Advice Needed

I'm looking for a F-1 simulator. I use to run GP2 which btw I thought was a great program, could never use it to its full use though until I purchased my PII 450. Are there any new ones that come close to this one? Does any of these support internet play? I have seen some posts about GP3... is there a new - updated version out??? Is it put out by the same people? Also, I have an old thrustmaster wheel which was ok when I bought it but I'm sure there is something better on the market. I'm looking for something in the range of 150.00. I know Thompson make a wheel for around 700.00 but that's a little to rich for my wallet. Thanks in advance for your help, Terry

On Mon 09 Oct 2000 12:56:14a, Terry McCann wrote: >I'm looking for a F-1 simulator.<snip> >I have seen some posts about GP3... is there a new - updated version >out??? Is it put out by the same people?<snip> The sequel to GP2, called (unimaginatively enough) GP3 is indeed by Geoff Crammond and Microprose. Racing sims are a very subjective area, but I think it is the best modern F1 simulation available right now. It's not perfect - for example, it only has 1998 cars (thouogh this is easily patched) and the menu system is fiddly, though that's because it's based on the GP2 system, which was also fiddly. But it's a fun game, the AI is reasonable, and its main attraction - the genuinely dynamic weather conditions - really does work very well. I've driven a race at Hockenheim which started dry, then a light shower began at one end of the circuit, gradually getting heavier and more widespread - a little like this year's real German GP, actually. GP3 has no internet play option. This is an utterly stupid decision, which Microprose tried to justify by saying that it wasn't possible to do it with decent performance on today's systems. Rubbish. GP4 will surely have it. If you like GP2, then GP3 is probably going to be your first choice of modern F1 sim, but there are others worth a look: Monaco Grand Prix Racing Simulation 2 (crazy name, nice game) has fantasy cars (no licence, see - though again, easily patched), and shows its age a bit, but is *very* cheap - you can get it in the UK for a fiver - and well worth it at that price. The forthcoming (fully licensed) sequel, F1 Racing Simulation 3, could (*could*) be very good indeed. EA's F1-2000 is also worth a look, though I don't have it, so can't go into great detail. You'll need a top-spec PC to play it with all details on, though a PII-450 or something shoudl be OK if you turn things down a bit. There is, of course, an F1 game better than any of these. I refer, naturally, to the one, the only, Grand Prix Legends. Two years old, but still the most desirable racing game of them all. It's set in 1967, but don't let you think that means slow - I've just done a race at Spa at an *average* of 150mph, and you can easily top 200 with a good setup. Ah, setup. Yes. The reason GPL is so good is that you can really feel even small differences when you change one of the zillions of options. It has the best physics of any game you can get commercially - even real racing drivers say this. Then, of course, there are the tracks - the original 11, including Spa and the *real* N�rburgring; and the addon tracks made by enthusiasts. Unlike GP2, which has loads of extra tracks, GPL donesn't have a huge number (if you discount ones converted from other games), but some are of stunning quality. Solitude, for example, by the GPLEA, is easily superior to some commercial tracks - and it's free! Support is nearly non-existent - just a couple of must-have patches - the upgrade from v.1.0 to v1.2, which is vital for Internet racing (see, Microprose, Papyrus could support it in 1998!); and the Direct3D patch if you have a TNT or GeForce videocard (GPL only supports 3dfx and the ancient Renditions as standard). On the other hand, of course, the GPL community, while it may be small, is fiercely loyal and very involved, so if you get stuck, someone on r.a.s. will probably have the answer. GPL isn't all that easy to get hold of, but it is very cheap (it came out in 1998, after all), and you'll never regret the effort. >Also, I have an old thrustmaster wheel which was ok when I bought it but >I'm sure there is something better on the market. I'm looking for >something in the range of 150.00.<snip> 150 what? Lira? ;-) I said above that racing sims were a very subjective area - and wheels are about the most subjective part of all. Rule number one: do *not* buy a wheel until you've tried it, *with the games you want to play*. If the shop won't let you do that, or the company won't accept returns, go elsewhere. I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback ("MSFF") and love it dearly. For my driving style, it's exactly right, and I wouldn't swap it for anything. I don't know about the US, but here in the UK they sell for about �80, so are well within your price range. And they're compatible with every game you can think of - say what you like about MS, but they make excellent peripherals. Another good choice is the Logitech Wingman Force Feedback. It has a different feel to the MS, which some people like and some don't (I don't), but is certainly worth a try. This would also be within your range. There are other wheels, but a lot of them aren't (easily, anyeay) available in the UK, so I'll leave others to make recommendations there. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.33) The GPL Scrapyard - http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

