Re: Nigel Roebuck and GPL

On Wed 30 Aug 2000 10:45:26am, Mark D wrote: >For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded >motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on >http://www.autosport.com His column is the best reason to buy Autosport, IMO. He talks more straight sense than most people in F1 (not hard...). >Dear Dino, Yes, I do like having fun, but, sad to say, I've never >played 'Grand Prix Legends' - and there's really no excuse, because >I bought it as soon as it came out! Hang on here. NR's had the game for two years, and never played it? Now that *is* weird. >The thing is, I've never been able to persuade myself to go out and >buy all the steering-wheel and pedals and stuff that real >afficionados swear by; fond as I am of racing games, it seems a bit >ridiculous to clutter up the house with all that paraphernalia, This gets stranger. We now hear that NR likes racing games, but has never bought a wheel. I find that amazing (unless he's really Wolfgang Woeger and can make a stick work wonders). >although I realise this will come across as heresy to true >believers. Come, brethren! We must teach this unbeliever the One True Way, the Way of the Eagle (Lotus, Cooper, etc). We must instil in this infidel the importance of the great virtues: honour (in clock smashes), courage (braking in front of Surtees), hope (that for once he'll miss you) self-restraint (not punting him off in revenge), charity (ditto), poverty (when you've taken out a huge overdraft to pay for your latest upgrade) and justice (when Surtees retires from the lead on the last corner after being taken out by a backmarker). >Thus, racing games played on a computer - fiddling around with the >cursor buttons - have never really appealed to me. This after saying "fond as I am of racing games". Bit of a contradiction there. > I have a Sony >Playstation, and use that quite a lot, but unfortunately there has >never been a version of 'Racing Legends' available for it; if there >were, I'm sure I would play it constantly. Doubt it - the Playstation couldn't cope. A Dreamcast version might work, though the problem would be the lack of access to all the various addons. I think GPL only really works as a PC game really. >Having never done so, however, which would be my favourite car and >track? Almost certainly, the Chris Amon Ferrari and the 'old' Spa- >Francorchamps, although I imagine that the 'old' Nurburgring and >Rouen Les Essarts would come close. Someone get this man to play Solitude... -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.17) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) The GPL Scrapyard - mangled wrecks from http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

"Mark D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oil3j$qlu$[email hidden]...

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> For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded > motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on > http://www.autosport.com > > Dino Scatena asked a question that I'd always meant to ask: > > -------------------

<SNIP> Brilliant! Thanks Mark. -- don New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks: http://www.ianparker1.plus.com/gpl/bapom/

For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on http://www.autosport.com Dino Scatena asked a question that I'd always meant to ask: ------------------- Dear Nigel, As a journalist and a motor racing nut, I have long been a fan of your writing and insight. But, on a more important matter, do you ever play the PC game Grand Prix Legends? If so, what are your thoughts? Which is your favourite car, your favourite track? If you don't play the game, what's wrong with you? Don't you like having fun? Dino Scatena, Sydney, Australia Dear Dino, Yes, I do like having fun, but, sad to say, I've never played 'Grand Prix Legends' - and there's really no excuse, because I bought it as soon as it came out! Some of my colleagues in the press room, however, have played it quite a bit, and all report that it's a fantastic game - and also incredibly difficult. The thing is, I've never been able to persuade myself to go out and buy all the steering-wheel and pedals and stuff that real afficionados swear by; fond as I am of racing games, it seems a bit ridiculous to clutter up the house with all that paraphernalia, although I realise this will come across as heresy to true believers. Thus, racing games played on a computer - fiddling around with the cursor buttons - have never really appealed to me. I have a Sony Playstation, and use that quite a lot, but unfortunately there has never been a version of 'Racing Legends' available for it; if there were, I'm sure I would play it constantly. Having never done so, however, which would be my favourite car and track? Almost certainly, the Chris Amon Ferrari and the 'old' Spa- Francorchamps, although I imagine that the 'old' Nurburgring and Rouen Les Essarts would come close. ------------------- There you go. Mark Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote: : On Wed 30 Aug 2000 10:45:26am, Mark D wrote: :>For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded :>motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on :>http://www.autosport.com : His column is the best reason to buy Autosport, IMO. He talks more : straight sense than most people in F1 (not hard...). Hmm... His column is the worst reason to buy Autosport. He lost interest in motorracing when Prost gave up and has spent the last 10 years complaining. He is paid to attend grandprix and expects us to be grateful for reading about him complaining. I find him an irritating whiner. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

