gpl--going faster

I know this has been done to death but I need a hug :-) How long does it take to get good at this game and what is the best way to practice (race? training? all tracks and cars? one track and car?) I've feel like I've improved a lot (the squash ball helped) and I think i am more consistent BUT I just finished what I thought was for sure my best lap ever at Spa (in the Brahbam) and ended up at 3:29 and change. My PB is like a second better than that and I made that when my style involved a lot of smoke off the tires. I did a spygirl thing with the hotlap that comes with the game and I was losing major ground in the eau rouge and a bit everywhere else. I've gotten through Masta before at around 170 but I'm usually around 165 (and that is with, er, less than 100% success) and I've seen people take it at 180. Right now I'm trying to concentrate on keeping focused ahead of the car (brakepoint, apex, trackout, brakepoint, apex, trackout...) maybe that will help. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

You're on the right track. Try the Lotus and you'll be much faster. Make sure you download some good setups and you'll be there. Listen to your tires - it helps me. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8idqr6$314$[email hidden]...

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> I know this has been done to death but I need a hug :-) > How long does it take to get good at this game and what is the best way > to practice (race? training? all tracks and cars? one track and car?) > I've feel like I've improved a lot (the squash ball helped) and I think > i am more consistent BUT I just finished what I thought was for sure my > best lap ever at Spa (in the Brahbam) and ended up at 3:29 and change. > My PB is like a second better than that and I made that when my style > involved a lot of smoke off the tires. I did a spygirl thing with the > hotlap that comes with the game and I was losing major ground in the > eau rouge and a bit everywhere else. I've gotten through Masta before > at around 170 but I'm usually around 165 (and that is with, er, less > than 100% success) and I've seen people take it at 180. Right now I'm > trying to concentrate on keeping focused ahead of the car (brakepoint, > apex, trackout, brakepoint, apex, trackout...) maybe that will help. > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

The thing I notice most about beginners is that they brake too early. You might need to work on that. Also, keep in mind you can generally find more time in the slow corners than the fast ones. I don't consider Masta a very important corner, unless of course there's another car right on your gearbox. If you're taking it at 165 I'll bet you're not even losing a whole second there. Good luck. -A <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8idqr6$314$[email hidden]...

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> I know this has been done to death but I need a hug :-) > How long does it take to get good at this game and what is the best way > to practice (race? training? all tracks and cars? one track and car?) > I've feel like I've improved a lot (the squash ball helped) and I think > i am more consistent BUT I just finished what I thought was for sure my > best lap ever at Spa (in the Brahbam) and ended up at 3:29 and change. > My PB is like a second better than that and I made that when my style > involved a lot of smoke off the tires. I did a spygirl thing with the > hotlap that comes with the game and I was losing major ground in the > eau rouge and a bit everywhere else. I've gotten through Masta before > at around 170 but I'm usually around 165 (and that is with, er, less > than 100% success) and I've seen people take it at 180. Right now I'm > trying to concentrate on keeping focused ahead of the car (brakepoint, > apex, trackout, brakepoint, apex, trackout...) maybe that will help. > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

On Fri 16 Jun 2000 07:15:18pm, [email hidden] wrote: >I know this has been done to death but I need a hug :-) >How long does it take to get good at this game Approximately three aeons. (Margin of error: 200,000,000 years) > and what is the best way to practice (race? training? all tracks and >cars? one track and car?) Whatever's best for you. Like a lot of things about GPL, opinions vary. But mine is that you'd do best to have one "favourite" chassis (mine is the Lotus) and use that most of the time, but give yourself a change occasionally. As for circuits, you'll get deathly bored doing one track time after time, even if it's Spa. Try somewhere a little less obvious, like Mosport or Rouen (both good Lotus tracks). >I've feel like I've improved a lot (the squash ball helped) >and I think i am more consistent BUT I just finished what I thought >was for sure my best lap ever at Spa (in the Brahbam) and ended up >at 3:29 and change. That's not at all bad in a Brabham, actually. At least three cars (Lotus, Ferrari and Eagle) are better suited to Spa - a wide, fast track like that doesn't suit the Brabham. >My PB is like a second better than that and I made that when my style >involved a lot of smoke off the tires. Mine still does... >I was losing major ground in the eau rouge and a bit everywhere else. Eau Rouge? Try this. Come out of the hairpin, and put your foot down (careful when changing up from 1st to 2nd, as it's a little skittish). Move over to the right-hand side of the track, so that your right-hand wheels are along the line marking the edge of the pitlane. Angle the car so that your left-hand wheels will *just* miss the wall on the left. By this time, you might (depending on setup) be changing into 4th. Down to 3rd for the uphill right-hander, then go right up to the bank for the left-hander - you might slide a bit, but that's fine. Works for me! (In the Eagle, of course - nothing beats it at Spa.) >gotten through Masta before at around 170 but I'm usually around 165 >(and that is with, er, less than 100% success) and I've seen people >take it at 180. Right now I'm trying to concentrate on keeping >focused ahead of the car (brakepoint, apex, trackout, brakepoint, >apex, trackout...) maybe that will help. I'm about where you are on that one. 170 is the fastest I'll risk in a race. I *have* done 175 successfully, but I tend to get overexcited when I do it (on my PB lap, I went down to 167 there). The really top drivers (ie not me...) don't brake at all, just lift off a bit. but you need very precise positioning for that. -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

"Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e19i0KU2$GA.462@cpmsnbbsa08... > Your arguments are all correct, but in the end you reach the wrong > conclusion because there are other factors you haven't considered.Consider > how much earlier you have to brake to take a slow corner slow, compared to > taking a corner like Masta slow which is just a matter of lifting a bit > earlier. Yes, understood, and that is a large part of Masta's uniqueness. There isn't any room to make up what you lost. Once you commit to the line, the best you can do is ride it out, and then stand on the gas for the next 13 seconds. The line you take into Masta, and the speed you carry coming out, determines how fast you go, not just through the kink, but for the next 15 seconds. OTOH, you have a whole lot more flexibility getting through La Source. > Consider how much time you spend in a fast kink like Masta vs how > much you spend in a hairpin like La Source. Take a 45 mph corner at 30mph > and you spend 50% too much time time mid-corner, take a 180mph corner like > Masta at 165mph and you only spend about 13% too much time mid-corner. Well, you have to know by now that I can't disagree more. Exit speed before a long straight is the determinant, much more so than the time spent in the corner. It's entirely possible to drive into La Source at 30, get on the gas sooner, and exit faster than someone else scrubbing his way through at 45, out of shape, and gets on the gas much later. I don't think you have time to blink in the time it takes an F1 to go from 30 to 45, not that either way is to be recommended... There simply isn't room, or power, to do this a Masta. And this is all I was trying to say. Being 5 mph slow on a straight means he's pulling away from you at 5 mph, no matter how fast you're going. The longer the straight, the longer he's pulling away, and the larger that deficit becomes. This is different from coming out behind someone at the same speed; when you get where you're going, you're still only that same difference behind. > But more importantly, my opinion is based on my personal experience, noton > these little side-arguments. I know that my PB at Spa is 3:17.3, and if I > screw up Masta and take it at 170 instead of 180, I can still do something > like 3:17.8. Yup. A small percentage difference exiting that little flea-flicker of a kink can cost you a staggering 0.5 seconds per lap. There isn't anything you can do to make up that difference, given equal performance. Contrast this with La Source, where you're fighting spin limit rather than lateral G's. > I used to think fast corners and exit-speed were extremely important too, > but a year of farting around with GPL Dump and trying to improve my times > has taught me to think differently. This is something we can agree on. I've given up on hot-lapping, too. Driving a consistent line through the race is far more important. I can't get through Masta at 180 consistently, but 170 is comfortable with gas in the tank to go the distance. Contrary to my hard stance earlier, the time lost is small compared to putting yourself out of the race. Michael.

Your arguments are all correct, but in the end you reach the wrong conclusion because there are other factors you haven't considered. Consider how much earlier you have to brake to take a slow corner slow, compared to taking a corner like Masta slow which is just a matter of lifting a bit earlier. Consider how much time you spend in a fast kink like Masta vs how much you spend in a hairpin like La Source. Take a 45 mph corner at 30 mph and you spend 50% too much time time mid-corner, take a 180mph corner like Masta at 165mph and you only spend about 13% too much time mid-corner. But more importantly, my opinion is based on my personal experience, not on these little side-arguments. I know that my PB at Spa is 3:17.3, and if I screw up Masta and take it at 170 instead of 180, I can still do something like 3:17.8. I used to think fast corners and exit-speed were extremely important too, but a year of farting around with GPL Dump and trying to improve my times has taught me to think differently. -A Michael Young <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uJLtu8M2$GA.287@cpmsnbbsa09... > > ... Also, keep in mind you can generally find more > > time in the slow corners than the fast ones. > > Not! You have a lot more acceleration potential at slow speed than high > speed. Exiting a fast corner slowly hurts you much more than exiting a

slow > corner slowly. This is simple physics: Power requirements vary with the > square of the speed. The faster you go, the more power you need to simply > maintain your speed. The more power spent maintaining your speed, the less > power you have left over to accelerate. The less excess power you have,the

