Re: GP3 after a week...

In article <2cgi5.362$[email hidden]>, "Danny" <[email hidden]> writes: >Agree with david 100% >the spins are canned after a certain point >revved your a dumb ass >turn the aids off Wait - if you turn off the aids, the spins seem MORE canned? That seems backwards. Also, Revved didn't call anyone names. Why did you? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +52.52 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Would that certain point be when the engine is ahead of the centre of gravity in which case it the laws of physics doing the canning YDF Danny you a (oh why bother) I've been catching spins all week they ain't canned Regards Mike On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:27:58 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Agree with david 100% >the spins are canned after a certain point >revved your a dumb ass >turn the aids off >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay" <[email hidden]> >wrote: >> >> >> >I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a >lof >> >of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way I >get >> >to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 >for >> >no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). >> >> What are your system/video/driver specs? >> >> I run 1024x768, <70% PO except at start, all details except cars only >> in mirrors. PIII-600/256mb/Voodoo3. Gorgeous. >> >> > >> >The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty >good. >> >Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, >over >> >the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step >out/slide >> >but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of >and >> >steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed >> >and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). >> >> Disagree. Download these replays and then come back and >> tell us that it is canned. >> >> ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/DavidJapan138445.zip >> ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/spins.zip >> >> You know how to load them, right? >> >> >> >

you seem to be in some kind of preprogrammed GP3 bashing routine. Your posts are definately canned.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:27:58 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Agree with david 100% >the spins are canned after a certain point >revved your a dumb ass >turn the aids off"If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels." Who's the idiot that made the above statement?

I really liked your review. Looked pretty positive and critical at the same time. Thats how its supposed to be. I agree on many points. Only thing i dont understand is that you never talked about the weather changes. Thats the most amazing piece of work i ever saw in a racing game. Maybe you didnt race in with weather changes yet ?? HJ David Mocnay <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws g0fi5.24029$[email hidden]... > It's about a week later and I have been playing GP3 on and of. It's really > eazy to get into (a little bit arcade like) where you sit down an 'fang'the > thing straight away. I's a bit of a cross between sim and arcade game - > though, an improment over GP2. > > I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering alof > of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way Iget > to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100for

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> no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). Still a bit jerky but > about as good as it's gonna get. Still the non-real-time game evgine and > framerate-cap of 25 are pracically inexusable in a game like this. It's a > joke that it stayed from GP2. > > The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty good. > Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though,

over > the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step out/slide > but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of and > steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed > and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). Braking is dead > eazy - stomp the brake and just release when locking up - this feelspretty > nice and progressive unlike GP2. Throttle is pretty progressive too, andyou > can modulate the rear-wheel traction nicely. Though, if you get > wheels-spin, the car does not behave realistically - it's a bit 'fake' > (feels pre-programmed and digital a bit). > > A slightly annoying bit is that the grass is just as grippy as the road.It > jiggles/shakes your car, but coming out of the corner on the limit and > having 2 wheels on the grass will not even upset your car. Though, curbscan > and do. Therefore, going wide out of corners is not a problem. > > Anoter annoying thing, when coming into the pits - the 'autopilot' takeson > and 'autobrakes' you though the entry into the pits. This is on the bit of > road before the speed-limiter cuts in. Very annoying that I don't get to > 'fly' in myself on the limit 'cos the game autobrakes me though there.Same > with the pit-box - it hits the brakes for you so you can never overshootthe > pits :-( Though, exiting your pits is nice as you get full control (except > for the speed-limiter). Though, you can spin the wheels out of the pits. > btw, the pits sequence is exacly like GP2 though they too away the guy who > cleans your helmet. > > Lack of sound from all the other cars bugs me more and more every day.When > I'm parked on the side of the road or of throttle or in low revs or on > brakes - there needs to be a sound from the other cars. Would havepreferes > to hear the cars all the time as this really goes against any feeldackthat > the game gives you. > > Which brings me onto the 'feedback' - the Virual cockpit does a very nice > job of it like GPL ... probably ultimately it does not convey everythingin > such detail, but it does the job and does it good. Though, shame that the > tracks are all billiardtable-smooth as it would have addeded imensly ifyou > had to brake/corner though bumpy area. F1 tracks are very bumpy (at least > some of them) - in particualr Monaco that should be a very rough ride, but > isn't. > > Replays - still the crapiest replays in any game that was released overthe > last 5 yerars. You have the same old GP2 20sec-instant-replay which is > useless as you don't want to pause the game every 20 secs just to see anice > pass 'cos it brakes your rythm and removes any sence of imersement fromthe > game. Though, you can save single 'hotlaps' after each session - though,you > can't save mutlitle laps and when viewing them you have no control overthe > replay. ie, no rewind, fowrard, slow motion etc. You really only can flick > though the camera angles which are straight from GP2. > > Car setup - you get a 'garage' where you get to tweek stuff, thoughchanging > the camber and springs is a total guess-game because you don't get a tyre > temperature readout from the game. Therefore, you have no idea whetheryou > need more/less camber and where. Though, wings and gears do the trick. > Changing the wings has the biggest effect on the car, you can turn the car > into a real oversteerer (even under braking) by dropping the back wing.With > the wings you can actually introduce some 'additude' into the carhandling. > > That's it for now. GP3 is in some ways exacly like GP2. In some ways afair > bit better than GP2, but in every way inferior to something like GPL. It's > still lightyears behind it (in particualr as far as the driving/physics > model goes). Really it is the GP2 that we should have had 4 years ago. Asit > it now, it is more a game that seems for into the arcades (as far as the > feel/driving goes) and less of a sim by todays standards. Best current-F1 > game on the PC it could possible be (though, it'd be close), though best > racing game it not (does not comes even close). This is really just agame,

