Really jealous about Grand Tourismo 3

Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC? We have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC except for street cars. Racing F1 cars is a lot of fun, but they are real monsters and you really can't relate your own every day driving skills to them. For Cart and Nascar, it's the same idea, and, frankly, watching those races may be fun, but driving in a circle (oval) in a game is not so much fun. Rally comes close, and it is a lot of fun, but it's a race against the clock and not against others, and most of the available games are "arcady". I think the best street car racing simulation to date is still Viper Racing. It is excellent in many ways, except, of course, it only supports Vipers, and maybe that is why is didn't do so well? I sure hope that World Sports Cars isn't being overhyped. It just goes to show you that people are craving for such a game. If this simulation really provides a sound physics model and the ability to build custom cars and tracks, it may actually allow us to build and race souped up Honda Civics, Buick GNXs and other regular street cars from the past and present. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on WSC because it may be our only hope. p.s.: What ever happened to Grand AM racing??!! The physics modeling was supposed to be excellent... but it was never released!

> p.s.: What ever happened to Grand AM racing??!! The physics modeling was > supposed to be excellent... but it was never released! Wasnt that from Empire? If so it might have been WSC in the early days. It was indeed very very well done, and when I saw the video's of WSC it thought it was that game :) I think WSC will be good, no hype.

>"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC? GT3 is a simulation? I didn't know that :) It's a fun arcade racing game, with incredible deepness and some eye-piercing jaggies. Choosing between that and a solid WSC, it's an easy answer. Of course for any sim on the market, more deepness and viability is appreciated. People still race GPL after almost 3 years. That's something. Like Falcon 4. But GT3 isn't the end-of-all sim. If it had serious physics and serious tracks, now we would be talking of it differently. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> eye-piercing jaggies. Choosing between that and a solid WSC, it's an easy > answer. To explain my -no hype- line : I meant everything that will come out will be good enough imo to make up for all hype involved until release. Let me refresh... GPL only lives now because of the new versions which add gfxcard support. That's a important factor to understand, because if a (and _all_ are) simulator get's released the question is "Does the company respond to the critics of the actual users?" If they do then the lifespan of any sim can be increased. And with WSC I see a couple of devolpers which really dedicate there qualities as programmer and graphicartist to this simulation. SO, for short - when it gets released we have a whole series of buys to be reported and overtime it will get a high quality product. I'am not in the position of telling anyone, but I do think they can easily go for a 80% product and finnish it in _cooperation_ with hardcore simracers. My last point, which is important too imo, is the validation process of add-on's which really should stay with the West Bro's and get a sort of checksum/proof of quality. So we can get the following situation: You can have a production 100% sim installed _and_ beside that another copy with the _none_ approved add-on's. So when we race online, we can use the production copy only. (If someone is close to West Bro's please explain the last point - because that can be of great influcense on the 'managability' and 'proof-of-true-sim' status of the to be WSC. I think this sim has to have a open end, but also a closed end if it regards the true status/package which we can call the 'core' of the sim. Core: The sim with official or approved addons.) My 2 cents

You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is an excellent game. "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Px_A6.7$[email hidden]... > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC?

Yes, I did. And the graphics in the NFS series are awesome, but the physics... what physics? It's a pure arcade game. It's fun, but again, you can't apply your real life driving knowledge to it. "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9b2hmv$nmo$[email hidden]... > You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is an excellent > game.

OK, fair statement. I've never tried this (wanting to) but how about Bleem running on a PC? I think GT2 was one of the games that would run under Bleem on a PC. Anyone tried it? "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s_3B6.126$[email hidden]... > Yes, I did. And the graphics in the NFS series are awesome, but the > physics... what physics? It's a pure arcade game. It's fun, but again,you > can't apply your real life driving knowledge to it. > > "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9b2hmv$nmo$[email hidden]... > > You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is anexcellent > > game. > > >

Yes I tryed, but it wasn't a drivable one....

Bleem, despite the fact that they contiune to advertise it on their website, is no longer updating their software. The last build came over a year ago right around the time GT2 was released. As a result GT2 is not supported. The orginal GT does work but it is quite tricky to get running correctly/smoothly/stable. The Real Car Simulator looked pretty promising but I don't think it is being released in the US. You could also try Sports Car GT, there are a ton of addon cars and the physics, although not quite as fun as GT, are pretty high quality and can be tweaked to your liking. "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9b2joh$6a8$[email hidden]... > OK, fair statement. I've never tried this (wanting to) but how aboutBleem

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> running on a PC? I think GT2 was > one of the games that would run under Bleem on a PC. > > Anyone tried it? > > "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:s_3B6.126$[email hidden]... > > Yes, I did. And the graphics in the NFS series are awesome, but the > > physics... what physics? It's a pure arcade game. It's fun, but again, > you > > can't apply your real life driving knowledge to it. > > > > "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9b2hmv$nmo$[email hidden]... > > > You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is an > excellent > > > game. > > > > > > > >

"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Px_A6.7$[email hidden]... > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on thePC? We > have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC exceptfor > street cars. Racing F1 cars is a lot of fun, but they are realmonsters and > you really can't relate your own every day driving skills to them.For Cart > and Nascar, it's the same idea, and, frankly, watching those races maybe > fun, but driving in a circle (oval) in a game is not so much fun.Rally > comes close, and it is a lot of fun, but it's a race against the clockand > not against others, and most of the available games are "arcady". What's wrong with NFS:PU? It's got a true 4-point physics system and quite detailed handling of all the Porsches, from the venerable 356 to the current GT1's... --KC

In article <Px_A6.7$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC? We > have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC except for > street cars. All game platforms have their flagship games. That's why I've got a PC, a PS2, a PS1, a Dreamcast, an N64 and I will be getting an Xbox and a Gamecube when they come out. OK, I haven't got much room under the television:-) - Michael

I have to admit, I've bought three versions of the NFS series, but haven't tried PU, I though it would be more of the same. I did hear something about there being some new physics modeling (where there really was none before), but is it realistic at all? I guees I'll have to try it... I'll look for a demo. Thanks. "Kasey Chang (use EXCITE.COM instead!)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pt8B6.199$[email hidden]... > What's wrong with NFS:PU? It's got a true 4-point physics system > and quite detailed handling of all the Porsches, from the venerable > 356 to the current GT1's... > > --KC

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:40:06 -0400, "Alain" <[email hidden]> scribbled: >I have to admit, I've bought three versions of the NFS series, but haven't >tried PU, I though it would be more of the same. I did hear something about >there being some new physics modeling (where there really was none before), >but is it realistic at all? I guees I'll have to try it... I'll look for a >demo. Thanks. http://www.3dfiles.com/games/needforspeedporscheunleashed.shtml (If you hadn't found it yet) -Slash -- "Ebert Victorious" - The Onion

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:40:06 -0400, "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I have to admit, I've bought three versions of the NFS series, but haven't >tried PU, I though it would be more of the same. I did hear something about >there being some new physics modeling (where there really was none before), >but is it realistic at all? I guees I'll have to try it... I'll look for a >demo. Thanks. It ain't GPL... (where have I heard that before? :) But it is decent. My only NFS reference points are 4 & 5, and 5 (PU or Porsche2000) is far superior. Good enough to keep me interested for three weeks or so of the championships and test driver mode. Give it a try. "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:20:01 +0100, MP <[email hidden]> wrote: hi, Porsche Unlimited is pretty much the best of the NFS5 games for me. I liked the first one a heckuva lot and sorta skipped the second as by then the 3dfx craze was the thing and the first release of nfs2 didn't support it. NFS2SE was better, but my enthusiasm had waned by then. NFS3 was the first step forward from the 1st game and was wonderfully enhanced with tons of addon cars. Playing the General Lee and racing against the Starsky and Hutch car and the Batmobile (for lack of a better description) was an experience not yet simulated on any other system(except NFS4, I suppose). NFS4 was just more of the same. Incrementally better and also with tons of new user-created addon vehicles. The handling still wasn't realistic and the car still floated above the ground in replays, but what the hell, still not too bad. The came NFS5 or Porsche. Much better handling and you can feel the difference the different chassis and engines made. Try playing the early 911 turbos with a level 4 turbo on a twisty circuit. wheeee. It's still one of the better pc racing games (note not Sim) around. As for GT2, I managed to get it working under the emulator EPSXE. I have some snapshots taken of a replay with the RUF Porsche vs a Viper and some others which are mindblowingly good. EPSXE basically enhances the PSX graphics by using the PC 3dcard to up the resolution and filtering/aliasing of the original psx graphics. Unfortunately the view / drawing distance and popup are still much in evidence, but that is unavoidable. As for the GT2 is not a sim argument, 100% correct. The enjoyment it brings me is more due to the 500 plus cars built in and the relatively good approximation of all the fun bits which driving is made up of. Also the variety of different handling cars make switching from a 4 wheel drive to rear wheel drive a lot of fun. It may not be GPL or even Indycar Racing, but what it lacks in realism it makes up for in playability and then some. If only GPL had had a dumbed down arcady mode, you guys might have been able to praise and be playing GPL2 or even 3 by now. There's a lot to be said for making a game the many more people can enjoy. I'm sick and tired of the elitist attitude which I had myself until I actually sat down and tried GT2. Another one of my character flaws. Regards all, Ian

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:14:52 -0400, "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC? We >have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC except for >street cars. Racing F1 cars is a lot of fun, but they are real monsters and >you really can't relate your own every day driving skills to them. For Cart >and Nascar, it's the same idea, and, frankly, watching those races may be >fun, but driving in a circle (oval) in a game is not so much fun. Rally >comes close, and it is a lot of fun, but it's a race against the clock and >not against others, and most of the available games are "arcady".

