RT: Rally Thropy = Spirit of Speed'37 all over??

Hiya... As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and shiver!! A few quotes: "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. - HAH!!!! This is just a piece of real junk!!! " "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real life physics... " Please, *please* say it aint so!! ed_

Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]... > Hiya...[SNIP] > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > ed_ I ain't so ! Mikkel

Interesting, all the previewers I've heard of so far have only praised the physics. Where did you hear this from? We're VERY curious :-) -Ilari "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]...

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> Hiya... > > As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the > Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > shiver!! > > A few quotes: > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > - HAH!!!! > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real

life

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> physics... " > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > ed_ > > >

Just a couple points. There are those of us who happen to enjoy Spirit of Speed. I understand this is a political/religious issue and I am going to say no more about it...at least not in this post. <g> Then there is the matter of these "GPL racers" you quote. Has there ever been any piece of code, with the possible exception of N4, that has earned anything but contempt from the more rabid fans of GPL? Or, more mildly, a dismissive "It's no GPL." And exactly where did these "GPL racers" see this alpha version of Rally Trophy? Who are these guys? There is nothing more potentially destructive than the power of misplaced expectation. Unfulfilled, expectation is the mother of disappointment. Rather than jumping on the rumor wagon, let's just see what Rally Trophy turns out to be. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:43:18 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hiya... > >As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the >Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... > >I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL >racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and >shiver!! > >A few quotes: > >"Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in >action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. >- HAH!!!! >This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > >"....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. >I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real life >physics... " > > >Please, *please* say it aint so!! > >ed_ > > >

Remove "hi" from address or it will bounce....

[email hidden] writes:

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> Just a couple points. > > There are those of us who happen to enjoy Spirit > of Speed. I understand this is a > political/religious issue and I am going to say no > more about it...at least not in this post. <g> > > Then there is the matter of these "GPL racers" you > quote. Has there ever been any piece of code, > with the possible exception of N4, that has earned > anything but contempt from the more rabid fans of > GPL? Or, more mildly, a dismissive "It's no GPL." > And exactly where did these "GPL racers" see this > alpha version of Rally Trophy? Who are these > guys?

Still waiting for an answer to the last question. But I have no reason to doubt the person in question on his credibilty and integrity. I've raced him in GPL and N4 the last two years. However, I find it a bit odd that all the sites who has previewed RT says the opposite, sites I also rate very high on their opinions. > There is nothing more potentially destructive than > the power of misplaced expectation. Unfulfilled, > expectation is the mother of disappointment. > Rather than jumping on the rumor wagon, let's just > see what Rally Trophy turns out to be. I'm not jumping anything, but I definately want to try a demo first. :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? And where did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version? To me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. -Ilari "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Still waiting for an answer to the last question. But I have no reason > to doubt the person in question on his credibilty and integrity. I've > raced him in GPL and N4 the last two years. However, I find it a bit > odd that all the sites who has previewed RT says the opposite, sites I > also rate very high on their opinions. > > > There is nothing more potentially destructive than > > the power of misplaced expectation. Unfulfilled, > > expectation is the mother of disappointment. > > Rather than jumping on the rumor wagon, let's just > > see what Rally Trophy turns out to be. > > I'm not jumping anything, but I definately want to try a demo first. :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

Ilari Lehtinen wrote: > > Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? Let's face it, every game ever released and all those yet to be, get their fair share of 'it rocks' and 'it sucks' posts. I'd stake money on even the great GPL having had some 'it sucks' posts when the demo first came out. Pinch of salt until you actually get to play it yourself. Kev

I'm trying my best to get some more information / verification on this... The best thing ofcourse would be to get a test drive... i could even write a few words about it :-))) Anyway.. I really want RT to be good... it looks good and model an era I like. So here's to hoping the "rumours" are unjustified! ed_

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> Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? And where > did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version? To > me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. > > -Ilari >

We (Smiracing.dk) are nearly done with a little "hands on" article made from the alpha preview version of Rally Trophy. To make a long story short, we like it, and we are all GPL nuts. (most of you GPL guys know Peter Arnholm) There are problems with some of the physics, but much of that is even stated in the read-me as being known to the developers. I hardly thinks it's fair bashing them for letting us see and test a preview version with some parts of the game still to be done. I think its safe to say that Rally Trophy even in the alpha version is the best rally game ever... Now we can just wait and see how much better it gets in the final version. I for one look very much forward to seeing a more finished version with e.g. correct ground friction values and multiplayer options. The ultra short judgement is... we have a potential hit on the way, it's great fun. But a massively important thing like multiplayer is not implemented in the alpha, so only time will tell if Rally Trophy will go all the way to the top of my personal wish list. Mikkel Gram-Hansen http://www.simracing.dk Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]...

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> Hiya... > > As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the > Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > shiver!! > > A few quotes: > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > - HAH!!!! > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real

life

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> physics... " > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > ed_ > > >

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]...

