Help with hotlaps

Someone wanted to see a couple of my laps before. I've posted some replays to the binaries group. It's a zipfile with replays from 9 tracks. All except for Kyalami and Zandvoort are PBs. If anyone could give me some tips on getting faster, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred, Could you re-post please, my server is missing parts. Randy On 31 Jul 2000 14:16:59 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>Someone wanted to see a couple of my laps before. I've posted some replays to >the binaries group. It's a zipfile with replays from 9 tracks. All except for >Kyalami and Zandvoort are PBs. If anyone could give me some tips on getting >faster, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > >Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPL hcp. +59.33 > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hey Eldred, Unfortunately only part 4 on my newserver (which is Giganews, normally excellent), maybe 1-3 will appear in the next few hours. Anyway, obvioulsy not looked at your replays so can't comment, plus as a relative GPL newbie who's only just dipped below 50 (49.24 so just above St Eldreds Cup -10sec) I can't be too insightfull, just thought I'd share my recent experience with you. I tend to compare my times to papy benchmark and calculate the percentage shortfal (in most cases) that I am and work on the one were I am the slowest in comparison. I have very little time for GPL so I like to make the most of what little I have. The particular track that was a bit of a bogie (i.e. problem) for me was Mosport and I notice, doing a b2b comparison with you that this is perhaps your "worst" track. I spent about say 40 minutes on it the other day, the first 20 were a joke, didn't even get round in one piece, next 10 mins I switched to external view (as I really didn't have the line through the corners in my mind). In that 10mins I knocked almost 3 secs off my PB, and on switching back to in-car was able to get within a few 10ths of that for the next few laps. The main points are : 1) I was ready to give up on this track. 2) The external view eventually gave me a new insight which I was able to then work with, If I'd had more time I think I could have knocked another second off my time (I'm still over 2secs slower than Papy benchmark). BTW I think I used Alison Hines setup (Lotus). Good Luck (although of course any improvement will see me back in St Eldreds Cup . so don't try too hard :-) BTW, name on GPL not MaXX, look for 49.24 if you want to compare times. MaXX On 31 Jul 2000 14:16:59 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Someone wanted to see a couple of my laps before. I've posted some replays to >the binaries group. It's a zipfile with replays from 9 tracks. All except for >Kyalami and Zandvoort are PBs. If anyone could give me some tips on getting >faster, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > >Eldred

In article <[email hidden]>, MaXX <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>I'm trying to avoid the external view, but I may have to use it just to get >a >>better idea of the line... > >Me too, but I did find it useful when I first got the demo, to see >what the car was doing in the corners, I find it easier to control the >car from the cockpit view and have never really used it since the >demo, but it definitely helped me get the line around Mosport, also >to see what the back end was doing (in terms of compression etc.) >which is not that easy from the cockpit view. > >I havent tried it, but I suspect looking at your own replays from the >external view may give you some insights. >

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant DRIVING in the external view.<shrug> I usually look at the replays from SEVERAL angles - it just doesn't always help. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, MaXX <[email hidden]> writes: >Hey Eldred, > >Unfortunately only part 4 on my newserver (which is Giganews, normally >excellent), maybe 1-3 will appear in the next few hours. >?! I can't attach files to a newsgroup message with AOL(grr...). I had to do it with another ISP and Free Agent. I guess it didn't work very well... :(

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>Anyway, obvioulsy not looked at your replays so can't comment, plus >as a relative GPL newbie who's only just dipped below 50 (49.24 so >just above St Eldreds Cup -10sec) I can't be too insightfull, just >thought I'd share my recent experience with you. > >I tend to compare my times to papy benchmark and calculate the >percentage shortfal (in most cases) that I am and work on the one were >I am the slowest in comparison. I have very little time for GPL so I >like to make the most of what little I have. >

I'm currently at 106.3% at Mosport, and 106.2% at Nurburgring. Next highest percentage is 104.9% at Mexico.

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>The particular track that was a bit of a bogie (i.e. problem) for me >was Mosport and I notice, doing a b2b comparison with you that this is >perhaps your "worst" track. I spent about say 40 minutes on it the >other day, the first 20 were a joke, didn't even get round in one >piece, next 10 mins I switched to external view (as I really didn't >have the line through the corners in my mind). In that 10mins I >knocked almost 3 secs off my PB, and on switching back to in-car >was able to get within a few 10ths of that for the next few laps. > >The main points are : >1) I was ready to give up on this track. >2) The external view eventually gave me a new insight which I was >able to then work with, >

