to be fast that is why the brake is the hardest lesson to learn 'cause who wants to stop"

Thanks for your interest! I use a thrustmaster FF wheel and pedals. I'll check out the formula 2 theory, but the selection screen shows F1. And I still think its peculiar that the laptimes are soooo close! rgds IB "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<BaPB7.95116$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (25 lines)

> "Ivor Bigunn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > > various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > > performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > > way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > > > Do the cars sound different? Also what are the maximum reves you can reach > in each of them? > > The reason I ask is your times are very similar to F2 lap times. The F2 > cars, or Advanced Trainers, have a rev limit of about 8000 and all sound the > same. The F1 cars all have different sounds and rev limits. > > Out of interest what sort of controller are you using? > > Finally welcome to GPL, we have another victim ;) > > Cheers > > Phil Lee > > Legends Central Admin > http://www.legendscentral.com

Ivor Bigunn wrote: > I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto Racing > Movie ever made - > > Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not quite > clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, very > instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! Now you're talking, I remember this one - Elvis beats Ann-Margaret in a talent show to win money to replace his engine for the upcoming endurance race around Vegas, complete with the Le Mans-style start. It looked like a 12-hour race, and they didn't even need to swap drivers. And you've gotta love the evil, Italian Count in the Ferrari who tears off his rear view mirror and states, "What is behind me is of no concern". Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

"Ivor Bigunn" wrote... > Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza > in various cars, which are supposed to be significantly > different in performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can > feel it: the Cooper is way down on power, but is easy to chuck > around, etc. I wouldn't say significant. There is an unmistakable difference in feel, but in overall performance the difference only starts to tell much nearer to the edge of the performance envelope. Like you sort of pointed out yourself, the differences level out up to a certain point.

Quoted text (13 lines)

> So here are my best laps: > > 1:38.865 cooper > > 1:38.661 eagle > > 1:38.203 ferrari > > What the F ?? > > How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower? > > And in addition I recorded 3 other laps of 1:38 or 1:39.

That is indeed a good question, one answer might be inadvertantly driving an F2 (Advanced Trainer in the game) or an FD (GP chassis with Advanced Trainer engine courtesy of Gem+). If that's not the case and you are indeed running F1 (Grand Prix in the game) there could be dozens of things which influence your performance. A lot of good things have already been said here (some destructive advice as well), but, as someone who's gotten where he is in simracing today the hard way (which is not that far ;-( ), let me try to add some more stuff. Don't get me wrong, this is not the way I did it. I went in at the deep end and nearly frustrated myself out of the simracing business altogether until I got smart and started working methodically. So this is how I think I could have gotten to my current level faster. An obvious one is setup, fuel load to be more precise. 45 gallons of gas weighs about 135kg, enough to take the edge off any car, especially on the default setup and in the hands of a relative novice. I recommend about 15 gallons to practise on... that's enough to make the cars slightly more mellow untill you really get some heat into the tyres, but not enough to seriously impact accelleration and braking. I don't know whether you're running the game as is or not, but it's something experienced users would take for granted and is therefore worth pointing out. With that checked off, let's move onto controller setup. Wheel users should use full linear in the control options, full stop, no debate. Whether one uses a fairly high steering ratio in setup + steering hack in core.ini or the reverse (low ratio and steering hack off) is a matter of personal preference and is dependant upon the following item. Force Feedback. There are many preferences as to how to set it up (general consensus has it to turn off centering spring for GPL, though), but a basic error most people make at first is to set it too strong to create an illusion of stability and "to really feel what's going on". Wrong. Certainly at a stage where one's style/skill/car&track knowledge is not fully developed and one's responding to the car more often than pre-empting it, there is no benifit to it other than immersion. Before economy of movement is learned/acchieved (even slight corrections just eat up time, believe me) turn FF down (not off). That stops it from feeding back into the steering and making the car harder to control than it really is. Later, when you've got the car set up to suit your style as well as to the line you want to drive and you're not as likely to overcorrect, you can turn it back up in increments to make subtle clues "louder". Tertio, pick a car and a Kyalami setup you're reasonably comfortable with and start practising, using only that car and only that setup (copy it to other tracks). Don't change a thing, just drive the tracks from a known base. Ferrari, Cooper or Eagle are your best bets for his stage IMO, as I find Lotus and Brabham are too nervous and unforgiving and the BRM, while nice to drive, is just too slow to keep this part fun. Honda might be good if it happens to suit your style. Continue until your times stabilise, i.e. you can do 10 consecutive laps to within a second at will (3 laps within 10 secs at the Ring) at a speed where any increase will see you starting to make mistakes. During this excercise try to concentrate on 3 things: 1) what the car does right, 2) what the car doesn't do right, 3) how you would like the car to handle in situations where 2) is the case. Now head on over to Richard Nunnini's pages (http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/index.html). While you can read them now and perhaps get something out of it, reading them after practising will see you reading with a purpose, which will carry their message across more clearly. Depending on which setup you chose at the start you might be shocked to read certain parameters should be more or less "locked in" by the attributes of your car. On the one hand you shouldn't really worry about this, as nothing about setup is written in stone, certainly not in GPL where you can't damage the car by running a "wrong" setup on it (through just driving it, going off is not good using any setup). On the other hand, "correct" settings enhance your car's ability to stick to the road, while "wrong" ones deteriorate it (but perhaps resulting in a seemingly more comfortable car to drive). As ever compromise is the name of the game. It's better to sacrifice something and be consistent than have a theoretically really quick setup you can't keep on the road. Once you've digested that more practise follows. But now the pattern is "I'm changing *this* setting, because I want *that* aspect of the handling to change in *this* way". Change one thing at a time (or keep the setup and pick another car with a more natural tendency to exhibit a certain characteristic) and warm up the car before making an assesment. Be aware that to use a certain setting, a slight change in driving style might be required (the purpose of the earlier "dumb" lapping is to help you envisage that change, as you can't do what you can't "see" yourself doing, see also "further reading"), which in turn might prompt another setup change and so on. The real learning begins here and never ends. The incremental benifits will get smaller, but the journey of discovery remains and this, to me, is one of the best aspects of GPL.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto > Racing Movie ever made - > > Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not > quite clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, > very instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! > > Maybe I need a different training regime?

While there may be some things to be picked up from the King, showmanship for one, I wouldn't recommend him as an example in (simulated) motorracing. If you find yourself wanting to increase your knowledge of real and, by extension, simulated motor racing (cars may be virtual, but the demands and pressures of racing are similar), here's some recommended reading. Carroll Smith: "Drive to Win" and "Tune to Win". Anyone who hasn't read these is at a disadvantage when taking to the track. Keep in mind though the information in these books pertains to *aero* cars and therefore is not totally applicable to GPL. Paul Frere: "Sports Car and Competition Driving", covers some known ground, but reveals some real life consistency tricks which don't cost a lot in terms of lap time. Piero Taruffi: "The Techique of Motor Racing and" Dennis Jenkinson: "The Racing Driver". Read about the drivers who inspired the GPL era generation and realise this era forms the late stages of the driver and early beginnings of the designer being a major factor in dictating the speed of the car. Also note the discussion on the amount and the distribution of effort in "The Racing Driver", also known as the "10ths-principle". Keith Code: "Twist of the Wrist I & II", or the zen of motorracing. Keith Code discusses bikes, but, in part one, teaches you to think about your line and your technique and, in part two, how to efficiently distribute your attention in a racing situation. Mike Spick: "The Ace Factor", haven't actually been able to aquire this one, but I have it on good authority it is insightfull for developing a winning attitude, for, weird as it sounds, if you don't truly believe you can win, you won't. If you have a technical/scientific background you might also enjoy (though applicability to sims is minimal) Carroll Smith's "Prepare to Win" and "Engineer to Win" (which are most notable for making one realise racing cars are designed and adapted to be driven in a certain way) and Milliken & Milliken's "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" (find out how GPL works!! ;-)). Anyhow, HTH. Jan. =---

On 24 Oct 2001 15:51:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) wrote: >Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > >So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in >various cars, -snip- LOL! That's a good way of describing a "new career" in GPL :))

Wow Jan...this one should be kept for the archives!!! Marc "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> "Ivor Bigunn" wrote... > > Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza > > in various cars, which are supposed to be significantly > > different in performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can > > feel it: the Cooper is way down on power, but is easy to chuck > > around, etc. > > I wouldn't say significant. There is an unmistakable difference in feel,

but > in overall performance the difference only starts to tell much nearer tothe > edge of the performance envelope. Like you sort of pointed out yourself,the

Quoted text (17 lines)