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> Hiya... > > As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the > Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > shiver!!

GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most prejudiced when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not. So I wouldn't pay much attention to what they say. They may be right, but I think their standards (and airs, for that matter) may be a bit too high. Look to other non-GPL opinions also before you decide whether Rally Trophy is going to be a good simulation or not. Alanb

Will you guys quit throwing all "GPL racers" in one pile already? -That really annoys me. Thanks. Jan. =--- "Alan Bernardo" wrote...

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> <snip> > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are > the most prejudiced when evaluating whether a racing > title is a simulation or not. So I wouldn't pay much > attention to what they say. They may be right, but I > think their standards (and airs, for that matter) may > be a bit too high. > > Look to other non-GPL opinions also before you decide > whether Rally Trophy is going to be a good simulation > or not. > > Alanb

Well, the copy I played (along with Pekka Heino and David Harrison of bhmotorsports.com), we were all damn impressed with what they had at E3 (including the booth babes). The cars felt great and you really had to be on your toes to control the car.... Just my .02. -Jacob "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]...

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> Hiya... > > As much as I hope this is untrue and wrong... I've heard things about the > Rally Thropy "preview" version that got me worrying... > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > shiver!! > > A few quotes: > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > - HAH!!!! > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real

life

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> physics... " > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > ed_ > > >

It annoys me too, I race GPL but also think there are other good sims available, MBTR, N4 and F1RC spring immediately to mind. To say that all GPL racers are prejudiced, is in itself a prejudiced and short sighted statement. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Will you guys quit throwing all "GPL racers" in one pile already? -That > really annoys me. > > Thanks. > > Jan. > =--- > "Alan Bernardo" wrote... > > <snip> > > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are > > the most prejudiced when evaluating whether a racing > > title is a simulation or not. So I wouldn't pay much > > attention to what they say. They may be right, but I > > think their standards (and airs, for that matter) may > > be a bit too high. > > > > Look to other non-GPL opinions also before you decide > > whether Rally Trophy is going to be a good simulation > > or not. > > > > Alanb > >

With so many good comments about 'RT' being posted here - I'm thrown even further into the dark.... I'll keep my mought shut until I can judge for myself.... I got this good feeling now.. I relly think the person who said it was "bad" got it all wrong... So Bug Bear - please accept my apologizes for "jumping to the gun".. Sorry! ed_ Ed Solheim > I'm trying my best to get some more information / verification on this... > > The best thing ofcourse would be to get a test drive... i could even writea

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> few words about it :-))) > > Anyway.. I really want RT to be good... it looks good and model an era I > like. > > So here's to hoping the "rumours" are unjustified! > > ed_

Who cares whether you do or do not have anything against GPL racers-- or not...phew.. Get a grip will'ya? :) | "Alan Bernardo" wrote... | GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Why doesn't this surprise me at all? GPL'ers bashing another sim. A sim in which they've only seen the ALPHA version. Typical bullshit comments. Bunch of know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. Seriously, if there is any group of sim racers who's opinions of other sims mean absolutely nothing, it's those from GPL die hards. I'll definitely be buying a copy of Rally Trophy now. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]...

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> > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from GPL > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > shiver!! > > A few quotes: > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > - HAH!!!! > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before release. > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real

life

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> physics... " > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > ed_ > > >

IIari, Completely ignore those comments and this discussion. It's just more of the same old garbage from the same old tiny but big-mothed crowd. Ignpore it. Ignore it. Ignore it. :-) And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. David G Fisher "Ilari Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9jp04s$32s$[email hidden]...

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> Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? And where > did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version? To > me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. > > -Ilari > > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Still waiting for an answer to the last question. But I have no reason > > to doubt the person in question on his credibilty and integrity. I've > > raced him in GPL and N4 the last two years. However, I find it a bit > > odd that all the sites who has previewed RT says the opposite, sites I > > also rate very high on their opinions. > > > > > There is nothing more potentially destructive than > > > the power of misplaced expectation. Unfulfilled, > > > expectation is the mother of disappointment. > > > Rather than jumping on the rumor wagon, let's just > > > see what Rally Trophy turns out to be. > > > > I'm not jumping anything, but I definately want to try a demo first. :) > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > >

I'm a "GPL'er" and I'd *love* a chance to beta test RT. But maybe I don't count as a true "GPL'er" to you David because I: -liked RC2000 -like CMR2 -liked NFS:PU -liked N3 (don't really like N4 much, Nascar's appeal has worn off for me) -liked SCGT -hell, I even liked the original TOCA. It was fun for its time. -etc. I like any racing game where I can toss the car around and it feels at least kind of "right". The only racing games I haven't liked have been modern F1 (and no, I haven't tried F1RC, I had given up by then), because they don't have that "toss factor". Other than a few rabid GPL-only bigots, most GPLer's just like fun driving games that feel "right". If RT fits this category, we'll like it. The bigots are a minority, as are you DGF. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mp_77.30714$[email hidden]... > IIari, > > Completely ignore those comments and this discussion. It's just more ofthe > same old garbage from the same old tiny but big-mothed crowd. > > Ignpore it. Ignore it. Ignore it. :-) > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake.

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. Lmao good one. Many of the GPL beta testers are the best you can find for a development group that is creating racing simulations. You're probably just jealous. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Why doesn't this surprise me at all? GPL'ers bashing another sim. A sim in > which they've only seen the ALPHA version. Typical bullshit comments.Bunch > of know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. Seriously, if there is any > group of sim racers who's opinions of other sims mean absolutely nothing, > it's those from GPL die hards. �Why do you completely generalise one single person's opinion to a whole group of people who enjoy a racing simulation? That's pretty short minded. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You need a course in reading comprehension. The testers for GPL were a fine group. I said don't hire any GPL die-hards/cult members for beta testing jobs. I wasn't referring to any of the original GPL beta testers from three years ago. I've beta tested with one of the GPL testers on two sims, and I'm about to be testing FOR him for the second time. I also was one of the original group to be asked to beta test VROC (by John and Alison). No jealousy here. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GZ_77.33386$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunitiesof > > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > > Lmao good one. Many of the GPL beta testers are the best you can find fora > development group that is creating racing simulations. You're probablyjust

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> jealous. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

*sigh!* DGF wrote: > yadda-yadda-yadda -- ed_

Yea Ed, your brilliant post full of nonsense which started this thread has really received a lot of support. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Xa%77.652$[email hidden]...

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> *sigh!* > > DGF wrote: > > yadda-yadda-yadda > > > -- > ed_ > >

By all means - give the job to DGF... that way you'll never have to wipe clean your "behind" again! Tell me Dave: why are you still here??? ed_ DGF wrote: > IIari, > > Completely ignore those comments and this discussion. It's just more ofthe

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> same old garbage from the same old tiny but big-mothed crowd. > > Ignpore it. Ignore it. Ignore it. :-) > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote: > > I've beta tested with one of the GPL testers on two sims, and I'm about to > be testing FOR him for the second time. Didn't know 'TR' had any sims planned.... but I'm sure they'll be good... afterall it will be tested by a person who was *asked* to betatest *VROC*! -- ed_

You still dont get it do you?? Read the subject-line one more time please! ed_ DGF raps: > Yea Ed, your brilliant post full of nonsense which started this thread has > really received a lot of support. > > David G Fisher

Why are you here Ed? On earth I mean. BTW, Papyrus is having a weekend get together this weekend in which the die hard GPL fans will all get together in a closet and talk about how great GPL is, and how all other sims suck or "ain't no GPL", and how good they are at it after three years of practice. I'll be more than happy to pay for your plane ticket. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vh%77.655$[email hidden]...

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> By all means - give the job to DGF... that way you'll never have to wipe > clean your "behind" again! > > Tell me Dave: why are you still here??? > > ed_ > > DGF wrote: > > IIari, > > > > Completely ignore those comments and this discussion. It's just more of > the > > same old garbage from the same old tiny but big-mothed crowd. > > > > Ignpore it. Ignore it. Ignore it. :-) > > > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities

of > > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > > > David G Fisher > > >

Can we say "wanna be?" :) "ymenard" wrote: | Lmao good one. Many of the GPL beta testers are the best you can find fora | development group that is creating racing simulations. You're probablyjust | jealous. | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Mr. Ed. Just pointing out (in order to slap down ymenard) how at least two of the beta testers of GPL respect my opinions a lot more than you do. They probably have something called "perspective". David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rm%77.656$[email hidden]... > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I've beta tested with one of the GPL testers on two sims, and I'm aboutto > > be testing FOR him for the second time. > > Didn't know 'TR' had any sims planned.... but I'm sure they'll begood... > afterall it will be tested by a person who was *asked* to betatest *VROC*! > > -- > ed_ > >

It says, "Rally Thropy = Spirit of Speed'37 all over??". Oh yea, now I see it's brilliance. Completely unnecessary yet very typical GPL flavored crap. BTW, it's Rally Trophy, not Rally Thropy. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3o%77.657$[email hidden]...

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> You still dont get it do you?? > Read the subject-line one more time please! > > ed_ > > DGF raps: > > > Yea Ed, your brilliant post full of nonsense which started this thread

has > > really received a lot of support. > > > > David G Fisher > > >

Know what Dave..... I un-installed GPL 3 months ago! You were saying... ?? -- ed_

Hmmm, playing N4 now? So then what the hell do you care what some die-hard GPL'ers had to say about an alpha version of Rally Trophy? David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fy%77.664$[email hidden]...

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> Know what Dave..... > I un-installed GPL 3 months ago! > > You were saying... ?? > > > -- > ed_ > > >

I knew it!! You still dont get it! Prehaps you should try once again.... this time look a bit further than the words... ?? DGF wrote: > BTW, it's Rally Trophy, not Rally Thropy. That's a typo stupid.... Ignpore it. Ignpore it. Ignpore it. !! -- ed_

And you were saying .... ??? Btw, where on earth did you get this *die-hard* GPL'ers idea from..?? I just forwarded what and an old friend that I raced GPL with said about what he had seen... -- ed_ > Hmmm, playing N4 now? > > So then what the hell do you care what some die-hard GPL'ers had to say > about an alpha version of Rally Trophy? > > David G Fisher > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fy%77.664$[email hidden]... > > Know what Dave..... > > I un-installed GPL 3 months ago! > > > > You were saying... ?? > > > > > > -- > > ed_ > > > > > > >

I know what your point is, and it's still crap.You're post was really meant to remind us all how SOS was first deemed to be a mess, but later may people changed their minds about it and now see it as a pretty good title. The problem is, you made the old, boring and ridiculous assumption that anyone should care about comments from GPL zealots similiar to the one's in your original post David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wF%77.665$[email hidden]... > I knew it!! You still dont get it! > > Prehaps you should try once again.... this time look a bit further thanthe

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> words... ?? > > DGF wrote: > > > BTW, it's Rally Trophy, not Rally Thropy. > > That's a typo stupid.... Ignpore it. Ignpore it. Ignpore it. !! > > > -- > ed_ > >

OMG a real knock'em out, drag'em out RAS fight!! hahaha "Lets Get Ready To Rummmmmmmmmble!" :o)~ "Ed Solheim" wrote: | I knew it!! You still dont get it! | | Prehaps you should try once again.... this time look a bit further thanthe

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| words... ?? | | DGF wrote: | | > BTW, it's Rally Trophy, not Rally Thropy. | | That's a typo stupid.... Ignpore it. Ignpore it. Ignpore it. !! | | | -- | ed_ | |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > You need a course in reading comprehension. The testers for GPL were afine > group. I said don't hire any GPL die-hards/cult members for beta testing > jobs. I wasn't referring to any of the original GPL beta testers fromthree > years ago. I quote you : "And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunitie of Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake." Somehow, it can be misleading. Sorry for that. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Let's see how long it takes Sir Fisher to figure out what makes this statement a hypocritical load of bullsh!t... Todd Walker GPLRank: +72.27 (Held back by the @#$% Ring) twalker at jam dot rr dot com http://twalker.d2g.com/gpl On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:33 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Why doesn't this surprise me at all? GPL'ers bashing another sim. A sim in >which they've only seen the ALPHA version. Typical bullshit comments. Bunch >of know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. Seriously, if there is any >group of sim racers who's opinions of other sims mean absolutely nothing, >it's those from GPL die hards.

"Ilari Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> writes: > Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? And where > did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version? To > me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. Sorry, haven't been able to get any backing yet. As Ed said, maybe it was just a misjudgement or whatever, maybe the guy was ironic, I don't know. As I said in my post, I have big respect for the guy and his opinions, but other people I also respect has said the countrary, so I guess we're back to basic. RT sure sounds like a promising sim, and I have already praised the idea of including a Volvo Amazon. Roll on demo. Finally: Who gave you the right to do stupid insulting generalizations like that DGF ? I just don't get it. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote on 26 Jul 2001: > I know what your point is, and it's still crap.You're post <snip> ^^^^^^ This from a man who complains about "Thropy"... Ahem! (sorry, couldn't resist it.) -- David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) The GPL Scrapyard: *will be down for a while - hackers at 9ug :-( * "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

I have the same right to say it as anyone else. For example: Then there is the matter of these "GPL racers" you quote. Has there ever been any piece of code, with the possible exception of N4, that has earned anything but contempt from the more rabid fans of GPL? Or, more mildly, a dismissive "It's no GPL." GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most prejudiced when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not. So I wouldn't pay much attention to what they say. BTW, who is this anonymous person who you and Ed respect so much. Is there a reason why his name hasn't yet been connected to his comments? David Fisher "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Ilari Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? Andwhere > > did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version?To

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> > me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. > > Sorry, haven't been able to get any backing yet. As Ed said, maybe it > was just a misjudgement or whatever, maybe the guy was ironic, I don't > know. > > As I said in my post, I have big respect for the guy and his opinions, > but other people I also respect has said the countrary, so I guess > we're back to basic. RT sure sounds like a promising sim, and I have > already praised the idea of including a Volvo Amazon. Roll on demo. > > Finally: Who gave you the right to do stupid insulting generalizations > like that DGF ? I just don't get it. > > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I also was one of the original group > to be asked to beta test VROC (by John and Alison). Why the hell didn't you find the FSAA bug!! It's really annoying ;) Seriously though anybody know why the source is under lock and key, is it for sale?

Hi David, just be careful with the words you use. You're a GPL racer as well, right? Those who got GPL and realized it is something special, were also able to do the same for many a newer simulation that has come out since then. The problem is with the other, 'me too' GPL racers, who read the posts of the people mentioned before, and made a religion out of them. I don't want to go into sociology or whatever here, but I think you share similar views. Therefore, it's perfectly OK to give a GPL racer a testing opportunity, as long as that tester is also a GP3, RC2000 or whatever racer and can enjoy those racing games for what they are meant to deliver, not how they compare to GPL. -Gregor David G Fisher wrote: > > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most prejudiced > when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not. So I > wouldn't pay much attention to what they say. >

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss� news:mp_77.30714$[email hidden]... > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > David G Fisher If only GPL'ers had beta tested RC2000...

Yea, that would of been great. They would of gave us such pearls of wisdom like, "Why can't I powerslide these (FWD) cars through the turns like the real life drivers do?" and, "These roads are way too narrow." Or maybe we would of heard, "The cars should have a lot more pitch and roll." Luckily there were a number of real life rally drivers who I beta tested RC2000 with who actually knew what they were talking about. David G Fisher "Jussi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9jr9s0$lh7$[email hidden]... > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss� > news:mp_77.30714$[email hidden]... > > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunitiesof

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> > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > > > David G Fisher > > If only GPL'ers had beta tested RC2000... > >

Almost forgot. According to this article http://www.gamesdomain.co.uk/gdreview/depart/jul01/rallyfeature_rcx.html , RC2000 sold 1.5 million copies world wide (ymenard will surely give us different numbers). Apparently, quite a few people thought RC2000 was an excellent sim. David G Fisher "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:u6a87.33082$[email hidden]...

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> Yea, that would of been great. They would of gave us such pearls of wisdom > like, "Why can't I powerslide these (FWD) cars through the turns like the > real life drivers do?" and, "These roads are way too narrow." Or maybe we > would of heard, "The cars should have a lot more pitch and roll." > > Luckily there were a number of real life rally drivers who I beta tested > RC2000 with who actually knew what they were talking about. > > David G Fisher > > "Jussi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9jr9s0$lh7$[email hidden]... > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss� > > news:mp_77.30714$[email hidden]... > > > > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing

opportunities

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> of > > > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > If only GPL'ers had beta tested RC2000... > > > > >

I was for awhile, a long time ago. Then I moved on. The last thing Bugbear needs to do is to have their time wasted by GPL die-hards making the same comments we all know and recognize from the past three years (as we read in Ed's post). Let's not overestimate what a beta tester does. Bugbear will do 99.9999% of the work on the game. What they need from a tester is technical feedback on how it performs on various configurations, and constructive criticism which comes only from fact based knowledge. They can do without, "I think these cars should handle like I say because I play GPL." Everybody thinks they know how a car should handle in a sim. I've always taken the view that only the people who actually raced the cars in real life (fact based knowledge) truly know if they are represented correctly in a game. Everybody else is just guessing. David G Fisher "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

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> Hi David, > > just be careful with the words you use. You're a GPL racer as well, > right? > Those who got GPL and realized it is something special, were also able > to do the same for many a newer simulation that has come out since then. > The problem is with the other, 'me too' GPL racers, who read the posts > of the people mentioned before, and made a religion out of them. I don't > want to go into sociology or whatever here, but I think you share > similar views. > > Therefore, it's perfectly OK to give a GPL racer a testing opportunity, > as long as that tester is also a GP3, RC2000 or whatever racer and can > enjoy those racing games for what they are meant to deliver, not how > they compare to GPL. > > -Gregor > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most

prejudiced > > when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not. So I > > wouldn't pay much attention to what they say. > >

DGF again: > Almost forgot. According to this article > http://www.gamesdomain.co.uk/gdreview/depart/jul01/rallyfeature_rcx.html , > RC2000 sold 1.5 million copies world wide (ymenard will surely give us > different numbers). Apparently, quite a few people thought RC2000 was an > excellent sim. So what led you to believe that many people here seem to think different then?? -- ed_

DGF again: So what led you to believe that many people here seem to think different then?? -- ed_

DGF: > Hmmm, playing N4 now? Yes I do.... infact I think many "GPL'ers" do too.. So I guess you're going to start bashing "die-hard" N4'ers now then? -- ed_

No you dont.. Try again. -- ed_ DGF words: > I know what your point is, and it's still crap.You're post was really meant > to remind us all how SOS was first deemed to be a mess, but later may people > changed their minds about it and now see it as a pretty good title.

Hmm... Does that means that my positive view of Rally Trophy does not count, me being a GPL diehard ?? Mikkel David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:V6_77.30681$[email hidden]... > Why doesn't this surprise me at all? GPL'ers bashing another sim. A sim in > which they've only seen the ALPHA version. Typical bullshit comments.Bunch

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> of know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. Seriously, if there is any > group of sim racers who's opinions of other sims mean absolutely nothing, > it's those from GPL die hards. > > I'll definitely be buying a copy of Rally Trophy now. > > David G Fisher > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]... > > > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from

GPL

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> > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > > shiver!! > > > > A few quotes: > > > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > > - HAH!!!! > > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before

release.

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> > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real > life > > physics... " > > > > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > > > ed_ > > > > > > >

Do you even read the other posts in this thread, or do you just troll and ramble ?? I'm a GPL'er and I'm alphatesting... and I like Rally Trophy, as do most of the other GPL'er that have tried it. Sometimes I wonder if you forget those little pills your mother told you to take every day. Mikkel http://www.simracing.dk David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mp_77.30714$[email hidden]... > IIari, > > Completely ignore those comments and this discussion. It's just more ofthe

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> same old garbage from the same old tiny but big-mothed crowd. > > Ignpore it. Ignore it. Ignore it. :-) > > And whatever you do, DO NOT give any GPL'ers beta testing opportunities of > Rally Trophy. That would be a huge mistake. > > David G Fisher > > "Ilari Lehtinen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9jp04s$32s$[email hidden]... > > Ask him for some backing - why did he feel the physics were a total > > disappointment and why it was a "piece of real junk" in general? And

where > > did he see the preview version - was it the real press preview version?To

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> > me that ranting sounded like a troll, nothing more. > > > > -Ilari > > > > > > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Still waiting for an answer to the last question. But I have no reason > > > to doubt the person in question on his credibilty and integrity. I've > > > raced him in GPL and N4 the last two years. However, I find it a bit > > > odd that all the sites who has previewed RT says the opposite, sites I > > > also rate very high on their opinions. > > > > > > > There is nothing more potentially destructive than > > > > the power of misplaced expectation. Unfulfilled, > > > > expectation is the mother of disappointment. > > > > Rather than jumping on the rumor wagon, let's just > > > > see what Rally Trophy turns out to be. > > > > > > I'm not jumping anything, but I definately want to try a demo first.

:)

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> > > > > > -- > > > Olav K. Malmin > > > remove .spam when replying > > > > >

"Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> writes: > Hmm... Does that means that my positive view of Rally Trophy does not count, > me being a GPL diehard ?? Yes, both you and me and many others are know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. :)

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> Mikkel > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:V6_77.30681$[email hidden]... > > Why doesn't this surprise me at all? GPL'ers bashing another sim. A sim in > > which they've only seen the ALPHA version. Typical bullshit comments. > Bunch > > of know nothing, pathetically biased a**holes. Seriously, if there is any > > group of sim racers who's opinions of other sims mean absolutely nothing, > > it's those from GPL die hards. > > > > I'll definitely be buying a copy of Rally Trophy now. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:WAR77.829$e%[email hidden]... > > > > > > I was *really* looking forward to this... but now I heard things from > GPL > > > racers thats seen the *alpha* version - that make think of SOS'37 and > > > shiver!! > > > > > > A few quotes: > > > > > > "Yesterday I saw a preview version of that new game "Rally Trophy" in > > > action. The designers call it the most realistic racing game to date. > > > - HAH!!!! > > > This is just a piece of real junk!!! " > > > > > > "....Try the demo if they are brave enough to publish one before > release. > > > I can promise total disappointment if you expect a simulation of real > > life > > > physics... " > > > > > > > > > Please, *please* say it aint so!! > > > > > > ed_ > > > > > > > > > > > > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Finally a voice of reason.. -Thom_j. "Gregor Veble" wrote:

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| Hi David, | | just be careful with the words you use. You're a GPL racer as well, | right? | | Those who got GPL and realized it is something special, were also able | to do the same for many a newer simulation that has come out since then. | The problem is with the other, 'me too' GPL racers, who read the posts | of the people mentioned before, and made a religion out of them. I don't | want to go into sociology or whatever here, but I think you share | similar views. | | Therefore, it's perfectly OK to give a GPL racer a testing opportunity, | as long as that tester is also a GP3, RC2000 or whatever racer and can | enjoy those racing games for what they are meant to deliver, not how | they compare to GPL. | | -Gregor | | David G Fisher wrote: | > | > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most

prejudiced | > when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not. So I | > wouldn't pay much attention to what they say. | > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Thanks Olav... just wanted to be sure ;) Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Hmm... Does that means that my positive view of Rally Trophy does notcount, > > me being a GPL diehard ?? > > Yes, both you and me and many others are know nothing, pathetically > biased a**holes. :) > > > Mikkel

