Re: GP3 SpinOuts

I had the same problem for the first couple of hours. You need to be very light on the gas pedal and the steering coming out of the slow corners. Maybe reducing controller sensitivities or wheel lock might be helpful ? "BLADE" <[email hidden]> wrote: > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car >wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes*************************************************************************************** * Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so... * Glenn Davies * * Drink up, the world's about to end ! * [email hidden] * ***************************************************************************************

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:06:01 -0500, rrevved > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Do you disagree with this logic, or are you just entering > >'fuckhead mode'? > > Would that be the same mode you are permanently in Ed? :-) > Don't bother, I beat you to it. > > *plonk*

Hey, you can't do that. That's his job, dammit! ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:32:33 GMT, [email hidden] mangled uncounted electrons thus:

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>On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:07:52 -0500, rrevved ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >>>*plonk* >> >>Wow. >> >>O.K. >> > >I use Free Agent so I can't *plonk* you. Damn! :-)

<EG> Buy the full version, then... Martin D. Pay Agent is the most used piece of software I have on my system...

The West Brothers must think GPL is by far the easiest sim to drive, as it is the most realistic. Didnt they say something like "The more realistic, the easier it becomes to drive'.

In article <L75g5.53204$[email hidden]>, "BLADE" <[email hidden]> writes: > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car >wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt >have the simultation >of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of >setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wow what >a great handling sim, You think F1 2K is a great handling sim? What kind of system do you have? And out of curiousity, how did you manage driving in GPL? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.01 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Like what? You think F12K is better than GP3? On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:07:07 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

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>On 28 Jul 2000 01:46:16 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus >spoke: > > >>Still, if you're happy with F12K, good for you.... explains a lot though >> > >Like what? You think GP3 is better than F12K?

Hmm...either you: A) Totally suck at driving or B) have your throttle and brake set to be like a button instead of being an analog control, and therefore you are giving the car either 0% or 100% throttle at all times and you are spinning the tires. I'm going to guess the problem is B, but A could coincide with this. :-) j/k (BASING THIS ENTIRELY OFF GP2 AS MY COPY OF GP3 HAS NOT YET ARRIVED) Check your control settings to see if it has throttle control set at Analog or (what I believe it is referred to as...) Switched. You want Analog control.

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> This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car >wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt >have the simultation >of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of >setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wow what >a great handling sim, i think gp3 needs alot of patches, (like a damn >unfinished quilt) , for now f12000 is the shit, I cant wait another for >another 4 years to go by , I think the guy was short on cash and started the >gp3 project last month, it doesnt take 4 years to code crap like >there trying to sell us,and thats what it is, CRAP!. > I think they need to sit down and re"evaulate the game game as a whole, >And quit worring about weather its gunna rain or not, Becuse when it rains >it pours, > and old crammond is trying to get rich on a two month project

----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrash.00game.com

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:14:19 GMT, "BLADE" <[email hidden]> wrote: > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car >wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt >have the simultation >of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, You should really try GPL... :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt have the simultation of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wow what a great handling sim, i think gp3 needs alot of patches, (like a damn unfinished quilt) , for now f12000 is the shit, I cant wait another for another 4 years to go by , I think the guy was short on cash and started the gp3 project last month, it doesnt take 4 years to code crap like there trying to sell us,and thats what it is, CRAP!. I think they need to sit down and re"evaulate the game game as a whole, And quit worring about weather its gunna rain or not, Becuse when it rains it pours, and old crammond is trying to get rich on a two month project

Don't suppose you adjusted your controller settings. Hmmm, checking out all those hotlaps where people are giving it gas in the corners and no spins. Still, if you're happy with F12K, good for you.... explains a lot though

Moron BLADE wrote:

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> > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car > wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt > have the simultation > of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of > setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wow what > a great handling sim, i think gp3 needs alot of patches, (like a damn > unfinished quilt) , for now f12000 is the shit, I cant wait another for > another 4 years to go by , I think the guy was short on cash and started the > gp3 project last month, it doesnt take 4 years to code crap like > there trying to sell us,and thats what it is, CRAP!. > I think they need to sit down and re"evaulate the game game as a whole, > And quit worring about weather its gunna rain or not, Becuse when it rains > it pours, > and old crammond is trying to get rich on a two month project

Ditto

"Dan Belcher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hmm...either you: > A) Totally suck at driving > or > B) have your throttle and brake set to be like a button instead of beingan > analog control, and therefore you are giving the car either 0% or 100%throttle > at all times and you are spinning the tires. > I'm going to guess the problem is B, but A could coincide with this. :-)j/k > (BASING THIS ENTIRELY OFF GP2 AS MY COPY OF GP3 HAS NOT YET ARRIVED)Check > your control settings to see if it has throttle control set at Analog or(what > I believe it is referred to as...) Switched. You want Analog control. Or C) GP3 completely sucks. Read the High Gear interview and see what the West Bros. think of GP3, as well as John Crooke. Jon

On 28 Jul 2000 01:46:16 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Still, if you're happy with F12K, good for you.... explains a lot though > Like what? You think GP3 is better than F12K? -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:52:28 GMT, Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Moron > >BLADE wrote: The guy isn't so far off the mark with his comments. Maybe you should go read the below interview and be enlightened. Pay attention to the comments by John Crooke at the bottom of the below url. http://www.simracingnews.com/newscenter/e3/articles/westracing/page5.shtml -- Nos

I think it's safe to say that everyone else isn't spinning at every corner. Have you got a steering wheel? If not then it might help to get one. If you are already using an anolgue brake/throttle then try to be smoother applying the throttle. Or else try turning on traction control. "BLADE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:L75g5.53204$[email hidden]... > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner thecar > wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This simdoesnt > have the simultation > of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of > setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wowwhat > a great handling sim, i think gp3 needs alot of patches, (like a damn > unfinished quilt) , for now f12000 is the shit, I cant wait another for > another 4 years to go by , I think the guy was short on cash and startedthe