> differences level out up to a certain point. > > > So here are my best laps: > > > > 1:38.865 cooper > > > > 1:38.661 eagle > > > > 1:38.203 ferrari > > > > What the F ?? > > > > How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower? > > > > And in addition I recorded 3 other laps of 1:38 or 1:39. > > That is indeed a good question, one answer might be inadvertantly driving

an > F2 (Advanced Trainer in the game) or an FD (GP chassis with AdvancedTrainer > engine courtesy of Gem+). If that's not the case and you are indeedrunning > F1 (Grand Prix in the game) there could be dozens of things whichinfluence > your performance. A lot of good things have already been said here (some > destructive advice as well), but, as someone who's gotten where he is in > simracing today the hard way (which is not that far ;-( ), let me try toadd > some more stuff. Don't get me wrong, this is not the way I did it. I wentin

Quoted text (14 lines)

> at the deep end and nearly frustrated myself out of the simracing business > altogether until I got smart and started working methodically. So this is > how I think I could have gotten to my current level faster. > > An obvious one is setup, fuel load to be more precise. 45 gallons of gas > weighs about 135kg, enough to take the edge off any car, especially on the > default setup and in the hands of a relative novice. I recommend about 15 > gallons to practise on... that's enough to make the cars slightly more > mellow untill you really get some heat into the tyres, but not enough to > seriously impact accelleration and braking. I don't know whether you're > running the game as is or not, but it's something experienced users would > take for granted and is therefore worth pointing out. > > With that checked off, let's move onto controller setup. Wheel users

should

Quoted text (7 lines)

> use full linear in the control options, full stop, no debate. Whether one > uses a fairly high steering ratio in setup + steering hack in core.ini or > the reverse (low ratio and steering hack off) is a matter of personal > preference and is dependant upon the following item. Force Feedback. There > are many preferences as to how to set it up (general consensus has it to > turn off centering spring for GPL, though), but a basic error most people > make at first is to set it too strong to create an illusion of stability

and > "to really feel what's going on". Wrong. Certainly at a stage where one's > style/skill/car&track knowledge is not fully developed and one'sresponding > to the car more often than pre-empting it, there is no benifit to it other > than immersion. Before economy of movement is learned/acchieved (evenslight > corrections just eat up time, believe me) turn FF down (not off). Thatstops > it from feeding back into the steering and making the car harder tocontrol > than it really is. Later, when you've got the car set up to suit yourstyle

Quoted text (12 lines)

> as well as to the line you want to drive and you're not as likely to > overcorrect, you can turn it back up in increments to make subtle clues > "louder". > > > Tertio, pick a car and a Kyalami setup you're reasonably comfortable with > and start practising, using only that car and only that setup (copy it to > other tracks). Don't change a thing, just drive the tracks from a known > base. Ferrari, Cooper or Eagle are your best bets for his stage IMO, as I > find Lotus and Brabham are too nervous and unforgiving and the BRM, while > nice to drive, is just too slow to keep this part fun. Honda might be good > if it happens to suit your style. Continue until your times stabilise,

i.e. > you can do 10 consecutive laps to within a second at will (3 laps within10 > secs at the Ring) at a speed where any increase will see you starting to > make mistakes. During this excercise try to concentrate on 3 things: 1)what > the car does right, 2) what the car doesn't do right, 3) how you wouldlike > the car to handle in situations where 2) is the case. > > Now head on over to Richard Nunnini's pages > (http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/index.html). While you can read them > now and perhaps get something out of it, reading them after practisingwill > see you reading with a purpose, which will carry their message across more > clearly. Depending on which setup you chose at the start you might be > shocked to read certain parameters should be more or less "locked in" bythe > attributes of your car. On the one hand you shouldn't really worry about > this, as nothing about setup is written in stone, certainly not in GPLwhere > you can't damage the car by running a "wrong" setup on it (through just > driving it, going off is not good using any setup). On the other hand, > "correct" settings enhance your car's ability to stick to the road, while > "wrong" ones deteriorate it (but perhaps resulting in a seemingly more > comfortable car to drive). As ever compromise is the name of the game.It's > better to sacrifice something and be consistent than have a theoretically > really quick setup you can't keep on the road. > > Once you've digested that more practise follows. But now the pattern is"I'm > changing *this* setting, because I want *that* aspect of the handling to > change in *this* way". Change one thing at a time (or keep the setup and > pick another car with a more natural tendency to exhibit a certain > characteristic) and warm up the car before making an assesment. Be aware > that to use a certain setting, a slight change in driving style might be > required (the purpose of the earlier "dumb" lapping is to help youenvisage