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> not a sim. > > ps. I don't have F1 2000 so I can't compare. Though, I have/had Revs, GP1, > GP2, ICR2, F1RS, F1RS2, SCGT, Viper and GPL. > -- > > Regards, > David Mocnay > >

Canned after what 'point' exactly? I have spinned, and caught at anything up to 30-40 degrees, spinned and gone into a lateral slide (i.e. 90 degrees to original direction of travel) when not fully caught., this would be impossible if the spin was 'canned'. You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering. Alan Danny The Dumb ass wrote:

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> > Agree with david 100% > the spins are canned after a certain point > revved your a dumb ass > turn the aids off > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > > > >I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a > lof > > >of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way I > get > > >to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 > for > > >no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). > > > > What are your system/video/driver specs? > > > > I run 1024x768, <70% PO except at start, all details except cars only > > in mirrors. PIII-600/256mb/Voodoo3. Gorgeous. > > > > > > > >The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty > good. > > >Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, > over > > >the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step > out/slide > > >but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of > and > > >steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed > > >and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). > > > > Disagree. Download these replays and then come back and > > tell us that it is canned. > > > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/DavidJapan138445.zip > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/spins.zip > > > > You know how to load them, right? > > > > > >

I think Danny Dumbass has pretty much already shown the 'validity' of his opinions regarding GP3's Physics engine. Alan Dave K wrote:

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> > On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:27:58 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Agree with david 100% > >the spins are canned after a certain point > >revved your a dumb ass > >turn the aids off > "If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car > feels." > > Who's the idiot that made the above statement?

Danny <[email hidden]> wrote: : JUst saw your replays. : Doing dohnuts is nothing. : The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a pre : proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. (Grin) That would actually be harder to write than the damn physics model. "Engage the donut routine captain the detect donuts alarm has been triggered." -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

> The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in apre > proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. oooh.... you should know how stupid you sound there, that's the dumbest thing I heard in a looooooooooong time, not such a big suprise it was you who said it :) -- Sjon

"Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: > When u slide in gp3 the car loses all lateral grip and > never gets it back That's exactly what the F1 drivers were complaining about after the introduction of grooved tyres... Pasi Pikkupeura

Danny DaDunceDic, I'm afraid you really have more imagination than knowledge when it comes to spins (and programming). Danny wrote:

