Re: GPL D3D Patch - not as good as Glide

The DirectX patch is not designed for the Voodoo card. That's what Glide is for. On a GeForce card the difference is night and day. I run it at 1280x1024, full detail, all cars with deep dish 3d wheels and I get 29fps at the start at Monaco. With the OpenGL I got 15 fps. JP "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jg855.862$[email hidden]... > I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but > the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolutionI > get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours lookbetter. > D3D looks a little washed out to me. > Iain > >

It doesn't seem as smooth either...it says 36 fps but it doesn't feel like it. D3D just seems to be a bad API for racing games. Even in N3, at 30fps, D3D seems to stutter. "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to runGPL, but > the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280resolution I > get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours lookbetter. > D3D looks a little washed out to me. > Iain > >

I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolution I get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours look better. D3D looks a little washed out to me. Iain

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:50:20 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but >the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolution I >get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours look better. >D3D looks a little washed out to me. Yeah, though playing with the LOD bias really makes the textures somewhat sharper and better. Mirrors look perfect with D3D, but the performance hit is significant and occasionally there are some bad drops in framerate (perhaps texture trashing?). Anyway, great work for those who had to use the OpenGL rasterizer. Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

In D3D with my Voodoo3 3000, it seems more washed out and I also get a bad framerate stutter. On my Celeron 566 OC'd to 850, 256 MB ram, at 1280x1024, all graphics on except cars only in mirrors, detail bias set about 1/4 from the left, starting from back of field at the Ring, I get (before start, lowest after start, steady state): Glide 36/32/36 (no framerate stutter once racing) D3D 7/7/36 (really!, with noticeable stutter while racing) My V3 is not OC'd (166MHz) and vsync is turned off. Brian "Daniel Lichtenberger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Yeah, though playing with the LOD bias really makes the textures > somewhat sharper and better. Mirrors look perfect with D3D, but the > performance hit is significant and occasionally there are some bad > drops in framerate (perhaps texture trashing?). Anyway, great work for > those who had to use the OpenGL rasterizer.

<<On a GeForce card the difference is night and day. I run it at 1280x1024, full detail, all cars with deep dish 3d wheels and I get 29fps at the start at Monaco. With the OpenGL I got 15 fps. JP>> Same here. I get 31 fps on the line at monaco and as soon as the flag falls it pins at 36! Depth of color and texture is absolutely UNREAL! I have a dell 600 p-3, 256 ram, sb live with the geforce 256. Before I would get 16-19 at the start and 34 during a race. At monza 24 at the start and 34-36 on the race, both with mirror refresh rate down and some detail off. Now everything up and it absolutley screams! Great job Papy! I am so glad I bought the Geforce a few months back and put up with the little problems.

Point being? My pov here is that w/ the purchase of my next video card I can now be more choosy, it doesn't have to be a 3dfx product for us to get great performance in my favorite sim. Jon "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jg855.862$[email hidden]... > I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but > the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolutionI > get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours lookbetter. > D3D looks a little washed out to me. > Iain > >

[email hidden] says... > > Same with me with Voodoo3 2000 - glide still looks better and runs better - > I had hoped running in D3D would cure my lock-up problems, but it locked up > too - only difference being the sound locked up too - usually I just get the > video locking up. > Not my experience really, running a V3-2K @ 182. Replay seemed to have some issues when run at full screen, unless you were in the cockpit view. I didn't try to experiment with D3D filtering options, and straight out of the box the trees looked a bit pixelated, the edges weren't blended like they are when using a 3dfx rasterizer. Other than that, it looks pleasing (given that you're always going too fast to admire the scenery), the mirrors work perfectly and most importantly, the framerate is slightly better. Started a race @ Rouen, 15 opponents. In the back of the grid I was getting pretty steady 32 fps. That used to be around 26 when using Glide. Oh, I think I'm going for D3D (in GPL) from now on. Racing against my friend who's using a GeForce, I'm not particularly inclined to hand him the advantage when it comes to race starts and such. --- Antti Markus Peteri a n t t i @ p e t e r i . n e t

Same with me with Voodoo3 2000 - glide still looks better and runs better - I had hoped running in D3D would cure my lock-up problems, but it locked up too - only difference being the sound locked up too - usually I just get the video locking up. Daniel Lichtenberger <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:50:20 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL,but > >the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolutionI > >get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours lookbetter.

