Re: Hasbro UK's response to slow Voodoo2 problem.

SomeOne wrote: > snip > Which doesn't suprise me one bit. I've said it before: there will be one > patch only for GP3 - it's called GP4 and will be available this > Christmas. You can keep guessing 'til Xmas, but right now I believe the support line, which acknowledged the work on a patch... I'm a believer! ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Colin Taylor wrote: > > 1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. > They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed > back to the 2D card for processing. Therefore they are recommending buying > a new 2D to solve the problem! (or getting updated drivers for the 2D card). Which tells me they have absolutely no f------ clue how the Voodoo2 works. > 2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is Which doesn't suprise me one bit. I've said it before: there will be one patch only for GP3 - it's called GP4 and will be available this Christmas.

"Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> 1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. > They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed > back to the 2D card for processing. Therefore they are recommending buying > a new 2D to solve the problem! (or getting updated drivers for the 2D card). > > I do not believe this is an accurate description of the problem. Rather, > GP3 uses DirectDraw with the HAL. 3D functions are passed through to the > Voodoo2 if it supports them. Unsupported and 2D functions are (I believe) > NOT passed to the 2D card, but are emulated in software by > DirectDraw.

"emulated" isn't the best word, but this is essentially true. > Therefore, changing the 2D card would have no effect, but upgrading the > processor would. yes. might I suggest you get a new 3D-card instead? face it, a voodoo2 is getting pretty ancient. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

I thought you might like to know what Hasbro's technical support say about the problem with GP3 running very slowly on Voodoo2's. 1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed back to the 2D card for processing. Therefore they are recommending buying a new 2D to solve the problem! (or getting updated drivers for the 2D card). I do not believe this is an accurate description of the problem. Rather, GP3 uses DirectDraw with the HAL. 3D functions are passed through to the Voodoo2 if it supports them. Unsupported and 2D functions are (I believe) NOT passed to the 2D card, but are emulated in software by DirectDraw. Therefore, changing the 2D card would have no effect, but upgrading the processor would. Can any Voodoo2 owners with multiple 2D cards confirm or deny this explanation? Either way, it is apparent from this that GP3 is basically a 2D game (like GP2) and uses very few 3D graphics functions at all. 2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is planned for later in the year. This will be a separate product, not a free download. 3) Hasbro have still had only a few people telephone them to report this problem and don't regard it as a serious issue. PLEASE, if you are an unhappy Voodoo2 owner, telephone them now and let them know, otherwise you only have yourself to blame when they refuse to fix the problem. Colin

Thanks for sharing that. I have a particularly crappy 2D card so maybe there's some truth in it. I intend to get a GeForce 2 Mx when they come out if they are as good (and cheap) as promised. Tony Whitley Colin Taylor <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZmSh5.4997$8W5.51625@news2-hme0... > I thought you might like to know what Hasbro's technical support say about > the problem with GP3 running very slowly on Voodoo2's. > > 1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card.

Hasbro technical support told me that quite explicitly. However, they do plan to release a 1999 version later this year but it is a seperate product NOT a free download/patch. They also have the FIA license and plan to release one GPn game each year for the next 4 years. Although they might not be on the PC, they might be console versions. That's what they told me anyhow. Colin "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:01:16 +0100, "Colin Taylor"<[email hidden]> wrote: > > >NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 > > Who said that? >

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:01:16 +0100, "Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. >They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed >back to the 2D card for processing. Therefore they are recommending buying >a new 2D to solve the problem! (or getting updated drivers for the 2D card). > > I do not believe this is an accurate description of the problem. Rather, >GP3 uses DirectDraw with the HAL. 3D functions are passed through to the >Voodoo2 if it supports them. Unsupported and 2D functions are (I believe) >NOT passed to the 2D card, but are emulated in software by DirectDraw. >Therefore, changing the 2D card would have no effect, but upgrading the >processor would.

Agreed. Perhaps the Voodoo2 is just too slow when writing directly to its framebuffer. >2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is >planned for later in the year. This would be very bad...imho they *have* to fix the controller issues. But I also heard from other people that some Hasbro people said there would be a patch soon... Daniel

Oh dear.......that doesnt look good at all!! | 2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is | planned for later in the year. This will be a separate product, not afree | download. |

I think you are right about unsupported features being emulated in software, it's hard to say for sure though. But, and this is important, no one should be buying a new 2d card, or a new processor to fix this problem. To do that is completely insane, and I can't think why Hasbro would recommend it. That doesn't remove the problem, it just compensates for it. It would be way cheaper just to replace the V2 and the 2d card with an all-in-one 2d/3d card like a V3 or something. "Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZmSh5.4997$8W5.51625@news2-hme0... > I thought you might like to know what Hasbro's technical support say about > the problem with GP3 running very slowly on Voodoo2's. > > 1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. > They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed > back to the 2D card for processing. Therefore they are recommendingbuying > a new 2D to solve the problem! (or getting updated drivers for the 2Dcard).

