N4 AI

In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you who have it, how good/bad is it? -- Scott Lyman ICQ 88979227

Horrible, worthless, waste of time. Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete race unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then there is no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a moment without the screen freaking out. Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you can find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more as a driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it might be worth the space on the hard drive. "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > who have it, how good/bad is it? > -- > Scott Lyman > ICQ 88979227

Scott Lyman wrote: > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > who have it, how good/bad is it? Other people have complained that AI cars run them over, and try to crowd them out while running abreast (all of which is true); my biggest complaint however is that the passing code is horrendous. The AI hardly ever tries to pass in the high groove in the turns, and as a result one slow car can bring the lead draft train to a screeching halt (and yeah the lapped cars won't get out of the way unless they are going significantly slower than the lead cars). John DiFool

this is the WHOLE reason I race online :) <fluffypony> "T.A. Miller" wrote:

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> > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete race > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then there is > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a > moment without the screen freaking out. > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you can > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more as a > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > -- > > Scott Lyman > > ICQ 88979227

Alt-tab works for me. I race 50% of the full race length and THAT takes 3-4 hours! Save game feature would have been nice. -Tim "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete race > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then thereis

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> no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a > moment without the screen freaking out. > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you can > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more as a > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > -- > > Scott Lyman > > ICQ 88979227 > >

New patch is out and the AI is much better!!! "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > who have it, how good/bad is it? > -- > Scott Lyman > ICQ 88979227

Back in ICR1 it was bad like that on ovals, except the slow car was high. I created a carset that had some really slow cars in it just because of that "feature". It could bring the whole field to a slow crawl and it made it difficult on high speeds tracks because you would come flying around to see a very slow crowd in front. Most of the time you had to pass in the grass. John DiFool wrote:

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> Scott Lyman wrote: > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > Other people have complained that AI cars run them over, and > try to crowd them out while running abreast (all of which is true); > my biggest complaint however is that the passing code is horrendous. > The AI hardly ever tries to pass in the high groove in the turns, and > as a result one slow car can bring the lead draft train to a screeching > halt (and yeah the lapped cars won't get out of the way unless they > are going significantly slower than the lead cars). > > John DiFool

It's not bad, but not what you would call the greatest either, at least not in the release version. With the patch released today however, I think you will be pleased. It is an awesome sim. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > who have it, how good/bad is it? > -- > Scott Lyman > ICQ 88979227

I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, both online and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making friends, joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and dealing with it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete race > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then there is > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a > moment without the screen freaking out. > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you can > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more as a > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you race > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of you > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > -- > > Scott Lyman > > ICQ 88979227 > >

Its ok but it seems like the AI let you away with way too much stuff, they try way too much to get outta your way. :( "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, bothonline > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making friends, > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and dealingwith

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> it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete

race

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> > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then there > is > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you

can > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more asa

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> > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it > > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you

race > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those ofyou

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> > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > -- > > > Scott Lyman > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > > >

What video card? With my V5 in D3D the screen gets trashed so bad it's hard to find the exit. "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Alt-tab works for me.

I wish I had hours to spend having fun, consecutively, but right now I don't so online racing isn't an option these days nor is offline racing if I can't save my place. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4,both online > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, makingfriends, > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour anddealing with

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> it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a

complete race > > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even thenthere > is > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze youinto the > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktopfor a > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4.And the > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionallyyou can > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of itmore as a > > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around incircles > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversionthen it

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> > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game,

a > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't letyou race > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For thoseof you

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> > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > -- > > > Scott Lyman > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > >

Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the day will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human behaviour. Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's why I love online racing. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Ronnie Bigwhip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LFNF6.427$%[email hidden]... > Its ok but it seems like the AI let you away with way too much stuff, they > try way too much to get outta your way. :( > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, both > online > > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making friends, > > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and dealing > with > > it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete > race > > > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then there > > is > > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into the > > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for a > > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And the > > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally you > can > > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it more as > a > > > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in circles > > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then it > > > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you > race > > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those of > you > > > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > > -- > > > > Scott Lyman > > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

No offense, but why do you need hours consecutively? I have had some fantastic races online that last as little as an hour. Some even less. I too have an extremely busy life and not much spare time for anything anymore, but I always manage to squeeze in at least a couple hours a week for online racing. I find it very enjoyable. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ae7b700$0$42870$[email hidden]... > I wish I had hours to spend having fun, consecutively, but right now I > don't so online racing isn't an option these days nor is offline > racing if I can't save my place. > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, > both online > > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making > friends, > > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and > dealing with > > it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a > complete race > > > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then > there > > is > > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you > into the > > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop > for a > > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. > And the > > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionally > you can > > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of it > more as a > > > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in > circles > > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion > then it > > > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, > a > > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let > you race > > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those > of you > > > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > > -- > > > > Scott Lyman > > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > > > > > > > >

Its still fun and N4 still rules. :) "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the day > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual humanbehaviour.

