OT : Little "tickle" to our nascar friends, F1 crash in Australia

Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice session ? 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the wall, that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by air fences and tires anyway. I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too old to learn and improve things around you. -- PGP : 0xAFFA916C

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NASCAR's last road course fatality at Riverside over twenty years ago? Rusty Wallace hit the wall head on at Watkins Glen last year--he's a big fan of soft walls. Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval tracks. I suppose you could build the track like a colliseum, with the fans looking down into an arena. If a driver blows his right front tire, he keeps going through turn one into the parking lot. The first things to look at, I think, are crumple zones and soft walls. "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice session >? > >1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the wall, >that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake >too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see >well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing >it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by air >fences and tires anyway. > >I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too old >to learn and improve things around you.

-- Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practicesession > ? > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. > > -- > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > >

yes, Busch Series driver Jimmy Johnson would probably not be with us right now if it weren't for those styrofoam walls at Watkins Glen last year. The gravel trap did absolutely nothing to slow him down cause he basically "jumped" the gravel and went full speed (more or less) head-on into the styrofoam. That was one of the most incredible sights I've ever seen, to see that crash, then to see him get out and jump up and down on the roof pumping his arms in the air. "Jon Willeke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NASCAR's last road course fatality > at Riverside over twenty years ago? Rusty Wallace hit the wall head > on at Watkins Glen last year--he's a big fan of soft walls. > > Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval > tracks. I suppose you could build the track like a colliseum, with > the fans looking down into an arena. If a driver blows his right > front tire, he keeps going through turn one into the parking lot. > > The first things to look at, I think, are crumple zones and soft > walls. > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice

session > >? > > > >1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > >that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > >too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > >well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel isslowing > >it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > >fences and tires anyway. > > > >I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > >to learn and improve things around you. > -- > Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

A driver died in the Nascar race at the Glen in the early-mid 90's. Went off at the end of the back straight. The next year they put that chicane in. d "Jon Willeke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NASCAR's last road course fatality > at Riverside over twenty years ago? Rusty Wallace hit the wall head > on at Watkins Glen last year--he's a big fan of soft walls. > > Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval > tracks. I suppose you could build the track like a colliseum, with > the fans looking down into an arena. If a driver blows his right > front tire, he keeps going through turn one into the parking lot. > > The first things to look at, I think, are crumple zones and soft > walls. > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice

session > >? > > > >1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > >that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > >too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > >well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel isslowing > >it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > >fences and tires anyway. > > > >I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > >to learn and improve things around you. > -- > Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

comparing accidents is a pointless endeavor. We could drum up any # wrecks in any series that would 'justify' our beliefs. I notice the walls that nearly crippled Olivier Panis for life in Montreal are still there with no extra runoff. Similarly, we can't use the HORRIFIC Geoff Bodine truck crash at Daytona as proof of the strength of rolling tank construction. My only concern with a soft wall would be the driver who doesn't completely loose control but drifts just high enough to 'tag' the wall. Would the soft properties of a soft wall act like a vacum and suck the car into wall rather than just letting it skid along the concrete wall for a few yards? "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practicesession > ? > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. > > -- > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > >

No.. JD McDuffie died at Watkins in 1991. -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott The Pits: PowerSims Magazine (http://www.theuspits.com) Jon Willeke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NASCAR's last road course fatality > at Riverside over twenty years ago? Rusty Wallace hit the wall head > on at Watkins Glen last year--he's a big fan of soft walls. > > Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval > tracks. I suppose you could build the track like a colliseum, with > the fans looking down into an arena. If a driver blows his right > front tire, he keeps going through turn one into the parking lot. > > The first things to look at, I think, are crumple zones and soft > walls. > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice session > >? > > > >1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the wall, > >that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > >too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > >well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > >it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by air > >fences and tires anyway. > > > >I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too old > >to learn and improve things around you. > -- > Jon Willeke <[email hidden]>

"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. Gravel is not the best way to slow down a car. It has been shown that pavement is a better choice.

at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravel like they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]...

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> gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > session > > ? > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > wall, > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you

brake > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel isslowing

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> > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by > air > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too > old > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > -- > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > >

the "panis" wall is shielded with tires now, and has been so since the crash. With regards to the "soft" wall you can easily make a wall which will sustain the enrgy of car coming at 300 kph with a 2� angle but which will give way to the same car coming at 300 kph with a 50� angle. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: chPn6.495614$[email hidden]... > comparing accidents is a pointless endeavor. We could drum up any # > wrecks in any series that would 'justify' our > beliefs. I notice the walls that nearly crippled Olivier Panis for lifein > Montreal are still there with no extra runoff. Similarly, we can't usethe

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> HORRIFIC Geoff Bodine truck crash at Daytona as proof of the strength of > rolling tank construction. > My only concern with a soft wall would be the driver > who doesn't completely loose control but drifts just high enough to 'tag' > the wall. Would the soft properties of a soft wall act like a vacum and > suck the car into wall rather than just letting it skid along the concrete > wall for a few yards? > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > session > > ? > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > wall, > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you

brake > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel isslowing

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> > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by > air > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too > old > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > -- > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > >

I have trouble seeing if you are trying to make a joke or not... since there was no :-) or something similar I will assume that no you are not making a joke. So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE pavement, tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS the car as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what I mean. "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: mgRn6.1972$[email hidden]...

