Online N4 Racing, Wreckers and LPI - Long Post!

There's been a lot of talk about the "wreckers" and poor quality of online racing in N4....lately. In contrast to that, this has been my experience in the last several months, racing online in N4: ******** About the only online racing I have been able to do lately is some pickup racing on N4....even as rare as that is (usually a couple hours a month - max). Usually, I've been testing some new BRD "pre-beta" control.......and I did a lot of online testing on the overhead pedal system (reported by High Gear). This means I've only been running the two road courses. And, since I'm testing equipment, I'm generally pretty slow (I'm being kind to myself...sometimes I'm flat dangerous....lol....like when I first tested the overhead pedals...it was like "scratching my head, rubbing my belly" racing until I got the hang of the heel n' toe work again). Because of that, I've been looking for Papy servers running "arcade" handling on either road course - as my "first choice" pick up race. There was a lot of these races at Sears around the time of the real-world WC race here. My "experience" running those races was that they've been some of the best I've had in online racing......and that includes going all the way back to the early days of TEN racing - and in the WON Net N3 era. Oh sure, some of these road races have had a little too many rookie drivers in them.......but many have had fairly competent drivers who can handle their cars (particularly because of the improved handling from the Arcade setting) and know their way around the track fairly well! I've not seen any "wreckers" in these races....that doesn't mean they are not there on occasion....but I've not run into them. If you go look at my LPI on N4 (Pabst-PRTD), this verifies what I'm saying......99% of my online races are 10-15 lap road course races.....and my LPI is 26.3.....that means approximately two races for every "incident"....which is not bad for road course racing (in my opinion). ******** I'm posting this for primarily one reason: On occasion, I run into some of the so-called "hot shoes" who turn their nose up at running an arcade road race. I think that's a big mistake. Why? Well, the arcade races I've run are a blast. They are short races anyway....and who cares about being a "set up guru" for a 9 lap race at Watkins? I don't. In these races, everyone gets the same "chance"....particularly in the "fixed setup races"......so it boils down to being able to handle your car in and through traffic, and knowing the fast racing line. I generally try to start in the back of the grid.....and see how far I can work my way up through the field in 10 to 15 laps. Its incredibly valuable "practice racing".......its just not "setup development" racing.....but I'm not running any N4 leagues so I don't need to do that. In a small few of these races, there's been several "hot shoe" drivers (guess there was nothing else to run at the time?) and those have been really some of the most competitive races I've run online....ever! I recall one race in particular....it had like 18 total drivers (on a Papy server) at Sears - Arcade handling. There were like 12 drivers who qualified north of 93 mph....the pole was had by George Sandman at around 96 mph (if I recall?). The slowest qual time was a low 90's......(there were actually like 28 or 30 original drivers in the practice session....but the slow guys/rookies must have dropped out...or sat in the pits to watch....when they saw the quality of the field when the qual times posted. Besides George Sandman, SweetAl was in the race and so was Charlie Buscher....these guys are top drivers in any race. It seems to me this was around a 20 lapper....but I don't recall exactly. I do recall it was one of the best online races I've ever been in.......and it boiled down to the winner being the driver who could run consistent laps while picking their way through the back markers after a few laps. Doesn't that sound a lot like what a real-world WC race is like at Sears? I'd also like to point out that the "Arcade" mode is really a misnomer! There's nothing "arcade-like" about it. Actually, the car handles pretty much the way my "full simulation" car handles....or at least, the way I try to create the setup to make the car handle. Its certainly not a "gaming mode" car physics experience! I am totally amazed how many "hot shoes" I've talked to that have never even tried the "arcade" mode. In a road race.....its pretty much the same as a great handling, "full simulation" car. I'm inviting some of you "hot shoes" to put your egos away for a race or two, and jump into one of these races and try it out. Sure, some of them won't be very good....but a high percentage of them are great racing! As far as **pick up racing** on N4 is concerned....I think these arcade-mode road races are the best there is! If you see me online in N4.....that's the kind of races I'll be looking for.....come in and join me......you just might be totally, and pleasantly, surprised! This is what I call "fun racing"....and I do it for relaxation and pure "gaming fun." I never thought I'd hear myself say that......but...there it is! ******** This is a suggestion for Papyrus.....only a suggestion: How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in Arcade "fixed setup" mode? Why? I assume you monitor the participation on the Papyrus race servers? If you find the participation during this trial period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online too? A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially pick up type racing. I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of the general N4 community of drivers. It would be great to know.....at any time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much round the clock! The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to just jump in and drive! If this turns out to be a successful "trial"......based on the numbers of participants.....maybe it would be possible to add a second dedicated server (road races only) with standard, full-simulation setup too? It seems to me there are enough Papyrus servers that this would be a reasonable trial run to test out? I don't know....this is only a suggestion. But, I do know you'd see me online in N4 a lot more often.....and I don't think I'd be the only one who would participate in online N4 racing......a lot more. Regards, Tom Pabst