Quoted text (17 lines)

> that change, as you can't do what you can't "see" yourself doing, see also > "further reading"), which in turn might prompt another setup change and so > on. The real learning begins here and never ends. The incremental benifits > will get smaller, but the journey of discovery remains and this, to me, is > one of the best aspects of GPL. > > > I mean, I had prepped myself by watching the Greatest Auto > > Racing Movie ever made - > > > > Yes, Viva Las Vegas, - to absorb some tips from the King! (Not > > quite clear what formula Elvis was racing in, but none the less, > > very instructive). And those close-ups of Anne-Margaret's chassis!! > > > > Maybe I need a different training regime? > > While there may be some things to be picked up from the King, showmanship > for one, I wouldn't recommend him as an example in (simulated)

motorracing. > > If you find yourself wanting to increase your knowledge of real and, by > extension, simulated motor racing (cars may be virtual, but the demandsand > pressures of racing are similar), here's some recommended reading. > > Carroll Smith: "Drive to Win" and "Tune to Win". Anyone who hasn't read > these is at a disadvantage when taking to the track. Keep in mind thoughthe > information in these books pertains to *aero* cars and therefore is not > totally applicable to GPL. > > Paul Frere: "Sports Car and Competition Driving", covers some knownground,

Quoted text (12 lines)

> but reveals some real life consistency tricks which don't cost a lot in > terms of lap time. > > Piero Taruffi: "The Techique of Motor Racing and" Dennis Jenkinson: "The > Racing Driver". Read about the drivers who inspired the GPL era generation > and realise this era forms the late stages of the driver and early > beginnings of the designer being a major factor in dictating the speed of > the car. Also note the discussion on the amount and the distribution of > effort in "The Racing Driver", also known as the "10ths-principle". > > Keith Code: "Twist of the Wrist I & II", or the zen of motorracing. Keith > Code discusses bikes, but, in part one, teaches you to think about your

line > and your technique and, in part two, how to efficiently distribute your > attention in a racing situation. > > Mike Spick: "The Ace Factor", haven't actually been able to aquire thisone,

Quoted text (7 lines)

> but I have it on good authority it is insightfull for developing a winning > attitude, for, weird as it sounds, if you don't truly believe you can win, > you won't. > > If you have a technical/scientific background you might also enjoy (though > applicability to sims is minimal) Carroll Smith's "Prepare to Win" and > "Engineer to Win" (which are most notable for making one realise racing

cars

Quoted text (9 lines)

> are designed and adapted to be driven in a certain way) and Milliken & > Milliken's "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" (find out how GPL works!! ;-)). > > Anyhow, HTH. > > Jan. > =--- > >

I was planning to draw from it in similar, future situations... ;-) Jan. =--- "Marc Collins" wrote... > Wow Jan...this one should be kept for the archives!!! > > Marc

In article <b55C7.17701$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Mike Spick: "The Ace Factor", haven't actually been able to aquire this >one, >> but I have it on good authority it is insightfull for developing a winning >> attitude, for, weird as it sounds, if you don't truly believe you can win, >> you won't. I never saw Jan's original post, but: Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster than you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you can win. Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> <snip> > I never saw Jan's original post, but: > Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be > close in performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are > 5-6 seconds faster than you at a particular track, and they keep > it on the track, there's no WAY you can win. > Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force > someone into a mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed.

Wrong interpretation... it means you have be focused to do everything within your power to win/finish as high as possible. If you resign yourself to losing you won't be ready to take advantage when the opportunity presents itself. What's more, if you allow yourself to lose the drive to win, you'll start slipping back even further than you already might be. You have to "want" to lead, "want" to win, otherwise you'll get yourself all in knots when you do get a break and won't be able to pull it off. You must have had "one that got away"... think back to exactly what made you lose the plot. I'm sure it wasn't because of keeping focus and solid lapping on your part. Trust me, I thought it was bogus too but, to my amazement, I found it really isn't. Back when I still objectively thought: "well, if this and that happens, I might win this", I actually didn't win a thing. Even when reality exceeded my wildest fantasies and I really should have. Marko Vittanen spurred me into forcing myself to "believe" and, while I haven't won that much to date, I did start winning once in a while and, most importantly, started bringing home more solid finishes. YMMV, of course, but I'm "a believer" now. I race to win. Every time, all the time. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Wow! You guys really take your GPL seriously!! I do sincerely appreciate the suggestions - much much better than some groups where newbies simply get flamed. In fact i had figured out that turning down the FF was a help, because it occasionally disappears with a THrustmaster wheel, and then I seemed to find things easier. ( A bit depressing considering how much extra FF costs!!). I will try the other suggestions also. But my original post was supposed to be lighthearted, with the little joke about learning to drive from watching Elvis in Viva Las Vegas (Ha! Ha!), but I guess joking about GPL here is a bit dangerous!! (I had consumed a couple of beers at the time, in an attempt to further reduce my Monza Laptimes!! What do you guys find, faster or slower when rat-assed?) Anyway, thanks again, IB

Ivor Bigunn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> Ok, so i'm a GPL newbie. > > So I spend an hour last night driving by ass off around Monza in > various cars, which are supposed to be significantly different in > performance. And in fact they are, 'cause I can feel it: the Cooper is > way down on power, but is easy to chuck around, etc. > > So here are my best laps: > > 1:38.865 cooper > > 1:38.661 eagle > > 1:38.203 ferrari > > What the F ?? > > How come I can reach 1:38 but no lower?

It ain't what you drive, it's the way you drive it. :-) Jonny

"Ivor Bigunn" wrote... > Wow! You guys really take your GPL seriously!! Well, I do, but that is not to imply GPL is only for the "serious" simracer. It's your copy and your PC for you to enjoy in any manner you see fit. It's just, due to the longlevity of the title "we" are now facing situations where laptime difference in online racing are measured in tenths and hundreths of seconds at the sharp end, a level where all aspects of racing become important. It gets to a point where, if you don't take care about a certain area, someone else will and lap your ass. I've had to unlearn many bad habits to remain somewhat competitive. > I do sincerely appreciate the suggestions - much much better > than some groups where newbies simply get flamed. There's nothing we love better than destroying other peoples lives by getting them hooked on GPL, believe me. Our actions may seem charitable, but there's an evil intent behind them. ;-) > In fact i had figured out that turning down the FF was a > help, because it occasionally disappears with a THrustmaster > wheel, and then I seemed to find things easier. ( A bit > depressing considering how much extra FF costs!!). I will try > the other suggestions also. FF is a consistency tool. In that respect it outshines "analog" wheels. > But my original post was supposed to be lighthearted, with the > little joke about learning to drive from watching Elvis in Viva > Las Vegas (Ha! Ha!), but I guess joking about GPL here is a bit > dangerous!! Not at all, there have been some simply hilarious posts taking the mickey out of the GPL phenomenon and from drivers commenting on their own and eachothers performance. For me personally, although I sort of guessed there wasn't much to be learned from the King's driving, your reference cleared my head by about two feet. > (I had consumed a couple of beers at the time, in an attempt to > further reduce my Monza Laptimes!! What do you guys find, faster > or slower when rat-assed?) I have heard a moderate intake does help one's driving to "flow" when outside influences leave one uptight or stressed, but I don't know of anyone who uses it as a matter of course. > Anyway, thanks again, You're welcome. Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Ivor Bigunn) writes: >But my original post was supposed to be lighthearted, with the little >joke about learning to drive from watching Elvis in Viva Las Vegas >(Ha! Ha!), but I guess joking about GPL here is a bit dangerous!! (I >had consumed a couple of beers at the time, in an attempt to further >reduce my Monza Laptimes!! What do you guys find, faster or slower >when rat-assed?) "rat-assed"??? You guys sure have such interesting expressions...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <n8YB7.70089$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (12 lines)

>Oh my God.... > >I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have >never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in >practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the >hell cares? > >You win trophies for winning races.......period. > >While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been >beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! >So, there....that proves my point I think?

