Re: GP3 vs F!2000 Physics

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (rrevved) wrote:

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> On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:54:41 +1000, "Michael Veldman" > <[email hidden]: > > >Thanks for the read rrevved! > > > >I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd > like to > >ask a question. > >Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but the > physics in > >GP3 > >seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully. Even > in > >corners. > > > >Is this the downforce at work? > > > >It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. > > > >Michael > > > >PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the driving > is fun! > > > > Hey, Michael. A modern F1 car has enough downforce from it's > wings, etc., that at top speed, it theoretically could drive, > inverted, on the ceiling... :) Thousands of pounds of downforce are > being > applied by the wings and other aerodynamic aids. In 1967, > during the time of GPL, there were no additional wings, etc. > so the aerodynamic downforce was very, very limited. > > The quick answer is that the modern F1 cars and CART cars, > for example, can corner at extremely high speeds vs. their > 1967 counterparts, due to the wings and better tires, etc.. > > Maybe this is what you were referring to.

Your right rrevved, I remember Martin Brundell (ex F1 driver and current F1 commentator) describing driving an F1 car. He said you cannot believe how fast these cars can go round corners, and how much grip they have. He also said on some circuits (I seem to remember him mentioning the first corner at Silverstone - Copse, and Eau Rouge at Spa) you are going so fast into and around corners, that the drivers have to be totally commited to the car and its cornering abilities, if they weren't, they simply wouldn't take the corner at that speed! Maybe that explains why some people think the car feels likes its on rails, whereas, they do actually have enormous amounts of grip. 8-) *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa.

In article <gJah5.21879$[email hidden]>, "Peter Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Sorry Danny but that is just about the lamest peice of crap I haveever > heard, the difference between a road car and a competition car as achalk is > to cheese. If you think that a road car will behave in the same manneras a > race prepared vehicle of any kind you have obviously never experiencedthe > latter................... > > "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:q19h5.173$[email hidden]... > > God your dumb revved. > > You dont have to have driven a F1 car to comment on how the physicsare. > > If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any carfeels.

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> > GP3 doesnt even feel close to reacting like a car,it feels dead and > > artifical compared to F1 2000,gpl and CPR. > > > > YOu know nothing and i bet you have never driven a real car > > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:29:28 -0700, clone <[email hidden]>

wrote: > > > > > > >I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consiceanswer why > > > >GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > > > > > > > > Not unless they have driven a modern day F1 car. this man is right: I own a car that is built for the circuit and probably the most extreme vehicle to be (just) road legal - it feels like nothing you've ever dreamt of compared to any regular road car but mainly in terms of suspension setup and comfort etc.. its still maybe only 30% towards a proper competition level car. And compared to an F1 car, well who knows, Ive never driven one but it must be like a an old bus by comparison. > > > > > > > > > -- DarDANe][ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

"clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. I can tell you with a clear conscience that F1 2000 is better because it was programmed that way :-) -- [email hidden]

"Michael Veldman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_q9h5.58849$[email hidden]...

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> Thanks for the read rrevved! > > I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd like to > ask a question. > Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but the physics in > GP3 > seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully. Even in > corners. > > Is this the downforce at work?

If you are going at high speeds yes. I think the wings don't have much effect below 60mph (100kph). GP2 truely felt like it was on rails (as in fake), and I would not be surprised to find that GP3 inherited this um.. "feature". -- [email hidden] > It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. > > Michael > > PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the driving is fun! > > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > [snip] > >

"DarDANe][" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m3o4u$lkm$[email hidden]... > I own a car that is built for the circuit and probably the most extreme > vehicle to be (just) road legal - it feels like nothing you've ever > dreamt of compared to any regular road car but mainly in terms of > suspension setup and comfort etc.. its still maybe only 30% towards a > proper competition level car. And compared to an F1 car, well who knows, > Ive never driven one but it must be like a an old bus by comparison. That is why we have to use our best estimate. Obviously 100% of us have never driven a F1 or CART car at competition speeds. So we will always have this fascinating discussion :-) -- [email hidden]

"clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > >just judge for yourself: someone has posted screenshots of both sims to alt.binaries.simulators grtngs, hgrm

please ignore my message. I read graphics instead of physics )-: "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m3rsk$33n$[email hidden]...

