Re: In *race no one can hear you scream

I will have to disagree with you here. OK, there is some matter in space, but the amounts are so minute in comparison to the atmosphere say, they is no way the human ear would be able to detect sound because of inteections with them. Thats why 2001 is a 'quiet' movie, in comparison to something like Star Wars. Arthur C Clarke went for realism, whereas Lucus went for 'atmosphere'. Both have their merits. Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m2248$49q$[email hidden]...

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> Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I can't > speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer space. > -- > -Ace- > (GPLRank -0.34) > > Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GY_g5.2721$[email hidden]... > <snip>. > > > > > > This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? > > > > > > Andre > > > > NO! > > Alan > > > > > >

You bring up a VERY good point here! I don't know the answer, but it is definitely worth pondering. -- JB In article <ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]>, "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote: > No, not about Alien (the movie) > Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointingbut I > wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpitwith a > padded helmet. > If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone forrealism over > what some might say, immersive game experience. > We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard,but in

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> reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > games. Yeah or Nay? > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > think? > Alan > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

i agree that it is important for situational awareness, but i remember Damon Hill in 96 almost getting taken out at a corner by Gerhard Berger, bergers car virtually on top of damons car, and damon said after the race it was the first time he'd ever heard another car whilst racing. also, we dont hear other cars on the incar cameras... pez [email hidden] wrote in message <8m1i7k$6a8$[email hidden]>...

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>You bring up a VERY good point here! I don't know the answer, but it >is definitely worth pondering. > >-- JB > >In article <ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]>, > "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> No, not about Alien (the movie) >> Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing >but I >> wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit >with a >> padded helmet. >> If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for >realism over >> what some might say, immersive game experience. >> We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, >but in >> reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) >> Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space >> games. Yeah or Nay? >> Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you >> think? >> Alan >> >> > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy.

You bring up a VERY good point here! I don't know the answer, but it is definitely worth pondering. -- JB Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:00:57 +0100, "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>No, not about Alien (the movie) >Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing but I >wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a >padded helmet. >If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realism over >what some might say, immersive game experience. >We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, but in >reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) >Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space >games. Yeah or Nay? >Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you >think? >Alan > >

Yes, but we need other car sounds to compensate for the loss of situational awareness you would get in a real car. No two ways about it, IMO. -- Nos

No, not about Alien (the movie) Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing but I wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a padded helmet. If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realism over what some might say, immersive game experience. We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, but in reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space games. Yeah or Nay? Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you think? Alan

Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]... . > We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, butin

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> reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > games. Yeah or Nay? > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > think? > Alan >

No, I disagree, because outer space is actually full of various molecules, they just are relatively far apart, much thinner than the air in the stratosphere, but they're there nonetheless. -- -Ace- (GPLRank +0.29)

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? physics -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

This question came up a couple of days ago, I know someone replied saying that in an interview, Michael Schumacher said he could hear the roar of the crowd on one of the circuits, so from that I guess they would hear the sound of another care. Personally i'm still not so sure. Also i've only just got the game (which I think is great so far) and had forgotten about the fact you can't hear the other cars, so it doesn't bother me anyway !!!! Rich. Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]... > No, not about Alien (the movie) > Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing butI > wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a > padded helmet. > If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realismover > what some might say, immersive game experience. > We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, butin

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> reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > games. Yeah or Nay? > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > think? > Alan > >

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:58:17 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >No, I disagree, because outer space is actually full of variousmolecules, > >they just are relatively far apart, much thinner than the air in the > >stratosphere, but they're there nonetheless. > > This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? > > Andre NO! Alan

Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I can't speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer space. -- -Ace- (GPLRank -0.34) Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GY_g5.2721$[email hidden]... <snip>. > > > > This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? > > > > Andre > > NO! > Alan > >

Star wars would have been alot like 2001: A Space Oddysey.... In fact, George Lucas took some heat from various Sci Fi writers for his lack of "science" in the movie. Of course, we all know Star Wars was a WWII air-war movie with differnt models. Lucas knew sound 'made' the show more exciting, not more real. -- dave henrie Free the ICR2 source code! > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > games. Yeah or Nay? > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > think? > Alan > >

