Re: GPL will NEVER Be bettered

On Wed 26 Apr 2000 09:35:12pm, Todd Sorensen wrote: >Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will >be a better sim.<snip> Make sure you tell us, will you? I won't be here, in any case, as I'm emigrating to the lawless frontier areas of 61 Cygni about 50 years before that. It's a bit worrying, really - there, you can be branded for playing Sega Rally, put in the stocks for not liking GPL, and hung, drawn and quartered for posting warez on NGs (hey, maybe it's not that bad after all!) -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

>Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a >better sim. > >Todd I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL.

I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL.

Yep... Im sure in 2049 we will still say "Naw... it's not like GPL!" "It sucks". "The tracks are crappy!". "There is no arms in the virtual ***pit!". <vbg> -- ;) -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Sierra will probably still be milking money with their old game engine ;) "NASCAR 250. Now includes realistic gear shift 3d knob, but you still can't flip!". Be sure to buy a week after it's release the "NASCAR 250b Expansion pack", giving you access to the second half of the Winston Cup tracks. This way we can shelve another 40bucks of your pocket since we are so greeeeeeeeeedy :) <sfx : Dr. Evil laugh> -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Here's hoping... 'bout time the bar got moved up a notch. Jan. =---

>>Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a >>better sim. >>Todd >I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL. NASCAR cars are like boats. The reason GPL will be difficult to match is everything about the cars... they are fun to drive. It is PURE racing in my opinion.

The reasons have been discussed time and again. Every new sim is compared to GPL and fails. Even new sims that in future may use the GPL engine will not be as good. The physics can go to hell- it's about the cars that are being simulated. The physics model merely gives the ability to get a good feel of the car you're driving. You could come close with early 50s maybe, but no other era of F1 produced quite the cars of the mid to late 60s: loads of power, minimal grip, soft suspension (relatively) and tortous circuits. Try as they may, no-one will ever better GPL for pure feel unless they do the '67 (or maybe '68) season again (and let us have the McLaren-BRM as well as the other cars). Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm my commitment to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPL appreciation society!!! I shall now duck and take cover. -Ace-

Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a better sim. Todd Ace <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8e7j6f$9e5$[email hidden]... > The reasons have been discussed time and again. Every new sim is comparedto > GPL and fails. Even new sims that in future may use the GPL engine willnot > be as good. The physics can go to hell- it's about the cars that are being > simulated. The physics model merely gives the ability to get a good feelof > the car you're driving. You could come close with early 50s maybe, but no > other era of F1 produced quite the cars of the mid to late 60s: loads of > power, minimal grip, soft suspension (relatively) and tortous circuits. > Try as they may, no-one will ever better GPL for pure feel unless they do > the '67 (or maybe '68) season again (and let us have the McLaren-BRM aswell > as the other cars). > Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm mycommitment > to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPLappreciation

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> society!!! > > I shall now duck and take cover. > > -Ace- > >

Yeah, maybe by 2250. But what are the chances that this *better sim* will only really look its best with a Rendition V2200? Answer me that! (Oh, all right. Don't answer.) <g> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:35:12 GMT, "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a >better sim. > >Todd > > >Ace <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:8e7j6f$9e5$[email hidden]... >> The reasons have been discussed time and again. Every new sim is compared >to >> GPL and fails. Even new sims that in future may use the GPL engine will >not >> be as good. The physics can go to hell- it's about the cars that are being >> simulated. The physics model merely gives the ability to get a good feel >of >> the car you're driving. You could come close with early 50s maybe, but no >> other era of F1 produced quite the cars of the mid to late 60s: loads of >> power, minimal grip, soft suspension (relatively) and tortous circuits. >> Try as they may, no-one will ever better GPL for pure feel unless they do >> the '67 (or maybe '68) season again (and let us have the McLaren-BRM as >well >> as the other cars). >> Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm my >commitment >> to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPL >appreciation >> society!!! >> >> I shall now duck and take cover. >> >> -Ace- >> >> > >

Remove "hi" from address or it will bounce....

