GP3 vs F1-2000 - I`ve changed my mind, have you changed yours?.

I enjoy reading the posts that compare F1-2k to GP3, and I find it interesting how people that have tried both compare them. I like them both... though maybe "dislike" is the better word.... IMO they both have a lot to offer, but both fall well short of what I feel a modern F1 sim should be.... I know I`m not alone in this thought. That being said, I`m starting to like GP3 much more since doing some extensive back to back testing with F1-2k and I`ve found a few differences that [to me] stand out. I`m not going to get into other issues that are already well covered in this group.... My opinions on graphics/sound/AI/ interface, etc. are that I can live with them in both games, though they both have there ups and downs. What it comes down to for me now is what sim is more <fun> to play "overall", and for me most of that fun comes from the feel of driving the car. These are a few things I just noticed while doing back to back testing...anyone that has both sims installed should really try this (and post your thoughts) I was suprised at what I found. This is what I found: When I first tried GP3 I thought there was no doubt that I liked F1-2K more "overall". But I have started to do some indepth back to back testing, doing 25 laps at a track in GP3, then doing 25 laps at the same track in F1-2K, then another set of 25 + 25 to be sure of my feelings. While I find the GP3 car has a slightly "too light" feel.... the F1-2K car feels ((WAY)) to heavy. While I find the GP3 car`s grip to be slightly excessive.... the F1-2K car feels like it has no grip at all. Dont get me wrong!, I`m not saying the F1-2K car is hard to drive, far from it (it`s just as easy to drive as the GP3 car IMO). What I mean is that the F1-2k car is constantly making tire squeal sounds (when I feel it shouldnt) and the car always feels "lose" (at high speeds), although you do have full control of it. When you do back to back testing it almost feels like the F1-2K tracks have a thin layer of sand on them, and your car is equiped with "sand tires" to help you deal with it ..lol. In fact, when you get fast at F1-2K you get a slight 4 wheel drift "sensation" through most of the fast corners (almost like a rally car) and you get the feeling you are taking the corners faster than the real cars/drivers could. Btw, thats not even a "feeling", it plays out in your lap times, because my lap times at many F1-2K tracks are 7+ seconds faster than the real F1 times. There are still some things I like better about the way the F1-2k car feels.... it has a slightly more "alive" feel that translates into a better sensation of driving a "real car" and not a computer program.... but that doesn`t mean it feels more like driving a real "F1 car" than the F1 car in GP3. IMO, although not perfect by any means... the GP3 car feels a lot more like what a real F1 car should feel like, and I think thats whats making me have more fun playing GP3. I still like [many] things about F1-2K more than GP3....and like many people I wish I could somehow combine the 2 sims.... But as it stands now.... I need them both.... as I will use F1-2K for online racing and GP3 for everything else. Btw, there is a new GP3 hotlap competition site just started. Including "wet weather" competition =o) You will find it here: http://blitzsports.com/racing/GP3/ All the best, Lorne

In article <iSkj5.108585$[email hidden]>, "Lorne Glustein" <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP>

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> When I first tried GP3 I thought there was no doubt that I > liked F1-2K more "overall". But I have started to do some > indepth back to back testing, doing 25 laps at a track in > GP3, then doing 25 laps at the same track in F1-2K, then > another set of 25 + 25 to be sure of my feelings. While I > find the GP3 car has a slightly "too light" feel.... the F1-2K > car feels ((WAY)) to heavy. While I find the GP3 car`s grip > to be slightly excessive.... the F1-2K car feels like it has no > grip at all. Dont get me wrong!, I`m not saying the F1-2K > car is hard to drive, far from it (it`s just as easy to drive as > the GP3 car IMO). What I mean is that the F1-2k car is > constantly making tire squeal sounds (when I feel it > shouldnt) and the car always feels "lose" (at high speeds), > although you do have full control of it. When you do back to > back testing it almost feels like the F1-2K tracks have a thin > layer of sand on them, and your car is equiped with > "sand tires" to help you deal with it ..lol. In fact, when you > get fast at F1-2K you get a slight 4 wheel drift "sensation" > through most of the fast corners (almost like a rally car) and > you get the feeling you are taking the corners faster than > the real cars/drivers could. Btw, thats not even a "feeling", > it plays out in your lap times, because my lap times at many > F1-2K tracks are 7+ seconds faster than the real F1 times. > There are still some things I like better about the way the > F1-2k car feels.... it has a slightly more "alive" feel that > translates into a better sensation of driving a "real car" and > not a computer program.... but that doesn`t mean it feels > more like driving a real "F1 car" than the F1 car in GP3. > IMO, although not perfect by any means... the GP3 car feels > a lot more like what a real F1 car should feel like, and I think > thats whats making me have more fun playing GP3.

