GTR MOMO FF Tweaks

Hi guys, Just thought I'd share this with you....It's the latest version of some tweaks made to the FF in GTR by one of the community's most respected FF gurus. I've been very critical of the FF in GTR but these settings have transformed it for me. They need to be inserted into your .PLR file replacing the existing lines. Don't go into the force menu in the game after you've done this or they will be reset to default. These should work well with 'MOMO Force' and 'MOMO Racing' wheels - not sure about others YMMV. Watch out for line wrapping - you may need to fix it up after pasting into your text editor. FFB Device Type="1" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel, 2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad. FFB Effects Level="5" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom. FFB Gain="0.95000" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0. FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis. FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis. FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.07000" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration. FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point). FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude). FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. FFB steer force average weight="0.95000" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency. FFB steer force exponent="0.70000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity. FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction). FFB steer force output max="1.60000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0 FFB steer force grip weight="0.70000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force. FFB steer force grip factor="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight. FFB steer update thresh="0.0001500000" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate. FFB steer friction coefficient="0.10000" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0 FFB steer damper coefficient="0.10000" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0 FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.40000" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50 FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point). FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude). FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0) FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency. FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point). FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude). FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0) FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.30000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect. FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.50000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev. FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.60000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5. FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.03500" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0) FFB jolt magnitude="1.30000" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

I forgot to add that it is recommended to disable 'Damping' and 'Centering Spring' (Set them at 0%) in the joystick control panel when using these FF settings. All other settings to default. Also, you should set 'speed sensitivity' in the game to 0% and X-axis sensitivity to 50% (at least no lower than 30%) If you get any 'oscillating' at high speed, you may need to reduce the steering lock in your car setup. Happy GTR ing!

Steve Simpson wrote: > I forgot to add that it is recommended to disable 'Damping' and'Centering > Spring' (Set them at 0%) in the joystick control panel when usingthese FF > settings. All other settings to default. Also, you should set'speed > sensitivity' in the game to 0% and X-axis sensitivity to 50% (atleast no > lower than 30%) If you get any 'oscillating' at high speed, you mayneed to > reduce the steering lock in your car setup. > > Happy GTR ing! Where are they from? Has he done the same for Act Labs wheels? Kendt

> Where are they from? Has he done the same for Act Labs wheels? http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=2245293&postcount=68 Hopefully they work with other wheels....maybe try it and let us know? (Just remember to backup your PLR file)

Thanks for posting, Steve. I tried Mr. Zoquis' settings, but reverted back to my original params. My main objections: he seems to have substituted generic feel for feel from the track. That is, the steering feels kinda numb, with little feedback from where the rubber meets the road. What little feel there is seems to come from his bizarre setting of 100% of Spring Effect from the Windows control applet, as if you were twisting a giant spring with the steering shaft. In the real world, the springiness in the steering comes from hysteresis (internal friction) in the rubber, like what makes a rubber ball bounce. (Well, that and the caster, which makes the steering lift up and tilt inward the outer tire in the turn; you are, in effect, "fighting" the suspension.) In a street car, this springiness is more or less constant, since most steering input is well within the envelope of the tire's grip (the well-known friction circle). That is, most decent (i.e., "sporty") street tires can generate 0.8 "G" of lateral acceleration, but most street driving is done at less than 0.3 "G" (if you drove around at 0.5 "G" your passengers would scream in terror and demand to be let out of the car). In a race car, however, you are--or should be--approaching the tire's limit of adhesion at every turn. In fact, with the front tires, you're usually going back and forth over "the line" in every turn (the slip angle varys more than the rear tire's unless yer steering input is preternaturally smooth). Racing slicks (a la GTR) tend to let go very suddenly, and with a good race car setup, you can distinctly feel it when the tire goes over the limit (it suddenly goes "dead," as if you were driving on ice). Why? Because you lose the self-aligning torque and the tire becomes, in effect, non-directional. When you have an artificial value providing a constant "self-aligning" torque (the spring centering), you lose the feel of what the tire is doing. So, IMO, the centering spring value should be much smaller (I'm using 15%) and the other values tweaked to be getting more from GTR and less from Windows. I'll post this on RSC, too. --Steve Smith "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Where are they from? Has he done the same for Act Labs wheels? > > http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=2245293&postcount=68 > > Hopefully they work with other wheels....maybe try it and let us know? > > (Just remember to backup your PLR file) > >

The FFB in GTR Demo 2.0 with my MOMO black couldn't be better. By far the most impressive FFB I have experienced. No adjustments necessary. Marc "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6y_Ud.42279$[email hidden]...