In article <8e7j6f$9e5$[email hidden]>, Ace <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The reasons have been discussed time and again. Every new sim is compared to >GPL and fails. Even new sims that in future may use the GPL engine will not >be as good. The physics can go to hell- it's about the cars that are being >simulated. The physics model merely gives the ability to get a good feel of >the car you're driving. You could come close with early 50s maybe, but no >other era of F1 produced quite the cars of the mid to late 60s: loads of >power, minimal grip, soft suspension (relatively) and tortous circuits. >Try as they may, no-one will ever better GPL for pure feel unless they do >the '67 (or maybe '68) season again (and let us have the McLaren-BRM as well >as the other cars). >Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm my commitment >to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPL appreciation >society!!!

True for F1. But if you you'll allow full bodies into the mix, then I would say a CanAm sim from '69 or '70 with GPL caliber physics would have a shot at beating GPL with your Criterea. -- | "Instead of letting the moon be the Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our [email hidden] | history." - Andrew Chaikin

> Nah. Nascar 4 hasn't got Lotus 49 and Eagle cars... Yes, but it will have a stereo in every race car playing banjo music (a la South Park). Yeee haaaa! Look Maw, arm raysin! Andrew McP... looking forward to VROC N4 racing if it has N3-style mirrors (which we can then steal and install in GPL!)

Hi there, Well yesterday I also set an new PB ( 8:16,42 at the Nuerburgring, yeeeeehaaaaaa ) and I'm also very pleased, but also without that I would agree 100 % to your Post. Those Cars from the sixties and early seventees really got me. These were the golden days of Formula 1, too bad that so many man paid such an high price for that great racing... Since Easter-Monday I'm reading the autobiography of Alfred Neubauer, the Mercedes Benz Race Director from the 1920 to 1955, ( bought at the gas-station at the "Doettinger Hoehe" at the 'Ring ) and Im thinking how great an GPL-like "Spirit of Speed 1937" would have been. Such a shame that this Micropose Sim is such a crap, and such a shame that there is no mass-market interest in historical Racing Sims. BTW, is the Can-Am Sim from Motorsims dead ? I did really look forward to an 60's Can Am Sim... Michael Staab -- Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ Mitglied in der CAR, Verein fr PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

>I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL. Nah. Nascar 4 hasn't got Lotus 49 and Eagle cars... Andre

I agree, for the most part, but I'd be e***d to see some improvements when computer speed improvements will allow: Pavement changes/cracks/potholes and oil on track Weather 3 pedal wheels with H shifters instead of sequential (allowing heel-toe double clutch etc) That would be exciting, but I agree with you, I have a hard time imagining that I will enjoy another sim as much as GPL. It's so f$$king good and fun! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

HAHA - Yes it is so true then the week after that comes out the Nascar Craftsman Truck Racing expansion pack! > > Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a > > better sim. > Sierra will probably still be milking money with their old game engine ;) > "NASCAR 250. Now includes realistic gear shift 3d knob, but you still can't > flip!". Be sure to buy a week after it's release the "NASCAR 250b Expansion > pack", giving you access to the second half of the Winston Cup tracks. This

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> way we can shelve another 40bucks of your pocket since we are so > greeeeeeeeeedy :) > <sfx : Dr. Evil laugh> > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"Speedy Fast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 26 Apr 2000 22:03:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Tony > StewartNo20) wrote: > > >>Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a > >>better sim. > >> > >>Todd > > > >I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL. > > > NASCAR cars are like boats.

?? You ever been in a NASCAR ride? Try taking a spin in one sometime, either as a passenger with a pro driver or driving yourself at a place like the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Either way the first corner out of the pit will change your opinion that these cars handle like boats. More like stick like glue. Everyone I know who has taken a ride said they honestly thought the car would never make that first corner without going into the wall, and yet the tires didn't even squeal. <remove 7of9 for e-mail replies> -- Bill Jones e-mail addresses: Computer Sciences Corp. (work) [email hidden] New London, Connecticut (play) [email hidden] (860) 701-1201 WWW: http://pages.cthome.net/billj

Yep, they axed Can-Am a while ago when the series folded last year. Michael Staab wrote:

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> > Hi there, > > >Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm my commitment > >to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPL appreciation > >society!!! > > Well yesterday I also set an new PB ( 8:16,42 at the Nuerburgring, > yeeeeehaaaaaa ) and I'm also very pleased, but also without that I would > agree 100 % to your Post. > Those Cars from the sixties and early seventees really got me. These were > the golden days of Formula 1, too bad that so many man paid such an high > price for that great racing... > > Since Easter-Monday I'm reading the autobiography of Alfred Neubauer, the > Mercedes Benz Race Director from the 1920 to 1955, ( bought at the > gas-station at the "Doettinger Hoehe" at the 'Ring ) and Im thinking how > great an GPL-like "Spirit of Speed 1937" would have been. Such a shame that > this Micropose Sim is such a crap, and such a shame that there is no > mass-market interest in historical Racing Sims. > > BTW, is the Can-Am Sim from Motorsims dead ? I did really look forward to an > 60's Can Am Sim... > > Cu @ VROC, > > Michael Staab > -- > Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ > Mitglied in der CAR, Verein f�r PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ > Staabi's Mountain Bike Classics http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/mtb/ > " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

Tony StewartNo20 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL. It won't have to try hard to beat any previous NASCAR games, thats for sure, but I reiterate: It's the cars that make GPL special, although I saw anoher post proposing 60's Indycars, sounds good.

ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RQKN4.81622$[email hidden]... > > Yep... Im sure in 2049 we will still say "Naw... it's not like GPL!" > "It sucks". "The tracks are crappy!". "There is no arms in the virtual > cockpit!". > > <vbg> All except ONE person, and I think we all know whom... (initial "D"?)

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:13:09 GMT Alan Orton <[email hidden]> wrote: % Yep, they axed Can-Am a while ago when the series folded last year. % Michael Staab wrote: <sniP> % > % > BTW, is the Can-Am Sim from Motorsims dead ? I did really look forward to an % > 60's Can Am Sim... % > As far as I know Motorsims is still developing their "Trans-Am" simulation. http://www.motorsims.com/standard/index.html When released it will be based on "current" cars but they plan to provide older cars and tracks after the intial release. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. [email hidden] http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:41:27 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It won't have to try hard to beat any previous NASCAR games, thats for sure, >but I reiterate: It's the cars that make GPL special, although I saw anoher >post proposing 60's Indycars, sounds good. Since I've seen you re-iterate this a few times, I just want to pipe in and say that the cars that don't make GPL special for me. I'll admit they're incredible for showing off the ability of the game engine, but I have no affinity for the cars or the era (it's not an age thing either. I'm not a kid, and my favorite flight sims are WW1 era). I'll live with NASCAR 4, but I really want these physics applied to a modern sports car sim. Modern cars will get ugly and out of shape, it's just that their limits are higher than the GPL cars. As far as a realistic "low traction" sim, I'd also love to have an updated SODA with the GPL engine. Do you suppose the GPL engine could even handle a SODA style sim? It's engine allowed huge elevation changes and a completely inconsistent track surface. Way ahead of it's time, unfortunately. I always feel like an outsider here, because I see the greatness of GPL, but I still prefer to play SODA or Viper. Tim

My friend did that to me once in his celica. He spent $10,000 (cdn) on suspension alone (cage, brakes and stuff included as they are considered suspension apparently) and he took me for a spin. I drove a hopped up miata at the time and was no stranger to making passengers pee their pants due to 'Rockford Files' U-turns, and full lock-to-lock power-slide corners and such..... Anyways, he took me out for a spin in his celica and we were bootin' down the street around 80 clams or so, and I notice his left signal go on. And he doesn't even lift off the gas, just holdin' it steady. Then we're at the corner, and he starts to turn in. I grab what's left of the interior of the car to brace myself 'cause my brain is telling me that a car cannot make a corner at that speed having turned in that late and not allowing any 'slideage' area. As far as I was concerned it was simply not possible, and I'm thinking "what the hell is he doing?" Next thing I know we're through the corner, the tires having not even squeaked. They were those super-duper mushy tires that just kinda make that scrubbing noise. It just tracked right through the corner. Wow, that was a car, it just stuck. scooter Bill Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8e9ilj$fjk$[email hidden]...