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> > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by > air > > fences and tires anyway. > > Gravel is not the best way to slow down a car. It has been shown that > pavement is a better choice. > > >

Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get airborne in the first place??? Dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravellike

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> they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > > session > > > ? > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > > wall, > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you > brake > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't

see > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is > slowing > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protectedby > > air > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are nevertoo

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> > old > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > -- > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get airborne in the first place??? Dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravellike

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> they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > > session > > > ? > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > > wall, > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you > brake > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't

see > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is > slowing > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protectedby > > air > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are nevertoo

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> > old > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > -- > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get airborne in the first place??? Dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravellike

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> they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > > session > > > ? > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > > wall, > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you > brake > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't

see > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is > slowing > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protectedby > > air > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are nevertoo

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> > old > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > -- > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > >

And what caused the car to flip in the first place?? Dave "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mgRn6.1972$[email hidden]...

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> > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by > air > > fences and tires anyway. > > Gravel is not the best way to slow down a car. It has been shown that > pavement is a better choice. > >

>"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. Yeah... let's just put GRAVEL TRAPS on the high sides of oval tracks <VBG> -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

he was too late on the brakes, slid and hit the curb "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: 0aSn6.380$[email hidden]...

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> Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car > flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get > airborne in the first place??? > > Dave > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravel > like > > they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > > > session > > > > ? > > > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch

the

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> > > wall, > > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you > > brake > > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't > see > > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is > > slowing > > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected > by > > > air > > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never > too > > > old > > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: yfSn6.14591$[email hidden]... > > Yeah... let's just put GRAVEL TRAPS on the high sides of oval tracks <VBG> >Start by putting them on the low sides instead of this so nice looking grass which has a tremendous braking potential as evrybody knows...

>at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravel like >they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel Okay, let me get this straight. You want to put gravel in place of the grass at places like Charlotte, Daytona, Dega, etc. Hmmm. I can just see the drivers' meeting the morning they announce that little tidbit. I think they better turn off the live mics before they announce it though. "Okay guys, we're replacing all the grass in the front tri-oval and quad-oval areas around the country for safety reasons. So, instead of just sliding through the grass and probably being able to drive on, you'll sink up to your axles and require at least two tow trucks to get you out. You'll probably lose two or three laps while this process is handled and you'll be listening to gravel bouncing off the bottom of your cars for at least thirty laps after you've returned to the race track. Any questions?" Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

They aren't pro-active. They're not even re-active. You would think that since Earnhardt's face was smashed against the steering wheel causing a skull fracture from front to back that they would at least make full-faced helmets mandatory. Nope. Dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practicesession > ? > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. > > -- > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > >

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:03:56 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: ...

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>So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE pavement, >tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. > >If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS the car >as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. > >Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Would he have flipped when there was no gravel? Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

AndrewS wrote: > > Gravel is not the best way to slow down a car. It has been shown that > pavement is a better choice. But not VERTICAL pavement.

> My only concern with a soft wall would be the driver >who doesn't completely loose control but drifts just high enough to 'tag' >the wall. Would the soft properties of a soft wall act like a vacum and >suck the car into wall rather than just letting it skid along the concrete >wall for a few yards? Yes it would. Not only that, it would probably stop a car travelling 150+ mph in just a few feet and might possibly even sling the car, spinning, back out into traffic. I can't imagine the idiocy of this idea not gelling in the minds of the people proposing this suggestion. How stupid would it be to put soft walls around the turns at Darlington? I'm all for soft walls at the road courses and I'm sure Jimmy Johnson is too. Let's do it. One thing that hasn't been advertised about his crash though, mostly because it would hinder the cause of soft wall lunatics, is that, not only did Jimmy punch through about 10 feet of styro but, he also punched right through the guardrail. How many people know that? He didn't hit a concrete wall, he knocked a hole in a steel guardrail, thereby transferring some of the energy of the crash to the guardrail. Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

>With regards to the "soft" wall you can easily make a wall which will >sustain the enrgy of car coming at 300 kph with a 2� angle but which will >give way to the same car coming at 300 kph with a 50� angle. Okay, how about the car hitting at a 10� angle? Any wall that has any kind of "give" at an oval is going to be nothing but trouble. Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

>> Yeah... let's just put GRAVEL TRAPS on the high sides of oval tracks <VBG> >> >Start by putting them on the low sides instead of this so nice looking grass >which has a tremendous braking potential as evrybody knows... Are you new to racing? Explain to me how the addition of gravel to the inside of the track would have, in any possible way, saved Dales' life. I doubt very seriously that you would have even one WC driver step up and say, "yeah, let's add gravel traps to the inside of the ovals we race on." I mean, where the hell are you saying put the gravel traps? In tri- and quad-ovals? Not one Cup driver is going to want to see this. Not one. Read my lips, NOT ONE. In the spacious grassy expanses of the turns at Martinsville? Yeah, let's replace two feet of grass with gravel. That'll be a real hoot when one driver cuts across it, throws some gravel out on the track and then all the other drivers, for the next twenty laps are cussing in their radios about rocks pelting their windshields. Like I said before, gravel traps and styro at the road courses, beautiful, no problem. Besides, it shows us who is adept at getting through the gravel without hitting anything and without sinking his car up to its' axles. Kind of like Rusty did last year at Watkins. Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

It'd defy the laws of gravity to get the kitty litter in a gravel trap @ Daytona not avalance down the 31-deg. banking, dontcha think? --Steve Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practicesession > ? > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. > > -- > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > >

>"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote > Start by putting them on the low sides instead of this so nice lookinggrass > which has a tremendous braking potential as evrybody knows... Hmmmm, no. Grass make cars slide, which is good on the infield. Notice that Schumi FLIPPED after a simple out-of-road excursion. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

It might be worse than that! First car into the gravel stops. Second car into the gravel hits first car. Continue up to 10 cars or as high as needed. :-( Jason. Dave Casey wrote: > > "Okay guys, we're replacing all the grass in the front tri-oval and quad-oval > areas around the country for safety reasons. So, instead of just sliding > through the grass and probably being able to drive on, you'll sink up to your > axles -- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

"doubleu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:97ods5$604$[email hidden]... > yes, Busch Series driver Jimmy Johnson would probably not be with us right > now if it weren't for those styrofoam walls at Watkins Glen last year.The > gravel trap did absolutely nothing to slow him down cause he basically > "jumped" the gravel and went full speed (more or less) head-on into the > styrofoam. That was one of the most incredible sights I've ever seen, to > see that crash, then to see him get out and jump up and down on the roof > pumping his arms in the air. Yep, that was an impressive crash what with going straight in and all that styrofoam flying everywhere. It was great to see him get out safely.