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> Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's why I > love online racing. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "Ronnie Bigwhip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LFNF6.427$%[email hidden]... > > Its ok but it seems like the AI let you away with way too much stuff,

they

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> > try way too much to get outta your way. :( > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > > > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, both > > online > > > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making friends, > > > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and

dealing

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> > with > > > it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Burnette > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete > > race > > > > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then > there > > > is > > > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into > the > > > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for

a > > > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And > the > > > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionallyyou > > can > > > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of itmore

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> as > > a > > > > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in > circles > > > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then > it > > > > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you > > race > > > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those

of

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> > you > > > > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > > > -- > > > > > Scott Lyman > > > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I'm sure that if N4 was meant to be an online game only, then there wouldn't be any AI at all. So, if it's broke then they should listen and fix it. It's sad to pay the money we did for half a game. "fluffypony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > this is the WHOLE reason I race online :)

God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If N4 had NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions of racing OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as some would like to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know of r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probably has been a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that many online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because most of the people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy loyalists for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature. Their past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a great sim but it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latest patch it still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were squashed. If they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but not all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should have had more and others that would have been happy with just online racing and no AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be enjoyable for those that choose to have it their way. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the day > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual humanbehaviour. > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's why I > love online racing.

Wouldn't it be cool if they programmed it th LEARN from what WE do on the track ? I realize that this would be a handicap for some online racers :) -Larry "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the day > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual humanbehaviour.

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> Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's why I > love online racing. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "Ronnie Bigwhip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LFNF6.427$%[email hidden]... > > Its ok but it seems like the AI let you away with way too much stuff,

they

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> > try way too much to get outta your way. :( > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:SAMF6.25490$[email hidden]... > > > I have to disagree, imho. I have had hours of great fun with N4, both > > online > > > and offline. The key to online is finding good races, making friends, > > > joining a league, etc. Offline is learning the ai behaviour and

dealing

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> > with > > > it. And now that the patch has been released, it is much better. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Burnette > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > "T.A. Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:VMBF6.1035$[email hidden]... > > > > Horrible, worthless, waste of time. > > > > > > > > Plus there is no save race feature, meaning you can't run a complete > > race > > > > unless you have 3 hours to sit in front of your PC - and even then > there > > > is > > > > no way to save your place before the AI decides to kamikaze you into > the > > > > wall. Hell, you can't even pause and alt-tab back to the desktop for

a > > > > moment without the screen freaking out. > > > > > > > > Unless you plan on racing multiplayer, there is no racing in N4. And > the > > > > multiplayer is almost as bad as the AI in most cases. Occasionallyyou > > can > > > > find a good race (no morons) on a good server, but rarely. > > > > > > > > Like GPL, N4 is fun to drive, but that's about it. I think of itmore

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> as > > a > > > > driving simulator than a racing simulator, and driving around in > circles > > > > gets old quick. If theuspits (Noonan) can do a 'Ring conversion then > it > > > > might be worth the space on the hard drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Scott Lyman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > In reading the user reviews from a few websites about the game, a > > > > > complaint I see a lot is of horrible AI. The demo doesn't let you > > race > > > > > against other cars, so I can't attest to this myself. For those

of

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> > you > > > > > who have it, how good/bad is it? > > > > > -- > > > > > Scott Lyman > > > > > ICQ 88979227 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On 27 Apr 2001 12:12:55 GMT, "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote: >God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If N4 had >NH's AI, it would be great.<snip> Are you talking about the N4 AI -after- the patch? I must admit it's been a while since I played NH and I can't really remember what the AI was like, but the N4 patch improved the AI a LOT! I did a 100-lap race at Bristol last night against 43 AI, imho the ultimate AI test with all that close racing :) During that race I causes one collision and the AI caused two collisions, in a realistic way that is. Unpatched N4's AI would ram me off the road, but yesterday they were very carefull, maintaining their line when I was passing them. I agree that the AI is now a tad too polite, but a 'perfect' AI has yet to be made for a racing sim and so far I'm having a very good time racing against N4's AI. Ofcourse there will be lots of situations where the AI reacts stupid, it will never be perfect, but the patch improved the AI (and lots of other things too!) more than I ever expected! Andre