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > I do not believe this is an accurate description of the problem. Rather, > GP3 uses DirectDraw with the HAL. 3D functions are passed through to the > Voodoo2 if it supports them. Unsupported and 2D functions are (I believe) > NOT passed to the 2D card, but are emulated in software by DirectDraw. > Therefore, changing the 2D card would have no effect, but upgrading the > processor would. > > Can any Voodoo2 owners with multiple 2D cards confirm or deny this > explanation? Either way, it is apparent from this that GP3 is basically a > 2D game (like GP2) and uses very few 3D graphics functions at all. > > 2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is > planned for later in the year. This will be a separate product, not a

free > download. > > 3) Hasbro have still had only a few people telephone them to reportthis

Quoted text (8 lines)

> problem and don't regard it as a serious issue. PLEASE, if you are an > unhappy Voodoo2 owner, telephone them now and let them know, otherwise you > only have yourself to blame when they refuse to fix the problem. > > Colin > > >

Sounds marvelous. Where do I sign up :-) -- [email hidden] "Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XPSh5.4999$8W5.51635@news2-hme0... > Hasbro technical support told me that quite explicitly. However, they do > plan to release a 1999 version later this year but it is a seperate product > NOT a free download/patch. They also have the FIA license and plan to > release one GPn game each year for the next 4 years. Although they might > not be on the PC, they might be console versions. > > That's what they told me anyhow. > > Colin > > > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:01:16 +0100, "Colin Taylor" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 > > > > Who said that? > > > >

In article <8m94u6$dmj$[email hidden]>, "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Oh dear.......that doesnt look good at all!! > >| 2) NO PATCHES OR FIXES are planned for GP3 although a 1999 version is >| planned for later in the year. This will be a separate product, not a >free >| download. >|

So maybe I shouldn't buy GP3 even when it DOES get to the US...I should just wait for GP4? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +52.52 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (Joe62) writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >yes. might I suggest you get a new 3D-card instead? face it, a > >voodoo2 is getting pretty ancient. > > Nonsense. It's a perfectly capable 3d card - with every other game on > the planet.

sure it is. have you seen the newer cards? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

Joe62 wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > "Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. > >They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed > >back to the 2D card for processing. > > If true, the GP3 really is an outdated tash graphics engine. No other > game on the planet works this way.

This of course is nonsense. Only one frame buffer is put on the monitor, either the 2D card or the V2, but they don't work together. -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

I thought GP4 was only going to be for the Dreamcast and not for the PC? Chris -- SomeOne <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Which doesn't suprise me one bit. I've said it before: there will be one patch only for GP3 - it's called GP4 and will be available this Christmas.

#> Therefore, changing the 2D card would have no effect, but upgrading the #> processor would. # #yes. might I suggest you get a new 3D-card instead? face it, a #voodoo2 is getting pretty ancient. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..... voodoo2 owner, shellfer.

"Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote: >1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. >They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed >back to the 2D card for processing. If true, the GP3 really is an outdated tash graphics engine. No other game on the planet works this way. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: >If the part about 'no patches' for the controller problem in GP3 >isn't fixed by Hasbro either in the US release, or in a patch, then >I won't buy it when it comes out here. Ditto. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >yes. might I suggest you get a new 3D-card instead? face it, a >voodoo2 is getting pretty ancient. Nonsense. It's a perfectly capable 3d card - with every other game on the planet. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >sure it is. have you seen the newer cards? Yup. What about them? They allow higher resolutions more graphical effects and fill-rates, and in some cases anti-aliasing. That doesn't change the fact that there's NO excuse for the game not running reasonably well on a capable 3D card like the Voodoo2 at 640x480 or 800x600. No excuse but shoddy programming. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>Joe62 wrote: >> >> "Colin Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >1) Hasbro claim that the reason for GP3 running slowly is the 2D card. >> >They say that any graphics functions that the Voodoo2 can't do are passed >> >back to the 2D card for processing. >> >> If true, the GP3 really is an outdated tash graphics engine. No other >> game on the planet works this way. > >This of course is nonsense. Only one frame buffer is put on the monitor, >either the 2D card or the V2, but they don't work together.