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> slower you accelerate. The slower you accelerate, the longer it takes to > gain back a given amount of speed. This is simple physics, not to mention > commonsense. > > > I don't consider Masta a very > > important corner, unless of course there's another car right on your > > gearbox. If you're taking it at 165 I'll bet you're not even losing a > whole > > second there. > > IMHO, opinions don't matter a heck of a much when it's based on ignorance

or > lazy thinking. Exiting Masta poorly, of all corners to talk about, costsyou > more than any other corner in GPL.First and foremost: "a whole second" is > **BIG**, even at longer tracks like Spa. Second: you don't gain back speed > out of fast corners near as quickly, as noted above. Third: you carry any > deficit all the way to Stavelot. Exiting Masta 5 mph slower means you're 5 > mph slower at every point along the way. There are longer straights; atthe > 'Ring, for one. There are faster corners; also at the 'Ring, and maybeeven > at Monza. But there is no faster corner followed by a longer straight > leading to another fast corner than Masta. > > Even so, you need to be 14 mph slower out of Masta to lose a full second. > OTOH, 5 mph slower equates to more than 100 ft, about 4 car lengths, when > you get to Stavelot. That's space enough to pass. You can bet I won't beon > your gearbox if I know you'll be exiting slow. I'll hang back far enoughto

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> hit it at my pace, and then blow the paint off your car coming out. > > Michael. > > > >

Then you might need to improve your mid-corner speed so you don't need to brake so much. Sorry, I know that's a terrible answer. :o) EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If you brake *any* later, you're off the track..... At least in MYcase.<g>

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> > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL hcp. 1:45.49 minutes-GPLRank:342 as of 6/15/00 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <uJLtu8M2$GA.287@cpmsnbbsa09>, "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>The thing I notice most about beginners is that they brake too early. You >might need to work on that. Also, keep in mind you can generally find more >time in the slow corners than the fast ones. I don't consider Masta a very >important corner, unless of course there's another car right on your >gearbox. If you're taking it at 165 I'll bet you're not even losing a whole >second there. > >Good luck. >

If you brake *any* later, you're off the track..... At least in MY case.<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 1:45.49 minutes-GPLRank:342 as of 6/15/00 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uJLtu8M2$GA.287@cpmsnbbsa09... > ... Also, keep in mind you can generally find more > time in the slow corners than the fast ones. Not! You have a lot more acceleration potential at slow speed than high speed. Exiting a fast corner slowly hurts you much more than exiting a slow corner slowly. This is simple physics: Power requirements vary with the square of the speed. The faster you go, the more power you need to simply maintain your speed. The more power spent maintaining your speed, the less power you have left over to accelerate. The less excess power you have, the slower you accelerate. The slower you accelerate, the longer it takes to gain back a given amount of speed. This is simple physics, not to mention commonsense. > I don't consider Masta a very > important corner, unless of course there's another car right on your > gearbox. If you're taking it at 165 I'll bet you're not even losing awhole > second there. IMHO, opinions don't matter a heck of a much when it's based on ignorance or lazy thinking. Exiting Masta poorly, of all corners to talk about, costs you more than any other corner in GPL.First and foremost: "a whole second" is **BIG**, even at longer tracks like Spa. Second: you don't gain back speed out of fast corners near as quickly, as noted above. Third: you carry any deficit all the way to Stavelot. Exiting Masta 5 mph slower means you're 5 mph slower at every point along the way. There are longer straights; at the 'Ring, for one. There are faster corners; also at the 'Ring, and maybe even at Monza. But there is no faster corner followed by a longer straight leading to another fast corner than Masta. Even so, you need to be 14 mph slower out of Masta to lose a full second. OTOH, 5 mph slower equates to more than 100 ft, about 4 car lengths, when you get to Stavelot. That's space enough to pass. You can bet I won't be on your gearbox if I know you'll be exiting slow. I'll hang back far enough to hit it at my pace, and then blow the paint off your car coming out. Michael.

People must use really cheap paint where you live. ;-) Jan. =--- Michael Young wrote...

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> <snip> You can bet I won't be on > your gearbox if I know you'll be exiting slow. > I'll hang back far enough to hit it at my pace, > and then blow the paint off your car coming out. > > Michael. > > > >