On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:38:17 GMT, [email hidden] (Jon Willeke) wrote: >Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval >tracks.... Nah, it'd be great. The gravel traps and air bags and tire walls would take up about 80% of the available track surface, so you'd have a single lane of traffic and no passing. Just like F1. How's that tickle ya? :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

yes because he flipped on the curb "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: [email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:03:56 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > ... > >So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE pavement, > >tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. > > > >If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS the

car

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> >as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. > > > >Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what I mean. > > Would he have flipped when there was no gravel? > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ > Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

did it NEVER happen in nascar history someone gets pushed, goes on the grass on the inside and sameshe the INSIDE all or even more "funny" comes back on the track while spinning ang gets hits by another guy coming ? NEVER EVER ? of course you can't put gravel on the OUTSIDE of your circus (in terms of roman circus, like the circus maximus in Rome where they also had "car" races") but at least on the inside, even if it avoids ONE big dangerous crash, isn't it enough ? "Dave Casey" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: s_Tn6.8884$%[email hidden]... > >> Yeah... let's just put GRAVEL TRAPS on the high sides of oval tracks<VBG> > >> > >Start by putting them on the low sides instead of this so nice lookinggrass > >which has a tremendous braking potential as evrybody knows... > > Are you new to racing? Explain to me how the addition of gravel to theinside > of the track would have, in any possible way, saved Dales' life. I doubtvery > seriously that you would have even one WC driver step up and say, "yeah,let's > add gravel traps to the inside of the ovals we race on." I mean, wherethe > hell are you saying put the gravel traps? In tri- and quad-ovals? Notone > Cup driver is going to want to see this. Not one. Read my lips, NOT ONE.In > the spacious grassy expanses of the turns at Martinsville? Yeah, let's > replace two feet of grass with gravel. That'll be a real hoot when onedriver > cuts across it, throws some gravel out on the track and then all the other > drivers, for the next twenty laps are cussing in their radios about rocks > pelting their windshields. > > Like I said before, gravel traps and styro at the road courses, beautiful,no > problem. Besides, it shows us who is adept at getting through the gravel > without hitting anything and without sinking his car up to its' axles.Kind

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> of like Rusty did last year at Watkins. > > Dave Casey > Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) > www.teamcasey.net > www.lvkc.com > www.buycoolcrap.com >

Jeff Vincent wrote:

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> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:38:17 GMT, [email hidden] (Jon Willeke) > wrote: > > >Gravel traps and runoffs are a little harder to implement at oval > >tracks.... > > Nah, it'd be great. The gravel traps and air bags and tire walls > would take up about 80% of the available track surface, so you'd have > a single lane of traffic and no passing. Just like F1. > > How's that tickle ya? :)

Excellent response. It perfectly sums up the feeling I get watching F1 after the race to the first corner. > "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was > nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into > a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark Lord, did that man ever know about racing!!! I just wish he had spent more time in NASCAR rather than open wheels...

So a combination of the curb, and then the gravel, caused his car to flip twice....yup, I can see how that's safer....lol dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EjSn6.102$[email hidden]...

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> he was too late on the brakes, slid and hit the curb > > > "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > 0aSn6.380$[email hidden]... > > Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car > > flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get > > airborne in the first place??? > > > > Dave > > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > > > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the

gravel

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> > like > > > they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > > > > > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > > > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free

practice

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> > > > session > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch > the > > > > wall, > > > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because

you > > > brake > > > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (Ididn't > > see > > > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is > > > slowing > > > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which isprotected > > by > > > > air > > > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you arenever

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> > too > > > > old > > > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

And the gravel helped it out...please take the time to refer to incidents involving Michael Andretti from approx 2 years ago, and Patrick Carpentier (twice I believe) last season. Your beloved gravel caused Andretti to flip numerous times when he hit it sideways. Carpentier also had a wreck like that, doing the sideways roll. Lastly, Carpentier could have seriously injured himself when the gravel trap *launched* him into a tire wall, flipping him completely over a 10' high fence.... Gravel traps ARE NOT safe..... Dave "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zpYn6.140$[email hidden]...

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> yes because he flipped on the curb > > "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > [email hidden]... > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:03:56 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > ... > > >So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE pavement, > > >tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. > > > > > >If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS the > car > > >as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. > > > > > >Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what I mean. > > > > Would he have flipped when there was no gravel? > > > > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ > > Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ > >

Even worse....first car flips 10 times because the tires catch. If the driver is lucky enough not to flip, once his car is out, he's dropping gravel on the track, potentially causing damage to other cars, and more importantly, tires.... Dave "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It might be worse than that! > > First car into the gravel stops. Second car into the gravel hits first > car. Continue up to 10 cars or as high as needed. :-( > > Jason. > > Dave Casey wrote: > > > > "Okay guys, we're replacing all the grass in the front tri-oval and

quad-oval > > areas around the country for safety reasons. So, instead of justsliding > > through the grass and probably being able to drive on, you'll sink up toyour > > axles > -- > Jason Monds > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) > http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/sport/story.html?in_review_id=366928&i n_review_text_id=312612 Be sure to pay attention to the last four paragraphs. David G Fisher "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practicesession > ? > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch thewall, > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected byair > fences and tires anyway. > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never tooold > to learn and improve things around you. > > -- > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > >

They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell the blood. David G Fisher "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bsYn6.141$%[email hidden]... > did it NEVER happen in nascar history someone gets pushed, goes on thegrass > on the inside and sameshe the INSIDE all or even more "funny" comes backon

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> the track while spinning ang gets hits by another guy coming ? > > NEVER EVER ? > > of course you can't put gravel on the OUTSIDE of your circus (in terms of > roman circus, like the circus maximus in Rome where they also had "car" > races") but at least on the inside, even if it avoids ONE big dangerous > crash, isn't it enough ? >

You saw Schumacher's crash and think he would of been better off bouncing off of asphalt? Ok. Somehow though, I don't expect him to be suggesting that to the FIA as part of his duties with the Gradn Prix Drivers' Association. David G Fisher "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c4Zn6.710$[email hidden]... > And the gravel helped it out...please take the time to refer to incidents > involving Michael Andretti from approx 2 years ago, and Patrick Carpentier > (twice I believe) last season. Your beloved gravel caused Andretti toflip

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> numerous times when he hit it sideways. Carpentier also had a wreck like > that, doing the sideways roll. Lastly, Carpentier could have seriously > injured himself when the gravel trap *launched* him into a tire wall, > flipping him completely over a 10' high fence.... > > Gravel traps ARE NOT safe..... > > Dave > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zpYn6.140$[email hidden]... > > yes because he flipped on the curb > > > > "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > > [email hidden]... > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:03:56 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > ... > > > >So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE pavement, > > > >tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. > > > > > > > >If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS

the > > car > > > >as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. > > > > > > > >Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what Imean.

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> > > > > > Would he have flipped when there was no gravel? > > > > > > > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > > > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ > > > Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ > > > > > >

Hello?? It was a flat turn...he shouldn't have been bouncing in the first place...and you call F1 safe...lol Dave "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RqZn6.139194$[email hidden]... > You saw Schumacher's crash and think he would of been better off bouncing > off of asphalt? > > Ok. > > Somehow though, I don't expect him to be suggesting that to the FIA aspart

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> of his duties with the Gradn Prix Drivers' Association. > > David G Fisher > > > "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:c4Zn6.710$[email hidden]... > > And the gravel helped it out...please take the time to refer to

incidents > > involving Michael Andretti from approx 2 years ago, and PatrickCarpentier > > (twice I believe) last season. Your beloved gravel caused Andretti to > flip > > numerous times when he hit it sideways. Carpentier also had a wrecklike

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> > that, doing the sideways roll. Lastly, Carpentier could have seriously > > injured himself when the gravel trap *launched* him into a tire wall, > > flipping him completely over a 10' high fence.... > > > > Gravel traps ARE NOT safe..... > > > > Dave > > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:zpYn6.140$[email hidden]... > > > yes because he flipped on the curb > > > > > > "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > > > [email hidden]... > > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:03:56 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > ... > > > > >So, if your car is going straight, under control, OF COURSE

pavement,

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> > > > >tarmac, asphalt, call it whatever you want is best. > > > > > > > > > >If your car is sideways, slipping, spinning, rolling, gravel STOPS > the > > > car > > > > >as pavement just makes the car slide or rebound on it. > > > > > > > > > >Look at schumi's crash this morning and you'll see exactly what I > mean. > > > > > > > > Would he have flipped when there was no gravel? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > > > > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ > > > > Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ > > > > > > > > > > >

Troll....and you're not very good at it... Dave "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:feZn6.139158$[email hidden]... > They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell theblood.

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> > David G Fisher > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bsYn6.141$%[email hidden]... > > did it NEVER happen in nascar history someone gets pushed, goes on the > grass > > on the inside and sameshe the INSIDE all or even more "funny" comes back > on > > the track while spinning ang gets hits by another guy coming ? > > > > NEVER EVER ? > > > > of course you can't put gravel on the OUTSIDE of your circus (in terms

of > > roman circus, like the circus maximus in Rome where they also had "car" > > races") but at least on the inside, even if it avoids ONE big dangerous > > crash, isn't it enough ? > > > >

How about paying attention to this point form your article.... "While he shrugged off the accident, Schumacher did criticise race organisers. He said there had been a problem with the yellow warning flags and said the transition from grass to gravel, which probably caused his car to flip, was not good enough." Were they sleeping on October 31, 1999, when Greg Moore's car hit the grass and catapulted into the wall, mortally wounding him?? Sure doesn't seem like it.... Dave "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GbZn6.139133$[email hidden]... >http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/sport/story.html?in_review_id=366928&i

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> n_review_text_id=312612 > > > Be sure to pay attention to the last four paragraphs. > > David G Fisher > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice > session > > ? > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the > wall, > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you

brake > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel isslowing

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> > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by > air > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too > old > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > -- > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell theblood. "My God we've created a monster!" -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I posted this about a week ago..........Here it is again. I saw on one of the many shows this week (think it was on RPM2NITE) that a place in Indiana makes these "soft walls". I guess a few F1 tracks have already ordered and installed them for the upcoming season. These walls, when seen from a cross-sectional view, look like big, thick radiators. they have 2 layers, one (inside) being rubber and the other some other material. On the inside they are shaped like radiator fins, and the walls come in sections which can be easily replaced after 3 major impacts take place. They are hard enough that there would not be the need for any clean up after a wreck, like with traditional foam soft walls. However, and this is exactly what they said on TV.........Traditional concrete walls only absorbs 5% of the energy before it reaches the drivers body. These new walls absorb 95% of the energy before it reaches the driver. 95%!!!!!!!!!!!!! According to RPM2NITE, it would cost $1.2 Mil. to fit a 1 1/2 mile track with these walls. They sound like something NASCAR needs to SERIOUSLY look into. Todd On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:56:49 GMT, [email hidden] (Dave Casey) wrote:

