For all you Nascar simmers who are thinking about NH...

I quote "Ed, I was going to post on the post about Good first try, but . . . . . But this kinda sent a chill in me. Your respose has, what I beleive put some nails in the so called Heat coffin. Let me explain some of my comments from you. You said that the die-Hard Sim fans are getting smaller. I disageee 100% with that statement. Wonder why nascar is the fastest growing sport in the world. Wonder why Nascar fans will but till they have no more money at the tracks. Wonder why TV bought the rights to Nascar for billions of dollars. Wonder why sponsers will pay over 10 million dpllars to sponser a car. Because Nascar is a great sport that their fans support will all their heart. Now, also in your post you also pretty much said, we made the game as arcadish as possible to try a please the hard-sim fans, but we were a second thought when plans were drawn up for Heat. Again another nail to the coffin. Ed you and Dan have done a great job selling this game, but I'm sure you will get a list of return that were issued out from stores that had to take them back. I'm sure they will be high. I do not even know what N4 will have in it, but I want to thank Papy for trying their hardest to please us so called die- hard sim fans. I just want Hasbro to look back and see how many have bought all the nascar sim games Papy made, some which you yourself was invovled with, we always kept coming back each and every year to get the new one, even if there was only small inprovements. We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will support N4 will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will be Papy knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Now that might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat your bottom dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy still has the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. I just hope you do well with Heat, but it will be for the very young that will be introduced to nascar, but will later on turn their attention to Papy's game for they would of have grow up and wanted more, than a beginners game. I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking tracks. Just a final thought here, as I read my forum I know most if not all of those that come and post at the forum and 70% of then are still under 20, and they can't see anything that will keep them from buying N4 and staying with that game instead of Heat, you see the young also want a true to life game ans want to race as thou they are really racing in a nascar race. So if your marketing group has said we are a dieing breed, I suggest they start looking for a new job, or profession because they have under estimated our love for this sport called Nascar. Rocket www.High-Compression.com" My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon enough!!

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:09:14 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >They want the experience of running in a NASCAR race - the look of the >cockpit, the flying parts in a wreck, they just don't want the chore >of actually driving a realistic stock car. I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that most of us simply don't have the time to spend learning the ins and outs of a complex sim. We're willing to settle with half sim, half arcade so we can jump right in and have fun instead of devoting our time to trying to make a single lap on course. I found the GPL demo extremely fun to learn but I never had the time to learn it so I spent most of my time in other sims. I'm glad both exist. Maybe someday I'll be rich and can spend 10 hours a day on GPL 2. I'm sure it's very rewarding in the long run.

Can you offer a better explanation, Frank? We're just discussing here, I'm sure I could be wrong. I do honestly believe that there is a small but vocal minority here that would prefer that there were no other racing games than GPL. I'm sure everyone has their own reasons for not liking games, not everyone here speaks for an entire group like you do, Frank. (our, we, us ;-) There are those who just refuse to play anything that isn't "equal to GPL", which I think is a silly way to go through life. If I had refused ever be with a woman who wasn't as beautiful as the girlfriend I had when I was in Panama, I would have missed out on a lot of good times, not to mention the birth of my son. > Oh c'mon Tracey, your starting to sound like BHMS member and/or DonWilshe > who see such machiavellian plots in every action of the community.It's > quite amusing that this whole thing happened multiple times in thepast, > before and after GPL was released.

Nos, > I guess so. After our previous...er...discussion (sorry for beingrude > to you, btw) I went and drove NH and N3 back to back again and youare > correct about everything you said. The driving model and graphicsare > excellent and far better than the other one. You know the one Imean. I don't know what to say... in 15 years of Usenet discussions, I don't think anyone has ever apologized to me or admitted they were wrong, and you just did both - in one post. <G> I'm impressed.

All good points, Ed. Maybe some people are afraid that if another game is accepted as a quality sim, it will somehow lower the value of the two plus years they have invested in GPL and their GPL rank. Others probably don't care if another game has a quality physics model, since they already have a game with that feature, and they aren't NASCAR fans. So the only ones left to appreciate NH are the NASCAR fans that have been waiting for a NASCAR sim with a great driving model - and I'm beginning to think there just aren't that many of us. Someone took a "wishlist" survey a while back for features in N4, and to my astonishment, the most requested feature was the ability to drive their car onto victory lane. Animated pit crew came in second. Sims are still popular, it's just that driving isn't the part people want to simulate, it would seem. Another thing many NASCAR fans want nothing to do with is tweaking setups; automated crewchief also got lots of mentions. People want to tell the computer the car is tight or loose and have it fixed for them. What's next, autopilot? "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:09:14 -0500, "Tracey A Miller"<[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I don't think many people, outside of this newsgroup, put muchweight > >in the driving model. The damage model is much more important tomost

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> >people. > > BUT, there are quite a few 'regulars' here in this ng bashing NH > for damage modeling, savegame, etc., even though it has a > -very- advanced physics model. They are refusing to buy it, making > long posts about how fucked up the developer/publisher is and > generally trying to turn people off to NH. They call it an 'arcade' > game right to the developer's face. When questioned, they say they > have a right to their opinion, etc., which of course they do. If you > want to see a -really- pathetic display of developer-bashing, > head over to the Hasbro forum: > > http://www.delphi.com/nascarheat/ > > Quite a mess, huh? > > I am predicting a day of reckoning for racing 'sims'. > > It will be a similar disaster as when the day of reckoning happened > in hardcore flight sims. The companies that produce(d) most of them > are out of business or redirected to more profitable enterprises. > > Janes, iMagic, Looking Glass, Microprose, etc., etc, are history. > They don't exist in the sim industry anymore. > > Gone. > > Poof. > > Also, the rancor being displayed at Ed, Dan and NH is > unprecedented in this ng and the web forums, with the > possible exception of the last developer who dared poke > his head in here during the M$:CPR fiasco. > > I guess we showed his 'arcade game' ass where to go, huh? > > Aren't we proud? > > This newsgroup is taking up far too much of my time, and it's > my fault for believing that intelligent discussion about our > supposed hobby could be something that would overpower > the need to trash the latest 'sim'. Also, the downfall of sims > and their developers is not something I want to witness. Again. > > It's a God-damned shame, and it's getting worse every day. > > So all you people with an 'opinion' as to why NH or GP3 or > Any-Damn-Thing-But-GPL(tm) is an 'arcade game' and a failure, > carry on! Keep on spreading your hatred for anything else. > > Make your comments LOUD and your threads L-O-N-G. > > We'll show their fuckin' asses what REAL simmers want. >

