Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Hey RASers, In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they put seven FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness and Ubisoft's Monaco Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specs mentioned). The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCAR Force GT, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-1.com to help them out. The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI CDS4000 Monza F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF wheels, they ranked: #4 Thrustmaster #3 Logitech #2 MSFF #1 Act Labs Force RS They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their website May 1st www.caranddriver.com ~daxe

Thanks for the info daxe! Well, OK, let's see now... The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000. The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400. They tested Midtown Madness. My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to). They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times. You know, they also rated the '99 Ferrari Formula One cars higher than the '99 Ford Mustang even though the Ferrari is not a true "Street Car" and has no CD player. ;) I think I'll take the Act Labs please. Andrew daxe wrote:

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> Hey RASers, > > In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they put seven > FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness and Ubisoft's Monaco > Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specs mentioned). > > The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCAR Force GT, > the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback > and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-1.com to > help them out. > > The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI CDS4000 Monza > F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the > best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF > wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF wheels, > they ranked: > > #4 Thrustmaster > #3 Logitech > #2 MSFF > #1 Act Labs Force RS > > They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their website May > 1st > > www.caranddriver.com > > ~daxe

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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>Thanks for the info daxe! > >Well, OK, let's see now... > >The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000. > >The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400. > >They tested Midtown Madness. > >My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna >spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to). > >They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case of it. The brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with this little separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds. And, as you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s here who do indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a few lucky (ie rich) souls who purchase Ferraris.

Settle down, Dave. 1) I'd bite my own if I could. 2) I don't work for the feds. 3) Yes, It was in a sidebar, but according to daxe, "In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet." Well, saying these thousand-dollar wheels are "better" than the hundred-dollar FF wheels is silly. Obviously they still picked a favorite "low-budget" wheel. 4) I didn't mean to offend hardcore simmers. I didn't know hardcore simmers played Midtown Madness. 5) I'd love a thousand dollar wheel. Don't get me wrong. I guess they are for the simmers that don't need a $1300 system upgrade or purchase in combo with a $200 wheel setup, or for the simmers for whom a $200-$500 wheel just won't cut it. My mistake. 6) You don't have to be lucky to be rich, unless you meant e.g. instead of i.e. 7) Seriously, no offense intended, I didn't mean to insult your tender disposition. Regards, Andrew [email hidden] wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote: > >Thanks for the info daxe! > > > >Well, OK, let's see now... > > > >The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000. > > > >The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400. > > > >They tested Midtown Madness. > > > >My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna > >spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to). > > > >They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times. > > Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case of it. The > brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with this little > separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds. And, as > you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s here who do > indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a few lucky (ie rich) > souls who purchase Ferraris.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:16:33 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >Keep in mind that there are still some people who feel that FF is just >a gimmick. Which might explain why we're not seeing any second- >generation FF wheels emerge, while there are plenty of new non-FF >models emerging on a regular basis. > >-- JB I think this is solely because a non-FF wheel is cheap to develop. FF wheels will not be changed as often because they need longer to recoup the development costs before re-investing. I paid under $100 for my Logitech a few months after it came out. At that price, you have to expect them to have a longer product cycle. I've never had the chance to try a high end wheel like an ECCI, but I can tell you that if I have $1700, I'd buy a beat up CJ-7 and have some real-life driving fun (which I did). As far as C&D's comments go... I like reading Car & Driver because the writers are funny, but when they say a $48,000 BMW is a great value, I realize that I'm dealing with people who haven't shelled out cash for transportation in a long time. Tim

FYI, they reviewed non-FF wheels LAST year -- and that's when they selected the TSW over their number-two pick, ECCI (which also tied with the CH Products wheel for second). Keep in mind that there are still some people who feel that FF is just a gimmick. Which might explain why we're not seeing any second- generation FF wheels emerge, while there are plenty of new non-FF models emerging on a regular basis. -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> Thanks for the info daxe! > > Well, OK, let's see now... > > The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000. > > The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400. > > They tested Midtown Madness. > > My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm

not gonna > spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to). > > They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times. > > You know, they also rated the '99 Ferrari Formula One cars higherthan the '99 > Ford Mustang even though the Ferrari is not a true "Street Car" andhas no CD

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> player. ;) > > I think I'll take the Act Labs please. > > Andrew > > daxe wrote: > > > Hey RASers, > > > > In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they

put seven > > FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness andUbisoft's Monaco > > Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specsmentioned). > > > > The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCARForce GT, > > the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback > > and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-1.com to > > help them out. > > > > The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCICDS4000 Monza > > F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCIwas the > > best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any ofthe FF > > wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FFwheels,

