Re: 1st PC - what would you get?

If you're looking into a system primarily for gaming, do what I'll likely do for my next PC- check with Alienware or Falcon Northwest. They will put together pretty much anything you want, have good warranties, good support, and do all the hard work for you<g>. http://www.alienware.com http://www.falcon-nw.com/ -- Scott Moore The Sports Gaming Network http://www.sports-gaming.com tim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and a console. > I have always wondered what it would be like to have all the great choices > that are discussed here. > > I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I should look > for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy the current crop > of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older ones I missed out on. > Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, Dell, etc.) > > Thanks

On Sun 23 Jul 2000 09:19:19am, tim wrote: >I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and a >console. I have always wondered what it would be like to have all >the great choices that are discussed here. Great! I'm not one of the "PCs are the only thing that counts" brigade, but when it comes to racing sims, they beat the rest hands down. >I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I >should look for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy >the current crop of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older >ones I missed out on. Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, >Dell, etc.) I don't know what the situation is overseas, but here in the UK if you have the confidence to buy from a small company via mail-order, it's a lot cheaper and you usually get better service than on the High Street - just ask people in the UK their opinion of the Dixon's chain, and put some earplugs in first! A lot of the "big brands" over here have very poor reputations for customer service. As for what spec to get - the easy answer is "the best you can afford". Anything now on the market will handle older games like GP2 or Colin McRae Rally without problems. GPL runs fine at 800x600 on my Celeron 400 with 64 megs of RAM and a Voodoo 3 graphics card. GP3 we don't know about yet. F1-2000 needs a couple of Crays... CPU - Fastest you can get (Pentium III is best, Celeron is next). Intels have the best compatability, but the new Athlons from AMD seem to be OK as well. RAM - At least 128 megs for preference. Memory is expensive in the UK, though, so a lot of us here (like me) only have 64 megs. Video: If you have an AGP graphics card slot (most, but not all, new PCs do), then it's between a Voodoo 5 and a GeForce. GPL used to require a 3dfx (or Rendition) card, but the Direct3D patch now available fixes that one. If you only have a PCI slot (eg on the machines, like mine, with a nasty onboard graphics system), then a Voodoo 3 will do the job. Most models of the V5 will apparently also be available in PCI, but I haven't seen one yet. Hard disk: Big. I have 8 gigs, and it's getting full. GPL replays take up a lot of space, you know :-) I'm no expert, and I'm sure a lot of people will be able to advise you better, but I hope that helped a bit. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.01) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and a console. I have always wondered what it would be like to have all the great choices that are discussed here. I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I should look for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy the current crop of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older ones I missed out on. Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, Dell, etc.) Thanks

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:19:19 GMT, [email hidden] (tim) thus spoke:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and a console. >I have always wondered what it would be like to have all the great choices >that are discussed here. > >I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I should look >for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy the current crop >of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older ones I missed out on. >Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, Dell, etc.) > >Thanks

They are pretty good, but they are sometimes proprietary which means upgrading can be a hassle. I would go with Dell over Gateway, which I did when I got my first PC. But, you will probably get a better machine, and for less, if you look for a local shop that will build to your specs. There are many choices in the PC market, but if you want the most compatible and a very fast system without overclocking then get the below minimums. P3 800+ (get fastest cpu you can afford) Voodoo5 5500 vid card (I had a Geforce2 and much prefer the Voodoo5, especially if you are into sims) 128mb ram minimum UDMA66 hard drive or maybe UDMA100 SB Live! or Aureal sound card Full tower case (better for upgrading later and will fit the Voodoo5 easier) 250-300w power supply (may as well make it 300w now) Go do some research on motherboard chipsets before you buy too. I personally still think the BX chipset is the way to go right now, but there are alternatives like VIA Appolo and i815. -- Nos