weird.. I thought it was crap just because it had no savegame... weird how these things get confused... even now I scroll down and those now praising were "Not going to buy..." weird weird weird... -- Tim, [email hidden]|[email hidden] http://legends.sports-gaming.com/forums.shtml FREE forums for your league... http://legends.sports-gaming.com Sim racing website loosely based on gpl... <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:40:53 -0500, rrevved > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >Why the change of heart? > > > > I never said I don't like it. I just complained about the lack of a > save game feature. I think the driving model is brilliant. State of > the art, IMO. > -- > Nos

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have >tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the >game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking >tracks. How about the driving model? Come on, the game/sim deserves a bit more credit than you give it. Apart from the damage model, too infrequent yellow flags and an in-game save feature I find little to fault NH for. Actually, I find the driving model exceptional. Why don't you? -- Nos

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I quote > >"Ed, I was going to post on the post about Good first try, but . . . . . >But this kinda sent a chill in me. Your respose has, what I beleive put some >nails in the so called Heat coffin. >Let me explain some of my comments from you. You said that the die-Hard Sim >fans are getting smaller. I disageee 100% with that statement. Wonder why >nascar is the fastest growing sport in the world.

This is quite laughable.Do you believe the Executive Producer for a major software company doesn't know market research.I'm sure Ed has read more data on the market than you will ever know.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> >My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon >enough!! What is it you don't like about Heat? Just curious. Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > What is it you don't like about Heat? Just curious. You know... there's nothing wrong with somebody NOT liking the title, and he's not forced to find any reason to. He simply doesn't like it. I don't like it much and I will probably return Nascar Heat, since it's not made for me. I don't have the willing or time to spend racing AI cars. I want to throw all my time to online multiplayer racing and helping the simracing community raise to a higher level. So NH is not made for me, since it has NO online community tools, and the developers have clearly said (even if they hinted the opposite when marketing the title) that multiplayer racing won't evolve too much in NH. So I'll just bring it back. That's all, I had the weekend to make my mind, I raced it extensively and I also have much knowledge about the product itself and the future of it by the words of Ed. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:23:11 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote >> What is it you don't like about Heat? Just curious. > > >You know... there's nothing wrong with somebody NOT liking the title, and >he's not forced to find any reason to. He simply doesn't like it. <snip> He doesn't have to, but it was quite a long post about him being disappointed that NH is an arcade game, without giving any reason. Don't know why, but I allways like it when people back up their opinions wih arguments. Andre

People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine program like Nascar Heat because they dislike a few things about it are cutting of their own noses to spite their face. The game costs measly $40. This represents about 4-5 trips to the movies for one person (6-10 hours of entertainment). The people who make the game are in a business venture. They could choose to assign their expensive programmers, marketing people etc. etc. to any number of projects. According to the PC-data web site, only one simulation of any kind (flight, racing ete) was in the top 20 for July. Guesss what it was? Right there at number 18 was NFS:PU. Which is in my opinion the second best in that series as far as driving model (after #1) and by far the best in terms of graphics, FF wheel support and reasonably good on-line racing. It's exceedingly rare that any product will completely satisfy you. If you're waiting for perfection, be prepared for a lot of dissappointment. On the other hand, if you support the companies who make an effort to produce something of quality as apposed to another "hunting" game, it's much more likely you'll get more in the future. Best Wishes, Scott "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:J5Yp5.72573$[email hidden]...

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> We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will support N4 > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will be Papy > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Now that > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat your bottom > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy still has > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon > enough!! >

The pathetic writing ability aside, this post is bullsh#t. Why do Nascar games sell like hell and games like GPL not sell well? (Dr. Seuss [sp?] was my uncle). The NON-diehard sim fans buy it at the check out counter at Walmart (deer hunter=nascar=budweiser=shot gun racks). The number of Nascar fans has nothing to do with the number of diehard sim fans. Nascar is the most popular sport in the US so selling a Nascar game is easy money for developers. MGI/Hasbro knows the market and hit a homerun with NH. It's a GOOD sim for diehards and GREAT game for the MAJORITY of the market, arcade lovin' Nascar fans. If papy had such great marketing acumen then why was GPL never followed up with a sequel? It was NOT a good return on equity for Sierra, that's why the engine wasn't used again. Oh yeah, they are using the engine again for a Nascar game, big surprise eh genius? Please have some business sense before posting such crap. -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me. "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:J5Yp5.72573$[email hidden]... > I quote > > "Ed, I was going to post on the post about Good first try, but . . . . . > But this kinda sent a chill in me. Your respose has, what I beleive put some > nails in the so called Heat coffin. > Let me explain some of my comments from you. You said that the die-Hard Sim > fans are getting smaller. I disageee 100% with that statement. Wonder why > nascar is the fastest growing sport in the world. Wonder why Nascar fans > will but till they have no more money at the tracks. Wonder why TV bought > the rights to Nascar for billions of dollars. Wonder why sponsers will pay > over 10 million dpllars to sponser a car. > Because Nascar is a great sport that their fans support will all their > heart. Now, also in your post you also pretty much said, we made the game as > arcadish as possible to try a please the hard-sim fans, but we were a second > thought when plans were drawn up for Heat. Again another nail to the coffin. > Ed you and Dan have done a great job selling this game, but I'm sure you > will get a list of return that were issued out from stores that had to take > them back. I'm sure they will be high. > I do not even know what N4 will have in it, but I want to thank Papy for > trying their hardest to please us so called die- hard sim fans. > I just want Hasbro to look back and see how many have bought all the nascar > sim games Papy made, some which you yourself was invovled with, we always > kept coming back each and every year to get the new one, even if there was > only small inprovements. > We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will support N4 > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will be Papy > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Now that > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat your bottom > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy still has > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. > I just hope you do well with Heat, but it will be for the very young that > will be introduced to nascar, but will later on turn their attention to > Papy's game for they would of have grow up and wanted more, than a beginners > game. > I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have > tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the > game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking > tracks. > Just a final thought here, as I read my forum I know most if not all of > those that come and post at the forum and 70% of then are still under 20, > and they can't see anything that will keep them from buying N4 and staying > with that game instead of Heat, you see the young also want a true to life > game ans want to race as thou they are really racing in a nascar race. So if > your marketing group has said we are a dieing breed, I suggest they start > looking for a new job, or profession because they have under estimated our > love for this sport called Nascar. > Rocket > www.High-Compression.com" > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon > enough!! > > >