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> > "clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > > GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > > > just judge for yourself: someone has posted screenshots of both sims to > alt.binaries.simulators > > grtngs, > hgrm > >

I can't for the life off me understand how someone who has raced openwheelers thinks this is simuler to real racing. As a sim its OK but compared to real life racing it is piss poor. The physics model in GPL is Imho the best and closest there is to real life racing.I agree that you don't have to have driven a F1 to evaluate the physics, but i do think to compare it with real life calls for some openwheeler expierience. If you drove F1 you would definitly think this is total nonsence as it would be commercial suicide to make the sim that realistic(if that where possible)

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: >God your dumb revved. >You dont have to have driven a F1 car to comment on how the physics are. >If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels. >GP3 doesnt even feel close to reacting like a car,it feels dead and >artifical compared to F1 2000,gpl and CPR. >Put on the "dunce cap" and sit in the corner Danny. "If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels." Let me guess,you can speed around in your mini van,so you fancy yourself a an expert on race car dynamics.Have any idea what it feels like to drive a car like this: 800+ hp 19,000+ RPM 0-100 3 seconds deceleration of 75 MPH in 1 second 4 G's lateral load speed in excess of 200 MPH All while laying on your back with your head 24" above the ground. Now give yourself a good spanking and go sit in that corner. Dave K

"Michael Veldman" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. You know what's interesting? Even though the GP3 physics are clearly improved a fair bit from GP2, I'm having a lot more success with GP3. I believe this is a direct result of a lot of GPL driving. I've learned to RESPECT the car. It can be pushed harder than a GPL car, for sure, but I'm constantly aware of weight transfers and so on. Mind you, it is a relief to be able to break hard as I turn into the apex without losing the whole ball of wax! ;-) Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

Full of sh*t! I drive a Sierra (no one laugh pls. I ain't rich) and as part of my job drive anything from 20-30,000 miles per year. One of my richer friends recently spent some inheritance on an AC Shelby Cobra (I went green with envy), He let me take it a couple of miles round the countryside and after driving normal/family cars for 12 years NOTHING I have driven prepared me for the absolute scaryness of driving a performance-level car, and although I had great dreams of tearing around to see what it would be like, I found myself rather disappointly unable to get faster than 50 MPH without feeling I was gonna lose it on the slightest bend, and the Cobra's street legal, So you think your gonna know what an F1 car feels like, like f*ck will you. Alan Danny wrote:

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> > God your dumb revved. > You dont have to have driven a F1 car to comment on how the physics are. > If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels. > GP3 doesnt even feel close to reacting like a car,it feels dead and > artifical compared to F1 2000,gpl and CPR. > > YOu know nothing and i bet you have never driven a real car > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:29:28 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > > >GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > > > > > Not unless they have driven a modern day F1 car. > >

I GOT IT , I GOT IT ! Greg is working for EA Now everything is clear

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>"clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why >> GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > >I can tell you with a clear conscience that F1 2000 is better because >it was programmed that way :-)

The problem with this is, none of us have driven a modern F1 car, and the other problem, is that the programers of these "sims" haven't driven a F1 car either. So, it's all subjective. > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > >

In article <[email hidden]>, rrevved <[email hidden]> writes

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>On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:29:28 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why >>GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. >> > >Not unless they have driven a modern day F1 car. >

Hey revved, I was planning on playing Nigel Mansell's Grand Prix on my Sinclair Spectrum to compare its physics model with that of GP3 to see which was the most realistic, but then I thought, seeing as I've never driven a real F1 how would I have had any way of knowing, so I decided against it. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

God your dumb revved. You dont have to have driven a F1 car to comment on how the physics are. If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels. GP3 doesnt even feel close to reacting like a car,it feels dead and artifical compared to F1 2000,gpl and CPR. YOu know nothing and i bet you have never driven a real car rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:29:28 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > >GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > > Not unless they have driven a modern day F1 car. >

Thanks for the read rrevved! I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd like to ask a question. Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but the physics in GP3 seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully. Even in corners. Is this the downforce at work? It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. Michael PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the driving is fun! "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]>wrote: [snip]

Sorry Danny but that is just about the lamest peice of crap I have ever heard, the difference between a road car and a competition car as a chalk is to cheese. If you think that a road car will behave in the same manner as a race prepared vehicle of any kind you have obviously never experienced the latter................... "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q19h5.173$[email hidden]...

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> God your dumb revved. > You dont have to have driven a F1 car to comment on how the physics are. > If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels. > GP3 doesnt even feel close to reacting like a car,it feels dead and > artifical compared to F1 2000,gpl and CPR. > > YOu know nothing and i bet you have never driven a real car > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:29:28 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > > >GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > > > > > Not unless they have driven a modern day F1 car. > > > >

> If you know how a real car behaves you pretty much know how any car feels. I don't agree. Try to find a decent kart track with high-speed, have to be a licensed driver go-karts and have a go. Even with puny 5.5. hp engines its a totally different feel, particularly in regards to steering, center of gravity, braking, acceleration, suspension, oh wait, this sounds like everything. Driving a street car is dead easy, even if you push it. How often do you have opposite lock in your road car when your tires lose grip through a corner? How many 'corrections' do you have to make on the way work? Does your car slide, get grip, slide again, get grip, slide again, repeatedly as you go through a hairpin like turn? Etc... You'll be suprised...