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> gp3 project last month, it doesnt take 4 years to code crap like > there trying to sell us,and thats what it is, CRAP!. > I think they need to sit down and re"evaulate the game game as a whole, > And quit worring about weather its gunna rain or not, Becuse when it rains > it pours, > and old crammond is trying to get rich on a two month project > > >

its amazing how things this guy claims he can't do with his superlative Hyperstim controller, CAN be done with a LWFF. Its also amazing how you could go to his stand, ask him what he thinks of GP3 runing on his hyperstim and see a totally different response! [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:52:28 GMT, Thomas JS Brown <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > >Moron > > > >BLADE wrote: > > The guy isn't so far off the mark with his comments. Maybe you should > go read the below interview and be enlightened. Pay attention to the > comments by John Crooke at the bottom of the below url. > >

http://www.simracingnews.com/newscenter/e3/articles/westracing/page5.shtml > -- > Nos >

Yep, they weren't sure what the sim was going to do at any point. They must have used John Crookes Hyperstim because you sure as hell know whats happening with a LWFF! and you can wheelspin on the grid without spinning off, and you can wheel spin in turns without spining off..... But your convinced, so thats all that counts Jon Van Ginneken <[email hidden]> wrote in article <y16g5.490$[email hidden]>...

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> > Or > C) GP3 completely sucks. > > Read the High Gear interview and see what the West Bros. think of GP3, as > well as John Crooke. > > Jon > > >

On 28 Jul 2000 03:54:33 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Yep, they weren't sure what the sim was going to do at any point. They must >have used John Crookes Hyperstim because you sure as hell know whats >happening with a LWFF! and you can wheelspin on the grid without spinning >off, and you can wheel spin in turns without spining off..... But your >convinced, so thats all that counts I'm concinced too. How much experience do *you* have driving formula series cars compared to John Crooke? -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:18:17 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Like what? You think F12K is better than GP3? In some ways, yes it is. -- Nos

On 28 Jul 2000 03:51:24 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >its amazing how things this guy claims he can't do with his superlative >Hyperstim controller, CAN be done with a LWFF. Its also amazing how you >could go to his stand, ask him what he thinks of GP3 runing on his >hyperstim and see a totally different response! What was his response? -- Nos

"Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01bff848$25d038c0$5bf10fd2@predator... > Yep, they weren't sure what the sim was going to do at any point. Theymust > have used John Crookes Hyperstim because you sure as hell know whats > happening with a LWFF! and you can wheelspin on the grid without spinning > off, and you can wheel spin in turns without spining off..... But your > convinced, so thats all that counts Yes I am convinced because people like the West Bros., John Crooke, and most of all Dave Kaemmer believe that your wheel doesn't cut it....I hold Kaemmer's word than your's. And yes, I do know that GP3 is not as canned as GP2...but it's still so fake compared to reality, and that's what their point was. Also even if the hyperstim had the most realistic ffb in the world I would never buy it so I could take Crooke's comments with a grain of salt, but when everyone else in the industry says the products out there are not good enough I'll take their word on it (although I do love how the LWFF feels in the hands)....but the bottom line is GP3 is not worth 4 years of effort, we have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) that have done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. Jon

Does it matter. Hey if I got into an F2 he'd kick my arse. So what, this is PC Sim territory (and no matter how much GPL fanatics like to think otherwise, they are worlds apart! and always will be). That being said, I can only state what is possible versus what he claims is not possible. Controlled wheel spin is possible in GP3, maybe not with a hyperstim! I remember when he came into this group advertising about hyperstim and GP3 at melbourne GP, he got flamed off the board. Now he has a valued opinion! [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On 28 Jul 2000 03:54:33 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Yep, they weren't sure what the sim was going to do at any point. Theymust > >have used John Crookes Hyperstim because you sure as hell know whats > >happening with a LWFF! and you can wheelspin on the grid withoutspinning

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> >off, and you can wheel spin in turns without spining off..... But your > >convinced, so thats all that counts > > I'm concinced too. How much experience do *you* have driving formula > series cars compared to John Crooke? > -- > Nos >

Question is do you think POS F is better than POS G? It shouldn't matter, they don't even stack up against the best thing out there. And yes as much as F12k was bad it was a better attempt than GP3. Sorry, but I don't believe this BS that GP2 was good enough and only needed modifications because then that would only validate the reproductions of N2 since that was a better NASCAR sim than GP2 was an F1 sim... "clone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Like what? You think F12K is better than GP3? Jon

> You think F1 2K is a great handling sim? What kind of system do you have? And > out of curiousity, how did you manage driving in GPL? Problem for me (MSFF wheel, gameport version) is that just touching the gas pedal gives about 20 % of total throttle (even when i have 100 % in low sensit. setting). That leads to some power-on understeer and makes corner exits more or less uncontrollable. Full throttle is maybe 1 cm of pedal travel. In gpl you have proper pedal travel which makes smooth acceleration possible (same applies to braking). Split axis would cure part of the problem but it won't remove ragged feeling completely. I would never have believed, but gpl cars are 'pussycats' in handling compared to most of the sims in market. -Marko

rrevved wrote:

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> > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:13:41 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Read the High Gear interview and see what the West Bros. think of GP3, as > >well as John Crooke. > > > >Jon > > > > Here's a quote from the interview: > > "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > > If he has trouble keeping GP3 on a 'straight' without spinning, > he must hate GPL. > > His comments were pure crap. IMO, of course.

and i couldn't agree with him more. IMO the analog controller is made for the joysticks not for pedals, which makes initial throttle application too violent. BTW, i have no problems whatsoever in gpl.

On 28 Jul 2000 06:26:05 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Does it matter. Hey if I got into an F2 he'd kick my arse. So what, this is >PC Sim territory (and no matter how much GPL fanatics like to think >otherwise, they are worlds apart! and always will be). That being said, I >can only state what is possible versus what he claims is not possible. >Controlled wheel spin is possible in GP3, maybe not with a hyperstim! > >I remember when he came into this group advertising about hyperstim and GP3 >at melbourne GP, he got flamed off the board. Now he has a valued opinion!

That is not the point I'm making. What I'm pointing out is the comments by him and the West brothers that GP3 is not even close to how a F1 car handles. As the originator of this thread said, it spins out too easily for one thing. From their comments I would say F1 2000 is probably closer to the real thing. -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:53:06 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >His comments were pure crap. IMO, of course. > Do you have 30 years of experience? Admit it, you just hate seeing something you like get trashed. A 1967 F car does not drive anything like todays cars so I think he is probably not too far off the mark. That doesn't mean I don't like GP3 btw. -- Nos

Ditto

spoke: Like what? You think GP3 is better than F12K? -- Nos

spoke: In some ways, yes it is. -- Nos

spoke: What was his response? -- Nos

says... That's a curious statement. Without Crammond, there would have been no GP2!! Cheers, Rod.

