rFactor FF problem

I've just bought rFactor (which I'm finding great fun), but I seem to be having a problem with (lack of) force feedback. I have a Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel, the old game port version. FF works fine with this wheel in other games, from GPL to RBR. I've spotted the note in the readme which mentioned that the force effects must be set to Low on MS wheels, so I've made sure that's the case. On Sunday I was having problems with the wheel pulling the wrong way (the more I'd steer to e.g. the left, the more the wheel would pull to the left- a sort of anti-centering effect), but when I loaded it up today, I set the slider on the FF page in rF from 100% to -100%, and now I get no FF at all. There's a centering force on the wheel, so it's fine to drive, but lack of FF makes me sad :-( Does anyone else have FF working with this wheel? If so, what's the secret? Any ideas for things I can try? Thanks, Dave.

Dave Weaver <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4338e83f$0$330$da0feed9 @news.zen.co.uk:

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> I've just bought rFactor (which I'm finding great fun), but I seem to > be having a problem with (lack of) force feedback. > > I have a Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel, the old game port version. FF > works fine with this wheel in other games, from GPL to RBR. > > I've spotted the note in the readme which mentioned that the force > effects must be set to Low on MS wheels, so I've made sure that's the > case. > > On Sunday I was having problems with the wheel pulling the wrong way > (the more I'd steer to e.g. the left, the more the wheel would pull to > the left- a sort of anti-centering effect), but when I loaded it up > today, I set the slider on the FF page in rF from 100% to -100%, and > now I get no FF at all. There's a centering force on the wheel, so > it's fine to drive, but lack of FF makes me sad :-( > > Does anyone else have FF working with this wheel? If so, what's the > secret? Any ideas for things I can try? > > Thanks, > Dave. >

Well the negative numbers are only for Logitech wheels which include the Momos. But the MS needs positive numbers. When you assign the axis for steering, make sure the wheel is centered before doing the left/right stuff. Also make sure you move the wheel fully left and fully right when assigning the axis for steering. Then in the Joy1 screen, place the slider for your wheel,(usually X) to near 50%. I've never used an MS, but with my Logitech, I always move the wheel from side to side and depress both pedals several times so that I use all the available travel in each BEFORE I leave the garage or starting line. THis may not help you because Logitech has a self-centering function built into it's software. But give it a try. In windows itself, play with the centering spring option. I have mine enabled, but set to zero. You could try turning it off or adding some centering spring forces and maybe one of these changes will liven up your wheel. good luck. dh

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > Well the negative numbers are only for Logitech wheels which > include the Momos. But the MS needs positive numbers. When you > assign the axis for steering, make sure the wheel is centered > before doing the left/right stuff. OK - I started from scratch again last night, and got it working - sort of, If I just set the effects to "low", I get FF, but the wheel pulls the wrong way. Moving the other slider to "-100%" gives FF in the right direction. However, if I hit Esc and return to the garage, then go back to the car, I have no FF at all, not even a centering force (which makes the car even harder to drive). The only way to restore the FF is to leave the track and re-enter it. > In windows itself, play with the centering spring option. I have > mine enabled, but set to zero. You could try turning it off or > adding some centering spring forces and maybe one of these > changes will liven up your wheel. Unfortunately that's not an option. I have the old gameport version of the Sidewinder, and that leaves me stuck with XP's built-in driver which offers no control at all over the FF. With all this hassle I've yet to find out - is the FF in rF any good? Am I missing out if I have it turned off? I found that the FF made a huge difference to the feel of the car in GPL - if it's that much difference here, I may have to investigate a new wheel... Cheers, Dave.

rFactor FF is better for me than GPL's, and I loved GPL's. It took a little playing around with steering lock/sensitivity/digital rate to get it right in rFactor, though. But when it's right, you can really feel the front wheels attached to the road. It makes driving so much easier. I don't know how people can still drive sprung wheels. But anyway... another new experience in sims. Anyone notice how the car will hop in the corners? I've never found that in any other sim. And it feels very realistic, both from watching it on-screen, and in the feedback through the wheel. It happens when you really plant the car into the groove. Pretty cool. Pat Dotson

I agree Pat. One thing though, I'd like to be able to see the bumps. Mill's has that sharp left hander and if ya go wide you get thrown around a bit but if you nail the line you miss the bump, very cool but a visual cue would only make it better. I stopped and looked for it but I coulndt find it ;) Mitch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> rFactor FF is better for me than GPL's, and I loved GPL's. It took a > little playing around with steering lock/sensitivity/digital rate to > get it right in rFactor, though. But when it's right, you can really > feel the front wheels attached to the road. It makes driving so much > easier. I don't know how people can still drive sprung wheels. > > But anyway... another new experience in sims. Anyone notice how the > car will hop in the corners? I've never found that in any other sim. > And it feels very realistic, both from watching it on-screen, and in > the feedback through the wheel. It happens when you really plant the > car into the groove. Pretty cool. > > Pat Dotson >