<SNIP> I've done quite a bit of back-to-back testing like you have, and while I agree that you can drift more with F12K than GP3, I find that the more I drive it, the LESS I like GP3. In fact, in the process of doing so much testing, I've been able optimize my graphics settings in F12K to the point where it looks and runs VERY well on my AMD K6-2 400 with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB Voodoo Banshee card, while GP3 is just plain slow and/or graphically unpleasing to look at. I've tweaked F12K out so well now that I'm actually able to run quick races against full AI fields, and it's a REAL blast. For me, F12K feels a LOT like GPL with wings and aero aids, which is GREAT. On the other hand, GP3 feels a LOT like GP2, which ain't bad, but to me it's not inspiring, either. Glad you're enjoying it, though. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > There is no comparison to be ... > GP3 is a poor evolution of GP2 and that's all. And it's still better than F12K. IMO, of course<g>. -- don New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks: http://www.ianparker1.freeserve.co.uk/gpl/index.html http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm

Lorne Glustein <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iSkj5.108585$[email hidden]... it ..lol. In fact, when you

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> get fast at F1-2K you get a slight 4 wheel drift "sensation" > through most of the fast corners (almost like a rally car) and > you get the feeling you are taking the corners faster than > the real cars/drivers could. Btw, thats not even a "feeling", > it plays out in your lap times, because my lap times at many > F1-2K tracks are 7+ seconds faster than the real F1 times. > >

that's it !!! right there, if you watch the video clips of F1 races and do a rewind / slowmo of the corners you will see exactly that 4 wheel drift sensation. I did not believe it at first but after reveiwing the video, I can tell you the drivers are feeling that 4 wheel drift and that sudden "no-grip full-grip" feeling just at and after the corners...

I think the trouble with both games is they each give some clues as to what an exceptional F1 sim could be like, but both ultimately fail to deliver. Like you say, if someone could sample from and improve on both we'd be very spoiled kittens indeed. Jan. =--- Lorne Glustein wrote... > I enjoy reading the posts that compare F1-2k to GP3, > <snip>

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I think the trouble with both games is they each give some clues asto what > an exceptional F1 sim could be like, but both ultimately fail todeliver. > > Like you say, if someone could sample from and improve on both we'dbe very > spoiled kittens indeed. > > Jan. I agree. while I did't like f12k it had its good points like the tyre wear and temp display,GP3 in my opinion has a better 'feel' to the driving and I actualy enter champ seasons and races (totaly failing to score points)but at least I am playing the game. GPL is my favorite race sim,possibly because its a simulation of cars with no downforce and 'normal' tyres so I at least have some Idea that the physics of the game are true to life,I've hardly ever raced in GPL and i've been playing it for 2 years now,most of that time spent learing to drive and 'hotlapping'. All the driving sims would benifit from having some role play style aspect to them,like getting offered a place in better teams and getting paid virtual millions,also a good driver log book with hours,miles run,miles run at whatever track,crashes,wins lap times ,and loads of other stats like flight sim fans get.it would be very intresting having played GPL for the past 2 years to see how many hours I have spent sweating,spitting and crying like a baby girl while attempting to shave off .05 of a second from my previous best lap and how many miles it took to achive my current laclustre driving skill level. Even Unreal tournament has more stats than any driving sim I've ever seen. > =--- > Lorne Glustein wrote... > > I enjoy reading the posts that compare F1-2k to GP3, > > <snip> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Nice post, I agree. -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> >I think the trouble with both games is they each give some >clues as to what an exceptional F1 sim could be like, but >both ultimately fail to deliver. > >Like you say, if someone could sample from and improve on >both we'd be very spoiled kittens indeed.