Yeah - it proves that you're not running with the same people *I'm* running with. I've been in races where I haven't run SLOWER than 1:30's, never go off the track, and STILL lose by more than half a lap(11 lap race). Who are YOU racing with? I need to join some of those... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (20 lines)

>Wrong interpretation... it means you have be focused to do everything within >your power to win/finish as high as possible. If you resign yourself to >losing you won't be ready to take advantage when the opportunity presents >itself. What's more, if you allow yourself to lose the drive to win, you'll >start slipping back even further than you already might be. You have to >"want" to lead, "want" to win, otherwise you'll get yourself all in knots >when you do get a break and won't be able to pull it off. You must have had >"one that got away"... think back to exactly what made you lose the plot. >I'm sure it wasn't because of keeping focus and solid lapping on your part. > >Trust me, I thought it was bogus too but, to my amazement, I found it really >isn't. Back when I still objectively thought: "well, if this and that >happens, I might win this", I actually didn't win a thing. Even when reality >exceeded my wildest fantasies and I really should have. Marko Vittanen >spurred me into forcing myself to "believe" and, while I haven't won that >much to date, I did start winning once in a while and, most importantly, >started bringing home more solid finishes. > >YMMV, of course, but I'm "a believer" now. I race to win. Every time, all >the time.

Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and shoulder their way past me again... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in > most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the > positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of > deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I > need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races > with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and > shoulder their way past me again...

I think this is my cue... So, when is the next online GP due? -- -asbjxrn

On 26 Oct 2001 16:55:17 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>I never saw Jan's original post, but: >Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in >performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster than >you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you >can win. >Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a >mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed. > >Eldred

I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea you will lose, you WILL lose :) I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close, everytime we start a race I lack confidence.. Last week we had a race at Kyalami. I qualified second, with the top 5 qualifying times being very close. The race started, and after the first lap I was third, with the first and second guys allready being a couple of seconds in front of me. I got nervous, started making little errors, and after a couple of laps I had my first spin. 2 guys overtook me, I reckognized them, and I knew that I could beat those two quite easily.. quickly back on the track, the guy then driving in 4th position was 7-8 seconds in front of me. Suddenly I felt very confident, was back in the 'zone' and I was flying, getting 1-2 seconds closer to nr.4 each lap. On the 11th lap I made a huge mistake though, overbraked and crashed my car. End of the race. But still it was weird, driving behind a fast guy gave my bad laptimes and unconfident driving, while driving behind someone slower made fast and confident. When I quit the race I noticed I had set the fastest laptime, faster than the guys on 1th and 2nd position.. Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :) Andre

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPLRank - under construction... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>>I never saw Jan's original post, but: >>Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in >>performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster >than >>you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you >>can win. >>Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a >>mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed. >> >>Eldred > >I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea >you will lose, you WILL lose :) >I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a >couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close, >everytime we start a race I lack confidence..

Yeah, but at least you're in the same time zone in performance. In my league(s), I'm routinely lapped even though I seldom spin out. Guys will crash, and I pass them. They shift-r, pass me again, and (usually)crash again. I've finished 4th in a race where the winner had to shift-r 2 or 3 times. It would be silly for me to even THINK that I could beat these guys in a fair fight. It would be like trying to beat an Indycar in a Nascar at Michigan. It ain't gonna happen.... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>[email hidden] (EldredP) writes: > >> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in >> most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the >> positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of >> deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I >> need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races >> with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and >> shoulder their way past me again... > >I think this is my cue... > >So, when is the next online GP due?

Sure, you're the only 3-time winner... Actually, you're the only MULTIPLE race winner. <g> Well, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe the weekend after Thanksgiving. Most Americans have that Friday off, but the Euros wouldn't... So, the Sunday would probably be better. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Thanksgiving?!? That's already past ;) (Rob, proud Canadian). "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >So, when is the next online GP due? > > Sure, you're the only 3-time winner... Actually, you're the only MULTIPLErace > winner. <g> > Well, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe the weekend after Thanksgiving. Most > Americans have that Friday off, but the Euros wouldn't... So, the Sundaywould > probably be better.

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

Quoted text (22 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > (Asbj��rn Bj��rnstad) writes: > > >[email hidden] (EldredP) writes: > > > >> Well, I know realistically that I *don't* have a chance to win in > >> most of my leagues. I'm 5-6 seconds slower per lap. All the > >> positive thinking in the WORLD won't help me overcome that kind of > >> deficit. So, I really DO need "this or that to happen". Meaning, I > >> need the faster guys to crash or disco. That's why I prefer races > >> with no shift-r. Then, the fast guys who crash can't repair and > >> shoulder their way past me again... > > > >I think this is my cue... > > > >So, when is the next online GP due? > > Sure, you're the only 3-time winner... Actually, you're the only > MULTIPLE race winner. <g> > Well, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe the weekend after Thanksgiving. > Most Americans have that Friday off, but the Euros wouldn't... So, > the Sunday would probably be better.

I was actually thinking more of the races with no shift-r part than the winning part. I could use an excuse to fire up GPL again. I haven't raced or practiced for more than a month I think. -- -asbjxrn

Must have been Daryl that had you psyched rather than me. :) Surprised having Larry on your tail didn't bother you though. I actually got comfortable and confident in front of Daryl until I had a couple of slow laps and had him drafting me down the front straight with 2 laps to go. Must be getting to be a more confident driver as I turned my fastest lap on the last lap with Daryl threatening to sneak away with a win after I'd led most of the laps. But maybe we should switch to Tom Pabst's league, hard to feel pressure when you only have to turn 1:33s at Monza to win. :) Actually what I thought was most interesting in the race report was the lap consistency information. The top three finishers had the most consistent laps. As for thinking you'll win helping, it was funny the first half dozen laps I was thinking that I couldn't pull away from Daryl, but after that started looking at it as Daryl couldn't catch up to me. The confidence made it much easier to concentrate on driving rather than what to do when/if Daryl tried to pass me for the lead. Terry Andre Warringa wrote:

Quoted text (56 lines)

> On 26 Oct 2001 16:55:17 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > > >>I never saw Jan's original post, but: >>Jan, while I agree with this in theory, you have to at least be close in >>performance to the other drivers. If the drivers are 5-6 seconds faster than >>you at a particular track, and they keep it on the track, there's no WAY you >>can win. >>Now if you're only about a second off, maybe you can force someone into a >>mistake. Otherwise, you need more speed. >> >>Eldred >> > > I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the idea > you will lose, you WILL lose :) > I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there are a > couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are very close, > everytime we start a race I lack confidence.. > > Last week we had a race at Kyalami. I qualified second, with the top 5 > qualifying times being very close. The race started, and after the > first lap I was third, with the first and second guys allready being a > couple of seconds in front of me. I got nervous, started making little > errors, and after a couple of laps I had my first spin. > > 2 guys overtook me, I reckognized them, and I knew that I could beat > those two quite easily.. quickly back on the track, the guy then > driving in 4th position was 7-8 seconds in front of me. Suddenly I > felt very confident, was back in the 'zone' and I was flying, getting > 1-2 seconds closer to nr.4 each lap. > > On the 11th lap I made a huge mistake though, overbraked and crashed > my car. End of the race. But still it was weird, driving behind a fast > guy gave my bad laptimes and unconfident driving, while driving behind > someone slower made fast and confident. > > When I quit the race I noticed I had set the fastest laptime, faster > than the guys on 1th and 2nd position.. > > Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :) > > Andre > > > >>Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >>Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >>GPLRank - under construction... >> >>Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >>with experience... >>Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. >> >

On 30 Oct 2001 01:22:46 +0100, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) wrote: >I could use an excuse to fire up GPL again. I haven't raced or >practiced for more than a month I think. >-- > -asbjxrn I'll give you two damn good reasons: The new Eagle: http://www.gplea.org Mt.Tremblant: http://www.theuspits.com :) Andre

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:27:04 GMT, TL <[email hidden]> wrote: >Must have been Daryl that had you psyched rather than me. :) Surprised >having Larry on your tail didn't bother you though. Larry was two cars behind me. The guy behind me (can't remember who it was) couldn't keep up and crashed a couple of laps later. Larry and Sjoerd overtook me when I spinned. > But maybe we should switch to Tom Pabst's >league, hard to feel pressure when you only have to turn 1:33s at Monza >to win. :) LOL :)

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Actually what I thought was most interesting in the race report was the >lap consistency information. The top three finishers had the most >consistent laps. As for thinking you'll win helping, it was funny the >first half dozen laps I was thinking that I couldn't pull away from >Daryl, but after that started looking at it as Daryl couldn't catch up >to me. The confidence made it much easier to concentrate on driving >rather than what to do when/if Daryl tried to pass me for the lead.

Exactly. The weird thing for me was that I couldn't keep up with you the first couple of laps. I felt like I was sliding all over the place, very weird after I set the 2nd qualifying time. Then I spinned, Sjoerd was in front of me, I knew I could get him, and I was back in the zone. When I crashed on the 11th lap (cheap excuse: the night before I put a squashball in my pedals and hardly had practice with it, I overbraked in a corner because of that) I saw I had set the fastest laptime so far. Anyway, I hired a mental coach now, the next race at Monaco your ass is mine :) Andre >Terry

"Andre Warringa" wrote... > <snip> > I know what you mean, but Jan is right.. if you start with the > idea you will lose, you WILL lose :) Exactly.