In article <433a3b2f$0$930$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > OK - I started from scratch again last night, and got it > working - sort of, > > If I just set the effects to "low", I get FF, but the wheel pulls the > wrong way. Moving the other slider to "-100%" gives FF in the right > direction. > > However, if I hit Esc and return to the garage, then go back to the > car, I have no FF at all, not even a centering force (which makes the > car even harder to drive). The only way to restore the FF is to leave > the track and re-enter it. >

I've had to retire my old Logitech Red cable driven wheel. Live for Speed and rFactor didn't play nice with it. I hear it is due to the game sending too much data to the wheel for the wheel to handle and things get messed up. I recommissioned a lent Logitech black from one of my cousins. Works fine and all the forces are normal once again, but I dislike the notchiness of the gears. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN

"Michael Sisson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <433a3b2f$0$930$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > OK - I started from scratch again last night, and got it > > working - sort of, > > > > If I just set the effects to "low", I get FF, but the wheel pulls the > > wrong way. Moving the other slider to "-100%" gives FF in the right > > direction. > > > > However, if I hit Esc and return to the garage, then go back to the > > car, I have no FF at all, not even a centering force (which makes the > > car even harder to drive). The only way to restore the FF is to leave > > the track and re-enter it. > > > > I've had to retire my old Logitech Red cable driven wheel. Live for > Speed and rFactor didn't play nice with it. I hear it is due to the game > sending too much data to the wheel for the wheel to handle and things > get messed up. > > I recommissioned a lent Logitech black from one of my cousins. Works > fine and all the forces are normal once again, but I dislike the > notchiness of the gears. > >

I'm still using my old Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB wheel. Never had a problem with it in any game (other than it overheats sometimes) Best damn wheel ever.

Dave wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > "Michael Sisson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> In article <433a3b2f$0$930$[email hidden]>, >> [email hidden] says... >> > <snip>

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>> I've had to retire my old Logitech Red cable driven wheel. Live >> for Speed and rFactor didn't play nice with it. I hear it is >> due to the game sending too much data to the wheel for the >> wheel to handle and things get messed up. >> >> I recommissioned a lent Logitech black from one of my cousins. >> Works fine and all the forces are normal once again, but I >> dislike the notchiness of the gears. >> >> > > > I'm still using my old Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB wheel. > Never had a problem with it in any game (other than it overheats > sometimes) Best damn wheel ever. > > >

Me too. That old Logi wheel has been going since sometime in '98. I got a free spare one a year later, thinking that "surely it will die on me sooner or later": it's still in the back of the closet. Never had any problem with any game I've tried it with, including an original demo of LFS and the latest version of rFactor. -- Darryl

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> > I'm still using my old Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB wheel. > > Never had a problem with it in any game (other than it overheats > > sometimes) Best damn wheel ever. > > > > > > > > Me too. That old Logi wheel has been going since sometime in '98. > I got a free spare one a year later, thinking that "surely it will > die on me sooner or later": it's still in the back of the closet. > Never had any problem with any game I've tried it with, including > an original demo of LFS and the latest version of rFactor. > > -- > Darryl

What settings are you guys using for your wheel and what settings for FF? I have the same wheel and was playing rFactor on-line and just about got myself kicked out of a race because my wheel was being very unresponsive and I kept turning too late and ended up running into other players (honest!!!). I was given a reprieve when I explained the latency and general sloppy response from my Logitech FF; however, I was only able to get minimal help because most of the other Logitech racers were using the Momo. Thanks, PJ

"PJL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> > What settings are you guys using for your wheel and what settings for FF? I > have the same wheel and was playing rFactor on-line and just about got > myself kicked out of a race because my wheel was being very unresponsive and > I kept turning too late and ended up running into other players (honest!!!). > I was given a reprieve when I explained the latency and general sloppy > response from my Logitech FF; however, I was only able to get minimal help > because most of the other Logitech racers were using the Momo. >

I'm just using the default settings in rFactor. No problems.

PJL wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> >> > I'm still using my old Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB >> > wheel. Never had a problem with it in any game (other than it >> > overheats sometimes) Best damn wheel ever. >> > >> > >> > >> >> Me too. That old Logi wheel has been going since sometime in >> '98. I got a free spare one a year later, thinking that "surely >> it will die on me sooner or later": it's still in the back of >> the closet. Never had any problem with any game I've tried it >> with, including an original demo of LFS and the latest version >> of rFactor. >> >> -- >> Darryl > > > What settings are you guys using for your wheel and what > settings for FF? I have the same wheel and was playing rFactor > on-line and just about got myself kicked out of a race because > my wheel was being very unresponsive and I kept turning too late > and ended up running into other players (honest!!!). I was given > a reprieve when I explained the latency and general sloppy > response from my Logitech FF; however, I was only able to get > minimal help because most of the other Logitech racers were > using the Momo. > > Thanks, > > PJ > >

From memory, so be cautious! FF set to FULL Sensitivity set to 100% on the three axis that matter (X = steering, and whatever the two are for brake and throttle) Dead Zone set to smallest value (10% I think) for the three axis In my setups, I find setting the braking pressure to about 80-90% helps with brake "feel". There's one other value I can't recall, something to do with steering as well, I have it set to about 60%. The wheel itself is set to 100% FF effects, centring spring is ON and SPLIT AXIS is checked. HTH, -- Darryl

Thanks, I will try your suggestions. Darryl Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bIR_e.7127$[email hidden]...