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> >D3D looks a little washed out to me. > > Yeah, though playing with the LOD bias really makes the textures > somewhat sharper and better. Mirrors look perfect with D3D, but the > performance hit is significant and occasionally there are some bad > drops in framerate (perhaps texture trashing?). Anyway, great work for > those who had to use the OpenGL rasterizer. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

I agree. I've never been convinced about the frame counter in GPL. It has always seemed optimistic to me, and doesn't feel consistent with what I know from other frame counters. Iain Tracey A Miller <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:39552238$0$33690$[email hidden]...

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> It doesn't seem as smooth either...it says 36 fps but it doesn't feel > like it. D3D just seems to be a bad API for racing games. Even in N3, > at 30fps, D3D seems to stutter. > > > "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run > GPL, but > > the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 > resolution I > > get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours look > better. > > D3D looks a little washed out to me. > > Iain > > > > > >

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:56:27 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Point being? My pov here is that w/ the purchase of my next video card I >can now be more choosy, it doesn't have to be a 3dfx product for us to get >great performance in my favorite sim. Right, with this D3D patch Geforce based cards became a very fine choice for racing sims, especially since most future racing sims (including GP3, I think) won't even have Glide support. Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:50:20 +0100 Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote: % I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but % the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolution I % get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours look better. % D3D looks a little washed out to me. You may find you need to set the gamma setting for your D3D display. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It seems the patch makes much more of a difference on higher end systems. On My old PC, a PII 266 w/TNT 16 meg AGP and Voodoo II 12 meg PCI, the patch actually delivers worse FPS, and the mirrors don't seem to work at all! Just grey and black, and that's with "cars on" It sounds like on a GeForce card, running on at least a PIII 500 the FPS and image quality is the equal of the Voodoo based cards. That said... Is a V5 5500 still a better choice than a GeForce 2 GTS 32 or 64 meg card? I am in the process of getting a new system, with at least a PIII 866 processor, and was planning on getting a V5 5500 for the glide support. Now I'm not so sure.... I still have some older games that will take advantage of GLIDE and perhaps run better with it than in D3D mode, so I'm still a bit undecided. JJ "Daniel Lichtenberger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:56:27 -0500, "Jon Van Ginneken" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Point being? My pov here is that w/ the purchase of my next video card I > >can now be more choosy, it doesn't have to be a 3dfx product for us toget

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> >great performance in my favorite sim. > > Right, with this D3D patch Geforce based cards became a very fine > choice for racing sims, especially since most future racing sims > (including GP3, I think) won't even have Glide support. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

Daniel it sounds like you've got a V5 5500 ? If so, what kind of FPS decrease does using FSAA have on GPL ??? I've heard that turning this feature on at resolutions greater than 800x600 kills the FPS.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:09:09 GMT, Daniel Lichtenberger <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Right, with this D3D patch Geforce based cards became a very fine >choice for racing sims, especially since most future racing sims >(including GP3, I think) won't even have Glide support. Anyone know if GP3 will have T&L support? I know N4 will. -- Nos

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:16:19 GMT, "Michael E. Carver" [email hidden] thus spoke: >You may find you need to set the gamma setting for your D3D display. And that's one of the great things about the Annihilator2. It comes with a Game Launcher that allows you to adjust gamma for each channel or overall, plus brightness and contrast. It then starts the game for you with those settings. If you buy Powerstrip (shareware) you can do the same thing. -- Nos

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:18:10 GMT, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It seems the patch makes much more of a difference on higher end systems. > >On My old PC, a PII 266 w/TNT 16 meg AGP and Voodoo II 12 meg PCI, the patch >actually delivers worse FPS, and the mirrors don't seem to work at all! Just >grey and black, and that's with "cars on" > >It sounds like on a GeForce card, running on at least a PIII 500 the FPS and >image quality is the equal of the Voodoo based cards. > >That said... Is a V5 5500 still a better choice than a GeForce 2 GTS 32 or >64 meg card?

I think for GPL and other racing sims the V5 is still the better choice - if you want to use FSAA. Without FSAA, a Geforce DDR or GF2 offers more features and better OpenGL compatibility. Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

Iain I agree with non FSAA with the V5 5500 : Glide is better than D3D but... just give it a try with 2X FSAA at high resolution with D3D... as for Glide with 2X FSAA the result is well documnented : pc will crash in single race or multi-player mode All of this been experienced at http://www.simracingmag.com Eric Iain Mackenzie wrote: > I'm really happy for all of you who previously used OpenGL to run GPL, but > the D3D patch is still not as good as Glide on my V5. At 1280 resolution I > get pretty much maxed out at 36fps using Glide and the colours look better. > D3D looks a little washed out to me. > Iain

On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:40:27 GMT, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Daniel it sounds like you've got a V5 5500 ? No, unfortunately not. ;-/ -Daniel -- ICQ UIN: 30333508 http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

yes the fps does go down at over 8x6 but , and this may seem like a cop-out, but, 8x6 with 4x fsaa "looks" better than 10x7 or even the 16x12 resolutions. dave henrie I'd also be thinking that a next gen cpu could fix alot of that slowdown too... dh "Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vRo55.418$[email hidden]... > Daniel it sounds like you've got a V5 5500 ? > > If so, what kind of FPS decrease does using FSAA have on GPL ??? I'veheard > that turning this feature on at resolutions greater than 800x600 kills the > FPS. > > > >

And how about using GeForce at 1600x1200 or more, the added resolution really makes wonders...even on 17" monitors.. Ma�rko Daniel Lichtenberger <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:18:10 GMT, "Jay J" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >It seems the patch makes much more of a difference on higher end systems. > > > >On My old PC, a PII 266 w/TNT 16 meg AGP and Voodoo II 12 meg PCI, thepatch > >actually delivers worse FPS, and the mirrors don't seem to work at all!Just > >grey and black, and that's with "cars on" > > > >It sounds like on a GeForce card, running on at least a PIII 500 the FPSand > >image quality is the equal of the Voodoo based cards. > > > >That said... Is a V5 5500 still a better choice than a GeForce 2 GTS 32or

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> >64 meg card? > > I think for GPL and other racing sims the V5 is still the better > choice - if you want to use FSAA. Without FSAA, a Geforce DDR or GF2 > offers more features and better OpenGL compatibility. > > Daniel > > -- > ICQ UIN: 30333508 > http://www.topofgames.de || http://danielshome.cjb.net

I dunno.... I have an Athlon 800 & GeForce DDR. After installing the patch, and setting up for 1280X1024, which is more than sufficient, I peg at 36 fps and it pretty much never moves. For the first time, GPL is actually useable and driveable for me. Good Job to the person that wrote this patch! -Larry ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Oops, my post is out of thread...I was just saying that it looked very good at 1600x1200 noticeably better than 1280x1024... M Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I dunno.... > > I have an Athlon 800 & GeForce DDR. After installing the patch, > and setting up for 1280X1024, which is more than sufficient, I > peg at 36 fps and it pretty much never moves. > > For the first time, GPL is actually useable and driveable for me. > > Good Job to the person that wrote this patch! > > -Larry > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. > Up to 100 minutes free! > http://www.keen.com >

On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:55:06 +0300, "Marko Aaltonen" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Oops, my post is out of thread...I was just saying that it looked very good >at 1600x1200 noticeably better than 1280x1024... >M >Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I dunno.... >> >> I have an Athlon 800 & GeForce DDR. After installing the patch, >> and setting up for 1280X1024, which is more than sufficient, I >> peg at 36 fps and it pretty much never moves. >> >> For the first time, GPL is actually useable and driveable for me.

it wont move past 36fps of course. because that is gpl's maximum frame rate. bare that in mind b4 trying to get it any faster ;) Rich