In article <Rfgd7.53326$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to >loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and >Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in >Arcade "fixed setup" mode? Why? I assume you monitor the participation on >the Papyrus race servers? If you find the participation during this trial >period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by >allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online >too? A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for >obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially >pick up type racing. I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality >of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of >the general N4 community of drivers. It would be great to know.....at any >time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running >road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much >round the clock! The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of >setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to >just jump in and drive!

You think road courses will really be that popular? Well, if I ever figure out my unattended server setup, I may try it. Colin Harris sent me a config info file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evident at the road courses... Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval races on the Papy servers and you'll see. -- ed_ Tom Pabst wrote a long post: > There's been a lot of talk about the "wreckers" and poor quality of online > racing in N4....lately. In contrast to that, this has been my experience in > the last several months, racing online in N4: > <SNIPPED!>

Ed Solheim wrote: > > Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evident at > the road courses... Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval races on > the Papy servers and you'll see. Ed's right. Try a Bristol race & get back with us... -- Fester

Eldred I like all RCs but in N4 tossing these huge tanks around is tuff! Of course if you get these Clunkers' going in RCs for awhile, I found that when I go back to one of my 'F1' sims or GPL it seems like they are a breeze compared to WC cars.. phew they're tuff to get thru the turns..hahaha jmho -Thom_j. "EldredP" wrote: | You think road courses will really be that popular? Well, if I everfigure out | my unattended server setup, I may try it. Colin Harris sent me a configinfo | file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going. | | Eldred "Tom Pabst" writes: | > How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to | >loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and | >Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses")in | >Arcade "fixed setup" mode? Why? I assume you monitor the participationon | >the Papyrus race servers? If you find the participation during thistrial | >period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by | >allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racingonline | >too? A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road coursesonly......for | >obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing,especially | >pick up type racing. I don't think there'd be any argument that thequality | >of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the qualityof | >the general N4 community of drivers. It would be great to know.....atany | >time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running | >road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much | >round the clock! The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of | >setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to | >just jump in and drive! | --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Yea Ed, Those wreckers dont know how to turn right & left..Thank God.. :) "Ed Solheim" wrote: | Like I've stated before Tom, the problems with wreckers is not so evidentat | the road courses... Have a go at some superspeedway or other oval raceson | the Papy servers and you'll see. | | -- | ed_ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Hey Starsky, Isn't it true that the N4 arcade mode is actually the exact same physics model as the sim mode, but with slightly better than real car properties (traction primarily) and a symmetrical setup? I think I read that somewhere. So running in arcade mode really shouldn't be that bothersome to the purists. It's just like taking a sim and editing the vehicles properties to make them go faster, something I've heard of a lot of people doing. Just my opinion. The only way I can get my non-racer lan buddies to play N4 is in arcade mode anyway, so I tend to agree with you. Regards, Hal "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rfgd7.53326$[email hidden]... > There's been a lot of talk about the "wreckers" and poor quality ofonline > racing in N4....lately. In contrast to that, this has been