Let me start off by saying that I have searched the Usenet archives
for help with my problem, and I know Voodoo problems with Grand Prix
Legends have been covered ad nauseum, but I wasn't able to find
anything that helps.
First off, my system: I have a P3 500, Voodoo3 3000 AGP, Turtle Beach
Montego 2 sound card (I think), 128 MB RAM, Windows98.
I have owned Grand Prix Legends for about two years; I played it for a
few months when I first bought my computer, but when I went off to
college I kind of lost touch with it.
The problem is that GPL freezes after a lap or so (about 1-2 minutes)
into any session; the display is frozen. Sometimes when this happens
the sound becomes frozen and still audible, other times the sound is
silent. In both cases, I have to restart my computer.
This never used to happen. Since my GPL playing days of old, I have
formatted several times, but I don't think drivers are the problem,
since I don't have any problems with textures, or anything like that
(running GPL 1.2, DX 8.0, updated Voodoo3 drivers that I downloaded).
From what I've read, it sounds possible that my Voodoo3 card is
overheating. I don't understand why it would, though, since it never
used to, and I haven't overclocked it or anything. I suppose that when
I played GPL before, it was in an air-conditioned house, and now I
live on the third floor of a house without AC, where the temps can get
up to 85 or 90 (just an estimate). Would that change in external
environment really cause the card to overheat?
I removed the side of the case and positioned a fan (not a computer
fan, just a little 12" x 12" house fan) blowing onto the card. The
freezing up persists.
If I just sit in the pits during a session, the game doesn't freeze (I
haven't tried sitting for a full session, but I did sit for about 7
minutes without the game freezing; when I went to drive, the game
froze before I got to the end of pit lane). Also, althought the game
freezes in 640 x 480, it seems to freeze up faster in higher
resolutions. This all would seem to be consistent with the card
overheating. Is it?
I don't really play any other games; I used to play Quake 3, but that
was in the winter, in a cooler room. The only other game I've been
playing lately is Dirt Track Racing: Sprint Cars, which I would guess
is not as taxing on the graphics card. It runs without any problems.
Anyway, if anyone else experienced this or knows how to cure the
problem (besides waiting for summer to end), please let me know. Will
buying a fan to blow on the card inside the case do the trick? I
brought my Thrustmaster T2 wheel/pedal combo from home in anticipation
of playing; after a week of frozen screens, I'm really disappointed.
Thanks,
Matt
sounds like the soundcard and videocard are sharing an irq.
also turtle beach soundcards are junk.
Matt Barnes <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (55 lines)
> Let me start off by saying that I have searched the Usenet archives > for help with my problem, and I know Voodoo problems with Grand Prix > Legends have been covered ad nauseum, but I wasn't able to find > anything that helps. > > First off, my system: I have a P3 500, Voodoo3 3000 AGP, Turtle Beach > Montego 2 sound card (I think), 128 MB RAM, Windows98. > > I have owned Grand Prix Legends for about two years; I played it for a > few months when I first bought my computer, but when I went off to > college I kind of lost touch with it. > > The problem is that GPL freezes after a lap or so (about 1-2 minutes) > into any session; the display is frozen. Sometimes when this happens > the sound becomes frozen and still audible, other times the sound is > silent. In both cases, I have to restart my computer. > > This never used to happen. Since my GPL playing days of old, I have > formatted several times, but I don't think drivers are the problem, > since I don't have any problems with textures, or anything like that > (running GPL 1.2, DX 8.0, updated Voodoo3 drivers that I downloaded). > > From what I've read, it sounds possible that my Voodoo3 card is > overheating. I don't understand why it would, though, since it never > used to, and I haven't overclocked it or anything. I suppose that when > I played GPL before, it was in an air-conditioned house, and now I > live on the third floor of a house without AC, where the temps can get > up to 85 or 90 (just an estimate). Would that change in external > environment really cause the card to overheat? > > I removed the side of the case and positioned a fan (not a computer > fan, just a little 12" x 12" house fan) blowing onto the card. The > freezing up persists. > > If I just sit in the pits during a session, the game doesn't freeze (I > haven't tried sitting for a full session, but I did sit