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:06:01 -0500, rrevved Would that be the same mode you are permanently in Ed? :-) Don't bother, I beat you to it. *plonk* -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:07:52 -0500, rrevved I use Free Agent so I can't *plonk* you. Damn! :-) -- Nos

The original point to this discussion was, you said the WestBros slagged off GP3. So to me it appears you have over reacted. You have based this statement on the fact that the interviewer states that they laughed, after a former F2 champion says in good humour he couldnt keep the car straight. That does not sound like slagging off to me, especially as they praised other aspects of the game. > >You just can be wrong can you. Have you ever considerd that it may just be a > >funny situation that Mr Crooke was explaining, and they were just enjoying > >themselves, or do you really believe they were all having a good old laugh > >about GP3, I suspect if it was a slag of GP3 chat that there would have been > >a lot more to it. The rest of the interview is full of laughs and good > >humour, but you have just assumed, wrongly in my opinion that they > >(WestBros) hated GP3. > "You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact."

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> Sounds to me like they think GP3 is a joke. I find -them- really > humorous since they have -never- produced a sim. > I will be the -first- to congratulate them if they pull off what > they are working on, but maybe between now and then they > should go code or something. > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:21 +0100, "Mike Cain" > >> >Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is from > >Jon > >> >Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont want to > >take > >> >it back? > >> Were they laughing? > >> >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:47:14 +0100, "Mike Cain" > >> >> >I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt

see > >the > >> >> >WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 and GPL, > >and > >> >I > >> >> >do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt done anything, > >so > >> >> >they had to prove themselves yet. > >> >> They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > >> >> "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > >> >> But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at ? of the > >> >> limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > >> >> drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > >> >> smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > >> >> The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > >> >> 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > >> >> you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > >> >> thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > >> >> never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > >> >> corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > >> >> >So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? > >> >> Nope.

What you're experiencing is called over steer, caused by to little rear wing or too much front wing. Or as mentioned earlier it could be you're controller config. BLADE wrote:

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> > This sim is the best spinout sim ive ever ran, every damn corner the car > wants to spin out, Give it a little gas and around she goes, This sim doesnt > have the simultation > of a f1 car, It simulates going around in circles, I tried all kinds of > setups the game and it just sucks to run, I went back to F12000 and wow what > a great handling sim, i think gp3 needs alot of patches, (like a damn > unfinished quilt) , for now f12000 is the shit, I cant wait another for > another 4 years to go by , I think the guy was short on cash and started the > gp3 project last month, it doesnt take 4 years to code crap like > there trying to sell us,and thats what it is, CRAP!. > I think they need to sit down and re"evaulate the game game as a whole, > And quit worring about weather its gunna rain or not, Becuse when it rains > it pours, > and old crammond is trying to get rich on a two month project

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:06:01 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >So, do you want to keep on being non-objective? > The point I was making, which was lost on you BTW, is that a contempory F1 car is not going to spin out anywhere as easily as a 1967 F1. So how is you saying he is going to have problems with GPL relevant to the discussion at hand? Maybe your controller is less sensitive than mine, but I find the GP3 cars also over senesitive to throttle and brakes. In fact my brakes are so sensitive that the wheels lock up with just a touch of the brake pedal. Yes, I've tried adjusting the sensitivity with no luck. I'm not the only one with this problem because in another thread people with the same wheel also have the same problem. Have you ever considered that maybe this problem is controller specific? Don't assume that just because it's great for you that it is for everyone. Doh! -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:16:49 -0700, clone <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >The West Brothers must think GPL is by far the easiest sim to drive, >as it is the most realistic. Didnt they say something like "The more >realistic, the easier it becomes to drive'. That depends on the car you are modelling, don't you think? The same can be said for flight-sims. An F16 is extremely easy to fly, but a Spitfire can be a bitch due to torque etc. -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:06:01 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Do you disagree with this logic, or are you just entering >'fuckhead mode'? Would that be the same mode you are permanently in Ed? :-) Don't bother, I beat you to it. *plonk* -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:20:13 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]> wrote: >....but the bottom line is GP3 is not worth 4 years of effort, we >have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) that have >done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. You know, it doesn't help your credibility if you write bullshit. Keep with the facts and remain a little *reasonable* and maybe people will value your posts. JoH

rrevved wrote:

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> > Here's a quote from the interview: > > "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > > If he has trouble keeping GP3 on a 'straight' without spinning, > he must hate GPL. > > His comments were pure crap. IMO, of course.

Maybe not. He may be having controller issues causing this behavior. I've read more than one opinion in here where those involved had controller setup/calibration problems. -- Chuck Kandler Windows is just a virus with a GUI

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:07:52 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >>*plonk* > >Wow. > >O.K. > I use Free Agent so I can't *plonk* you. Damn! :-) -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:00:56 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>[sigh] > >It is -extremely- relevant. He dissed GP3 since he couldn't >drive it in a 'straight line', without spinning out. Does that >seem odd to you? I have ZERO problems driving GP3 in >a straight line and the power on wheelspin yaw is correctable. >GP3, IMO, feels a lot like GPL when accelerating from a standing >start and continuing on up through the first couple of gears.

I can drive GPL without spinning out on a straight, but I have spun out easily in GP3 because the sensitivity settings of the throttle are porked in GP3 for me and/or you hit a certain point of losing traction and it just goes 180. Doesn't that seem a little odd? An F1 1998 car spins out easier than a 1967 F1 car? Odd indeed. >My comment was meant to imply that if he is whining about >the lack of traction, etc., in GP3, that he ain't gonna >like GPL since it has very little traction. See my comments above. >Surely you can grok this. See my comments above. >And I hope you won't consider that because GP3 is crap for you, >due to a problem with support for your controller, that it >isn't a great feeling sim for others. I never said it was crap did I? The only real complaints I have are the controller issue, no sounds for other cars (this really pissed me off) and the AI is a bit duff. Otherwise I quite like it. BTW, I snipped your first post because I was just replying to the very last comment you made about JC. I think considering his experience he deserves a bit more credit than you gave him. -- Nos

Same wheel, no problem here. Try downloading the MSFF wheel controller set from http://www.bhmotorsports.com they work well. -- Ian Parker "Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." <email invalid due to spam> Marko Suokas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > You think F1 2K is a great handling sim? What kind of system do you have? And > > out of curiousity, how did you manage driving in GPL? > > Problem for me (MSFF wheel, gameport version) is that just touching the > gas pedal gives about 20 % of total throttle (even when i have 100 % in > low sensit. setting). That leads to some power-on understeer and makes > corner exits more or less uncontrollable. Full throttle is maybe 1 cm of > pedal travel. In gpl you have proper pedal travel which makes smooth > acceleration possible (same applies to braking). Split axis would cure > part of the problem but it won't remove ragged feeling completely. I > would never have believed, but gpl cars are 'pussycats' in handling > compared to most of the sims in market. > > -Marko

I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt see the WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 and GPL, and I do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt done anything, so they had to prove themselves yet. So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:42:13 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:00:56 -0500, rrevved > ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > > >>[sigh] > >> > >>It is -extremely- relevant. He dissed GP3 since he couldn't > >>drive it in a 'straight line', without spinning out. Does that > >>seem odd to you? I have ZERO problems driving GP3 in > >>a straight line and the power on wheelspin yaw is correctable. > >>GP3, IMO, feels a lot like GPL when accelerating from a standing > >>start and continuing on up through the first couple of gears. > > > >I can drive GPL without spinning out on a straight, but I have spun > >out easily in GP3 because the sensitivity settings of the throttle are > >porked in GP3 for me and/or you hit a certain point of losing traction > >and it just goes 180. Doesn't that seem a little odd? An F1 1998 car > >spins out easier than a 1967 F1 car? Odd indeed. > > > >>My comment was meant to imply that if he is whining about > >>the lack of traction, etc., in GP3, that he ain't gonna > >>like GPL since it has very little traction. > > > >See my comments above. > > > >>Surely you can grok this. > > > >See my comments above. > > > > > >>And I hope you won't consider that because GP3 is crap for you, > >>due to a problem with support for your controller, that it > >>isn't a great feeling sim for others. > > > >I never said it was crap did I? The only real complaints I have are > >the controller issue, no sounds for other cars (this really pissed me > >off) and the AI is a bit duff. Otherwise I quite like it. BTW, I > >snipped your first post because I was just replying to the very last > >comment you made about JC. I think considering his experience he > >deserves a bit more credit than you gave him. > > If he has a controller problem, maybe he should try another controller. > I have none, zero, nada, zip, of the problems you and he are having. > The control of the car is as smoothly done as GPL, IMO. I'm not talking > about the overall reality of the physics engine, I'm talking about > control of the car. > > Also, one developer slagging off another developer is a little > reminiscent of Derek Smart, don't you agree? Particularly > when the West Bros. haven't released -any- sims, AFAIK. > > I hope the West Bros. aren't trying to create > "The Last Racing Sim You Will Ever Desire" .. :) > > I saw your post about not being able to plonk in Free Agent. > Good, I can hammer on you some more.. j/k > > :) >

At least they are trying to produce something that may be good. But it seems that on this group you cant even try and do something creative without being attacked. "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:42:13 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:00:56 -0500, rrevved > ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > > >>[sigh] > >> > >>It is -extremely- relevant. He dissed GP3 since he couldn't > >>drive it in a 'straight line', without spinning out. Does that > >>seem odd to you? I have ZERO problems driving GP3 in > >>a straight line and the power on wheelspin yaw is correctable. > >>GP3, IMO, feels a lot like GPL when accelerating from a standing > >>start and continuing on up through the first couple of gears. > > > >I can drive GPL without spinning out on a straight, but I have spun > >out easily in GP3 because the sensitivity settings of the throttle are > >porked in GP3 for me and/or you hit a certain point of losing traction > >and it just goes 180. Doesn't that seem a little odd? An F1 1998 car > >spins out easier than a 1967 F1 car? Odd indeed. > > > >>My comment was meant to imply that if he is whining about > >>the lack of traction, etc., in GP3, that he ain't gonna > >>like GPL since it has very little traction. > > > >See my comments above. > > > >>Surely you can grok this. > > > >See my comments above. > > > > > >>And I hope you won't consider that because GP3 is crap for you, > >>due to a problem with support for your controller, that it > >>isn't a great feeling sim for others. > > > >I never said it was crap did I? The only real complaints I have are > >the controller issue, no sounds for other cars (this really pissed me > >off) and the AI is a bit duff. Otherwise I quite like it. BTW, I > >snipped your first post because I was just replying to the very last > >comment you made about JC. I think considering his experience he > >deserves a bit more credit than you gave him. > > If he has a controller problem, maybe he should try another controller. > I have none, zero, nada, zip, of the problems you and he are having. > The control of the car is as smoothly done as GPL, IMO. I'm not talking > about the overall reality of the physics engine, I'm talking about > control of the car. > > Also, one developer slagging off another developer is a little > reminiscent of Derek Smart, don't you agree? Particularly > when the West Bros. haven't released -any- sims, AFAIK. > > I hope the West Bros. aren't trying to create > "The Last Racing Sim You Will Ever Desire" .. :) > > I saw your post about not being able to plonk in Free Agent. > Good, I can hammer on you some more.. j/k > > :) >

Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is from Jon Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont want to take it back? "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:47:14 +0100, "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt see the > >WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 and GPL, andI