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> JUst saw your replays. > > Doing dohnuts is nothing. > The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a pre > proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. > The canned spins are when u are actually drving and the game has to > determine at which point to make u spin,thats when its caned and feels very > digital.I saw u try and get some sideways when you were drving and it > wouldnt slide out in a proggresive manner which it should so under light > throttle,it always wants to slew sideways even if you wheel is straight. > I spun out on a hairpin doing 30kph i barely touched the throttle and did a > 180,i didnt have enough momentum for it no way but it still picked me up and > put me into the spin. > > Its pathetic,a car should slide proggresivly > When u slide in gp3 the car loses all lateral grip and never gets it back > even when u are going very slowly its total BS > "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2cgi5.362$[email hidden]... > > Agree with david 100% > > the spins are canned after a certain point > > revved your a dumb ass > > turn the aids off > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay" > <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a > > lof > > > >of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way > I > > get > > > >to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 > > for > > > >no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). > > > > > > What are your system/video/driver specs? > > > > > > I run 1024x768, <70% PO except at start, all details except cars only > > > in mirrors. PIII-600/256mb/Voodoo3. Gorgeous. > > > > > > > > > > >The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty > > good. > > > >Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, > > over > > > >the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step > > out/slide > > > >but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of > > and > > > >steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' > (pre-programmed > > > >and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). > > > > > > Disagree. Download these replays and then come back and > > > tell us that it is canned. > > > > > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/DavidJapan138445.zip > > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/spins.zip > > > > > > You know how to load them, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:37:34 GMT, Rod Prince <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works >> beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive) >> but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands >> to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets >> from the web. Not much change there.) > >Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause >mapped to 3 of my buttons.

No go. The profiler ignores my suggestions... :( (BTW it works for my non-FF joystick...) Martin D. Pay Frustrated...

"Rod Prince" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.13f53928c1cefa2f989725@news-server...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works > > beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive) > > but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands > > to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets > > from the web. Not much change there.) > > Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause > mapped to 3 of my buttons. > > Cheers, > Rod.

The Profiler works great for me also. Using the Shift Key, I have 10 functions mapped to my wheel in GP3. And I wonder why I crash so much<g>. What pissed me off was that GP3 would not recognize my pedals. I dicked around with the thing until I got a right nice headache, took a break and went online to check the newsgroup. Sure enough, within minutes I found the no-cd patch fix, downloaded it and was on my way to practice. I feel sorry for LWFF owners who might be unaware that a fix is available. I called the owner of Interact, where I purchased GP3, and told him about it, in case he gets any complaints. Everything else works great, the forces could be stronger, but the steering feels good with no deadzone and no real surprises so far. I thought I would hate the moving wheel, but I became used to it quickly. The "adjustable" cockpit is a scream, that must have taken at least two of the four years GP3 spent in development<vbg>. All in all, I'm enjoying it, but it's taking away valuable time from my GPL pursuits<g>. -- don New GPL Programs for the Converted Tracks: http://www.ianparker1.freeserve.co.uk/gpl/index.html http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/brucek/hmrc/index.htm

Good to have you back, John. -- PD John Wallace wrote: > > On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:55:17 GMT, Dave K > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car > >feels." > > > >Who's the idiot that made the above statement? > > Anyone who knows anything about cars. Tell me what would be > fundamentally different? > > Essentially there is only one, aero (wings and venturi), but that > would not be applicable when sliding the car out of a low speed > corner. > > John

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:37:04 +0100, Alan <[email hidden]> wrote: >You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is >biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so >after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering. Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes - WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving again. Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned. John

On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:55:17 GMT, Dave K <[email hidden]> wrote: >"If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car >feels." > >Who's the idiot that made the above statement? Anyone who knows anything about cars. Tell me what would be fundamentally different? Essentially there is only one, aero (wings and venturi), but that would not be applicable when sliding the car out of a low speed corner. John