Corey, if you are more than 8 years old, you should be ashamed for writing so poorly. How do you survive in a world that requires at least a small amount of literacy? I have nothing against your opinions of NASCAR Heat, but I suggest you go back to school, get your ass in some English classes, and stop being so damn ignorant. Corey West wrote:

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> I quote > > "Ed, I was going to post on the post about Good first try, but . . . . . > But this kinda sent a chill in me. Your respose has, what I beleive put some > nails in the so called Heat coffin. > Let me explain some of my comments from you. You said that the die-Hard Sim > fans are getting smaller. I disageee 100% with that statement. Wonder why > nascar is the fastest growing sport in the world. Wonder why Nascar fans > will but till they have no more money at the tracks. Wonder why TV bought > the rights to Nascar for billions of dollars. Wonder why sponsers will pay > over 10 million dpllars to sponser a car. > Because Nascar is a great sport that their fans support will all their > heart. Now, also in your post you also pretty much said, we made the game as > arcadish as possible to try a please the hard-sim fans, but we were a second > thought when plans were drawn up for Heat. Again another nail to the coffin. > Ed you and Dan have done a great job selling this game, but I'm sure you > will get a list of return that were issued out from stores that had to take > them back. I'm sure they will be high. > I do not even know what N4 will have in it, but I want to thank Papy for > trying their hardest to please us so called die- hard sim fans. > I just want Hasbro to look back and see how many have bought all the nascar > sim games Papy made, some which you yourself was invovled with, we always > kept coming back each and every year to get the new one, even if there was > only small inprovements. > We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will support N4 > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will be Papy > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Now that > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat your bottom > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy still has > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. > I just hope you do well with Heat, but it will be for the very young that > will be introduced to nascar, but will later on turn their attention to > Papy's game for they would of have grow up and wanted more, than a beginners > game. > I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have > tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the > game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking > tracks. > Just a final thought here, as I read my forum I know most if not all of > those that come and post at the forum and 70% of then are still under 20, > and they can't see anything that will keep them from buying N4 and staying > with that game instead of Heat, you see the young also want a true to life > game ans want to race as thou they are really racing in a nascar race. So if > your marketing group has said we are a dieing breed, I suggest they start > looking for a new job, or profession because they have under estimated our > love for this sport called Nascar. > Rocket > www.High-Compression.com" > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon > enough!!

I think the damage model ROCKS. You just have to enable Vertex Damage - and have an 866Mhz processor ;) --David Cook In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote...

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> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have > >tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the > >game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking > >tracks. > > How about the driving model? Come on, the game/sim deserves a bit more > credit than you give it. Apart from the damage model, too infrequent > yellow flags and an in-game save feature I find little to fault NH > for. Actually, I find the driving model exceptional. Why don't you? > -- > Nos >

Based on his post, I'd say the reason he doesn't like NASCAR Heat is because it's not N3 . . . -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > <snip> > >My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get heresoon > >enough!! > > What is it you don't like about Heat? Just curious. > > Andre > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

AMEN! BRAVO! <APPLAUSE> Well-said, Scott -- my feelings EXACTLY! We'll never see another GPL if we don't show the publishers that we want MORE REALISTIC driving sims. They'll keep cranking out games like "Test Drive" and "Swamp Buggy Racing" unless we prove to them that we want more realistic games like NFSPU, NH, and F12K -- and the only proof they have is sales figures. -- JB In article <YT%p5.136799$[email hidden]>, "Scott Pritchett" <[email hidden]> wrote: > People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine programlike Nascar > Heat because they dislike a few things about it are cutting of theirown noses to > spite their face. The game costs measly $40. This represents about4-5 trips > to the movies for one person (6-10 hours of entertainment). Thepeople who make > the game are in a business venture. They could choose to assign theirexpensive > programmers, marketing people etc. etc. to any number of projects.According > to the PC-data web site, only one simulation of any kind (flight,racing ete) was > in the top 20 for July. Guesss what it was? Right there at number18 was NFS:PU. > Which is in my opinion the second best in that series as far asdriving model > (after #1) and by far the best in terms of graphics, FF wheel supportand reasonably > good on-line racing. It's exceedingly rare that any product willcompletely satisfy > you. If you're waiting for perfection, be prepared for a lot ofdissappointment. > On the other hand, if you support the companies who make an effort toproduce > something of quality as apposed to another "hunting" game, it's muchmore likely

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> you'll get more in the future. > > Best Wishes, > Scott > > "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:J5Yp5.72573$[email hidden]... > > We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will

support N4 > > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differancewill be Papy > > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible.Now that > > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat yourbottom > > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papystill has > > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on themarket. > > > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get heresoon > > enough!! > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Nope, he said N4 couldn't get here soon enough <grin> -Cheers! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8oa5p9$8us$[email hidden]...