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> >do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt done anything, so > >they had to prove themselves yet. > > > > They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > > "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > > > >So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? > > > > Nope. > > >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:42:13 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > >> > >> >On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:00:56 -0500, rrevved > >> ><[email hidden]> thus spoke: > >> > > >> > > >> >>[sigh] > >> >> > >> >>It is -extremely- relevant. He dissed GP3 since he couldn't > >> >>drive it in a 'straight line', without spinning out. Does that > >> >>seem odd to you? I have ZERO problems driving GP3 in > >> >>a straight line and the power on wheelspin yaw is correctable. > >> >>GP3, IMO, feels a lot like GPL when accelerating from a standing > >> >>start and continuing on up through the first couple of gears. > >> > > >> >I can drive GPL without spinning out on a straight, but I have spun > >> >out easily in GP3 because the sensitivity settings of the throttle are > >> >porked in GP3 for me and/or you hit a certain point of losing traction > >> >and it just goes 180. Doesn't that seem a little odd? An F1 1998 car > >> >spins out easier than a 1967 F1 car? Odd indeed. > >> > > >> >>My comment was meant to imply that if he is whining about > >> >>the lack of traction, etc., in GP3, that he ain't gonna > >> >>like GPL since it has very little traction. > >> > > >> >See my comments above. > >> > > >> >>Surely you can grok this. > >> > > >> >See my comments above. > >> > > >> > > >> >>And I hope you won't consider that because GP3 is crap for you, > >> >>due to a problem with support for your controller, that it > >> >>isn't a great feeling sim for others. > >> > > >> >I never said it was crap did I? The only real complaints I have are > >> >the controller issue, no sounds for other cars (this really pissed me > >> >off) and the AI is a bit duff. Otherwise I quite like it. BTW, I > >> >snipped your first post because I was just replying to the very last > >> >comment you made about JC. I think considering his experience he > >> >deserves a bit more credit than you gave him. > >> > >> If he has a controller problem, maybe he should try another controller. > >> I have none, zero, nada, zip, of the problems you and he are having. > >> The control of the car is as smoothly done as GPL, IMO. I'm not talking > >> about the overall reality of the physics engine, I'm talking about > >> control of the car. > >> > >> Also, one developer slagging off another developer is a little > >> reminiscent of Derek Smart, don't you agree? Particularly > >> when the West Bros. haven't released -any- sims, AFAIK. > >> > >> I hope the West Bros. aren't trying to create > >> "The Last Racing Sim You Will Ever Desire" .. :) > >> > >> I saw your post about not being able to plonk in Free Agent. > >> Good, I can hammer on you some more.. j/k > >> > >> :) > >> > > >

You just can be wrong can you. Have you ever considerd that it may just be a funny situation that Mr Crooke was explaining, and they were just enjoying themselves, or do you really believe they were all having a good old laugh about GP3, I suspect if it was a slag of GP3 chat that there would have been a lot more to it. The rest of the interview is full of laughs and good humour, but you have just assumed, wrongly in my opinion that they (WestBros) hated GP3. "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:21 +0100, "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is fromJon > >Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont want totake

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> >it back? > > > > Were they laughing? > > >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:47:14 +0100, "Mike Cain"

<[email hidden]> > >wrote: > >> > >> >I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt seethe > >> >WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 and GPL,and > >I > >> >do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt done anything,so

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> >> >they had to prove themselves yet. > >> > > >> > >> They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > >> > >> "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > >> But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > >> limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > >> drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > >> smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > >> The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > >> 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > >> you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > >> thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > >> never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > >> corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > >> > >> > >> >So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? > >> > > >> > >> Nope. >

rrevved wrote:

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> "You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > > Sounds to me like they think GP3 is a joke. I find -them- really > humorous since they have -never- produced a sim. >

I don't know.... I just don't see it. I think you're being overly sensitive on this one, Ed. If you separate the sentences that draws the laughter from the final sentence (which is the one I believe that really rankles you), it really appears that rather than laughing at GP3, they're laughing at *him* for his inability to get to the first corner. I've re-read these comments numerous times & I just don't get another feel out of it. Then again, opinions are worth what you pay for them. <g> -- Chuck Kandler Windows is just a virus with a GUI

The original point to this discussion was, you said the WestBros slagged off GP3. So to me it appears you have over reacted. You have based this statement on the fact that the interviewer states that they laughed, after a former F2 champion says in good humour he couldnt keep the car straight. That does not sound like slagging off to me, especially as they praised other aspects of the game. "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:23:55 +0100, "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >You just can be wrong can you. Have you ever considerd that it may justbe a > >funny situation that Mr Crooke was explaining, and they were justenjoying > >themselves, or do you really believe they were all having a good oldlaugh > >about GP3, I suspect if it was a slag of GP3 chat that there would havebeen

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> >a lot more to it. The rest of the interview is full of laughs and good > >humour, but you have just assumed, wrongly in my opinion that they > >(WestBros) hated GP3. > > > > "You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've

driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], andthat's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to thefirst > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of thefact."

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> > Sounds to me like they think GP3 is a joke. I find -them- really > humorous since they have -never- produced a sim. > > I will be the -first- to congratulate them if they pull off what > they are working on, but maybe between now and then they > should go code or something. > > >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:21 +0100, "Mike Cain"

<[email hidden]>

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> >wrote: > >> > >> >Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is from > >Jon > >> >Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont want to > >take > >> >it back? > >> > > >> > >> Were they laughing? > >> > >> >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> >news:[email hidden]... > >> >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:47:14 +0100, "Mike Cain" > ><[email hidden]> > >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt

see > >the > >> >> >WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 andGPL, > >and > >> >I > >> >> >do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt doneanything,

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> >so > >> >> >they had to prove themselves yet. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > >> >> > >> >> "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very

easy. > >> >> But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > >> >> limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > >> >> drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > >> >> smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > >> >> The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > >> >> 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttleand > >> >> you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I'vedriven > >> >> thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], andthat's > >> >> never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to thefirst > >> >> corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of thefact."

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> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> Nope. > >> > > >

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:20:13 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >we > >have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) thathave > >done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. > > Have they ever written a racing sim? Sorry I was referring to GP3...he didn't write a racing sim in that he modified one...and yes I feel many of those people (if they have taken CSC courses) could easily do what he did, I've seen someone at my college make a game in a few months for a project that was looks like more was put into it than Crammond's mod. Jon

"Rod Prince" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.13ec19e5527cd3a1989716@news-server...

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> In article <HE9g5.548$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > but the bottom line is GP3 is not worth 4 years of effort, we > > have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) > > that have done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. > > That's a curious statement. Without Crammond, there would have been no > GP2!!