I like his column but his get very annoyed by his absolute loathing of Nigel Mansell, every opportunity he gets to take some side-swipe at Mansell he does. Mansell as a person may not be every ones cup of tea but as a RACING driver the guy was awesome. Where as Alain 'Sun shines out of my ass, even though I was caught screwing the bosses wife when I drove for Renault' Prost can never do any wrong. Regards Mike On 31 Aug 2000 10:59:45 GMT, Richard G Clegg <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote: >: On Wed 30 Aug 2000 10:45:26am, Mark D wrote: > >:>For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded >:>motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on >:>http://www.autosport.com > >: His column is the best reason to buy Autosport, IMO. He talks more >: straight sense than most people in F1 (not hard...). > > Hmm... His column is the worst reason to buy Autosport. He lost >interest in motorracing when Prost gave up and has spent the last >10 years complaining. He is paid to attend grandprix and expects us >to be grateful for reading about him complaining. I find him an >irritating whiner.

Isn't this kind of a contradiction? Mike Blackmore wrote: >Mansell as a person may not be every ones cup of tea but as a RACINGdriver the guy was awesome. Don't know about "awesome," but he was a very hard worker, much in the mold of Graham Hill -- great to watch. As a person... well, who cares? > Where as Alain 'Sun shines out of my ass, even though I was caught screwing the bosses > wife when I drove for Renault' Prost can never do any wrong. But where it was OK that Mansell might not be oojah-cum-spiff as a person as long as he was a good driver, Prost's great sin was that he was layin' pipe with the boss' wife? Bit of an inconsistency, idn't it? Prost was a great driver -- calculating (sometimes TOO calculating, just as Mansell could sometimes be too impetuous), smooth, precise: they didn't call him "The Professor" for nothing. What he was doing with the boss' wife had nothing to do with what he was doing on the track. BB

Mmmmmmmm I see what your saying Barton but it is Nigels (Roebuck that is) constant sniping that gets to me. And he was awesome. If anybody thinks that Mika's pass on Michael was good then Nigels pass on Senna at the 89 Hungarian GP was right up there with it and his going around the outside of Gerhard Berger at the Peraltada in 90 and the move on Piquet in 87 oh and 86 in Britain etc...so I'll stick with awesome : ) As for Prost your right !!! It's just that even now Roebuck cannot criticise Alain ever, OK he likes the guy but Alain could perhaps be a little political (This may be the undoing of Prost GP) 'oojah-cum-spiff' Thats great have to try that on the wife tonight : ) Best wishes Mike Ps I still like 5th Column, I consider the above to be an irritation not a reason to stop reading it. On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:38:43 GMT, Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Isn't this kind of a contradiction? > >Mike Blackmore wrote: > >>Mansell as a person may not be every ones cup of tea but as a RACING >driver the guy was awesome. > >Don't know about "awesome," but he was a very hard worker, much in the >mold of Graham Hill -- great to watch. As a person... well, who cares? > >> Where as Alain 'Sun shines out of my ass, even though I was caught screwing the bosses >> wife when I drove for Renault' Prost can never do any wrong. > >But where it was OK that Mansell might not be oojah-cum-spiff as a >person as long as he was a good driver, Prost's great sin was that he >was layin' pipe with the boss' wife? Bit of an inconsistency, idn't it? >Prost was a great driver -- calculating (sometimes TOO calculating, just >as Mansell could sometimes be too impetuous), smooth, precise: they >didn't call him "The Professor" for nothing. What he was doing with the >boss' wife had nothing to do with what he was doing on the track. > >BB

Just to be provocative and controversial. I don't consider Prost to be a great driver. In my opinion winning a bunch of Championships doesn't make you a great driver. Prosts greatest accomplishment was his political ability to make sure he drove with the best car. Put Prost in an ordinary car or in the rain and he was useless. Put Schmumi, Mansell or Senna in a bad car and/or in the rain and they could still do something. That is talent and a great driver! I read in a racing book a comparative description about the abilities of Prost, Mansell, and Senna. It goes something like this: Mansell could do things with an F1 car that Senna could do but wasn't crazy enough to do it, and Prost wasn't capable and would never attempt to do it. Rory S. Brown

Richard G Clegg wrote:

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> > David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote: > : On Wed 30 Aug 2000 10:45:26am, Mark D wrote: > > :>For those who may not know, Nigel Roebuck is a highly regarded > :>motorsports journalist who, amonst other things, has a weekly Q&A on > :>http://www.autosport.com > > : His column is the best reason to buy Autosport, IMO. He talks more > : straight sense than most people in F1 (not hard...). > > Hmm... His column is the worst reason to buy Autosport. He lost > interest in motorracing when Prost gave up and has spent the last > 10 years complaining. He is paid to attend grandprix and expects us > to be grateful for reading about him complaining. I find him an > irritating whiner.

Interesting to read this, especially since I just read Frank Williams' "column" about Nigel R in the 50 year anniversary issue Personally I think Nigel is one of the really great F1 journalists, and I', pleased to see that he actually holds an opinion rather than stick to the "I don't dare upset Max and Bernie and possibly loose my credentials" routine Yes, he might have a preference for Prost as a driver, so has many other well respected driver, team owners and journalists, and yes he might express that admiration more than he ought to, to be totally objective at all times, but his wealth of knowledge and writing style, having the guts to tell it like most people would see it, really makes up for that ...of course it helps that I'm a fan of said ex F1 driver :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

mmmmmmmmmm I'll try to keep out of this one I think but what I would say is that the thought of 26 Alain Prosts recing each other would put me to sleep but 26 Mansells or 26 Senna's wow that would be a race (If any one survived) Regards Mike On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:43:43 GMT, "Rory S. Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Just to be provocative and controversial. I don't consider Prost to be a >great driver. In my opinion winning a bunch of Championships doesn't make >you a great driver. Prosts greatest accomplishment was his political >ability to make sure he drove with the best car. Put Prost in an ordinary >car or in the rain and he was useless. Put Schmumi, Mansell or Senna in a >bad car and/or in the rain and they could still do something. That is >talent and a great driver! I read in a racing book a comparative >description about the abilities of Prost, Mansell, and Senna. It goes >something like this: Mansell could do things with an F1 car that Senna >could do but wasn't crazy enough to do it, and Prost wasn't capable and >would never attempt to do it. > >Rory S. Brown >

"Rory S. Brown" wrote:

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> > Just to be provocative and controversial. I don't consider Prost to be a > great driver. In my opinion winning a bunch of Championships doesn't make > you a great driver. Prosts greatest accomplishment was his political > ability to make sure he drove with the best car. Put Prost in an ordinary > car or in the rain and he was useless. Put Schmumi, Mansell or Senna in a > bad car and/or in the rain and they could still do something. That is > talent and a great driver! I read in a racing book a comparative > description about the abilities of Prost, Mansell, and Senna. It goes > something like this: Mansell could do things with an F1 car that Senna > could do but wasn't crazy enough to do it, and Prost wasn't capable and > would never attempt to do it.

So when he was teammate to Senna and they ran close for the championship, or when he raced for Ferrari and gave Senna a good run don't count then ? Prost could run with the best of them on the track, or almost anyway, if needed, but most times he didn't need, and unlike Mansell had the enough confidence in his own abilities not to try and set fastest lap of the race 5 laps from the end when leading by 30 seconds or something Prost may not have been the most spectacular driver on the track at all times, but saying he was an ordinary driver who just knew how to get himself into the best car is....inaccurate Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

On Thu 31 Aug 2000 04:43:43pm, Rory S. Brown wrote: >Just to be provocative and controversial. I don't consider Prost to >be a great driver. Well, I can hardly let that pass... :-) >In my opinion winning a bunch of Championships >doesn't make you a great driver. Doesn't hurt, you know. Look at the list of triple champions: Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna... not a bad fantasy grid there! > Prosts greatest accomplishment was >his political ability to make sure he drove with the best car. Put >Prost in an ordinary car or in the rain and he was useless. Right. Like in 1986 when the McLaren was outclassed by the Williams, but he still won the championship, and also outpaced team-mate Rosberg, who was no slouch. Or 1990 when he almost won the championship for Ferrari (no mean feat) and outdrove Mansell all year. As for rain - Alain wasn't the greatest rain driver, but your comment is unfair. After all, we're comparing against Senna, who was one of the all-time great rainmasters.