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> Based on his post, I'd say the reason he doesn't like NASCAR Heat is > because it's not N3 . . . > > -- JB > > In article <[email hidden]>, > Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > <snip> > > >My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here > soon > > >enough!! > > > > What is it you don't like about Heat? Just curious. > > > > Andre > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Well said Scott. -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me. "Scott Pritchett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YT%p5.136799$[email hidden]... > People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine program like Nascar > Heat because they dislike a few things about it are cutting of their own noses to > spite their face. The game costs measly $40. This represents about 4-5 trips > to the movies for one person (6-10 hours of entertainment). The people who make > the game are in a business venture. They could choose to assign their expensive > programmers, marketing people etc. etc. to any number of projects. According > to the PC-data web site, only one simulation of any kind (flight, racing ete) was > in the top 20 for July. Guesss what it was? Right there at number 18 was NFS:PU. > Which is in my opinion the second best in that series as far as driving model > (after #1) and by far the best in terms of graphics, FF wheel support and reasonably > good on-line racing. It's exceedingly rare that any product will completely satisfy > you. If you're waiting for perfection, be prepared for a lot of dissappointment. > On the other hand, if you support the companies who make an effort to produce > something of quality as apposed to another "hunting" game, it's much more likely > you'll get more in the future. > > Best Wishes, > Scott > > "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:J5Yp5.72573$[email hidden]... > > We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will support N4 > > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will be Papy > > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Now that > > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat your bottom > > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy still has > > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. > > > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon > > enough!! > > > > >

I don't think many people, outside of this newsgroup, put much weight in the driving model. The damage model is much more important to most people. When they say they want a "serious simulation", they aren't talking about the physics, they are talking about everything but the physics, plus the ability to hack in anything that might be missing. I think they would rather have the cars glued to the track than have the possibility of one unrealistic flip. They want everything to happen exactly the way it does on TV - flames would be better accepted than flips. I believe they would rather feel the jolt of a collision than the ability to feel the weight shift in their force feedback wheels. Most of them would probably prefer the easiest NFS type physics model, as long as they had control of their cars on the pace lap and the ability to save their race, they would be happy. I believe Ed Martin was right, "hardcore sim" types are a dying breed, but he miscalculated what the "arcade" crowd is looking for in a game. They want the experience of running in a NASCAR race - the look of the cockpit, the flying parts in a wreck, they just don't want the chore of actually driving a realistic stock car. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> thusspoke: > > > >I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. Ihave > >tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to findsomething in the > >game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesomelooking > >tracks. > > How about the driving model? Come on, the game/sim deserves a bitmore > credit than you give it. Apart from the damage model, too infrequent > yellow flags and an in-game save feature I find little to fault NH > for. Actually, I find the driving model exceptional. Why don't you? > -- > Nos

"Scott Pritchett" <[email hidden]> wrote > People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine program likeNascar > Heat because they dislike a few things about it LOL... that's "your" opinion. For somebody a few things might be essential elements he wants to have in the game that his own money, the money he worked for will spend. If those elements aren't featured or are lacking in quality, then it's quite a good reason to return it. Also saying that a game is cheap is an excuse. We should never judge things by what they cost. It's irrelevant. A company that sells things less/more expensive than others shouldn't care less about the quality of it's product. Not saying that NH is bad, not at all. But to say "well dude it's like just 4-5movie trips" is naive. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:38:26 GMT, "Joe Marques" <Joe"NO_SPAM"[email hidden]> thus spoke: >The pathetic writing ability aside, Why put down someones writing ability Joe? It is irrelevant, not to mention rude. NH is making you weird. -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:45:53 GMT, mracer <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Corey, if you are more than 8 years old, you should be ashamed for writing so >poorly. How do you survive in a world that requires at least a small amount of >literacy? > >I have nothing against your opinions of NASCAR Heat, but I suggest you go back >to school, get your ass in some English classes, and stop being so damn >ignorant.

Talk about ignorant. Sheesh! -- Nos

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:40:53 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Why the change of heart? > I never said I don't like it. I just complained about the lack of a save game feature. I think the driving model is brilliant. State of the art, IMO. -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:09:14 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >They want the experience of running in a NASCAR race - the look of the >cockpit, the flying parts in a wreck, they just don't want the chore >of actually driving a realistic stock car. I guess so. After our previous...er...discussion (sorry for being rude to you, btw) I went and drove NH and N3 back to back again and you are correct about everything you said. The driving model and graphics are excellent and far better than the other one. You know the one I mean. :-) -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:05:55 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Janes, iMagic, Looking Glass, Microprose, etc., etc, are history. >They don't exist in the sim industry anymore. iMagic dug their own grave. Jane's would not do the dynamic campaign thing. Most people don't want to play static missions anymore. Looking Glass, well that was just bad business because I don't think their games like SS2 and Thief did too poorly on the market. I think it's just a case of return on investment and hardcore sims don't provide enough for most publishers. But, we still have a few kicking around that are willing to go the extra mile. PC gaming is traditionally hardcore in any genre and I don't think many publishers understand that or want to. There are companies that do though so I don't think any genre is going to be dead and buried forever. The sky is not falling, IMO. -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:10:55 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Hehe.. cool > >Here's some of my (unsolicited) opinion.. :) > >NH is about 1 or 2 patches away from the BEST racing >sim I have ever driven, and they are working on the >patch! > >Have fun >

