Indy Race at Atlanta and Net Race Live

A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at Atlanta via ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The stands gave the appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near a major city and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to capacity at Indianapolis. Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is a simulation that enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cant be all that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup. What is it like?

Thanks Jay. I didnt realise that they would restrict the crowd to just one part of the track. Jay J wrote:

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> Can't speak for Net-Race, but I've heard it's similar to the ABC Sports IRL > game/sim that came out about 3 years ago, which by today's standards is a > real stinkeroo, but at the time was one of the first racing games to support > hardware acceleration. > > As for the attendance.... > > The first year at Atlanta they announced a crowd of 42K, last year it was > down to something like 30K, I would guess this years event was much closer > to the first year, perhaps even better! You must remember Atlanta Motor > Speedway seats something like 150K ! And... They only opened one of the > grandstands (the one on the front stretch across from the pits) and don't > allow fans to sit in the first 15-20 rows due to safety constraints. > > From the TV shots WHEN they did show the crowd, it looked quite full all the > way up under the condo's. > > Before you start throwing stones at tonight's attendance, I think outside of > the Indy 500 and perhaps the Texas Motor Speedway events, you won't find an > IndyCar (IRL or CART) race at an oval that get's more than 50K in attendance > anywhere in the country! > > If you don't believe me.... Just wait until CART hit's Michigan (MIS) in a > week or two and judge for yourself. > > JJ > > "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at Atlanta via > > ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The stands gave the > > appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near a major city > > and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to > > capacity at Indianapolis. > > Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is a simulation that > > enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cant be all > > that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup. What is > > it like? > >

Thanks for the plug, Jay! <G> I posted this a while back -- they're now beyond release 1.0, and they've added in tire scrub effects, so you can "hear" your grip going away a bit better now. There seem to have been some other subtle changes to the physics, too, since I first posted this -- all for the better, thankfully. FYI, this is definitely NOT a re-hash of the old ABC Indy Racing title. I have that on my hard drive still (hey, I need an IRL fix before each race, okay?), and I've done back-to-back comparisons, and although the tracks and graphics look similar, they are definitely two different beasts (which is neither good nor bad, actually). Anyway, here was my basic take on Net Race Live: ---------------- I was in on the closed beta testing, and the 1.0 release that's now available seems to be somewhat improved. Here's my quick take: I have to classify Net Race Live as a simulation -- not a "sim" per se, but a SIMULATION (and there is a difference). GPL, N3, DTR, NFSPU, and Viper Racing are all good examples of a sim, in that they simulate a full physics model, plus good audio and visual cues. Net Race Live simulates some physics, but there is no allowance for you to make ANY adjustments, either from a "garage"-type tuning standpoint, or from an in-cockpit "on-the-fly"-type weight jacking method. The visuals are good (kind of reminds me of ICR2 Rendition version) and the sound is also okay, too. Add all this up, and Net Race Live doesn't quite qualify as a "sim" in the way that GPL does, but it does do a GREAT job of simulating the Indy Racing Northern Lights EXPERIENCE -- the lap times, the vehicles' rate of acceleration, the handling, and the time to pass another car all add up to a very convincing experience. As a sim racer, the driving model itself may feel a bit arcade-like, but the fact that I know I'm hunting down Robbie Buhl in the last 12 laps of the Walt Disney World race, for example, makes it very compelling and immersive for me, and it starts to feel pretty darn realistic after a couple of laps. PLUS, because of the fact that I know how the various drivers responded in the actual race, I find it very immersive as I try to hunt down each of the lap leaders to put myself in a position for a win. It's much cooler than you think when you first realize that you just pulled off a pass against Buddy Lazier's ACTUAL "car," rather than some semi-convincing AI representation of his possible responses. My first thought was, "This is going to seem canned and completely uncompelling," but after the first lap, that thought never entered my head again. This is the part I really like about Net Race Live, in fact -- at the moment, all you can do for free is either qualify or you can do the last 12 laps of a race (WDW only, so far -- unless they added some stuff today). This works like the "Beat the Heat" feature in the upcoming "NASCAR Heat" title. The downside is that there doesn't seem to be any AI involved -- you basically get inserted into the race, then you have to work around the other cars, and sometimes you have to avoid them. Keep in mind that with Net Race Live, you're not actually racing against AI cars at all -- you're actually racing against the recorded telemetry from the IRL's Walt Disney World race. The speed, positioning, and actions of Cheever, Goodyear, Salazar, Ray, Calkins, and Buhl in the "game" are all actually reproductions of their telemetry recorded from the actual race, which is why they don't react to you, nor can you affect them. It's as if they plopped you down in a car and stuck you into the race -- you cannot change the finishing order, unless you happen to come in ahead of any or all of the "AI" cars -- you can wreck, but you can't cause others to wreck. It can be frustrating if you get slow in front of someone, for example, because they will just ram you, with no ramifications for them (that is, you can't cause them to spin, wreck, hesitate, wobble, etc., but you CAN do all these things, and contact with the "AI" car IS possbile). A "no collisions" mode or "ghost" mode would have been nice, perhaps, to help eliminate this problem. I was only able to get my controller (a Thrustmaster Super Sport, at the moment) to work in single-axis mode, and the control setup is not all that intuitive -- I had to fiddle with the sensitivity a LOT to find a setting that felt good. Still, it works very nicely once you get it set up. On the whole "arcade" vs. "sim" issue, I found that I actually preferred the "arcade" setting over the "sim" setting, but this may be because of the AI issue. Still, even in "arcade" mode, the acceleration, grip, and handling envelope all feel fairly convincing. One thing I do miss from other "sims" is the tire sounds -- ICR2 and ABC Indy Racing both gave good tire noises that helped you gauge where you were in the grip envelope, and the Net Race Live model doesn't do a very good job in that area [NOTE: This has been rectified with the latest release]. Still, the handling feels right, and the difficulty seems to be both accessible and pleasing at the same time, if that makes sense. I'd definitely recommend giving this a try -- it's much more immersive than you would think, and if it were a NASCAR thing instead of an IRL thing, I think this board would be clogged and GPL would be all but forgotten . . . maybe. <G> So give it a shot and let's hear what the rest of you think. -- JB In article <NYac5.10760$[email hidden]>, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Yup... No sense opening up the other grandstands if there not goingto use > them... > > BTW, if J. Bodin reads this he might be able to shed some light on the > NetRace thing, as I belive he's tried it, and usually does a prettyfair job

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> writing unbiased game/sim reviews! > > JJ > > "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks Jay. I didnt realise that they would restrict the crowd to

just one > part > > of the track. > > > > Jay J wrote: > > > > > Can't speak for Net-Race, but I've heard it's similar to the ABCSports > IRL > > > game/sim that came out about 3 years ago, which by today'sstandards is > a > > > real stinkeroo, but at the time was one of the first racing gamesto > support > > > hardware acceleration. > > > > > > As for the attendance.... > > > > > > The first year at Atlanta they announced a crowd of 42K, lastyear it > was > > > down to something like 30K, I would guess this years event wasmuch > closer > > > to the first year, perhaps even better! You must remember AtlantaMotor > > > Speedway seats something like 150K ! And... They only opened oneof the > > > grandstands (the one on the front stretch across from the pits)and > don't > > > allow fans to sit in the first 15-20 rows due to safetyconstraints. > > > > > > From the TV shots WHEN they did show the crowd, it looked quitefull all > the > > > way up under the condo's. > > > > > > Before you start throwing stones at tonight's attendance, I think > outside of > > > the Indy 500 and perhaps the Texas Motor Speedway events, youwon't find > an > > > IndyCar (IRL or CART) race at an oval that get's more than 50K in > attendance > > > anywhere in the country! > > > > > > If you don't believe me.... Just wait until CART hit's Michigan(MIS) in

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> a > > > week or two and judge for yourself. > > > > > > JJ > > > > > > "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at

Atlanta via > > > > ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The standsgave t > he > > > > appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near amajor city > > > > and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the standsfilled to > > > > capacity at Indianapolis. > > > > Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is asimulation that > > > > enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cantbe all > > > > that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup.What is > > > > it like? > > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Can't speak for Net-Race, but I've heard it's similar to the ABC Sports IRL game/sim that came out about 3 years ago, which by today's standards is a real stinkeroo, but at the time was one of the first racing games to support hardware acceleration. As for the attendance.... The first year at Atlanta they announced a crowd of 42K, last year it was down to something like 30K, I would guess this years event was much closer to the first year, perhaps even better! You must remember Atlanta Motor Speedway seats something like 150K ! And... They only opened one of the grandstands (the one on the front stretch across from the pits) and don't allow fans to sit in the first 15-20 rows due to safety constraints. From the TV shots WHEN they did show the crowd, it looked quite full all the way up under the condo's. Before you start throwing stones at tonight's attendance, I think outside of the Indy 500 and perhaps the Texas Motor Speedway events, you won't find an IndyCar (IRL or CART) race at an oval that get's more than 50K in attendance anywhere in the country! If you don't believe me.... Just wait until CART hit's Michigan (MIS) in a week or two and judge for yourself. JJ "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at Atlanta via > ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The stands gave the > appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near a major city > and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to > capacity at Indianapolis. > Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is a simulation that > enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cant be all > that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup. What is > it like? >

Yup... No sense opening up the other grandstands if there not going to use them... BTW, if J. Bodin reads this he might be able to shed some light on the NetRace thing, as I belive he's tried it, and usually does a pretty fair job writing unbiased game/sim reviews! JJ "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks Jay. I didnt realise that they would restrict the crowd to just onepart > of the track. > > Jay J wrote: > > > Can't speak for Net-Race, but I've heard it's similar to the ABC SportsIRL > > game/sim that came out about 3 years ago, which by today's standards isa > > real stinkeroo, but at the time was one of the first racing games tosupport > > hardware acceleration. > > > > As for the attendance.... > > > > The first year at Atlanta they announced a crowd of 42K, last year itwas > > down to something like 30K, I would guess this years event was muchcloser > > to the first year, perhaps even better! You must remember Atlanta Motor > > Speedway seats something like 150K ! And... They only opened one of the > > grandstands (the one on the front stretch across from the pits) anddon't > > allow fans to sit in the first 15-20 rows due to safety constraints. > > > > From the TV shots WHEN they did show the crowd, it looked quite full allthe > > way up under the condo's. > > > > Before you start throwing stones at tonight's attendance, I thinkoutside of > > the Indy 500 and perhaps the Texas Motor Speedway events, you won't findan > > IndyCar (IRL or CART) race at an oval that get's more than 50K inattendance > > anywhere in the country! > > > > If you don't believe me.... Just wait until CART hit's Michigan (MIS) ina

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> > week or two and judge for yourself. > > > > JJ > > > > "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at Atlanta via > > > ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The stands gave t

he

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> > > appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near a major city > > > and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to > > > capacity at Indianapolis. > > > Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is a simulation that > > > enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cant be all > > > that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup. What is > > > it like? > > > >

They don't want crowds in the lower parts because open wheel cars can easily touch tires and liftoff into the crowd. "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks Jay. I didnt realise that they would restrict the crowd to just onepart > of the track. > > Jay J wrote: > > > Can't speak for Net-Race, but I've heard it's similar to the ABC SportsIRL > > game/sim that came out about 3 years ago, which by today's standards isa > > real stinkeroo, but at the time was one of the first racing games tosupport > > hardware acceleration. > > > > As for the attendance.... > > > > The first year at Atlanta they announced a crowd of 42K, last year itwas > > down to something like 30K, I would guess this years event was muchcloser > > to the first year, perhaps even better! You must remember Atlanta Motor > > Speedway seats something like 150K ! And... They only opened one of the > > grandstands (the one on the front stretch across from the pits) anddon't > > allow fans to sit in the first 15-20 rows due to safety constraints. > > > > From the TV shots WHEN they did show the crowd, it looked quite full allthe > > way up under the condo's. > > > > Before you start throwing stones at tonight's attendance, I thinkoutside of > > the Indy 500 and perhaps the Texas Motor Speedway events, you won't findan > > IndyCar (IRL or CART) race at an oval that get's more than 50K inattendance > > anywhere in the country! > > > > If you don't believe me.... Just wait until CART hit's Michigan (MIS) ina

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> > week or two and judge for yourself. > > > > JJ > > > > "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > A couple of questions. I just watched an enjoyable race at Atlanta via > > > ESPN. But what about all those invisible spectators. The stands gave

the

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> > > appearance of being extremely empty. Here is a track near a major city > > > and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to > > > capacity at Indianapolis. > > > Secondly on the website for Indy Racing there is a simulation that > > > enables you to race against the drivers. I guess the sim cant be all > > > that good or people would be raving over it on this newsgroup. What is > > > it like? > > > >

On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:36:36 +1200, PC <[email hidden]> wrote: *snip* > Here is a track near a major city >and no one bothers to turn to see drivers who had the stands filled to >capacity at Indianapolis.*snip* The IRL drivers certainly didn't fill the stands. The Cart drivers certainly didn't fill the stands. What filled the stands was the fact that it's the Indy 500, the pinnacle of American Auto Racing. Around memorial day people aren't exaclty saying "Lets all goto the IRL race!" .. if you get my point.