> "David G Fisher" wrote > > Yea, that would of been great. They would of gave us such pearls ofwisdom > > like, "Why can't I powerslide these (FWD) cars through the turns likethe > > real life drivers do?" and, "These roads are way too narrow." Or maybewe > > would of heard, "The cars should have a lot more pitch and roll." This makes the assumption that the GPL fans want every sim to behave like GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip. Now I believe that the GPL physics gives the best feel so far. I don't know how accurate it is as I have never driven one of these cars. Possibly it lends itselfs to a more sideways style than it should. I just know it is fun. I think the era helps, in real life a 67 car vs a 2001 car may be more fun - especially to the non expert driver. Personally I love the patch to use the F2 engine (FD), because for me it gives a better balance of power & grip. Yet I remain happy there is no physics editor because the other factor that endears me to GPL is the superb on-line capability. My disappointment with Papyrus (though I understand the commercial reasons) is the lack of development of the GPL engine outside of N4. At the time of development we heard of punching in the parameters for other series for the physics engine and you have sports saloons, downforce, rally cars, FWD, 4WD etc. Of course this never materialised. I have yet to find anything that conveys the "feel". This is personal. It is a combination of my preference for the experience I want from a sim, my controller setup and my ability. This has not been taught from GPL, I have raced sims at a fairly average level, since Indy 500, GP1 etc. From day one of the GPL demo I thought "wow, this feels right". Whilst the development by the third party community has been outstanding (the graphics of the cars equals an official new release of comparative products IMHO) there is a strong desire for something new, with better everything, because this is what I expect. The development of sims in the last 10 years has been outstanding - so I expect a major development every one to two years. I am no less fickle or more loyal than any other simmer. I will drop GPL as soon as I simply want the precious limited sim time to drive something else. Believe me I have tried everything else and found many to be fun and good products with many additional and well executed features. Yet the feel thing has bought me back to GPL. If this makes me a hardened simmer, part of a small minority then so be it, I can understand why the sales figures go against my preferences. I would not dismiss any product for not driving like GPL, I just want it to feel right for me. It needs to match my perceptions not match GPL. I have very high hopes for Rally Trophy and don't want it to handle just like GPL! Cheers Tony

Nice one Tony... Jan. =--- "Tony Rickard" wrote...

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> > <snip> > This makes the assumption that the GPL fans want every > sim to behave like GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over > grip. > > <snip> > I would not dismiss any product for not driving like GPL, > I just want it to feel right for me. It needs to match my > perceptions not match GPL. > > I have very high hopes for Rally Trophy and don't want it > to handle just like GPL!

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > "David G Fisher" wrote > > > Yea, that would of been great. They would of gave us such pearls of > wisdom > > > like, "Why can't I powerslide these (FWD) cars through the turns like > the > > > real life drivers do?" and, "These roads are way too narrow." Or maybe > we > > > would of heard, "The cars should have a lot more pitch and roll." > > This makes the assumption that the GPL fans want every sim to behave like > GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip. > > Now I believe that the GPL physics gives the best feel so far. I don't know > how accurate it is as I have never driven one of these cars. Possibly it > lends itselfs to a more sideways style than it should. I just know it is > fun. I think the era helps, in real life a 67 car vs a 2001 car may be more > fun - especially to the non expert driver.

Dave K. of Papyrus said that the grip was tweaked to allow the cars to go a bit sideways, so it would be a bit easier to drive. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

You are joking, right? :-) I do remember very clearly quotes like the one's directly below. They thought they should be able to slide the FWD rally cars a lot more in RC2000. They wanted more pitch and roll. When many of them have commented on modern F1 sims, they said they wanted more cockpit movement. Because the suspensions are 10x stiffer in a modern F1 car than a '67 F1 car, that is not going to happen. They complain that the cars brake loose without enough warning (which is realistic). I can only think that many of them do want "every sim to behave like GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip." I have high hopes for Rally Trophy too. It looks fantastic. David G Fisher "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oVNa7.49024$[email hidden]...

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> > "David G Fisher" wrote > > > Yea, that would of been great. They would of gave us such pearls of > wisdom > > > like, "Why can't I powerslide these (FWD) cars through the turns like > the > > > real life drivers do?" and, "These roads are way too narrow." Or maybe > we > > > would of heard, "The cars should have a lot more pitch and roll." > > This makes the assumption that the GPL fans want every sim to behave like > GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip. > > Now I believe that the GPL physics gives the best feel so far. I don't

know > how accurate it is as I have never driven one of these cars. Possibly it > lends itselfs to a more sideways style than it should. I just know it is > fun. I think the era helps, in real life a 67 car vs a 2001 car may bemore > fun - especially to the non expert driver. > > Personally I love the patch to use the F2 engine (FD), because for me it > gives a better balance of power & grip. Yet I remain happy there is no > physics editor because the other factor that endears me to GPL is thesuperb > on-line capability. > > My disappointment with Papyrus (though I understand the commercialreasons) > is the lack of development of the GPL engine outside of N4. At the time of > development we heard of punching in the parameters for other series forthe > physics engine and you have sports saloons, downforce, rally cars, FWD,4WD > etc. Of course this never materialised. > > I have yet to find anything that conveys the "feel". This is personal. Itis > a combination of my preference for the experience I want from a sim, my > controller setup and my ability. This has not been taught from GPL, I have > raced sims at a fairly average level, since Indy 500, GP1 etc. From dayone