Thx, you too. Hope those patches happen. -- Nos

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote > BUT, there are quite a few 'regulars' here in this ng bashing NH > for damage modeling, savegame, etc., even though it has a > -very- advanced physics model. Let's say we have a group that bashes a game that clearly has problems with the physics model but has incredible damage modeling and other features. Why can they do it but not the opposite? If somebody feels that damage modeling and savegame features are important for him in his satisfaction of a racing game, than I see no problem with that and seeing him whine about that. The game developer's job is to check out the important basic features missing in his title. You pick the problem of the average mass of the people that bought the game. X person could be whining that the kurb exiting Turn 7 at Sears Point is a feet too soon. Well he has the right, but that's probably a very small portion of the people that would have a problem with that! But damage modeling reaches a very, very big portion of the mass. This goes back to simple mathematics. The Laplace-Gauss distribution graphic is just that. It controls many important things in the gaming industry (should we patch X feature? should we add Y into our new version? What does the market we create our title think about Z?). If the curb becomes too leptokurtic for the developers or producers, then it's time to do something. > It will be a similar disaster as when the day of reckoning happened > in hardcore flight sims. The companies that produce(d) most of them > are out of business or redirected to more profitable enterprises. You are such a martyr. Oh my god what are we going to do! The earth won't stop spinning, but your making a couple of people's opinions like they would affect global economy. > It's a God-damned shame, and it's getting worse every day. What can you do? Your screwed, ha! You can't win at this game. The average mass will be the global opinion that still stay in this newsgroup, whatever you think it's good or not. Slow shift of the average happen, it's clearly normal that's how life works as a community. > We'll show their fuckin' asses what REAL simmers want. Tell me what *you* want rrevved. Try to change something, stop whining! Don't be another DGF, I know you have much more potential than that. :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:41:50 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I don't know what to say... in 15 years of Usenet discussions, I don't >think anyone has ever apologized to me or admitted they were wrong, >and you just did both - in one post. <G> > >I'm impressed. > I know, I broke the first two rules of usenet in one post. Never admit you are wrong and never apologize. I might be an asshole. But, I'm a humble asshole. :-) -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:04:24 -0700, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >If had BO I'd rather be told! BTW Nos, you smell ;0) You're right. I need a shower badly. -- Nos

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:45:53 GMT, mracer <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Corey, if you are more than 8 years old, you should be ashamed for writing so > >poorly. How do you survive in a world that requires at least a small amount of > >literacy? > > > >I have nothing against your opinions of NASCAR Heat, but I suggest you go back > >to school, get your ass in some English classes, and stop being so damn > >ignorant. > > Talk about ignorant. Sheesh! > -- > Nos

If had BO I'd rather be told! BTW Nos, you smell ;0)

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote: SNIP > You said that the die-Hard Sim >fans are getting smaller. SNIP I wish! I consider myself a die-hard sim fan and I've gained 15 pounds in the last year. /petern

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:06:42 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Tell me what *you* want rrevved. Try to change something, stop whining! >Don't be another DGF, I know you have much more potential than that. :) Please, one DGF in this universe is more than enough... Andre

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> wrote: >tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something in the >game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesome looking >tracks. What don't you like about NH? I really love the driving model. To me it feels as though I am really behind the wheel, just the way the car "feels". It is hard to describe (at least for me) The way the car behaves when it wrecks seems way out of wack though. (just does some strange things) and yes the lack of yellows and damage are a problem that need to be fixed. Still I doubt I can go back to N3. Maybe in a few more weeks I'll be able to nit pick NH apart, but for now I'm holding hope they can fix the problems that bother me. (the hell with the rest of you) <G> No doubt I'll be getting N4, but Papy isn't without their faults as well. N99 was a friggin joke, and never even should of been released. I never returned a game so fast in my life as I did with N99. Andy Please use [email hidden] for all email replies

Joe-- Yu dun tuk th wirds rite owt uv my mowf! Beside the fact that the logic of that post (what I could understand of it...) was sheer rubbish, that has to be the single worst-written example of the failure of the educational system that I've ever seen in this forum, and this forum has some of the most godawful writing on UseNet (alt.politics.guns being probably the absolute bottom of the barrel -- no pun intended). I shudder for the future of Western civiilization... BB Joe Marques wrote: > > The pathetic writing ability aside, this post is bullsh#t...

rrevved wrote: > AMEN. A 339-word repost for a one-word reply? Gee whiz... BB

Good points rrevved, and I agree. It's been a while since I was involved in flight sims, but I remember well the participation on the flight sim newsgroup by the folks from Janes, and was always impressed with the communication that went on between the developers and customers. Sadly, those days seem to be slipping by. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:09:14 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I don't think many people, outside of this newsgroup, put much weight > >in the driving model. The damage model is much more important to most > >people. > > BUT, there are quite a few 'regulars' here in this ng bashing NH > for damage modeling, savegame, etc., even though it has a > -very- advanced physics model. They are refusing to buy it, making > long posts about how fucked up the developer/publisher is and > generally trying to turn people off to NH. They call it an 'arcade' > game right to the developer's face. When questioned, they say they > have a right to their opinion, etc., which of course they do. If you > want to see a -really- pathetic display of developer-bashing, > head over to the Hasbro forum: > > http://www.delphi.com/nascarheat/ > > Quite a mess, huh? > > I am predicting a day of reckoning for racing 'sims'. > > It will be a similar disaster as when the day of reckoning happened > in hardcore flight sims. The companies that produce(d) most of them > are out of business or redirected to more profitable enterprises. > > Janes, iMagic, Looking Glass, Microprose, etc., etc, are history. > They don't exist in the sim industry anymore. > > Gone. > > Poof. > > Also, the rancor being displayed at Ed, Dan and NH is > unprecedented in this ng and the web forums, with the > possible exception of the last developer who dared poke > his head in here during the M$:CPR fiasco. > > I guess we showed his 'arcade game' ass where to go, huh? > > Aren't we proud? > > This newsgroup is taking up far too much of my time, and it's > my fault for believing that intelligent discussion about our > supposed hobby could be something that would overpower > the need to trash the latest 'sim'. Also, the downfall of sims > and their developers is not something I want to witness. Again. > > It's a God-damned shame, and it's getting worse every day. > > So all you people with an 'opinion' as to why NH or GP3 or > Any-Damn-Thing-But-GPL(tm) is an 'arcade game' and a failure, > carry on! Keep on spreading your hatred for anything else. > > Make your comments LOUD and your threads L-O-N-G. > > We'll show their fuckin' asses what REAL simmers want. >

[email hidden] wrote: > >...not to mention rude. Bwaaaahhhaahhaaahhaaahhahhahahahahahahaha! Somebody pinch me, I *must* be dreaming! BB

ymenard wrote: > Let's say we have a group that bashes a game that clearly has problems with the physics model... Frankie-- You may find this hard to believe coming from me, but that was an excellent post (barring a few minor syntactical slippages), but when you got to this point: > If the curb becomes too leptokurtic ... I went scrambling for the dictionary. Hokey smoke, Bullwinkle! Thank heaven for Mathworld's glossary (not that I remotely understand the term any better, but at least I know what *field* we're in!). You never fail to surprise me, in one way or another... BB

You caught me, you're right. My apologies to the original poster. My insults were unnecessary. NH is making us all weird ;-). -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:38:26 GMT, "Joe Marques" > <Joe"NO_SPAM"[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >The pathetic writing ability aside, > > Why put down someones writing ability Joe? It is irrelevant, not to > mention rude. NH is making you weird. > -- > Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:16:16 +0100, "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote: >weird.. I thought it was crap just because it had no savegame... weird how >these things get confused... even now I scroll down and those now praising >were "Not going to buy..." > >weird weird weird... Don't be a wiseass, Tim.