I'm trying to avoid the external view, but I may have to use it just to get a better idea of the line... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred, >?! I can't attach files to a newsgroup message with AOL(grr...). I had to do >it with another ISP and Free Agent. I guess it didn't work very well... :( Look like it didn't, checked this a.m. and no additional parts >I'm currently at 106.3% at Mosport, and 106.2% at Nurburgring. Next highest >percentage is 104.9% at Mexico. Looks like you use the same method. I improved a couple of times yesterday (not posted to GPLRank yet) and my worst is Nurb at 104.67% but it really needs some time to attack that. >I'm trying to avoid the external view, but I may have to use it just to get a >better idea of the line... Me too, but I did find it useful when I first got the demo, to see what the car was doing in the corners, I find it easier to control the car from the cockpit view and have never really used it since the demo, but it definitely helped me get the line around Mosport, also to see what the back end was doing (in terms of compression etc.) which is not that easy from the cockpit view. I havent tried it, but I suspect looking at your own replays from the external view may give you some insights. MaXX

writes: ?! I can't attach files to a newsgroup message with AOL(grr...). I had to do it with another ISP and Free Agent. I guess it didn't work very well... :( I'm currently at 106.3% at Mosport, and 106.2% at Nurburgring. Next highest percentage is 104.9% at Mexico. I'm trying to avoid the external view, but I may have to use it just to get a better idea of the line... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 01 Aug 2000 16:08:51 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: Eldred, >Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant DRIVING in the external view.<shrug> >I usually look at the replays from SEVERAL angles - it just doesn't always >help. Sorry, my earlier comment on Mosport was DRIVING, I find I don't really pick much up from other peoples replays (that helps) as there are so many different styles, and unless you have and use the setup that goes with them, it's counter-productive IMHO. There are 2-blind left-handers, both dropping away at Mosport and I just wasn't getting these at all. Also the jump before the final rt/left/rt I wasn't sure what was happening at the back end. As it was it was jumping quite a bit. I've seen replays were the car is still under accelleration over this and I probably need to do this to get below the papy benchmark, but for the moment I'm off the gas before the jump. Anyway, had a quite day today and yesterday and just took almost 9 secs off my GPLRank, Monaco and Mexico mainly which I'd hardly run on except to get a banker time, almost took another 9secs off with a hotlap of the ring but lost it on the v.fast left hander just before the end, checked it and I was over 9secs up on my previous best. No secret to the above, Monaco was the first lap I'd done without some incident, plus getting the hang of the chicane a little. Mexico again was the first lap that was anywhere near smooth and had the car somewhere near where I wanted it. Took a good 20-30 laps to get to that stage, was getting a little disillusioned. Zandvoort, Spa and Rouen are next on my list, plus another go at the ring. I love Zan but can't seem to get a quick one in, Spa, i've done half laps that if added together would see me 5-6secs quicker, Rouen, again I love but must be doing something wrong somewhere. My approach doesn't help much, the coaches will tell you to start slow and build up bit by bit but I tend to start fast (too fast) and just get slower until I don't have any accidents :-). That's NOT what I told my student however (I was an instructor with Jim Russull School) obviously this is NOT RECOMMENDED in real life :-) Cheers MaXX BTW. Any Jim Russell students out there playing GPL ?????????

In article <[email hidden]>, MaXX <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On 01 Aug 2000 16:08:51 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >Eldred, > > >>Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant DRIVING in the external >view.<shrug> >>I usually look at the replays from SEVERAL angles - it just doesn't always >>help. > >Sorry, my earlier comment on Mosport was DRIVING, I find I don't >really pick much up from other peoples replays (that helps) as there >are so many different styles, and unless you have and use the setup >that goes with them, it's counter-productive IMHO. > >There are 2-blind left-handers, both dropping away at Mosport and >I just wasn't getting these at all. Also the jump before the final >rt/left/rt I wasn't sure what was happening at the back end. As it >was it was jumping quite a bit. I've seen replays were the car is >still under accelleration over this and I probably need to do this to >get below the papy benchmark, but for the moment I'm off the >gas before the jump. >

I *know* I'm off the gas before the jump. If I keep it on the floor, there's NO way I can slow down before the turn. This, Flugplatz(similar jump at the Ring), Masta at Spa, and the chicane at Monaco are spots where the hotshoes are flat out. I can't do it. I can't for the life of me figure out how THEY do it...<scratches head> >Anyway, had a quite day today and yesterday and just took almost 9 >secs off my GPLRank, Monaco and Mexico mainly which I'd hardly >run on except to get a banker time, almost took another 9secs off with >a hotlap of the ring but lost it on the v.fast left hander just before >the end, checked it and I was over 9secs up on my previous best. How are you comparing your laps - GPL race analyzer? I haven't found a 'time difference' in SpyGirl. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, EldredP <[email hidden]> writes <snip>

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>>There are 2-blind left-handers, both dropping away at Mosport and >>I just wasn't getting these at all. Also the jump before the final >>rt/left/rt I wasn't sure what was happening at the back end. As it >>was it was jumping quite a bit. I've seen replays were the car is >>still under accelleration over this and I probably need to do this to >>get below the papy benchmark, but for the moment I'm off the >>gas before the jump. >> >I *know* I'm off the gas before the jump. If I keep it on the floor, there's >NO way I can slow down before the turn. This, Flugplatz(similar jump at the >Ring), Masta at Spa, and the chicane at Monaco are spots where the >hotshoes are >flat out. I can't do it. I can't for the life of me figure out how THEY do >it...<scratches head> >

Just lots of practice and trial and error I would imagine. Like I said in another post about the jump at Mosport, if you turn in early after you land then the car doesn't seem to drift as wide. I checked my PB replay and I do lift just slightly before the rise, dropping 1 mph and then I'm back on the gas doing 176 as I jump, then hard on the brakes and turn in early. Flugplatz is reasonably easy in comparison. No need to lift, just keep away from the left-hand edge, stay nearer the centre, otherwise any slight mistake in line can result in a wheel on the grass and guaranteed disaster. Masta? Nope, I can't take it flat out either. Managed 184 mph through there once, but that was really on the edge and I'm not sure if I got through more by luck than judgement. Monaco I can take the chicane at full throttle, but generally lift slightly as I reach the crest where the chicane first comes into view. Seems that otherwise I can lose the car quite easily. Also a decent ride height will prevent the car from bottoming. BTW, good to see things are improving again, and after you thought you had reached a peak not long ago. The great thing about GPL is that if one technique doesn't work then there are a myriad of other ones to try out in the future until you hit on the one that works for you. :) <snip>

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>Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPL hcp. +59.33 > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

-- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

> Anyone made a 'Ring patch for a Hedwigsh�he sign? ;) Or Steilstrecke? I think there's a sign at the real Ring, between Klostertal and Karusell? That's the name of the steep uphill shortcut from Klostertal to H�he Acht? Hena BTW Laurens, we seem to be on the same mailing list, the Ringers? :)

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes:

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>>I *know* I'm off the gas before the jump. If I keep it on the floor, >there's >>NO way I can slow down before the turn. This, Flugplatz(similar jump at the >>Ring), Masta at Spa, and the chicane at Monaco are spots where the >>hotshoes are >>flat out. I can't do it. I can't for the life of me figure out how THEY do >>it...<scratches head> >> > >Just lots of practice and trial and error I would imagine. Like I said >in another post about the jump at Mosport, if you turn in early after >you land then the car doesn't seem to drift as wide. I checked my PB >replay and I do lift just slightly before the rise, dropping 1 mph and >then I'm back on the gas doing 176 as I jump, then hard on the brakes >and turn in early. >

Ok, you're at least 20mph faster than me there... >Flugplatz is reasonably easy in comparison. No need to lift, just keep >away from the left-hand edge, stay nearer the centre, otherwise any >slight mistake in line can result in a wheel on the grass and guaranteed >disaster. Flat out? Then I can't slow down enough for the following right-hander. > >Masta? Nope, I can't take it flat out either. Managed 184 mph through >there once, but that was really on the edge and I'm not sure if I got >through more by luck than judgement. 175 ONCE. I screwed up one of the later turns, though. I average about 160-165, on a GOOD lap. > >Monaco I can take the chicane at full throttle, but generally lift >slightly as I reach the crest where the chicane first comes into view. >Seems that otherwise I can lose the car quite easily. Also a decent >ride height will prevent the car from bottoming. Out of the laps I ran tonight, I got through the chicane once at full throttle. Then promptly lost it in the next braking area. I have enough problems just getting THROUGH the chicane, let alone at speed... > >BTW, good to see things are improving again, and after you thought you >had reached a peak not long ago. The great thing about GPL is that if >one technique doesn't work then there are a myriad of other ones to try >out in the future until you hit on the one that works for you. :) > It was short-lived. See my other post. :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +52.52 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Peter Ives wrote in message ... >Flugplatz is reasonably easy in comparison. No need to lift, just keep >away from the left-hand edge, stay nearer the centre, otherwise any >slight mistake in line can result in a wheel on the grass and guaranteed >disaster. AFAIK, the spot you get airborne in GPL is called Quiddelbacher H�he. Flugplatz is the high point of the track just before you start your descent towards Schwedenkreutz. And please, no flames if I'm mistaken :) Hena

>the spot you get airborne in GPL is called Quiddelbacher H�he. That's correct. But, where on the real 'Ring you'll see the sign saying "Quiddelbacher H�he," in GPL you'll find the same sign saying "Flugplatz". Go figure. Some of the signs in GPL don't match those at the 'Ring, at least today. Others, amazingly, do: coming out of the final Wippermann right-hander, I aim for the sign for Eschbach in real life as well as in GPL. Except that in GPL it says "Br�nnchen." Oh well. >Flugplatz is the high point of the track just before you start >your descent towards [Schwedenkreuz]. Correct again. I think it's so tempting to believe "Flugplatz" (airfield) is where you get airborne that people move it back a little. Not that it matters... Anyone made a 'Ring patch for a Hedwigsh�he sign? ;) -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

>Or Steilstrecke? I think there's a sign at the real Ring, >between Klostertal and Karusell? It's said to be there but I've never seen it. I'm always working too hard on the double right-hander there to have time to be looking at any signs. (I've also managed to miss a yellow flag and warning triangle planted road-side at Hocheichen for three consecutive laps.) In 25 laps I've yet to take that bend anything near correctly... tips are welcome. :) >BTW Laurens, we seem to be on the same mailing list, the >Ringers? :) Yes, we are. How was your trip? I was there on July 23, talking to some Dutch bikers who were... wearing Kevlar-patched Gore-Tex. Just like you :) -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Laurens de Jong wrote: > Correct again. I think it's so tempting to believe "Flugplatz" > (airfield) is where you get airborne that people move it back a > little. Not that it matters... But in the video "In-Car 956" Derek Bell says "it's vital to clear the Flugplatz well because you've got a double right hander..." He also refers to the Flugplatz as a "famous brow". Wouldn't this indicate at least he is refering to the jump??? -Tony-

> But in the video "In-Car 956" Derek Bell says "it's vital to clear the > Flugplatz well because you've got a double right hander..." > > He also refers to the Flugplatz as a "famous brow". Wouldn't this > indicate at least he is refering to the jump??? Of course he's referring to the jump. But what the man says doesn't necessarily conform with what Dr. Otto Creutz had in mind. This is all going to be very nit-picky and unnecessary, but if anyone's still interested... One disclaimer I'd right away want to make is that I'm not sure how the bends and straight are supposed to be aligned with the signs. I'm assuming that they can't precede the signs, though. So if I'm past a bend and then see a sign that says "Br�nnchen," I'm thinking that that last bend wasn't Br�nnchen, but Eschbach (or unnamed). That out of the way, let me talk about signs only and imply that they mark the beginning of what they refer to. I had to dig deep in my stack of material to come here reasonably well-prepared. Not because said stack is large but because it's badly indexed. Unfortunately, I haven't found a single photograph that shows were the signs were in 1967. But, in the video "Ringmasters," of the 1967 German Grand Prix, there is one tantalizingly short shot that shows the "Flugplatz" sign in the same position it is today (see below). Let me describe the signs again. On the 'Ring of 2000, the sign "Quiddelbacher H�he" is just at the brow, where in GPL it says "Flugplatz"; this makes sense to me, seeing as the literal translation into English is "Quiddelbach High", which it sure is. Quiddelbach of course is the name of a nearby-village. Then the Flugplatz sign is right between the two right-handers that immediately follow the jump. Again, this makes sense to me: nowhere near the brow is there room for an airfield, but here, to the left of the track, there is. Bear in mind we're talking about sailplanes here, although I don't know until when they flew there. Incidentally, there is no sign like this at all in GPL. All the material I have puts Flugplatz further up the track than where it's at in GPL and where even drivers think it is. Just because Derek Bell says it, doesn't make it there; even for him it must have been too tempting to think that where cars take off, it's Flugplatz. And in the same video that gives me the one-frame evidence of the "Flugplatz"-sign's real location in 1967, the voice-over says "over the jump that puts the 'Flug' in Flugplatz." Obviously, when you say "Flugplatz," people think you mean Quiddelbacher H�he. Having said that, I was once discussing the 'Ring's liability to catch the unwary with a 'Ring-virgin at the parking lot there. He drove a Porsche 944, but at a somewhat snaily pace. He said he believed the blind bits on the 'Ring could be taken flat out at his pace. I immediately thought of Quiddelbacher H�he, where the double-right could take the unwary with his right foot planed on the throttle for a surprise. So I said "Well, except for Flugplatz, of course" and walked him to the track map, confidently pointed at the brow-formerly-known-as-Flugplatz only to have him say in surprise "but why does it say Quiddelbacher H�he?" So much for making sense to the 'Ring-virgin... To sum it up: there _is_ a right way of naming bends; but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone understands you. And just when you think they do understand, they don't. Now that I have had time to think about it, the patch I would most like to see for the 'Ring, in terms of signs, goes to "No Racing!" (seen at various places on the 'Ring today). -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands.