Oh bugger!

So which bright spark decided that swapping engines was a good idea then? For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field...I suppose there will be wings,turbos and ground effect next....swiftly followed by traction control....oh hang on.....isn't that GP3? I propose a new political movement to be called "Keep the bloody engine in the right car" Honestly....you give people a terrific game and someone has to find a way to screw it up for everyone else....the first time someone goes past me at Monza in a Cooper Cosworth at 240mph, I'm going home and sulking in the pits.

`>"Richie" <[email hidden]> wrote > For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field... We see that when in a pickup race we have a bunch of Loti against BRM's, Coopers and Hondas at Monza. >I suppose there will be wings,turbos and ground effect next.... If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-)" but drowned out by the accusations of "Cheater" running rampant throughout the community... A sad day for GPL IMO. Regards, Schumi "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VEcY5.61560$[email hidden]...

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> `>"Richie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field... > > We see that when in a pickup race we have a bunch of Loti against BRM's, > Coopers and Hondas at Monza. > > > >I suppose there will be wings,turbos and ground effect next.... > > If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-) > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>"Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote > "If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-)" > > but drowned out by the accusations of "Cheater" running rampant throughout > the community... Why? Cheating is extremely easy in GPL. Anybody who wanted to cheat before has already done it. So why is this thing suddenly new? Are normal GPL racers that naive? Man, some GPL zealots running like chickens-with-no-head screaming "It's the end of the world!!!" -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Cheating in GPL is 'Very' hard this is the first so called cheat but as it has little real advantage for the fast cars and is easy to spot so it's not much of a cheat. Alex Cameron "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:h6eY5.61081$i%[email hidden]... > >"Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote > > "If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-)" > > > > but drowned out by the accusations of "Cheater" running rampantthroughout > > the community... > > > Why? Cheating is extremely easy in GPL. Anybody who wanted to cheatbefore > has already done it. So why is this thing suddenly new? Are normal GPL > racers that naive? > > Man, some GPL zealots running like chickens-with-no-head screaming "It'sthe

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> end of the world!!!" > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

Richie wrote:

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> > So which bright spark decided that swapping engines was a good idea then? > For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field...I suppose there > will be wings,turbos and ground effect next....swiftly followed by traction > control....oh hang on.....isn't that GP3? > I propose a new political movement to be called "Keep the bloody engine in > the right car" > Honestly....you give people a terrific game and someone has to find a way to > screw it up for everyone else....the first time someone goes past me at > Monza in a Cooper Cosworth at 240mph, I'm going home and sulking in the > pits.

Well, there's no need to worry about me doing that my friend, those that has seen me race in GPL would never ever even consider the possibilities of me cheating, although if there was a tire grip path to race with modern slicks I might get an advantage, but more HP won't help me :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting are the only true sports...all others are games." --Ernest Hemingway--