On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay" <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: >It's about a week later and I have been playing GP3 on and of. It's really >eazy to get into (a little bit arcade like) where you sit down an 'fang' the >thing straight away. I's a bit of a cross between sim and arcade game - >though, an improment over GP2. <snip> My own take, one week on and five races into a Championship season... Good things: The AI - aggressive, smart and not easy to beat. And they fight back, too... The graphics - I'm running an AMDK6-2 450, 128MB RAM, Guillemot TNT2 M64 32MB graphics card, 16bit PCI Soundblaster. I get around 21/23 fps at around 95% - 130% processor occupancy at 800x600. Graphics on automatic, slider slightly up towards the 'smoother play' end. Very pretty (make that distracting! ^_^ ) and eminently playable. (I have a friend with a similar system - P3 450 rather than my AMD - and a Creative 16MB Voodoo Banshee card who says he gets 25fps at 1024x768. It seems unlikely to me - my fps goes down to 12/13 at that resolution - but I haven't seen his system running GP3 to say for sure. And I've no idea what his PO is - he doesn't bother to check it as the game runs OK. Which maybe could teach us all something... ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ) As for spins, canned or not - well, it is possible to recover if you're both quick and lucky. But generally speaking once a modern F1 car loses grip it does so spectacularly and you can forget recovering until it slows almost to a stop... (Preferably on the edge of the gravel, not embedded in the tyre wall!) The track also has an effect - it's much easier to spin out at Monaco and Interlagos than at (for example) Imola, IMO. Which seems about right... The graphics format. Keeping the same file format has made it so much easier for the Add-on Kings... ^_^ I've never bought a game before where the first third party patches/add-ons were available on the net *before* the official release date! I've been happily downloading and tweaking... ^_- And of course the weather, CPU hog that it is. Schumacher the Rainmaster I'm not... Bad things: Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive) but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets from the web. Not much change there.) Slo-mo when PO gets excessive. I dislike this intensely - the car is much harder to control through bends when you can't properly read the wheel-turn needed. I gather that GP2 was the same, although I never suffered it on my system. I'm not sure what the alternative is, though, if you want to keep the graphics on screen (trackside braking markers, cars behind you in the mirrors - back *off*, Schuey! - and so forth). Can anyone out there who knows about programming graphics suggest how it *should* have been handled? I have this feeling that the graphics card is woefully underused... Overall: I like it. It may only be GP2.5 as some claim, but I do believe I can see where the time went in creating it. I don't believe it's easy to create a really good AI quickly, nor the rain effects on the various setups... And it's a small team, compared to some. An F1 sim from Papy might be interesting - but only if it has the same sort of learning curve that GP3 does, with its driver aids... For the record, I've played GPL, GP2, NFS3, TOCA, Colin Macrae Rally, SCGT (gods, the track-adding method in that one is a bastard!) and (the very first racing game I ever bought) Johnny Herbert's Grand Prix Championship 1998. I've not played any of the more recent F1 games - I thought about buying F1-2k but it hasn't hit the 'cheap' bins yet... ^_^ Martin D. Pay Who wishes he could get 20+ fps out of MS Flight Sim 2000 with any form of graphics details visible... :(

>I`ve heard people give it the old " it`s no GPL " routine, and I couldn`t >agree more. It is NOT GPL,as in it is not trying to replicate hoe cars back >then handled, It is trying to replicate how cars handled in 1998. I aggree and I don't even have the GP3 yet. Keep in mind the physics engine was designed with the help of two current F1 drivers (Arrows' drivers I believe. Can't laugh too much at that one lately). How many of you neysayers have driven a modern F1 car lately? I look forward to having GP3 and trust that De la Rosa has a better idea of how a current F1 car (and simulator) should behave better than the rest of us.

