Re: Speed at Spa, or lack thereof...

In article <DE8Y4.60739$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Why do you insist on running when you're still struggling to walk? -It's no >use comparing yourself to Greger unless you're within a couple of seconds of >him. As you may or may not know I am sceptic with regard to this "mental" >business in racing, but one thing's for sure: if you don't believe you can >do it, you won't do it.I figured, shoot high. Even if I fall short, I'm still ahead of where I WAS...

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> >Let's, therefore, set a more realistic (achievable/believable, call it what >you want) goal. Let's take 5 seconds off. I'm nothing special in a GPL F1 >car, I hardly ever practise aside from actual online races, so anything I >can do, everyone can do. I have posted my fastest race lap from the 2nd MARA >E-Division Spa race to alt.binaries.simulators.autos (subject: lap for >Eldred), along with the setups I used. I use the Ferrari, but using the GRE >it should be pretty easy to port the setups to the Eagle. > >Have a look and I'm sure you'll be able to see yourself "matching" that. >Don't hesitate to contact me if there's any questions. Once you're up to my >level, find a lap that's 5 seconds faster and so on and so forth untill >Greger is forced to ask you how the <expletive> you do it! ;-)

I won't hold my breath for THAT...<g>

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> >Without having actually seen you drive or looked at your setups there's >little more I can do at this time. You might be too brutal turning in, >trying to carry too much speed for your setup or just not using enough of >the track. There's no telling what's holding you back at this time. > >Cheers,

Maybe I'll post a lap in the binary group... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Greger Huttu) writes:

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>>The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph >on >>entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF that >time... >>What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to follow the >>same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feel >like >>I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >>help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is >3:12.xx, >>mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or >so. >>I need a magic bullet<g> > >Mmm, well, it's really hard to give any hints like this. Just the >usual; don't try to push, just drive smoothly and concentrate on the >exit of the corners so you don't have to lift off after you have >started accelerating. This is really important especially at Spa and >in corners like Les Comber, Malmedy and Stavelot. > >Just be *smooth*. Once you hear that 'click' in your brain you will go >a few seconds faster, I'm sure you can do it. :) > >Oh, what kind of a setup do you use? You can send me the replay too if >you like and I'll have a look.

What setup? YOURS!<g> It took me 8 laps just to get through a lap without spinning or hitting the wall... So, it isn't the setup... :) I'll send you a replay. Thanks. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> writes: >Gotta say, at least you don't stop trying. :-) We talked about lines and >setup some months ago. At 3:29, I'm guessing you still have some small setup >adjustments to help your car balance, but you've got a reasonable handle on >things. The rest of your time is "wasted" in your comfort zone buffer. >No, I haven't given up - yet. But I'm close. K6/3-400, TSW wheel - if a faster machine and bigger monitor don't do it, I *will* quit... I don't think it's the setup. You'll see why in another message...<g>

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>I'm guessing you're like the rest of us: you expect to make some small >adjustments in mid-turn to clean up your entry. Masta probably shows this >more glaringly than any other corner. If you miss the entrance at speed, you >don't have time or space to correct it. If you go in slow enough to fix >things, you're way slow. The problem really is that simple: nail the >entrance, and your problem is half solved. Stirling Moss said something once >about committing to corners. You basically toss it in, and the trajectory >has to be right to carry you out. Masta is like that. At 190+ going in, the >window is small to where you might think it can't be done. But you know that >it can be done, because you've seen others do it, and came pretty close >yourself. The other corners differ only by degree; there's a bit more room >to "fix" things without losing tons of time. I think this is what makes >Masta so special to all of us.

I don't know that I've come close - I'm about 15-20 mph off, and that translates to *tons* of speed down the following straight.

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> >If your setup is right, the rest is finding the line. There really is only >one line through the fast corners. Once your find the line, you have to hit >it consistently lap after lap. The line changes with speed. Right at the >limit, even a few mph either way changes the line dramatically (this is a >self-defining proof; if you can be faster, you're not at the limit.) Work on >finding, and then hitting, the turn-in point all the time, at the same speed >all the time. That last few percent is a real bitch, isn't it? > >Michael.