I suppose I should explain a bit more deeply my dislike for this editor... or more particularly the way it was released. Don Scurlock came over to my house on Molson Indy (I live 200 yards from the track) and we had a really long talk about "responsible editor releases" in regards to the entire game community as a whole. At the time Don was a bit sckeptical about my position on these editors that are popping up all over the place. But I gave him an example of what happened in MGPRS2 and the manner in which these editors can STILL reach the public without damaging the integrity of the community as a whole. Here is what happened in MGPRS2. I was running a fairly sizeable league at the time Rene Smits was releasing his "Power Editor" for the cars. Upon hearing the rumour I immediately e-mailed him, and asked for him to take a few things under consideration when designing and releasing the editor: 1. If one was to create an editor that would allow the changing of power values without consideration... it would destroy the integrity of the community with "he must be cheating" sighs everytime someone turned a good lap. I therefor asked him to make a single restriction on that editor that would basically maintain the integrity of the league AND the community as a whole: Please have a CAP on the power. Or better yet.... simply allow the lower powered cars the ability to achieve the power of the default power of the highest car. In the end... Rene seemed to take the consideration under advisement... and he did the latter. Only allowed the lower powered cars to reach the power of the Williams default power. Not only did it maintain the integrity of the community.... but actually made a beneficial impact on theleague as well... because now people could race in lowered cars on an even playing field. So now this brings me back to the GPL Engine Editor. From what I can gather.... NO consultation with anyone was undertaken regarding the safeguard of the GPL Community's integrity. In other words... set parameters... or initiate a mechanism that would allow detection of the useage by other people or the hotlaps, etc. For this reason alone I find this editor to be a black mark on the community. I can remember talking with Alisson regarding a track editor someone made... that would allow you to make your own tracks..... but also allow you to manipulate the current tracks,. It was not released (or maybe it has now)... until they could ENSURE that the editor was for the purpose of creating a new track/track-file that was editable in itself as a program specific extension working file..... but not allow the editor to manipulate end-product (ready for distribution). Meaning... make your tracks all ya want.... but you cannot edit the ones already distributed (they remain intact). My hats off to this... THAT is the way you release an editor whilst keeping the integrity of the community intact. In closing... the editor that is causing all the latest buzz IS a pretty cool tool... that I am sure many will have fun with. It is simply the manner that is was released and the features it lacks that I have a problem with. Not as a GPLer.... but as a person who loves the entire Sim Racing community.... and someone who is getting a bit tired of watching games go down the drain because some dimwit who happens to know how to code... didn't take the overall look at the impact on the community. I have seen this plague ruin more than a few games and online-friendships in my time. Regards, Schumi "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:h6eY5.61081$i%[email hidden]... > >"Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote > > "If somebody creates this for GPL he will be praised high ;-)" > > > > but drowned out by the accusations of "Cheater" running rampantthroughout > > the community... > > > Why? Cheating is extremely easy in GPL. Anybody who wanted to cheatbefore > has already done it. So why is this thing suddenly new? Are normal GPL > racers that naive? > > Man, some GPL zealots running like chickens-with-no-head screaming "It'sthe

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> end of the world!!!" > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>"Geordie Boot Boy" <[email hidden]> wrote > Cheating in GPL is 'Very' hard this is the first so called cheat but as it > has little real advantage for the fast cars and is easy to spot so it'snot > much of a cheat. No, it's not "very" hard. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Not as a GPLer.... but as a person who loves the entire Sim Racing > community.... and someone who is getting a bit tired of watchinggames go > down the drain because some dimwit who happens to know how to code...didn't

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> take the overall look at the impact on the community. I have seen this > plague ruin more than a few games and online-friendships in my time. > > Regards, > > Schumi >

I'm not a GPL disciple but yes, this is true for all games. I remember more than once having to do battle with people on forums who made a post asking for a performance editing utility. Its terrible! The weird thing is, in games like ISI makes, the open editing architecture not only makes it easy to alter performance but it ALSO makes it easy for people to make utilities that check submitted times (in the case of offline competitions) with an unaltered/stock file. So it works both ways in some cases. DTR was originally released with open architecture too, but complaints made them get rid of it in the first patch. I hate to see 'kid stuff' mess up a perfectly good game. mr Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Ok how can you cheat in an online race then? Alex Cameron "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T8fY5.61126$i%[email hidden]... > >"Geordie Boot Boy" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Cheating in GPL is 'Very' hard this is the first so called cheat but asit

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> > has little real advantage for the fast cars and is easy to spot so it's > not > > much of a cheat. > > No, it's not "very" hard. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>"Geordie Boot Boy" <[email hidden]> wrote > Ok how can you cheat in an online race then? Why do you want to know? You just need to get a clue about the game engine from Papyrus and some track editing skills. But of course we don't do this, GPL is a Gentlemen's sport. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 01:57:43 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Geordie Boot Boy" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Ok how can you cheat in an online race then? > >Why do you want to know? You just need to get a clue about the game engine >from Papyrus and some track editing skills. > >But of course we don't do this, GPL is a Gentlemen's sport.

You need to understand something about the engine and must have track editing knowledge. I consider that as 'very' hard.. Andre

>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > You need to understand something about the engine and must have track > editing knowledge. > I consider that as 'very' hard.. It's a term that could be fought. The knowledge is out there, on the Internet even! There is some sites with almost complete file structure, and TRK/3DO utilities, so it's possible if somebody has some time to waste. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 02:29:09 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote >> You need to understand something about the engine and must have track >> editing knowledge. >> I consider that as 'very' hard.. > >It's a term that could be fought. The knowledge is out there, on the >Internet even! There is some sites with almost complete file structure, and >TRK/3DO utilities, so it's possible if somebody has some time to waste.