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> > "Speedy Fast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On 26 Apr 2000 22:03:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Tony > > StewartNo20) wrote: > > > > >>Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be

a

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> > >>better sim. > > >> > > >>Todd > > > > > >I actully think.........Nascar 4 can beat GPL. > > > > > > NASCAR cars are like boats. > > ?? You ever been in a NASCAR ride? Try taking a spin in one sometime, > either as a passenger with a pro driver or driving yourself at a place

like

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> the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Either way the first corner out of > the pit will change your opinion that these cars handle like boats. More > like stick like glue. Everyone I know who has taken a ride said they > honestly thought the car would never make that first corner without going > into the wall, and yet the tires didn't even squeal. > > > > <remove 7of9 for e-mail replies> > > -- > Bill Jones e-mail addresses: > Computer Sciences Corp. (work) [email hidden] > New London, Connecticut (play) [email hidden] > (860) 701-1201 WWW: http://pages.cthome.net/billj > > > > >

Before the end of this year there will be at least one better sim. ...when you look at the likes of World Circuit, and then F355 Challenge, can there be any question that we are simply at a point in time. I know it's hard not to get impatient, but... -- Mark Jeangerard - my money's on WSC but my prayers for GP3 Todd Sorensen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4qIN4.66568$[email hidden]... > Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a > better sim. > > Todd

Ace wrote:

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> > The reasons have been discussed time and again. Every new sim is compared to > GPL and fails. Even new sims that in future may use the GPL engine will not > be as good. The physics can go to hell- it's about the cars that are being > simulated. The physics model merely gives the ability to get a good feel of > the car you're driving. You could come close with early 50s maybe, but no > other era of F1 produced quite the cars of the mid to late 60s: loads of > power, minimal grip, soft suspension (relatively) and tortous circuits. > Try as they may, no-one will ever better GPL for pure feel unless they do > the '67 (or maybe '68) season again (and let us have the McLaren-BRM as well > as the other cars). > Yes, I am pleased cos I've set a new PB, and wish to reaffirm my commitment > to GPL after being on holiday- It's good to be back in the GPL appreciation > society!!! > > I shall now duck and take cover. > > -Ace-

One of the more positive trolling posts in a while, with trolling meant in the most positive sense of the word ;) . While I agree that the era they modelled with GPL is amazing, thinking that those cars are the only ones that provide such thrills is a bit limited. Rallying with Mini Coopers or doing the Mille Miglia or any other event including those old timers (250 GTO anyone?) goes the same way if not further in my book. -Gregor

Better?! Better is a tough term to qualify... I used to be a die hard Air Warrior 3 fan, and still do venture into that sim from time to time. Over the years this sim has developed a very strong community. This community is a programmers dream i'd think. AW3 is based on code that is at least 10 yrs old, and likely a dozen "better" sims have come along, tho only a few offering the massive multiplayer arenas. In my experience its been the community that has kept this sim going. I can't think of any other reasons.... There are several program updates a year, with all the usual complaints of "it messed up my connection" or "it was fine before!!", or "hey now i need to upgrade my sytem to play!" and even through all of this you can find up to 600-700 players online flying on a weekday evening.... The sim has been criticized many times over the years with regards to its modelling, its lackluster graphics and who knows how many other complaints... Yet it lives on... Its all in the people that play it, its the community that keeps a sim alive. Md Mark Jeangerard wrote:

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> > Before the end of this year there will be at least one better sim. > > ...when you look at the likes of World Circuit, and then F355 Challenge, can > there be any question that we are simply at a point in time. I know it's > hard not to get impatient, but... > > -- > Mark Jeangerard - my money's on WSC but my prayers for GP3 > > Todd Sorensen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4qIN4.66568$[email hidden]... > > Maybe, but forever is a long time. I 'm guessing by 2250 there will be a > > better sim. > > > > Todd

Tim O. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:41:27 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >It won't have to try hard to beat any previous NASCAR games, thats forsure, > >but I reiterate: It's the cars that make GPL special, although I sawanoher

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> >post proposing 60's Indycars, sounds good. > > Since I've seen you re-iterate this a few times, I just want to pipe > in and say that the cars that don't make GPL special for me. > > I'll admit they're incredible for showing off the ability of the game > engine, but I have no affinity for the cars or the era (it's not an > age thing either. I'm not a kid, and my favorite flight sims are WW1 > era). > > I'll live with NASCAR 4, but I really want these physics applied to a > modern sports car sim. Modern cars will get ugly and out of shape, > it's just that their limits are higher than the GPL cars. > > As far as a realistic "low traction" sim, I'd also love to have an > updated SODA with the GPL engine. > Do you suppose the GPL engine could even handle a SODA style sim? > It's engine allowed huge elevation changes and a completely > inconsistent track surface. Way ahead of it's time, unfortunately. > > I always feel like an outsider here, because I see the greatness of > GPL, but I still prefer to play SODA or Viper. > >

Horses for courses, I guess. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As a youngster, I never got to see these ancient cars first time round, so they have a special magic for me. I think you are spot on to demand a modern sim with the GPL engine, however, although ahead of it's time in 1998, it too is now out of date, only nobody has improved it. example: rolling resistance isn't modelled. It certainly should be, as with a few other things which all eat too much CPU power, so had to be excluded at the time. As to what it could handle, you'd have to ask Dave Kaemmer :-)

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> > FG will better the lot :) There won't be anything to > > stop it's might ! > > > > ;-) > > > > Phil > > Indeed. FG will blow away everything on the market! > > Matt

OK. I'll bite. <sarcastic tone on> What's FG? <sarcastic tone off> :) -Chris- Previous 1984 GPz 750 Previous 1989 ZX-10 Previous 1992 ZX-7 Previous 1998 ZX-9 Current 2000 CBR929RR Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

>I always feel like an outsider here, because I see the greatness of >GPL, but I still prefer to play SODA or Viper. I heartily agree, GPL is the most accurate physics model that I have seen, but I play and enjoy Viper far more, I just wish that there were more tracks. I also find off-road games to be more fun as well, but sim off roaders are few and far between.

I think that a Gran Tourismo clone for the PC, using GPL physics would be a huge success, and could even surpass GPL, given the diversity of cars ranging from stock street tired Honda Civics to 950 H.P. Race cars.

FG will better the lot :) There won't be anything to stop it's might ! ;-) Phil Loosay2 wrote:

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> > >I always feel like an outsider here, because I see the greatness of > >GPL, but I still prefer to play SODA or Viper. > > I heartily agree, GPL is the most accurate physics model that I have seen, but > I play and enjoy Viper far more, I just wish that there were more tracks. I > also find off-road games to be more fun as well, but sim off roaders are few > and far between.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:21:28 +0100, "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The reasons have been discussed time and again. Isn't it time for an sim based on the GPL engine. I would love to ride a normal car-real life sim. Something like the Sims on the road ;-) Ben

Phil Flack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > FG will better the lot :) There won't be anything to stop it's might ! > > ;-) > > Phil Indeed. FG will blow away everything on the market! Matt

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> > Loosay2 wrote: > > > > >I always feel like an outsider here, because I see the greatness of > > >GPL, but I still prefer to play SODA or Viper. > > > > I heartily agree, GPL is the most accurate physics model that I have

seen, but > > I play and enjoy Viper far more, I just wish that there were moretracks. I > > also find off-road games to be more fun as well, but sim off roaders arefew > > and far between.