If *I* can be faster, or if someone ELSE can be faster? Those are two different things...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > No, I haven't given up - yet. But I'm close. K6/3-400, TSW wheel - if a > faster machine and bigger monitor don't do it, I *will* quit... > I don't think it's the setup. You'll see why in another message...<g> Oh, you mean Gregor's setup. :-) Well, I have to agree the empirical proof seems to say it defines the car's absolute limits. That's not to say I can drive it, though. It really is twitchy; watch the suspension movement in a replay, and you'll see that it rides on the bump stops around corners. It rides on the stops when I sneeze, for that matter. The long and short is that I have to drive it different that I do my own setup. > I don't know that I've come close - I'm about 15-20 mph off, and that > translates to *tons* of speed down the following straight. I mean the ones that *almost* made it. The ones where you think, as you carom off the inside guardrail at the right hander, that the turn-in could have been a little sooner, and the lift just a little less deep, and maybe not fight the car's balance as it crosses the centerline, etc. You have to commit to the corner (Masta in particular, but everywhere else in general), and you can't do this bringing the speed up gradually. In real life you have no choice, but here, you do. Pick the speed you want to go in at. My turn-in speed is 191. I didn't pick it; it just happened that I always lifted a touch before turn-in, and that's what I end up with. Find a landmark as close to your turn-in as possible, and work on nailing the same point everytime. Work this point back and forth, closer and farther, until you get the trajectory you want through the curve. You'll know it when you hit it. Instead of fighting the car into the rightie -- which I'm sure you know only causes you to spin to the inside -- it feels balanced and ready for the second turn-in. It won't help you, but my thinking in those few microseconds goes something like this: It's a gentle turn-in, right tire just off the pavement, running straight for at least a few before the turn-in. My turn-in marker is on the embankment, on the inside of the curve, and it's more a smudge than a real marker; that's as best as I can describe it. Pick one that you can see and works for you. I catch the smudge almost in peripheral vision, lift *gently* and anticipate the turn-in. When the smudge gets about "yea" from the right screen edge, I turn in very gently, more of a slight, progressive rocking motion on the wheel than a flick, as I've heard others describe. The nose should feel like it almost wants to bite the embankment, but the drift will carry you clear. You want to clip the dirt on the inside by a bit more than half the tire width. I think, but don't know for certain, that the wheel is straight by the time I hit apex. At any rate, you need to be squeezing down on the gas to balance the car and correct the tail, not steering it out. My goal is to balance the car before crossing the road centerline. There is a slight pause before the turn-in for the right hander. With FF, I can feel the tires bite again I cross the road crown, and turn in gently. Here, I usually lift again, a bit more deeply than the first turn-in, but this one is more by feel than anticipation. Squeeze it back in as you unwind the wheel, drifting very strongly down the reverse side of the crown. When everything goes right, you wonder why you ever had a problem. You can remind yourself the very next lap by missing the turn-in point. Anyway, you know it can be done, so go throw the car around until you figure out how and where. > If *I* can be faster, or if someone ELSE can be faster? Those are two > different things...<g> Yes, but I hold a slightly different view. If the *car* has a bit more lateral g's left to give that I'm not using, I'm not driving it to its potential. You might tweak the setup to move that potential somewhere else, or you might learn to drive it a little faster there. The setup compromises some handling aspect to favor another. Maybe you want better turn-in on the fast lefties, but have to give up something from the sweeping righties. All of this is moot if you can't or won't drive the limit. Control freaks will never be fast. Right at the limit, there is no margin to allow for corrections. It really is as Stirling wrote; you're not at the limit if you *drive* it through the corner instead of *throwing* it through. Some throws are just gentler than others... Michael.

Me again, bitching... I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake - it's humiliating... Greger, how the <expletive deleted> do you DO it??? The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph on entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF that time... What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to follow the same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feel like I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. I need a magic bullet<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Gotta say, at least you don't stop trying. :-) We talked about lines and setup some months ago. At 3:29, I'm guessing you still have some small setup adjustments to help your car balance, but you've got a reasonable handle on things. The rest of your time is "wasted" in your comfort zone buffer. I'm guessing you're like the rest of us: you expect to make some small adjustments in mid-turn to clean up your entry. Masta probably shows this more glaringly than any other corner. If you miss the entrance at speed, you don't have time or space to correct it. If you go in slow enough to fix things, you're way slow. The problem really is that simple: nail the entrance, and your problem is half solved. Stirling Moss said something once about committing to corners. You basically toss it in, and the trajectory has to be right to carry you out. Masta is like that. At 190+ going in, the window is small to where you might think it can't be done. But you know that it can be done, because you've seen others do it, and came pretty close yourself. The other corners differ only by degree; there's a bit more room to "fix" things without losing tons of time. I think this is what makes Masta so special to all of us. If your setup is right, the rest is finding the line. There really is only one line through the fast corners. Once your find the line, you have to hit it consistently lap after lap. The line changes with speed. Right at the limit, even a few mph either way changes the line dramatically (this is a self-defining proof; if you can be faster, you're not at the limit.) Work on finding, and then hitting, the turn-in point all the time, at the same speed all the time. That last few percent is a real bitch, isn't it? Michael. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Me again, bitching... > I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake - it's > humiliating... > Greger, how the <expletive deleted> do you DO it??? > > The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mphon > entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF thattime... > What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to followthe > same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feellike > I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Somethingto > help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is3:12.xx, > mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 orso.