About your wheel, I assume that you are refering to Thomas...and their lowest priced wheel costs $200. Everything but the pots have a lifetime warrenty on it and they have easy upgrading. If you have a little extra money at some time and want a clutch, or paddle shifters, or a new wheel, you can buy the add on kit for it. You will never have to buy another wheel. http://www.thomas-superwheel.com. Jesse Black "Terry McCann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UO7E5.1469$[email hidden]... > I'm looking for a F-1 simulator. I use to run GP2 which btw I thought wasa > great program, could never use it to its full use though until I purchased > my PII 450. Are there any new ones that come close to this one? Does any > of these support internet play? > > I have seen some posts about GP3... is there a new - updated versionout??? > Is it put out by the same people? > > Also, I have an old thrustmaster wheel which was ok when I bought it butI'm > sure there is something better on the market. I'm looking for somethingin

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> the range of 150.00. I know Thompson make a wheel for around 700.00 but > that's a little to rich for my wallet. > > Thanks in advance for your help, > > Terry > >

On Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:56:14 -0400, "Terry McCann" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm looking for a F-1 simulator. I use to run GP2 which btw I thought was a >great program, could never use it to its full use though until I purchased >my PII 450. Are there any new ones that come close to this one? Does any >of these support internet play? Grand Prix 2 was one of the best selling games in PC history, and despite its age, is still considered a benchmark upon which all modern F1 simulators are compared. As you rightly pointed out, however, at a time when a 486 was considered to be a rocket on steroids, GP2 required a hefty system to make the most out of it. Some of us are finding that, with the newer and faster PC's of today, we're able to go back and play GP2 in a whole new light - as if it's an entirely new simulator, compared to the one we used to play at only a few frames per second. Programmed by the same mastermind behind GP2, Geoff Crammond, Grand Prix 3 is the latest edition to the ever growing F1 racing simulator market. Using the same, but tweaked, physics engine as before, and with superior graphics, including hardware acceleration, GP3 is a brilliant reconstruction of modern-day formula 1. Unfortunately, it was something of a rush job and many of the features which should have been implemented, weren't. For example, internet multiplayer support was not included. This does give GP3 a linear feel. Knowing that without multiplayer access over the internet we would have to rely on the AI to compete against, the intelligence should have been a top priority. Sadly, it wasn't, and GP3 does suffer from some inexcusably bad AI at times. GP3 is also bugged to head to foot and is desperate need of patching. And, as if to rub salt in a wound, it doesn't have an up-to-date F1 license, so all the teams and tracks are from the 1998 season. But, if you can look beyond those flaws, and most of us can, you'll find that GP3 is a highly accurate recreation of one of the finest sports in the world. It does precisely what it set out to do, and that's simulate formula 1 on the PC. Great graphics, great speed and a perfect overall feel, you can be the only one to judge whether or not it's worth your money. As always, it's a good idea to try to demo before you purchase the full version. Then you'll be in the perfect position to decide what's right for you. Some other popular F1 simulators include: - F1 Racing Simulation (highly detailed and accurate for its time, and if I'm not mistaken one of the first racing simulators to use Direct3D. Unfortunately, it was far from perfect and could have been greatly improved on.) - Monaco Grand Prix Racing Simulation 2 (the sequel to F1RS, above. Improved graphics and tweaked physics, plus an added 50's style version of racing, MGPRS2 is a great title to own, especially now that you can find it for under a fiver. Although it wasn't perfect, and had no official license, and it wasn't much of a change to F1RS, it's still a great F1 sim, which you'd be nuts to miss out on. - F1 2000 (haven't tried it myself, yet, but there are mixed reviews about this one. It suffers from a terrible graphics engine, which causes MASSIVE frame rate hits, even on the highest of high-end PC's. Fortunately, it DOES have an official 2000 license. Hurrah!) - Grand Prix Legends (not a modern F1 simulator - it's actually based on the cars, tracks and teams from 1967, and is so indisputably perfect, that most of us will still be playing it when we're grandparents. The absolute e-ching of all racing simulators. You're in for no easy ride with it, however, as it demands decades of practice before you'll be truly confident in it, but the feeling of joy you will receive is better than sex...) - Grand Prix 3 (the most recent F1 simulator, and the sequel to Grand Prix 2. A definite buy if you enjoyed GP2) >Also, I have an old thrustmaster wheel which was ok when I bought it but I'm >sure there is something better on the market. I'm looking for something in >the range of 150.00. I know Thompson make a wheel for around 700.00 but >that's a little to rich for my wallet. There are many good steering wheels available. The best are the ones with force feedback, which allow you to 'feel' what your car is doing, which adds bucket loads of depth to your games. They can be a little pricey, mind you. My personal favourite is the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback wheel. Enough buttons for all of your keyboard shortcuts, excellent set of pedals, and some bloody powerful force feedback. It's a bargain, at whatever price you find it. If this information wasn't enough for you, drop me a line with any questions you might have.