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> Thanks for posting, Steve. I tried Mr. Zoquis' settings, but reverted > back > to my original params. My main objections: he seems to have substituted > generic feel for feel from the track. > > That is, the steering feels kinda numb, with little feedback from where > the > rubber meets the road. What little feel there is seems to come from his > bizarre setting of 100% of Spring Effect from the Windows control applet, > as > if you were twisting a giant spring with the steering shaft. > > In the real world, the springiness in the steering comes from hysteresis > (internal friction) in the rubber, like what makes a rubber ball bounce. > (Well, that and the caster, which makes the steering lift up and tilt > inward > the outer tire in the turn; you are, in effect, "fighting" the > suspension.) > > In a street car, this springiness is more or less constant, since most > steering input is well within the envelope of the tire's grip (the > well-known friction circle). That is, most decent (i.e., "sporty") street > tires can generate 0.8 "G" of lateral acceleration, but most street > driving > is done at less than 0.3 "G" (if you drove around at 0.5 "G" your > passengers > would scream in terror and demand to be let out of the car). > > In a race car, however, you are--or should be--approaching the tire's > limit > of adhesion at every turn. In fact, with the front tires, you're usually > going back and forth over "the line" in every turn (the slip angle varys > more than the rear tire's unless yer steering input is preternaturally > smooth). Racing slicks (a la GTR) tend to let go very suddenly, and with > a > good race car setup, you can distinctly feel it when the tire goes over > the > limit (it suddenly goes "dead," as if you were driving on ice). Why? > Because you lose the self-aligning torque and the tire becomes, in effect, > non-directional. > > When you have an artificial value providing a constant "self-aligning" > torque (the spring centering), you lose the feel of what the tire is > doing. > > So, IMO, the centering spring value should be much smaller (I'm using 15%) > and the other values tweaked to be getting more from GTR and less from > Windows. > > I'll post this on RSC, too. > > --Steve Smith > > > "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> > Where are they from? Has he done the same for Act Labs wheels? >> >> http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=2245293&postcount=68 >> >> Hopefully they work with other wheels....maybe try it and let us know? >> >> (Just remember to backup your PLR file) >> >> > >

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> That is, the steering feels kinda numb, with little feedback from where > the > rubber meets the road. What little feel there is seems to come from his > bizarre setting of 100% of Spring Effect from the Windows control applet, > as > if you were twisting a giant spring with the steering shaft. > So, IMO, the centering spring value should be much smaller (I'm using 15%) > and the other values tweaked to be getting more from GTR and less from > Windows.

You seem a bit confused here...?? I can understand disabling 'Centering Spring' but the 'Spring Effect' is something that's controlled by the game for when it needs to do, well, a spring effect. The game can control the strength of the effects too. The real issue I have with the default FF settings in GTR is that it's virtually impossible to make small steering adjustments mid-corner. The FF forces you to move in very jerky increments unsettling the car. Maybe that's realistic for racing slicks on the limit - I'm not sure....but it means that I'm faster with FF turned off which can never be a good thing..... : (

Same rig as yours but I have a noticeable vibration in the wheel while just setting in the pits with your settings, that's as far as I got. I'll stick with mine....Low / 90%. DN "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi guys, > > Just thought I'd share this with you....It's the latest version of sometweaks > made to the FF in GTR by one of the community's most respected FF gurus. > I've been very critical of the FF in GTR but these settings havetransformed it for > me. They need to be inserted into your .PLR file replacing the existing > lines. Don't go into the force menu in the game after you've done this > or they will be reset to default. These should work well with 'MOMO > Force' and 'MOMO Racing' wheels - not sure about others YMMV. > > Watch out for line wrapping - you may need to fix it up after pasting intoyour text editor. > > FFB Device Type="1" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel,2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad. > FFB Effects Level="5" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects,1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom. > FFB Gain="0.95000" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to1.0. > FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttleaxis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis. > FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 =brake effects on steering axis. > FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.07000" // Controls frequency of steeringvibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering > vibration. > FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibrationat 0mph (reference point). > FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as afunction of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero > magnitude). > FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. > FFB steer force average weight="0.95000" // How much weight is given tonew steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). > Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also addlatency. > FFB steer force exponent="0.70000" // Steering force output "sensitivity".Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, > greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity. > FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 ifcontroller pulls in the wrong direction). > FFB steer force output max="1.60000" // Maximum force output of steeringforce, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0 > FFB steer force grip weight="0.70000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended:0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when > calculating steering force. > FFB steer force grip factor="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended:0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on > the steering weight. > FFB steer update thresh="0.0001500000" // Amount of change required toupdate steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering > force updated more frequently = lower frame rate. > FFB steer friction coefficient="0.10000" // Coefficient to use forsteering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 > FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use forsteering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0 > FFB steer damper coefficient="0.10000" // Coefficient to use for steeringdamper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 > FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use forsteering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0 > FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.40000" // Scales actual engine frequency toforce FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to > 0.50 > FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of enginevibration at 0rpm (reference point). > FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as afunction of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero > magnitude). > FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. > FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required toupdate throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0) > FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotationalfrequency to force feedback vibration frequency. > FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at0mph (reference point). > FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as afunction of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero > magnitude). > FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. > FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required toupdate brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0) > FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.30000" // How strong the rumble strip rumbleis. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect. > FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.50000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev. > FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine,1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. > FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.60000" // How strongly wheel pullsright/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested > range: -1.5 to 1.5. > FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.03500" // Amount of change required toupdate rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0) > FFB jolt magnitude="1.30000" // How strong jolts from other cars (orwalls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0. > >