You really want to drive a FWD Front engine car around Hockenheim? For me, I'd put a Dodge Neon in the far ditch before I'd get any speed out of it. --- http://go.to/ra300z

That's too bad. I was looking forward to a Bleem that would run PS2 stuff. "vailman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Gh5B6.42192$[email hidden]... > Bleem, despite the fact that they contiune to advertise it on theirwebsite, > is no longer updating their software. The last build came over a year ago > right around the time GT2 was released. As a result GT2 is not supported. > The orginal GT does work but it is quite tricky to get running > correctly/smoothly/stable. > > The Real Car Simulator looked pretty promising but I don't think it isbeing > released in the US. You could also try Sports Car GT, there are a ton of > addon cars and the physics, although not quite as fun as GT, are prettyhigh

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> quality and can be tweaked to your liking. > > > "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9b2joh$6a8$[email hidden]... > > OK, fair statement. I've never tried this (wanting to) but how about > Bleem > > running on a PC? I think GT2 was > > one of the games that would run under Bleem on a PC. > > > > Anyone tried it? > > > > "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:s_3B6.126$[email hidden]... > > > Yes, I did. And the graphics in the NFS series are awesome, but the > > > physics... what physics? It's a pure arcade game. It's fun, but

again,

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> > you > > > can't apply your real life driving knowledge to it. > > > > > > "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:9b2hmv$nmo$[email hidden]... > > > > You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is an > > excellent > > > > game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Px_A6.7$[email hidden]... > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC?We <snip> If it could be brought up to PC standards, I agree it would be nice. However, I don't miss the console philosophy at all. In my mind a game which 'features hundreds of cars' can damn well have them available without some endless license quest or entering 'cheats'. MW

"Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is an excellent >game. NFS5 (Porsche Unleashde) is much better, but still not in the GT3 league. For one thing GT3 has better force-feedback support, a first for a console game. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

> In article <Px_A6.7$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC? We > > have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC except for > > street cars. > Have you ever played the GT series of games? I don't miss them at all. Singularly unimpressed.

"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Px_A6.7$[email hidden]... > Why can't we have a simulation like the upcoming GT3 for PS2 on the PC?We > have every other type of racing simulation available on the PC except for > street cars. Racing F1 cars is a lot of fun, but they are real monstersand > you really can't relate your own every day driving skills to them. ForCart > and Nascar, it's the same idea, and, frankly, watching those races may be > fun, but driving in a circle (oval) in a game is not so much fun. Rally > comes close, and it is a lot of fun, but it's a race against the clock and > not against others, and most of the available games are "arcady". You mean like a sim version of Need For Speed? Yes that would rule. But alas, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

NFS PU (or 5), actually has pretty good physics, I would call it simlite. The physics are probably on par with what GT3 will have. But then you get into the whole thing of just racing Porsche's, not exactly my favorite exotic car company. There is no comparing PU to GT3 in that regard. "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s_3B6.126$[email hidden]... > Yes, I did. And the graphics in the NFS series are awesome, but the > physics... what physics? It's a pure arcade game. It's fun, but again,you > can't apply your real life driving knowledge to it. > > "Jeff Henjes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9b2hmv$nmo$[email hidden]... > > You never bought any of the Need For Speed line? NFS3 was/is anexcellent > > game. > > >

> > If only GPL had had a dumbed down arcady mode, you guys might have > been able to praise and be playing GPL2 or even 3 by now. There's a > lot to be said for making a game the many more people can enjoy. I'm > sick and tired of the elitist attitude which I had myself until I > actually sat down and tried GT2. Another one of my character flaws. I hate to say it, but I actually prefer F1CS2000 on the PS2 more than the PC version. I don't even have it installed anymore (although, it did look sharp on my Geforce 3, hehe), it's just a more fun dumbed down version of the PC version. Totally unrealistic, but fun. It's what I was hoping Spirit of Speed 1937 was going to be. A dumbed down version of GPL. I think GPL on the PS2 would be really cool also, but it would have to be about 1000 times more forgiving.

That was what I was asking in another thread some time ago... Being live in Hong Kong I had the GT3 for more than 3 weeks now. The graphics are stunning and since I am not a car driver so I cannot tell how good it is. The cars (I have tried some Class C FRs and Class A 4WDs) are definitely present more grip and response better in elevation change. It may not be GPL but it is way better than N4S:PU! And if you do not aware already, they have F1 cars hidden in it. The cars models are generally a little compressed and the tracks are not in Real Life (tm). There is a "Seattle" track but I am not sure if the track is authentic at all. I really love to see such games on PC!!! Since my place is filled with Japanese-made vechicles <G> and many cars in the game like VW Bettle 2 (okay this is German), Skyline GTR (R34), LANEVO, AE86, etc, are actually found running on the streets here. Since there is very few Japanese made racing game on Windows platform, I am afraid we have to wait for "Bleem!"-like emulator. Griffin.

Certain parts of the Seattle track are very close to the look of downtown Seattle, especially the section that approaches Safeco field , when I saw the demo of this I had to do a double take, almost thought it was real, hahah WSC will be our GT3 for the PC and then some !!! ;-) the latest shots of WSC are very close to the quality of GT3 http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ On 29 May 2001 00:52:42 -0700, [email hidden] (Griffin Cheng) wrote:

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>That was what I was asking in another thread some time ago... > >Being live in Hong Kong I had the GT3 for more than 3 weeks now. The >graphics are stunning and since I am not a car driver so I cannot tell >how good it is. The cars (I have tried some Class C FRs and Class A >4WDs) are definitely present more grip and response better in >elevation change. It may not be GPL but it is way better than N4S:PU! >And if you do not aware already, they have F1 cars hidden in it. > >The cars models are generally a little compressed and the tracks are >not in Real Life (tm). There is a "Seattle" track but I am not sure if >the track is authentic at all. > >I really love to see such games on PC!!! Since my place is filled with >Japanese-made vechicles <G> and many cars in the game like VW Bettle 2 >(okay this is German), Skyline GTR (R34), LANEVO, AE86, etc, are >actually found running on the streets here. Since there is very few >Japanese made racing game on Windows platform, I am afraid we have to >wait for "Bleem!"-like emulator. > > >Griffin.

Thanks for the info. But from the screenshots, most of them shown are "GT" cars. Will there be any street cars? BTW, my friend tells me that the "F1" cars in GT3 are not "real" F1 cars modelled. Griffin. [email hidden] (Rich#8) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> WSC will be our GT3 for the PC and then some !!! ;-) > > > the latest shots of WSC are very close to the quality of GT3 > > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ >

>"Griffin Cheng" <[email hidden]> wrote > But from the screenshots, most of them shown are "GT" cars. Will there beany street cars? > > BTW, my friend tells me that the "F1" cars in GT3 are not "real" F1 carsmodelled. The F1 cars are actually HISTORICAL Formula One cars. How amazing! Nobody really has told yet if they handle like 80's F1 (with turbo and/or active suspension, etc..). Here's the full list of standard non-special cars in GT3. The list is fairly old but I think it covers most of the licensed cars : Alfa Romeo 156 Super Turismo 156 V6 2.5v Aston Martin DB7 V8 Vantage Audi S4 TT 1.8 Quattro (2000) BMW 328Ci (2000) Chevrolet Camaro SS (2001) Camaro Z28 (1997) Corvette C5-R #64 Racer Corvette C5 Z06 Corvette GrandSport (1996) Chrysler PT Cruiser Viper GTSR/LM Team Oreca/PlayStation #51 (2000) Citro�n Xsara Rallier (2000) Daihatsu Mira TR-XX Avanzato R (1997) st�ria X4 Dodge Viper GTS (2000) Viper GTSR ALMS #91 Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo Plus Ford Escort WRC Rallier (1998) Focus WRC (1999) GT40 (1966) GT40 Gulf Racer (1969) Mustang SVT Cobra R (2000) Gillet Vertigo Racer (1997) Honda Accord Euro R Civic SiRII (1993) Civic TypeR version II (2000) CL 3.2 TypeS CR-X delSol SiR (1995) Integra TypeR version II (1998) NSX TypeR (1992) NSX TypeS Zero (1999) NSX JGTC/Arta NSX JGTC/Raybrig NSX JGTC/Castrol-Mugen S2000 (2000) S2000 Mugen Tuned (2000) S2000 TypeV [Variable Gear Steering/VGS] (2001) Spoon Sports Civic (2001) Spoon Sports S2000 (2001) Jaguar XJ220 GT Spec Racer XJ220 Street (1992) XKR (1999) Lamborghini Diablo GT Lancia Delta Integrale Rallier Stratos Lister Storm V12 LM (1999) Lotus Elise 190 (1998) Elise Motorsport (1999) Elise Sport 350 (2000) Esprit Sport 350 Mazda 787B Racer (1991) Demio GL-X Eunos Roadster (1989) Eunos Roadster (1993) Roadster 1.8RS (1998) Roadster RS [updated] (2001) RX7 RS (1999) RX7 RZ RX7 Savanna GT SA Turbo RX7 Sananna Infini III RX8 Prototype (2001) Mercedes-Benz CL600 CLK55 AMG CLK Tourer SLK230 Kompressor Mini Cooper 1.3i (1999) Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R (1997) GTO VR-4 (1995) GTO VR-4 (1999) Lancer EvoIV GSR (1996) Lancer EvoV GSR (1998) Lancer EvoVI GSR (2000) Lancer EvoVI by Mine*s Lancer EvoVI Rallier Lancer EvoVI Tommi Makinen Edition (2000) Lancer EvoVII GSR Lancer EvoVII Rallier Prototype Nissan 180SX TypeX (1996) Fairlady Z Version S Twinturbo (1998) Fairlady Z Concept Car (2002) Silvia S13 K's 1800cc (1988) Silvia S13 K's 2000cc (1991) Silvia S15 Spec R (2000) Silvia S15 Varietta Skyline R32 GTS-t Type M (1991) Skyline R32 GT-R Vspec II (1994) Skyline R33 GT-R Vspec (1997) Skyline R34 GT-R N1 Vspec by Mine*s Skyline R34 GT-R Vspec (1999) Skyline R34 GT-R Vspec II (2000) Skyline JGTC/Calsonic (2000) Skyline JGTC/Pennzoil-Nismo (1999) Skyline JGTC/Zexel-Loctite (2000) R390 GT1 LM Racer (1998) R390 GT1 Street (1998) Opel/Vauxhall Astra DTM Team Phoenix Speedster Calibra Tourer (1995) Pagani Zonda C12 Zonda C12 S Panoz GTR1 Racer Peugeot 206 S16 206 Rallier (1999) Renault Clio V6 Trophy Clio Sport V6 24v (2000) Ruf 3400s CTR 2 RGT Shelby Cobra (1967) Subaru Impreza 22B STi (1998) Impreza Rallier (1999) Impreza Rallier Prototype (2001) Impreza WRX STi (2001) Impreza WRX Sports WAGON STi(2001) Impreza WRX STi Version VI (1999) Impreza WRX STi Version VI Wagon (1999) Legacy B4 Blitzen (2000) Legacy B4 RSK (1998) Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B (1996) Suzuki AltoWORKS Suzuki Sports Limited (1997) Tickford No confirmed cars TommyKaira ZZ-S Coupe (2000) Toyota Altezza AS2000 (1998) Altezza RS200 (1998) Celica GT-Four (1995) Celica SSII (2000) Corolla Rallier (1999) GT-One Racer (1999) GT-One Street (1999) MR2 G-Limited (1998) MR2 GT-S (1998) MR-S S-Edition (2000) MR-S JGTC/Autobacs-A'PEXi (2000) Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex (1985) Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex Shigeno Edition Supra RZ Twinturbo (1997) Supra SZ-R (1997) Supra JGTC/DensoSARD (2000) Supra JGTC/Castrol-Tom's (2000) Vitz Euro Edition Vitz RS 3Door (2001) TVR Griffith 500 (1999) Speed Twelve Tuscan SpeedSix Vector M12 Volkswagen newbeetle 2.0 (1999) newbeetle RSi newbeetle Cup Lupo Cup -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I stand corrected. According to my friend (I have not played GT3 enough to exploit the cars, only my younger brother has PS2 and I am 2bz with GPL :p ) the F1 car has no "turbo" to add to the engine(?) and the tires last roughly 4 laps. I am not sure if the engines hae turbo or not. One post mentioned that GT3 is the 1st game to support FFB but it is not. "Shutoko Battle 0" (Tokyo Xtreme Racer 0?) supports both MS Sidewinder FFB wheel and the new Logitech wheel (not the old beloved Wingman Formula Force ). BTW, WSC only features "GT" cars, not street cars. That is what I find GT3 fun to run with. May be it is just me. Griffin.

On 30 May 2001 02:44:31 -0700, [email hidden] (Griffin Cheng) wrote: >BTW, WSC only features "GT" cars, not street cars. Initially, but it will have tools to build any kind of car.