Re: NASCAR Heat--The good, the bad, the ugly

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Bernardo <[email hidden]> writes: >Having a cable connection, things went pretty well with multiplayer. >The car antics of warped drivers is funny and very often >unpredictable. But it was a nice experience, though certainly light >years away from what Papy does online. Looking at both GP3 and NH, it >looks as if someone does not know how to get multiplayer working >optimally. Didn't someone say before that 56K modems are NOT supported? If you have a cable modem and get warps, I have no confidence in my 56K. Won't be able to get higher speed for a while, either... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +51.31 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Got Nascar Heat this afternoon and have been playing it ever since. Mostly multiplayer, but a good chuck of single player offline as well. So here's my opinions on the game at the present. Multiplayer is a bit of a let down, but single player is very well done, with a few exceptions. I'll get to those in minute. But first...... The Good-- Beat the Heat is very fresh and a welcome idea. Much fun can be had here for hours if your not careful. I've only completed a few of the challenges so far, but I've spent much time on just those few. Good job guys at MGI for implementing this. It's an "arcady" feature(gasp-I said the evil word), but a fun one nevertheless. The physics and car dynamics feel great. This car can be a handful to drive no doubt. Take a few laps around The Glen and feel that weight shift around violently. It's really a blast to drive. Can be difficult, but still a blast. The tracks are very nicely done. I've only visited about half so far, but they are all very satisfying. The garage also seems to be modeled well too. A setup guru can have a field day with this. Unfortunately that's one thing I'm not. So any help would be appreciated ;) The AI has it's ups and downs. First, they don't seem to be that good at qualifying. I got the pole in my first race, albeit Richmond were I got practice with the demo, but with it set on Hard. I woulda hoped for some competition but Jarret got second and was half a second off. But the racing AI is pretty decent. They are very racey at times, moreso later in the race when the money's on the line, and can be tough to get by cleanly. They seem to be "able" to make mistakes more than other titles I've raced as well. That gives them a little more "human" quality. The tire/fuel wear factor that you can change is also another idea that was nice to see implemented. It was in SCGT and was a nice feature there. Bumping it up to 4x makes for some very interesting strategies in a medium length race. Like I said, the single player version of the game is great for the most part. But there are a few flaws. Some minor, some major. First the minor. The Bad-- When selecting the length of a race, you are limited in the increments you can use. You can choose from 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75 and 100%. You can't set say, a 30 or 40% race if you want. You can set difficulty level in single percentages, and you can set pack size by single percentages, not sure why you can't set race distance that way. Some of the sounds are just plain horrible. Not sure where that sound for the backfire came from, but it sounds like someone closing the lid on one of those little metal milk containers you get in some older diners when you order coffee. The engine sounds a little weak to me, maybe just me who knows, but it doesn't sound like a monster V8 running at 8000 or so rpms. There is a huge blind spot with the stock mirrors(It's possible you might be able to change the values for them in a file somewhere, I haven't delved that far in yet). And the spotter seems reluctant to give information about traffic. Around you, and ahead of you. He gives the standard "car low" or "car high" but seems to slack off if the battle for position continues for more than a lap or so. I raced side by side with Rusty Wallace at Richmond for about 6 laps. The spotter mentioned he was there, low, but only for the first 2 laps or so. Then he sorta "forgot" I was still racing him I guess, and I didn't hear a word until he told me I was clear after finally making the pass stick. Half the time I had no real idea where he was because of the blind spot, and the "lazy spotter". I haven't heard any warnings about wrecks on the track yet, so not sure if it exists. Would be nice to know if there are 2 cars tangled in turn 3, and where the open spot is, before I get there and see for myself. There is not a double F2 like function ala N3. You can't see everyone's position on the track relative to yours in real time. You can only see the distance of the few guys around you on the leaderboard. Martin is 5 seconds back, Jarret 6.5 and so on. But you can't see if there is a lapped car ahead or behind like you