Michael Young <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:e19i0KU2$GA.462@cpmsnbbsa08... > > Your arguments are all correct, but in the end you reach the wrong > > conclusion because there are other factors you haven't considered. > Consider > > how much earlier you have to brake to take a slow corner slow, comparedto > > taking a corner like Masta slow which is just a matter of lifting a bit > > earlier. > > Yes, understood, and that is a large part of Masta's uniqueness. Thereisn't > any room to make up what you lost. Once you commit to the line, the bestyou > can do is ride it out, and then stand on the gas for the next 13 seconds. > The line you take into Masta, and the speed you carry coming out,determines > how fast you go, not just through the kink, but for the next 15 seconds. > OTOH, you have a whole lot more flexibility getting through La Source. What it really boils down to, is that the most important corners are the corners where you suck. Keep in mind we were originally talking about a driver who turns pretty lousy 3:28's at Spa, yet takes Masta at a nearly respectable 165 mph. Doesn't sound like someone who should be fretting about Masta. My experience has been that I lose most of my time to Greger Huttu in the slow corners, usually in braking zones or mid-corner, so I put emphasis on the slow corners with my own driving. I'll back down a bit and admit that other people's experiences could be different, although my intuition still tells me I'm not the only one who has noticed huge spikes on my time-lost graph when I brake too early for a slow corner. > > > Consider how much time you spend in a fast kink like Masta vs how > > much you spend in a hairpin like La Source. Take a 45 mph corner at 30 > mph > > and you spend 50% too much time time mid-corner, take a 180mph cornerlike > > Masta at 165mph and you only spend about 13% too much time mid-corner. > > Well, you have to know by now that I can't disagree more. Exit speedbefore > a long straight is the determinant, much more so than the time spent inthe > corner. It's entirely possible to drive into La Source at 30, get on thegas > sooner, and exit faster than someone else scrubbing his way through at 45, > out of shape, and gets on the gas much later. I don't think you have timeto > blink in the time it takes an F1 to go from 30 to 45, not that either wayis > to be recommended... There simply isn't room, or power, to do this aMasta. > And this is all I was trying to say. Being 5 mph slow on a straight means > he's pulling away from you at 5 mph, no matter how fast you're going. The > longer the straight, the longer he's pulling away, and the larger that > deficit becomes. This is different from coming out behind someone at the > same speed; when you get where you're going, you're still only that same > difference behind. You made some small mistakes here. If you exit Masta 5 mph too slow, by the end of the straight you're doing about 200 and he's doing 202, though yes, he is of course pulling away from you. However, he is pulling away from you even if you exit at the exact same speed; simply by virtue of being in front of you, and getting to the point where he can hit the gas first (assuming you're not close enough to catch a draft). Same principle applies to a slow corner. So you are incorrect to say, "This is different from coming out behind someone at the same speed; when you get where you're going, you're still only that same difference behind." With regards to our La Source example, again you aren't taking everything into consideration. In order to take La Source at 35 instead of 45, you need to brake a bit earlier. This is extremely bad. This was my first revelation when comparing my own laps to Greger's. Braking too early for a corner causes huge spikes on the time-lost graph. The spike continues to rise steeply, with an intriguingly straight slope, the entire length of the braking zone (even if you brake just as hard as Greger). It rises much more steeply than with any other driving error you can make- short of hitting a wall. I suppose this was where I first got my idea that the slow corners were important. Simply because braking is not as much of an issue in a fast corner. > > > But more importantly, my opinion is based on my personal experience, not > on > > these little side-arguments. I know that my PB at Spa is 3:17.3, and ifI > > screw up Masta and take it at 170 instead of 180, I can still dosomething > > like 3:17.8. > > Yup. A small percentage difference exiting that little flea-flicker of a > kink can cost you a staggering 0.5 seconds per lap. There isn't anythingyou > can do to make up that difference, given equal performance. Contrast this > with La Source, where you're fighting spin limit rather than lateral G's. I suppose it might be a 0.5 second problem for many drivers, but since I can take Masta at 180 half the time, and 175 the rest of the time, so I just don't worry about that too much. Our friend who takes it at 165 shouldn't worry about it too much either, because he's not losing much time there compared to the rest of the track. He'd do better to figure out where he's losing his other 16 seconds. I'll admit that Masta could be important for your typical moderately skilled driver. But not every fast corner has such a long straight after it. Respectfully, Aubrey

"Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OZ2343l2$GA.241@cpmsnbbsa09... > He'd do better to figure out where he's > losing his other 16 seconds. I'll admit that Masta could be important for > your typical moderately skilled driver. But not every fast corner hassuch > a long straight after it. Of course, you're right; I should have realized this was still the context. :-) Michael.

Are you serious? And here I thought we were having such a fun little argument. :) Michael Young <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OZ2343l2$GA.241@cpmsnbbsa09... > > He'd do better to figure out where he's > > losing his other 16 seconds. I'll admit that Masta could be importantfor > > your typical moderately skilled driver. But not every fast corner has > such > > a long straight after it. > > Of course, you're right; I should have realized this was still thecontext. > :-) > > Michael. > > >

In article <enPpJSU2$GA.399@cpmsnbbsa08>, "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Then you might need to improve your mid-corner speed so you don't need to >brake so much. > >Sorry, I know that's a terrible answer. :o) > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> If you brake *any* later, you're off the track..... At least in MY >case.<g> >> >> Eldred

You're right - that IS a terrible answer...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. 1:45.49 minutes-GPLRank:342 as of 6/15/00 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.