Hi,
My trusty red Momo wheel is starting to get slightly long in the tooth,
though it has lasted 10 times as many hours as any other I've had. I'm
really after a high quality, force feedback wheel, and the Ball Racing Speed
7 seems to be the only potential wheel out there. However, I'm disconcerted
by the fact that it hasn't been released yet, though it was stated to be in
"advanced design" back in 2003.
I'm after some advice on whether to keep using my Momo until the Speed 7 FF
is released, or whether there is anything else in the pipeline? I'm aware of
the 900 degree logitech PS2/PC wheel, but would really prefer something that
is going to last for a few years of regular use/abuse.
Any suggestions much appreciated.
Regards,
Tim
I believe it will be released simultaneously with Racing Legends (World
Sports Cars). I'm sure it will be on display in the Ball Racing/ West
Brothers booth at E3. Which happens to be, oh, two weeks away. And we
all know that everything worth having is always two weeks away.
Yes, that sounds about right, funny how vapourware can be both hardware and
software.
--
Andi.
Remove only one zero to reply
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>I believe it will be released simultaneously with Racing Legends (World
> Sports Cars). I'm sure it will be on display in the Ball Racing/ West
> Brothers booth at E3. Which happens to be, oh, two weeks away. And we
> all know that everything worth having is always two weeks away.
>
Don't worry, you don't have long to wait.
According to Tim Ball, Managing Director of BRD, the wheel will be
launched in June.
Shish wrote:
> Don't worry, you don't have long to wait.
>
> According to Tim Ball, Managing Director of BRD, the wheel will be
> launched in June.
> yeah, but which june?
He he, fair enough.
I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this
reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though...
"Dear Shish
Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly
encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism.
Regarding your point about the website. We are in the process of
creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up
to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of
to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our
communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide
with the launch of the new steering.
On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able
to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the
moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are
the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are
investigating some alternative options.
We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch.
Best regards
Simon Ball
Managing Director"
Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and no
Speed 7 wheel.
From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that Ball
Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end product
range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing growth in the
SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become very niche, and now
no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream software vendors.
Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped
production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due to
lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was quite
cheap compared to the high end products available at the time.
It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm hoping
that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback product that
fills the gap between the cheap gaming wheels designed for consoles, and the
aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be beautifully engineered, but
don't support FF and require technical skills to re-wire to provide
compatibilty with some platforms.
In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost too
soon.
Tim
"Shish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (29 lines)
> He he, fair enough. > > I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this > reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though... > > "Dear Shish > > Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly > encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism. > > Regarding your point about the website. We are in the process of > creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up > to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of > to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our > communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide > with the launch of the new steering. > > On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able > to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the > moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are > the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are > investigating some alternative options. > > We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch. > > Best regards > Simon Ball > Managing Director" >As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's
strangle-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which ANYTHING
that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback whether similar
or not to immersions technology is patent infringement. Add to that absurd
licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback
Just another case of the lawyers fucking the consumer in the ass....
Mitch
"Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:883xe.59959$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (63 lines)
> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and no > Speed 7 wheel. > > From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that > Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end > product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing > growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become very > niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream > software vendors. > > Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped > production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due to > lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was quite > cheap compared to the high end products available at the time. > > It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm hoping > that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback product that > fills the gap between the cheap gaming wheels designed for consoles, and > the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be beautifully engineered, > but don't support FF and require technical skills to re-wire to provide > compatibilty with some platforms. > > In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost > too soon. > > Tim > > > > > "Shish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> He he, fair enough. >> >> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this >> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though... >> >> "Dear Shish >> >> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly >> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism. >> >> Regarding your point about the website. We are in the process of >> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up >> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of >> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our >> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide >> with the launch of the new steering. >> >> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able >> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the >> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are >> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are >> investigating some alternative options. >> >> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch. >> >> Best regards >> Simon Ball >> Managing Director" >> > >I'm not familiar with Immerision's licencing model, but surely this would be
more of a problem for cheap wheels than expensive units?
As it is possible to buy a FF wheel for less than $50, then the FF licencing
component of that wheel must be small. Here we are talking anything from
$200 to $1000+ for the BRD units, so surely licencing FF shouldn't be a
problem. Even if the licencing is based on a percentage of the entire unit
cost, this shouldn't matter for high end wheels, as by definition this end
of the market isn't so price sensitive, so even another $50 wouldn't be a
major problem.
Tim
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nw5xe.2314$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (78 lines)
> As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's > strangle-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which > ANYTHING that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback > whether similar or not to immersions technology is patent infringement. > Add to that absurd licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback > > Just another case of the lawyers fucking the consumer in the ass.... > > Mitch > > > "Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:883xe.59959$[email hidden]... >> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and no >> Speed 7 wheel. >> >> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that >> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end >> product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing >> growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become very >> niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream >> software vendors. >> >> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped >> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due >> to lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was >> quite cheap compared to the high end products available at the time. >> >> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm hoping >> that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback product that >> fills the gap between the cheap gaming wheels designed for consoles, and >> the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be beautifully engineered, >> but don't support FF and require technical skills to re-wire to provide >> compatibilty with some platforms. >> >> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost >> too soon. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> "Shish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> He he, fair enough. >>> >>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this >>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though... >>> >>> "Dear Shish >>> >>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly >>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism. >>> >>> Regarding your point about the website. We are in the process of >>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up >>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of >>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our >>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide >>> with the launch of the new steering. >>> >>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able >>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the >>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are >>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are >>> investigating some alternative options. >>> >>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Simon Ball >>> Managing Director" >>> >> >> > >Very true but the current FF technology isnt all that great and they have
zero intention of making a better consumer FF. Right now its basically FF
effects without being tied to software. Without ANY competition why should
they ever improve it? Weve been on V2.0 for what 4 years now? It took
what, less than a year to go from 1.0 to 2.0 when they had competition.
IIRC MS had its own FF tech but my memories are vague.
Immersion isnt going to do anything to fragment their monopolistic market or
take away from their commercial products, which from what Im told are pretty
good but prohibitively expensive..
Mitch
"Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2Y9xe.60163$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (98 lines)
> I'm not familiar with Immerision's licencing model, but surely this would > be more of a problem for cheap wheels than expensive units? > > As it is possible to buy a FF wheel for less than $50, then the FF > licencing component of that wheel must be small. Here we are talking > anything from $200 to $1000+ for the BRD units, so surely licencing FF > shouldn't be a problem. Even if the licencing is based on a percentage of > the entire unit cost, this shouldn't matter for high end wheels, as by > definition this end of the market isn't so price sensitive, so even > another $50 wouldn't be a major problem. > > > Tim > > > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nw5xe.2314$[email hidden]... >> As Ive mentioned here on many occasions the main problem is Immersion's >> strangle-hold on the entire FF market and the vague patent in which >> ANYTHING that is connected to a PC and has any kind of Force Feedback >> whether similar or not to immersions technology is patent infringement. >> Add to that absurd licensing and we have a dead end for Force Feedback >> >> Just another case of the lawyers fucking the consumer in the ass.... >> >> Mitch >> >> >> "Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:883xe.59959$[email hidden]... >>> Well, its the first of July, and no new web site appeared in June, and >>> no Speed 7 wheel. >>> >>> From various postings that I've seen around the net, I understand that >>> Ball Racing may have got "cold feet" about sticking with a very high end >>> product range. Their business case 3 years was based on a continuing >>> growth in the SIM racing market, but as we are aware, we have become >>> very niche, and now no serious SIMs are being offered by the mainstream >>> software vendors. >>> >>> Another way to look at things is to consider that Logitech dropped >>> production of the Momo Force leather wheel with steel ball-bearings due >>> to lack of demand because it was "too expensive", even though it was >>> quite cheap compared to the high end products available at the time. >>> >>> It might just be time to re-invent the wheel, quite literally. I'm >>> hoping that a vendor will be able to come up with a Force Feedback >>> product that fills the gap between the cheap gaming wheels designed for >>> consoles, and the aging crop of "high end" wheels that might be >>> beautifully engineered, but don't support FF and require technical >>> skills to re-wire to provide compatibilty with some platforms. >>> >>> In the meantime, I'm hoping that my momo force doesn't give up the ghost >>> too soon. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Shish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>> news:[email hidden]... >>>> He he, fair enough. >>>> >>>> I sent some feedback on my new Speed7 pedals to them, and got this >>>> reply, thats all I know... Hope its this June, though... >>>> >>>> "Dear Shish >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for taking the time to write, it is certainly >>>> encouraging to have positive feedback and constructive critisism. >>>> >>>> Regarding your point about the website. We are in the process of >>>> creating a completely new site that will be fully managed and kept up >>>> to date. This is an area that we have not been able to keep on top of >>>> to date but we now have a new member of staff who will manage all our >>>> communications. The new website is due to go up in June, to coincide >>>> with the launch of the new steering. >>>> >>>> On the matter of the new steering, we are hoping that we will be able >>>> to offer a lower cost alternative and we are investigating this at the >>>> moment. The reality is that it is the motor and electronics that are >>>> the expensive bits rather than the carbon fibre! As I say, we are >>>> investigating some alternative options. >>>> >>>> We will keep you posted on developments and with details of the launch. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Simon Ball >>>> Managing Director" >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >ahh - la capisco!
So you weren't just complaining about the cost of the licencing, but about
the contstraints within the method of patent application for consumer FF. In
other words, if I understand correctly you were saying that if BRD or
anyone else comes along with a better (more realistic) method of
implementing FF, Immersion will just turn around and say "No go, Joe", even
if the manufacturer were happy to pay a licence to Immersion for any form of
FF.
Yep, it would be said if innovation were curtailed by the very broad
application of patent, where there is no incentive for Immersion to update
their FF methods/algorthims, etc, whilst forcing any application of FF to
not only licence Immersion technology, but use current Immersion standards.
There is something deeply disturbing in general about this concept of using
a broad patent brush to stifle innovation. I'm going to do a bit of research
on this to see what IP (Intellectual Property) legal experts have to say on
the matter.
Cheers,
Tim
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:pifxe.1623$[email hidden]...