Well, I have read all this thread with a grin on my face, some say canned and others not. My personal opinion is not. People have made comments on the laws of physics which are the thing in question here. F1 cars are an individual breed, they rely (especially at present with the grooved tyre regulatons) mainly on the downforce given by the front and rear wings. They reckon you could drive one of these things on the ceiling because of the speed and downforce combination. If you took the wings of these cars cornering would be seriously difficult (obviously) even at low speeds. If you watch TV coverage of the sport, which I have been lucky enough to see here in the UK from being a young lad to a 30 year old man on a regular basis, you will have seen the many accidents and unfortunate fatalaties that have occured in the sport. Most of these occur because the driver is on the absoloute limit, obviously only a fraction of speed , late braking etc.. takes you beyond that point. You find that That the cars just go ping!, and there out of control, spinning away or just sliding sideways at some serious velocity leaving the driver helpless and at the mercy of fate. These cars are not designed to be powerslided it`s not efficient, it costs laptime, there designed to stick by downforce. When downforce is gone you are usually travelling at a silly speed ( hair on fire ) thus regaining control is not easy. I`ve seen some good recoveries, but they usually entailed spinning 540 degrees heading off backwards on the grass, track or wahtever with the driver being able to get the car pointed in the right direction and get away without hitting anything and without loosing much time ( oh! being alive aswell). I`ve heard people give it the old " it`s no GPL " routine, and I couldn`t agree more. It is NOT GPL,as in it is not trying to replicate hoe cars back then handled, It is trying to replicate how cars handled in 1998. I personally like the physics model, the best way to regain control of a lost car is too bleed off the speed, try to get it back within the limit, I think this is correct. Most low speed spins are caused by over acceleration at a time when downforce is not working at it`s true potential, people surely don`t think that upon loosing control putting your foot down and turning into it is going to help a recovery. Taking your foot off the gas and fighting it is what is called for, remembering that sharp movements of the wheel will result in sharp movements of the car which will alter the cars sensitive characteristics. Gp3 seems to give a good idea of how things work in a modern day F1 car, bearing in mind it`s not a easy thing to model. Shit I didn`t intend to waffle on that long, anyway thats my humble take on the handling. Snake.

LOL (Wondering if this reply is canned,or GPL-style:?) Alexander Marx wrote: > you seem to be in some kind of preprogrammed GP3 bashing routine. Your posts > are definately canned.

LOL -- Joe Marques Please remove "NO SPAM" to e-mail me. "Alexander Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mc6g1$6ahm9$[email hidden]... > you seem to be in some kind of preprogrammed GP3 bashing routine. Your posts > are definately canned. > >

It's about a week later and I have been playing GP3 on and of. It's really eazy to get into (a little bit arcade like) where you sit down an 'fang' the thing straight away. I's a bit of a cross between sim and arcade game - though, an improment over GP2. I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a lof of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way I get to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 for no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). Still a bit jerky but about as good as it's gonna get. Still the non-real-time game evgine and framerate-cap of 25 are pracically inexusable in a game like this. It's a joke that it stayed from GP2. The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty good. Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, over the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step out/slide but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of and steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). Braking is dead eazy - stomp the brake and just release when locking up - this feels pretty nice and progressive unlike GP2. Throttle is pretty progressive too, and you can modulate the rear-wheel traction nicely. Though, if you get wheels-spin, the car does not behave realistically - it's a bit 'fake' (feels pre-programmed and digital a bit). A slightly annoying bit is that the grass is just as grippy as the road. It jiggles/shakes your car, but coming out of the corner on the limit and having 2 wheels on the grass will not even upset your car. Though, curbs can and do. Therefore, going wide out of corners is not a problem. Anoter annoying thing, when coming into the pits - the 'autopilot' takes on and 'autobrakes' you though the entry into the pits. This is on the bit of road before the speed-limiter cuts in. Very annoying that I don't get to 'fly' in myself on the limit 'cos the game autobrakes me though there. Same with the pit-box - it hits the brakes for you so you can never overshoot the pits :-( Though, exiting your pits is nice as you get full control (except for the speed-limiter). Though, you can spin the wheels out of the pits. btw, the pits sequence is exacly like GP2 though they too away the guy who cleans your helmet. Lack of sound from all the other cars bugs me more and more every day. When I'm parked on the side of the road or of throttle or in low revs or on brakes - there needs to be a sound from the other cars. Would have preferes to hear the cars all the time as this really goes against any feeldack that the game gives you. Which brings me onto the 'feedback' - the Virual cockpit does a very nice job of it like GPL ... probably ultimately it does not convey everything in such detail, but it does the job and does it good. Though, shame that the tracks are all billiardtable-smooth as it would have addeded imensly if you had to brake/corner though bumpy area. F1 tracks are very bumpy (at least some of them) - in particualr Monaco that should be a very rough ride, but isn't. Replays - still the crapiest replays in any game that was released over the last 5 yerars. You have the same old GP2 20sec-instant-replay which is useless as you don't want to pause the game every 20 secs just to see a nice pass 'cos it brakes your rythm and removes any sence of imersement from the game. Though, you can save single 'hotlaps' after each session - though, you can't save mutlitle laps and when viewing them you have no control over the replay. ie, no rewind, fowrard, slow motion etc. You really only can flick though the camera angles which are straight from GP2. Car setup - you get a 'garage' where you get to tweek stuff, though changing the camber and springs is a total guess-game because you don't get a tyre temperature readout from the game. Therefore, you have no idea whether you need more/less camber and where. Though, wings and gears do the trick. Changing the wings has the biggest effect on the car, you can turn the car into a real oversteerer (even under braking) by dropping the back wing. With the wings you can actually introduce some 'additude' into the car handling. That's it for now. GP3 is in some ways exacly like GP2. In some ways a fair bit better than GP2, but in every way inferior to something like GPL. It's still lightyears behind it (in particualr as far as the driving/physics model goes). Really it is the GP2 that we should have had 4 years ago. As it it now, it is more a game that seems for into the arcades (as far as the feel/driving goes) and less of a sim by todays standards. Best current-F1 game on the PC it could possible be (though, it'd be close), though best racing game it not (does not comes even close). This is really just a game, not a sim. ps. I don't have F1 2000 so I can't compare. Though, I have/had Revs, GP1, GP2, ICR2, F1RS, F1RS2, SCGT, Viper and GPL. -- Regards, David Mocnay

Agree with david 100% the spins are canned after a certain point revved your a dumb ass turn the aids off "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > > >I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering alof > >of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way Iget > >to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100for

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> >no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). > > What are your system/video/driver specs? > > I run 1024x768, <70% PO except at start, all details except cars only > in mirrors. PIII-600/256mb/Voodoo3. Gorgeous. > > > > >The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty

good. > >Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though,over > >the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does stepout/slide > >but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift ofand

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> >steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed > >and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). > > Disagree. Download these replays and then come back and > tell us that it is canned. > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/DavidJapan138445.zip > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/spins.zip > > You know how to load them, right? > > >

JUst saw your replays. Doing dohnuts is nothing. The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a pre proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. The canned spins are when u are actually drving and the game has to determine at which point to make u spin,thats when its caned and feels very digital.I saw u try and get some sideways when you were drving and it wouldnt slide out in a proggresive manner which it should so under light throttle,it always wants to slew sideways even if you wheel is straight. I spun out on a hairpin doing 30kph i barely touched the throttle and did a 180,i didnt have enough momentum for it no way but it still picked me up and put me into the spin. Its pathetic,a car should slide proggresivly When u slide in gp3 the car loses all lateral grip and never gets it back even when u are going very slowly its total BS "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2cgi5.362$[email hidden]...

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> Agree with david 100% > the spins are canned after a certain point > revved your a dumb ass > turn the aids off > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:11:11 +1000, "David Mocnay"

<[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > > > >I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a > lof > > >of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only wayI

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> get > > >to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 > for > > >no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). > > > > What are your system/video/driver specs? > > > > I run 1024x768, <70% PO except at start, all details except cars only > > in mirrors. PIII-600/256mb/Voodoo3. Gorgeous. > > > > > > > >The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty > good. > > >Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, > over > > >the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step > out/slide > > >but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of > and > > >steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail'

(pre-programmed

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> > >and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). > > > > Disagree. Download these replays and then come back and > > tell us that it is canned. > > > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/DavidJapan138445.zip > > ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/rrev/spins.zip > > > > You know how to load them, right? > > > > > > > >

Whoa, then what do you think about the physics if you regain control by just smashing to brakes to the floot. It almost always gets the car back to control and straightens the car in an unrealistic way, just my two cents and disappointment for the game... Snake <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iLni5.8769$[email hidden]... > I`ve heard people give it the old " it`s no GPL " routine, and I couldn`t > agree more. It is NOT GPL,as in it is not trying to replicate hoe carsback > then handled, It is trying to replicate how cars handled in 1998. I > personally like the physics model, the best way to regain control of alost > car is too bleed off the speed, try to get it back within the limit,

Camber? -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico, USA David Mocnay <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g0fi5.24029$[email hidden]... > It's about a week later and I have been playing GP3 on and of. It's really > eazy to get into (a little bit arcade like) where you sit down an 'fang' the > thing straight away. I's a bit of a cross between sim and arcade game - > though, an improment over GP2. > > I have to run the thing in 640x480 (which looks bit yucky considering a lof > of the background/pits is already pretty blocky). Thus is the only way I get > to keep the PO (processr occupancy) at about 70-110 (need less than 100 for > no slowmo's). Then I can run it at 25fps (maximum). Still a bit jerky but > about as good as it's gonna get. Still the non-real-time game evgine and > framerate-cap of 25 are pracically inexusable in a game like this. It's a > joke that it stayed from GP2. > > The car can be driven on the limit - up to there it all feels pretty good. > Not much to it - handles like on rails and stops on a dime :-) Though, over > the limit the car goes into 'canned routines' where it does step out/slide > but it just does not feel real. Though, it is drivable there - lift of and > steer into slide and the car will do a 'little fish tail' (pre-programmed > and feels digital istead of really reaiding your inputs). Braking is dead > eazy - stomp the brake and just release when locking up - this feels pretty > nice and progressive unlike GP2. Throttle is pretty progressive too, and you > can modulate the rear-wheel traction nicely. Though, if you get > wheels-spin, the car does not behave realistically - it's a bit 'fake' > (feels pre-programmed and digital a bit). > > A slightly annoying bit is that the grass is just as grippy as the road. It > jiggles/shakes your car, but coming out of the corner on the limit and > having 2 wheels on the grass will not even upset your car. Though, curbs can > and do. Therefore, going wide out of corners is not a problem. > > Anoter annoying thing, when coming into the pits - the 'autopilot' takes on > and 'autobrakes' you though the entry into the pits. This is on the bit of > road before the speed-limiter cuts in. Very annoying that I don't get to > 'fly' in myself on the limit 'cos the game autobrakes me though there. Same > with the pit-box - it hits the brakes for you so you can never overshoot the > pits :-( Though, exiting your pits is nice as you get full control (except > for the speed-limiter). Though, you can spin the wheels out of the pits. > btw, the pits sequence is exacly like GP2 though they too away the guy who > cleans your helmet. > > Lack of sound from all the other cars bugs me more and more every day. When > I'm parked on the side of the road or of throttle or in low revs or on > brakes - there needs to be a sound from the other cars. Would have preferes > to hear the cars all the time as this really goes against any feeldack that > the game gives you. > > Which brings me onto the 'feedback' - the Virual cockpit does a very nice > job of it like GPL ... probably ultimately it does not convey everything in > such detail, but it does the job and does it good. Though, shame that the > tracks are all billiardtable-smooth as it would have addeded imensly if you > had to brake/corner though bumpy area. F1 tracks are very bumpy (at least > some of them) - in particualr Monaco that should be a very rough ride, but > isn't. > > Replays - still the crapiest replays in any game that was released over the > last 5 yerars. You have the same old GP2 20sec-instant-replay which is > useless as you don't want to pause the game every 20 secs just to see a nice > pass 'cos it brakes your rythm and removes any sence of imersement from the > game. Though, you can save single 'hotlaps' after each session - though, you > can't save mutlitle laps and when viewing them you have no control over the > replay. ie, no rewind, fowrard, slow motion etc. You really only can flick > though the camera angles which are straight from GP2. > > Car setup - you get a 'garage' where you get to tweek stuff, though changing > the camber and springs is a total guess-game because you don't get a tyre > temperature readout from the game. Therefore, you have no idea whether you > need more/less camber and where. Though, wings and gears do the trick. > Changing the wings has the biggest effect on the car, you can turn the car > into a real oversteerer (even under braking) by dropping the back wing. With > the wings you can actually introduce some 'additude' into the car handling. > > That's it for now. GP3 is in some ways exacly like GP2. In some ways a fair > bit better than GP2, but in every way inferior to something like GPL. It's > still lightyears behind it (in particualr as far as the driving/physics > model goes). Really it is the GP2 that we should have had 4 years ago. As it > it now, it is more a game that seems for into the arcades (as far as the > feel/driving goes) and less of a sim by todays standards. Best current-F1 > game on the PC it could possible be (though, it'd be close), though best > racing game it not (does not comes even close). This is really just a game, > not a sim. > > ps. I don't have F1 2000 so I can't compare. Though, I have/had Revs, GP1, > GP2, ICR2, F1RS, F1RS2, SCGT, Viper and GPL. > -- > > Regards, > David Mocnay > >