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>> My only concern with a soft wall would be the driver >>who doesn't completely loose control but drifts just high enough to 'tag' >>the wall. Would the soft properties of a soft wall act like a vacum and >>suck the car into wall rather than just letting it skid along the concrete >>wall for a few yards? > >Yes it would. Not only that, it would probably stop a car travelling 150+ mph >in just a few feet and might possibly even sling the car, spinning, back out >into traffic. I can't imagine the idiocy of this idea not gelling in the >minds of the people proposing this suggestion. How stupid would it be to put >soft walls around the turns at Darlington? > >I'm all for soft walls at the road courses and I'm sure Jimmy Johnson is too. >Let's do it. One thing that hasn't been advertised about his crash though, >mostly because it would hinder the cause of soft wall lunatics, is that, not >only did Jimmy punch through about 10 feet of styro but, he also punched right >through the guardrail. How many people know that? He didn't hit a concrete >wall, he knocked a hole in a steel guardrail, thereby transferring some of the >energy of the crash to the guardrail. > > >Dave Casey >Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) >www.teamcasey.net >www.lvkc.com >www.buycoolcrap.com

Do you know how to read ? He flipped ON THE CURB, he was too lat on the brakes, sli, came on the curb SIDEWAYS and that made him flip, then he was slowed and stopped by the gravel... "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: f1Zn6.708$[email hidden]...

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> So a combination of the curb, and then the gravel, caused his car to flip > twice....yup, I can see how that's safer....lol > > dave > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EjSn6.102$[email hidden]... > > he was too late on the brakes, slid and hit the curb > > > > > > "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: > > 0aSn6.380$[email hidden]... > > > Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car > > > flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get > > > airborne in the first place??? > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... > > > > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the > gravel > > > like > > > > they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel > > > > > > > > > > > > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message

news:

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> > > > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... > > > > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! > > > > > > > > > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free > practice > > > > > session > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even

touch

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> > the > > > > > wall, > > > > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because > you > > > > brake > > > > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I > didn't > > > see > > > > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel

is

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> > > > slowing > > > > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is > protected > > > by > > > > > air > > > > > > fences and tires anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are > never > > > too > > > > > old > > > > > > to learn and improve things around you. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

well, you will have Dave StOnge explaining why it doesn't work because it will SUCK the car AND the driver and turn their spine into slime or something like that (it is a joke, Dave, it is a joke) It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American friends here are just going nuts everytime someone (anyone, they are not choosy) suggest ANY change in nascar security/organisation. F1 is changing every year and we consider it a normal process, it is called evolution and even if it makes for races which are not as thrilling as a nascar race where 4 guys come side by side of the last corner and try to puch each other into the wall to win the race, it is still VERY interesting. For the record did anybody see the aerial shots of the Ferrari in time practice yesterday while taking the double 90� corner ? how the hell does he get THAT grip ? Anyway it seems that suggesting a change in nascar would be like ripping the heart of an american tradition; this country is so full of contradictions taht it is very hard for us outsiders to understand it, someday I would like to have a COLD deate about it but of course here is not the place...not with the HOT guys roaming around. I feel that "tradition" whatever it is doesn't stand a chance when the life of people are at stake, the FIRST thing someone should think, when they are organizing a race/series is "have I done everything to protect the drivers, marshalls, spectators, mechanics....", it is particularily alien to me because as many europeans I come from "old" places, my home city is just 2002 years old (yes 2002) so when I see/read about "American tradition" I have trouble figuring out, maybe that is also part of the american "strangeness" in some aspects, they have this feeling of youth in their country and thus they want to have "traditional" things to get a collective identity, I respect that, but when it comes to motor racing, and peoples live I think that change is not a bad thing. Okay that was my serious post of the week, now back to the usual level WAAAAZZZZZUP ? "Glockenspiel" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: [email hidden]...

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> I posted this about a week ago..........Here it is again. > > I saw on one of the many shows this week (think it was on RPM2NITE) > that a place in Indiana makes these "soft walls". I guess a few F1 > tracks have already ordered and installed them for the upcoming > season. These walls, when seen from a cross-sectional view, look like > big, thick radiators. they have 2 layers, one (inside) being rubber > and the other some other material. On the inside they are shaped like > radiator fins, and the walls come in sections which can be easily > replaced after 3 major impacts take place. They are hard enough that > there would not be the need for any clean up after a wreck, like with > traditional foam soft walls. However, and this is exactly what they > said on TV.........Traditional concrete walls only absorbs 5% of the > energy before it reaches the drivers body. These new walls absorb 95% > of the energy before it reaches the driver. 95%!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > According to RPM2NITE, it would cost $1.2 Mil. to fit a 1 1/2 mile > track with these walls. They sound like something NASCAR needs to > SERIOUSLY look into. > > Todd > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:56:49 GMT, [email hidden] > (Dave Casey) wrote: > > >> My only concern with a soft wall would be the driver > >>who doesn't completely loose control but drifts just high enough to

'tag' > >>the wall. Would the soft properties of a soft wall act like a vacum and > >>suck the car into wall rather than just letting it skid along theconcrete > >>wall for a few yards? > > > >Yes it would. Not only that, it would probably stop a car travelling150+ mph > >in just a few feet and might possibly even sling the car, spinning, backout > >into traffic. I can't imagine the idiocy of this idea not gelling in the > >minds of the people proposing this suggestion. How stupid would it be toput > >soft walls around the turns at Darlington? > > > >I'm all for soft walls at the road courses and I'm sure Jimmy Johnson istoo. > >Let's do it. One thing that hasn't been advertised about his crashthough, > >mostly because it would hinder the cause of soft wall lunatics, is that,not > >only did Jimmy punch through about 10 feet of styro but, he also punchedright > >through the guardrail. How many people know that? He didn't hit aconcrete > >wall, he knocked a hole in a steel guardrail, thereby transferring someof the

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> >energy of the crash to the guardrail. > > > > > >Dave Casey > >Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) > >www.teamcasey.net > >www.lvkc.com > >www.buycoolcrap.com > >

>It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American >friends here are just going nuts everytime someone (anyone, they are not >choosy) suggest ANY change in nascar security/organisation. It has nothing to do with being an American or British or Martian or any other kind of person. It has to do with using my brain and realizing that putting current soft wall technology along the walls at an oval travel is complete stupidity. You keep going on and on about how F1 does this and F1 does that. Big Freaking Deal! How many ovals does F1 race on? Zero, if my somewhat feeble American mind remembers properly. NASCAR races on two, let me say that again, TWO road courses. And BOTH of them have soft walls at critical areas on the track. As soon as you or anyone else comes up with a suggestion for change that isn't completely idiotic, all of us moronic NASCAR folks will be ready to listen. Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

Michael had said earlier in the day before his wreck that he wasn't happy about that corner. It wasn't a curb he hit. There is about a half inch drop where the pavement ends and the gravel starts. It was that drop that caused him to barrel roll. Txl wrote in message ...

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>he was too late on the brakes, slid and hit the curb > > >"Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: >0aSn6.380$[email hidden]... >> Ummm....nope. Asphalt is easier and prevents any problems with the car >> flipping....speaking of flipping, what caused Schumacher's car to get >> airborne in the first place??? >> >> Dave >> >> "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:93Sn6.93$[email hidden]... >> > at least on the inside instead of grass...you can even paint the gravel >> like >> > they did in australia so it doesn't look like gravel >> > >> > >> > "rik anthrax" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: >> > sBNn6.5553$[email hidden]... >> > > gravel traps on an oval? now that would be funny! >> > > >> > > Txl <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> > > news:ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]... >> > > > Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free

practice

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>> > > session >> > > > ? >> > > > >> > > > 1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch >the >> > > wall, >> > > > that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you >> > brake >> > > > too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I

didn't >> see >> > > > well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is >> > slowing >> > > > it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which isprotected

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>> by >> > > air >> > > > fences and tires anyway. >> > > > >> > > > I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never >> too >> > > old >> > > > to learn and improve things around you. >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > PGP : 0xAFFA916C >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> >> > >

"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jx5o6.192$[email hidden]... > well, you will have Dave StOnge explaining why it doesn't work because it > will SUCK the car AND the driver and turn their spine into slime or > something like that (it is a joke, Dave, it is a joke) In a previous post you mention that I can't read....you can't either obviously. It wasn't me talking about the soft walls...it was another Dave.... Dave

"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jx5o6.192$[email hidden]... > well, you will have Dave StOnge explaining why it doesn't work because it > will SUCK the car AND the driver and turn their spine into slime or > something like that (it is a joke, Dave, it is a joke) > > It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American > friends Friends..??? We Americans don't have friends....we have Customers... :) dave henrie btw in order of preference if all races were shown at the same time, this is what I would watch.: CART F1 BTCC/ATCC Nascar FIA/ALMS Trans Am World Superbike/Ama Superbike/FIA 500 Grand Prix bikes Speedvision World Challenge (can't include such series as DTM cuz the dang thing doesn't get much air here) Unlimited Hydroplanes Grand American Series Reno Air RAces Go Karts Pinewood Derby Nascar Trucks/Busch Series Motorola Cup Local R/C races Slot Car races Hot Wheel Loopdeloops... :) My preference is any racing with Wings and slicks...just imagine when the vintage F15 and F16 fighters are de-commissioned and we can slap some big tires on and go round a superspeedway...:) :> :o dave henrie

"Dave St.Onge" > In a previous post you mention that I can't read....you can't either > obviously. It wasn't me talking about the soft walls...it was another > Dave.... > > Dave There you have it...we'll have Dave and I'll be the 'other' Dave...:) (and yes, I am concerned about incidental contact that GRABS the car and produces an immeadiate cessation of forward motion) - the other dave

ok, so what do you suggest to improve security on the ovals on the outside ? same question goes to dave. "Dave Casey" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: Fs7o6.11011$%[email hidden]... > >It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American > >friends here are just going nuts everytime someone (anyone, they are not > >choosy) suggest ANY change in nascar security/organisation. > > It has nothing to do with being an American or British or Martian or anyother > kind of person. It has to do with using my brain and realizing thatputting > current soft wall technology along the walls at an oval travel is complete > stupidity. You keep going on and on about how F1 does this and F1 doesthat. > Big Freaking Deal! How many ovals does F1 race on? Zero, if my somewhat > feeble American mind remembers properly. NASCAR races on two, let me saythat > again, TWO road courses. And BOTH of them have soft walls at criticalareas > on the track. As soon as you or anyone else comes up with a suggestionfor > change that isn't completely idiotic, all of us moronic NASCAR folks willbe

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> ready to listen. > > > Dave Casey > Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) > www.teamcasey.net > www.lvkc.com > www.buycoolcrap.com >

Actually, you're number three....yeah, I'm concerned about these soft walls when cars slightly touch the wall....if these walls stop the car instantaneously at the wrong angle (and I'm not talking head on), causing the car to bounce back on the track, the damage to the driver could be worse than if he hit a concrete wall head on.....in addition, the car coming back on to the track can cause more accidents... Dave "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9Z8o6.499546$[email hidden]...