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> >I don't know what to say... in 15 years of Usenet discussions, I don't > >think anyone has ever apologized to me or admitted they were wrong, > >and you just did both - in one post. <G> > > > >I'm impressed. > > > > I know, I broke the first two rules of usenet in one post. Never admit > you are wrong and never apologize. I might be an asshole. But, I'm a > humble asshole. :-) > Nos

I was wrong about you Nos and I'm sorry. I thought you were a ego-driven techmeister. But now I see the light and I will CHANGE my opinions to match.(there -- breaking 3 laws in one post) :> dave henrie

"> Someone took a "wishlist" survey a while back for features in N4, and > to my astonishment, the most requested feature was the ability to > drive their car onto victory lane. Animated pit crew came in second. Well in my case, after being thoroughly humbled by GPL. My "wish" would be to drive into Victory Lane also...but only after winning of course...:) dave henrie

I seemed to have left the flight sim arena about the same time Andy Hollis got re-shuffled out of the the Skunk Works. You are right, developers participating in this newsgroup, really is to our advantage. dave henrie "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_aaq5.8381$[email hidden]...

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> Good points rrevved, and I agree. > It's been a while since I was involved in flight sims, but I remember well > the participation on the flight sim newsgroup by the folks from Janes, and > was always impressed with the communication that went on between the > developers and customers. > Sadly, those days seem to be slipping by. > > -- > Don Burnette

Dear Yves, I don't understand why you feel obliged to respond to a simple post about market dynamics with a personal attack. I'm at a loss in responding since you've apparently missed the entire point of the initial post. I believe that you're probably french-canadian so I'll make some allowances for that. Since you think the cost of things is irrelevant, I'd be happy to offer you $1 sight-unseen for your house. For some reason, though, I imagine someone with the level of business accumen you exhibit as more af a renting type. On the initial topic, feel free to return the product as long as you understand two things: 1. There are some moral implications of getting several hours of enjoyment from an entertainment product then returning it. If you think the movie comparison is naive, woudl you prefer 3 music CDs? Only you can assign the relative value of these things. I certainly wasn't commenting on the price of NH in comparison to other PC games as they're all typically in the $40 range. 2. Odds of future products in this genre will be ever-so-slightly diminished. This is especially true since the volume numbers for console games are dramatically higher than for serious PC games. Regards, Scott "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%Z1q5.1299$[email hidden]...

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> "Scott Pritchett" <[email hidden]> wrote > > People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine program like > Nascar > > Heat because they dislike a few things about it > > > LOL... that's "your" opinion. For somebody a few things might be essential > elements he wants to have in the game that his own money, the money he > worked for will spend. If those elements aren't featured or are lacking in > quality, then it's quite a good reason to return it. > > Also saying that a game is cheap is an excuse. We should never judge things > by what they cost. It's irrelevant. A company that sells things less/more > expensive than others shouldn't care less about the quality of it's product. > Not saying that NH is bad, not at all. But to say "well dude it's like just > 4-5movie trips" is naive. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

Scott, I read your initial post and it has changed my plans for NH. I originally was going to pass on purchasing it but can see that the money spent today on Heat may be a good investment towards the future creation of my version of a perfect sim. If Hasbro can't make money on Heat then we run the real risk of having a market that cannot support racing sims in general, and the realistic sims we here as RAS crave, perhaps not at all. I know there are many who will find this idea absurd and who will demand each release be just right, but as an analogy think of the automotive industry. The future of cars belongs to alternative power i.e. fuel cells and hybrids. Purchasing today's cars however, allows the car makers the funds and the ability to research and develop the cars of the future. For me, purchasing NH today, even though it is flawed in my mind, will provide hours of inexpensive entertainment while I await the fuel cell of the racing sim world. Are you listening Tony? Chris? Larry Scott Pritchett wrote:

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> > Dear Yves, > > I don't understand why you feel obliged to respond to a simple post about > market dynamics with a personal attack. I'm at a loss in responding since > you've apparently missed the entire point of the initial post. I believe > that you're probably french-canadian so I'll make some allowances for that. > Since you think the cost of things is irrelevant, I'd be happy to offer you > $1 sight-unseen for your house. For some reason, though, I imagine someone > with the level of business accumen you exhibit as more af a renting type. > > On the initial topic, feel free to return the product as long as you understand > two things: > 1. There are some moral implications of getting several hours of enjoyment > from an entertainment product then returning it. If you think the movie > comparison is naive, woudl you prefer 3 music CDs? Only you can assign > the relative value of these things. I certainly wasn't commenting on the > price of NH in comparison to other PC games as they're all typically in > the $40 range. > > 2. Odds of future products in this genre will be ever-so-slightly diminished. > This is especially true since the volume numbers for console games are > dramatically higher than for serious PC games. > > Regards, > Scott > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%Z1q5.1299$[email hidden]... > > "Scott Pritchett" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > People who enjoy racing and racing games who return a fine program like > > Nascar > > > Heat because they dislike a few things about it > > > > > > LOL... that's "your" opinion. For somebody a few things might be essential > > elements he wants to have in the game that his own money, the money he > > worked for will spend. If those elements aren't featured or are lacking in > > quality, then it's quite a good reason to return it. > > > > Also saying that a game is cheap is an excuse. We should never judge things > > by what they cost. It's irrelevant. A company that sells things less/more > > expensive than others shouldn't care less about the quality of it's product. > > Not saying that NH is bad, not at all. But to say "well dude it's like just > > 4-5movie trips" is naive. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > >

hehehehehe Has to be one of the most IGNORANT ng posts of all time! I quoted the message and he tells ME to go back to grammar school... HAHAHAHAHA "mracer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Corey, if you are more than 8 years old, you should be ashamed for writingso > poorly. How do you survive in a world that requires at least a smallamount of > literacy? > > I have nothing against your opinions of NASCAR Heat, but I suggest you goback