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> PJL wrote in news:[email hidden]: > > > > >> > I'm still using my old Logitech Wingman Formula Force USB > >> > wheel. Never had a problem with it in any game (other than it > >> > overheats sometimes) Best damn wheel ever. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> Me too. That old Logi wheel has been going since sometime in > >> '98. I got a free spare one a year later, thinking that "surely > >> it will die on me sooner or later": it's still in the back of > >> the closet. Never had any problem with any game I've tried it > >> with, including an original demo of LFS and the latest version > >> of rFactor. > >> > >> -- > >> Darryl > > > > > > What settings are you guys using for your wheel and what > > settings for FF? I have the same wheel and was playing rFactor > > on-line and just about got myself kicked out of a race because > > my wheel was being very unresponsive and I kept turning too late > > and ended up running into other players (honest!!!). I was given > > a reprieve when I explained the latency and general sloppy > > response from my Logitech FF; however, I was only able to get > > minimal help because most of the other Logitech racers were > > using the Momo. > > > > Thanks, > > > > PJ > > > > > > From memory, so be cautious! > > FF set to FULL > > Sensitivity set to 100% on the three axis that matter (X = > steering, and whatever the two are for brake and throttle) > > Dead Zone set to smallest value (10% I think) for the three axis > > In my setups, I find setting the braking pressure to about 80-90% > helps with brake "feel". > > There's one other value I can't recall, something to do with > steering as well, I have it set to about 60%. > > The wheel itself is set to 100% FF effects, centring spring is ON > and SPLIT AXIS is checked. > > HTH, > -- > Darryl

Can someone please explain that Digital Rate stuff? I still don't get it. -Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> rFactor FF is better for me than GPL's, and I loved GPL's. It took a > little playing around with steering lock/sensitivity/digital rate to > get it right in rFactor, though. But when it's right, you can really > feel the front wheels attached to the road. It makes driving so much > easier. I don't know how people can still drive sprung wheels. > > But anyway... another new experience in sims. Anyone notice how the > car will hop in the corners? I've never found that in any other sim. > And it feels very realistic, both from watching it on-screen, and in > the feedback through the wheel. It happens when you really plant the > car into the groove. Pretty cool. > > Pat Dotson >

Yea, are all the different control variables documented somewhere? I'd also like to know about all the sound variables too.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:jKU_e.3197$B%5.3087@lakeread06: > Can someone please explain that Digital Rate stuff? I still don't get > it. > > -Larry Most of the stuff on the screen for the digital settings are for users with digital gamepads or keyboard drivers. About all you need on that page is the speed sensitivity...<exact name is blank right now> I turn that off. It is designed to help smooth out high speed driving..so OBVIOUSLY I don't need it... No really, it's like a filter that averages out your inputs, and thus crops off some of your input. You can mollify a nervous car in the setups with the steering lock percentage. Smaller steering lock % is a less twichy car.

So if you are using an analog device, do the digital settings even do anything? If not, they should be blacked out when an analog device is chosen. If the digital "delay" is being applied to analog devices that would be a bad thing... Pat Dotson

Cool, so set all the digital stuff to as low as possible, right? -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:jKU_e.3197$B%5.3087@lakeread06: > >> Can someone please explain that Digital Rate stuff? I still don't get >> it. >> >> -Larry > > Most of the stuff on the screen for the digital settings are for users > with digital gamepads or keyboard drivers. About all you need on that > page > is the speed sensitivity...<exact name is blank right now> I turn that > off. It is designed to help smooth out high speed driving..so OBVIOUSLY I > don't need it... No really, it's like a filter that averages out your > inputs, and thus crops off some of your input. > You can mollify a nervous car in the setups with the steering lock > percentage. Smaller steering lock % is a less twichy car.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:Owc%e.10033$B%5.7096@lakeread06:

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> Cool, so set all the digital stuff to as low as possible, right? > > -Larry > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:jKU_e.3197$B%5.3087@lakeread06: >> >>> Can someone please explain that Digital Rate stuff? I still don't >>> get it. >>> >>> -Larry >> >> Most of the stuff on the screen for the digital settings are for >> users >> with digital gamepads or keyboard drivers. About all you need on >> that page >> is the speed sensitivity...<exact name is blank right now> I turn >> that off. It is designed to help smooth out high speed driving..so >> OBVIOUSLY I don't need it... No really, it's like a filter that >> averages out your inputs, and thus crops off some of your input. >> You can mollify a nervous car in the setups with the steering lock >> percentage. Smaller steering lock % is a less twichy car. > > >

I don't even bother with the digital settings. I haven't touched any of those from way back to f1 2001. You could try a little experiment and set them to full on, then drive some then go back and set them to zero and see if anything changes. Except for the Speed Sensitivity, they shouldn't affect a wheel. Pat's idea about greying them out is good, he should post that in the requested features thread at RSC. dh