for about 7 > minutes without the game freezing; when I went to drive, the game > froze before I got to the end of pit lane). Also, althought the game > freezes in 640 x 480, it seems to freeze up faster in higher > resolutions. This all would seem to be consistent with the card > overheating. Is it? > > I don't really play any other games; I used to play Quake 3, but that > was in the winter, in a cooler room. The only other game I've been > playing lately is Dirt Track Racing: Sprint Cars, which I would guess > is not as taxing on the graphics card. It runs without any problems. > > Anyway, if anyone else experienced this or knows how to cure the > problem (besides waiting for summer to end), please let me know. Will > buying a fan to blow on the card inside the case do the trick? I > brought my Thrustmaster T2 wheel/pedal combo from home in anticipation > of playing; after a week of frozen screens, I'm really disappointed. > > Thanks, > MattMy PCI V3 3000 gets into trouble (kicks back to desktop) if the temperature
in here goes over 86 fahrenheit. One tell tale sign is if it happens with
more than one game. I found it's really quite sensitive, as if there's
certain threshold after which the 3D part shuts itself down.
Fortunately, it doesn't get that hot that often in here, so for the moment
I'm riding it out until the guy I got the V3 from grows tired of his
GeForce2 MX. ;-))
Jan.
=---
"Matt Barnes"wrote...
> Let me start off by saying that I have searched
> the Usenet archives for help with my problem,
> and I know Voodoo problems with Grand Prix Legends
> have been covered ad nauseum, but I wasn't able to
> find anything that helps.<snip>
"rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<tKk77.421$[email hidden]>...
> sounds like the soundcard and videocard are sharing an irq.
I'll look into that. But like I said, Dirt Track Racing: Sprint Cars
works fine. Would sharing an IRQ screw up some games but not others?
> also turtle beach soundcards are junk.
No argument here. It came with the computer.
Matt
Matt Barnes <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<tKk77.421$[email hidden]>...
> > sounds like the soundcard and videocard are sharing an irq.
>
> I'll look into that. But like I said, Dirt Track Racing: Sprint Cars
> works fine. Would sharing an IRQ screw up some games but not others?
>Yes i think so, check your device manager to see if the irq # is the same or
not.
I'd say a 90% probability that it's a video overheating crash. It may
not be purely heat that's causing it though. Is the heatsink solidly
attached to the V3 chip? If you can remove it, then put some thermal
paste on it and make sure that it has good contact.
The best way to tell if it's overheating is to touch the back of the
card while it's runing. If it's too hot to touch, something's wrong!
Vid cards will crash more easily at higher res, due to the greater
work being done. So that'd explain why its a little better in 640x480,
and is alright for a while in the pits.
Suggestions - See if you can UNDERclock the card, powerstrip is the
best program to use. v3 3000 is 166mhz stock, try dropping it to 150
or lower even. If you still have a problem, you know that this is not
the issue.
Definitely keep the fan going, try adding a small fan directly to the
heatsink. I used a couple of wood screws myself :P
Also, try disabling AGP 4x in the bios, can also help.
A similar post involving a geforce found dropping the AGP aperature
from 64 to 16 did the trick as well.
And check the irq sharing as suggested, could also be a problem.
Rafe Mc
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:41:48 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (19 lines)
>My PCI V3 3000 gets into trouble (kicks back to desktop) if the temperature >in here goes over 86 fahrenheit. One tell tale sign is if it happens with >more than one game. I found it's really quite sensitive, as if there's >certain threshold after which the 3D part shuts itself down. > >Fortunately, it doesn't get that hot that often in here, so for the moment >I'm riding it out until the guy I got the V3 from grows tired of his >GeForce2 MX. ;-)) > >Jan. >=--- >"Matt Barnes"wrote... >> Let me start off by saying that I have searched >> the Usenet archives for help with my problem, >> and I know Voodoo problems with Grand Prix Legends >> have been covered ad nauseum, but I wasn't able to >> find anything that helps. ><snip> >[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> I'd say a 90% probability that it's a video overheating crash. It may
> not be purely heat that's causing it though. Is the heatsink solidly
> attached to the V3 chip? If you can remove it, then put some thermal
> paste on it and make sure that it has good contact.