could in N3 by looking at F2 display. Example--Running 3rd about 4 seconds behind 2nd place and 8 seconds behind the leader, yet you see 2 cars battling in the distance. You know one of them is the 2nd place driver, but you can't tell who the other driver is and you know it's not the leader, because he's 4 seconds ahead of that battle. Would be nice to know who's ahead me other than just the same lap cars. The Ugly-- The damage model is very passive to say the least. Like someone said earlier, it's possible to do a barrel roll, slide on your roof, and then get uprighted and set a best lap time. Not very realistic. Then when you do pit and have "repair damage" selected "yes", it doesn't *appear* to fix it. My pitstop takes no extra time, and the visual damage is not repaired or even changed. Not sure if the dynamic damage is repaired or not. I leave the pits, looking the same as I did when I came in. It is nearly impossible to get the yellow flag in a race. You need to be basically blocking the entire track(after wrecking a few others) for one to finally come out. They are not even close to being realistic. Everyone knows NASCAR is caution happy<g> Not sure how you would get a Black Flag in this game either. You can't speed on pitroad. Even if you drive pitlane manually, it won't let you go over the limit. You can't jump the start, the computer controls your car. If a caution is all but impossible to get, you must be doing some bad shit to be seeing a black flag. The lack of car control time (Pace lap, Pit Road, End of race) all make it more "disconnected" feeling. Multiplayer-- Most of the issues(good, bad, and ugly) mentioned above apply to multiplayer as well-- Physics, Damage, Car Control Time, and the rest. But it also suffers from other problems as well. Fixed setups. You can run an "identical car" setup race. Where everyone uses the same setup. But it's not a universal "fixed" setup that people can practice offline if they choose. It's whatever the current host has loaded as his setup. So you race the hosts current setup, clearly this will give them the advantage since they have more than likely practiced with it in the past, where as you might be driving it for the first time. There is NO ability to turn on yellow flags in multiplayer. You apparently must race without them. An absolutely horrible omission. That and the lack of exact control of race lengths is gonna put a major cramp in league racing me thinks. If there is anyone in your race with a less than desirable ping, it is very common that the cars will wreck while on the pace lap under the computer control. It can easily end a race for many drivers before it even starts. I have been slammed into and rolled on pace laps waiting for the start of the race. The green flag drops and my car is physically tore to hell, and I have no shot at a decent run. Very frustrating. And even more frustrating is restarting 6 times waiting for that one good start so everyone can race. When cars warp, let me tell you, they WARP. In very weird ways. If a driver is racing in front of you with a mildly high ping, it is not uncommon to see him or her "bouncing" up and down on the track. I have even seen a car leap sideways *over* another car and take the position while neither wrecked. If there are drivers with a higher ping than that, they actually can be seen driving sideways 20 feet above you in a transparent ghost car. Some very strange stuff indeed. There are no practice sessions in multiplayer either. You either launch right to qual or right to the race. No pre qual practice and no "happy hour" or warm-up session. The game says 16 players can connect, but A. I only see room for 8 names in the player list in the lobby. And B. If 16 people were racing they would need to be on a LAN. I just don't see it being do-able even with everyone on high speed access like cable or DSL. I found the best race was with 4 of us connected via cable to a cable host. The warp was minimum, and the racing was fun and -fairly- clean(we're all new to this <g>). We raced at Cali, Richmond, and The Glen, to get a full array of tracks, and it was fun for the most part the entire time. But the shortcomings in Multiplayer outweigh the fun factor for me. If you could implement Heat's Physics, Track layouts(with the selection we have in N3), AI, and Beat the Heat feature into N3 you would have a very nice sim. But it falls short of expectations. I will continue to play Heat, it's good enough to have fun with, no doubt. But N3 is where I will be doing my serious online racing(league, and invite) for now. Heat Multiplayer will be reserved when I need a little "shits and giggles" or a break from N3. Disclaimer(need one these days<g>)--The above is in no way meant to imply the following. I am bashing NASCAR Heat I am calling Ed a liar I am kissing Papyrus's ass I have my tongue up Ed's ass. That I'm a "whiner" Or that it's the beta testers fault(For you B Tate)

