GPL: solid 36fps is *not* optional if you want to be fast or consistent

Moving from an AGP V3 to a PCI V5 this week has caused me a little GPL grief. Glide is definitely slower than on the V3, and fsaa is definitely out of the question. Fortunately in D3D it's almost as fast as the V3 in glide. The good news is that x2fsaa is well worth having "for free", but I've had to drop from my preferred 1280x1024 on the V3 to 1024x768 (even without fsaa) to ensure the frame rate stays pretty solid. Hardly the end of the world :-) But in all the messing about I've done in recent days I've realised again how reliant what little skill I've got is upon that solid 36fps. If you see any appreciable frame rate drop (and it's always obvious when it drops more than 1 or 2 fps) then you *are* losing a little control which it's all too easy to take for granted at 36. So for anyone struggling with less than optimal hardware (you listening Eldred? :-) there *is* hope. Some hope anyway. Well, a little... maybe ;-) Andrew McP

My question is why moving from AGP to PCI? and not upgrading to a faster AGP card? -- Oliver "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Moving from an AGP V3 to a PCI V5 this week has caused me a little GPL > grief. Glide is definitely slower than on the V3, and fsaa is definitely > out of the question. Fortunately in D3D it's almost as fast as the V3 in > glide. The good news is that x2fsaa is well worth having "for free", but > I've had to drop from my preferred 1280x1024 on the V3 to 1024x768 (even > without fsaa) to ensure the frame rate stays pretty solid. Hardly the end > of the world :-) > > But in all the messing about I've done in recent days I've realised again > how reliant what little skill I've got is upon that solid 36fps. If you > see any appreciable frame rate drop (and it's always obvious when it drops > more than 1 or 2 fps) then you *are* losing a little control which it's > all too easy to take for granted at 36. > > So for anyone struggling with less than optimal hardware (you listening > Eldred? :-) there *is* hope. Some hope anyway. Well, a little... maybe ;-) > > Andrew McP

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) writes:

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>But in all the messing about I've done in recent days I've realised again >how reliant what little skill I've got is upon that solid 36fps. If you >see any appreciable frame rate drop (and it's always obvious when it drops >more than 1 or 2 fps) then you *are* losing a little control which it's >all too easy to take for granted at 36. > >So for anyone struggling with less than optimal hardware (you listening >Eldred? :-) there *is* hope. Some hope anyway. Well, a little... maybe ;-) > >Andrew McP

Well, it'll be a while... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

make sure you have the newest available drivers..should be dated mid November. And if you feel that glide is running slower, try using the single chip option rather than the "fastest" setting. good luck dave henrie "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Moving from an AGP V3 to a PCI V5 this week has caused me a little GPL > grief. Glide is definitely slower than on the V3, and fsaa is definitely > out of the question. Fortunately in D3D it's almost as fast as the V3 in > glide. The good news is that x2fsaa is well worth having "for free", but > I've had to drop from my preferred 1280x1024 on the V3 to 1024x768 (even > without fsaa) to ensure the frame rate stays pretty solid. Hardly the end > of the world :-) > > But in all the messing about I've done in recent days I've realised again > how reliant what little skill I've got is upon that solid 36fps. If you > see any appreciable frame rate drop (and it's always obvious when it drops > more than 1 or 2 fps) then you *are* losing a little control which it's > all too easy to take for granted at 36. > > So for anyone struggling with less than optimal hardware (you listening > Eldred? :-) there *is* hope. Some hope anyway. Well, a little... maybe ;-) > > Andrew McP

> But in all the messing about I've done in recent days I've realised again > how reliant what little skill I've got is upon that solid 36fps. If you > see any appreciable frame rate drop (and it's always obvious when it drops > more than 1 or 2 fps) then you *are* losing a little control which it's > all too easy to take for granted at 36. You really don't need 36 fps to have a good time with GPL. You can even develop a decent handicap without it. My (ancient) Pentium 200Mhz MMX machine manages frame rates in the mid-20s, usually. What you DO need is practice time. After a year or so of occasional practice sessions I've managed to get my handicap down to 26. More importantly, I can race reasonably competitively mid-pack with the AI. If only I had a decent connection I could way too much time racing on-line. At least this way I stay married :o) Rich Worden

> > You really don't need 36 fps to have a good time with GPL. You can > even develop a decent handicap without it. My (ancient) Pentium 200MhzMMX

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> machine manages frame rates in the mid-20s, usually. What you DO need > is practice time. After a year or so of occasional practice sessions I've > managed to get my handicap down to 26. More importantly, I can race > reasonably competitively mid-pack with the AI. If only I had a decent > connection I could way too much time racing on-line. At least this way > I stay married :o) > > Rich Worden

But your low FPS would also affect(effect?) the other online drivers. For everyone else's sake, stay offline until you can tweek or improve your current system to get a stable 36fps. Everybit of dropped information has to be guessed at by the server, which will result in your car hopping all over the track as the server attempts to keep track of your car without a full set of data. BTW,,,,good job with your handicap. You have done well. dave henrie

The force is strong with this one Obi..... Stay away from VROC... don't need another guy to beat me at every track ;) Mikkel

i dont get many complaints about warp, im on a p200 as well....guess its because im ahead of every one :P -gpl ranked pez Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hokd6.333485$[email hidden]... > > > > You really don't need 36 fps to have a good time with GPL. You can > > even develop a decent handicap without it. My (ancient) Pentium 200Mhz > MMX > > machine manages frame rates in the mid-20s, usually. What you DO need > > is practice time. After a year or so of occasional practice sessionsI've

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> > managed to get my handicap down to 26. More importantly, I can race > > reasonably competitively mid-pack with the AI. If only I had a decent > > connection I could way too much time racing on-line. At least this way > > I stay married :o) > > > > Rich Worden > But your low FPS would also affect(effect?) the other online drivers.

For > everyone else's sake, stay offline until you can tweek or improve your > current system to get a stable 36fps. Everybit of dropped information has > to be > guessed at by the server, which will result in your car hopping all overthe > track as the server attempts to keep track of your car without a full setof > data. > BTW,,,,good job with your handicap. You have done well. > dave henrie >

[email hidden] (Slick) wrote: > why moving from AGP to PCI? and not > upgrading to a faster AGP card? V5's were reduced to less than half price in UK stores. The AGP cards ran out very quickly, so I didn't have a choice. Overall it looks like the PCI V5 is a little slower than the V3 in some cases, but I can get x2 FSAA "for free", sometimes x4. And whatever people might say, FSAA is something you don't want to lose once you've seen it! > handicap down to 26 <tips hat> Well done, that's very impressive with a variable fps! Andrew McP

[email hidden] (Richard Worden) wrote: > You really don't need 36 fps to have a good time with GPL. Need? No. But once you've seen solid 36 you will understand *exactly* what I mean :-) It really is a different sim. Andrew McP

I see... -- Oliver "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Slick) wrote: > > > why moving from AGP to PCI? and not > > upgrading to a faster AGP card? > > V5's were reduced to less than half price in UK stores. The AGP cards ran > out very quickly, so I didn't have a choice. Overall it looks like the PCI > V5 is a little slower than the V3 in some cases, but I can get x2 FSAA > "for free", sometimes x4. And whatever people might say, FSAA is something > you don't want to lose once you've seen it! > > > handicap down to 26 > > <tips hat> Well done, that's very impressive with a variable fps! > > Andrew McP >

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>> why moving from AGP to PCI? and not >> upgrading to a faster AGP card? > >V5's were reduced to less than half price in UK stores. The AGP cards ran >out very quickly, so I didn't have a choice. Overall it looks like the PCI >V5 is a little slower than the V3 in some cases, but I can get x2 FSAA >"for free", sometimes x4. And whatever people might say, FSAA is something >you don't want to lose once you've seen it! > >> handicap down to 26 > ><tips hat> Well done, that's very impressive with a variable fps!

I'll second that! I was running a AMD K6-2/350 that had some problems. With that I was able to get 36fps most all the time with low res and just a couple three graphics turned on. Even then the frame rate varied through each lap and I thought I was doing very good with this system. I just upgraded to a 1G T-Bird with some extras and get a flat 36fps, at very high res, with all graphics on, at high detail, and with many add-on graphics. WOW what a difference!! I didn't realize this till now but I used to tip-toe through the turns just because the frame rate varied. Now with no frame rate problems I'm able to do things I could only dream about before. When I first picked up GPL in 98 I had a P-150 and got 15fps at the Glen in training mode. The fps was bad but it was stable at 15. So, the more stable the frame rate the better everything runs. The higher the frame rate with stability is a whole new world.