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>Put Schmumi, Mansell or Senna in a bad car and/or in the rain and they >could still do something. That is talent and a great driver! I >read in a racing book a comparative description about the abilities >of Prost, Mansell, and Senna. It goes something like this: Mansell >could do things with an F1 car that Senna could do but wasn't crazy >enough to do it, and Prost wasn't capable and would never attempt to >do it.

Name, Author, Publisher, ISBN? Try telling the people at McLaren or Williams that Prost was not capable, and see what sort of a response you get. Juts this week, Button has been described by an insider as "a little Prost" in the making - and that was a big compliment. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.17) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh) The GPL Scrapyard - mangled wrecks from http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

In article <8oldr1$c4h$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> > He lost > interest in motorracing when Prost gave up and has spent the last > 10 years complaining. He is paid to attend grandprix and expects us > to be grateful for reading about him complaining. I find him an > irritating whiner. >

The eradication of the irritation is simple: don't read his jottings. For those of us of the same generation as Roebuck his anecdotes relating to the GP circus of the 60's and 70's make for interesting and entertaining reading (via his MotorSport column). With regard to his losing interest in modern F1, so what? A lot of us have. That it may have coincided with a particular driver closing his career is neither here nor there. BK Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

[email hidden] wrote: > >With regard to his losing interest in modern F1, so what? As far as I'm concerned, F1 died about 1973 and hasn't been resuscitated yet. The Manufacturers' Championship (WSC) ended with the banning of the 917 and 512 in 1972, and has only revived in the last 4 years. NASCAR's way too Mom & Apple Pie Saccharine Slick, and the less said about the mutual suicide pact between CART and IRL the better. IMEHO, the only real racing going on these days: the revivified WSC, Touring Cars, and World Rally. F1 -- ditch the wings and put 'em on Jetson Nifty-Fifty bias-ply recaps, say 6.50-15's all around. Force Mosely and Ecclestone to drive a guest car from each team in rotation, at least during Friday practice. (Seriously, didja hear Mosely derailed a palace coup at FIA today? See story below**) NASCAR -- Have Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon strip down to their skivvies and duke it out, and make their wives fight each other too, in a huge jello pit. Televise it through WWF. Continue through the rest of the season, with different drivers and their wives, significant others, or crew chiefs fighting every week, like on a Wednesday night. Award additional Cup points for the outcome of these matches, with bonus style points for best-looking wife, significant other, or crew chief, and level of near-nudity achieved. Get some of these namby-pamby "My Nabisco/Remington Arms/Preparation H/AstroGlide Chip Ganassi with Felix Sabates Racing Ford Taurus run real good today till it blowed up" Opie-wannabees to explore their inner male by reliving some NASCAR Golden Moments: Curtis Turner driving the rental car into the motel swimming pool, Smokey Yunick telling Bill France where he could put his goddamned regulations, Junior Johnson or Joe Weatherly doing most anything from their early years. I also advocate the reintroduction of the trackside helmet throw, where you wait till the guy you think bounced you into the infield comes around again, and you try to cold-cock him with your helmet, either thrown, or swung by the strap. Get outta them designer sponsor suits and lets see some blood, boys! CART/IRL -- Send Tony George on a fact-finding mission to Afghanistan to try and arrange an All-Islamic Oval Series with Osama Bin Laden as Chief Steward and race chaplain. Forget to give George return-trip tickets. Put all the cars from both series on the Indy track for a 24-hour race, with the first 40 dropping out being out of a Champ Car ride, permanently. Take what's left running and have a real series. **** Reported in Autosport today: Mosley heads off F1 'palace coup' FIA president Max Mosley has confronted F1 team owners over plans to try and oust him Max Mosley has headed off an attempt by some of the leading teams in Formula 1 to unseat him as president of the sport�s governing body. According to this week�s Autosport magazine, at least three teams wanted to remove FIA president Mosley because they felt he meddled too much in the running of Formula 1. But at a meeting between the teams, Mosley and F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone at Heathrow Airport yesterday, Mosley pre-empted any �palace coup� by confronting the team bosses on their intentions. Prime movers behind the attempt to oust Mosley were Ron Dennis of McLaren, Eddie Jordan and Sir Frank Williams. The Heathrow meeting had been arranged in order to discuss ways to increase the level of entertainment in F1 and to look at the policing and use of electronic driver aids, but sources say the FIA president began it by asking the team bosses to explain themselves over Autosport�s exclusive news story on the planned coup. Despite the teams expressing their concerns over several aspects of how the sport is organised and run, Mosley is said to have received assurances that they were not actively seeking to overthrow him. Following the recently-signed deal that gave Bernie Ecclestone the commercial rights to F1 for the next 100 years and consigned the FIA to a non-commercial and administrative role, the teams feel that the FIA�s role in F1 is superfluous. They want to remove the FIA from any role in F1 and write the rules themselves. A major concern to the teams is the way the F1 technical regulations are framed. The FIA prefers an element of ambiguity in the rules, which allows them to allow or disallow new ideas and technologies on a case-by-case basis. But the teams want the rules to be more specific, particularly in the case of electronics. Speaking in this week�s Autosport Ecclestone agreed with the teams that the current regulations are not clear and said he would support the teams� efforts to clarify the situation. Asked whether he was aware of the team bosses� desire to get rid of Mosley, Ecclestone said: �I know some of them are complaining that Max is interfering in things that they say have nothing to do with him. But the Formula 1 teams don�t have any votes in the election of the president of the FIA. It�s up to the 120-odd countries [in the FIA] that will vote whether they want Max as president or not.� One theory gathering momentum is that Ecclestone deliberately brought the issue out into the open in order to allow Mosley a forum in which to confront the teams. Mosley, who is 60-years-old, is still to decide whether he will seek another five-year term as FIA president when the post comes up for re-election next year.