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:58:17 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote: >No, I disagree, because outer space is actually full of various molecules, >they just are relatively far apart, much thinner than the air in the >stratosphere, but they're there nonetheless. This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? Andre

Possibly - although the sound of a crowd is somewhat different to the sound of a car engine. It could be possible to have the sound of your own car 'mask' that of others around you, whilst still being able to hear the crowd. G "Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This question came up a couple of days ago, I know someone replied saying > that in an interview, Michael Schumacher said he could hear the roar ofthe > crowd on one of the circuits, so from that I guess they would hear thesound > of another care. Personally i'm still not so sure. Also i've only just got > the game (which > I think is great so far) and had forgotten about the fact you can't hearthe

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> other cars, so it doesn't bother me anyway !!!! > > Rich. > > > Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]... > > No, not about Alien (the movie) > > Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing

but

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> I > > wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a > > padded helmet. > > If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realism > over > > what some might say, immersive game experience. > > We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard,

but

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> in > > reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) > > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > > games. Yeah or Nay? > > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > > think? > > Alan > > > > > >

"Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m2248$49q$[email hidden]...

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> Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I can't > speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer space. > -- > -Ace- > (GPLRank -0.34) >

Your GPL rank is obviously better than your physics degree ;-) Bart Westra

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:00:57 +0100, "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>No, not about Alien (the movie) >Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing but I >wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a >padded helmet. >If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realism over >what some might say, immersive game experience. >We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, but in >reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) >Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space >games. Yeah or Nay? >Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you >think? >Alan >

Hi Alan, Possibly, but when sat in the pits you can hear the other cars go past out on the track, but you don't hear them when they come into the pits and pass you, surely the real drivers can hear them with throttles blipping and then silence. That would really add to the immersion. I think it was just left out along with one or two other things ;-)) Cheers Mark Fisher (Remove the wife to reply)

Nos wrote: > Yes, but we need other car sounds to compensate for the loss of > situational awareness you would get in a real car. No two ways about > it, IMO. > -- > Nos Why? If someone is making a passing manouvre on your car, you should know from your mirrors. Your mirrors also tells you which side he is on. When you can't see him (nor hear him) you are running side by side - the exciting part :) - moments later his back in the mirrors or in front of you. I think this is true in real F1 and in GPx. When do I need to hear the other car? Best regards TIC

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This question came up a couple of days ago, I know someone replied saying > that in an interview, Michael Schumacher said he could hear the roar ofthe > crowd on one of the circuits, so from that I guess they would hear thesound > of another care. Which would raise another question - why can't you hear crowd noises in any F1 sim? If the drivers say they can hear it, then it should be in - but nobody has claimed about that so far... G

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>>Why? >> >>If someone is making a passing manouvre on your car, you should know from >>your mirrors. Your mirrors also tells you which side he is on. When you >>can't see him (nor hear him) you are running side by side - the exciting >>part :) - moments later his back in the mirrors or in front of you. > >I don't have time to be looking in my mirrors continually.

I think there should be sounds too, but I don't agree with your argument. Even if you had a 21" monitor, the mirror can't be THAT far from the track(racing line) you're looking at. You can't see it in your peripheral vision? Sounds like you have tunnel vision... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <e05h5.16096$[email hidden]>, "speed racer" <[email hidden]> writes: >yep, nothing wrong with 2001... the silence was beautiful. I *still* haven't seen that movie yet... :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ace wrote in message <8m1mro$g9r$[email hidden]>... >No, I disagree, because outer space is actually full of various molecules, >they just are relatively far apart, much thinner than the air in the >stratosphere, but they're there nonetheless. Sound requires a medium to propagate, and a few (or few dozen or few hundred) molecules and atoms per cubic centimetre is not a medium in any acoustic sense of the word. In other words, in space no one can hear you scream. Nevertheless, shock waves can propagate in the interstellar medium, particularly following violent events like supernovae, as was observed in 1987 in the Large Magellanic Cloud (a small, neighbouring galaxy). Also, if you're inside a spaceship which is hit by some uber-weapon, you'll definitely hear that when it hits! :) This lesson in astrophysics brought to you by Boring Conversationalists Inc. Bendito;

yep, nothing wrong with 2001... the silence was beautiful. speedracer Gavin Thomas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m27mh$cns$[email hidden]... > I will have to disagree with you here. > > OK, there is some matter in space, but the amounts are so minute in > comparison to the atmosphere say, they is no way the human ear would beable > to detect sound because of inteections with them. > > Thats why 2001 is a 'quiet' movie, in comparison to something like Star > Wars. Arthur C Clarke went for realism, whereas Lucus went for'atmosphere'.