Same rig as yours but I have a noticeable vibration in the wheel while just setting in the pits with your settings, that's as far as I got. I'll stick with mine....Low / 90%. DN 2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad. 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom. axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis. brake effects on steering axis. vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering at 0mph (reference point). function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, controller pulls in the wrong direction). force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0 damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0 steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0 force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to vibration at 0rpm (reference point). function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0) frequency to force feedback vibration frequency. 0mph (reference point). function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0) is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect. 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev. 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0) walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

> Same rig as yours but I have a noticeable vibration in the wheel while > just > setting in the pits with your settings, that's as far as I got. I'll stick > with mine....Low / 90%. <sigh> I suggest you hold your steering wheel next time you sit in a real car (especially a race car) and notice that there is a slight vibration when the engine is running. These settings model that brillinantly IMO. The default settings only vibrate the wheel when it's turning which is ludicrous really.

"Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Same rig as yours but I have a noticeable vibration in the wheel while > > just > > setting in the pits with your settings, that's as far as I got. I'llstick > > with mine....Low / 90%. > > <sigh> I suggest you hold your steering wheel next time you sit in a real > car (especially a race car) and notice that there is a slight vibrationwhen > the engine is running. These settings model that brillinantly IMO. The > default settings only vibrate the wheel when it's turning which isludicrous > really. The vibrating wheel is supposedly emulating engine torque? Hey, if you like it that's all that matters. DN

> The vibrating wheel is supposedly emulating engine torque? Hey, if you > like > it that's all that matters. Correct....and you'll notice that when you rev the engine the body moves on the suspension so engine torque is modelled in the game. I just found it strange that such a small thing (which is actually a neat feature) was enough for you to dismiss it.

> Just thought I'd share this with you....It's the latest version of sometweaks > made to the FF in GTR by one of the community's most respected FF gurus. > I've been very critical of the FF in GTR but these settings havetransformed it for > me. They need to be inserted into your .PLR file replacing the existing > lines. Don't go into the force menu in the game after you've done this > or they will be reset to default. These should work well with 'MOMO > Force' and 'MOMO Racing' wheels - not sure about others YMMV. Definitely a nice improvement as far as bump steer goes; it's not as crazy. I can still feel the impact from the bumps, but the car's much easier for me to control in bumpy braking zones (e.g. into La Source and the Bus Stop). I agree with Steve re:generic feel though. The steering doesn't really go light as the front tires give out. That is one of the things I really like in this demo. Perhaps I can work out a combination of the two and keep my favorite aspects. Also, I'm on a DFP with the 4.6 beta drivers, so my experience is likely a little different at the very least. I already went in and decreased gain to 0.9 due to the DFP's stronger FF. Alan

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:10:31 +1000, "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote something like:

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>> The vibrating wheel is supposedly emulating engine torque? Hey, if you >> like >> it that's all that matters. > >Correct....and you'll notice that when you rev the engine the body moves on >the suspension so engine torque is modelled in the game. I just found it >strange that such a small thing (which is actually a neat feature) was >enough for you to dismiss it.

The vibrating wheel isn't emulating engine torque, it's emulating the vibrations that the engine is causing to the cars body. I personally don't like it in FF effects, feels like holding a chain saw. And yes, engine torque is modelled in the game. If it wasn't the cars wouldn't move ;) -- - Jussi Koukku -

Jussi Koukku wrote: > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:10:31 +1000, "Steve Simpson"<[email hidden]> > wrote something like: > >>> The vibrating wheel is supposedly emulating engine torque?Hey, >>> if you like >>> it that's all that matters. >> >> Correct....and you'll notice that when you rev the engine thebody >> moves on the suspension so engine torque is modelled in thegame. >> I just found it strange that such a small thing (which isactually >> a neat feature) was enough for you to dismiss it. > > The vibrating wheel isn't emulating engine torque, it'semulating > the vibrations that the engine is causing to the cars body. I > personally don't like it in FF effects, feels like holding achain > saw. It's more like a buzzzzzz on my wheel. Anyone know which setting to change to reduce it? Otherwise I like these tweaks. Certainly better than stock. I might get tired with a 95% setting in the game and 100% settings in the Profiler, if the race was long. brrrrr > > And yes, engine torque is modelled in the game. If it wasn'tthe > cars wouldn't move ;)