On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:48:23 GMT, S_Hoffner <[email hidden]> wrote: >Got Nascar Heat this afternoon and have been playing it ever since. >Mostly multiplayer, but a good chuck of single player offline as well. >So here's my opinions on the game at the present. Multiplayer is a bit >of a let down, but single player is very well done, with a few >exceptions. I'll get to those in minute. But first...... > Say, that was a nice little review (and notice, folks, that I didn't quote the complete post, as some are fondly lazy of doing, only to make a five-word reply). I did do a little multiplayer last night and was disappointed that there was no practice session. I like the fact that I can host a race and then run some laps alone, until someone comes. The way Heat has it now you have to sit in the lobby and wait, and once a you start no one else can join. Having a cable connection, things went pretty well with multiplayer. The car antics of warped drivers is funny and very often unpredictable. But it was a nice experience, though certainly light years away from what Papy does online. Looking at both GP3 and NH, it looks as if someone does not know how to get multiplayer working optimally. Alanb

The omission of Yellow Flags sticks out the most to me. Hmm.... "S_Hoffner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Got Nascar Heat this afternoon and have been playing it ever since. > Mostly multiplayer, but a good chuck of single player offline as well. > So here's my opinions on the game at the present. Multiplayer is a bit > of a let down, but single player is very well done, with a few > exceptions. I'll get to those in minute. But first...... > > The Good-- > > Beat the Heat is very fresh and a welcome idea. Much fun can be had > here for hours if your not careful. I've only completed a few of the > challenges so far, but I've spent much time on just those few. Good job > guys at MGI for implementing this. It's an "arcady" feature(gasp-I said > the evil word), but a fun one nevertheless. > The physics and car dynamics feel great. This car can be a handful to > drive no doubt. Take a few laps around The Glen and feel that weight > shift around violently. It's really a blast to drive. Can be difficult, > but still a blast. The tracks are very nicely done. I've only visited > about half so far, but they are all very satisfying. The garage also > seems to be modeled well too. A setup guru can have a field day with > this. Unfortunately that's one thing I'm not. So any help would be > appreciated ;) > The AI has it's ups and downs. First, they don't seem to be that good > at qualifying. I got the pole in my first race, albeit Richmond were I > got practice with the demo, but with it set on Hard. I woulda hoped for > some competition but Jarret got second and was half a second off. But > the racing AI is pretty decent. They are very racey at times, moreso > later in the race when the money's on the line, and can be tough to get > by cleanly. They seem to be "able" to make mistakes more than other > titles I've raced as well. That gives them a little more "human" > quality. The tire/fuel wear factor that you can change is also another > idea that was nice to see implemented. It was in SCGT and was a nice > feature there. Bumping it up to 4x makes for some very interesting > strategies in a medium length race. Like I said, the single player > version of the game is great for the most part. But there are a few > flaws. Some minor, some major. First the minor. > > The Bad-- > > When selecting the length of a race, you are limited in the increments > you can use. You can choose from 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75 and 100%. > You can't set say, a 30 or 40% race if you want. You can set difficulty > level in single percentages, and you can set pack size by single > percentages, not sure why you can't set race distance that way. Some of > the sounds are just plain horrible. Not sure where that sound for the > backfire came from, but it sounds like someone closing the lid on one of > those little metal milk containers you get in some older diners when you > order coffee. The engine sounds a little weak to me, maybe just me who > knows, but it doesn't sound like a monster V8 running at 8000 or so > rpms. > There is a huge blind spot with the stock mirrors(It's possible you > might be able to change the values for them in a file somewhere, I > haven't delved that far in yet). And the spotter seems reluctant to give > information about traffic. Around you, and ahead of you. He gives the > standard "car low" or "car high" but seems to slack off if the battle > for position continues for more than a lap or so. I raced side by side > with Rusty Wallace at Richmond for about 6 laps. The spotter mentioned > he was there, low, but only for the first 2 laps or so. Then he sorta > "forgot" I was still racing him I guess, and I didn't hear a word until > he told me I was clear after finally making the pass stick. Half the > time I had no real idea where he was because of the blind spot, and the > "lazy spotter". I haven't heard any warnings about wrecks on the track > yet, so not sure if it exists. Would be nice to know if there are 2 cars > tangled in turn 3, and where the open spot is, before I get there and > see for myself. There is not a double F2 like function ala N3. You can't > see everyone's position on the track relative to yours in real time. You > can only see the distance of the few guys around you on the leaderboard. > Martin is 5 seconds back, Jarret 6.5 and so on. But you can't see if > there is a lapped car ahead or behind like you could in N3 by looking at > F2 display. Example--Running 3rd about 4 seconds behind 2nd place and 8 > seconds behind the leader, yet you see 2 cars battling in the distance. > You know one of them is the 2nd place driver, but you can't tell who the > other driver is and you know it's not the leader, because he's 4 seconds > ahead of that battle. Would be nice to know who's ahead me other than > just the same lap cars. > > > The Ugly-- > > > The damage model is very passive to say the least. Like someone said > earlier, it's possible to do a barrel roll, slide on your roof, and then > get uprighted and set a best lap time. Not very realistic. Then when you > do pit and have "repair damage" selected "yes", it doesn't *appear* to > fix it. My pitstop takes no extra time, and the visual damage is not > repaired or even changed. Not sure if the dynamic damage is repaired or > not. I leave the pits, looking the same as I did when I came in. It is > nearly impossible to get the yellow flag in a race. You need to be > basically blocking the entire track(after wrecking a few others) for one > to finally come out. They are not even close to being realistic. > Everyone knows NASCAR is caution happy<g> Not sure how you would get a > Black Flag in this game either. You can't speed on pitroad. Even if you > drive pitlane manually, it won't let you go over the limit. You can't > jump the start, the computer controls your car. If a caution is all but > impossible to get, you must be doing some bad shit to be seeing a black > flag. The lack of car control time (Pace lap, Pit Road, End of race) all > make it more "disconnected" feeling. > > > > Multiplayer-- > > Most of the issues(good, bad, and ugly) mentioned above apply to > multiplayer as well-- Physics, Damage, Car Control Time, and the rest. > But it also suffers from other problems as well. Fixed setups. You can > run an "identical car" setup race. Where everyone uses the same setup. > But it's not a universal "fixed" setup that people can practice offline > if they choose. It's whatever the current host has loaded as his setup. > So you race the hosts current setup, clearly this will give them the > advantage since they have more than likely practiced with it in the > past, where as you might be driving it for the first time. There is NO > ability to turn on yellow flags in multiplayer. You apparently must race > without them. An absolutely horrible omission. That and the lack of > exact control of race lengths is gonna put a major cramp in league > racing me thinks. > If there is anyone in your race with a less than desirable ping, it is > very common that the cars will wreck while on the pace lap under the > computer control. It can easily end a race for many drivers before it > even starts. I have been slammed into and rolled on pace laps waiting > for the start of the race. The green flag drops and my car is physically > tore to hell, and I have no shot at a decent run. Very frustrating. And > even more frustrating is restarting 6 times waiting for that one good > start so everyone can race. > When cars warp, let me tell you, they WARP. In very weird ways. If a > driver is racing in front of you with a mildly high ping, it is not > uncommon to see him or her "bouncing" up and down on the track. I have > even seen a car leap sideways *over* another car and take the position > while neither wrecked. If there are drivers with a higher ping than > that, they actually can be seen driving sideways 20 feet above you in a > transparent ghost car. Some very strange stuff indeed. > There are no practice sessions in multiplayer either. You either launch > right to qual or right to the race. No pre qual practice and no "happy > hour" or warm-up session. The game says 16 players can connect, but A. I > only see room for 8 names in the player list in the lobby. And B. If 16 > people were racing they would need to be on a LAN. I just don't see it > being do-able even with everyone on high speed access like cable or DSL. > I found the best race was with 4 of us connected via cable to a cable > host. The warp was minimum, and the racing was fun and -fairly- > clean(we're all new to this <g>). We raced at Cali, Richmond, and The > Glen, to get a full array of tracks, and it was fun for the most part > the entire time. But the shortcomings in Multiplayer outweigh the fun > factor for me. If you could implement Heat's Physics, Track layouts(with > the selection we have in N3), AI, and Beat the Heat feature into N3 you > would have a very nice sim. But it falls short of expectations. I will > continue to play Heat, it's good enough to have fun with, no doubt. But > N3 is where I will be doing my serious online racing(league, and invite) > for now. Heat Multiplayer will be reserved when I need a little "shits > and giggles" or a break from N3. > > > > Disclaimer(need one these days<g>)--The above is in no way meant to > imply the following. > I am bashing NASCAR Heat > I am calling Ed a liar > I am kissing Papyrus's ass > I have my tongue up Ed's ass. > That I'm a "whiner" > Or that it's the beta testers fault(For you B Tate)