I believe the difference between having available knowledge and having a complete, easy-to-use program is a tremendous one. Hence, all these idiots trying to probe my computer for the SubSeven trojan every day. Martin Long Live Nigel Mansell!

well I'm glad to see my comments have provoked a sensible debate...I love racing GPL and love Vroc......its easily the best combination of things to do for fun on the net IMHO. If people wish to cheat then so be it...I'm not ever going to be as fast as Huttu but I'm not that slow that I feel the need for more Horsepower...I just get a bit narked when someone feels they can spoil my enjoyment without asking me! If there had been a debate about whether we as a community wanted this facility then perhaps that would have been a more reponsible approach. To just release the thing because it can be done is saddening. I would love to race with wings and ground effect and turbos with the fantastic physics of GPL, but thats got to be another game. I would buy it tomorrow if Dave Kaemmer fancied producing it. But i shall remain a purist when it comes to GPL and dont give a toss if the engine swappers are faster than me. Huttu is faster than me....Eldred isnt....thats life:) "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Richie wrote: > > > > So which bright spark decided that swapping engines was a good ideathen? > > For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field...I supposethere > > will be wings,turbos and ground effect next....swiftly followed bytraction > > control....oh hang on.....isn't that GP3? > > I propose a new political movement to be called "Keep the bloody enginein > > the right car" > > Honestly....you give people a terrific game and someone has to find away to

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> > screw it up for everyone else....the first time someone goes past me at > > Monza in a Cooper Cosworth at 240mph, I'm going home and sulking in the > > pits. > > Well, there's no need to worry about me doing that my friend, those that > has seen me race in GPL would never ever even consider the possibilities > of me cheating, although if there was a tire grip path to race with > modern slicks I might get an advantage, but more HP won't help me :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "Mountain climbing, auto racing and bullfighting > are the only true sports...all others are games." > --Ernest Hemingway--

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:22:45 -0800, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Don Scurlock came over to my house on Molson Indy (I live 200 yards from the >track) and we had a really long talk about "responsible editor releases" in >regards to the entire game community as a whole. Some people just have "no life" Thanks, James Wohlever [email hidden]

Richie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vtcY5.4885$[email hidden]... > So which bright spark decided that swapping engines was a good idea then?I don't know but I'm very greatful he gave us all teh abilty to do it and not just some "chosen friends". Just because we don't know about it doesn't mean its not there, this isn't the only hack done on GPL IMO. > For me the best thing about GPL is the even playing field...I supposethere > will be wings,turbos and ground effect next....swiftly followed bytraction > control....oh hang on.....isn't that GP3? Stop acting like such a twat, I'm sure your very intelligent! How is everything "level" in GPL? Either everyone learns to drive a lotus (both quickly and reliably, very diffeicult) or stick themselves in a BRM to lap 5 seconds slower thanhe field.. level? > I propose a new political movement to be called "Keep the bloody engine in > the right car" LOL! > Honestly....you give people a terrific game and someone has to find a wayto > screw it up for everyone else....the first time someone goes past me at > Monza in a Cooper Cosworth at 240mph, I'm going home and sulking in the > pits. Why, get your own C.C. and alls fair.

In article <P%nY5.6179$[email hidden]>, "Richie" <[email hidden]> writes: >But i shall >remain a purist when it comes to GPL and dont give a toss if the engine >swappers are faster than me. Huttu is faster than me....Eldred isnt....thats >life:) Damn Richie, that's COLD... Uh...how much faster ARE you, anyway? <plots feverishly...> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +40.48 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:22:45 -0800, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote: Blah, blah..... >For this reason alone I find this editor to be a black mark on the >community. Your entitled to you opinion, here is mine... > >I can remember talking with Alisson regarding a track editor someone made... >that would allow you to make your own tracks..... but also allow you to This is the important part. You are stating the you are AWARE of a working track editor that has been withheld from your beloved "GPL community" due to you and some other hard working GPL enthusiasts who are acting in a dictatorial fashion. The creator of any piece of software is entitled to do what they want with their software, however creating such tool and then withholding it for petty reasons is not very community minded but it is THEIR choice. Conversely, the creator of this software does not have to ask for your, mine or anyone's approval before releasing it. For you appoint yourself as the moral conscience of the GPL community is downright selfish. GPL is not and never will be a piece of software that will encourage, entice or entertain the element of society that likes to cheat. Even an XYZ chassis with an ABC engine will still be more challenging than your average cheating inclined youth will tolerate. GPL is well past it's use by date in terms of attracting new gamers from the shop shelves, people will continue to migrate from lesser simulators once they have been bitten by the bug but the vast majority of these people and current drivers are very, very unlikely to be attracted to the idea of cheating to fool themselves or their peers. Your attitude along with many of the posts vehemently proclaiming the end of GPL due to the release of this patch is amazingly shortsighted. GPL is one of the very few simulators over the years that has managed to retain and develop it's following. Part of the success has been due to the great work done by many to develop new tracks, cockpits, graphics and various utilities . There are many people actively involved trying to ensure that GPL remains as addictive and enjoyable as possible in these days of endless Nascar, NFS, TOCA clones. Yet so many people are concerned only with their self interest and importance. We all know who the quick drivers are, credibility is not built solely on winning one online race or suddenly being in the top ten in GPLRank. Who knows what other projects the designer of this tool has on the go, however all this bitching and moaning like a spoilt 10 year old may put an end to that. Remember GPal, who knows what we have lost due to the hounding and moaning from self interested people who would not just accept that this whole deal is supposed to be enjoyable for both the users and the coders.