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> I need a magic bullet<g> > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 28 May 2000 01:51:27 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Me again, bitching... >I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake - it's >humiliating... >Greger, how the <expletive deleted> do you DO it??? How the <beep> do I do it? I don't know. :)

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>The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph on >entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF that time... >What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to follow the >same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feel like >I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, >mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. >I need a magic bullet<g>

Mmm, well, it's really hard to give any hints like this. Just the usual; don't try to push, just drive smoothly and concentrate on the exit of the corners so you don't have to lift off after you have started accelerating. This is really important especially at Spa and in corners like Les Comber, Malmedy and Stavelot. Just be *smooth*. Once you hear that 'click' in your brain you will go a few seconds faster, I'm sure you can do it. :) Oh, what kind of a setup do you use? You can send me the replay too if you like and I'll have a look. - Greger http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

Try to carry more speed into Stavelot, you should be breaking lighty at first then put more power on in the middle of the turn then start to break harder before you get to the wall on the left. Hold a tight line close to the wall and then give it full throttle at about the mid point of the wall. This will probably gain you the most time. I was doing 3:29s before I tried this now I'm getting low 3:23s. David EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Me again, bitching... > I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake - it's > humiliating... > Greger, how the <expletive deleted> do you DO it??? > > The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mphon > entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF thattime... > What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to followthe > same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feellike > I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Somethingto > help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is3:12.xx, > mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 orso.

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> I need a magic bullet<g> > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <20000527215127.16349.00001323@nso- ce.aol.com>: >The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph on >entry), Blanchimont(29mph). Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? >I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, >mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. >I need a magic bullet<g> I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and I've found it THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think it's because it's so fast, the car is closer to the edge, and the margin from being in control, to out of control is narrower. I don't know really. I've just broken into the 23s in the BRM, and people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. There are also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we again can't feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy is my worst corner, it seems like every lap is a crap shoot, as to whether I'm going to make it without a crash. But, my times are incrementally coming down. Practice, practice, practice. > >Eldred -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

I love the Spa, definitely one of my favorites in GPL. Takes a little while to get the hang of it, but once you do you should fly - very fast track. I'm trying to learn the Ring now, yegads - now this is a long track. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8F41D3164dscurlock@news... > [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <20000527215127.16349.00001323@nso- > ce.aol.com>: > > >The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph on > >entry), Blanchimont(29mph). > > Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? > > >I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to > >help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, > >mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. > >I need a magic bullet<g> > > I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and I've found it > THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think it's because it's so fast, > the car is closer to the edge, and the margin from being in control, to out of > control is narrower. I don't know really. I've just broken into the 23s in the > BRM, and people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. There are > also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we again can't > feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy is my worst corner, it > seems like every lap is a crap shoot, as to whether I'm going to make it > without a crash. But, my times are incrementally coming down. Practice, > practice, practice. > > > > >Eldred > > > -- > Don Scurlock > Vancouver,B.C.