Umm when I say some people edited GP2 better than Crammond did (which he did to get GP3) how's it curious? He made GP2, which was awesome for it's time, and then the editors have done work basically for free ('cept for Belini) and their stuff is of higher quality than the Crammond team's work. Curious? No. A strong statement? Yes. Jon

To defend rrevved there was this quote too: F1F: Well how about I present it to you this way. I have Formula Ford experience, and the way I felt about GP3 was that the handling characteristics are still not like what I am used to with an open wheeled car. JC: No. They're not accurate at all. [Chris and Tony shaking their heads] Although I only see good in this..maybe I'm interpretting it wrong (they could be disagreeing with JC), but if they are saying GP3 is not right then I'm glad because it's not; if they can say that hopefully WSC will be more on GPL's level instead of being like some of the EA games where they claim greatness and fall short. Jon

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> I don't know.... I just don't see it. I think you're being overly > sensitive on this one, Ed. If you separate the sentences that draws the > laughter from the final sentence (which is the one I believe that really > rankles you), it really appears that rather than laughing at GP3, > they're laughing at *him* for his inability to get to the first corner. > I've re-read these comments numerous times & I just don't get another > feel out of it. Then again, opinions are worth what you pay for them. > <g> > > -- > Chuck Kandler > > Windows is just a virus with a GUI

Ummm, the west bros said they had only tried it with aids on. Without the aids they don't knwo what the simulation would do because they haven't tried it yet. They shake their heads at JC comments taking what he says as truthful. Well, without setting up my controller I would have agreed, afterwards I know he is wrong! [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On 28 Jul 2000 06:26:05 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Does it matter. Hey if I got into an F2 he'd kick my arse. So what, thisis > >PC Sim territory (and no matter how much GPL fanatics like to think > >otherwise, they are worlds apart! and always will be). That being said,I > >can only state what is possible versus what he claims is not possible. > >Controlled wheel spin is possible in GP3, maybe not with a hyperstim! > > > >I remember when he came into this group advertising about hyperstim andGP3 > >at melbourne GP, he got flamed off the board. Now he has a valuedopinion!

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> > That is not the point I'm making. What I'm pointing out is the > comments by him and the West brothers that GP3 is not even close to > how a F1 car handles. As the originator of this thread said, it spins > out too easily for one thing. From their comments I would say F1 2000 > is probably closer to the real thing. > -- > Nos >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > From their comments I would say F1 2000 > is probably closer to the real thing. Being an owner of both sims, I'd agree. F1-2000 in my uninformed opinion gives me more of an impression I'm racing an F1 car. However, it's not going to see much processor time on my machine compared to GP3. It's as good as shelved. Cheers, Rod.

In article <HE9g5.548$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > but the bottom line is GP3 is not worth 4 years of effort, we > have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) > that have done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. That's a curious statement. Without Crammond, there would have been no GP2!! Cheers, Rod.

That statement is JC's not theirs. They specifically state that they have NOT tried GP3 without the aids and do not know how it would handle with out them. I am in total agreement with the fact that JC is full of it, because controlled wheelspin is easy in GP3.

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> They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > > "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very easy. > But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of the > limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properly yet. > The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch the throttle and > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've driven > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and that's > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the first > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the fact." > >

I think they were laughing at the fact JC was getting bent out of shape more than anything rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:21 +0100, "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > >Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is fromJon > >Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont want totake > >it back? > > > > Were they laughing? >

They said they hadn't yet tried it without the aids, so if someone was describing it to be like that, I think I would shake my head also. But they said they hadn't tried it with no aids yet. Jon Van Ginneken <[email hidden]> wrote in article <ciqg5.618$[email hidden]>...

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> To defend rrevved there was this quote too: > > F1F: Well how about I present it to you this way. I have Formula Ford > experience, and the way I felt about GP3 was that the handling > characteristics are still not like what I am used to with an open wheeled > car. > > JC: No. They're not accurate at all. [Chris and Tony shaking their heads] > > Although I only see good in this..maybe I'm interpretting it wrong (they > could be disagreeing with JC), but if they are saying GP3 is not right

then > I'm glad because it's not; if they can say that hopefully WSC will bemore > on GPL's level instead of being like some of the EA games where theyclaim > greatness and fall short. > > Jon >

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I read that as well. It sounds like they are all having a good old joke > at GP3's expense. It is non-professional, particularly when it comes > from people who have produced NO racing sims. Oh come on. First off they didn't do anything in joking there, they stated their feelings...no laughs ater that statement or anything. Do you want them to feed us the same line of BS we are gonna read in PC magazines about 1998 GP2 modification? "Oh I think GP3 is great because it's got the name Crammond on the box cuz he's got a large ego that needs padding...the physics? Oh, like I said I saw Crammond's name on the box so it's awesome." Have you noticed he's the ONLY developer in this community who could give a rat's --- about giving us a bone or interacting with the sim community...I wonder why? C'mon all we need is the truth when the sim developers want our money! Jon

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:54:29 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]>wrote: > > > > >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:20:13 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken"<[email hidden]>

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> >wrote: > >> > >> >we > >> >have editors out there on the net (who release stuff for free!!!) that > >have > >> >done a better job to GP2 than what Crammond did. > >> > >> Have they ever written a racing sim? > > > >Sorry I was referring to GP3...he didn't write a racing sim in that he > >modified one... > > BZZZT .. Mr. Crammond has written several racing sims. > WTF are you talking about?

Read it again for the first time bud....and slooooooooooooowly. I missed a comma though, so maybe this will help out: Sorry I was referring to GP3...he didn't write a racing sim in that, he modified one... better? > >and yes I feel many of those people (if they have taken CSC > >courses) could easily do what he did, I've seen someone at my collegemake a > >game in a few months for a project that was looks like more was put intoit > >than Crammond's mod. > > > > How about Mr. Crammond's original games, GP1 and GP2? > Anybody over at your university created any sims which were > better than those? This is not about his past this is about his present. We all have respect for him, he was a PIONEER in the sim-racing category...just not anymore, maybe he can have a comeback with his next version but it sounds more like they'll just be rehash w/ new tracks and cars (boy I wonder if I could get those on the net?). And to your question, no but I never said they did a sim, where I goto school the CSC majors really aren't sim racers (unless u consider MidMad or NFS sims). Jon