Unfortunately this will never happen because tastes differ from one person to the next. What is _your_ ideal combination of details and handling feel might be totally contrary to another person's tastes. For example, as someone else pointed out, Mr Crammond has obviously settled on what we see in GP3 as _his_ (and maybe his beta testers as well) preferred and ideal simulator. He for one isnt going to change it, because he has now finally got it exactly how he wants it to be. (We can say this because GP3 is so close to GP2 that if he was going to change, he's now missed two chances) Be nice if we had millions of options as standard in the game. Sure, we have/will have editor programs to customise to our liking, but then we cant compare with other people's lap times. cheers...

There is no comparison to be ... GP3 is a poor evolution of GP2 and that's all. Lorne Glustein a �crit :

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> I enjoy reading the posts that compare F1-2k to GP3, > and I find it interesting how people that have tried both > compare them. I like them both... though maybe "dislike" > is the better word.... IMO they both have a lot to offer, but > both fall well short of what I feel a modern F1 sim should > be.... I know I`m not alone in this thought. That being said, > I`m starting to like GP3 much more since doing some > extensive back to back testing with F1-2k and I`ve found > a few differences that [to me] stand out. I`m not going to > get into other issues that are already well covered in this > group.... My opinions on graphics/sound/AI/ interface, etc. > are that I can live with them in both games, though they both > have there ups and downs. What it comes down to for me > now is what sim is more <fun> to play "overall", and for me > most of that fun comes from the feel of driving the car. > These are a few things I just noticed while doing back to > back testing...anyone that has both sims installed should > really try this (and post your thoughts) I was suprised at > what I found. This is what I found: > When I first tried GP3 I thought there was no doubt that I > liked F1-2K more "overall". But I have started to do some > indepth back to back testing, doing 25 laps at a track in > GP3, then doing 25 laps at the same track in F1-2K, then > another set of 25 + 25 to be sure of my feelings. While I > find the GP3 car has a slightly "too light" feel.... the F1-2K > car feels ((WAY)) to heavy. While I find the GP3 car`s grip > to be slightly excessive.... the F1-2K car feels like it has no > grip at all. Dont get me wrong!, I`m not saying the F1-2K > car is hard to drive, far from it (it`s just as easy to drive as > the GP3 car IMO). What I mean is that the F1-2k car is > constantly making tire squeal sounds (when I feel it > shouldnt) and the car always feels "lose" (at high speeds), > although you do have full control of it. When you do back to > back testing it almost feels like the F1-2K tracks have a thin > layer of sand on them, and your car is equiped with > "sand tires" to help you deal with it ..lol. In fact, when you > get fast at F1-2K you get a slight 4 wheel drift "sensation" > through most of the fast corners (almost like a rally car) and > you get the feeling you are taking the corners faster than > the real cars/drivers could. Btw, thats not even a "feeling", > it plays out in your lap times, because my lap times at many > F1-2K tracks are 7+ seconds faster than the real F1 times. > There are still some things I like better about the way the > F1-2k car feels.... it has a slightly more "alive" feel that > translates into a better sensation of driving a "real car" and > not a computer program.... but that doesn`t mean it feels > more like driving a real "F1 car" than the F1 car in GP3. > IMO, although not perfect by any means... the GP3 car feels > a lot more like what a real F1 car should feel like, and I think > thats whats making me have more fun playing GP3. > > I still like [many] things about F1-2K more than GP3....and like > many people I wish I could somehow combine the 2 sims.... But > as it stands now.... I need them both.... as I will use F1-2K for > online racing and GP3 for everything else. > > Btw, there is a new GP3 hotlap competition site just started. > Including "wet weather" competition =o) > You will find it here: http://blitzsports.com/racing/GP3/ > > All the best, > Lorne