OT: My day at the 'Ring

My Day at the 'Ring Or - driving as religious experience... Since it was my first trip to Europe, and I was right in Brussels, Belgium, it was an absolute misson for me to get to the 'Ring. I traded in my Renault Laguna for an Audi A4 1.6 a day before to give me chance to get used to it. I must say it was a very nice-handling car. 1.6 liters wasn't a whole lot of engine, but it had really powerful 4-wheel discs, which was probably ideal for someone going for thier first on-track driving experience (dark blue, for anyone who was there). I really picked a good day to go - they were holding a vintage bike/car race on the GP circuit, so I had alot of fun walking around the pits ogling while I waited for the Nordschlief to open. First off - this was just incredible to me to actually be *driving* on the 'Ring. I may get flamed for this, but to me this is the greatest racetrack ever, where the real heroes of racing were made. What's Indianapolis? - four left turns and a yard of brick ;). Just amazing that you can still drive here. I was surprised at what good shape the track surface was in - the oncar videos I'd seen made it look like it was going to be a bit torn up (have they re-paved recently?) Forgive me for not knowing the corner names... Low points - -Being one of the stupid newbie tourists that got in line without a ticket and held up the serious folks early in line. -Only having money for 2 laps, and the track closing early by the time I'd got back from a money machine - I guess someone wrecked? I saw a race car on a trailer with front end damage. 'Oh Shit' moments - -Almost every time I practiced in GPL, the downhill into a right, that encourages you to use the elevation change to take advantage of the added grip, but is followed by a really tight left at the top of the hill. Anyway - I kept missing this turn in GPL, and sure enough it caught me out the first lap - both right wheels up on the curbing (OK- the entire right half of the car...). -Following a Lotus Elise into a turn and letting myself get sucked into way too much speed at the apex. I spent the entire exit plowing the speed off till the curbing on the left before I touched the gas again. -Letting a pair of bikes by into the second banked turn, and having to get back onto the banking <2ft behind the last bike because I felt like I had too much speed to make it through on the flat outside of the curve. -Wanting to give the folks at one of the spectating points a nice show, and banging the car against the rev-limiter on a downshift to second (I was already keeping the engine between 4500-6000rpms most of the time). Good moments - -Following up the bungled downshift with a nice exit from the complex - in 3rd ;)... -Giving the folks at the next complex a nice show, hopefully - I know I got the suspension completely unloaded at the crest of the hill, and just made the turn-in point. -Finding a rythm through the left-right-left turns, and really using all the turns: kissing the curbs at the apexes and running it right out to the curbs on the exits of the individual turns. -Taking the Karussel in 3rd gear, looking out the side window to look far enough through the turn. -Being a good citizen and signalling right, and letting the other drivers make clean passes. -Only getting caught up by obviously faster cars, and even having a 'Ring-taxi BMW M-wagon follow me for a few turns even though I'd signalled right initially. Don't know if he was content with the pace I was holding, or scared to enter a turn near me ;). All in all just an incredible experience! I'm going to do all I can to make sure I go back for the next system upgrade, and try to schedule around a long day with the 'Ring. I have worshipped at the altar of motorsport and I am forever changed :)... PS - Give both the museum at the GP course (too touristy for the money), and the Grun Holle restaurant (unless you just want a beer) a miss if you go...

[email hidden] (Kendt Eklund) wrote in <mAe35.1961$[email hidden]>: >My Day at the 'Ring >Or - driving as religious experience... >I have worshipped at the altar of motorsport and I am forever >changed :)... I am totally envious. But what we really want to know, is what were your lap times? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -1.90 Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

"Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8F57EB7DAdscurlock@news... > I am totally envious. But what we really want to know, is what were > your lap times? > I was there by myself, so I didn't try to get times. It's hard to get a real laptime anyway - especially to compare to GPL. You come out onto the main straight, cut off part of the track (the part that became the new GP circuit), and have to stop every lap to put in another toll ticket. You make a right before the end of the straight and go into Hatzenbach (I dug out my track map). It was a little disorienting to get to the Flugplatz well before I expected it. That first problem section was Kallenhard, I think. I'm trying to match up my memory, GPL, and a printed track map. Kendt

[email hidden] (Kendt Eklund) wrote in <SEl35.2201$[email hidden]>:

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>I was there by myself, so I didn't try to get times. It's hard to >get a real laptime anyway - especially to compare to GPL. You come >out onto the main straight, cut off part of the track (the part that >became the new GP circuit), and have to stop every lap to put in >another toll ticket. You make a right before the end of the >straight and go into Hatzenbach (I dug out my track map). It was a >little disorienting to get to the Flugplatz well before I expected >it. That first problem section was Kallenhard, I think. I'm trying >to match up my memory, GPL, and a printed track map. > >Kendt

A couple more questions from a curious disciple. If they wanted to allow it for some special reason, would it still be possible to lap the original configuration, or has it been permanently changed? Also, how much do you feel learning the Ring through gpl actually helped when doing it for real? Did you know where you were going on that first lap? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -1.90 Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote in <[email hidden]>:

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>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:25:21 GMT, [email hidden] (Don >Scurlock) wrote: > >>A couple more questions from a curious disciple. > >Hey Don, I went to the Ring too! >The gates look beautiful when closed :) > >Andre >

Thanks Andre. I was wondering about the gates, but I didn't want to bring the subject up, as I know how painful it is for you ;-) -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -1.90 Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

>Those gates really were worth the trip to the Ring, they are really great!Real sturdy metal gates, and even after an hour bashing on the lock, I still couldn't open it! Great locks or what huh? Thats German efficiency for you You should see the tall fence just before Hatzenbach, glorious! - so flat, tall, smooth and imposible to climb but of course if you walk round the edge of the track 'till you get to the steep slope down into Hatzenbach 1 you can hop over a 3ft high bit of wire and get onto the track! then you wouldn't have a vehicle though... >I've got some beautiful photos of those gates if anyone is interested... Perhaps you could post those photos on alt.binaries.simulators.autos, I'm sure we'd all like to see them :) -- Cheers, Robin Lord - Trance DJ & Sim Racer. http://www.oppositelock.co.uk N�rburgring and Grand Prix Legends

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:25:21 GMT, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote: >A couple more questions from a curious disciple. Hey Don, I went to the Ring too! The gates look beautiful when closed :) Andre

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:03:34 GMT, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote:

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>>>A couple more questions from a curious disciple. >> >>Hey Don, I went to the Ring too! >>The gates look beautiful when closed :) >> >>Andre > >Thanks Andre. I was wondering about the gates, but I didn't want to >bring the subject up, as I know how painful it is for you ;-)

No, it's not painfull at all! Those gates really were worth the trip to the Ring, they are really great! Real sturdy metal gates, and even after an hour bashing on the lock, I still couldn't open it! Great locks or what huh? I've got some beautiful photos of those gates if anyone is interested... Andre

In article <8F584BB2Fdscurlock@news>, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote: > A couple more questions from a curious disciple. If they wanted to > allow it for some special reason, would it still be possible to lap > the original configuration, or has it been permanently changed? I don't think so - the armco barrier looked pretty permanent ;)... > Also, > how much do you feel learning the Ring through gpl actually helped > when doing it for real? Did you know where you were going on that > first lap? I'd definitely say it helped - I was able to recognize certain combinations of curves. I was far from memorizing the track in GPL, though. One of the things I noticed, and had only read about in racing books, is the idea of "attention budget". In GPL, the only input you receive is through your eyes and hands, so you have attention available to spend on checking out the scenery. Once I was actually driving, I was spending alot of that attention budget on feeling what the car was doing through my body, so all I could really concentrate on visually was the track itself - and watching my mirrors ;)... It's a very, very focusing experience. Kendt Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: > No, it's not painfull at all! Those gates really were worth the trip > to the Ring, they are really great! Real sturdy metal gates, and even > after an hour bashing on the lock, I still couldn't open it! > Great locks or what huh? I've got some beautiful photos of those gates > if anyone is interested... LOL! Thanks Andre - I missed the gates, so now I *have* to go back :)! Looking at the schedule, there's a number of weekends in August/Sept with entire days open. We'll have to organize a R.A.S. track day! Kendt PS - I've spent lots of time in GPL with my car pointed right into one of the fences - do you feel this helps with being ready for the 'Ring Gates ;)? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

There's plenty of places you can walk on to the track. My favorite spot is after the bridge before Quiddelbacher Hohe. Or is there only one D in Quiddelbacher? Anyway, looking those bikers straight in the eye as they barrel down and over the bridge... made ME happy! Also, last time I was there the outside of the lefthander of Hocheichen was cordoned off by those plastic pylons, because of a previous accident. (I managed not to see the yellow flashing light and yellow flag that were posted off-track in three laps I drove. Keep your eyes on the track! I thought. I saw the pylons, though.) I tried to identify the car that crashed there from pieces of headlights that were scattered around the countryside, but failed. There were a few guys sitting there trackside (inside the armco), which I considered extremely wise because a) there were loud German signs everywhere saying it was, to put it mildly, not allowed and b) it was obvious they'd have been killed by the car that crashed there earlier if it happened again. None of this surprised me, however. A track official appeared and I thought he'd send those spectactors away. But no! All he did was pick up those pylons and left. Of course! Those pylons cost _money_! If spectators want to sit where they're likely to get themselves killed, that's their business. So much in the spirit of the 'Ring... I shouldn't have been surprised but I was. >Hey Don, I went to the Ring too! >The gates look beautiful when closed :) Yes, they sure do. I like how they open so I can go on the track. Of course, that's something you'll never see, Andre. Make sure you stay well away from the Ring next time I go! Ha ha. Just joking. I think. -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands.

> > A couple more questions from a curious disciple. If they wanted to > allow it for some special reason, would it still be possible to lap > the original configuration, or has it been permanently changed? The start finish loop is no longer there because they built the new circuit over the top of it ... the circuit is now <only> 13.1 miles. They also planed off one or two of the major jumps slightly, but it is still very close to what it was in 67 They do still race on it though .... the 24hr race of the nordschleife is this coming weekend ....... look out for a certain David Mercer driving a BMW M3 E36 ;) Marc

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:06:44 +0100, "Robin Lord" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Thats German efficiency for you Yes, the Germans are really the best in gate-making! Thousends of years of tradition, from generation to generation the knowledge passed through, resulting in the ultimate gate ever made: The Gate At The Entrance Of The Nordschleife > >You should see the tall fence just before Hatzenbach, glorious! - so flat, >tall, smooth and imposible to climb Oh yes, I forgot that beauty, the spikes on top were the icing on the cake! > >but of course if you walk round the edge of the track 'till you get to the >steep slope down into Hatzenbach 1 you can hop over a 3ft high bit of wire >and get onto the track! >then you wouldn't have a vehicle though... I realized that too after I climbed the wire... You could have told me that one a little bit earlier... Andre

Don Scurlock wrote in message <8F584BB2Fdscurlock@news>... >A couple more questions from a curious disciple. If they wanted to >allow it for some special reason, would it still be possible to lap >the original configuration, or has it been permanently changed? Also, >how much do you feel learning the Ring through gpl actually helped >when doing it for real? Did you know where you were going on that >first lap? Don, If you haven't already, you could check out http://fgplc.figc.net/Nordschleife/nordschleife.htm for my 'Ring report. Hena

[email hidden] (Hena H�kk�nen) wrote in <8inorg$mg3$[email hidden]>: >If you haven't already, you could check out >http://fgplc.figc.net/Nordschleife/nordschleife.htm >for my 'Ring report. > >Hena Wow, excellent report and comparison. Certainly answered my question. Thank you very much. I pulled out my Ring map and was riding it with you, with a pit in my stomach! That's a much better Ring map you used than the one I have. Is that downloadable from somewhere? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -1.90 Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