myexperience in > the last several months, racing online in N4: > > ******** > About the only online racing I have been able to do lately is some > pickup racing on N4....even as rare as that is (usually a couple hoursa > month - max). Usually, I've been testing some new BRD "pre-beta" > control.......and I did a lot of online testing on the overhead pedal > system (reported by High Gear). This means I've only been running thetwo > road courses. And, since I'm testing equipment, I'm generally prettyslow > (I'm being kind to myself...sometimes I'm flatdangerous....lol....like when > I first tested the overhead pedals...it was like "scratching my head, > rubbing my belly" racing until I got the hang of the heel n' toe work > again). Because of that, I've been looking for Papy servers running > "arcade" handling on either road course - as my "first choice" pick uprace. > > There was a lot of these races at Sears around the time of the > real-world WC race here. My "experience" running those races was that > they've been some of the best I've had in online racing......and that > includes going all the way back to the early days of TEN racing - andin the > WON Net N3 era. Oh sure, some of these road races have had a littletoo > many rookie drivers in them.......but many have had fairly competentdrivers > who can handle their cars (particularly because of the improvedhandling > from the Arcade setting) and know their way around the track fairlywell! > I've not seen any "wreckers" in these races....that doesn't mean theyare > not there on occasion....but I've not run into them. If you go lookat my > LPI on N4 (Pabst-PRTD), this verifies what I'm saying......99% of myonline > races are 10-15 lap road course races.....and my LPI is 26.3.....thatmeans > approximately two races for every "incident"....which is not bad forroad > course racing (in my opinion). > > ******** > I'm posting this for primarily one reason: > > On occasion, I run into some of the so-called "hot shoes" who turntheir > nose up at running an arcade road race. I think that's a big mistake.Why? > Well, the arcade races I've run are a blast. They are short races > anyway....and who cares about being a "set up guru" for a 9 lap raceat > Watkins? I don't. In these races, everyone gets the same > "chance"....particularly in the "fixed setup races"......so it boilsdown to > being able to handle your car in and through traffic, and knowing thefast > racing line. I generally try to start in the back of the grid.....andsee > how far I can work my way up through the field in 10 to 15 laps. Its > incredibly valuable "practice racing".......its just not "setupdevelopment" > racing.....but I'm not running any N4 leagues so I don't need to dothat. > In a small few of these races, there's been several "hot shoe" drivers > (guess there was nothing else to run at the time?) and those have been > really some of the most competitive races I've run online....ever! > > I recall one race in particular....it had like 18 total drivers(on a > Papy server) at Sears - Arcade handling. There were like 12 driverswho > qualified north of 93 mph....the pole was had by George Sandman ataround 96 > mph (if I recall?). The slowest qual time was a low 90's......(therewere > actually like 28 or 30 original drivers in the practice session....butthe > slow guys/rookies must have dropped out...or sat in the pits to > watch....when they saw the quality of the field when the qual timesposted. > Besides George Sandman, SweetAl was in the race and so was Charlie > Buscher....these guys are top drivers in any race. It seems to methis was > around a 20 lapper....but I don't recall exactly. I do recall it wasone of > the best online races I've ever been in.......and it boiled down tothe > winner being the driver who could run consistent laps while pickingtheir > way through the back markers after a few laps. Doesn't that sound alot > like what a real-world WC race is like at Sears? > > I'd also like to point out that the "Arcade" mode is really amisnomer! > There's nothing "arcade-like" about it. Actually, the car handlespretty > much the way my "full simulation" car handles....or at least, the wayI try > to create the setup to make the car handle. Its certainly not a"gaming > mode" car physics experience! I am totally amazed how many "hotshoes" I've > talked to that have never even tried the "arcade" mode. In a road > race.....its pretty much the same as a great handling, "fullsimulation" > car. > > I'm inviting some of you "hot shoes" to put your egos away for arace or > two, and jump into one of these races and try it out. Sure, some ofthem > won't be very good....but a high percentage of them are great racing!As > far as **pick up racing** on N4 is concerned....I think thesearcade-mode > road races are the best there is! If you see me online inN4.....that's the > kind of races I'll be looking for.....come in and join me......youjust