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:28:16 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I hope the West Bros. aren't trying to create >"The Last Racing Sim You Will Ever Desire" .. :) If they come through with their plans and Empire doesn't screw them over, it just mught be that. -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:52:15 +0100, "Jasper Conwright" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >At least they are trying to produce something that may be good. But it seems >that on this group you cant even try and do something creative without being >attacked. Here, here...at least they are trying to raise the bar. Don't shit on these guys please. They need our support. -- Nos

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:20:36 +0200, Ronald Stoehr <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Hey, you can't do that. That's his job, dammit! ;) I know. I just wanted to make sure he didn't get the satisfaction of doing it first. :-) -- Nos

On 29 Jul 2000 02:30:04 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Ummm, the west bros said they had only tried it with aids on. Without the >aids they don't knwo what the simulation would do because they haven't >tried it yet. They shake their heads at JC comments taking what he says as >truthful. Well, without setting up my controller I would have agreed, >afterwards I know he is wrong! Well, it must be wheel specific then because I ahve tried every setting possible and my brakes are waaaay too sensitive in GP3 still. There is always a small amount of throttle when I'm not touching the gas pedal too. I have recalibrated a zillion times and it is still the same. I have never come across such a crap calibration routine since, well, um, GP2. :-) -- Nos

Yeah, but the best fps you can get out of a P2 800 is low 30s (with the patch I helped develop) so your a real expert when it comes to hardware setup aren't you. [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On 29 Jul 2000 02:30:04 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Ummm, the west bros said they had only tried it with aids on. Withoutthe > >aids they don't knwo what the simulation would do because they haven't > >tried it yet. They shake their heads at JC comments taking what he saysas

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> >truthful. Well, without setting up my controller I would have agreed, > >afterwards I know he is wrong! > > Well, it must be wheel specific then because I ahve tried every > setting possible and my brakes are waaaay too sensitive in GP3 still. > There is always a small amount of throttle when I'm not touching the > gas pedal too. I have recalibrated a zillion times and it is still the > same. I have never come across such a crap calibration routine since, > well, um, GP2. :-) > -- > Nos >

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:28:16 -0500, rrevved If they come through with their plans and Empire doesn't***them over, it just mught be that. -- Nos

spoke: Considering I set it to run at that frame rate that is what one would expect to get, no?***head. -- Nos

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:27:56 -0500, rrevved Geez..self procreation of imbeciles. Eeek! -- Nos

On 29 Jul 2000 11:39:38 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Yeah, but the best fps you can get out of a P2 800 is low 30s (with the >patch I helped develop) so your a real expert when it comes to hardware >setup aren't you. Considering I set it to run at that frame rate that is what one would expect to get, no? Dickhead. -- Nos

On 29 Jul 2000 11:39:38 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Yeah, but the best fps you can get out of a P2 800 is low 30s (with the >patch I helped develop) so your a real expert when it comes to hardware >setup aren't you. P.S. Considering other people with the same wheel as me have reported the exact same problems I would think it safe to assume it is a problem with the game and not user error. That makes you a dickhead and a twat. -- Nos

rrevved wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 15:18:07 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: > > >That makes you a dickhead and a twat. > > MMM.. think of the possibilities.. He could literally go f**k himself. <g> -- Chuck Kandler Windows is just a virus with a GUI

Rocky! Rocky! Rocky! Rocky! Rocky! Rocky! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:11:27 -0500 rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: % On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:16:48 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]> wrote: % >To defend rrevved there was this quote too: % > % >F1F: Well how about I present it to you this way. I have Formula Ford % >experience, and the way I felt about GP3 was that the handling % >characteristics are still not like what I am used to with an open wheeled % >car. % > % >JC: No. They're not accurate at all. [Chris and Tony shaking their heads] % I read that as well. It sounds like they are all having a good old joke % at GP3's expense. It is non-professional, particularly when it comes % from people who have produced NO racing sims. F****** H. C***** give it a rest. Someone looked at you and you are now certain they hate your guts..... Quit reading what you WANT to read into it and go take a breather..... You weren't there, you don't know what was going on, who was looking at who, what their facial expressions were, etc..... A tad too touchy and defensive..... When this happens I sometimes wonder just why one must be so defensive.... -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:27:56 -0500, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >MMM.. think of the possibilities.. > Geez..self procreation of imbeciles. Eeek! -- Nos

No response. I am surprised :O) "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jQmg5.2620$[email hidden]... > The original point to this discussion was, you said the WestBros slaggedoff > GP3. So to me it appears you have over reacted. You have based this > statement on the fact that the interviewer states that they laughed, aftera

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> former F2 champion says in good humour he couldnt keep the car straight. > That does not sound like slagging off to me, especially as they praised > other aspects of the game. > > "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:23:55 +0100, "Mike Cain" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > >You just can be wrong can you. Have you ever considerd that it may just > be a > > >funny situation that Mr Crooke was explaining, and they were just > enjoying > > >themselves, or do you really believe they were all having a good old > laugh > > >about GP3, I suspect if it was a slag of GP3 chat that there would have > been > > >a lot more to it. The rest of the interview is full of laughs and good > > >humour, but you have just assumed, wrongly in my opinion that they > > >(WestBros) hated GP3. > > > > > > > "You just touch the throttle and > > you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've > driven > > thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and > that's > > never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the > first > > corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the > fact." > > > > Sounds to me like they think GP3 is a joke. I find -them- really > > humorous since they have -never- produced a sim. > > > > I will be the -first- to congratulate them if they pull off what > > they are working on, but maybe between now and then they > > should go code or something. > > > > >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:[email hidden]... > > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:08:21 +0100, "Mike Cain" > <[email hidden]> > > >wrote: > > >> > > >> >Perhaps you may like to read the interview again. That comment is

from > > >Jon > > >> >Crooke from Hyperstim and not from the WestBros. So still dont wantto

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> > >take > > >> >it back? > > >> > > > >> > > >> Were they laughing? > > >> > > >> >"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> >news:[email hidden]... > > >> >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:47:14 +0100, "Mike Cain" > > ><[email hidden]> > > >> >wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> >I have read the interview, and as far as I can remember I ddidnt > see > > >the > > >> >> >WestBros slag of another developer, in fact they praised GP3 and > GPL, > > >and > > >> >I > > >> >> >do believe at the end they did mention that they hadnt done > anything, > > >so > > >> >> >they had to prove themselves yet. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> They said this, while laughing, in the interview: > > >> >> > > >> >> "To drive a high powered, open-wheeled race car is actually very > easy. > > >> >> But to drive it at the limit is very hard. To drive it at � of

the > > >> >> limit, I'd have a ball because I would make the car very easy to > > >> >> drive. You can squeeze the throttle, steer the back out, it's as > > >> >> smooth as that. Now Grand Prix 3, hasn't modeled that properlyyet. > > >> >> The latest beta which is a week old, or maybe two weeks old; the > > >> >> 'break away' point is just too sudden. You just touch thethrottle

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> and > > >> >> you go around. I couldn't even take-off down the straight. I've > driven > > >> >> thirty years in formula cars [1986 Australian F2 Champion], and > that's > > >> >> never happened to me. I couldn't even get that thing down to the > first > > >> >> corner! [everyone laughing] It's a complete fabrication of the > fact." > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >So perhaps you may wish to take that comment back? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> Nope. > > >> > > > > > > >

well quoting a previous post from you "It depends on your cpu. With that patch that removes the frame rate cap I get low 30's on a P3 800. I tested it using Fraps (www.fraps.com) so if you don't have a P3 800 or there abouts you won't see much improvement over 25fps unless you turn off some of the textures. What cpu do you have?" its not hard to see that you think a PII800 is what you need to get anything more than 25.6 Look the tone of all your posts and all your 'considered' arguments speaks for itself. Your one of those typical, "I have no fucking clue, buit I'll enforce my ignorance on the rest of you" type attitudes. Whatever, you can't setup your hardware. Good. Your a genius. You also forgot to mention how you always race ONE-HANDED. Btw, your argument style is very convincing [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> On 29 Jul 2000 11:39:38 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Yeah, but the best fps you can get out of a P2 800 is low 30s (with the > >patch I helped develop) so your a real expert when it comes to hardware > >setup aren't you. > > Considering I set it to run at that frame rate that is what one would > expect to get, no? Dickhead. > -- > Nos >

On 30 Jul 2000 03:25:37 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>well quoting a previous post from you > >"It depends on your cpu. With that patch that removes the frame rate >cap I get low 30's on a P3 800. I tested it using Fraps >(www.fraps.com) so if you don't have a P3 800 or there abouts you >won't see much improvement over 25fps unless you turn off some of the >textures. What cpu do you have?" > >its not hard to see that you think a PII800 is what you need to get >anything more than 25.6

No, I simply forgot that that utility puts a frame rate cap in the game also. But, I see the frame rate go as low as 18fps in the first turn anyway, so yes, a P3 800+ would be desirable if you want consistent high frame rates and dont't want to see sub 10fps in the first turn. >Look the tone of all your posts and all your 'considered' arguments speaks >for itself. Your one of those typical, "I have no fucking clue, buit I'll >enforce my ignorance on the rest of you" type attitudes. Whatever, you >can't setup your hardware. Good. Your a genius. You also forgot to mention >how you always race ONE-HANDED. Btw, your argument style is very convincing > You want to do some benchmarking to see just what I do know asshole? Put your money where your mouth is fuckwit. -- Nos

On 30 Jul 2000 03:25:37 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Look the tone of all your posts and all your 'considered' arguments speaks >for itself. Your one of those typical, "I have no fucking clue, buit I'll >enforce my ignorance on the rest of you" type attitudes. Whatever, you >can't setup your hardware. Good. Your a genius. You also forgot to mention >how you always race ONE-HANDED. Btw, your argument style is very convincing P.S. Sounds to me like little Barry Uber Geek has his knickers in a twist because I criticized his favourite sim. Boohoo... -- Nos

Ohhhh, did you get a little bitty upset. Poor boy. You forgot did you, oh well, these things happen, especially if your a bit fucking stupid in the first place. [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> > No, I simply forgot that that utility puts a frame rate cap in the > game also. But, I see the frame rate go as low as 18fps in the first > turn anyway, so yes, a P3 800+ would be desirable if you want > consistent high frame rates and dont't want to see sub 10fps in the > first turn. > > >Look the tone of all your posts and all your 'considered' arguments

speaks > >for itself. Your one of those typical, "I have no fucking clue, buitI'll > >enforce my ignorance on the rest of you" type attitudes. Whatever, you > >can't setup your hardware. Good. Your a genius. You also forgot tomention > >how you always race ONE-HANDED. Btw, your argument style is veryconvincing

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> > > > You want to do some benchmarking to see just what I do know asshole? > Put your money where your mouth is fuckwit. > -- > Nos >

spoke: Weird. Get help, quick. -- Nos

On 30 Jul 2000 09:27:51 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Ohhhh, did you get a little bitty upset. Poor boy. You forgot did you, oh >well, these things happen, especially if your a bit fucking stupid in the >first place. You know what's stupid little Barry Uber Geek. Me and you wasting time talking to each other. Enjoy your pathetic life as little Barry Uber Geek, another twat creating buggy software for the masses. Have a nice day. -- Nos

Your right, its plainly obvious your biggest contribution to society will be your death! [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On 30 Jul 2000 09:27:51 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Ohhhh, did you get a little bitty upset. Poor boy. You forgot did you,oh > >well, these things happen, especially if your a bit fucking stupid inthe

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> >first place. > > You know what's stupid little Barry Uber Geek. Me and you wasting time > talking to each other. Enjoy your pathetic life as little Barry Uber > Geek, another twat creating buggy software for the masses. Have a nice > day. > -- > Nos >

On 30 Jul 2000 15:14:40 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Your right, its plainly obvious your biggest contribution to society will >be your death! Weird. Get help, quick. -- Nos

OK, uncalled for. I apologise. I also apologise for letting this thread degenerate to such slanging. [email hidden] wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On 30 Jul 2000 15:14:40 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > >Your right, its plainly obvious your biggest contribution to societywill > >be your death! > > Weird. Get help, quick. > -- > Nos >

On 31 Jul 2000 00:56:45 GMT, "Barry Leek" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >OK, uncalled for. I apologise. I also apologise for letting this thread >degenerate to such slanging. That's OK, I have thick skin to match my thick head. :-) -- Nos

spoke: That's OK, I have thick skin to match my thick head. :-) -- Nos