For once I'm actually glad this turkey came out late here in the U.S. so we could hear from our European friends problems like this before forking out our $ for GP3. No V2 support in GP3 == no sale! 4 years to program this thing and he doesn't even have good support one of the most popular 3D cards in widespread use... Give me a break Geoff. And yes I know my Voodoo2 is getting old, but that's no excuse for the crappy V2 support. I'm actually planning on a new 3D card in a few months, probably a GeForce type card as soon as they improve their FSAA performance in their next chip. --John --

In article <XPSh5.4999$8W5.51635@news2-hme0>, Colin Taylor <[email hidden]> wrote: >release one GPn game each year for the next 4 years. Although they might >not be on the PC, they might be console versions. ... where it belongs. Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In rec.autos.simulators, [email hidden] (Joao "John" Silva) wrote: > No V2 support in GP3 == no sale! When GP3 ran its initial graphics tests, I saw it switch to the Voodoo 2 at one point, and the demo it ran didn't look too bad. -- Andrew Gillett http://argnet.fatal-design.com/ ICQ: See homepage "Your pets may be disembowelled if you do not keep up payments." - Alexei Sayle

[email hidden] (Joe62) writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >sure it is. have you seen the newer cards? > > Yup. What about them? They allow higher resolutions more graphical > effects and fill-rates, and in some cases anti-aliasing. > > That doesn't change the fact that there's NO excuse for the game not > running reasonably well on a capable 3D card like the Voodoo2 at > 640x480 or 800x600. No excuse but shoddy programming.

bull. IMHO it's a perfectly reasonable, acceptable and legitimate to create games for high-end equipment. stop whining, and buy some better gear if things run too slowly. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 silence is FOO!

Bull squared. The game runs fine on mid-range equipment in *software* 3D mode. What it doesn't do is work on the Voodoo2, probably the best known (and still perfectly adequate) 3D card. No excuse for that - poor QA let it slip through. Tony Whitley P.S. What on earth is your sig all about? Should I read it using a Korean font? Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (21 lines)

> [email hidden] (Joe62) writes: > > Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >sure it is. have you seen the newer cards? > > > > Yup. What about them? They allow higher resolutions more graphical > > effects and fill-rates, and in some cases anti-aliasing. > > > > That doesn't change the fact that there's NO excuse for the game not > > running reasonably well on a capable 3D card like the Voodoo2 at > > 640x480 or 800x600. No excuse but shoddy programming. > > bull. IMHO it's a perfectly reasonable, acceptable and legitimate to > create games for high-end equipment. stop whining, and buy some > better gear if things run too slowly. > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > silence is FOO!

"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that..... > > > > how strange. on my p2-400 I get about 3fps. > > Really? I get 15-20 fps on my Celeron 450 @ 640x480 with an ancient 2D card, > hence the original comment.

this is weird. what card, and how ancient? mine is an el crappo Velocity 128. it won't run at all on my Voodoo Graphics (see? I'm not an elitist after all :D). Gunnar; just waiting for that GeForce 2MX. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

"Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > | "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o > m> writes: > | > | > Bull squared. The game runs fine on mid-range equipment in *software* 3D > | > mode. > | > | this must obviously be a meaning of the word "mid-range" I wasn't > | aware of. > | > > > I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that.....

how strange. on my p2-400 I get about 3fps. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

"Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c o m> writes: > Bull squared. The game runs fine on mid-range equipment in *software* 3D > mode. this must obviously be a meaning of the word "mid-range" I wasn't aware of. > P.S. What on earth is your sig all about? Should I read it using a Korean > font? nah, it's just a bunch of stuff. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

"Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... | "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c om> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

| | > Bull squared. The game runs fine on mid-range equipment in *software* 3D | > mode. | | this must obviously be a meaning of the word "mid-range" I wasn't | aware of. |

I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that.....there was even a k6-200 someone had it running on Ash

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that..... > > how strange. on my p2-400 I get about 3fps. >Really? I get 15-20 fps on my Celeron 450 @ 640x480 with an ancient 2D card, hence the original comment. Tony Whitley

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ n S t P l A w M o r l d . c om> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > "Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that..... > > > > > > how strange. on my p2-400 I get about 3fps. > > > > Really? I get 15-20 fps on my Celeron 450 @ 640x480 with an ancient 2D

card, > > hence the original comment. > > this is weird. what card, and how ancient? mine is an el crappo > Velocity 128. it won't run at all on my Voodoo Graphics (see? I'm > not an elitist after all :D). >"S3 Vision 968 PCI" according to Windows. A VideoLogic GrafixStar 700 I believe, sorry to be so vague - I was given the card. > Gunnar; just waiting for that GeForce 2MX.Mmmmm. But when they arrive they'll either run GP3 or GPL but not both, that's the way things seem to be! Tony Whitley

"Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I would call a p2-300 midranged and it runs fine on that... Sort of. IF you have a 12MB Voodoo2 or higher. That's kind of lame. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment