Re: NASCAR.com and Kenny Irwin

"Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A9u95.4195$[email hidden]... > I agree with you. A short 6 word headline is very poor indeed. Theyshould > have yanked the whole site immediately. I came home from work and checked NASCAR.com for the pole results and saw the Irwin headline down below. My first impression was how bizarre it was that Irwin's death wasn't the lead story, but yanking the whole site because someone was killed? I don't think so. What's the point of that? As for all the chatter about changing the track or that the track is dangerous...out of the 40-50 cars that went around that track today during that practice, only one crashed and killed someone. If the track was deadly or inherently dangerous, I think more than 2% of the drivers would have crashed and been killed. Racing is dangerous and people get killed. Race drivers know it is dangerous and decide to take that risk, anyway. It is unfortunate when a driver is killed, but it happens and always will. The only way to absolutely prevent being killed driving a race car is not to drive a race car. All the mandates and rules and changes in the world are not going to stop race drivers from getting killed now and then. It sucks, but it's a risk associated with the practice of racing cars. Now someone can tell me what a heartless jerk I am because I had the gall to inject some reality into the maudlin kneejerk blather that will no doubt follow this unfortunate event. ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

I don't understand why they do not have a tribute to Kenny Irwin on NASCAR.com home page. I think Rusty's pole position should be a footnote to Kenny's death, instead of the other way around. It's just my opinion. Chris

I too thought it was in poor taste. Apparently they thought winning the pole position was more important than a driver losing his life. Just my opinion

"m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rbG95.4164$[email hidden]... > I'm inclined to agree. tragic as it is, motorsport will always have it's > casualties. I am led to understand that both recent accidents were as a > result of throttles sticking wide open. This lends me to believe thatmaybe > the cars should be under closer scrutiny right now. Actually, a recent announcement by NASCAR after examining A. Petty's car stated they saw "no evidence of mechanical failure." I would take everything the spinmeisters at NASCAR have to say with a grain of salt, however. People in the pits, including crew chiefs and mechanics all said it looked like a stuck throttle ( in AP's case) and I would be more inclined to believe them then some blowhard suit in the NASCAR front office. After my post last night I scoured the net to see if there was any consistent complaint about that area of the track from drivers or NASCAR crews. I found one uncredited comment that drivers complained of a "nasty bump" in that area of turn 3. I am sure the track will be examined closely, as well it should, and if there is a problem that could be corrected by (for example) re-paving the turn, I am sure the Bahre family would be happy to do it rather than lose a Cup date, especially with many new tracks coming online soon and free dates dwindling. ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

"Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > the cars were possibly not > >set up correctly for the track and may have been overdriven? > > You don't just overdrive your car straight into a wall. And a track doesn't cause you to fail to slow down. I wasn't suggesting that was the case, I was just floating the idea that there might be another cause for the accidents other than the track. > >Fans perceptions of the realtive safety of a track are > >irrelevant > > They could be considering NASCAR officals make the rule changes and theyaren't > driving the cars. NASCAR officials are in contact with the teams and drivers and can examine the track. A bunch of NASCAR fans watching races on TV have no substantive basis for making pronouncements on what is wrong or how to fix it. > >If the flatness is a problem, I guess that means they > >will have to stop racing at Sears Point and the Glen and Pocono and Indy, > >too, right? > > > > It's the angle of impact that matters. This is true, but the lack of banking has an impact on incidental decelleration as a car approaches the wall and would also (obviously) allow a car to enter a turn faster and possibly forgive more errors in handling. The example of Bristol has been given. A lot of people drive into the wall there, but the car just doesn't have as much oomph by the time it gets there. > Look when Dave Marcis went head on into > the wall in T1 at Pocono a year ago. He came out of it ok. Ward Burton,Steve > Park, Ken Schrader, and more have flipped at Sears Point and came out just > fine. That Busch crash at Watkins Glen definatly proved that softer,breakaway > walls work. I am not so sure that breakaway walls would work on the turns on ovals. Cars brush the walls in and out of the corners a lot and something softer than concrete might catch the cars and cause them to hang up or spin back out onto the track, endangering countless others, as well. (Think he magnetic walls of NasRev or the grass of SCGT) I forget the track exactly, but Michael Waltrip hit a wall in a 'soft spot' (I think it was a gate) and ended up hitting the edge of adjacent wall pretty much head on. It was a miracle that the decelleration didn't squirt his brains out through his eye sockets. Were he to have hit a solid wall and bumped along it, that danger from sudden decelleration would have not been a factor. I am sure this whole thing will be examined closely and anything genuinely beneficial will hopefully get done. I hope people don't just scream and yell that "something" has to be done and so somebody does "something" to shut them up which might possibly cause even more problems. Look at safety-conscious F1 for a second and think about A. Senna. All the gravel traps and run offs and tire walls in the world didn't do squat for him. ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

>The first thing I pictured with styrofoam retaining wall covers was >that 90% of the cautions we see today would become red flags while the Only cover the turns, not the straightaway walls. Say a few hundered feet into the turn and before the next straight. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

"Brett C. Cammack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Some NASCAR fans are sufficiently versed in the sport to do so. No > argument that most can't, but don't use too broad a brush here... agreed > The first thing I pictured with styrofoam retaining wall covers was > that 90% of the cautions we see today would become red flags while the > track personnel reassembled the wall and swept up the mess. I'd rather have red flags than dead drivers, but this is very true. > People always will scream and yell that "something" must be done. Hence my admonishment at the very start. Folks need to face up to the fact that you can't always do "something" to prevent an accident. ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

"Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >The first thing I pictured with styrofoam retaining wall covers was > >that 90% of the cautions we see today would become red flags while the > > Only cover the turns, not the straightaway walls. Say a few hundered feetinto > the turn and before the next straight. I still have to wonder about this. How many times have you seen a driver get up into the wall in a corner and keep it under some control, staying against the outside wall as traffic passes? If you had a soft wall, it might cause the car to bounce back onto the track, or even cause a bunch of the wall material to be spewed out onto the track, making other drivers swerve and brake to avoid it. This reminds me of the airbag issue in America. Sure, they save lives, but they also take them. They are a wonderful panacea until your 2 year old gets decaptitated by one. ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

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>Racing is dangerous and people get killed. Race drivers know it is >dangerous and decide to take that risk, anyway. It is unfortunate when a >driver is killed, but it happens and always will. The only way to >absolutely prevent being killed driving a race car is not to drive a race >car. All the mandates and rules and changes in the world are not going to >stop race drivers from getting killed now and then. It sucks, but it's a >risk associated with the practice of racing cars. > >Now someone can tell me what a heartless jerk I am because I had the gall to >inject some reality into the maudlin kneejerk blather that will no doubt >follow this unfortunate event.

Well I dont really agree with that NASCAR is dangerous. but 2 people dont need to die at the same track in 2 months thats ridicoulous. Something needs to be done. Lobonte broke his leg at daytona too.

"Tony StewartNo20" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Well I dont really agree with that NASCAR is dangerous. Isn't that what I said? That NASCAR is dangerous? Or are you saying it isn't dangerous? If it isn't dangerous, then why have two people died in the last couple months? > but 2 people dont need > to die at the same track in 2 months thats ridicoulous. I think it's a co-incidence. Has it occured to you that both of these incidents happened during practice sessions where the cars were possibly not set up correctly for the track and may have been overdriven? If there is an inherent problem with the track, I think you would have heard the drivers complaining about it en masse. Remember a couple years ago when all the drivers screamed about the entrance to the front straight at Texas being too narrow? They all said it was unnecessarily dangerous and they pretty much got together and said they wouldn't be back unless it was fixed. I haven't heard throngs of drivers complaining about the danger entering turn 3 at NHIS. Fans perceptions of the realtive safety of a track are irrelevant. If the drivers are not complaining about the safety, there's no safety problem. > Something needs to be > done. And 99% of the drivers in Winston Cup who go around the track are doing what needs to be done: Not crashing. This is exactly what I mean! Drivers will probably be extra cautious and maybe come into turn #3 a couple mph lower now so they don't crash. There are corners or sections of most tracks that are dangerous if you don't drive them correctly. Do you think all tracks should be homogenized to the point of making crashing impossible? NHIS is a very flat race track. If the flatness is a problem, I guess that means they will have to stop racing at Sears Point and the Glen and Pocono and Indy, too, right? > Lobonte broke his leg at daytona too. What does Terry Labonte breaking his leg in Florida have to do with people crashing in New Hampshire? I suppose you are going to suggest that something needs to be done about Daytona to prevent people spinning halfway around after contact and hitting the wall with the drivers' side first? ~daxe -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

> the cars were possibly not >set up correctly for the track and may have been overdriven? You don't just overdrive your car straight into a wall. >Fans perceptions of the realtive safety of a track are >irrelevant They could be considering NASCAR officals make the rule changes and they aren't driving the cars. >If the flatness is a problem, I guess that means they >will have to stop racing at Sears Point and the Glen and Pocono and Indy, >too, right? > It's the angle of impact that matters. Look when Dave Marcis went head on into the wall in T1 at Pocono a year ago. He came out of it ok. Ward Burton, Steve Park, Ken Schrader, and more have flipped at Sears Point and came out just fine. That Busch crash at Watkins Glen definatly proved that softer, breakaway walls work. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

In article <[email hidden]>, "daxe" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> Something needs to be >> done. > >And 99% of the drivers in Winston Cup who go around the track are doing what >needs to be done: Not crashing. This is exactly what I mean! Drivers will >probably be extra cautious and maybe come into turn #3 a couple mph lower >now so they don't crash. There are corners or sections of most tracks that >are dangerous if you don't drive them correctly. Do you think all tracks >should be homogenized to the point of making crashing impossible? NHIS is a >very flat race track. If the flatness is a problem, I guess that means they >will have to stop racing at Sears Point and the Glen and Pocono and Indy, >too, right? >

Besides, the info from both crashes was that the throttle stuck, right? What the HELL does that have to do with the track??? Eldred - who thinks both crashes were just unfortunate 'freak' accidents... -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

well it is the top story under the NASCAR news section, perhaps they didn't think about the fact that the Winton cup news comes up first? Yeah I don't get that excited about the bud pole anyways, a drivers death seems much more important to me. In slate-ish way, I'll give the cynical spin. The Bud pole has a title sponsor, so maybe be the folks at NASCAR get kick backs for every Bud gets mentioned first. In that case, perhaps the funeral should be sponsored by Jiffy Lube, that way it can get some coverage by the racing media... That's pretty damn disgusting. Phil Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A9u95.4195$[email hidden]... > I agree with you. A short 6 word headline is very poor indeed. Theyshould

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> have yanked the whole site immediately. > > Cheers > > Phil > > Chris Maness <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:r5u95.41908$[email hidden]... > > I don't understand why they do not have a tribute to Kenny Irwin on > > NASCAR.com home page. I think Rusty's pole position should be a

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> to > > Kenny's death, instead of the other way around. It's just my opinion. > > > > Chris > > > > > >

I agree with you. A short 6 word headline is very poor indeed. They should have yanked the whole site immediately. Cheers Phil Chris Maness <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r5u95.41908$[email hidden]... > I don't understand why they do not have a tribute to Kenny Irwin on > NASCAR.com home page. I think Rusty's pole position should be a footnoteto > Kenny's death, instead of the other way around. It's just my opinion. > > Chris > >

daxe wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >As for all the chatter about changing the track or that the track is >dangerous...out of the 40-50 cars that went around that track today during >that practice, only one crashed and killed someone. If the track wasdeadly >or inherently dangerous, I think more than 2% of the drivers would have >crashed and been killed. "Rusty Wallace said there is a bump at the end of the long backstretch, where cars are going about 150 mph, and that most drivers are prepared for it. He also said dirt and rubber buildup on the asphalt surface also has made the 1.058-mile oval among the slickest on the circuit. "(CNN) Two fatal crashes at the same spot within such a short period of time. I don't think it takes rocket science to figure out there could be a problem there. Can you name any other time in NASCAR history where something like this has happened before? It would take 2% of the drivers to die there before you would consider this dangerous? How many more deaths there do we need to see before you would change your mind about that? Maybe if it was a spot where they would just spin out into the grass or something it wouldn't be so critical. But the results of losing it there are apparently resulting in very violent crashes. I would think they could take enough out of the budget to try to remove the bump and scrub the track. Jim D. Jim D.

> > Now someone can tell me what a heartless jerk I am because I had the gallto > inject some reality into the maudlin kneejerk blather that will no doubt > follow this unfortunate event. I'm inclined to agree. tragic as it is, motorsport will always have it's casualties. I am led to understand that both recent accidents were as a result of throttles sticking wide open. This lends me to believe that maybe the cars should be under closer scrutiny right now. MS

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> > ~daxe > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 15:53:44 -0400, "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote: >NASCAR officials are in contact with the teams and drivers and can examine >the track. A bunch of NASCAR fans watching races on TV have no substantive >basis for making pronouncements on what is wrong or how to fix it. Some NASCAR fans are sufficiently versed in the sport to do so. No argument that most can't, but don't use too broad a brush here... >I am not so sure that breakaway walls would work on the turns on ovals. >Cars brush the walls in and out of the corners a lot and something softer >than concrete might catch the cars and cause them to hang up or spin back >out onto the track, endangering countless others, as well. (Think he >magnetic walls of NasRev or the grass of SCGT) The first thing I pictured with styrofoam retaining wall covers was that 90% of the cautions we see today would become red flags while the track personnel reassembled the wall and swept up the mess. >I forget the track exactly, but Michael Waltrip hit a wall in a 'soft spot' >(I think it was a gate) and ended up hitting the edge of adjacent wall >pretty much head on. It was a miracle that the decelleration didn't squirt >his brains out through his eye sockets. Were he to have hit a solid wall >and bumped along it, that danger from sudden decelleration would have not >been a factor. That was a truely amazing sight. I suspect the energy dissapated by the car shredding as it did (thankfully down the right side of it) is what saved his life there. There wasn't a piece of that car that was the same shape or position it was in when it came off the truck that morning. Incredible... >I am sure this whole thing will be examined closely and anything genuinely >beneficial will hopefully get done. I hope people don't just scream and >yell that "something" has to be done and so somebody does "something" to >shut them up which might possibly cause even more problems. Look at >safety-conscious F1 for a second and think about A. Senna. All the gravel >traps and run offs and tire walls in the world didn't do squat for him. People always will scream and yell that "something" must be done. All we can do is have better answers and explanations before they do. As everybody keeps saying, it's a dangerous sport and you can get killed doing it. That ain't ever gonna change unless we can repeal the laws of physics... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Lee Mills wrote: > >> So, maybe a tribute to him, but you can understand the reason they did >> not make it the headline......didn't want to make NASCAR look bad. >> > > >Good logic, just one problem. They didn't do it that way when Adam >Petty died. That *was* the headline out there. :-/

Maybe because Adam Petty was more famous? ANY driver lost is one too many, but the 'lesser known' don't even get enough respect... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +70.45 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I think all of you have missed the point...... NASCAR.com is a promotional site...a good site which tries to boost NASCAR's image... Putting a big headling stating "ANOTHER DRIVER KILLED" is not in anyone's best intersest. The main stream media took care of that. If you had gone to CNN.com right after the accident you would have found that the headline..... Along with... FOXNEWS.com ABCNEWS.com CBS.sportsline.com cnnsi.com So, maybe a tribute to him, but you can understand the reason they did not make it the headline......didn't want to make NASCAR look bad. Just my thoughts, but I think they are right on target. Lee

Lee Mills wrote: > So, maybe a tribute to him, but you can understand the reason they did > not make it the headline......didn't want to make NASCAR look bad. > Good logic, just one problem. They didn't do it that way when Adam Petty died. That *was* the headline out there. :-/ -- Chuck Kandler A man is no less a Slave just because he is allowed to choose a new Master every four years.

This is a very good point. However, maybe after the way they handled Adam's death, they decided if it ever happened again they would scale down? Who knows? It's over with now I guess and nothing any of us can do about it....although I wish there were. I pretty much hated Kenny Irwin....I used to work for ESPN and did some stuff with NASCAR....he was not personalble at all, he had a big mouth, etc......I hear from friends still at ESPN that he had started to change his ways. There is no way on this earth I would wish death on anyone. I wish now that he was back.....I will miss him. Lee On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:35:17 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Lee Mills wrote: > >> So, maybe a tribute to him, but you can understand the reason they did >> not make it the headline......didn't want to make NASCAR look bad. >> > > >Good logic, just one problem. They didn't do it that way when Adam >Petty died. That *was* the headline out there. :-/