It's because he didn't turn the force pit speed limit option off. I did, makes it pretty hard. I'm staring at RPM's making them perfect then have to quick dart in to my pit. I love parking it just right as all the guys fly out to change your tires and refuel :) If NH's multiplayer is as good as Viper Racing's, I think it is pretty good, though I haven't tried multiplayer yet for myself. Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:48:23 GMT, S_Hoffner > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > There is a huge blind spot with the stock mirrors(It's possible you > >might be able to change the values for them in a file somewhere, I > >haven't delved that far in yet). > > I downloaded the settings from http://www.slottweak.com/ for the LWFF, > it also changes the mirror. From the readme: > It will increase the field of view (FOV) in the rear view mirror to > 130� instead of the stock 84. This will allow you to see the car > coming from behind and along side of you. They will be in your rear > view mirror even when you can see part of the car as it passes you. > > >Not sure how you would get a > >Black Flag in this game either. You can't speed on pitroad. Even if you > >drive pitlane manually, it won't let you go over the limit. > > Weird, I drive with pitlane manually, and get a black flag -every- > time for speeding in the pitlane :) > > Andre

On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:48:23 GMT, S_Hoffner <[email hidden]> wrote: > There is a huge blind spot with the stock mirrors(It's possible you >might be able to change the values for them in a file somewhere, I >haven't delved that far in yet). I downloaded the settings from http://www.slottweak.com/ for the LWFF, it also changes the mirror. From the readme: It will increase the field of view (FOV) in the rear view mirror to 130� instead of the stock 84. This will allow you to see the car coming from behind and along side of you. They will be in your rear view mirror even when you can see part of the car as it passes you. >Not sure how you would get a >Black Flag in this game either. You can't speed on pitroad. Even if you >drive pitlane manually, it won't let you go over the limit. Weird, I drive with pitlane manually, and get a black flag -every- time for speeding in the pitlane :) Andre

I don't see why you have to go into an options file to turn off automatic speed limiting. Alex Kihurani <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gpvp5.11566$[email hidden]... > It's because he didn't turn the force pit speed limit option off. I did, > makes it pretty hard. I'm staring at RPM's making them perfect then haveto > quick dart in to my pit. I love parking it just right as all the guys fly > out to change your tires and refuel :) > > If NH's multiplayer is as good as Viper Racing's, I think it is prettygood,

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> though I haven't tried multiplayer yet for myself. > Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:48:23 GMT, S_Hoffner > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > There is a huge blind spot with the stock mirrors(It's possible you > > >might be able to change the values for them in a file somewhere, I > > >haven't delved that far in yet). > > > > I downloaded the settings from http://www.slottweak.com/ for the LWFF, > > it also changes the mirror. From the readme: > > It will increase the field of view (FOV) in the rear view mirror to > > 130� instead of the stock 84. This will allow you to see the car > > coming from behind and along side of you. They will be in your rear > > view mirror even when you can see part of the car as it passes you. > > > > >Not sure how you would get a > > >Black Flag in this game either. You can't speed on pitroad. Even if you > > >drive pitlane manually, it won't let you go over the limit. > > > > Weird, I drive with pitlane manually, and get a black flag -every- > > time for speeding in the pitlane :) > > > > Andre >

S_Hoffner wrote the following review on NH... > Got Nascar Heat this afternoon and have been playing it ever since.====> Snip! (Sigh)...Guess I'll take my wife out to dinner with the forty bucks I had set aside for NH. Thanks for the review. :-( Jim "Pops" Tester [email hidden]

it would be for a computer newbie who just likes driving racing sims, and doesn't want to be treated like a little kid just because he's not any good at windows. rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:58:42 -0700, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I don't see why you have to go into an options file to turn off automatic > >speed limiting. > > > > Yeah, it's pretty complicated. > > >Alex Kihurani <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:gpvp5.11566$[email hidden]... > >> It's because he didn't turn the force pit speed limit option off. I

did, > >> makes it pretty hard. I'm staring at RPM's making them perfect thenhave > >to > >> quick dart in to my pit. I love parking it just right as all the guysfly > >> out to change your tires and refuel :) >