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> > "Dave St.Onge" > In a previous post you mention that I can't read....you > can't either > > obviously. It wasn't me talking about the soft walls...it was another > > Dave.... > > > > Dave > There you have it...we'll have Dave and I'll be the 'other' Dave...:) > (and yes, I am concerned about incidental contact that GRABS the car > and produces an immeadiate cessation of forward motion) > - the other dave > >

Agree, except I would switch BTCC and TransAm. Maybe FIA/ALMS and Na$car too (because of Fox). WRT On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:25:58 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:Jx5o6.192$[email hidden]... >> well, you will have Dave StOnge explaining why it doesn't work because it >> will SUCK the car AND the driver and turn their spine into slime or >> something like that (it is a joke, Dave, it is a joke) >> >> It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American >> friends > Friends..??? We Americans don't have friends....we have Customers... >:) >dave henrie >btw in order of preference if all races were shown at the same time, this >is what I would watch.: >CART >F1 >BTCC/ATCC >Nascar >FIA/ALMS >Trans Am >World Superbike/Ama Superbike/FIA 500 Grand Prix bikes >Speedvision World Challenge >(can't include such series as DTM cuz the dang thing doesn't get much air >here) >Unlimited Hydroplanes >Grand American Series >Reno Air RAces >Go Karts >Pinewood Derby >Nascar Trucks/Busch Series >Motorola Cup >Local R/C races >Slot Car races >Hot Wheel Loopdeloops... > > :) My preference is any racing with Wings and slicks...just imagine when >the vintage >F15 and F16 fighters are de-commissioned and we can slap some big tires on >and go round a superspeedway...:) :> :o >dave henrie > > >

Yes didnt Michael Andretti flip about 2000 times in this wreck? hmmm? "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c4Zn6.710$[email hidden]... | And the gravel helped it out...please take the time to refer to incidents | involving Michael Andretti from approx 2 years ago, and Patrick Carpentier | (twice I believe) last season. Your beloved gravel caused Andretti toflip

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| numerous times when he hit it sideways. Carpentier also had a wreck like | that, doing the sideways roll. Lastly, Carpentier could have seriously | injured himself when the gravel trap *launched* him into a tire wall, | flipping him completely over a 10' high fence.... | | Gravel traps ARE NOT safe..... | | Dave

<snipped>

Hello? Hello? Calling Dr Di'mento' Or Dr Irwin Corey!! Hello? Hello? We have a 911 in RAS!! Please come A.S.A.P. as D God Fisher has finally lost it!! Hello? Hello?... Hello? Hello?... Hello? Hello? Phew what a "Cracked Nutt!!" Sorry I couldn't stay quiet anymore!! "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3g_n6.14611$[email hidden]...

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| >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote | > They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell the | blood. | | | "My God we've created a monster!" | | | | | | -- | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> | -- May the Downforce be with you... | -- http://www.ymenard.com/ | -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how | hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. | | |

Dave?? You never saw the "Strapped Down Turbo V12 BullFrog Races" in Swaghollar` NC..? Wow ur missing something.. <g> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qW8o6.499521$[email hidden]... | | "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:Jx5o6.192$[email hidden]... | > well, you will have Dave StOnge explaining why it doesn't work becauseit

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| > will SUCK the car AND the driver and turn their spine into slime or | > something like that (it is a joke, Dave, it is a joke) | > | > It is sad to realize here but SOME (I didn't say ALL) of our American | > friends | Friends..??? We Americans don't have friends....we have Customers... | :) | dave henrie | btw in order of preference if all races were shown at the same time, this | is what I would watch.: | CART | F1 | BTCC/ATCC | Nascar | FIA/ALMS | Trans Am | World Superbike/Ama Superbike/FIA 500 Grand Prix bikes | Speedvision World Challenge | (can't include such series as DTM cuz the dang thing doesn't get much air | here) | Unlimited Hydroplanes | Grand American Series | Reno Air RAces | Go Karts | Pinewood Derby | Nascar Trucks/Busch Series | Motorola Cup | Local R/C races | Slot Car races | Hot Wheel Loopdeloops... | | :) My preference is any racing with Wings and slicks...just imagine

when

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| the vintage | F15 and F16 fighters are de-commissioned and we can slap some big tires on | and go round a superspeedway...:) :> :o | dave henrie | | | |

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WYbo6.20755$[email hidden]... > > Dave?? You never saw the "Strapped Down Turbo V12 BullFrog Races" > in Swaghollar` NC..? Wow ur missing something.. <g> > No but I DID see LAWNMOWER RACES the tube. I sweartoGawd they actually had LAWNMOWER RACES on the telebishion. And not only that, they had Mower-Deck cams and nose cams.....And I should have mentioned the Snowmobile Sno-cross races....yes, I'm hooked... dave henrie

Don't laugh...sometimes they DO show snowmobile races on tv here in Canada...lol Dave "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mxco6.500786$[email hidden]...

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> > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WYbo6.20755$[email hidden]... > > > > Dave?? You never saw the "Strapped Down Turbo V12 BullFrog Races" > > in Swaghollar` NC..? Wow ur missing something.. <g> > > > No but I DID see LAWNMOWER RACES the tube. I sweartoGawd they > actually had LAWNMOWER RACES on the telebishion. And not only that, > they had Mower-Deck cams and nose cams.....And I should have mentioned > the Snowmobile Sno-cross races....yes, I'm hooked... > dave henrie > >

OMG.. I have been seeing these things weekly on SpeedVision! Now folks laugh at us racing on a puter!! Damn they should see those guyz and yes galz too!! Did you see the drags yet?? Wow.. hahahaha $00.02 from me.. <g> Cheers Thom_j. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mxco6.500786$[email hidden]...