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> > Both have their merits. > > Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas > > "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8m2248$49q$[email hidden]... > > Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I

can't > > speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly > > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outerspace.

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> > -- > > -Ace- > > (GPLRank -0.34) > > > > Alan Coates <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:GY_g5.2721$[email hidden]... > > <snip>. > > > > > > > > This is confusing stuff. Can or can't you hear sounds in space? > > > > > > > > Andre > > > > > > NO! > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:30:09 +0200, "TIC" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Why? > >If someone is making a passing manouvre on your car, you should know from >your mirrors. Your mirrors also tells you which side he is on. When you >can't see him (nor hear him) you are running side by side - the exciting >part :) - moments later his back in the mirrors or in front of you. I don't have time to be looking in my mirrors continually. >I think this is true in real F1 and in GPx. I told you why it is needed. We are not in a real F1 car. Some concessions have to be made. Every sim on the planet except for the GP series has other car sounds.If you had a choice are you saying you would rather have no other car sounds? Me thinks not. >When do I need to hear the other car? When they are on your ass. -- Nos

spoke: What? Read the book first then rent the movie. You'll understand it better that way. -- Nos

So 2001 was a sim and Star wars was arcade? <G> MS

On 31 Jul 2000 14:16:57 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus spoke: >I *still* haven't seen that movie yet... :) What? Read the book first then rent the movie. You'll understand it better that way. -- Nos

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <e05h5.16096$[email hidden]>, "speed racer" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >yep, nothing wrong with 2001... the silence was beautiful. > > I *still* haven't seen that movie yet... :)

Maybe *next* year, huh? <g> -- Chuck Kandler A man is no less a Slave just because he is allowed to choose a new Master every four years. Registered Linux User #180746 http://counter.li.org

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark Fisher <[email hidden]> writes >On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:00:57 +0100, "Alan Coates" <alan.coates@ntlworld >.com> >wrote: ><snip>

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>> > >Hi Alan, > >Possibly, but when sat in the pits you can hear the other cars go past out on >the track, but you don't hear them when they come into the pits and pass >you, >surely the real drivers can hear them with throttles blipping and then silence. >That would really add to the immersion. > >I think it was just left out along with one or two other things ;-)) >Cheers >

Actually the sound of the cars going by on the track whilst you are in the pits is only there for effect. The other cars are not actually passing the pits when you hear those engine sounds. :( -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

So why can you still only hear one car from the tv views with the whole field streaming past in silience? And why does it say on the official GP3 site "industry leading audio including 3d sound". 3d sound it definitely is not. "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ztXg5.2159$[email hidden]... > No, not about Alien (the movie) > Not being able to hear the other cars around you may be dissapointing butI > wonder if F1 drivers hear them IRL. They are low inside a cockpit with a > padded helmet. > If they don't hear other cars then Geoff Crammond has gone for realismover > what some might say, immersive game experience. > We all know that in space games weapon fire and explosions are heard, butin

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> reality this would not be the case IRL (space being a vacumn) > Wonder what the vote would be about outside sounds in F1 sims or space > games. Yeah or Nay? > Consider, Star Wars (original) would be quite a quiet movie, don't you > think? > Alan > >

There have been many reports over the years, from drivers racing in the wet, and how they only know when to brake by listening to the car ahead. The rooster tails and mist thrown up from cars ahead make vision almost impossible sometimes. MS > If someone is making a passing manouvre on your car, you should know from > your mirrors. Like Coulthard saw Schumacher at Spa <G>

> > Thats why 2001 is a 'quiet' movie, in comparison to something like Star > Wars. Arthur C Clarke went for realism, whereas Lucus went for'atmosphere'. > So 2001 was a sim and Star wars was arcade? <G> MS

Well, I guess he couldn't hear him either then ;) -- Ian Parker "Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." <email invalid due to spam> m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4blh5.4219$[email hidden]... > There have been many reports over the years, from drivers racing in the wet, > and how they only know when to brake by listening to the car ahead. The > rooster tails and mist thrown up from cars ahead make vision almost > impossible sometimes. > > MS > > > If someone is making a passing manouvre on your car, you should know from > > your mirrors. > > Like Coulthard saw Schumacher at Spa <G> > >

m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Like Coulthard saw Schumacher at Spa <G> > Hehe.. actually it was the other way around... Shummie couldn't _hear_ slow Davie in in front of him ... <VBG>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>On 31 Jul 2000 23:53:36 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus >spoke: > > >>I think there should be sounds too, but I don't agree with your argument. >Even >>if you had a 21" monitor, the mirror can't be THAT far from the track(racing >>line) you're looking at. You can't see it in your peripheral vision? >Sounds >>like you have tunnel vision... > >No, I don't have tunnel vision.Peripheral vision? WTF is that when you >are looking at a 2D image? There is no such thing as peripheral vision >on a computer monitor. Try some games that use 3D positional audio and >you will see that it helps your situational awareness quite a bit. >MGPRS2 is a good example (need 4 speakers). Do you drive while looking >at your mirrors constantly? Sounds like a good way to get into an >accident. A number of times I have had a car pass me in GP3 that I >didn't even know was there because I couldn't hear it. F1 cars have a >blind spot too you know. Directly behind you.

You totally missed my point, which was that you shouldn't have a problem seeing an image in your mirror while you're driving. I don't NEED to constantly look in my mirrors while driving. I can see the movement in the mirrors, thus I know there's a car behind me. If the mirrors are that poor in GP3, then I don't have any other suggestions. I don't have a 4-speaker system, so I can't try 3D audio. I also don't have GP3, but I was never 'surprised' by a car in GP2, which *also* didn't have AI sounds... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> >> In article <e05h5.16096$[email hidden]>, "speed racer" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >yep, nothing wrong with 2001... the silence was beautiful. >> >> I *still* haven't seen that movie yet... :) > > >Maybe *next* year, huh? <g>

Uh, YEAH, that's the ticket...:) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 31 Jul 2000 23:53:36 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) thus spoke: >I think there should be sounds too, but I don't agree with your argument. Even >if you had a 21" monitor, the mirror can't be THAT far from the track(racing >line) you're looking at. You can't see it in your peripheral vision? Sounds >like you have tunnel vision... No, I don't have tunnel vision.Peripheral vision? WTF is that when you are looking at a 2D image? There is no such thing as peripheral vision on a computer monitor. Try some games that use 3D positional audio and you will see that it helps your situational awareness quite a bit. MGPRS2 is a good example (need 4 speakers). Do you drive while looking at your mirrors constantly? Sounds like a good way to get into an accident. A number of times I have had a car pass me in GP3 that I didn't even know was there because I couldn't hear it. F1 cars have a blind spot too you know. Directly behind you. -- Nos

Well, I got a D in physics, so I may well be wrong on this one. :-) Just out of curiosity though, how is heat transmitted from stars to surrounding planets etc. if not at an atomic/molecular level? -- -Ace- (GPLRank-0.34) Gavin Thomas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8m27mh$cns$[email hidden]... > I will have to disagree with you here. > > OK, there is some matter in space, but the amounts are so minute in > comparison to the atmosphere say, they is no way the human ear would be able > to detect sound because of inteections with them. > > Thats why 2001 is a 'quiet' movie, in comparison to something like Star > Wars. Arthur C Clarke went for realism, whereas Lucus went for 'atmosphere'. > > Both have their merits. > > Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas > > "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8m2248$49q$[email hidden]... > > Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I can't > > speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly > > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer space.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 07:27:07 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) >thus spoke: > > >>Eldred, the more I play GP3, the more I love it. Yesterday I had some >>SERIOUS fun driving a full race at Suzuka. But it happened a couple of >>times to me during that race that I suddenly was rammed or touched >>from behind while I couldn't have seen that there was a car behind me. >>I really had to use the replay feature to find out what the hell >>happened. >>Realistic or not that you hear no sounds around you, a racing sim >>NEEDS other car sounds. > >Thx for confirming the point I was trying to get across to Eldred. Who >is the one who is missing the point and not I. Considering he doesn't >even have GP3 he should stick to talking about what he does have. >

Ha fucking ha. See my reply to Andre. It still wouldn't have prevented this particular accident. Even if you KNOW there's someone behind you, without seeing him in the mirrors, you STILL don't know where he is... So, you can't make a move to avoid contact. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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>On 01 Aug 2000 14:42:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>You totally missed my point, which was that you shouldn't have a problem >seeing >>an image in your mirror while you're driving. I don't NEED to constantly >look >>in my mirrors while driving. I can see the movement in the mirrors, thus I >>know there's a car behind me. If the mirrors are that poor in GP3, then I >>don't have any other suggestions. I don't have a 4-speaker system, so I >can't >>try 3D audio. I also don't have GP3, but I was never 'surprised' by a car >in >>GP2, which *also* didn't have AI sounds... > >Eldred, the more I play GP3, the more I love it. Yesterday I had some >SERIOUS fun driving a full race at Suzuka. But it happened a couple of >times to me during that race that I suddenly was rammed or touched >from behind while I couldn't have seen that there was a car behind me. >I really had to use the replay feature to find out what the hell >happened. >Realistic or not that you hear no sounds around you, a racing sim >NEEDS other car sounds. >

So the AI cars are in 'stealth' mode?<g> Ok, if you had sounds, you'd know he was there. Would that knowledge have prevented him from hitting you? No, I don't have GP3 yet. It will be Aug 22 before it's in the States, and probably another month or two until the price drops enough for me to get it. Get back to me the 1st of November<g> >Andre > >PS Imagine GPL with the changeable weather of GP3... I already have enough trouble in the DRY. :) On all my racing games, I NEVER turn on the weather. The sole exception is SCGT. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +59.33 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Andre Warringa wrote: > snip > > PS Imagine GPL with the changeable weather of GP3... I hate thinking about horror scenarios... ;^) ..as I kill myself often enough without rain in GPL. -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:53:11 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> mangled uncounted electrons thus: <snip> >I watched some in-car shots from a race on the weekend (sports cars), and >every time someone made a pass, he looked in his mirrors about a zillion >(yes, one zillion) times to make sure the pass was good, to know where the >other guy was etc. He relied on his mirrors for this information. I'm not >saying the mirrors in GP2 or GP3 are good enough to do this (there are blind >spots) <snip> Anyone here ever sat in a real F1 car, to say if the blind-spots are accurate? There must *be* blind-spots in an open-wheel racer, just as in any car... Martin D. Pay <EG> Maybe Michael really *didn't* see Gian-Carlo steaming up behind him.... Nah... Don't believe it...

Ace wrote in message <8m7jel$smj$[email hidden]>... >Well, I got a D in physics, so I may well be wrong on this one. :-) Justout >of curiosity though, how is heat transmitted from stars to surrounding >planets etc. if not at an atomic/molecular level? Electromagnetic radiation (e.g. visible light, x-rays, infra-red, radio waves etc), which doesn't require a medium to propagate. Just to be accurate, though, the solar neighbourhood (i.e. where the sun's 9 planets strut their stuff) has a much higher density than the interstellar or intergalactic mediums. Still too little, though, to propagate sound at an audible level. Bendito;

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 01 Aug 2000 14:42:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > >You totally missed my point, which was that you shouldn't have a problemseeing > >an image in your mirror while you're driving. I don't NEED to constantlylook > >in my mirrors while driving. I can see the movement in the mirrors, thusI > >know there's a car behind me. If the mirrors are that poor in GP3, thenI > >don't have any other suggestions. I don't have a 4-speaker system, so Ican't > >try 3D audio. I also don't have GP3, but I was never 'surprised' by acar in