(helpful stuff snipped)
> And check the irq sharing as suggested, could also be a problem.
Thanks, everyone, for your help. Unfortunately, my video card does not
share an IRQ with the sound card (or anything else, for that matter),
so that isn't the problem. It looks like it's probably overheating;
when it's in use, the back of the card heats up to the point that I
can't touch it for more than a couple seconds. I'll make use of some
of the suggestions you made, Rafe.
Does anyone know why this would happen now, but not a couple years
ago? Like I said earlier, my room is hotter, but today it got down to
about 70 or so and it still crashed.
Thanks,
Matt
[email hidden] (Matt Barnes) wrote:
> It looks like it's probably overheating; when it's in use, the
> back of the card heats up to the point that I can't touch it
> for more than a couple seconds.
That's fairly normal for 3dfx chips, but it does mean they can be fairly
borderline when the weather gets warm. Try *under*clocking the card
significantly using one of the V3 utils floating around the net. That
should tell you whether the card's overheating for certain.
Oh, I should mention that the fan on my V3 stopped working once and it was
24 hours before I worked out why it kept locking up :->
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> I'd say a 90% probability that it's a video overheating crash. It may
> not be purely heat that's causing it though. Is the heatsink solidly
> attached to the V3 chip? If you can remove it, then put some thermal
> paste on it and make sure that it has good contact.
The heatsink does seem to be solidly attached.
> The best way to tell if it's overheating is to touch the back of the
> card while it's runing. If it's too hot to touch, something's wrong!
It's hot to the point that I can't touch it for more than 2 or 3
seconds.
> Suggestions - See if you can UNDERclock the card, powerstrip is the
> best program to use. v3 3000 is 166mhz stock, try dropping it to 150
> or lower even. If you still have a problem, you know that this is not
> the issue.
I got the program and underclocked the card -- I put it all the way
down to 125. Although I could run longer than before (a lap and a half
or two laps at Monza, compared to a half or three-quarters lap
before), it still freezes up.
> Also, try disabling AGP 4x in the bios, can also help.
>
> A similar post involving a geforce found dropping the AGP aperature
> from 64 to 16 did the trick as well.
The setting was 64 in the bios, but the only other option was 256, so
I assume that 64 would be 1x in my case.
I guess the next step for me is to remove the heat sink, add thermal
paste, and mount a fan on the card -- which seems ridiculous, given
that the card is as it came from Dell when I got my computer. I've not
overclocked it or anything. Seems pretty shoddy that a graphics card
would need such extreme cooling measures under normal operating
conditions.
Anyway, if I somehow screw up the card (I've never really done
anything of this scale before; installing drives and cards is about
the most I've done with computer components), or if the problem is
still not solved, I might just replace the damn thing.
I saw a GeForce2 400MX 64MB for $130 at Best Buy. Would this offer
comparable or better performance than my Voodoo3, which in the past
ran GPL very smoothly at 800x600? Is it a prudent purchase? And to my
understanding, I would have to use the D3D patch to get it to work
with GPL, right? (Is Glide a proprietary 3DFX-only thing?)
Matt
On 25 Jul 2001 15:47:26 -0700, [email hidden] (Matt Barnes)
wrote:
If it's the same as mine, it's pretty well attached :) Is it a big
aluminium heatsink, about 2" by 4"? If so, it should be more then
enough, as I said my V3 3000 runs fine at 200 mhz with the same
heatsink. Only added a big fan.
>> The best way to tell if it's overheating is to touch the back of the
>> card while it's runing. If it's too hot to touch, something's wrong!
>
>It's hot to the point that I can't touch it for more than 2 or 3
>seconds.