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> of the GPL demo I thought "wow, this feels right". > > Whilst the development by the third party community has been outstanding > (the graphics of the cars equals an official new release of comparative > products IMHO) there is a strong desire for something new, with better > everything, because this is what I expect. The development of sims in the > last 10 years has been outstanding - so I expect a major development every > one to two years. > > I am no less fickle or more loyal than any other simmer. I will drop GPL

as > soon as I simply want the precious limited sim time to drive somethingelse. > Believe me I have tried everything else and found many to be fun and good > products with many additional and well executed features. Yet the feelthing > has bought me back to GPL. If this makes me a hardened simmer, part of a > small minority then so be it, I can understand why the sales figures go > against my preferences. > > I would not dismiss any product for not driving like GPL, I just want itto

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> feel right for me. It needs to match my perceptions not match GPL. > > I have very high hopes for Rally Trophy and don't want it to handle just > like GPL! > > Cheers > > Tony > > > >

"David G Fisher" wrote > You are joking, right? :-) er no! > I can only think that many of them do want > "every sim to behave like GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip." I just gave my view - I cannot speak for anyone else. I don't consider the "GPL Community" to be one collective voice, but as diverse a set of opinions and personal preferences and requirements from sims as any other. I don't believe my view on any sim should be any more or less valuable because I find GPL currentysatisfies my requirements the best. My slant on RC2000 was that it seemed difficult to slide within the confines of the track. Something I would expect to do on a loose surface and with an FWD would expect to achieve through unsettling the car and brake bias etc.. Watching the replays of my own driving did not look like video footage of a rally - even for FWDs . Any decent looking slides were normally off the edges of the track. This was probably my lack of ability with this particular sim, but I just could not get into it as the immersive rally experience I had hoped, and I have done some albeit very low level rallying on narrow lanes where I slid around a lot more (but didn't hit that much!). The tracks & graphics were fantastic, and the end of the stage with FF on it felt like I had worked hard. It just didn't provide me with fantasy that I was driving a rally car. Like I said we each have our views. In my case whilst I want sims to be ultra realistic, I also require the fantasy element which allows me to compete at a level undoubtedly far beyond my abilities or experience. Maybe in the case of RC2000 I needed another 50% track width over realism to cater for my own abilities or limitations of a PC screen view? My point is this is my personal view as a rally fan and general simmer, not one that has only ever played GPL and compares directly to it. I see no benefit in the which sim is best argument, and I am sure I am not alone on this group for impatiently wanting better sims and wanting them NOW! > I have high hopes for Rally Trophy too. It looks fantastic. Yes I want it now. Did I mention my rally driving? Sign me up as tester now! Tony

>snip< >I don't consider the "GPL Community" to be one collective voice, but asdiverse a set of opinions > and personal preferences and requirements from sims as any other.< Firstly, your intentions are sound. Secondly, if you plan on offering a "diverse" opinion about GPL in here, you had better wear an NBC suit to protect you from the fallout !

"redTed" wrote

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> >snip< > >I don't consider the "GPL Community" to be one collective voice, but as > diverse a set of opinions > > and personal preferences and requirements from sims as any other.< > > Firstly, your intentions are sound. > Secondly, if you plan on offering a "diverse" opinion about GPL in here, > you had better wear an NBC suit to protect you from the fallout !

Diverse in respect to the fact that the current GPL players cannot be lumped together into a collective "they won't like this or would only consider N4 an alternative". In the context of this post as to whether GPL players would make good or bad beta testers for a rally sim I don't believe the generalisation has any merit.

Olav, This is interesting information and explains a lot.. Thank you -Thom_j. "Olav K. Malmin" wrote: | Dave K. of Papyrus said that the grip was tweaked to allow the cars to | go a bit sideways, so it would be a bit easier to drive. | | -- | Olav K. Malmin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

It was all very clear to me Tony... :) "Tony Rickard" wrote: | Diverse in respect to the fact that the current GPL players cannot belumped | together into a collective "they won't like this or would only consider N4 | an alternative". In the context of this post as to whether GPL playerswould | make good or bad beta testers for a rally sim I don't believe the | generalisation has any merit. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001