[email hidden] wrote in <8io8lu$hfr$[email hidden]>:

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>In article <8F584BB2Fdscurlock@news>, >> how much do you feel learning the Ring through gpl actually helped >> when doing it for real? Did you know where you were going on that >> first lap? >I'd definitely say it helped - I was able to recognize certain >combinations of curves. I was far from memorizing the track in GPL, >though. One of the things I noticed, and had only read about in racing >books, is the idea of "attention budget". In GPL, the only input you >receive is through your eyes and hands, so you have attention available >to spend on checking out the scenery. Once I was actually driving, I >was spending alot of that attention budget on feeling what the car was >doing through my body, so all I could really concentrate on visually was >the track itself - and watching my mirrors ;)... It's a very, very >focusing experience. > >Kendt

Thanks Kendt. Have you read Keith Codes "A Twist Of the Wrist" ? It has some very useful concepts on attention, and how to focus it. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -1.90 Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

Hey Don, The map Hena used, is from here I believe. http://www4.tripnet.se/~niclas/bmwsc/tracks/nurburgr.htm Check out the detailed sections... very helpful Roger Don Scurlock <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8F5978A60dscurlock@news...

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> [email hidden] (Hena H�kk�nen) wrote in > <8inorg$mg3$[email hidden]>: > > >If you haven't already, you could check out > >http://fgplc.figc.net/Nordschleife/nordschleife.htm > >for my 'Ring report. > > > >Hena > > Wow, excellent report and comparison. Certainly answered my question. > Thank you very much. I pulled out my Ring map and was riding it with > you, with a pit in my stomach! > That's a much better Ring map you used than the one I have. Is that > downloadable from somewhere? > -- > Don Scurlock > Vancouver,B.C. > GPLRank -1.90 > > Come see how you rate, at the GPLRank site > http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:26:40 +0200, "Laurens de Jong" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>Hey Don, I went to the Ring too! >>The gates look beautiful when closed :) > >Yes, they sure do. I like how they open so I can go on the track. Of >course, that's something you'll never see, Andre. Make sure you stay well >away from the Ring next time I go! Ha ha. Just joking. I think. They... they open? Andre > >-Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Laurens de Jong <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Of course you can't lap the original configuration. The Sudkehre > was destroyed to build the new Grand Prix course. But the armco > barrier that makes you turn right after Hohenrain is not > permament. A few times a year, the Grand Prix Strecke is linked > to the Nordschleife. I don't see the point of that, but it's > popular with a lot of riders. I believe this is a fixture on > Easter Monday, and the only time I've seen it, personally. > > -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. >

I probably didn't get a good enough look - with only 2 laps I was trying to concentrate of going fast right away :). Out of curiousity, where do they put the pits for the real races they still hold there? Kendt Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8F5978D2Bdscurlock@news>, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote: > Thanks Kendt. Have you read Keith Codes "A Twist Of the Wrist" ? Ithas some > very useful concepts on attention, and how to focus it. Yep - I knew I read that somewhere ;)... My brother road-races, so every time I visit him I usually read through whatever interesting motorcycle books he has. Kendt Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

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>>A couple more questions from a curious disciple. If they wanted >>to allow it for some special reason, would it still be possible >>to lap the original configuration, or has it been permanently >changed? >I don't think so - the armco barrier looked pretty permanent >;)...

Of course you can't lap the original configuration. The Sudkehre was destroyed to build the new Grand Prix course. But the armco barrier that makes you turn right after Hohenrain is not permament. A few times a year, the Grand Prix Strecke is linked to the Nordschleife. I don't see the point of that, but it's popular with a lot of riders. I believe this is a fixture on Easter Monday, and the only time I've seen it, personally. -Laurens de Jong, The Netherlands. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com