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>manipulate the current tracks,. It was not released (or maybe it has now)... >until they could ENSURE that the editor was for the purpose of creating a >new track/track-file that was editable in itself as a program specific >extension working file..... but not allow the editor to manipulate >end-product (ready for distribution). > >Meaning... make your tracks all ya want.... but you cannot edit the ones >already distributed (they remain intact). My hats off to this... THAT is the >way you release an editor whilst keeping the integrity of the community >intact.

When can I download this politically correct track editor?? > >In closing... the editor that is causing all the latest buzz IS a pretty >cool tool... that I am sure many will have fun with. Bingo. It is simply the manner >that is was released and the features it lacks that I have a problem with. >Not as a GPLer.... but as a person who loves the entire Sim Racing >community.... and someone who is getting a bit tired of watching games go >down the drain because some dimwit who happens to know how to code... didn't >take the overall look at the impact on the community. I have seen this >plague ruin more than a few games and online-friendships in my time. Maybe you need to get out and socialize more. In the end it is only a game and it is supposed to be fun. If you find it is no longer fun then move on... (generically speaking, not specifically targeted at any one person) Regards, Anthony Bulloch

First... I simply stated that I was aware of a track editing program that was under development. I was in no way involved or in contact with those who were creating it. I simply tip my hat to them for taking the community and the effects of their actions under consideration regarding the function of that software. Second.... I will quote from you specifically: "In the end it is only a game and it is supposed to be fun." What fun is it when there are wild accusations about cheating whenever someone turns a good lap/race? VROC does not support the detection of the checksums for the local game configurations (and apply limitations to the configurations based on selected parameters in teh sessions). So it is now a global problem of "Geez..... I think he is running an Eagle engine in that Lotus... but I have no REAL way of knowing for sure." The online leagues are now in turmoil.... the hotlap competitions are being shutdown... and GPLRank is taking the problem under consideration. The entire "benchmark comparisons" is now all shot to hell.... and the popularity of GPLRank/Hotlaps/Leagues in GPL is a testament to the importance of community integrity. I agree that you are entitled to your opinion... but what do you have to say about all these shutdowns happening around you? I assume that your passion for this topic arises somewhat from your love of the game/community... what would your position be if GPLRank shut its doors because of this editor? Regards, Schumi "Anthony Bulloch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:22:45 -0800, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Blah, blah..... > > >For this reason alone I find this editor to be a black mark on the > >community. > > Your entitled to you opinion, here is mine... > > > >I can remember talking with Alisson regarding a track editor someone

made...

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> >that would allow you to make your own tracks..... but also allow you to > > This is the important part. You are stating the you are AWARE of a > working track editor that has been withheld from your beloved "GPL > community" due to you and some other hard working GPL enthusiasts who > are acting in a dictatorial fashion. The creator of any piece of > software is entitled to do what they want with their software, however > creating such tool and then withholding it for petty reasons is not > very community minded but it is THEIR choice. Conversely, the creator > of this software does not have to ask for your, mine or anyone's > approval before releasing it. For you appoint yourself as the moral > conscience of the GPL community is downright selfish. > > GPL is not and never will be a piece of software that will encourage, > entice or entertain the element of society that likes to cheat. Even > an XYZ chassis with an ABC engine will still be more challenging than > your average cheating inclined youth will tolerate. GPL is well past > it's use by date in terms of attracting new gamers from the shop > shelves, people will continue to migrate from lesser simulators once > they have been bitten by the bug but the vast majority of these people > and current drivers are very, very unlikely to be attracted to the > idea of cheating to fool themselves or their peers. > > Your attitude along with many of the posts vehemently proclaiming the > end of GPL due to the release of this patch is amazingly shortsighted. > GPL is one of the very few simulators over the years that has managed > to retain and develop it's following. Part of the success has been > due to the great work done by many to develop new tracks, cockpits, > graphics and various utilities . There are many people actively > involved trying to ensure that GPL remains as addictive and enjoyable > as possible in these days of endless Nascar, NFS, TOCA clones. Yet so > many people are concerned only with their self interest and > importance. We all know who the quick drivers are, credibility is not > built solely on winning one online race or suddenly being in the top > ten in GPLRank. > > Who knows what other projects the designer of this tool has on the go, > however all this bitching and moaning like a spoilt 10 year old may > put an end to that. Remember GPal, who knows what we have lost due to > the hounding and moaning from self interested people who would not > just accept that this whole deal is supposed to be enjoyable for both > the users and the coders. > > >manipulate the current tracks,. It was not released (or maybe it has

now)...

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> >until they could ENSURE that the editor was for the purpose of creating a > >new track/track-file that was editable in itself as a program specific > >extension working file..... but not allow the editor to manipulate > >end-product (ready for distribution). > > > > > >Meaning... make your tracks all ya want.... but you cannot edit the ones > >already distributed (they remain intact). My hats off to this... THAT is

the

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> >way you release an editor whilst keeping the integrity of the community > >intact. > > When can I download this politically correct track editor?? > > > > >In closing... the editor that is causing all the latest buzz IS a pretty > >cool tool... that I am sure many will have fun with. > > Bingo. > > It is simply the manner > >that is was released and the features it lacks that I have a problem

with. > >Not as a GPLer.... but as a person who loves the entire Sim Racing > >community.... and someone who is getting a bit tired of watching games go > >down the drain because some dimwit who happens to know how to code...didn't

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> >take the overall look at the impact on the community. I have seen this > >plague ruin more than a few games and online-friendships in my time. > > Maybe you need to get out and socialize more. In the end it is only a > game and it is supposed to be fun. If you find it is no longer fun > then move on... (generically speaking, not specifically targeted at > any one person) > > > Regards, > Anthony Bulloch

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:06:42 -0800, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote: >First... I simply stated that I was aware of a track editing program that >was under development. I was in no way involved or in contact with those who >were creating it. I simply tip my hat to them for taking the community and >the effects of their actions under consideration regarding the function of >that software. The key issue is this whole "community" deal, surely a functional track editor enabling the creation of hundreds of tracks from all around the world is going the develop the community far more than a couple of misfits who only see the opportunity to cheat. It just goes to show how nieve I am, the last thing I would think to do with a track editor is straighten a few corners to improve my GPL rank. Maybe I am in the minority given the uproar created recently ! > >Second.... I will quote from you specifically: "In the end it is only a game >and it is supposed to be fun." > >What fun is it when there are wild accusations about cheating whenever >someone turns a good lap/race? Surely the fun is in the personal satisfaction. I do see your point but I just don't understand how you place so much importance on what other people think of your expertise. Sure, we are all competitive and the challenge of sim racing is to beat the other guy/girl but everything you do in life runs the risk of someone looking for the easy way out but you should not let that interfere with your personal challenge. > >VROC does not support the detection of the checksums for the local game >configurations (and apply limitations to the configurations based on >selected parameters in teh sessions). So it is now a global problem of >"Geez..... I think he is running an Eagle engine in that Lotus... but I have >no REAL way of knowing for sure." But do we know that any combination is going to be THAT much better than any of the current setups? > >The online leagues are now in turmoil.... the hotlap competitions are being >shutdown... and GPLRank is taking the problem under consideration. The >entire "benchmark comparisons" is now all shot to hell.... and the >popularity of GPLRank/Hotlaps/Leagues in GPL is a testament to the >importance of community integrity. Anyone could easily cheat in GPLRank's current form. League racers will have more integrity or will migrate to secure groups who know ant trust each other. > >I agree that you are entitled to your opinion... but what do you have to say >about all these shutdowns happening around you? I assume that your passion >for this topic arises somewhat from your love of the game/community... what >would your position be if GPLRank shut its doors because of this editor? Shutdowns are unfortunate but are you sure they are DIRECTLY related to cheating or is it due to decreasing numbers due to lack of commitment. Any tool that brings a new spark to a 2 year old game is pretty hard to dismiss IMHO. GPLRank will always have it's place just as hotlap competitions have for other sim's. There will always be accusations of cheating, founded or otherwise but that will not stop the enthusiast putting his/her time up as a comparison with their peers. Regards, Anthony Bulloch Regards, Anthony Bulloch

Well said Anthony. I agree with you completely. If someone wants to jump in a Brab-Honda at Monza or Spa, thats up to them. I'll run my race and either race with them, get left behind by them, or pass them while they're buried in one of the many bushes :O) Exactly as happens now. As for GPLrank, I have put an awful lot of time into achieving a -50 handicap at this point in time. If the guys around me want to submit bogus laps that's up to them. If that means I'm 80th instead of 70th then so be it. Personally, I have done what a lot of other people have done and created a new player to mess around with the program. All my GPLrank times will continue to be pure. I am mainly aiming to track my own progress with the game and not against anyone in particular, thus the handicap history page is an oft-visited page. I can understand why people are upset, but if they could only see the ADVANTAGES instead of worrying how they will be beaten by someone who they think can't be bothered improving themselves. Hmm, 49 cars on SOOOO MANY tracks!!!! And Alison thought it was tough with 7 cars for 50 tracks!!! Embrace the technology and ENJOY the GAME. :O) Geordie Pugh Cranky Chicken Racing -50.06 "Anthony Bulloch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 22:06:42 -0800, "Jason \"Schumi\" Murray" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >First... I simply stated that I was aware of a track editing program that > >was under development. I was in no way involved or in contact with thosewho > >were creating it. I simply tip my hat to them for taking the communityand > >the effects of their actions under consideration regarding the functionof

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> >that software. > > The key issue is this whole "community" deal, surely a functional > track editor enabling the creation of hundreds of tracks from all > around the world is going the develop the community far more than a > couple of misfits who only see the opportunity to cheat. It just goes > to show how nieve I am, the last thing I would think to do with a > track editor is straighten a few corners to improve my GPL rank. > Maybe I am in the minority given the uproar created recently ! > > > >Second.... I will quote from you specifically: "In the end it is only a

game

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> >and it is supposed to be fun." > > > >What fun is it when there are wild accusations about cheating whenever > >someone turns a good lap/race? > > Surely the fun is in the personal satisfaction. > > I do see your point but I just don't understand how you place so much > importance on what other people think of your expertise. Sure, we are > all competitive and the challenge of sim racing is to beat the other > guy/girl but everything you do in life runs the risk of someone > looking for the easy way out but you should not let that interfere > with your personal challenge. > > > >VROC does not support the detection of the checksums for the local game > >configurations (and apply limitations to the configurations based on > >selected parameters in teh sessions). So it is now a global problem of > >"Geez..... I think he is running an Eagle engine in that Lotus... but I

have > >no REAL way of knowing for sure." > > But do we know that any combination is going to be THAT much better > than any of the current setups? > > > >The online leagues are now in turmoil.... the hotlap competitions arebeing

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> >shutdown... and GPLRank is taking the problem under consideration. The > >entire "benchmark comparisons" is now all shot to hell.... and the > >popularity of GPLRank/Hotlaps/Leagues in GPL is a testament to the > >importance of community integrity. > > Anyone could easily cheat in GPLRank's current form. League racers > will have more integrity or will migrate to secure groups who know ant > trust each other. > > > >I agree that you are entitled to your opinion... but what do you have to

say > >about all these shutdowns happening around you? I assume that yourpassion > >for this topic arises somewhat from your love of the game/community...what

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> >would your position be if GPLRank shut its doors because of this editor? > > Shutdowns are unfortunate but are you sure they are DIRECTLY related > to cheating or is it due to decreasing numbers due to lack of > commitment. Any tool that brings a new spark to a 2 year old game is > pretty hard to dismiss IMHO. > > GPLRank will always have it's place just as hotlap competitions have > for other sim's. There will always be accusations of cheating, > founded or otherwise but that will not stop the enthusiast putting > his/her time up as a comparison with their peers. > > Regards, > Anthony Bulloch > Regards, > Anthony Bulloch