I love Spa it has to be one of the best, I'm down in the 3:21 range and can not seem to go any faster. Thats in the eagle and that is my favorite car on all of the tracks. It seems to be a big heavy car on some tracks like Zandvoort but it is still my personal favorite. These guys who are doing 3:13's or better must be some kind of supermen or on steroids or something, for the rest of us mere mortals anything in the 3:30 range is very good i think. It took me about six months to hit the 3:30's and another six months to get to the 3:21's but so far I've stalled at that time and now need another six months to get to the 3:19's hopefully. Anyways just wanted to say i read your post and could relate to it competely, now it's time to go and get another beer and get down to the serious business of racing. (thats what i tell my wife) Good Luck All! Steve. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fR0Y4.20683$[email hidden]... > I love the Spa, definitely one of my favorites in GPL. > Takes a little while to get the hang of it, but once you do you shouldfly -

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> very fast track. > I'm trying to learn the Ring now, yegads - now this is a long track. > > -- > Don Burnette > Dburn in N3 and Legends > ICQ# 74084566 > > "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8F41D3164dscurlock@news... > > [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in > <20000527215127.16349.00001323@nso- > > ce.aol.com>: > > > > >The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), > Stavelot(24mph on > > >entry), Blanchimont(29mph). > > > > Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? > > > > >I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing?

Something

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> to > > >help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is > 3:12.xx, > > >mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 > or so. > > >I need a magic bullet<g> > > > > I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and I've

found > it > > THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think it's because it'sso > fast, > > the car is closer to the edge, and the margin from being in control, to > out of > > control is narrower. I don't know really. I've just broken into the 23sin > the > > BRM, and people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. > There are > > also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we againcan't > > feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy is my worstcorner,

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> it > > seems like every lap is a crap shoot, as to whether I'm going to make it > > without a crash. But, my times are incrementally coming down. Practice, > > practice, practice. > > > > > > > >Eldred > > > > > > -- > > Don Scurlock > > Vancouver,B.C. > >

ce.aol.com>: Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and I've found it THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think it's because it's so fast, the car is closer to the edge, and the margin from being in control, to out of control is narrower. I don't know really. I've just broken into the 23s in the BRM, and people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. There are also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we again can't feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy is my worst corner, it seems like every lap is a ***shoot, as to whether I'm going to make it without a crash. But, my times are incrementally coming down. Practice, practice, practice. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

That's interesting. I basically scrub speed there by inducing trailing throttle oversteer... obviously faster on entry, but not as precise because I have to gather the car up to tackle the 2nd part. Have to give that a go sometime. Left foot braking, I imagine? Jan./3m23.06s, Ferrari =--- D.Bryant wrote... > Try to carry more speed into Stavelot, you should be breaking lighty at > first then put more power on in the middle of the turn then start to break > harder before you get to the wall on the left. Hold a tight line close to > the wall and then give it full throttle at about the mid point of thewall. > This will probably gain you the most time. I was doing 3:29s before Itried

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> this now I'm getting low 3:23s. > > David > > EldredP wrote... > > Me again, bitching... > > <snip>

EldredP wrote... > Me again, bitching... > I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake > - it's humiliating... Greger, how the <expletive deleted> > do you DO it??? Ooooh, big mistake indeed. You shouldn't be comparing laps with him yet.

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> The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), > Stavelot(24mph on entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even > sure I can make up HALF that time... What am I supposed to > be looking for to fix? I might be able to follow the same > line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I > *already* feel like I'm on the edge... Is there any mental > idea that I'm missing? Something to help me get closer? > Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, > mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get > down below 3:20 or so. I need a magic bullet<g>

Why do you insist on running when you're still struggling to walk? -It's no use comparing yourself to Greger unless you're within a couple of seconds of him. As you may or may not know I am sceptic with regard to this "mental" business in racing, but one thing's for sure: if you don't believe you can do it, you won't do it. Let's, therefore, set a more realistic (achievable/believable, call it what you want) goal. Let's take 5 seconds off. I'm nothing special in a GPL F1 car, I hardly ever practise aside from actual online races, so anything I can do, everyone can do. I have posted my fastest race lap from the 2nd MARA E-Division Spa race to alt.binaries.simulators.autos (subject: lap for Eldred), along with the setups I used. I use the Ferrari, but using the GRE it should be pretty easy to port the setups to the Eagle. Have a look and I'm sure you'll be able to see yourself "matching" that. Don't hesitate to contact me if there's any questions. Once you're up to my level, find a lap that's 5 seconds faster and so on and so forth untill Greger is forced to ask you how the <expletive> you do it! ;-) Without having actually seen you drive or looked at your setups there's little more I can do at this time. You might be too brutal turning in, trying to carry too much speed for your setup or just not using enough of the track. There's no telling what's holding you back at this time. Cheers, Jan. =--- PS.: anybody wishing to comment on my driving, feel free to do so in response to this message (or via E-mail, but replying to the ng gives Eldred the benifit of your insights). I am very much aware of my limitations and would appreciate your input. Modify the subject please though.

On 28 May 2000 15:50:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>> >>Oh, what kind of a setup do you use? You can send me the replay too if >>you like and I'll have a look. > >What setup? YOURS!<g> It took me 8 laps just to get through a lap without >spinning or hitting the wall... So, it isn't the setup... :) I'll send you a >replay. Thanks. > >Eldred

Well that could be a large part of your problem. Greger's driving style (and all the top hotlappers for that matter) is pretty extreme to get the fastest possible laps, and his setups are no doubt tuned to squeeze the utmost out of his abilities. If you use his setups verbatim you'll have all sorts of problems maintaining any kind of speed. I find I usually scale 1% back on the brake bias and stiffen up the front end a bit, as well as lengthen 1 or 2 gears a bit. Just my preference but it keeps me on the road. So try that. Maybe you'll go faster. I like Roland's setups too. Bit of a mix-and-match between these 2 before I come up with something I can handle. Oh yeah, and remember if you're not using split-axis, this can have an effect on how easy it is to drive someone else's setup. Gregger for example uses a split-axis setup (according to an earlier post of his). Good luck!

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So in other words, I gotta tear up some cars...<g> Ok, I don't have topay for > them. The only problem is the lap is so long between crashes - I mean > attempts... :) Yes, and you need about 1-1/2 laps to get the tires to race temp's too. You're looking for the limit of what the car will do, and you can't do that on cold tires. It's a shame you can't save a snapshot of a good run out of Malmedy, and pick up there again to practice. Michael.

In article <[email hidden]>, Duff <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On 28 May 2000 15:50:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>> >>>Oh, what kind of a setup do you use? You can send me the replay too if >>>you like and I'll have a look. >> >>What setup? YOURS!<g> It took me 8 laps just to get through a lap without >>spinning or hitting the wall... So, it isn't the setup... :) I'll send you >a >>replay. Thanks. >> >>Eldred > >Well that could be a large part of your problem. Greger's driving >style (and all the top hotlappers for that matter) is pretty extreme >to get the fastest possible laps, and his setups are no doubt tuned to >squeeze the utmost out of his abilities. > >If you use his setups verbatim you'll have all sorts of problems >maintaining any kind of speed. I find I usually scale 1% back on the >brake bias and stiffen up the front end a bit, as well as lengthen 1 >or 2 gears a bit. Just my preference but it keeps me on the road. >

You know, I'm not even sure *how* to deal with the gears. With the clutches, it's not just simple increasing the number like in Nascar, is it?

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>So try that. Maybe you'll go faster. I like Roland's setups too. >Bit of a mix-and-match between these 2 before I come up with something >I can handle. > >Oh yeah, and remember if you're not using split-axis, this can have an >effect on how easy it is to drive someone else's setup. Gregger for >example uses a split-axis setup (according to an earlier post of his). > >Good luck! >

Actually, I *do* have a split-axis, but I'm not left-foot braking yet. That's on my list of things to learn...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 28 May 2000 15:50:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Greger >Huttu) writes: > >>>same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feel >>like >>>I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >>>help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is >>3:12.xx, >>>mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or >>so. >>>I need a magic bullet<g> >> >>Oh, what kind of a setup do you use? You can send me the replay too if >>you like and I'll have a look. > >What setup? YOURS!<g> It took me 8 laps just to get through a lap without >spinning or hitting the wall... So, it isn't the setup... :) I'll send you a >replay. Thanks.

Ok, the setup should be fine then. :) It might not suit your driving style though, because some people say that my setups are too loose. I sent you some comments in the mail, and believe me, you're not on the edge yet. You can do that 3:20 at least. - Greger http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/

In article <[email hidden]>, "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I mean the ones that *almost* made it. The ones where you think, as you >carom off the inside guardrail at the right hander, that the turn-in could >have been a little sooner, and the lift just a little less deep, and maybe >not fight the car's balance as it crosses the centerline, etc. > >You have to commit to the corner (Masta in particular, but everywhere else >in general), and you can't do this bringing the speed up gradually. In real >life you have no choice, but here, you do. Pick the speed you want to go in >at. My turn-in speed is 191. I didn't pick it; it just happened that I >always lifted a touch before turn-in, and that's what I end up with. Find a >landmark as close to your turn-in as possible, and work on nailing the same >point everytime. Work this point back and forth, closer and farther, until >you get the trajectory you want through the curve. You'll know it when you >hit it. Instead of fighting the car into the rightie -- which I'm sure you >know only causes you to spin to the inside -- it feels balanced and ready >for the second turn-in.

So in other words, I gotta tear up some cars...<g> Ok, I don't have to pay for them. The only problem is the lap is so long between crashes - I mean attempts... :) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I was just about to ask you that Eldred. I think we can give you a lot more help after seeing one of your replays. I'm not the fastest one on Spa, 1:18 with the Lotus, but I'm sure I can help you a little bit after watching your replay. Andre

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>Maybe I'll post a lap in the binary group... > >Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, EldredP <[email hidden]> writes

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>Me again, bitching... >I just compared one of my fast laps with Huttu's. BIG mistake - it's >humiliating... >Greger, how the <expletive deleted> do you DO it??? > >The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), >Stavelot(24mph on >entry), Blanchimont(29mph). I'm not even sure I can make up HALF that >time... >What am I supposed to be looking for to fix? I might be able to follow the >same line at Greger at about 30mph slower, but at SPEED? I *already* feel >like >I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, >mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or >so. >I need a magic bullet<g> >

No such thing. Just work at it like the rest of us. Hehe. A couple of tips I've picked up one recently. Don't try and be 5+ mph faster through every corner. You may not realise this but up to just a couple of mph faster per corner- which is hardly noticeable - can cut a lap time by over a second and more. Don't try to cut big chunks out of your PBs. Try playing with your controller's linearity setting. I discovered recently that moving it more to non-linear actually gave me more control. I discovered that I had been over-driving before causing big opposite-lock corrections and more crashes. I've now found that I can be just as quick, in fact quicker, whilst being more smooth and with fewer crashes. And one final tip for Spa itself. At Burneville don't bother to stick to the driving line that is shown. Drive inside it until the corner starts to tighten up. Too many times have I been online behind drivers who think they can be quicker if they take that corner wider and yet I'm on the inside line and having to back off. You should be able to go full throttle until the corner tightens, no trouble. And to qualify all this info, PB of 3:16.5 in Lotus though it was a messy lap, but I couldn't be bothered to work on it anymore. It was an improvement over my previous and that was enough until the next time I practice there. :) -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

>Try playing with your controller's linearity setting. I discovered >recently that moving it more to non-linear actually gave me more >control. I discovered that I had been over-driving before causing big >opposite-lock corrections and more crashes. I've now found that I >can be just as quick, in fact quicker, whilst being more smooth and >with fewer crashes. I've had that happen a lot with Greger's setup. Start sliding, and correct - right into the opposite wall. Very painful... Since it's happened more since I got the setup, I figured that was the culprit. Doesn't changing the linearity cause a larger dead zone? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: : I was just about to ask you that Eldred. I think we can give you a lot : more help after seeing one of your replays. I'm not the fastest one on : Spa, 1:18 with the Lotus, but I'm sure I can help you a little bit : after watching your replay. : Andre Andre, You can help him way more than a little bit if you are running 1:18 at Spa. :) Chuck

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>>I saw that, but I was gonna let it go.<g> >>But, I'd settle for being able to run a 3:18, or 3:20's *consistently*... > >I find Spa one of the easiest tracks to drive consistently, the only >place where I screw up sometimes is the masta, when I try to overdo >it. But in an online race I just back off a little bit more before >Masta. Costs me a couple of tenths but that way I won't overdo Masta. > >Has anyone ever completed (and won) a 2 hour race on Monaco against >the AI by the way? I think 20 fast laps on Monaco without crashing is >the best I ever did, so many fatal places there... > >Andre >

Wow, I might have you beat. I did 22 laps - until the chicane reached out and grabbed me...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes

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>On 31 May 2000 02:05:09 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) >wrote: > >>I saw that, but I was gonna let it go.<g> >>But, I'd settle for being able to run a 3:18, or 3:20's *consistently*... > >I find Spa one of the easiest tracks to drive consistently, the only >place where I screw up sometimes is the masta, when I try to overdo >it. But in an online race I just back off a little bit more before >Masta. Costs me a couple of tenths but that way I won't overdo Masta. > >Has anyone ever completed (and won) a 2 hour race on Monaco against >the AI by the way? I think 20 fast laps on Monaco without crashing is >the best I ever did, so many fatal places there... >

I'm sure there are some... but only some. I've finished a few full length races in the past but funnily enough Monaco is not one of them. Blink too long and you might as well start praying that you've still got 4 wheels left after the car goes somewhere it wasn't supposed to. I can hammer it through the chicane 5 laps out of 6 no problem and then, for some strange reason, on the 6th lap the car decides it wants to try and get through sideways. Instant heart palpatations and swearing. After that it's time to watch the race from the stands. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

In article <H3XY4.119$[email hidden]>, Chuck Andersen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >: I was just about to ask you that Eldred. I think we can give you a lot >: more help after seeing one of your replays. I'm not the fastest one on >: Spa, 1:18 with the Lotus, but I'm sure I can help you a little bit >: after watching your replay. >: Andre > >Andre, >You can help him way more than a little bit if you are running 1:18 >at Spa. :) >Chuck >

I saw that, but I was gonna let it go.<g> But, I'd settle for being able to run a 3:18, or 3:20's *consistently*... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 31 May 2000 02:05:09 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I saw that, but I was gonna let it go.<g> >But, I'd settle for being able to run a 3:18, or 3:20's *consistently*... I find Spa one of the easiest tracks to drive consistently, the only place where I screw up sometimes is the masta, when I try to overdo it. But in an online race I just back off a little bit more before Masta. Costs me a couple of tenths but that way I won't overdo Masta. Has anyone ever completed (and won) a 2 hour race on Monaco against the AI by the way? I think 20 fast laps on Monaco without crashing is the best I ever did, so many fatal places there... Andre

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> >Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"just broken into the 23s in the BRM" I am not worthy! Very impressive! I mean the BRM is like a big ol' pig. Can you send me the setup for your BRM that you broke into the 23s with? I would love to compare it. SLG [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote:

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>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <20000527215127.16349.00001323@nso- >ce.aol.com>: > >>The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), Stavelot(24mph on >>entry), Blanchimont(29mph). > >Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? > >>I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? Something to >>help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds off - his lap is 3:12.xx, >>mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. >>I need a magic bullet<g> > >I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and I've found it >THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think it's because it's so fast, >the car is closer to the edge, and the margin from being in control, to out of >control is narrower. I don't know really. I've just broken into the 23s in the >BRM, and people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. There are >also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we again can't >feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy is my worst corner, it >seems like every lap is a crap shoot, as to whether I'm going to make it >without a crash. But, my times are incrementally coming down. Practice, >practice, practice. > >> >>Eldred > > >-- >Don Scurlock >Vancouver,B.C.

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

Go here: http://www.parc-ferme.de/fastlaps.htm then go to the chassis section for setups from the REALLY fast guys 17s and 18s in the BRM. Thats where I get my setups. Unfortunately, it's not the setup that gets you there ;-) [email hidden] (Steve Garrotto) wrote in <[email hidden]>:

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>"just broken into the 23s in the BRM" I am not worthy! > >Very impressive! I mean the BRM is like a big ol' pig. > >Can you send me the setup for your BRM that you broke into the 23s >with? I would love to compare it. > >SLG > >[email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote: > >>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in >><20000527215127.16349.00001323@nso- ce.aol.com>: >> >>>The biggest differences are Eau Rouge(28mph), Masta(17mph), >>>Stavelot(24mph on entry), Blanchimont(29mph). >> >>Oh....you mean any place where the track turns ? >> >>>I'm on the edge... Is there any mental idea that I'm missing? >>>Something to help me get closer? Right now I'm about 17 seconds >>>off - his lap is 3:12.xx, mine is 3:29.xx, both in an Eagle. I'd >>>be happy to get down below 3:20 or so. I need a magic bullet<g> >> >>I've been practicing nothing but Spa for the last two weeks and >>I've found it THE most difficult track to get a handle on. I think >>it's because it's so fast, the car is closer to the edge, and the >>margin from being in control, to out of control is narrower. I >>don't know really. I've just broken into the 23s in the BRM, and >>people are down in the 18 second range, one even in the 17s. There >>are also some major elevation and g-force things happening that we >>again can't feel, and I don't sense, that make it tricky. Malmedy >>is my worst corner, it seems like every lap is a crap shoot, as to >>whether I'm going to make it without a crash. But, my times are >>incrementally coming down. Practice, practice, practice. >> >>> >>>Eldred >> >> >>-- >>Don Scurlock >>Vancouver,B.C. > > >(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new >and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are >due to too many English classes/teachers) > > >

-- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.