Great! I'm not one of the "PCs are the only thing that counts" brigade, but when it comes to racing sims, they beat the rest hands down. I don't know what the situation is overseas, but here in the UK if you have the confidence to buy from a small company via mail-order, it's a lot cheaper and you usually get better service than on the High Street - just ask people in the UK their opinion of the Dixon's chain, and put some earplugs in first! A lot of the "big brands" over here have very poor reputations for customer service. As for what spec to get - the easy answer is "the best you can afford". Anything now on the market will handle older games like GP2 or Colin McRae Rally without problems. GPL runs fine at 800x600 on my Celeron 400 with 64 megs of RAM and a Voodoo 3 graphics card. GP3 we don't know about yet. F1-2000 needs a couple of Crays... CPU - Fastest you can get (Pentium III is best, Celeron is next). Intels have the best compatability, but the new Athlons from AMD seem to be OK as well. RAM - At least 128 megs for preference. Memory is expensive in the UK, though, so a lot of us here (like me) only have 64 megs. Video: If you have an AGP graphics card slot (most, but not all, new PCs do), then it's between a Voodoo 5 and a GeForce. GPL used to require a 3dfx (or Rendition) card, but the Direct3D patch now available fixes that one. If you only have a PCI slot (eg on the machines, like mine, with a *** onboard graphics system), then a Voodoo 3 will do the job. Most models of the V5 will apparently also be available in PCI, but I haven't seen one yet. Hard disk: Big. I have 8 gigs, and it's getting full. GPL replays take up a lot of space, you know :-) I'm no expert, and I'm sure a lot of people will be able to advise you better, but I hope that helped a bit. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -1.01) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:47:53 +0200, "Han Monsees" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > >Don't agree. Buy an AMD: More CPU for your money. Maybe a AMD 900 MHz isas > >fast as a P3 850 MHZ (although I'm not convinced of that), the AMD CPUwill > >be much cheeper. > Just a couple notes: The AMD CPU might be cheaper, but from what I've seen the motherboards are costlier- negating the savings on the CPU. There have also been several reports of the Nvidia cards not liking the AMDs much, so maybe the two together isn't a good answer..... This is, of course, all anecdotal- I have a Celeron and a Voodoo 3<g>. All in all, I'd still say let Falcon or Alienware build you one, and don't worry your head :-) -- Scott Moore The Sports Gaming Network http://www.sports-gaming.com

If you are new to PC's then there is only one winner. Dell. Dell are leaps and bounds ahead of all other PC manufacturers. Especially if you are new to PC's you will want good support, a stable, reliable and easy to use system. Dell provides all of these. True, you can get dedicated gaming machines for less that are faster, but they compromise on support and tend to be a more flakey. I know I own one =) I work for a software company that provides mission critical software for telephone companies. We use Dells exclusively. Pretty much says it all really. Once you get more up to speed with PC's and want to start tinkering, overclocking etc you might want to look at something else. FYI, I own a PIII 550 with 256MB RAM and a GeForce card. My system runs all current games really well. If I was to buy a new machine today, I'd get a PIII800+ with a GeForce2 card. RAM is cheap and you can upgrade later. That should keep you going for a couple of years at least =) Cheers, ...Colin "tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and aconsole. > I have always wondered what it would be like to have all the great choices > that are discussed here. > > I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I shouldlook > for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy the current crop > of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older ones I missed out on. > Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, Dell, etc.) > > Thanks

You might want to avoid getting something with a name like Dell or Compaq (etc). Your local small PC retailer will sell you something just as fast for probably 15-20% cheaper. Also if you go for a pre-built package, make sure the components are decent. Obviously the most important things are the CPU and the video and sound card. If you are seriously into games then I would recommend a minimum of P3/Athlon-600, V3/TNT2, 128 MB RAM, 20 Gig Hard-drive, 17 inch monitor, SBLivePlayer 1024 sound card.

Here's what I would build (or have built if you don't think you can DIY, but it's really not all that hard ...): 1.) P3700E (E=100MHz Front Side Bus, EB =133MHz FSB and is to be avoided) 2.) Asus P3B-F motherboard w/a "Slotket" converter for the CPU (this mobo is based on Intel BX chipset) or Asus CUCLX motherboard (this mobo is based on the new Intel i815 chipset) 3.) 128MB of SDRAM, PC133 w/CAS 2 latency (Crucial/Micron or Mushkin brands are best here ...) 4.) 20-30GB hard drive, pref. 7200RPM. I like IBM or Western Digital "Expert" series (which are basically IBM drives) 5.) SoundBlaster Live! soundcard 6.) If you're just running driving sims, then for right now I would go with the trusty Voodoo3 3000 AGP. They're rock solid, highly overclockable for more speed, very compatible with all games, and dirt cheap nowdays. The latest video cards such as the V5 or the GeForce series are all insanely expensive and do not provide enough of a benefit to justify the cost. Upgrade this later when the next generation of cards come out. 7.) CD-ROM. Depends on whether you prefer IDE or SCSI I/O. If you wanna stay simple, go IDE and pick up one of the Asus drives, say a 40X or so. Very good units, reasonable prices, and they provide both digital & analog outputs. If you like SCSI, then the only way to go is with Plextor. And if you are planning on doing any CD burning, esp. "on the fly" then SCSI is definitely the way to go, with both a Plextor source drive and a Plextor recorder. 8.) Case - I prefer full towers, both for the room and the cooling capacity. The SuperMicro SC750A is quite nice, and comes with a 300W power supply made by Sparkle Power Inc. (SPI), which is one of the best. Addtronics is the OEM maker of this case, and also sells it under its own name, with only a few minor cosmetic differences, and is a coupla bucks cheaper. Get the optional caster wheels. 9.) 19in. monitor. With prices so low today, you can buy a 19in. for what a 17in. cost a couple years ago, and the increase in screen real estate is quite a bit (somewhere around 30-40%). My first choice is the Sony G400, but if you wanna save $75-100, try the Mitsubishi DiamondPlus91 or the Viewsonic PF795 (not the 790). The rest of the stuff, ie. keyboard, mouse, speakers, modem, Win98 (Win2000 is not a great platform for gaming) etc., is pretty much up to you, ie. whatever you prefer. Logitech makes great mice (I like the Mouseman Wheel) and their keyboards are very decent too (their Internet Keyboard is nice, has 'Net hot keys, plus volume controls, etc.) With this system as spec'd above, you ought to be able to run at 7x133.33=933MHz. The advantage to the newer Asus mobo with the i815 is that it has a 1/2 AGP bus multiplier, and therefore the video card will not be overclocked when you overclock the system. With the older P3B, the AGP mult. is 2/3, and at 133MHz system bus speed you are running the video card slightly out of spec. While this is a problem with some cards, the 3dfx cards handle it with no problem, so don't sweat it. And don't worry about overclocking in general. With proper cooling it is relatively easy, and harmless. Sure, you will get increased electromigration in the CPU, but the average life of a CPU is several times the average length of time a person keeps a system. Besides, you get a "933MHz" CPU for about 1/3-1/4 of the cost. As spec'd above, you're looking at about $1950 with the Sony, or ~ $1875 with the Viewsonic or Mitsubishi, including shipping costs for all the parts. No sales tax either. <g> And you will have a killer system running at ~ 1GHz that ought to last you for a while, but you will wanna upgrade the video card sometime as I noted. Probably be at least 6-9 months before the next gen of vid cards hits. Note: These costs are based on an IDE CD-ROM and no CD burner either. If you go the SCSI route, add in $50-$75 for a decent SCSI controller, and $175 or so for a "burner". Oh yeah, forgot to add in the cost of a wheel & pedal setup. <G> Depending on your fancy, anywhere from $75 to $500. tim wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> I have read this newsgroup for years while owning an older Mac and a console. > I have always wondered what it would be like to have all the great choices > that are discussed here. > > I am currently considering buying a PC and was wondering what I should look > for in the way of speed, video cards, ram, etc, to enjoy the current crop > of sims discussed on this ng, as well as the older ones I missed out on. > Are those package deals any good? (Gateway, Dell, etc.) > > Thanks

About best system to buy noe. Don't agree. Buy an AMD: More CPU for your money. Maybe a AMD 900 MHz is as fast as a P3 850 MHZ (although I'm not convinced of that), the AMD CPU will be much cheeper. I have very good experiences with Geforece 2. Moreover, Voodoo is a dead end street imo. IMO soundcard is not that important unless you're the kind of guy that hears the noise on an audio-CD Also better for ventilation grtng, HGRM

Also a 4-speaker setup if you've got somewhere to put all the wires.

About best system to buy noe. > > P3 800+ (get fastest cpu you can afford) Don't agree. Buy an AMD: More CPU for your money. Maybe a AMD 900 MHz is as fast as a P3 850 MHZ (although I'm not convinced of that), the AMD CPU will be much cheeper. > Voodoo5 5500 vid card (I had a Geforce2 and much prefer the Voodoo5, > especially if you are into sims) I have very good experiences with Geforece 2. Moreover, Voodoo is a dead end street imo. > 128mb ram minimum > UDMA66 hard drive or maybe UDMA100 > SB Live! or Aureal sound card IMO soundcard is not that important unless you're the kind of guy that hears the noise on an audio-CD > Full tower case (better for upgrading later and will fit the Voodoo5 > easier) Also better for ventilation

Quoted text (10 lines)

> 250-300w power supply (may as well make it 300w now) > > Go do some research on motherboard chipsets before you buy too. I > personally still think the BX chipset is the way to go right now, but > there are alternatives like VIA Appolo and i815. > > > -- > Nos

grtng, HGRM

In article <8lgg60$6dl$[email hidden]>, "Colin" <[email hidden]> writes: >I work for a software company that provides mission critical software for >telephone companies. We use Dells exclusively. Pretty much says it all >really. All it says is that your company chose Dells. :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Gollum <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>9.) 19in. monitor. With prices so low today, you can buy a 19in. for what a >17in. cost a couple years ago, and the increase in screen real estate is >quite a >bit (somewhere around 30-40%). My first choice is the Sony G400, but if you >wanna save $75-100, try the Mitsubishi DiamondPlus91 or the Viewsonic PF795 >(not >the 790).

What's the diff between the PF795 and PF790. Also, someone else mentioned a KDS monitor was just as good for a little more than half the price. Why not the KDS? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +69.95 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:47:53 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Don't agree. Buy an AMD: More CPU for your money. Maybe a AMD 900 MHz is as >fast as a P3 850 MHZ (although I'm not convinced of that), the AMD CPU will >be much cheeper. >I have very good experiences with Geforece 2. Moreover, Voodoo is a dead end >street imo. >IMO soundcard is not that important unless you're the kind of guy that hears >the noise on an audio-CD

Shut the hell up. If you read my post properly you would have seen I also said the most *compatible*. I can't stand people who contradict good advice. Sheesh. Canadian Prices AMD K7 Athlon 850MHz 100MHz/200MHz Bus 512k Retail (Slot A) $557 Intel Pentium 3 800MHz (E) 100MHz Bus 256k OEM (Slot 1) $529 -- Nos

On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:46:58 -0500, "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>Just a couple notes: The AMD CPU might be cheaper, but from what I've seen >the motherboards are costlier- negating the savings on the CPU. There have >also been several reports of the Nvidia cards not liking the AMDs much, so >maybe the two together isn't a good answer..... >This is, of course, all anecdotal- I have a Celeron and a Voodoo 3<g>. All >in all, I'd still say let Falcon or Alienware build you one, and don't worry >your head :-)

Not to mention the fact that most games have MMX support, but not always 3DNOw. Oh yea, Athlons generate more heat and need a tighter tolerance when it comes to voltage supply. I think either cpu is good, but as I said, I gave the advice that provided the best compatibility and stability. I've also owned a Geforce2 so i didn't just base my opinion on a bias either. -- Nos

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > In article <8lgg60$6dl$[email hidden]>, "Colin" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I work for a software company that provides mission critical software for > >telephone companies. We use Dells exclusively. Pretty much says it all > >really. > > All it says is that your company chose Dells. :)

Good one, I have a couple of customers that uses our line of custom built computers only, and while I'd like to believe they're the best bar none, I'm not convinced :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com