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:59:58 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >So when he was teammate to Senna and they ran close for the >championship, or when he raced for Ferrari and gave Senna a good run >don't count then ? Being outqualified by 2s around Monaco in the same car is "close"? >Prost could run with the best of them on the track, or almost anyway, if >needed, but most times he didn't need, and unlike Mansell had the enough >confidence in his own abilities not to try and set fastest lap of the >race 5 laps from the end when leading by 30 seconds or something I would have thought setting a lap record at that time shows that you HAVE got confidence that you're not going to throw the car off the the road. Cheers! John

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:59:58 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >So when he was teammate to Senna and they ran close for the > >championship, or when he raced for Ferrari and gave Senna a good run > >don't count then ? > > Being outqualified by 2s around Monaco in the same car is "close"?

Was there ever any doubt that Senna was the master of Monaco, or that Prost hated the place ? Yes we could sit here and pick apart F1 racing from the day Prost had his debut and up until 1994 when Senna was killed, discussing each and every race, and I could say that in 1990 Prost won the Mexican GP from 13th on the grid, in a Ferrari, Senna never won any races starting below 6th, and that throughout his career Senna only won 6 races for another team than McLaren, whereas Prost won 21 for various teams, but I thought we discussed the overall impression we had of the drivers....

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> >Prost could run with the best of them on the track, or almost anyway, if > >needed, but most times he didn't need, and unlike Mansell had the enough > >confidence in his own abilities not to try and set fastest lap of the > >race 5 laps from the end when leading by 30 seconds or something > > I would have thought setting a lap record at that time shows that you > HAVE got confidence that you're not going to throw the car off the the > road.

Not according to Patrick Head, who in an interview a couple of years back commented on this very issue, and also said that using Nigel Mansell for testing was just about useless, they would tell him to go out and do "90% laps", but towards the end of a session Mansell would just go faster and faster and would "always" end the session with a couple of "all out" laps, he had to prove to himself over and over again that he could go fast I can't remember just when this was, but it was in Autosport a couple of years ago, Head was talking about the different drivers they had used the previous years, Hill, Senna, Mansell and Prost were the drivers in question if memory serves me right, might have been 96 as I don't think Hill had been crowned yet Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... [snip]

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> > >Prost could run with the best of them on the track, or almost anyway, if > >needed, but most times he didn't need, and unlike Mansell had the enough > >confidence in his own abilities not to try and set fastest lap of the > >race 5 laps from the end when leading by 30 seconds or something > > I would have thought setting a lap record at that time shows that you > HAVE got confidence that you're not going to throw the car off the the > road. > > Cheers! > John

Well then, by your own logic, Prost must have done something right. He is, after all, the record holder for number of races in which he set fast lap. Not a fellow to throw the car off though. cheers, David K.