>Mine gets fairly warm, but that sounds too hot. Check how hot the
heatsink is getting. It won't be as hot as the back of the card, but
should be getting reasonably hot. If it's not very hot at all, then it
can't have very good contact with the V3 chip. In that case you may
have to remove the heatsink and re-attach it solidly.
It's still generating too much heat then, although at a reduced rate.
Takes longer to reach that "crash" temperature.
No, 64 mb is the AGP aperature, should have options of 16, 32, 64,
128, etc. Maybe try something lower. It theoretically should have no
effect, but a lot of people have found that it has a big impact.
AGP 1x, 2x and 4x is something very different. AGP 1x gives the most
compatability and least issues. It'll make almost zero difference in
performance as well. Go through all the different options in bios,
probably under "advanced chipset" or the like.
Sounds very odd too, but you probably just got a bum card. I'd hazard
a guess that the glue they used on the heatsink had a big bubble in
the centre or something similar. You can remove the heatsink with
acetone but it's tricky and needs some forcing. Obviously a last
resort.
Try directing the fan right at the heatsink if possible, or a second
fan as well. Try the same setup in GPL as well as some other games,
especially ones which use d3d and opengl. And try Glide in another
game as well if possible. You should get the same crashes if it's a
hardware overheating issue.
Glide is 3dfx only, and GPL runs best in Glide. But the d3d and opengl
patches work quite well except for the in-car view, where the mirrors
chew up the frame rate.
The gts and pro versions perform almost twice as fast as the mx, but
cost almost twice as much as well. I've got a feeling you'd be able to
get a GF2 mx for a bit less than that, as they go for around $150 here
(Ausralian dollars, or around $75 US).
Good luck
Rafe Mc
Quoted text (8 lines)
>[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... >> I'd say a 90% probability that it's a video overheating crash. It may >> not be purely heat that's causing it though. Is the heatsink solidly >> attached to the V3 chip? If you can remove it, then put some thermal >> paste on it and make sure that it has good contact. > >The heatsink does seem to be solidly attached. >Quoted text (10 lines)
>> Suggestions - See if you can UNDERclock the card, powerstrip is the >> best program to use. v3 3000 is 166mhz stock, try dropping it to 150 >> or lower even. If you still have a problem, you know that this is not >> the issue. > >I got the program and underclocked the card -- I put it all the way >down to 125. Although I could run longer than before (a lap and a half >or two laps at Monza, compared to a half or three-quarters lap >before), it still freezes up. >Quoted text (7 lines)
>> Also, try disabling AGP 4x in the bios, can also help. >> >> A similar post involving a geforce found dropping the AGP aperature >> from 64 to 16 did the trick as well. > >The setting was 64 in the bios, but the only other option was 256, so >I assume that 64 would be 1x in my case.Quoted text (8 lines)
> >I guess the next step for me is to remove the heat sink, add thermal >paste, and mount a fan on the card -- which seems ridiculous, given >that the card is as it came from Dell when I got my computer. I've not >overclocked it or anything. Seems pretty shoddy that a graphics card >would need such extreme cooling measures under normal operating >conditions. >Quoted text (10 lines)
>Anyway, if I somehow screw up the card (I've never really done >anything of this scale before; installing drives and cards is about >the most I've done with computer components), or if the problem is >still not solved, I might just replace the damn thing. > >I saw a GeForce2 400MX 64MB for $130 at Best Buy. Would this offer >comparable or better performance than my Voodoo3, which in the past >ran GPL very smoothly at 800x600? Is it a prudent purchase? And to my >understanding, I would have to use the D3D patch to get it to work >with GPL, right? (Is Glide a proprietary 3DFX-only thing?)Sounds to me like it happens to fast to be heat especially since it
still happens when underclocked and with the case open. I suggest you
make sure you dont have a background task running or a screen saver or
virus scan kicking in. Then try turning the graphics detail way down
and reducing the sounds heard to 4 or so.
[email hidden] (Matt Barnes) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...