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> >GP2, which *also* didn't have AI sounds... > > Eldred, the more I play GP3, the more I love it. Yesterday I had some > SERIOUS fun driving a full race at Suzuka. But it happened a couple of > times to me during that race that I suddenly was rammed or touched > from behind while I couldn't have seen that there was a car behind me. > I really had to use the replay feature to find out what the hell > happened. > Realistic or not that you hear no sounds around you, a racing sim > NEEDS other car sounds. > > Andre > > PS Imagine GPL with the changeable weather of GP3... >

I watched some in-car shots from a race on the weekend (sports cars), and every time someone made a pass, he looked in his mirrors about a zillion (yes, one zillion) times to make sure the pass was good, to know where the other guy was etc. He relied on his mirrors for this information. I'm not saying the mirrors in GP2 or GP3 are good enough to do this (there are blind spots) but at the same time the sounds alone in GPL, for example, never tell me exactly how close someone else is. I know they are out there "somewhere" but the mirrors are what tell me where they are (or even a look to the left or right). Having other car sounds in GPL has not prevented exactly the scenario you describe. Now, if you want a really lame implementation of other car sounds, fire up F 1WGP. There are cars screaming seemingly in every direction there. Useless. Worse than having no sounds. Stephen

Radiation... infrared/visible/UV/X-ray... the works. Them nuclear furnaces pump out a heck of a lot, 24/7. When it hits something that absorbs it (like a planet) the object is heated. As an experiment put something black (=absorbs most "visible" radiation) out into the sun and notice it's temperature rises well above ambient. Jan. =--- Ace wrote... > Well, I got a D in physics, so I may well be wrong on this one. :-) Justout > of curiosity though, how is heat transmitted from stars to surrounding > planets etc. if not at an atomic/molecular level? > -- > -Ace- > (GPLRank-0.34) >

Electro magnetic radiation. I.e radio waves, light, x-rays and everything inbetween. -Bj�rn "Ace" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:8m7jel$smj$[email hidden]... > Well, I got a D in physics, so I may well be wrong on this one. :-) Justout

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> of curiosity though, how is heat transmitted from stars to surrounding > planets etc. if not at an atomic/molecular level? > -- > -Ace- > (GPLRank-0.34) > > Gavin Thomas <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8m27mh$cns$[email hidden]... > > I will have to disagree with you here. > > > > OK, there is some matter in space, but the amounts are so minute in > > comparison to the atmosphere say, they is no way the human ear would be > able > > to detect sound because of inteections with them. > > > > Thats why 2001 is a 'quiet' movie, in comparison to something like Star > > Wars. Arthur C Clarke went for realism, whereas Lucus went for > 'atmosphere'. > > > > Both have their merits. > > > > Gavin 'Sharknose' Thomas > > > > "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8m2248$49q$[email hidden]... > > > Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, so I > can't > > > speak from experience, but space contains enough free matter (mostly > > > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > > > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer > space. > > >

In article <8m7jel$smj$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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>>> Now, without getting silly; I haven't been to outer space yet, >>>so I can't speak from experience, but space contains enough >>>free matter (mostly gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from >>>one point to another. Theoretically, therefore sounds should >>>be able to be heard in outer space. >Well, I got a D in physics, so I may well be wrong on this one. :-) >Just out of curiosity though, how is heat transmitted from stars to >surrounding planets etc. if not at an atomic/molecular level?

There are 3 methods of transmitting heat. Convection, conduction and radiation. Heat from the sun gets to earth by way of radiation. Think photons. cheers...

On 01 Aug 2000 14:42:23 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>You totally missed my point, which was that you shouldn't have a problem seeing >an image in your mirror while you're driving. I don't NEED to constantly look >in my mirrors while driving. I can see the movement in the mirrors, thus I >know there's a car behind me. If the mirrors are that poor in GP3, then I >don't have any other suggestions. I don't have a 4-speaker system, so I can't >try 3D audio. I also don't have GP3, but I was never 'surprised' by a car in >GP2, which *also* didn't have AI sounds...

Eldred, the more I play GP3, the more I love it. Yesterday I had some SERIOUS fun driving a full race at Suzuka. But it happened a couple of times to me during that race that I suddenly was rammed or touched from behind while I couldn't have seen that there was a car behind me. I really had to use the replay feature to find out what the hell happened. Realistic or not that you hear no sounds around you, a racing sim NEEDS other car sounds. Andre PS Imagine GPL with the changeable weather of GP3...

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> >Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPL hcp. +59.33 > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On the other hand, for a really great implementation of positional sound look at F1 2000. I only have a two speaker setup, but by somehow muffling the voices of the cars that are behind the sim manages to tell me almost exactly where the other cars are relative to me. -Gregor Stephen Ferguson wrote:

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> > I watched some in-car shots from a race on the weekend (sports cars), and > every time someone made a pass, he looked in his mirrors about a zillion > (yes, one zillion) times to make sure the pass was good, to know where the > other guy was etc. He relied on his mirrors for this information. I'm not > saying the mirrors in GP2 or GP3 are good enough to do this (there are blind > spots) but at the same time the sounds alone in GPL, for example, never tell > me exactly how close someone else is. I know they are out there "somewhere" > but the mirrors are what tell me where they are (or even a look to the left > or right). Having other car sounds in GPL has not prevented exactly the > scenario you describe. > > Now, if you want a really lame implementation of other car sounds, fire up F > 1WGP. There are cars screaming seemingly in every direction there. > Useless. Worse than having no sounds. > > Stephen

On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 07:27:07 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) thus spoke:

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>Eldred, the more I play GP3, the more I love it. Yesterday I had some >SERIOUS fun driving a full race at Suzuka. But it happened a couple of >times to me during that race that I suddenly was rammed or touched >from behind while I couldn't have seen that there was a car behind me. >I really had to use the replay feature to find out what the hell >happened. >Realistic or not that you hear no sounds around you, a racing sim >NEEDS other car sounds.

Thx for confirming the point I was trying to get across to Eldred. Who is the one who is missing the point and not I. Considering he doesn't even have GP3 he should stick to talking about what he does have. -- Nos

On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:03:00 +0100, Martin D. Pay <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>I watched some in-car shots from a race on the weekend (sports cars), and >>every time someone made a pass, he looked in his mirrors about a zillion >>(yes, one zillion) times to make sure the pass was good, to know where the >>other guy was etc. He relied on his mirrors for this information. I'm not >>saying the mirrors in GP2 or GP3 are good enough to do this (there are blind >>spots) > ><snip> Anyone here ever sat in a real F1 car, to say if the >blind-spots are accurate? There must *be* blind-spots in an >open-wheel racer, just as in any car... >

From what I have seen and heard on TV, I would say the GP3 mirrors are pretty accurate - look at Shumies accident on Sunday for a good example. Andrew.

OK! Finally, all those years after finishing school, my education is now complete <g> -- -Ace- (GPLRank-0.34) GD <[email hidden]> wrote in message > There are 3 methods of transmitting heat. > Convection, conduction and radiation. > > Heat from the sun gets to earth by way of radiation. > Think photons. > > > cheers... > > > > >

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:56:06 +0100, in rec.autos.simulators you wrote: >Actually the sound of the cars going by on the track whilst you are in >the pits is only there for effect. The other cars are not actually >passing the pits when you hear those engine sounds. :( I often felt that way too, but have often left the pit lane hearing one or two cars go past and as I enter the track seen them driving away, so maybe, maybe not <G> Cheers Mark Fisher (Remove the wife to reply)

In article <[email hidden]>, Mark Fisher <[email hidden]> writes

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>On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:56:06 +0100, in rec.autos.simulators you wrote: > >>Actually the sound of the cars going by on the track whilst you are in >>the pits is only there for effect. The other cars are not actually >>passing the pits when you hear those engine sounds. :( > >I often felt that way too, but have often left the pit lane hearing one or two >cars go past and as I enter the track seen them driving away, so maybe, >maybe >not <G>

Pure coincidence. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Following on from this, I guess that it's theoretically possible to paddle a canoe across a rain cloud then <G> MS space contains enough free matter (mostly > gaseous) for energy to be transmitted from one point to another. > Theoretically, therefore sounds should be able to be heard in outer space.