In article <[email hidden]>, Moon-Watcher <[email hidden]> wrote: > On Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:56:14 -0400, "Terry McCann"<[email hidden]> wrote: <MAJOR SNIP> > - F1 2000 (haven't tried it myself, yet, but there are mixed > reviews about this one. It suffers from a terrible graphics engine, > which causes MASSIVE frame rate hits, even on the highest of high-end > PC's. Fortunately, it DOES have an official 2000 license. Hurrah!) You are perpetuating a MAJOR misconception here -- I have seen F1 2000 run successfully (in the 20 fps range) on a lowly AMD K6-2 450 system with 64 MB of RAM and an aging 16 MB Voodoo Banshee board. Some of the graphics had to be scaled-back a bit, but it still looks better than GP2 did on my 486 system way back when. Amazing how spoiled we become for eye-candy. I am now running it on my newly-"upgraded" system, which is now AMD K6- 2 500 system with 64 MB of RAM (still) and a 32 MB TNT2 M64 video card (the M64 version is the lowliest of the TNT2 boards), and I'm getting about the same frames per second with slightly better graphics details, but it's noticeably smoother (which means I'm probably getting more consistent fps, if not faster). Don't believe the B.S. you hear about needing a high-end system to run F1 2000 -- those people who have a 400 MHz or better Celeron, PII, or PIII system and can't get it to run simply haven't spent enough time tweaking the graphics settings. It can and does run well on mid-range systems if you're willing to make some eye-candy sacrifices, and the physics engine is MUCH more rewarding than anything out there aside from GPL or NASCAR Heat.

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> There are many good steering wheels available. The best are the ones > with force feedback, which allow you to 'feel' what your car is doing, > which adds bucket loads of depth to your games. They can be a little > pricey, mind you. My personal favourite is the Microsoft Sidewinder > Force Feedback wheel. Enough buttons for all of your keyboard > shortcuts, excellent set of pedals, and some bloody powerful force > feedback.

The best ones are NOT the ones with force feedback -- that's strictly a matter of preference. My first force feedback wheel was a HUGE disappointment after the novelty wore off. For me, force feedback is more of a distraction, and it takes away from the immersion of a driving sim. This is a VERY personal preference, and I recommend that everybody should try a force feedback rig before committing their hard- earned dollars on someone else's say-so. I personally prefer my non- force feedback TSW2, but I won't recommend that as the only best solution, because there are plenty of others. The Andretti Mad Catz wheel is VERY nice, as is the ACT Labs RS setup and the Logitech Wingman Formula wheel; I also like the non-force feedback Microsoft Sidewinder wheel as well. > It's a bargain, at whatever price you find it. If he likes the force feedback effects, that is. The non-FF version can be had for about $50, and that's an even bigger bargain. If you buy NASCAR Heat at Best Buy now for $39, you get the current Saitek R200 (I think that's the model) for free after rebate -- THAT is a bargain, considering that the Saitek wheel is a virtual knockoff of the Microsoft Sidewinder wheel, and that you get NASCAR Heat as well. Just my $0.02. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:41:51 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >those people who have a 400 MHz or better Celeron, PII, or >PIII system and can't get it to run simply haven't spent enough time >tweaking the graphics settings. I think the point is that they're saying they shouldn't have to tweak any settings. The complaints tend to be about the graphic details when they're on their highest settings. >It can and does run well on mid-range >systems if you're willing to make some eye-candy sacrifices, and the >physics engine is MUCH more rewarding than anything out there aside >from GPL or NASCAR Heat. As I have yet to play it, I can't confirm or deny this. But I would like to ask if you know what this 3D cockpit thing is? I'm told that with it, you're able to look from side to side in the cockpit? Does it have any interactive features, on the steering wheel? That'd be a bonus!

On 9 Oct 2000 09:31:17 GMT, [email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote: >GP3 has no internet play option. This is an utterly stupid decision, which >Microprose tried to justify by saying that it wasn't possible to do it with >decent performance on today's systems. Rubbish. GP4 will surely have it. Absolutely. We used VROC on GPL and it worked perfectly well.