Post patch, the AI are much better but still have some bugs. Try a green flag start at Daytona or California, the only two super speedways I tried so far, and see what happens. I had 3 cars at both tracks dive down to the grass at Cal. and the same for Daytona. Why don't the AI try to stay in your draft or try to follow you to stay in the draft? I understand if you are out in front and have to drive with the mirror to stay there, but if I change my line, why don't the AI follow that line? Nascar Heat already does this. If this is possible in N4, I wish there would be a way to turn it on. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather race N4 than Heat, but the AI in Heat is still better. > Are you talking about the N4 AI -after- the patch? I must admit it's > been a while since I played NH and I can't really remember what the AI > was like, but the N4 patch improved the AI a LOT! >

I didn't fine Heat's ai very realistic at all. I got nailed by them during yellows and going down pit road, almost every time. When they didn't fix that problem with the first patch was when I uninstalled it. I also found it pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us wreck. For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and shove them both aside. No matter, it appears that programming the ai with the 6dof physics is pretty complicated as both Heat and N4 have had problems with it. For me personally, I preferred N4's over Heat. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9cbno7$s6v$[email hidden]... > God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If N4 had > NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions of racing > OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as some would like > to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know of > r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probably has been > a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that many > online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to > mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because most of the > people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy loyalists > for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature. Their > past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a great sim but > it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latest patch it > still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were squashed. If > they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but not > all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should have had > more and others that would have been happy with just online racing and no > AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be enjoyable for > those that choose to have it their way. > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the day > > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human > behaviour. > > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's why I > > love online racing. > > >

Did you try the second patch? I dont remember where I got it. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NOmG6.34352$[email hidden]... > I didn't fine Heat's ai very realistic at all. I got nailed by them during > yellows and going down pit road, almost every time. When they didn't fix > that problem with the first patch was when I uninstalled it. I also foundit

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> pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us wreck. > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and shove > them both aside. > No matter, it appears that programming the ai with the 6dof physics is > pretty complicated as both Heat and N4 have had problems with it. For me > personally, I preferred N4's over Heat. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9cbno7$s6v$[email hidden]... > > God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If N4 > had > > NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions of > racing > > OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as some would > like > > to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know of > > r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probably has > been > > a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that

many > > online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to > > mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because most ofthe > > people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy > loyalists > > for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature.Their > > past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a great simbut > > it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latest patch it > > still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were squashed. > If > > they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but not > > all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should havehad > > more and others that would have been happy with just online racing andno

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> > AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be enjoyable > for > > those that choose to have it their way. > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > > > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the > day > > > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human > > behaviour. > > > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's

why

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> I > > > love online racing. > > > > > > > >

Thought the supposed 2nd patch wasn't out yet? -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "boredUF" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O%mG6.451$[email hidden]... > Did you try the second patch? I dont remember where I got it. > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NOmG6.34352$[email hidden]... > > I didn't fine Heat's ai very realistic at all. I got nailed by them during > > yellows and going down pit road, almost every time. When they didn't fix > > that problem with the first patch was when I uninstalled it. I also found > it > > pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us wreck. > > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and shove > > them both aside. > > No matter, it appears that programming the ai with the 6dof physics is > > pretty complicated as both Heat and N4 have had problems with it. For me > > personally, I preferred N4's over Heat. > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9cbno7$s6v$[email hidden]... > > > God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If N4 > > had > > > NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions of > > racing > > > OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as some would > > like > > > to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know of > > > r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probably has > > been > > > a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that > many > > > online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to > > > mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because most of > the > > > people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy > > loyalists > > > for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature. > Their > > > past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a great sim > but > > > it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latest patch it > > > still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were squashed. > > > If > > > they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but not > > > all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should have > had > > > more and others that would have been happy with just online racing and > no > > > AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be enjoyable > > for > > > those that choose to have it their way. > > > > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > > > > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think the > > day > > > > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human > > > behaviour. > > > > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. That's > why > > I > > > > love online racing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I hope you really don't race like that. :-) I agree that you could do this in normal mode. Did you ever try the Hardcore mode? >I also found it > pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us wreck. > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and shove > them both aside.

No, I really don't race like that , especially online :) Yes, I could do that in hardcore mode, which I thought was very unrealistic. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9cd1uj$nts$[email hidden]... > I hope you really don't race like that. :-) I agree that you could do this > in normal mode. Did you ever try the Hardcore mode? > > > >I also found it > > pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us wreck. > > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and shove > > them both aside. > > >

It's been out in beta form for about a MONTH!!! where have you been Donnie boy? :) actually the AI behave MUCH better now in NH. What they are working on is still some improvements AND they are adding menu items that allow patches to seemlessly be swapped or chosen from within the game, like it's done on Half-life. dave henrie "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S7nG6.34356$[email hidden]...

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> Thought the supposed 2nd patch wasn't out yet? > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "boredUF" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:O%mG6.451$[email hidden]... > > Did you try the second patch? I dont remember where I got it. > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:NOmG6.34352$[email hidden]... > > > I didn't fine Heat's ai very realistic at all. I got nailed by them > during > > > yellows and going down pit road, almost every time. When they didn't

fix > > > that problem with the first patch was when I uninstalled it. I also > found > > it > > > pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us > wreck. > > > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, andshove > > > them both aside. > > > No matter, it appears that programming the ai with the 6dof physics is > > > pretty complicated as both Heat and N4 have had problems with it. Forme

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> > > personally, I preferred N4's over Heat. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Burnette > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9cbno7$s6v$[email hidden]... > > > > God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If > N4 > > > had > > > > NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions

of > > > racing > > > > OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as somewould > > > like > > > > to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know > of > > > > r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probablyhas > > > been > > > > a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that > > many > > > > online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to > > > > mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because mostof > > the > > > > people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy > > > loyalists > > > > for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature. > > Their > > > > past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a greatsim > > but > > > > it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latestpatch

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> it > > > > still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were > squashed. > > > > > If > > > > they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but > not > > > > all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should

have > > had > > > > more and others that would have been happy with just online racingand

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> > no > > > > AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be > enjoyable > > > for > > > > those that choose to have it their way. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > > > > > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think > the > > > day > > > > > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human > > > > behaviour. > > > > > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai.

That's

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> > why > > > I > > > > > love online racing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ahhh, I was waiting for the official patch. Still, I might try reinstalling it and applying the beta patch to compare again. If I recall I also had a lot of crash to desktops in Heat also, maybe that will be better also. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:I5oG6.69336$[email hidden]... > It's been out in beta form for about a MONTH!!! where have you been > Donnie boy? > :) > actually the AI behave MUCH better now in NH. What they are working on is > still some > improvements AND they are adding menu items that allow patches to seemlessly > be swapped or chosen > from within the game, like it's done on Half-life. > dave henrie > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S7nG6.34356$[email hidden]... > > Thought the supposed 2nd patch wasn't out yet? > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "boredUF" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:O%mG6.451$[email hidden]... > > > Did you try the second patch? I dont remember where I got it. > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:NOmG6.34352$[email hidden]... > > > > I didn't fine Heat's ai very realistic at all. I got nailed by them > > during > > > > yellows and going down pit road, almost every time. When they didn't > fix > > > > that problem with the first patch was when I uninstalled it. I also > > found > > > it > > > > pretty unrealistic that I could plow through the ai and none of us > > wreck. > > > > For instance, squeeze between two cars where there isn't room, and > shove > > > > them both aside. > > > > No matter, it appears that programming the ai with the 6dof physics is > > > > pretty complicated as both Heat and N4 have had problems with it. For > me > > > > personally, I preferred N4's over Heat. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Don Burnette > > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > > > "BClay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:9cbno7$s6v$[email hidden]... > > > > > God forbid I say this... Nascar Heat has a helluva lot better AI. If > > N4 > > > > had > > > > > NH's AI, it would be great. (People do buy the sim with intentions > of > > > > racing > > > > > OFFLINE.) The online community is not the majority here, as some > would > > > > like > > > > > to believe, it's just that the majority that buy the game don't know > > of > > > > > r.a.s. or other newsgroups to voice thier concerns. There probably > has > > > > been > > > > > a few hundred thousand N4 games sold already. Hmmm, I don't see that > > > many > > > > > online or in the newsgroups. I guess it's the old saying coming to > > > > > mind..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease." I say this because most > of > > > the > > > > > people here that look for a honest answer get barraged by the Papy > > > > loyalists > > > > > for even asking for fixes or adding things like a savegame feature. > > > Their > > > > > past products had it, why not this one? I think that N4 is a great > sim > > > but > > > > > it still has bugs that need to be fixed. Even after this latest > patch > > it > > > > > still does have some issues, but the majority of the bugs were > > squashed. > > > > > > > If > > > > > they fix these remaining issues the game will be better for most but > > not > > > > > all. Remember that there are others that feel that the sim should > have > > > had > > > > > more and others that would have been happy with just online racing > and > > > no > > > > > AI. But the fact is, it does have offline racing and should be > > enjoyable > > > > for > > > > > those that choose to have it their way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:su5G6.31635$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Yeah, they can be a little wimpy at times. But hey, I don't think > > the > > > > day > > > > > > will ever come anyone can program an ai to replicate actual human > > > > > behaviour. > > > > > > Until they can, then we'll always find weaknesses in the ai. > That's > > > why > > > > I > > > > > > love online racing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <iweG6.26868$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >Wouldn't it be cool if they programmed it th LEARN from what WE do on the >track ? There's no 'global_hype' variable...? Good. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

It worked with my V5 but now with the patch, Alt-Tab no longer works!! :( "rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ae7b1cc$0$42873$[email hidden]...

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> What video card? With my V5 in D3D the screen gets trashed so bad it's > hard to find the exit. > > "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Alt-tab works for me. > > >

are you still using d3d or did you perhaps change it to opengl while/or after patching? dave henrie "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It worked with my V5 but now with the patch, Alt-Tab no longer works!! :( > > "rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3ae7b1cc$0$42873$[email hidden]... > > What video card? With my V5 in D3D the screen gets trashed so bad it's > > hard to find the exit. > > > > "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Alt-tab works for me. > > > > > > > >

That's weird, after the patch mine works - as long as I choose software cursor. "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It worked with my V5 but now with the patch, Alt-Tab no longerworks!! :( > > "rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3ae7b1cc$0$42873$[email hidden]... > > What video card? With my V5 in D3D the screen gets trashed so badit's

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> > hard to find the exit. > > > > "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Alt-tab works for me. > > > > > > > >

D3D. I don't think OGL is playable in N4 with the V5. Other problem I have is after patch N4 only runs once per reboot. In other words, if I play N4, exit the program, I can't start it up again until after I reboot. I used a no-cd fix before patch and now keep the cd in their so this may be Sierra's CD protection giving my cdrom drives fits but I've got 3 different CD-drives (50X Kenwood, DVD, CDRW) and all 3 suffer from this issue. -Tim "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8doH6.86584$[email hidden]... > are you still using d3d or did you perhaps change it to opengl while/or > after patching? > dave henrie > "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > It worked with my V5 but now with the patch, Alt-Tab no longer works!!:(

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> > > > "rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3ae7b1cc$0$42873$[email hidden]... > > > What video card? With my V5 in D3D the screen gets trashed so bad it's > > > hard to find the exit. > > > > > > "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Alt-tab works for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"rec.autos.simulators" <[email hidden]> wrote > That's weird, after the patch mine works - as long as I choose > software cursor. Wow, the newsgroup *really* anwers people sometimes <G> (seriously, unless you want to really continue posting as rec.autos.simulators, you should right click on your news server and write your real name). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <[email hidden]>, "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> writes: >Alt-tab works for me. > >I race 50% of the full race length and THAT takes 3-4 hours! Save game >feature would have been nice. Why does 50% take 3-4 hours? The real races aren't that long... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

That's my point. I can't tell you why it takes so long other than maybe all the yellow flags before the patch. Haven't tried 50% since the patch to see how long it takes now. -Tim "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "Tim Miser" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Alt-tab works for me. > > > >I race 50% of the full race length and THAT takes 3-4 hours! Save game > >feature would have been nice. > > Why does 50% take 3-4 hours? The real races aren't that long... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>That's my point. I can't tell you why it takes so long other than maybe all >the yellow flags before the patch. Haven't tried 50% since the patch to see >how long it takes now. > >> >Alt-tab works for me. >> > >> >I race 50% of the full race length and THAT takes 3-4 hours! Save game >> >feature would have been nice. >> >> Why does 50% take 3-4 hours? The real races aren't that long... >>

Yellow flags caused by you, or 'random' AI yellows? Big difference...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +27.07...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I ran a 40% online league race in an hour and a half tonight. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Tim Miser" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Alt-tab works for me. > > > >I race 50% of the full race length and THAT takes 3-4 hours! Save game > >feature would have been nice. > > Why does 50% take 3-4 hours? The real races aren't that long... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >> > >> Why does 50% take 3-4 hours? The real races aren't that long... > >> > > Yellow flags caused by you, or 'random' AI yellows? Big difference...<g> > > Eldred

Don't be silly, of course none of the yellows are my fault! Sheesh! ;)