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> might be totally, and pleasantly, surprised! This is what I call "fun > racing"....and I do it for relaxation and pure "gaming fun." > > I never thought I'd hear myself say that......but...there it is! > > ******** > This is a suggestion for Papyrus.....only a suggestion: > > How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers

to > loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Poconoand > Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "roadcourses") in > Arcade "fixed setup" mode? Why? I assume you monitor theparticipation on > the Papyrus race servers? If you find the participation during thistrial > period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by > allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racingonline > too? A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road coursesonly......for > obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing,especially > pick up type racing. I don't think there'd be any argument that thequality > of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds thequality of > the general N4 community of drivers. It would be great to know.....atany > time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality raceserver....running > road course races only, with some good drivers running......prettymuch > round the clock! The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issueof > setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easierto > just jump in and drive! > > If this turns out to be a successful "trial"......based on thenumbers > of participants.....maybe it would be possible to add a seconddedicated > server (road races only) with standard, full-simulation setup too? Itseems > to me there are enough Papyrus servers that this would be a reasonabletrial > run to test out? > > I don't know....this is only a suggestion. But, I do know you'dsee me > online in N4 a lot more often.....and I don't think I'd be the onlyone who

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> would participate in online N4 racing......a lot more. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > > > >

"Hey Starsky" hahaha too much Haqsau!! This is a winner!! rolflmao :) "Haqsau" wrote: | Hey Starsky,<snipped all the important stuff :)..> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

When whatever tracks can be converted to N4 are, RC's in N4 will become much much more popular. From the video I've seen of N4 at Monaco the graphics etc. look great. How much are those pedals you've been testing Tom? Charlie Buscher Proud member of: http://www.sscaracing.com <-- SSCA [email hidden] http://www.enteract.com/~dirkc/hgns/ <-- HGNS and HGNS_GPL "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ovmd7.94911$[email hidden]...

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> "Hey Starsky" hahaha too much Haqsau!! This is a winner!! rolflmao :) > > "Haqsau" wrote: > | Hey Starsky, > <snipped all the important stuff :)..> > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > > >

In article <l2md7.94831$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." <[email hidden]> writes: >Eldred I like all RCs but in N4 tossing these huge tanks around is tuff! >Of course if you get these Clunkers' going in RCs for awhile, I found >that when I go back to one of my 'F1' sims or GPL it seems like they >are a breeze compared to WC cars.. phew they're tuff to get thru the >turns..hahaha jmho -Thom_j. > When I got Nascar Heat, I tried Watkins Glen and Sears Point. The car would NOT turn. It didn't really matter how fast I was going - I could be going only 10 mph. Understeer right off the track(or into the wall). I didn't have such problems with the oval tracks, so I don't think it was controller issues. Haven't been back since...and I haven't tried road courses in N4 yet.<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <Rfgd7.53326$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > How about giving a trial period to dedicating one of your servers to > >loop races only between Sears and Watkins (or maybe throw in Pocono and > >Phoenix too...since they are pretty much left-turn only "road courses") in > >Arcade "fixed setup" mode? Why? I assume you monitor the participation on > >the Papyrus race servers? If you find the participation during this trial > >period to exceed the norms.....maybe it would benefit online racing by > >allowing a lot more of the GPL community to participate in N4 racing online > >too? A lot of those guys like running N4 on the road courses only......for > >obvious reasons, they are not thrilled with circle track racing, especially > >pick up type racing. I don't think there'd be any argument that the quality > >of drivers in the GPL community...on average....far exceeds the quality of > >the general N4 community of drivers. It would be great to know.....at any > >time you get online in N4....there'd be a quality race server....running > >road course races only, with some good drivers running......pretty much > >round the clock! The Arcade mode/fixed setup....just takes the issue of > >setup and car handling......out of the competition and makes it easier to > >just jump in and drive! > > You think road courses will really be that popular? Well, if I ever figure out > my unattended server setup, I may try it. Colin Harris sent me a config info > file that I need to find - hopefully that will get me going.

Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server. http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server. I wish we had more road courses in N4. I'm getting damn tired of Seras Point and Watkins Glen. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server. > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > >It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server. > I'd forgotten all about that...thanks! When you set up a dedicated server, do you need the CD? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Eldred, use DeMONS/2 to setup your dedicated server. > > > > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > > > >It takes the pain out of setting up a dedicated N4 server. > > > > I'd forgotten all about that...thanks! When you set up a dedicated server, do > you need the CD? > > Eldred >

To actually run the server, no. But DeMONS requires that you install N4 from the CD. If DeMONS doesn't find the appropriate registry entries, it will tell you that you didn't properly install N4. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> I'd forgotten all about that...thanks! When you set up a dedicated server, >do >> you need the CD? >> >> Eldred >> > >To actually run the server, no. But DeMONS requires that you install N4 >from the CD. If DeMONS doesn't find the appropriate registry entries, >it will tell you that you didn't properly install N4.

Ok - I installed it from the CD last week, so I should be all set. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ed.... I think that was the point I was trying to make? At least part of it..... Tom

Hey Charlie.....good to see you....its been a while since we've raced, huh? I think you are right about N4 becoming a little more "popular" if some additional road courses are some how "hacked into" the deal. But frankly, with Papy's EULA, their licensing "issues" with NASCAR and company......and the fact that they encrypted the mip files.....I doubt they are going to be as lenient with this sort of thing as they were with GPL. At least, that's what I can glean from my discussions with the HAVAS attorney's over this type of stuff in N4. I know more road courses in N4 would tend to bring some of the GPL community into N4 online racing. That's why I asked about dedicating a Papyrus server to running only road courses. I threw in Pocono and Phoenix because they are very close to being like racing on road courses too. I think its not so much that the oval tracks are not fun.....its just that they are not "as fun" for short, pick-up type racing. On the oval tracks......the real racing is more about tire management, fuel management, pitting strategy and the "chess game" that's associated with those things....and less about "driving skills." Those "elements" are not in play......for a short pick-up race on an oval track. I think its safe to say, its just the opposite on road courses....at least for short length races. Wouldn't you agree? Regarding the overhead pedals. Charlie...the beta setup we built set us back about $450....just for materials. It was about $4,500 in labor! The Ball Racing "production version" is targeted for a retail price around $200 to $250. There's no guarantee that it will hit that target....but I think its got a decent chance of doing so. If you are interested in building a set of overhead pedals for yourself.....and you've got a decent workshop and the desire/skills to fool around with this....let me know. Send me an email and I'll give you a hand with getting you started.....send you some rough drawings and so forth. Tom

Boy, Hutch....I'm not so sure about your opening sentence. I wouldn't say the traction is "better than real car physics"....because the Arcade mode car (out of the box) handles about like my "full simulation" race car. Its just that it took a few hundred thousand laps to get my full-sim car to handle that way....and a lot of help from George Sandman, I might add. As far as the symmetry of the Arcade set up......that's not really relevant. In general, you'd set up a road course car with symmetrical settings....then "tweak it" from there. You usually don't end up with a symmetrical set up. Certainly NOT at Sears Point you don't! The Arcade mode in N4 isn't a piece of cake to drive.....not on the road courses at least. If I recall, the N4 beta team was even trying to get Papyrus to not call it "Arcade" because it isn't indicative of what it really is. But, I can understand Papyrus being unwilling to use a different term....since that's a pretty universally understood term in the gaming world.....which was their primary market. Tom PS: Word is......that Empire has dropped the Starkey and Hutch idea!

I that case... pleasde forgive me for not spotting it :-) (I was dead tired at the time) -- ed_ Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> skrev i news:qjKd7.59139$[email hidden]... > Ed.... > > I think that was the point I was trying to make? At least part of it..... > > Tom > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8RKd7.59173$[email hidden]... > Boy, Hutch....I'm not so sure about your opening sentence. > > I wouldn't say the traction is "better than real car physics" I checked, and found this in the N4 manual, pg. 23: "Arcade [mode] gives you a car that's easier to drive, with more traction and maneuverability than real race cars have." I think this is literally just better tires and a default setup that is made to be easy to drive. Because if you start playing with the car, all the correct physics still seem to be there. >....because the > Arcade mode car (out of the box) handles about like my "fullsimulation" > race car. Its just that it took a few hundred thousand laps to get my > full-sim car to handle that way....and a lot of help from GeorgeSandman, I > might add. In some ways I think that reinforces my point. The physics are still correct, they just give you a better than real car. Anyway at the heart of it I am agreeing with you (I think) in that arcade mode with fixed setups is a really good mode for on-line play. The only thing I'm trying to say is that I don't think hard-core simmers should turn their nose up at it, the correct physics are still there. > As far as the symmetry of the Arcade set up......that's not > really relevant. In general, you'd set up a road course car with > symmetrical settings....then "tweak it" from there. You usually don'tend > up with a symmetrical set up. Certainly NOT at Sears Point you don't! For some reason I was thinking that the default arcade setup is symmetrical at all the tracks, but I just checked and they aren't. Nevertheless if you drive the arcade and sim modes back to back, the arcade mode does not pull as hard to the left as the sim mode does. > PS: Word is......that Empire has dropped the Starkey and Hutch idea! Ok, but you're still Starsky to me. Actually just "Starsk" because IIRC Hutch was just way too cool to add the final "y". ;o)

Hutch... I wonder if the "manual writers" actually checked with the "code writers" to make sure that statement in the manual was truly correct? In the long run though, we are pretty much in agreement that the Arcade mode is certainly not something to be avoided....because its too easy.....like it was something only "girls would do." You know? I don't drive the ovals in N4 much anymore....except the flat tracks.....so I can't really comment about the stagger pull between the two modes. I trust your assessment of it though. Regarding "Starsky verses Starsk".....if you are cool enough to let me call you "Hacksaw" without getting too pissed off....(which you were).....then you are cool enough to call me Starsk......or any thing you come up with (except "asshole".....only because my ex-wife already has the trademark on that name for me....lol...). Take care, Tom

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X04e7.192$[email hidden]... > Regarding "Starsky verses Starsk".....if you are cool enough to let mecall > you "Hacksaw" without getting too pissed off....(which youwere).....then > you are cool enough to call me Starsk......or any thing you come upwith > (except "asshole".....only because my ex-wife already has thetrademark on > that name for me....lol...). Actually I was impressed that you called me Hacksaw, because most people look at my handle and don't have a clue how to pronounce it. At a recent lan party one guy kept calling me "Husqvarna." My nickname really is Hacksaw, I just messed up the spelling because it is not an uncommon nickname and I knew there were other people using it on-line already.

yer not Hacksaw Reynolds are you? The ex LA Ram Linebacker who 'hacksawed' a jeep in two???? dave henrie (ps...I thought you hacked up a lougie and a speech program converted it to your handle...) "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kwje7.36811$[email hidden]...

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> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:X04e7.192$[email hidden]... > > > Regarding "Starsky verses Starsk".....if you are cool enough to let me > call > > you "Hacksaw" without getting too pissed off....(which you > were).....then > > you are cool enough to call me Starsk......or any thing you come up > with > > (except "asshole".....only because my ex-wife already has the > trademark on > > that name for me....lol...). > > Actually I was impressed that you called me Hacksaw, because most people > look at my handle and don't have a clue how to pronounce it. At a > recent lan party one guy kept calling me "Husqvarna." My nickname > really is Hacksaw, I just messed up the spelling because it is not an > uncommon nickname and I knew there were other people using it on-line > already. >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c%ne7.18912$[email hidden]... > yer not Hacksaw Reynolds are you? The ex LA Ram Linebacker who > 'hacksawed' a jeep in two???? > dave henrie Nope, sorry, never even heard of him. > (ps...I thought you hacked up a lougie and a speech program convertedit to > your handle...) <sigh> I may have to change it one of these days. Some people react to it like I'm trying to be 'leet or something, which is really not the case. Although I will admit that I stuck the 'Q' in there in order to get the Quake symbol in my name back in the Quake Classic days. Anyway I've been using it since 1997, so I really don't feel like changing it. But if people prefer to call me Hacksaw, I'll probably still answer. ;o)