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| | "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:WYbo6.20755$[email hidden]... | > | > Dave?? You never saw the "Strapped Down Turbo V12 BullFrog Races" | > in Swaghollar` NC..? Wow ur missing something.. <g> | > | No but I DID see LAWNMOWER RACES the tube. I sweartoGawd they | actually had LAWNMOWER RACES on the telebishion. And not only that, | they had Mower-Deck cams and nose cams.....And I should have mentioned | the Snowmobile Sno-cross races....yes, I'm hooked... | dave henrie | |

I've seen'em Dave St O'... I also raced on ice with a motorcycle up in Canada when I was young, dumb & full of "oops I cant say that here" Sorry...lol <g. "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%5eo6.963$[email hidden]...

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| Don't laugh...sometimes they DO show snowmobile races on tv here in | Canada...lol | | Dave | | | "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:mxco6.500786$[email hidden]... | > | > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:WYbo6.20755$[email hidden]... | > > | > > Dave?? You never saw the "Strapped Down Turbo V12 BullFrog Races" | > > in Swaghollar` NC..? Wow ur missing something.. <g> | > > | > No but I DID see LAWNMOWER RACES the tube. I sweartoGawd they | > actually had LAWNMOWER RACES on the telebishion. And not only that, | > they had Mower-Deck cams and nose cams.....And I should have mentioned | > the Snowmobile Sno-cross races....yes, I'm hooked... | > dave henrie | > | > | |

>"Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote > Don't laugh...sometimes they DO show snowmobile races on tv here in > Canada...lol I raced snowmobiles twice here in Qu�bec, it's harder then you think. It's also VERY dangerous. I don't see much difference between that and supercross. I don't see why people are surprised it exists. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

PLONK d.a. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:feZn6.139158$[email hidden]... > They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell the blood. > > David G Fisher > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bsYn6.141$%[email hidden]... > > did it NEVER happen in nascar history someone gets pushed, goes on the > grass > > on the inside and sameshe the INSIDE all or even more "funny" comes back > on > > the track while spinning ang gets hits by another guy coming ? > > > > NEVER EVER ? > > > > of course you can't put gravel on the OUTSIDE of your circus (in terms of > > roman circus, like the circus maximus in Rome where they also had "car" > > races") but at least on the inside, even if it avoids ONE big dangerous > > crash, isn't it enough ? > > > >

Did you watch the F1 race tonight?? Dave "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:feZn6.139158$[email hidden]... > They want the fans up close to the entire track so they can smell theblood.

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> > David G Fisher > > > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bsYn6.141$%[email hidden]... > > did it NEVER happen in nascar history someone gets pushed, goes on the > grass > > on the inside and sameshe the INSIDE all or even more "funny" comes back > on > > the track while spinning ang gets hits by another guy coming ? > > > > NEVER EVER ? > > > > of course you can't put gravel on the OUTSIDE of your circus (in terms

of > > roman circus, like the circus maximus in Rome where they also had "car" > > races") but at least on the inside, even if it avoids ONE big dangerous > > crash, isn't it enough ? > > > >

In article <ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]>, "Txl" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice session >? > >1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the wall, >that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake >too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see >well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing >it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by air >fences and tires anyway. > >I hope the nascar official have been looking at this, you are never too old >to learn and improve things around you.

Ok, serious question - how would you implement gravel traps on an oval? Pesonally, I think gravel traps induce the flipping(in open wheel cars, anyway). But, I'm interested in your take on it... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I have seen them used and cleanup time is horrendous. They do tend to cause a car to jump upwards which may require a redesign of the catch-fences too. -- Regards, Ed Medlin [email hidden] "Dave St.Onge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7D9o6.270$[email hidden]... > Actually, you're number three....yeah, I'm concerned about these soft walls > when cars slightly touch the wall....if these walls stop the car > instantaneously at the wrong angle (and I'm not talking head on), causing > the car to bounce back on the track, the damage to the driver could be worse > than if he hit a concrete wall head on.....in addition, the car coming back > on to the track can cause more accidents... > > Dave > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9Z8o6.499546$[email hidden]... > > > > "Dave St.Onge" > In a previous post you mention that I can't read....you > > can't either > > > obviously. It wasn't me talking about the soft walls...it was another > > > Dave.... > > > > > > Dave > > There you have it...we'll have Dave and I'll be the 'other' Dave...:) > > (and yes, I am concerned about incidental contact that GRABS the car > > and produces an immeadiate cessation of forward motion) > > - the other dave > > > > > >

On 05 Mar 2001 17:57:13 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote wonderful things about sparkplugs:

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>In article <ITMn6.7420$[email hidden]>, "Txl" <[email hidden]> >writes: > >>Did anybody see the images of Scumi's crash in the 1st free practice session >>? >> >>1 or 2 barrel rolls in the gravel trap, the car didn't even touch the wall, >>that's what I call great passive safety, you can go off because you brake >>too late and lose the car, flip over the curb, make 1 or 2 (I didn't see >>well) rolls in the air, and when the car comes down, the gravel is slowing >>it, and preventing the painful crash in the wall, which is protected by air >>fences and tires anyway.

The thing here is that he barrel rolls. Each time he hits the ground he slows down. Thus saving any injury. If you hit a brick wall at 180 and your seat belt doesn't work and your steering wheel lodges itself in your forehead bad things will come of that experience. Few safety devices will save your life if you mess with the safety equipment. Further a 3500 lbs car will do severe damage to the things it hits. Soft walls are probably not the answer here. F1 cars are lighter and self destruct by design thus reducing the damage inflicted on the drivers. NASCAR builds small tanks that can run w/o most of their parts. However. more of the force of an accident is placed into the human body. Of course a gravel pit on an Oval is just silly. -- Member of the Nondeterministic Football League