Quoted text (12 lines)

> I suffer the same problem though.. I'm in a league, and there > are a couple of fast guys in it. Allthough our laptimes are > very close, everytime we start a race I lack confidence.. > <snip> > But still it was weird, driving behind a fast guy gave me bad > laptimes and unconfident driving, while driving behind someone > slower made me fast and confident. > > When I quit the race I noticed I had set the fastest laptime, > faster than the guys on 1th and 2nd position.. > > Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :)

Too right, once one knows how to drive the car, anything further is at least partly mental. Eldred's perception of where the limit and the edge of the track are is underdeveloped. The only setting that can compensate for that sits between his ears though. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"EldredP" wrote...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> <snip> > Yeah, but at least you're in the same time zone in performance. > In my league(s), I'm routinely lapped even though I seldom spin > out. Guys will crash, and I pass them. They shift-r, pass me > again, and (usually)crash again. I've finished 4th in a race > where the winner had to shift-r 2 or 3 times. > It would be silly for me to even THINK that I could beat these > guys in a fair fight. It would be like trying to beat an Indycar > in a Nascar at Michigan. It ain't gonna happen....

<sigh> That's why you have to *believe*, get it? -You must believe you can win any given race, regardless of the situation. End of story. Andre might be in the ballpark with the fast guys, but I sure am not. Check the grids for the reasonably well attented GP's if you don't believe me. However, I do enter these races to win, silly as that may sound in the face of relative laptimes. Two more things: 1) the use of shift-r seems severely underpunished in the leagues you run in, promoting erratic driving. If you can't beat them, join them. You might hang on to it once in a while and get a result. 2) If there ain't no such thing as a fair war, there sure isn't anything remotely like a fair race. You must be ready to ruthlessly capitalize on other peoples mistakes. There's no need to let anyone bye for position just because they happen to be faster than you, so depending on the tactical situation you should block. Once you establish a reputation of being hard to pass, you are hard to pass, whether you go out of your way to defend or not. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>> >> Racing is for a big part a psycholigical game :) > >Too right, once one knows how to drive the car, anything further is at least >partly mental. Eldred's perception of where the limit and the edge of the >track are is underdeveloped. The only setting that can compensate for that >sits between his ears though. >

I know you meant that in a friendly way, but I don't like the way it came out...<g> In real life, I don't have any problem knowing where the limit and the edge of the track(road) are. In the sims, I'm not getting enough information to have that same confidence. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

><sigh> That's why you have to *believe*, get it? -You must believe you can >win any given race, regardless of the situation. End of story. Andre might >be in the ballpark with the fast guys, but I sure am not. Check the grids >for the reasonably well attented GP's if you don't believe me. However, I do >enter these races to win, silly as that may sound in the face of relative >laptimes. >

And check out MY results. I've been on the podium for 4 out of the 6 reasonably attended races. I've fairly proud of my finishing record<g>. As a matter of fact, I just ran in my first MoG race this past saturday. 80 laps at Anderstorp - I finished 6th.<sound of own horn blowing> But, giving up 7 seconds per lap, there's no physical, mental, or emotional way I can win without help. The other guys have to crash out, or disco. In the Anderstorp race, I was basically the last surviving car. Everyone I 'beat' either crashed or disco'd. >Two more things: > >1) the use of shift-r seems severely underpunished in the leagues you run >in, promoting erratic driving. If you can't beat them, join them. You might >hang on to it once in a while and get a result. Like I said, I *prefer* full-length, full-damage races.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >2) If there ain't no such thing as a fair war, there sure isn't anything >remotely like a fair race. You must be ready to ruthlessly capitalize on >other peoples mistakes. There's no need to let anyone bye for position just >because they happen to be faster than you, so depending on the tactical >situation you should block. Once you establish a reputation of being hard to >pass, you are hard to pass, whether you go out of your way to defend or not. >

I've been a victim of WAY too many fast drivers punting me after they crashed and shift-r'd. It's like they think they're ENTITLED to get back to the front - nevermind the fact that it was THEIR f'kup that put them behind me in the FIRST place... In other words, I just don't TRUST most of them not to take me out in the process. A lot of them expect the slower cars to part like the Red Sea. What's up with THAT? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.