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:31:21 GMT Jalo <[email hidden]> wrote: % The problem with this is, none of us have driven a modern F1 car, and the % other problem, is that the programers of these "sims" haven't driven a F1 % car either. So, it's all subjective. Papy puts its employees through racing school and try to get them in similar cars to the ones they are programming for. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

"Michael E. Carver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G5ph5.7622$[email hidden]... > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:31:21 GMT Jalo <[email hidden]> wrote: > % The problem with this is, none of us have driven a modern F1 car, andthe > % other problem, is that the programers of these "sims" haven't driven aF1 > % car either. So, it's all subjective. > > > Papy puts its employees through racing school and try to get them in > similar cars to the ones they are programming for. They wish! DK payed his own way. The employees get to pay their own way too if they wish to. And DK didn't do it until after he had done GPL. I remember an interview with him after he first took a racing school and his saying "I've done that in GPL, now I know what it feels like."

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:31:21 GMT, "Jalo" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >The problem with this is, none of us have driven a modern F1 car, and the > >other problem, is that the programers of these "sims" haven't driven a F1 > >car either. So, it's all subjective. > > > > > > Not really. > > In the case of GP3, the Arrows team drivers were used in testing > and tweaking of the final product. That didn't happen, AFAIK, > with F1-2000 and GPL. Some may say that since the Arrows drivers > probably don't race sims very much and therefore have limited > experience with other sims, that they have no basis to judge a > good sim from a bad one. I think that is mostly true, but it has > to be said that GP3 is the only one of the 3 sims I mentioned > (AFAIK) where tweaking of the sim was done with the help of > real F1 drivers.

In the credits for GPL under "Special Thanks" you'll find Jack Brabham, Ron Tauranac and the Skip Barber Racing School. These provided input. Jack and Skip, as I recall, were real F1 drivers. And of course F1RS was done with the help of the Renault team, for whatever that's worth.

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> > >> I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > >> GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > >> > >> > > >

Well if you look at F1 on TV or at the track, you don't see the cars do silky smooth slides through fast corners (like F1-2000) they either go through like on rails or the when the driver is over the edge, the cars suddenly brakes loose at the rear and spins off, or if the driver can respond very quickly it can recover, but then it looks like it's zigzagging with the back end of the car. F1 cars are very twitchy and mostly have a nervous rear end, so I really think GP3 has the better physics, cause it's just way too easy in F1-2000 to catch a loose rear end, and you allmost have to do magic to recover from it in GP3...... Just MHO......... Regards, Roger clone schrieb: > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa.

Of course he IS !! Eric xoc455 wrote:

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> I GOT IT , I GOT IT ! > Greg is working for EA > Now everything is clear > > >"clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me in a clear consice answer why > >> GP3 physics are better than F12000 physics or vice versa. > > > >I can tell you with a clear conscience that F1 2000 is better because > >it was programmed that way :-)

Well who in the hell are you anyway? --

"Tony Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S6Mh5.554$[email hidden]... > Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well the cars grip > and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this than other > sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn't on rails > either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel how closeyou > are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their own decision > and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy to giveand > recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Greg isn't > welcome. Well who in the hell are you anyway? -- [email hidden]

Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well the cars grip and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this than other sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn't on rails either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel how close you are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their own decision and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy to give and recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Greg isn't welcome. Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_6eh5.7971$[email hidden]... > "Michael Veldman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_q9h5.58849$[email hidden]... > > Thanks for the read rrevved! > > > > I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd liketo > > ask a question. > > Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but the physicsin

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> > GP3 > > seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully. Even in > > corners. > > > > Is this the downforce at work? > > If you are going at high speeds yes. I think the wings don't have > much effect below 60mph (100kph). > > GP2 truely felt like it was on rails (as in fake), and I would not > be surprised to find that GP3 inherited this um.. "feature". > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > > > It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. > > > > Michael > > > > PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the driving is

fun!

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> > > > > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > >

Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_6eh5.7971$[email hidden]... > GP2 truely felt like it was on rails (as in fake), and I would not > be surprised to find that GP3 inherited this um.. "feature". I just watched a hotlap in GP3 on Suzuka by David Martinez, and I suggest that anyone who thinks GP3's cars are on rails should watch this hotlap. It's almost obscene the way he throws that car around. The hotlap was on bhmotorsports, and would be surprised if anyone has surpassed it. There weren't too many 2nd or 3rd gear corners where the car wasn't sliding controllably sideways through the corners. Cheers, Rod.