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> to school, get your ass in some English classes, and stop being so damn > ignorant. > > > > Corey West wrote: > > > I quote > > > > "Ed, I was going to post on the post about Good first try, but . . . . . > > But this kinda sent a chill in me. Your respose has, what I beleive put

some > > nails in the so called Heat coffin. > > Let me explain some of my comments from you. You said that the die-HardSim > > fans are getting smaller. I disageee 100% with that statement. Wonderwhy > > nascar is the fastest growing sport in the world. Wonder why Nascar fans > > will but till they have no more money at the tracks. Wonder why TVbought > > the rights to Nascar for billions of dollars. Wonder why sponsers willpay > > over 10 million dpllars to sponser a car. > > Because Nascar is a great sport that their fans support will all their > > heart. Now, also in your post you also pretty much said, we made thegame as > > arcadish as possible to try a please the hard-sim fans, but we were asecond > > thought when plans were drawn up for Heat. Again another nail to thecoffin. > > Ed you and Dan have done a great job selling this game, but I'm sure you > > will get a list of return that were issued out from stores that had totake > > them back. I'm sure they will be high. > > I do not even know what N4 will have in it, but I want to thank Papy for > > trying their hardest to please us so called die- hard sim fans. > > I just want Hasbro to look back and see how many have bought all thenascar > > sim games Papy made, some which you yourself was invovled with, wealways > > kept coming back each and every year to get the new one, even if therewas > > only small inprovements. > > We the die-hard fans supported each and every game,and we will supportN4 > > will as much excitement as we did for Heat. The only differance will bePapy > > knows we want a Nascar simulation as close to possible as possible. Nowthat > > might reach our goal or demands that we want, but you can beat yourbottom > > dollar, we will get N5, N6 ,N7 and so on, because sad to say Papy stillhas > > the only real nascar sim for us "the dieing breed" that on the market. > > I just hope you do well with Heat, but it will be for the very youngthat > > will be introduced to nascar, but will later on turn their attention to > > Papy's game for they would of have grow up and wanted more, than abeginners > > game. > > I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I have > > tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find something inthe > > game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesomelooking > > tracks. > > Just a final thought here, as I read my forum I know most if not all of > > those that come and post at the forum and 70% of then are still under20, > > and they can't see anything that will keep them from buying N4 andstaying > > with that game instead of Heat, you see the young also want a true tolife > > game ans want to race as thou they are really racing in a nascar race.So if > > your marketing group has said we are a dieing breed, I suggest theystart > > looking for a new job, or profession because they have under estimatedour

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> > love for this sport called Nascar. > > Rocket > > www.High-Compression.com" > > > > My NH will be going back 1st thing Monday. Nascar 4 can't get here soon > > enough!! >

"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > You may find this hard to believe coming from me, but that was an > excellent post (barring a few minor syntactical slippages), but when you > got to this point: Well I always try to elevate the quality of my English sentence structure on a daily base. Normally if the message was posted *after* midnight, the quality will suffer as it was done at the end of the day when I'm quite tired and my eyes start to itch. > >If the curb becomes too leptokurtic ... > > I went scrambling for the dictionary. Hokey smoke, Bullwinkle! Thank > heaven for Mathworld's glossary (not that I remotely understand the term > any better, but at least I know what *field* we're in!). You never fail > to surprise me, in one way or another... Thanks, that's what a couple of wasted marketing and logical statistics class will do to your brain ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Corey West wrote:

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> > hehehehehe > > Has to be one of the most IGNORANT ng posts of all time! > > I quoted the message and he tells ME to go back to grammar school... > > HAHAHAHAHA

So who wrote that pile of incoherent crap then?

"Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote > All good points, Ed. Maybe some people are afraid that if another game > is accepted as a quality sim, it will somehow lower the value of the > two plus years they have invested in GPL and their GPL rank. Oh c'mon Tracey, your starting to sound like BHMS member and/or Don Wilshe who see such machiavellian plots in every action of the community. It's quite amusing that this whole thing happened multiple times in the past, before and after GPL was released. GPL Rank? That thing wasn't in our minds a couple of months ago, and the whole fuss about GPL being superior to everything was still apparent before it. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > You are right, developers participating in this newsgroup, really is to > our advantage. Even Derek Smart, PhD? ;-P -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Michael, > Not really, what we don't want is another racing game that doesn't > include full featured physics (which then would erode our drivingand > racing skills -- not our GPL skills). We enjoy GPL for its richnessin > physics and feedback which require us to use our driving and racing > skills. Which is why N2/3 is so flat compared to GPL. NH inhardcore > mode is only somewhat flat compared to GPL. Which is why (at themoment > at least, I enjoy NH). I agree with you, I found it almost painful to go backwards and play N2 after GPL was released, and even N3 later on, but to a lesser degree. Now that I've played a NASCAR sim (NH) with 6 DOF, there is no way I can go backwards to N3. There are some people that won't even go sideways though, let alone backwards. I think there have been several excellent racing games released recently that have been trashed here on RAS simply for not being GPL. DTR, NFS:Porsche, Rally Masters, F1 2000 (though this one got trashed for not being GP3 <G>), and now NH are good examples. I wouldn't include you in the "we" group that isn't willing to give these other games a chance, since you are obviously giving NH a fair shake.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mShq5.201337$[email hidden]... > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > You are right, developers participating in this newsgroup, really isto > > our advantage. > > > Even Derek Smart, PhD? ;-P > OUCH! He takes a broadside :> dh

he's talking about the way the damage model is, in relation to car performance, not the way it looks. David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I think the damage model ROCKS. You just have to enable Vertex Damage -and have