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> > they ranked: > > > > #4 Thrustmaster > > #3 Logitech > > #2 MSFF > > #1 Act Labs Force RS > > > > They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their

website May

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> > 1st > > > > www.caranddriver.com > > > > ~daxe > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Andrew, On the subject of non-FF wheels, keep in mind that there are some VERY nice non-FF wheels in the budget end of the spectrum, as well. I've been using a Thrustmaster Super Sport for over a month in preparation for a review, and even though I own 2 TSW wheels (a basic and a TSW2), I'm finding the TM Super Sport to be a VERY decent wheel (even if it is a "Bustmaster" product! <G>). Once you get them to stop moving, the TM pedals are some of the best I've ever used (INCLUDING the TSW pedals), and the wheel itself works very nicely -- not bad for $25, eh? ;-) -- JB In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote:

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> Settle down, Dave. > > 1) I'd bite my own if I could. > > 2) I don't work for the feds. > > 3) Yes, It was in a sidebar, but according to daxe, > > "In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the > best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the

FF > wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet." > > Well, saying these thousand-dollar wheels are "better" than thehundred-dollar FF > wheels is silly. Obviously they still picked a favorite "low-budget"wheel. > > 4) I didn't mean to offend hardcore simmers. I didn't know hardcoresimmers played > Midtown Madness. > > 5) I'd love a thousand dollar wheel. Don't get me wrong. I guess theyare for the > simmers that don't need a $1300 system upgrade or purchase in combowith a $200 > wheel setup, or for the simmers for whom a $200-$500 wheel just won'tcut it. My > mistake. > > 6) You don't have to be lucky to be rich, unless you meant e.g.instead of i.e. > > 7) Seriously, no offense intended, I didn't mean to insult yourtender disposition.

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> > Regards, > Andrew > > [email hidden] wrote: > > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

wrote:

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> > >Thanks for the info daxe! > > > > > >Well, OK, let's see now... > > > > > >The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000. > > > > > >The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400. > > > > > >They tested Midtown Madness. > > > > > >My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize

I'm not gonna > > >spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to). > > > > > >They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times. > > > > Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case ofit. The > > brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with thislittle > > separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds.And, as > > you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s herewho do > > indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a fewlucky (ie rich) > > souls who purchase Ferraris. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:20:27 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >Once you get them to stop moving, the TM >pedals are some of the best I've ever used (INCLUDING the TSW pedals), >and the wheel itself works very nicely -- not bad for $25, eh? I have tile floors in my home and this was a considerable issue with my TM Nascar Pro. The solution turned out to be quite simple. In the section of your local Kmart, Walmart, or Target store where they sell kitchen stuff and/or shelf paper, there's some rubbery, molded waffle-weave stuff that's sold in rolls for lining kitchen shelves. This stuff is wonderfully non-skid and *cheap*. I've cut a square and put it under the cat's bowls so she doesn't chase them all over the kitchen while eating. I've cut lengths of it to put under throw rugs so you don't end up surfing half-way across the living room on them. The best use is to cut a rectangle and put it under the pedals of your TM wheel's pedal unit. It *won't* move around under you anymore! This stuff's terrific... Regards, Brett C. Cammack That's Racing! Motorsports Pompano Beach, FL

You're right, Brett! I use the same stuff, even though I've got carpet, and it works great. Cheap, too. Kurt Brett C. Cammack wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>I have tile floors in my home and this was a considerable issue with >my TM Nascar Pro. The solution turned out to be quite simple. In the >section of your local Kmart, Walmart, or Target store where they sell >kitchen stuff and/or shelf paper, there's some rubbery, molded >waffle-weave stuff that's sold in rolls for lining kitchen shelves. >This stuff is wonderfully non-skid and *cheap*. I've cut a square and >put it under the cat's bowls so she doesn't chase them all over the >kitchen while eating. I've cut lengths of it to put under throw rugs >so you don't end up surfing half-way across the living room on them. >The best use is to cut a rectangle and put it under the pedals of your >TM wheel's pedal unit. It *won't* move around under you anymore! >This stuff's terrific... > >Regards, >Brett C. Cammack >That's Racing! Motorsports >Pompano Beach, FL

If they test Midtown madness, they are not mature enough. Sorry, couldn't resist but mean it. Jens <snip>>> >> The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI CDS4000 Monza >> F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the >> best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF >> wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF wheels, >> they ranked:<snip> --------------------------------------------- [email hidden] Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ Racing simulation, esp. GPL Logitech Wingman FF optimization Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor Radio controlled airplanes