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:45:49 +0200, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: <snip> >Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating... ^_- I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually run 25% races, due to time constraints, so pitting isn't really necessary to finish the game) to see if new tyres will push my lap times back up. Martin D. Pay Still experimenting with GP3's settings...

Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: > snip

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> Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, > because there isn't any. > > What a great simulation!

Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > [flames by other persons and retorts snipped] > > > >Here is what I said to a -current- RL open-wheel race driver, on this > >newsgroup, a couple of days ago, and his response. Judge for yourself > >what he thinks of GP3. > > > >Then, buzz off. > > >challenge! Another thing I > >noticed is that I could weave the car form side to side to warm up my > >tyres and feel in > >complete control; you can't do this in GP2! > > > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, > because there isn't any. >

Hold on a sec - are you suggesting that there is no tire wear in F1-2K? Because if you are, I can send you some real interesting replays. I can't get through a quarter of a race without the tires going kaput in a big way. If anything, there's too much wear. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you? -- s i m a g e r y @ h o t m a i l . c o m

In article <[email hidden]>, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: [flames by other persons and retorts snipped]

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>Here is what I said to a -current- RL open-wheel race driver, on this >newsgroup, a couple of days ago, and his response. Judge for yourself >what he thinks of GP3. > >Then, buzz off. >challenge! Another thing I >noticed is that I could weave the car form side to side to warm up my >tyres and feel in >complete control; you can't do this in GP2!

Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, because there isn't any. What a great simulation! Cheers. Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

I got a lightning-fast qual setup for monza that had a tendancy to 'drift' a bit around corners, but was heavy on the tires, I forgot to change to race-setup and found that my tires were only lasting a max 7-8 laps (over 100% distance too), by lap 11 the car was uncontrollable. Alan Uwe Schuerkamp wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: > >On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > [flames by other persons and retorts snipped] > > >Here is what I said to a -current- RL open-wheel race driver, on this > >newsgroup, a couple of days ago, and his response. Judge for yourself > >what he thinks of GP3. > > > >Then, buzz off. > > >challenge! Another thing I > >noticed is that I could weave the car form side to side to warm up my > >tyres and feel in > >complete control; you can't do this in GP2! > > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, > because there isn't any. > > What a great simulation! > > Cheers. > > Uwe > > -- > Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA > PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: > > > snip > > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and > > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when > > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your > > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up > > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, > > because there isn't any. > > > > What a great simulation! > > Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... >

Maybe Uwe is talking about weaving being useless in warming tyres? Wasn't it Carol Smith that wrote that the only thing weaving accomplishes is to increase the risk of hitting another car? _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:54:14 +0200, [email hidden] (Uwe Schuerkamp) mangled uncounted electrons thus:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >Martin D. Pay <[email hidden]> wrote: >>If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower >>lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume >>it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating... ^_- >> >>I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually > >I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was >implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle >the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of >simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too.

OK I confess my driving style is reminiscent of Graham Hill rather than Jim Clarke... ^_^ (ISTR that Hill went through tyres like mad whereas Clarke made them last... and last... and last...) Martin D. Pay Not bothered either way, to be quite honest...

Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: > snip > > I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was > implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle > the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of > simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too. I guess, I missunderstood. Flat spotting or driver induced tyre wear (weaving) is obviously not implemented. Is there a sim that does? -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

In article <[email hidden]>, BriGuy <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Hold on a sec - are you suggesting that there is no tire wear in F1-2K? >Because if you are, I can send you some real interesting replays. I >can't get through a quarter of a race without the tires going kaput in a >big way. If anything, there's too much wear. Or maybe I'm >misunderstanding you? No, I was on about someone claiming that you could weave the car about in gp3 in order to warm up the tyres. Maybe I misunderstood the previous postand and he was on about f12k, but to me it read like he/she was trying to say that tyre temperature /wear is part of the gp3 physics engine which it is clearly not. sorry if my post caused any confusion, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, Mats Lofkvist <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> writes: >> Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: >> > >> snip >> > Weaving the car about to warm the tyres? Of course you can in GP3, and >> > I am quite sure your -current- RL open-wheel race driver noticed when >> > going back to the pits and checking his/her tyre temperatures. your >> > -current- RL open-wheel race driver must enjoy being able to lock up >> > before every corner without effect on said tyre wear tremendously, >> > because there isn't any. >> > >> > What a great simulation! >> >> Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... >> > >Maybe Uwe is talking about weaving being useless in warming tyres? >Wasn't it Carol Smith that wrote that the only thing weaving >accomplishes is to increase the risk of hitting another car? > > _