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> an 866Mhz processor ;) > > --David Cook > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote... > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:25 GMT, "Corey West" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > > > >I'm speaking for myself not as part of High-Compression in whole. I

have > > >tried Heat, and trust me I have had tried very hard to find somethingin the > > >game to say I will keep it, but I can't other than you have awesomelooking

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> > >tracks. > > > > How about the driving model? Come on, the game/sim deserves a bit more > > credit than you give it. Apart from the damage model, too infrequent > > yellow flags and an in-game save feature I find little to fault NH > > for. Actually, I find the driving model exceptional. Why don't you? > > -- > > Nos > > > >

"Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> wrote > I do honestly believe that there is a small but vocal minority here > that would prefer that there were no other racing games than GPL. Well if you want to discuss then let's do it <vbg>. You always seem to throw vague comment on such things... "a small minority". I know I do this also. Name those people. If you feel they exist, then you know who they are. So name them. Who are they? If you can't name them, to my eyes they don't exist as anybody could say such comment. Like what DGF does :) > There are those who just refuse to play anything that isn't "equal to > GPL", which I think is a silly way to go through life. That's my way of thinking, but you haven't seen me plow down NH much. I appreciate how close it is to GPL, and how developpers should continue to go towards the best possible simulation they can do out of their developing time. But I do race N3 also, since for me nothing has at the moment the powerful online community tools that it has. > If I had refused ever be with a woman who wasn't as beautiful as the > girlfriend I had when I was in Panama, I would have missed out on a > lot of good times, not to mention the birth of my son. Some people don't have time for multiple racing sims. You know, not everybody has a big ammount of time to devote to virtual reality motorsports. 1 or 2 title is all they want, like me. 99% of my simracing time is at the moment devoted to GPL or N3. If a title is better to my eyes (first for the game engine and the second for it's multiplayer), then it will replace one of them. That's why I'm returning NH, and why I didn't buy F1 2000. They might be good, but not enough for me. I can't create time for 3 titles. There is so many of us like that. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Tracey A Miller wrote: > I do honestly believe that there is a small but vocal minority here > that would prefer that there were no other racing games than GPL. Well, let's ask 'em ... and I'd bet: A) You could easily count the number of people who "would prefer that there were no other racing games than GPL" on the fingers of one of Mickey Mouse's hands, and B) Given their small (and quite possibly nonexistent) numbers, this "vocal minority" has about as much influence on the gaming community/publishers as a fart has on a hurricane Will all those who "would prefer that there were no other racing games than GPL" please signify your presence? BB

Frank, > Name those people. If you feel they exist, then you know who they > are. So name them. Who are they? All that would do is turn our discussion into an argument, and I don't like to argue - at least not on a keyboard. <G> > They might be good, but not enough for me. I can't create time for3 > titles. There is so many of us like that. In my opinion, if you don't have a lot of time to devote to "virtual reality motorsports", then GPL isn't the game for you - I know it isn't the right game for me, being married with children. With NH, you can jump in and turn laps, race - have fun. With GPL, if you get busy or get away from it for a while, it's like starting all over again with the steep learning curve. You know, maybe that's why some GPL enthusiasts aren't anxious for new racing games. Perhaps they recognize that if they indulge in another sim for a while, their GPL skills might erode.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:16:16 +0100, "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >weird.. I thought it was crap just because it had no savegame... I never said the above. If you think otherwise then show me where I said it. I did say I won't buy it because it doesn't have a save game feature, but I am allowed to change my mind. No? -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:31:51 GMT, Barton Brown <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Bwaaaahhhaahhaaahhaaahhahhahahahahahahaha! Somebody pinch me, I *must* >be dreaming! > >BB Don't you just love irony? :-) -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:25:47 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > I was wrong about you Nos and I'm sorry. I thought you were a ego-driven >techmeister. But now I see the light and I will CHANGE my opinions to >match.(there -- breaking 3 laws in one post) :> >dave henrie > > I'm sure you're opinion of me will sway the other way one of these days so don't think too highly of me just yet. :-) I'm definatley not an egotist though, even if some may think so. I just a have a twisted sense of humour. -- Nos

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:05:00 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >he's talking about the way the damage model is, in relation to car >performance, not the way it looks. Correct. I will see a message saying aero damage if I hit the wall etc., but my car still performs the same. -- Nos

[email hidden] wrote: > > Don't you just love irony? :-) Ironically, yes! BB

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 03:41:50 -0500, "Tracey A Miller" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >I don't know what to say... in 15 years of Usenet discussions, I don't > >think anyone has ever apologized to me or admitted they were wrong, > >and you just did both - in one post. <G> > > > >I'm impressed. > > > > I know, I broke the first two rules of usenet in one post. Never admit > you are wrong and never apologize. I might be an asshole. But, I'm a > humble asshole. :-)

Hmm, guess I was wrong too then, about the punk thing I mean....do I see a group hug coming ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:58:48 -0500 Tracey A Miller <[email hidden]> wrote: % In my opinion, if you don't have a lot of time to devote to "virtual % reality motorsports", then GPL isn't the game for you - I know it % isn't the right game for me, being married with children. % With NH, you can jump in and turn laps, race - have fun. With GPL, if % you get busy or get away from it for a while, it's like starting all % over again with the steep learning curve. % You know, maybe that's why some GPL enthusiasts aren't anxious for new % racing games. Perhaps they recognize that if they indulge in another % sim for a while, their GPL skills might erode. Not really, what we don't want is another racing game that doesn't include full featured physics (which then would erode our driving and racing skills -- not our GPL skills). We enjoy GPL for its richness in physics and feedback which require us to use our driving and racing skills. Which is why N2/3 is so flat compared to GPL. NH in hardcore mode is only somewhat flat compared to GPL. Which is why (at the moment at least, I enjoy NH). -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:54:04 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Hmm, guess I was wrong too then, about the punk thing I mean....do I see >a group hug coming ? :-) Only if they are female. I don't see nay here so I guess not. -- Nos