Richard G Clegg wrote:

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> > Danny <[email hidden]> wrote: > : JUst saw your replays. > > : Doing dohnuts is nothing. > : The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in a pre > : proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. > > (Grin) That would actually be harder to write than the damn physics > model. "Engage the donut routine captain the detect donuts alarm has > been triggered." > > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group > Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York > UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

I just wanted to write exactly the same reply, but you beat me to it! -Gregor

Lol - agreed "Richard G Clegg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8mc9t1$lhj$[email hidden]... | Danny <[email hidden]> wrote: | : JUst saw your replays. | | : Doing dohnuts is nothing. | : The game knows that you are trying to do the dohnuts so it puts you in apre

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| : proggramed routine which allows you to spin freely. | | (Grin) That would actually be harder to write than the damn physics | model. "Engage the donut routine captain the detect donuts alarm has | been triggered." | | -- | Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving | Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group | Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York | UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

John Wallace <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:37:04 +0100, Alan <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is > >biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so > >after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering. > > Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes - > WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving > again. > > Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned.

Why is that ? The only unrealstic thing about that is that the car would stall before starting to move, but a idling car in gear is moving. It would certainly not be at standstill, but since no racinggame has modeled clutch yet I guess this is something we have to live with. In WSC you will be able to stall the car :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove spam when replying

John Wallace <[email hidden]> wrote: : On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:37:04 +0100, Alan <[email hidden]> : wrote: :>You should also take into account the fact that the centre of gravity is :>biased to the back (you know, where that big engine thingy is *grin*) so :>after a certain point inertia will stop you from recovering. : Yes, but bring the car to a complete halt and come off the brakes - : WHOA! that intertia thingy is still there! The car starts moving : again. : Spooooooky! Well, either spooky or canned. Or... and here the real conspiracy begins... actually just not a very realistic physics model. (No, surely not the crowd gasps.) -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:43:43 -0700, "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: <snip> >The Profiler works great for me also. Using the Shift Key, I have 10 >functions mapped to my wheel in GP3. And I wonder why I crash so much<g>. Grrrr.... >:( >What pissed me off was that GP3 would not recognize my pedals. The possibly really weird thing is that it recognised my pedals straight off... Martin D. Pay All out of ideas...

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:34:52 GMT, Rod Prince <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... > >> >Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause >> >mapped to 3 of my buttons. >> >> No go. The profiler ignores my suggestions... :( >> >> (BTW it works for my non-FF joystick...) > >Sorry to hear that, just know that it does work here V 3.30.532. First >time I've actually used the profiler. Most other sims I set the buttons >from within the sim. ;/

I also have v 3.30.532... I *will* beat this thing. Especially since so many others have done so... ^_^ Martin D. Pay Of course I might then lose my pedals... :(:(:( > >Cheers, >Rod.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Poor FF support. My Logi FF wheel is very nice and works > beautifully in GPL (it actually makes that one easier to drive) > but has very little feel in GP3. And I *still* can't map commands > to the wheel buttons... (Yes, I've downloaded various .con sets > from the web. Not much change there.) Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause mapped to 3 of my buttons. Cheers, Rod.

On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:43:43 -0700, "don hodgdon" <snip> Grrrr.... >:( The possibly really weird thing is that it recognised my pedals straight off... Martin D. Pay All out of ideas...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > >Use the Logitech Profiler. Works here. Have gap, pit on/off and pause > >mapped to 3 of my buttons. > > No go. The profiler ignores my suggestions... :( > > (BTW it works for my non-FF joystick...) Sorry to hear that, just know that it does work here V 3.30.532. First time I've actually used the profiler. Most other sims I set the buttons from within the sim. ;/ Cheers, Rod.