The weaving is supposed to get the slippery stuff off the surface of a new set of tyres (that's what some guest-commenting racing driver stated at least). Again I ask Ronald to provide proof that tyre wear is modelled in GP3 if this is in fact what he claims. So far all we have is proof for the opposite: no matter how you abuse the tyres (locking up on every corner, massive wheelspin, etc) has no effect on the longevity of the rubber in GP3. Just claiming that is "IS" modelled is neither productive nor convincing. You might try stomping your foot. ;-) "positive", n: Being wrong at the top of one's voice ("The devil's dictionary") Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, Martin D. Pay <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:45:49 +0200, Ronald Stoehr ><[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: > ><snip> > >>Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... > >If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower >lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume >it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating... ^_- > >I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually

I'm not on about some pre-programmed tyre wear (that even was implemented in F1GP), but real effects according to the way you handle the car. But as very much in that sim is preprogrammed instead of simulated it makes sense to go that route with the tyres, too. Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:11:26 +0100 Martin D. Pay <[email hidden]> wrote: % >Tyre wear IS simulated. Get with the program... % If you mean in GP3, I'd have to agree. I have noticeably slower % lap times after 12 laps or so at high wear circuits. I assume % it's tyres - or my driving is deteriorating... ^_- % I suppose I ought to try pitting for tyres some time (I usually % run 25% races, due to time constraints, so pitting isn't really % necessary to finish the game) to see if new tyres will push my % lap times back up. The question is.... is tire wear modeled and simulated in GP3 (i.e., flat spotting, abuse from agressive driving, etc.) or is the process of tire wear in GP3 "artificially" modeled (for each lap grip is reduced by x amount)? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael E. Carver <[email hidden]> wrote: : The question is.... is tire wear modeled and simulated in GP3 (i.e., : flat spotting, abuse from agressive driving, etc.) or is the process of : tire wear in GP3 "artificially" modeled (for each lap grip is reduced by : x amount)? Somewhere in between I think - I don't think flat spotting etc is modelled but fdifferent set up sdo change the rate of tyre wear. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

In article <lNUh5.11708$[email hidden]>, "Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote: > "Tony Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S6Mh5.554$[email hidden]... > > Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well thecars grip > > and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this thanother > > sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn'ton rails > > either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel howclose > you > > are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their owndecision > > and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy togive > and > > recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Gregisn't

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> > welcome. > > Well who in the hell are you anyway? > > -- > > [email hidden] > 'Big' Tony must have driven lots of 'real' formula 1 cars so that

makes him the 'boss' so there....if you disagree with his opinion,which is obviously right,he'll start throwing his teddy into the corner and tell his mummy/parent/guardian.he might possibly even tell you that your grammar and or spelling are incorect just to prove that he's your superior. take it from me when Tony tells someone off they really stay told off,but good .......BLAH BLAH BLAH................. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <S6Mh5.554$[email hidden]>, "Tony Dale" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Has Greg Cisko, watched a real race on TV and seen how well the carsgrip > and are thrown around the corners????? GP3 goes closer to this thanother > sims that you have to be slow and careful on the bends. GP3 isn't onrails > either... you overdo it and you pay, plus you can see and feel howclose you > are in the grip envelope. Best if Greg lets people make their owndecision > and stay off the NG. We will all run what we like and are happy togive and > recieve constructive comments from anyone, so on that basis, Gregisn't

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> welcome. > > Greg Cisko <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_6eh5.7971$[email hidden]... > > "Michael Veldman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:_q9h5.58849$[email hidden]... > > > Thanks for the read rrevved! > > > > > > I'm a hack at driving sims, and I certainly haven't raced but I'd

like > to > > > ask a question. > > > Not trying to get into an argument between GPL and GP2 but thephysics > in > > > GP3 > > > seems to hold down the car extremely well if driven carefully.Even in

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> > > corners. > > > > > > Is this the downforce at work? > > > > If you are going at high speeds yes. I think the wings don't have > > much effect below 60mph (100kph). > > > > GP2 truely felt like it was on rails (as in fake), and I would not > > be surprised to find that GP3 inherited this um.. "feature". > > > > -- > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > It's just that it feels soooo much different to GPL. > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > PS: I'm disappointed with a few things in the game but the

driving is > fun! > > > > > > > > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:29:42 GMT, "Danny" <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > >Well tony you dont seem 'happy' to 'run with' Gregs personal opinion.Have you been given the job of moderating this forum ? or is it you just dont want to hear anything that you consider to be counter to your opinion. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.