Re: Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. They seem to have tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at incredible speeds like they are on rails. How unlike GPL. Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. Personally, I think the physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy decided to deep six them. Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. I might have even bought the game :) 2_Slow

I seem to crash more in N3. So I guess GPL is more realistic, since I rarely crash my "real" car. >>>>>>>>>>> There you have it.

Only thing thats fun about n3 i like is racing side by side noes to tail. AI are much better then N2=no whimps that slow down when you get 5 feet withn them. But GPL they DO NOT give up at all when your side by side. No to mention GPL AI have there own personalitys (Surtees). N3 feels like your on railroad tracks. N3 car glued to ground GPL car can get som AIR But GPL vs N3 is unfair. So very unfair. Maybe we could say N4 vs WSC or N4 vs GPL or GP3. I would GPL say GPL would win against N3. =)

"Tony StewartNo20" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well WereTalking about 2 different era 1960s and 1990s Not to mention, 33 years difference in tire technology.

"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Feel less accurate"? Compared to GPL there's no "feel" inN3....period. > This isn't a statement made to glorify the wonders of GPL, just asimple > subjective, personal, view. Compared to GPL the Nascar vehicle feelsas if > it is on rails and held to the track by magnetism....like a slot car. > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses in Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do not drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like GPL. 2_Slow

[email hidden] (Loosay2) wrote: >I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. >Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I was wondering >in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. I'll help you answer this question for yourself. Get the NASCAR 3 demo, [1] which includes Texas and Loudon. Get Dave Noonan's oval2gpl converter [2]. Drive Texas in N3. Find some GPL oval setups [3] (optional). Drive Texas in GPL. I can do and feel things in GPL that I can't in N3: throw the car into a corner, jump back and forth between understeer and (controlled) oversteer by pumping the throttle; feel the weight transfer forward to back, left to right. (GPL should have included a nice, big oval like Texas for practicing car control.) I find turning laps in GPL almost meditative. N3--not so much. N3 is about racing (not that GPL isn't): a 200 MPH traffic jam, as the NASCAR Heat promos say. The demo of Dave Noonan's GPL converter [4] is supposed to convert Loudon from NASCAR 2. I can't convert the N3 version (although I can convert Homestead and Watkins Glen). I got N3 for $20 after rebate. In a month or two you should be able to get the boxed set (N3, NL, truck expansion) for $40 or less. If nothing else, you may want to get them (and the converter) for the tracks: Watkins Glen, Sears Point, Riverside. --Jon _____ 1. <http://www.papy.com/new_n3/n3_screenshots.html> or <http://www.gamesdomain.com/demos/demo/n3demo.html>. 2. <http://www.theuspits.com/owheel/gpl/files/oval2gpl.zip>. 3. There's a link to <http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/files/setups/cm_eag_oval_setups.zip> in the news section of Alison Hine's site: <http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/>. 4. <http://www.sim-garage.co.uk/>.

Don't buy NASCAR 3 for the sake of driving the cars, it just isn't that engrossing, challenging, or scary like GPL is. Do buy NASCAR 3 if the idea of door to door, nose to nose racing lap after lap appeals to you. Long NASCAR 3 races also employ a lot more strategy than the typical GPL race. The fastest car rarely wins the race; the driver with the best combination of speed, tire/fuel management, patience and luck usually comes out on top. "Loosay2" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I waswondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" bycomparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhapsinfluence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing?

Well WereTalking about 2 different era 1960s and 1990s

"Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fRIH4.727$%[email hidden]... > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they wouldnot > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flopif they > are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics"does > not equal "Tough to drive" > But they can count on all 125 people who bought GPL to run out and buy it. 2_Slow

I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I was wondering in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" by comparison, or does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhaps influence some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ?

so modern racing is easy? ;o) > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > I lose the back end all the time on that track > It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today are > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in the GPL > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going to > feel different. > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would not > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop if they

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> are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" does > not equal "Tough to drive" > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses

in > > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do not

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> > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > > > GPL. > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word > > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup > > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose it > > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as usual > > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > > brakes > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit of > > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you > > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* like > > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Thats not what I mean :) Just.. easier :)

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> so modern racing is easy? ;o) > > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > > I lose the back end all the time on that track > > It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today

are

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> > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in the > GPL > > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going > to > > feel different. > > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would

not > > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop if > they > > are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" does

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> > not equal "Tough to drive" > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses > in > > > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do > not > > > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > > > > GPL. > > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word > > > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > > > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > > > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup > > > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose

it > > > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as usual

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> > > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > > > brakes > > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > > > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > > > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > > > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit

of > > > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you > > > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > > > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* like

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> > > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

That is not a fair question. We have been saying in thousands of posts that NOTHING so far has equaled GPL. Sure some are very good racers, some are very pretty, some do the multiplayer and some don't. But. If you are trying to compare driving 'feel' then you will be dissapointed. N3's biggest sucess is it's beta multiplayer component. In N3 you are racing in close quarters(especially on the short tracks) So to answer your question. N3 in no way compare's to GPL for driving feel. However there are hundreds of racers online everynight banging doors and crying foul etc. It 'races' pretty good, but the moment you jump in, you will know, it ain't GPL: and so far: nothing else is either. dave henrie Loosay2 wrote:

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> > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I was wondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" by comparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhaps influence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ?

I seem to crash more in N3. So I guess GPL is more realistic, since I rarely crash my "real" car. Loosay2 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I waswondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" bycomparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhapsinfluence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ?

2_Slow wrote: > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses in > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do not > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > GPL. I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose it on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as usual anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the brakes That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit of N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* like running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) I lose the back end all the time on that track It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today are no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in the GPL days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going to feel different. If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would not be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop if they are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" does not equal "Tough to drive" Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> 2_Slow wrote: > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses in > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do not > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > > GPL. > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose it > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as usual > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > brakes > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit of > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* like > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Cliff Roman wrote: > > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > > I lose the back end all the time on that track Then your setup sucks :-)

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> It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today are > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in the GPL > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going to > feel different. > > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would not > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop if they > are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" does > not equal "Tough to drive"

I agree, I don't expect the cars in N4 to handle like 67 F1 cars, that would be silly, but since they have about the same level driving aids, that is none, I expect locking wheels under braking and a rear end that will step out on me if I floor the throttle coming out of the final hairpin at Sears These are the things I hope we will get in N4, and a car that pushes waay wide if you miss your braking points and that will do some serious stuff if you drive it over the grass in the loop at the Glen I'm not saying that the old physics engine is bad, it's just very dated, and I expect more these days than I did when I fired up N2 and loaded the first TPTCC track, then I thought this was pretty awesome Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Thats not what I mean :) Just.. easier :) Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2xJH4.8280$[email hidden]...

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> so modern racing is easy? ;o) > > > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fRIH4.727$%[email hidden]... > > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > > > > I lose the back end all the time on that track > > > > It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today

are

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> > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in the > GPL > > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going > to > > feel different. > > > > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would

not > > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop if > they > > are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics"does

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> > not equal "Tough to drive" > > > > > > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > 2_Slow wrote: > > > > > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses > in > > > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do > not > > > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > > > > GPL. > > > > > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word > > > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > > > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > > > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup > > > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose

it > > > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn asusual

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> > > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > > > brakes > > > > > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > > > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > > > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > > > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit

of > > > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you > > > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > > > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is*like

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> > > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com > > > > > >

so modern racing is easy? ;o) "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fRIH4.727$%[email hidden]... > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > > I lose the back end all the time on that track > > It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today are > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in theGPL > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are goingto > feel different. > > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would not > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flop ifthey

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> are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" does > not equal "Tough to drive" > > > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > 2_Slow wrote: > > > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses

in > > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they donot

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> > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > > > GPL. > > > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a better word > > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decent setup > > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can't loose it > > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as usual > > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > > brakes > > > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing* bit of > > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive that you > > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* like > > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com > >

Duhh!!! Driving the road tracks with N3 is the most disappointing thing of it! Driving the ovals is 'ok', but going to one of the road tracks while before having raced GPL is absolutely disappointing... -Thorsten Rueter 2_Slow <[email hidden]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 8cnjfe$7ug$[email hidden]...

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> > "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Feel less accurate"? Compared to GPL there's no "feel" in > N3....period. > > This isn't a statement made to glorify the wonders of GPL, just a > simple > > subjective, personal, view. Compared to GPL the Nascar vehicle feels > as if > > it is on rails and held to the track by magnetism....like a slot car. > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road courses in > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you they do not > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice, like > GPL. > > 2_Slow > >

ahhh! now i see :o) "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ldKH4.730$%[email hidden]...

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> Thats not what I mean :) > > Just.. easier :) > > > Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2xJH4.8280$[email hidden]... > > so modern racing is easy? ;o) > > > > > > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:fRIH4.727$%[email hidden]... > > > You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) > > > > > > I lose the back end all the time on that track > > > > > > It is really impossible to compare the two games. Stock Cars of today > are > > > no where as hard to drive for a real driver as the cars were back in

the > > GPL > > > days. The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they aregoing > > to > > > feel different. > > > > > > If they use the GPL physics in N4, I would hope to god that they would > not > > > be as hard to drive as the GPL cars are. For one the game will flopif

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> > they > > > are, second is that it would be totally unrealistic. "Good Physics" > does > > > not equal "Tough to drive" > > > > > > > > > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > 2_Slow wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You have obviously never raced either of the the two road

courses > > in > > > > > Nascar 3. As one who is often in the grass, I can assure you theydo > > not > > > > > drive like slot cars. Neither do they skate about as if on ice,like > > > > > GPL. > > > > > > > > I must say I disagree, there's no finesse (couldn't find a betterword > > > > for it) required to go fast in N3, it's more "arcade like" (again, > > > > couldn't find a better word), once you get your braking and turn in > > > > points sorted, you're home free, assuming you have a half decentsetup > > > > that is, you can't loose the rear end during turn in, you can'tloose

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> it > > > > on the exit, and of you *do* miss your braking point, just turn as > usual > > > > anyway as the car *will* turn anyway, even if you're standing on the > > > > brakes > > > > > > > > That's not to say I haven't enjoyed racing road courses in N2/99/3/L > > > > with the ICR2 courses and all, but not modeling locking wheels and > > > > wheelspin is a great omission and makes for a very unenjoyable > > > > experience in itself, having said that, I've enjoyed the *racing*

bit > of > > > > N2/99/3/L a whole lot, maybe *because* it's so easy to drive thatyou

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> > > > can focus more on what's going on around you, which is a plus when > > > > you're in a crowd, but running a road course in N3 on your own *is* > like > > > > running a slot car compared to GPL, and a few others too > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > > > > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

It just feels flat. The car doesnt seem to roll, lean, pitch, nothing. Just flat. -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA" Loosay2 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I was wondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" by comparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhaps influence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ?

You must have *plonked* me Eldred, I posted my setup a few hours ago. <G> "EldredP" wrote > Uh, Tracey? You listening? <g>

"Goy Larsen" wrote > Not mine to give away or I would have, but ask Tracey Miller if youcan > have his Glen setup for N2, I did my fastest lap ever with thatsetup, > never tried to race it in a longer race though so I can't tell youabout > the tire wear, he posted it to the TEN NG at some point, felt very > twitchy until you got used to it, but if you just let it ride, itwould > sort itself out most of the time, with a little work to suit your > personal style, you'd have a setup that would serve you well You're welcome to try my setup Eldred, but I can tell you it isn't as effective in N3 as it was in N2. I could do mid 125's in N2 (damn Goy and his 126's!! :-) In N3 I've yet to break 123. :-( Anyway, here it is: NASCAR 3 Setup Sheet Watkins Glen International Setup Name: 70 LF LR RR RF Tire Pressure 49psi 50psi 47psi 46psi Tire Camber -2.50 -2.20 Shocks 90% 70% 89% 99% 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Gear Ratio 7.50 6.00 5.00 4.10 Steering Lock 8 degrees Rear Spoiler 68 degrees Weight Jack Rear 1755 lbs 50.1% Left 1600 lbs 45.7% Cross 0 lbs 50.0% Grille Tape: 50% Sway Bars F: 1 1/4 R: 1 inch Comments: If you figure out how to get those missing 2-3 mph back let me know.

LOL, an incredibly good take off of those who put down GPL without knowing a thing about the cars involved! Cheers, Richard On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:10:25 -0500, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message <8colab$1r9$[email hidden]> :

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> The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have >watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. They seem to have >tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very >stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at >incredible speeds like they are on rails. > > How unlike GPL. > > Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires >back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. Personally, I think the >physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much >in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. > > I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy >decided to deep six them. Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy >not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. > > I might have even bought the game :) > > 2_Slow >

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I agree, I don't expect the cars in N4 to handle like 67 F1 cars, that >would be silly, but since they have about the same level driving aids, >that is none, I expect locking wheels under braking and a rear end that >will step out on me if I floor the throttle coming out of the final >hairpin at Sears > >These are the things I hope we will get in N4, and a car that pushes >waay wide if you miss your braking points and that will do some serious >stuff if you drive it over the grass in the loop at the Glen

Your car doesn't get out of control in these situations??? Man, I want YOUR setups... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes: >"Feel less accurate"? Compared to GPL there's no "feel" in N3....period. >This isn't a statement made to glorify the wonders of GPL, just a simple >subjective, personal, view. Compared to GPL the Nascar vehicle feels as if >it is on rails and held to the track by magnetism....like a slot car. Like a slot car? Then you're not going FAST enough, Bruce. :-) Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Feel less accurate"? Compared to GPL there's no "feel" in N3....period. This isn't a statement made to glorify the wonders of GPL, just a simple subjective, personal, view. Compared to GPL the Nascar vehicle feels as if it is on rails and held to the track by magnetism....like a slot car. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Loosay2 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I was wondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" by comparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhaps influence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ?

Judging from some old in-car racing footage they did:) Jari Jokinen 2_Slow wrote in message <8colab$1r9$[email hidden]>... >physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much >in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. >

Mmmm...maybe so, but we are also talking about two different physics "engines", which was really the point of my statement. Of course, disgregard this if your comment, which contained bugger-all reference to a previous post, was not aimed at me. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Tony StewartNo20 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well WereTalking about 2 different era 1960s and 1990s

Thirty-three years difference in tyre technology means stuff-all when it comes to two different game engines. Modern racing covers aren't THAT brilliant! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- 2_Slow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8cnqp1$cha$[email hidden]... > > "Tony StewartNo20" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well WereTalking about 2 different era 1960s and 1990s > > Not to mention, 33 years difference in tire technology. > >

EldredP wrote: > > Your car doesn't get out of control in these situations??? Man, I want YOUR > setups... :-) Not mine to give away or I would have, but ask Tracey Miller if you can have his Glen setup for N2, I did my fastest lap ever with that setup, never tried to race it in a longer race though so I can't tell you about the tire wear, he posted it to the TEN NG at some point, felt very twitchy until you got used to it, but if you just let it ride, it would sort itself out most of the time, with a little work to suit your personal style, you'd have a setup that would serve you well Yes, the car will momentarily feel as it's about to show where you've just been, but usually in the loop at the Glen you can just do a confidence lift on the throttle if you're worried, and be on your way without loosing much time at all In N2 we were doing 120+ in the loop, using major parts of the grass and a line that had nothing to with real life racing, you could even graze the wall and with a bit of luck still make it, of course, if you got it wrong, you were history.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Wings. Schmacher's Ferrari has them today. Bandini's did not in '67. A modern CART car could drive upside down in a tunnel at 100mph, it generates enough downforce to stick. I'd imagine the F1 cars aren't too far off of that. The era simmed in GPL had no downforce, skinnier tires that aren't nearly as advanced as today's, and quite a bit of horsepower - seems like they should drive about how they do. I'm not positive it's 100% accurate, but those cars should be a handful like they are in GPL. You also know the main reason the suspensions are as stiff as they are on modern open-wheel cars is due to the wings and the downforce, don't you? -- Ken's Sig 3.01 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! 2_Slow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8colab$1r9$[email hidden]... > The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have > watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. They seem to have > tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very > stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at > incredible speeds like they are on rails. > > How unlike GPL. > > Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires > back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. Personally, I think the > physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. > > I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy > decided to deep six them. Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy > not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. > > I might have even bought the game :) > > 2_Slow > >

"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8csv6c$7vj$[email hidden]... > > Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidence ratherthan > pumping out opinionated garbage. > > MS I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less body roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by the physics engine in GPL. Either: A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. 2_Slow

LMAO I just had to reply to this one! I can just see the old '67 Galaxy cranking off laps at Monaco. LOL Comparing your passenger cars to F1 cars is just too much! I really like the "better tire grip" quote. I don't think your Impala had quite the Horsepower to weight ratio that the F1 car has. This is like saying my Toyota Tercel is a "superior" vehicle to a World of Outlaws sprint car because It doesn't flex as much when I stomp on the gas, and by gosh I have so much more traction, i've never smoked the tires on the ol' Toyota! Yup the name 2_Slow fits alright. LOL In article <8ct7bm$mj8$[email hidden]>, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8csv6c$7vj$[email hidden]... > > > > Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidencerather > than > > pumping out opinionated garbage. > > > > MS > > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy.I > also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had lessbody > roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayedby

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> the physics engine in GPL. > > Either: > > A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to > Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. > > B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. > > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny > shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers > for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL > seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. > > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited

for > hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. > > 2_Slow > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RhgI4.9377$[email hidden]... > Oh and BTW, where were the bugs in the GPL demo ? It worked flawleslyfor > me. > Nod. Whenever I escaped from a race back to the menus, my machine would lock up tight on me. Only way to get out of it was power off and back on. I grew weary of watching scandisc run on a 40 gb hard drive. I deep sixed the bug infested bugger. I won't even get into the graphic anomalies or the granny shifting in the demo. 2_Slow

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> >> Your car doesn't get out of control in these situations??? Man, I want >YOUR >> setups... > >:-) > >Not mine to give away or I would have, but ask Tracey Miller if you can >have his Glen setup for N2, I did my fastest lap ever with that setup, >never tried to race it in a longer race though so I can't tell you about >the tire wear, he posted it to the TEN NG at some point, felt very >twitchy until you got used to it, but if you just let it ride, it would >sort itself out most of the time, with a little work to suit your >personal style, you'd have a setup that would serve you well

Uh, Tracey? You listening? <g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Cars in N3 do not have as much feel as GPL, but not having driven a GPL era F1 car nor a modern Nascar car, I can't tell you which is more accurate. I love GPL for hotlaps and the occasional Spa race, but N3 is my favorite off-line race game. DTR is my favorite online racer tho. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Loosay2) wrote: > I have played GPL extensively, but I have yet to buy Nascar 3. > Other than the theoretical differences in the physics models, I waswondering > in what ways does Nascar 3 "feel" less accurate than GPL. > Do the cars drive in a way that seems the least bit "arcadish" bycomparison, > or > does knowing that it uses a less substantial physics model ,perhapsinfluence > some peoples perceptions of its accuracy in simulating Nascar racing ? > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote > Not mine to give away Slow arse ;-) Fast road course drivers on the Papyrus old engine simply use road course techniques and apply them with the help of some holes in the physic flaws. Goy, me, Jure and all other known Nascar road course drivers could really take that chicane at incredible speed. You just need to know the correct racing technique, and know the imperfection of the game engine. Exploit both, and you can do fast laps. It was still an incredible pleasure to do high 126's on the NROS (until somebody like Fastkev got us all with a 127!!!!). It'll be quite more difficult in N4 Goy eh? ;-D I really want to go two wide with you in the esses at the N4 SPoint! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

ymenard wrote:

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> > > Goy, me, Jure and all other known Nascar road course drivers could really > take that chicane at incredible speed. You just need to know the correct > racing technique, and know the imperfection of the game engine. Exploit > both, and you can do fast laps. It was still an incredible pleasure to do > high 126's on the NROS (until somebody like Fastkev got us all with a > 127!!!!). > > It'll be quite more difficult in N4 Goy eh? ;-D I really want to go two > wide with you in the esses at the N4 SPoint! > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>

Hey Goy! H-h-how Come Francois didn't mention me when he was talking about fast N2 shoes??? dave henrie

2_Slow wrote: > > Personally, I think the > physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. > These are almost exactly the kind of words I used in the thread 'Is GPL Arcade?' ! For those of you who didn't get it at that point (obviously there are some!), that was an IRONY. It was targeted towards the people with no knowledge of race car dynamics who buy an old BMW 3 series, lower the front, stiffen the suspension all around to the point of rigidity, spray some signal color over the body and then they have a racecar that makes you see a doctor for spine problems every once in a while, not to mention the fact that the chassis shudders just at the thought of entering only but the smoothest of corners at more than 20kph. Just to make it official what my opinion really is, no irony here. Any racecar that does not rely on aerodynamic grip (like the GPL cars) and encounters less than perfectly smooth surfaces needs a softer suspension which does not throw the whole car around on each bump but just the respective wheel. The suspension stiffnes is for such cars a copromise between response (harder suspension) and grip (softer suspension). -Gregor

You can't be serious, do you know anything about different racing formula's ? Modern F1 uses wings, quite large wings to create a large amount of downforce, they use very stiff suspension (most of the movement is in the tyres) and they use sticky tyres which are developed at massive cost to keep the cars pointed in the right direction. 1967 F1 cars had no downforce, soft suspension (compared to modern F1) and skinny tyres with hardly any grip from the hard rubber which would last a few races. No wonder they handle so differently !!! May I suggest that you actually watch some footage from a 1960's F1 race, you will see that the cars do indeed slide around a lot, sort of like they do in GPL. Oh and BTW, where were the bugs in the GPL demo ? It worked flawlesly for me. As for the difference between N3 and GPL, its like night and day, GPL responds in a way you would expect a real F1 car ( of 1967) to react to your inputs, NASCAR 3 just doesn't, you can't lock the brakes and the wheelspin is on or off (and only at the start) -- Ian Parker == 2_Slow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8colab$1r9$[email hidden]... > The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have > watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. They seem to have > tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very > stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at > incredible speeds like they are on rails. > > How unlike GPL. > > Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires > back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. Personally, I think the > physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. > > I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy > decided to deep six them. Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy > not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. > > I might have even bought the game :) > > 2_Slow > >

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > ymenard wrote: > > > > > > Goy, me, Jure and all other known Nascar road course drivers could really > > take that chicane at incredible speed. You just need to know the correct > > racing technique, and know the imperfection of the game engine. Exploit > > both, and you can do fast laps. It was still an incredible pleasure to do > > high 126's on the NROS (until somebody like Fastkev got us all with a > > 127!!!!). > > > > It'll be quite more difficult in N4 Goy eh? ;-D I really want to go two > > wide with you in the esses at the N4 SPoint! > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > Hey Goy! H-h-how Come Francois didn't mention me when he was talking > about fast N2 shoes??? > dave henrie

Maybe he has seen your TPTCC replays ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Tracey A Miller wrote: > > You're welcome to try my setup Eldred, but I can tell you it isn't as > effective in N3 as it was in N2. I could do mid 125's in N2 (damn Goy > and his 126's!! :-) In N3 I've yet to break 123. :-( > > If you figure out how to get those missing 2-3 mph back let me know. The inner loop is much tougher now Tracey, I haven't spend any real time working on a setup yet as the only races I run these days are fixed setup with some friends (WON sucks btw, I don't care what George says :-), as soon as things calm down a little bit I will see if I can dig up something, but with N4 on the not too distant horizon, it's hard to work up some enthusiasm for something that's basically a N2 makeover, but they *did* do something with the inner loop at least, so something came out of it, Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

ymenard wrote: > > Slow arse ;-) Yup, compared to a few of my teammates, I'm slow, the guy who did the team setup for Glen is something else on the road courses, he never did much hotlapping, yet he did 127's at some point, but he could run 125's and 126's all day long and never put a wheel wrong...that's more impressive to me than doing 127's in testing He also did our Sears and Bull Run setups....:-)

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> Fast road course drivers on the Papyrus old engine simply use road course > techniques and apply them with the help of some holes in the physic flaws. > Goy, me, Jure and all other known Nascar road course drivers could really > take that chicane at incredible speed. You just need to know the correct > racing technique, and know the imperfection of the game engine. Exploit > both, and you can do fast laps. It was still an incredible pleasure to do > high 126's on the NROS (until somebody like Fastkev got us all with a > 127!!!!).

Did Fasrkev really do a 127 ? Not bad, but it doesn't surprise me, I did a bit of guest driving in his Oscar division, that was not pretty :-) And yes, the way you could run the inner loop in N2 was not good and made for some serious warps online, maybe the prediction code didn't expect us to run those lines through there ? :-) > It'll be quite more difficult in N4 Goy eh? ;-D I really want to go two > wide with you in the esses at the N4 SPoint! I so look forward to N4 and hope it will sort out the hotlappers from the racers and that you will have to use both the brake and gas pedal as they were meant to be used, with a bit of feeling instead of just stomping on them Having said that, I did a bit of practicing at Sears with a teammate that lives in the UK, and with a good host (we both have ISDN) you can race very close in N3 and do a bit of bumping in a way that would have sent you into the scenery in N2 on TEN, too bad we don't have a TEN like system to race on, as I've said before, the racing can be very good in N3 even if the driving model sucks Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Goy Larsen" wrote

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> The inner loop is much tougher now Tracey, I haven't spend any real time > working on a setup yet as the only races I run these days are fixed > setup with some friends (WON sucks btw, I don't care what George says > :-), as soon as things calm down a little bit I will see if I can dig up > something, but with N4 on the not too distant horizon, it's hard to work > up some enthusiasm for something that's basically a N2 makeover, but > they *did* do something with the inner loop at least, so something came > out of it,

I lost a lot time from N2 in the inner loop, and also in the final turn. I can't seem to carry as much speed through there so my speed down the first straight suffers and drags down my overall time probably as much as the inner loop. Have you had the chance to try the converted N3 tracks in GPL yet Goy? I think running the tracks in GPL is probably better practice for N4 than N3 is, and certainly much more fun.

Tracey Miller wrote: > > I lost a lot time from N2 in the inner loop, and also in the final turn. I > can't seem to carry as much speed through there so my speed down the first > straight suffers and drags down my overall time probably as much as the > inner loop. Sounds about right, I need to reinstall my PC before I can run N3, I get a "blue screen" every time I fire it up, and this is not something I'm looking forward to, too much damn stuff installed that I need to carry over, will take me days :-) > Have you had the chance to try the converted N3 tracks in GPL yet Goy? I > think running the tracks in GPL is probably better practice for N4 than N3 > is, and certainly much more fun. Argh, no, real life issues are getting in the way of my sim racing these days, just can't seem to find the time anymore, probably backlogged from all the time I spent on TEN and in the TPTCC over the past couple of years :-))) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8colab$1r9$[email hidden]...

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> The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have > watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. They seem to have > tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very > stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at > incredible speeds like they are on rails. > > How unlike GPL.

If you are talking about modern day F1 cars, it might have something to do 33 years development. 67 cars did not have massive grooved Tyres, barn door wings and other aerodynamic appendages that require a stable platform to work efficiently. They were not built of composite materials or had pushrod / pullrod inboard suspension systems that have less movement than the total amount of tyre deflection. > > Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires > back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. Tyres back then were HARD, treaded and lasted several races. They were little more than road tyres. > Personally, I think the > physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > in the corner. How many 67 cars have you seen perform in the flesh? >Nor are supensions that soft. Really. OK professor. My eyes must have been very poor in all the years that I've been watching these things perform in the flesh. > > I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy > decided to deep six them. Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy > not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidence rather than pumping out opinionated garbage. MS

> > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I > also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. And of course you tested all these cars doing 180 mph through the Masta Kink <G> >All three of these cars had less body > roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by > the physics engine in GPL. Hmm. Hardly a comparison. I'd expect to see a car weighing in at several times the weight of a single seater to have beefier suspension. I Somehow doubt that the body roll thing at comparable racing speeds. As far as tyre grip goes maybe a ton or more dead weight pressing on the contact patches had something to do with grip, if your grip theory holds water. > > Either: > > A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to > Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. See above. Horses for courses. > > B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. I'm sure it's not perfect. It's the closest we've had to date though. > > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny > shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. Have you tried taking the shifting help off? <G>. Have you ever tried shifting through a period GP gearbox? Come to that, have you seen and heard many 67 cars in action from trackside? Drivers on occasion would complain that their hands felt like a plate of meat after races, especially after clutches broke. > I've always admired F1 drivers > for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL > seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. See above > > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for > hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. No offence mate but comparing the best racing sim on the market with Doom <ROTFLOL> MS > > 2_Slow > > > >

> > The thing I have noticed that is odd. All the Formula 1 races I have > >watched, the F1 cars are glued to the ground. Well, they have monstrous wings, diffusers, etc etc. A CART car can (theoretically of course :) stick upside down at 'just' 100mph. > >They seem to have > >tremendous down force generated. Thier suspensions also seem to be very > >stiff. Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at > >incredible speeds like they are on rails. The suspensions are so incredibly stiff because with the wings they effectively weigh a huge amount more at speed than they do sitting still. With a soft suspension, adding a couple thousand pounds would slam the car down instantly. > > > > How unlike GPL. > > Well, GPL cars don't have wings. No aero help whatsoever. > > Maybe they really are so much better than '67 cars. Maybe the tires > >back then had absolutely no grip for two laps. You have to get them warm and they are hideously hard!! Like in the '4 Wheel Drift' book included, a set could last 3 races, whereas now teams use 3 sets per race... > >Personally, I think the > >physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > >in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. Watch an old pre-aero (67 and older) F1 race on Speedvision. They ARE that soft and they DO roll that much. GPL is the antithesis of being 'hosed'. > > I for one, think GPL physics are seriously flawed, and am glad Papy > >decided to deep six them. No, they're anything but deep-sixed. N3 uses N2 physics only because it was a quicker and cheaper game to make, and, at the time, a computer capable of running GPL perioud was hard to come by and expensive. N4 does use GPL physics, which is OK since processors have gotten much faster (back when N3 came out a really fast one was what, 450? Top of the line is 1000 now...however, much of that speed will be necessary so as to be able to race with over double the amount of cars that GPL has.) and cheaper. Hopefully they'll code good D3d support into it this time... Of course, I might feel differently, had Papy > >not released such a crippled and bug infested turd of a demo. > > > > I might have even bought the game :) Well, yes, the demo blows :) -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

2_Slow, I was originally at a loss to explain your comments on how bad GPL's physics engine was. That was until I saw this line from one of your posts. "I might have even bought the game :)" Am I right in assuming that you base all of your assertions on the demo version of GPL? The reason I ask is that the demo version is NOTHING like the retail version. I played the demo and never even considered buying it until I happened upon this NG. I took the leap of faith and bought a copy and am very glad I did. Cheers, ...Colin

> Most, nay, nearly all people do not wish to spend thousands of > hours chained to thier computer It's a case of quality not quantity. I don't have as much time to mess about with my PC as I'd like, so when I *do* have time I try to spend it on things that give me maximum satisfaction. That usually means one driving sim and one flight sim at a time. In two years I've been through about five "serious" flight sims but only one driving sim. Thousands of hours? I doubt it very much! But hundreds on the same sim instead of ten on one, twenty on another, fifty on another etc is what most of us have experienced. > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter Which, while a problem, says nothing about quality, only about popularity. There's a difference in sims as in everything else in life. If you want ratings include real sex and murder, preferably at the same time. "Debbie Does Death Row" would be a good place to start. Popularity isn't necessarily bad, just don't make claims for it meaning anything. > A true sign of addiction, is when people go into denial > when confronted with the facts. Hehe. Keep it up, you're great entertainment. I often fall out with Dave Fisher, but at least he's not scared to own up to his opinions. I respect him for that. Andrew McP

Gentlemen, Why are you bothering to argue with this guy? 2_slow obviously has no idea what he's talking about (Otherwise, people in the know would have taken a '67 Galaxy to Europe back in '67 and shown those Limeys what for!) This guy's either got a dud of a 'puter or he can't get the hang of driving the sim. Either way, who cares? -- Bob Curtin Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

In article <38f1447c$0$[email hidden]>, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> writes: >You must have *plonked* me Eldred, I posted my setup a few hours ago. ><G> > > >"EldredP" wrote >> Uh, Tracey? You listening? <g> I usually read the newsgroup in 'batch' mode. You must have replied to Goy after I d/l'ed the messages...<shrug> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <8ct7bm$mj8$[email hidden]>, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >"Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:8csv6c$7vj$[email hidden]... >> >> Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidence rather >than >> pumping out opinionated garbage. >> >> MS > > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I >also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less body >roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by >the physics engine in GPL. > > Either: > > A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to >Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. > > B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. >

You're comparing '67 racing cars to '67 PASSENGER cars?!? Ok.... > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny >shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers >for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL >seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo.Now it seems like you're comparing '67 racing cars to MODERN racing cars. Again, not very realistic. Have you seen any in-car from a 1967 F1 race? > > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for >hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. > > 2_Slow The average hardware available 3 years ago wouldn't even *run* GPL that well... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <38f0e3b6$0$[email hidden]>, "Tracey A Miller" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>You're welcome to try my setup Eldred, but I can tell you it isn't as >effective in N3 as it was in N2. I could do mid 125's in N2 (damn Goy >and his 126's!! :-) In N3 I've yet to break 123. :-( > >Anyway, here it is: > NASCAR 3 Setup Sheet >

Thanks! [snip] > Comments: > >If you figure out how to get those missing 2-3 mph back let me know. > Hehe, who are YOU kidding?!? I'll probably do well to break 120's...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I suggest you rent the movie "Grand Prix" starring James Garner. This movie was shot in 1966 and shows the F1 cars of the time. There are many in-car shots and some of the shots are from real GP's. This should give you a better frame of reference to compare to GPL. Then please post back with your updated opinions on GPL physics <g> Cheers, ...Colin

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>Hardly any body lean at all. They go around the corners at >incredible speeds like they are on rails. >How unlike GPL. >I owned two '67 passenger cars. All three of these cars had less body >roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by >the physics engine in GPL. >I've always admired F1 drivers >for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL >seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. > What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon returning >to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have sought out >his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, and told >him, "FIX THE BLOODY BRAKES!".

Please tell us this is all one big troll :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

I don't need to dig out tape, kids. Gran Prix racing was regular venue on ABC's Wide World of Sports back then, though it was always tape delayed. Though I was watching it on a black and white tele. 2_slow "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8cvil1$24j8$[email hidden]... > Stick some modern F1 carbon brakes on a 67 car and the differencewould be > negligible. Brakes are only as good as the ability of a tyre to handlethe > forces or grip!! > > Not being nasty here buddy but I'd seriously advise you to do a bitmore

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> research before making so many rash statements. > > MS > > > "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8cuetb$ikm$[email hidden]... > > What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon

returning > > to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have soughtout > > his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, andtold > > him, "FIX THE BLOODY BRAKES!". > > > > Sorry, but the physics in GPL all seem to be highly exxageratedto

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> > me. Perhaps this is why a handful of people enjoy it so much. > > > > 2_Slow > > > > > >

"Graeme Nash" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Please tell us this is all one big troll :-) > > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > Actually, no. It has been a rather enlightening experience to see what depths, true computer game addiction can come to. Most, nay, nearly all people do not wish to spend thousands of hours chained to thier computer, running one game (yes, I know calling GPL a game, is blasphemy, to those addicted), just to become proficient enough, to keep from getting lapped by the field. The learning curve is too steep, and too long for people who have a life away from thier computer. What most, nay nearly all, people want, is a racing sim, that they can spend a couple of weekends getting up to speed, and then race competitively with at least the back markers. We all know that's not going to happen with GPL, don't we? A true sign of addiction, is when people go into denial when confronted with the facts. The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down and took a pass on the title. They don't want to sit handcuffed to thier computer for thousands of hours, just so they can post thier lap times in R.A.S. either, you see? BTW, you chaps need to leave the N3 group alone and get to work on those F1 2000 fellows. Thier posts are beginning to outnumber the GPL posts here ;) Now wouldn't that be true blasphemy to the holy grail of auto sims? 2_Slow

Someone in this thread, I don't remember who, asked , what was granny shifting. It is a term, not often used today, but was popular in my teenage days, in the mid to late sixties, among hot rodders and racers of that time. Granny is a shortened venacular term for grandmother. Granny shifting meant: A) Someone driving a manual transmissioned car, who was not adept at working the gearbox. B) Shifting your gearbox in a lazy or slovenly manner. I.E. You're shifting like your grandmother would. 2_Slow

What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon returning to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have sought out his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, and told him, "FIX THE BLOODY BRAKES!". Sorry, but the physics in GPL all seem to be highly exxagerated to me. Perhaps this is why a handful of people enjoy it so much. 2_Slow

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XkxI4.15562$[email hidden]... > I can't resist replying to this troll... oh well 8) > But wasn't the initial post in this thread, by a diehard GPL fan, in and of itself, a troll? ;) 2_Slow

Were you using a supported graphics card ? The graphics were absolutely fine on mine (Voodoo 1 at the time) Were you using Win 95 (if using the original demo) ? Win 98 had some problems with the first demo. What's granny shifting, did you use auto ? I haven't heard of any major problems with anyones system and the first GPL demo except for not running in Win 98 or poor framerate with low spec systems. -- Ian Parker [email hidden] [email hidden] == 2_Slow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8csrci$kd1$[email hidden]... > > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RhgI4.9377$[email hidden]... > > Oh and BTW, where were the bugs in the GPL demo ? It worked flawlesly > for > > me. > > > > Nod. Whenever I escaped from a race back to the menus, my machine > would lock up tight on me. Only way to get out of it was power off and > back on. I grew weary of watching scandisc run on a 40 gb hard drive. I > deep sixed the bug infested bugger. > I won't even get into the graphic anomalies or the granny shifting in > the demo. > > 2_Slow > >

I can't resist replying to this troll... oh well 8) "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I > also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less body > roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by > the physics engine in GPL. Just think a little about what you just wrote. Just think of the obvious flaw of comparing a normal road car and a formula one racecar. Whatever the situation, your point doesn't stand, as the laptimes in GPL equal mostly the ones that the 1967 F1 season had. > A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to > Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. > > B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. C) You just forgot to think. > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny > shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. Hello??? Another time.. please think of the crude and harsh gearbox that those F1 had back in 1967. Just use your brain... > I've always admired F1 drivers > for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL > seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. Hmm... I suggest you watch footage of vintage Formula 1 racing. Why do you ASSume such things? Shifting in that era _was_ rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Very realistic imo. > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for > hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. You obviously don't use much your brain. Doom wasn't released 3 years ago. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

OK, maybe this guy's not trolling... > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I >also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less body >roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by >the physics engine in GPL. Bias-ply tires on a car that weighed, what, 4000+ pounds..compared to a car that had maybe 2500-3000 pounds less weight, easily 2X the power (musclecar or not, you didn't drive a ZL1 Chevy) and yet you complain about an F1 car having worse grip. Downforce is the same as weigfht, so far as grip's concerned. The power-to-grip ratio of an F1 car, compared to your stiffly sprung, ultra-grippy WRC-prepped '67 Impala, is significantly higher. Therein lies the challenge of driving F1. Try driving a 600HP pickup truck in the rain and then make a post about lousy grip. > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny >shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers >for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL >seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. Try shifting 700+HP through a gearbox designed for minimal weight, with a six-foot linkage, not some column-shift boat anchor designed to last five years instead of five weeks. Modern F1 cars use a completely different transmission, I've read the current Ferrari box shifts in something like 30 milliseconds...certainly quicker than I can do! > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for >hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. > > 2_Slow Given your keen assessment of what constitutes a racing sim, I've no doubt you'll be perfectly happy with the accurate physics of N3 or F1 2000.

The brakes are good enough to lock up the tires but the grip the hard ass rubber tires without downforce is awful. On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 00:57:50 -0500, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon returning >to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have sought out >his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, and told >him, "FIX THE BLOODY BRAKES!". > > Sorry, but the physics in GPL all seem to be highly exxagerated to >me. Perhaps this is why a handful of people enjoy it so much. > > 2_Slow > >

On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:39:04 -0500, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for >hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. > > 2_Slow Best suited for hardware 3 years old... First, the demo came out in April 98, only 2 years ago, and the hardware back then certainly wasn't enough for GPL, no way you could get 36 fps all the time. Even now with my PIII Voodoo 3 I don't get 36 fps at the start of Monaco! Imho your knowledge of car physics is quite low, but your hardware knowledge can also be improved a lot... Andre

> Modern F1 cars use a completely different transmission, I've read the > current Ferrari box shifts in something like 30 > milliseconds...certainly quicker than I can do! From what I've read, a modern F1 box can do N-1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4-3-2-1-n-R-n in something like 0.7 seconds :-) Ahh, the FG series boxes of the past. They are just lovely! Having driven race cars with them; there's only a few glitches in GPL: 1) Try getting those boxes into 1st when standing still! (GrrrIIIIIIINNNNNDDDD, GRIIIIIIIINNNNNDDDD, (pump clutch & gas) GriiiiNNNND CLUNCK!! *stalled it*) 2) Oh, the glory of heel & toe downshifting, doing the blipping on yer own! A nice cammy race engine like the DFV or a Hart 24R....sweet! 3) The diff, which would pull black marks on the inside tire if doing a sharp turn at 2mph.... 4) Wandering off a bit: But I'd love to see the engines idle at 2200 RPM, and be a real dog to get going! Come to think of it, 1st gear is nearly impossible to select while at speed, it was effectively just a gear for starting. Love the 67 Impala story BTW :-) Anybody see "Bullit"? See the Charger there, which was one of the rawest US cars in those days? (although the Shelby Mustang makes it a bit wussy)? LOL, it almost scrapes its door handles on the ground when cornering hard! Would have been outrun by a 1071 Cooper S kinda easily, at least in the San Fransisco city centre :-D Matt (woohooo!)

What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon returning to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have sought out his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, and told him, "FIX THE ***Y BRAKES!". Sorry, but the physics in GPL all seem to be highly exxagerated to me. Perhaps this is why a handful of people enjoy it so much. 2_Slow

Further to my previous post, I dug out some old video footage of Jim Clark lapping round Brands Hatch in a Galaxy. It was quite amusing watching him take Druids with the car nearly cornering on it's door handles <G> MS <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8ctjud$vdu$[email hidden]...

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> LMAO > I just had to reply to this one! > I can just see the old '67 Galaxy cranking off laps at Monaco. LOL > Comparing your passenger cars to F1 cars is just too much! > I really like the "better tire grip" quote. I don't think your Impala > had quite the Horsepower to weight ratio that the F1 car has. > This is like saying my Toyota Tercel is a "superior" vehicle to a World > of Outlaws sprint car because It doesn't flex as much when I stomp on > the gas, and by gosh I have so much more traction, i've never smoked the > tires on the ol' Toyota! > Yup the name 2_Slow fits alright. LOL > > > In article <8ct7bm$mj8$[email hidden]>, > "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > "Mark Seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8csv6c$7vj$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidence > rather > > than > > > pumping out opinionated garbage. > > > > > > MS > > > > I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. > I > > also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less > body > > roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed > by > > the physics engine in GPL. > > > > Either: > > > > A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to > > Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt. > > > > B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate. > > > > Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny > > shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers > > for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL > > seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo. > > > > It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited > for > > hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom. > > > > 2_Slow > > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Stick some modern F1 carbon brakes on a 67 car and the difference would be negligible. Brakes are only as good as the ability of a tyre to handle the forces or grip!! Not being nasty here buddy but I'd seriously advise you to do a bit more research before making so many rash statements. MS "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8cuetb$ikm$[email hidden]...

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> What about the brakes. Any race car driver ever born, upon returning > to the pits after a few laps in a GPL physics car, would have sought out > his mechanic, beat him severely about the head and shoulders, and told > him, "FIX THE BLOODY BRAKES!". > > Sorry, but the physics in GPL all seem to be highly exxagerated to > me. Perhaps this is why a handful of people enjoy it so much. > > 2_Slow > >

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: <sniiiiiip> > What most, nay nearly all, people want, is a racing sim, that they >can spend a couple of weekends getting up to speed, and then race >competitively with at least the back markers. Pay attention now, big difference here! Those aren't called sims, they are called arcade games. > We all know that's not going to happen with GPL, don't we? We do! > A true sign of addiction, is when people go into denial when >confronted with the facts. So far you didn't give facts, only your opinion. You said GPL was designed for 3 year old hardware, complete nonsense ofcourse. Hardware available when GPL was released (2 years ago) wasn't good enough for GPL, the hardware now available just is good enough for 36fps all the time (including those important starts with 20 cars). You said a lot of other nonsense too, but I allready forgot. > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and >most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down >and took a pass on the title. First is correct, GPL didn't sell lots of copys. Again, a lot of people passed GPL because they found it too difficult. If one really is into SIM racing, you should be willing to spend a lot of time on a sim to be able to handle it. You can't expect to win after ten races with a realistic SIM? I bet you love NFS3? > They don't want to sit handcuffed to thier computer for thousands of >hours, just so they can post thier lap times in R.A.S. either, you see? I see. They want to win after one hour of practice. Great. > BTW, you chaps need to leave the N3 group alone and get to work on >those F1 2000 fellows. Thier posts are beginning to outnumber the GPL >posts here ;) Now wouldn't that be true blasphemy to the holy grail of >auto sims? RAS is open for every sim, good or bad. Is 2_slow perhaps a pseudo for David G. Fisher? > > 2_Slow to think

Quite right Bob. It's time to put the lid on this one..... MS "Bob Curtin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Gentlemen, > > Why are you bothering to argue with this guy? 2_slow obviously has noidea > what he's talking about (Otherwise, people in the know would have taken a'67 > Galaxy to Europe back in '67 and shown those Limeys what for!) > > This guy's either got a dud of a 'puter or he can't get the hang ofdriving > the sim. Either way, who cares? > -- > Bob Curtin > Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange > http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/ > "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green,baggy > skin" > >

Sounds like my kinda sim! What kind of games do I play on my Pentium 60? Indycar Racing II, Simcity 2000, hmmm... Nascar II... GPL sounds great. I like realism. Todd http://PerformanceSimulations.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> >> Hehe, who are YOU kidding?!? I'll probably do well to break 120's...<g> > >Try setting shifting to "auto" until you get familiar with the track and >the setup, most of the "fast guys" are faster with "manual" I suppose, >personally I use the gears to judge my entry speed into the corners, but >using "auto" for a while will let you focus on your lines and braking >and turn in points, there used to be a replay of a good lap at the "Team >Mirage" web page, but the site is under reconstruction so it has been >removed for the time being

I'm comfortable enough with manual shifting now that I don't think that's an issue. After being convinced about a year ago to shift in GPL, I do it in every racing game I play now. It's now as difficult as it seemed when I started. I haven't had time to run the Glen in N3 yet, so I'll have to get back to you with my times... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Knot Hym <[email hidden]> writes: >Different ball game altogether. No real comparisons possible given the >aero doodads. Now you need a foam rubber ass and shocks on your >eyeballs. One thing hasn't changed though. You still have to clank >when you walk. LOL! What an expression...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Things I've learned in this thread: GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are totally converted to GPLism. Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967 Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After all, God did code it. Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim. If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves ("Quantity does not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders" "They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect, much cares. You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer anyway. Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh man, not the hay bales again! That #@%$*&!!!! Shuie!" Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier face, as you break the trace. This is normal. Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out. When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too much", they are well on the road to recovery. 2_Slow Just say no

JTW62074 wrote: > Wow. This is a great thread! I've only got a Pentium 60, so can't play GPL > yet. I wanted it so bad when it first came out I asked the guy when it would > be released...He said he never heard of it! Long time ago. Someday.....Need > a hot computer! Pentium 60? And I was getting depressed becaue I only have a 400. What are you playing on that thing? Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > Is 2_slow perhaps a pseudo for David G. Fisher? > I am not, nor have I ever been, David G. Fisher. 2_Slow

Ya it was a turd at the sales counter, but then "Deer Hunter" and "Myst" were all time best sellers, hmmm... popularity = quality, I DON'T THINK SO! LMAO.....This is one of the best trolls iv'e seen in a *long* time! > > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter,and > most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbsdown > and took a pass on the title. > 2_Slow > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Wow. This is a great thread! I've only got a Pentium 60, so can't play GPL yet. I wanted it so bad when it first came out I asked the guy when it would be released...He said he never heard of it! Long time ago. Someday.....Need a hot computer! Todd Wasson BTW, I know a little about physics modeling... Check out http://PerformanceSimulations.com for an example

I watched this movie...actually bought it this weekend. I'd just started really trying to learn GPL. I'm using F2's. man I'm hooked now. After the watching the movie it only got worse. Now its like I prefer this era over the modern era. Amazing cuz just one week ago I was contemplating getting F12k. I'm new to these sims...but man GPL is just an awesome feel. Saint19 Colin > wrote in message <8cvih5$j29$[email hidden]>...

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>I suggest you rent the movie "Grand Prix" starring James Garner. >This movie was shot in 1966 and shows the F1 cars of the time. >There are many in-car shots and some of the shots are from real GP's. >This should give you a better frame of reference to compare to GPL. >Then please post back with your updated opinions on GPL physics <g> > >Cheers, >...Colin > >

LOL! Great selection of words, Knot! :-D Matt Knot Hym wrote;

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> Watch that movie puppy and concentrate on what the suspensions are > doing vis a vis the tub/engine/gearbox units. Lots of "compliance". > Noses come waaaaay down on decel on some of the corners. Took a lot of > "give" to get the power down and keep it down. > > Now look for slow mo telephoto lens head on shots of contemporary F1 > cars. The drivers heads are bouncing around like fleas in a hot > skillet. Remember a few years ago when under car air management was > sucking the seal coats right off the tracks? Very little "compliance". > In F1 before blow offs on the Turbo-Kompressors I believe the mills > were making about 1000+ very hairy legged horses in a power band like > a light switch. Got to get it down to the contact patch racing > surface interface. > > Different ball game altogether. No real comparisons possible given the > aero doodads. Now you need a foam rubber ass and shocks on your > eyeballs. One thing hasn't changed though. You still have to clank > when you walk. > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:22:19 -0600, "Michael St.Julien" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I watched this movie...actually bought it this weekend. I'd just started > >really trying to learn GPL. I'm using F2's. man I'm hooked now. After

the > >watching the movie it only got worse. Now its like I prefer this eraover > >the modern era. Amazing cuz just one week ago I was contemplatinggetting

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> >F12k. I'm new to these sims...but man GPL is just an awesome feel. > > > >Saint19 > > > >Colin > wrote in message <8cvih5$j29$[email hidden]>... > >>I suggest you rent the movie "Grand Prix" starring James Garner. > >>This movie was shot in 1966 and shows the F1 cars of the time. > >>There are many in-car shots and some of the shots are from real GP's. > >>This should give you a better frame of reference to compare to GPL. > >>Then please post back with your updated opinions on GPL physics <g> > >> > >>Cheers, > >>...Colin > >> > >> > > > > [email hidden] > Remove the Spam blocker to reply

EldredP wrote: > > Hehe, who are YOU kidding?!? I'll probably do well to break 120's...<g> Try setting shifting to "auto" until you get familiar with the track and the setup, most of the "fast guys" are faster with "manual" I suppose, personally I use the gears to judge my entry speed into the corners, but using "auto" for a while will let you focus on your lines and braking and turn in points, there used to be a replay of a good lap at the "Team Mirage" web page, but the site is under reconstruction so it has been removed for the time being If you can do steady 120's in an online race in N3, you're not too far off and will probably not do too bad, Tracey isn't exactly a slow guy on Glen, and if you're only a couple of mph's off his pace, you at least have the basics down, but getting really good at the road courses takes time, not because road courses takes a special skill or anything, but just as much because there are more corners and therefore more to remember Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: ... > What most, nay nearly all, people want, is a racing sim, that they >can spend a couple of weekends getting up to speed, and then race >competitively with at least the back markers. Which is a paradox, since no-one could race in real cars and be good enough to be up there with the best in 'a couple of weekends'. So to have a racing sim like you (and yes, probably the majority of virtual racers today) want would mean making the simulation easier than real life. It's a matter of taste; jumping into a game and driving a few laps and the quitting again (the NFS crowd), and really learning how to drive with as much detail as possible (GPL). I like F12000 very much, but the feel of the car that GPL has (esp. with FF) is much better. And when you DO get quite a feel for the GPL cars, they tend to be quite forgiving even. If you don't want to learn to drive for real, stick to the simpler NFS-type of racing games. If you're into more realism, try GPL. Just a matter of taste. But it can be independently measured that GPL has more realistic handling than any other sim/game on the market today. > We all know that's not going to happen with GPL, don't we? > > A true sign of addiction, is when people go into denial when >confronted with the facts. Denial? It's a difficult game, and even if it does/would not represent the actual era correctly, it is still a fun and rewarding game. And I don't think the GPL cars are that hard to drive anymore. It was just a matter of some practice. Learning to DRIVE better. Which is something you can't learn from a lot of other sims to this level. Yes, many people have the idea they are now driving better than they used to. In fact, my kart times (in real life) have dropped because I now brake faster and drive better thought-out lines than before GPL. Something which I can't really learn from a lot of other sims. F12K is quite good in that respect, although the cars handle a bit on the edge most of the time. GPL is better to learn how to drive smooth. No signs of denial here. > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and >most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down >and took a pass on the title. Well, the majority of the buyers just didn't want to invest such a long time in conquering the game. Just like the fact that I'm not buying adventures anymore cause I don't want to spend so much time on it. I like racing far better. You may call it a thumbs down, I see it as just a nice market. We're both right in our perspectives ofcourse. > They don't want to sit handcuffed to thier computer for thousands of >hours, just so they can post thier lap times in R.A.S. either, you see? Ok, so? > BTW, you chaps need to leave the N3 group alone and get to work on >those F1 2000 fellows. Thier posts are beginning to outnumber the GPL >posts here ;) Now wouldn't that be true blasphemy to the holy grail of >auto sims? No, F12K is quite ok. I just hope GP3 is better. It might even have me leave GPL if good enough. But as long as GPL has the best realism, there will be a group of people discussing it. F12K is good, so there's a lot of talk about it. More so even because there are so many detailistic problems with it. (now was that a word, detailistic? ;-) But well, the comparison between racing and passenger cars was ofcourse a bit of a not-thought-over idea. I don't think Schumacher in his modern F1 car can park his F1 car as easily as I can in my passenger car, but that's comparing apples and pears, so why are you? Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

Ruud van Gaal wrote:

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> > On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and > >most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down > >and took a pass on the title. > > Well, the majority of the buyers just didn't want to invest such a > long time in conquering the game. Just like the fact that I'm not > buying adventures anymore cause I don't want to spend so much time on > it. I like racing far better.

The reason for GPL not selling many copies is much more trivial. I talked to a salesperson at a games shop, and he said that no matter how good a game/sim GPL is, these 'old formulas' simply do not appeal to the majority of buyers (mainly teenagers). They want to be Hakkinens or Shumachers, funny sounding names like Brabham appeal only to the hardcore F1 crowd. -Gregor

[email hidden] (Knot Hym) wrote in <[email hidden]>: > >Remember a few years ago when under car air management was >sucking the seal coats right off the tracks? For F1 and Indy street races they actually have to weld down the steel man hole covers so that the vacuum doesn't suck them up. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C.

You tried it but you didnt like it didnt you. It was too hard for little you :0(. Made you feel small. Never mind, some are not ready yet, you are one who is not ready. The physics is only for the chosen. you are too old to begin the trainning anyway. Stick to games with steering help, until, one day, even you may be ready. You will never do the Ring in under 10mins, you puff <G>. Bye You puff. 2_Slow wrote in message <8d2er9$5fv$[email hidden]>...

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>Things I've learned in this thread: > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the >evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report >some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are >totally converted to GPLism. > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot >admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967 >Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to >the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After >all, God did code it. > > Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and >sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some >innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got >Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be >cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this >hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim. > > If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the >followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves ("Quantity does >not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders" >"They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect, >much cares. > > You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the >doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer >anyway. > > Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a >religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh >man, not the hay bales again! That #@%$*&!!!! Shuie!" > > Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You >might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier >face, as you break the trace. This is normal. > > Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the >park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be >patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out. > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no >appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too >much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > 2_Slow > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <8d2er9$5fv$[email hidden]>, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Things I've learned in this thread: > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the >evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report >some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are >totally converted to GPLism. > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot >admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967 >Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to >the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After >all, God did code it. > > Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and >sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some >innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got >Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be >cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this >hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim. > > If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the >followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves ("Quantity does >not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders" >"They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect, >much cares. > > You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the >doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer >anyway. > > Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a >religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh >man, not the hay bales again! That #@%$*&!!!! Shuie!" > > Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You >might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier >face, as you break the trace. This is normal. > > Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the >park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be >patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out. > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no >appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too >much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > 2_Slow > Just say no

Y'know, I think this was pretty funny! Obviously over-exaggerated, but still funny...<g> I guess I haven't had enough time in the program yet... But then again, I'm an atheist, so I couldn't have a 'religious' experience... :-). Eldred Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Things I've learned in this thread: Empty vessels. Andrew McP

Wow!! That's REAL "racin' talk". :-) I'm sitting here reading this post and it's like listening to the dialogue from an old 40's B-grade movie featuring Ronald Reagan and George Raft! All we need is to have Walter Brennan playing the part of the crusty-yet-lovable old mechanic! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Knot Hym <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Watch that movie puppy and concentrate on what the suspensions are > doing vis a vis the tub/engine/gearbox units. Lots of "compliance". > Noses come waaaaay down on decel on some of the corners. Took a lot of > "give" to get the power down and keep it down. > > Now look for slow mo telephoto lens head on shots of contemporary F1 > cars. The drivers heads are bouncing around like fleas in a hot > skillet. Remember a few years ago when under car air management was > sucking the seal coats right off the tracks? Very little "compliance". > In F1 before blow offs on the Turbo-Kompressors I believe the mills > were making about 1000+ very hairy legged horses in a power band like > a light switch. Got to get it down to the contact patch racing > surface interface. > > Different ball game altogether. No real comparisons possible given the > aero doodads. Now you need a foam rubber ass and shocks on your > eyeballs. One thing hasn't changed though. You still have to clank > when you walk. > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:22:19 -0600, "Michael St.Julien" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I watched this movie...actually bought it this weekend. I'd just started > >really trying to learn GPL. I'm using F2's. man I'm hooked now. After the > >watching the movie it only got worse. Now its like I prefer this era over > >the modern era. Amazing cuz just one week ago I was contemplating getting > >F12k. I'm new to these sims...but man GPL is just an awesome feel. > > > >Saint19 > > > >Colin > wrote in message <8cvih5$j29$[email hidden]>... > >>I suggest you rent the movie "Grand Prix" starring James Garner. > >>This movie was shot in 1966 and shows the F1 cars of the time. > >>There are many in-car shots and some of the shots are from real GP's. > >>This should give you a better frame of reference to compare to GPL. > >>Then please post back with your updated opinions on GPL physics <g> > >> > >>Cheers, > >>...Colin > >> > >> > > > > [email hidden] > Remove the Spam blocker to reply

Empty vessels. Andrew McP

Things I've learned: Some people think road cars are comparable in performance to F1 cars. Some people don't realise that technology can advance in a period of 33 years. Some people can be thought of as GPL "zealots" because they try to make sense of some idiot's "creative" views on physics... Troll threads like this can provide amu***t :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

Mr. Hym, I empathise with you in some small way, sir. Although not involved in hot rodding I was involved in club-level sports car racing....MG Midget 1969. That _was_ in 1969!! Now, 30 years later, family grown up, I keep young with an MGB and TC and am still involved in club-level activities :-) See...it _is_ possible not to grow up!! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Knot Hym <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, thats the way we car guys still talk here in Southern > California, the cradle of hot rodding. When I was a nipper, I had a 51 > Ford Tudor, Flattie. Black lacquer, louvres, Potvin cam, Edelbrock > heads and manifold. Oh, and chrome acorn nuts. Vertex mag. Lots of > sweet stuff. I also had a MG-TD. Ran that at Ascot. J.C. Agajanian > opened this dirt oval up on Thursday(?) nights to sporty car types to > pump attendence. Triple R provided competition licenses to anybody > with a "sports car" who was warm to the touch. I was 16. > > My dad was member number 15, or close to that, in the NHRA. He later > built the first fiber glass sportscar kit. Yesterday, after lunch, a > friend of mine pulled out in his orginal T-roadster small block daily > driver and lit the tires on State Street in Santa Barbara. He talks > like this too. > > Speaking of movies, there is a bomb B movie called Johnny Dark. The > two featured cars were my dad's. > > Hot Rods forever. Sports cars on Sunday, Canyon race bikes a couple of > times a month. You'll stay young forever. Or, maybe you'll just never > grow up. > > On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:03:30 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wow!! > >That's REAL "racin' talk". :-) I'm sitting here reading this post and it's > >like listening to the dialogue from an old 40's B-grade movie featuring > >Ronald Reagan and George Raft! All we need is to have Walter Brennan playing > >the part of the crusty-yet-lovable old mechanic! > > [email hidden] > Remove the Spam blocker to reply

[email hidden] (Gregor Veble) wrote in <38F487FF.E9C1BEEC@uni- mb.si>:

Quoted text (22 lines)

>Ruud van Gaal wrote: >> >> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> > The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and >> >most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down >> >and took a pass on the title. >> >> Well, the majority of the buyers just didn't want to invest such a >> long time in conquering the game. Just like the fact that I'm not >> buying adventures anymore cause I don't want to spend so much time on >> it. I like racing far better. > >The reason for GPL not selling many copies is much more trivial. I >talked to a salesperson at a games shop, and he said that no matter how >good a game/sim GPL is, these 'old formulas' simply do not appeal to the >majority of buyers (mainly teenagers). They want to be Hakkinens or >Shumachers, funny sounding names like Brabham appeal only to the >hardcore F1 crowd. > >-Gregor

Outside of the U.S. that is. I don't think that the names Hakkinen and Shumacher really count for all that much here. F1, downhill skiing, bobsledding, etc. just don't seem to have the following here.

Must.....get.......GPL........Must....get.....fast......computer.........3-D card.......... Todd http://PerformanceSimulations.com --Download a free practice tree!

Hopefully this will change. Isn't Formula 1 coming back to the States again? Indianapolis built/is building a road course. Todd http://PerformanceSimulations.com

Awesome. When is the F-1 race? Todd http://PerformanceSimulations.com

lbaum wrote:

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> > Outside of the U.S. that is. I don't think that the names Hakkinen and > Shumacher really count for all that much here. > > F1, downhill skiing, bobsledding, etc. just don't seem to have the > following here. >

That's true, and that's why F1 sim market was always, just like rally games, predominantly European, especially ever since the US do not host a Grand Prix. Papyrus may have developed an outstanding sim, but they simulated a less than popular type of cars either side of the pond. -Gregor

JTW62074 wrote: > > Hopefully this will change. Isn't Formula 1 coming back to the States again? > Indianapolis built/is building a road course. > Todd > http://PerformanceSimulations.com Yes, even this year there will be a race at Indy. The track is run partly on the oval, and partly it is run on a twisty (almost karting like) section in the middle of the oval. Even better, this track is featured in F1 2000. Just like Walter Wolf (he used to run a grand prix team by the same name in the years 76-79, and is originally a fellow Slovenian) said, F1 cannot consider itself a global sport without races and popularity in the States. -Gregor

JTW62074 wrote: > > Awesome. When is the F-1 race? > > Todd > http://PerformanceSimulations.com Not so soon, 24th September 2000. I'm really looking forward to it! -Gregpr

snakehands <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:#P7nIzYp$GA.321@cpmsnbbsa04... SNIP > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the > >evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report > >some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are > >totally converted to GPLism. Yes, it's like this for me. After GPL, all driving games suck! GPL is the greatest driving game of all time :-). K.S. Br�nnick

Denial is such a terrible thing ;) -- Ian Parker == 2_Slow <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8d2er9$5fv$[email hidden]... > Things I've learned in this thread: > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are > totally converted to GPLism. > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967 > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After > all, God did code it. > > Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and > sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some > innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got > Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be > cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this > hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim. > > If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the > followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves ("Quantity does > not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders" > "They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect, > much cares. > > You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the > doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer > anyway. > > Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a > religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh > man, not the hay bales again! That #@%$*&!!!! Shuie!" > > Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You > might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier > face, as you break the trace. This is normal. > > Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the > park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be > patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out. > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > 2_Slow > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > >

m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VVFK4.3904$[email hidden]... > Alas, not awesome I fear. There will still be a few awesome things that even the "uncultured" American fan will notice and appreciate. The sounds. They've heard the NASCAR rumblers, the CART turbos and the IRL V8s, but nothing quite like the shriek of the F1 cars, or their gunshot gearshifts. It will make people sit up and take notice. The pit stops are quite furious to watch. I don't like the idea of refuelling, but the F1 pitstop is a whole different event that NASCAR or Indycar. The acceleration of the F1 car can be appreciated, even from the grandstands. The braking will really make some of the more-than-casual fans question their eyes and ears. Anyone who has watched NASCAR at a road course, or Indycars, will be watching the F1s come screaming down the main straight, thinking "he's missed his braking point... he's REALLY missed his braking point [here comes the wreck!]... whoa... how the *�%!$ did he do that?" Stephen > F1 is going to look like a joke at Indy. People are used to seeing an > Indycar (IRL or call it what you will) or even a Stock car thundering past > at speeds well in excess of 200 mph running wheel to wheel with others. > When the GP cars take to the track, doing around 40-50 mph less than the > former and miles apart from each other, it is going to be a far less > impressive sight. Add to this, an infield section that, as somebody elsehas > quite correctly pointed out, hardly does justice to a go kart and F1 is > going to look farcical. Once again Bernie has bowed to the great money god > rather than think about putting on a show at one of the great US road > circuits. Sign of the times I guess. > > BTW. All you Yanks out there might want to read up on the F1 rules. Thereis

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> one somewhere that states that unless lapping a Minadi or Prost, all > overtaking manoeuvres must be executed cleanly in the pit lane <G> > > MS > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > JTW62074 wrote: > > > > > > Awesome. When is the F-1 race? > > > > > > Todd > > > http://PerformanceSimulations.com > > > > Not so soon, 24th September 2000. I'm really looking forward to it! > > > > -Gregpr > >

:)

"m.seery" wrote: > > BTW. All you Yanks out there might want to read up on the F1 rules. There is > one somewhere that states that unless lapping a Minadi or Prost, all > overtaking manoeuvres must be executed cleanly in the pit lane <G> > ROTFLOL !!! -Gregor

Alas, not awesome I fear. F1 is going to look like a joke at Indy. People are used to seeing an Indycar (IRL or call it what you will) or even a Stock car thundering past at speeds well in excess of 200 mph running wheel to wheel with others. When the GP cars take to the track, doing around 40-50 mph less than the former and miles apart from each other, it is going to be a far less impressive sight. Add to this, an infield section that, as somebody else has quite correctly pointed out, hardly does justice to a go kart and F1 is going to look farcical. Once again Bernie has bowed to the great money god rather than think about putting on a show at one of the great US road circuits. Sign of the times I guess. BTW. All you Yanks out there might want to read up on the F1 rules. There is one somewhere that states that unless lapping a Minadi or Prost, all overtaking manoeuvres must be executed cleanly in the pit lane <G> MS "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> JTW62074 wrote: > > > > Awesome. When is the F-1 race? > > > > Todd > > http://PerformanceSimulations.com > > Not so soon, 24th September 2000. I'm really looking forward to it! > > -Gregpr

>BTW. All you Yanks out there might want to read up on the F1 rules. >There is one somewhere that states that unless lapping a Minadi or >Prost, all overtaking manoeuvres must be executed cleanly in the pit >lane <G> > >MS :)

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>The acceleration of the F1 car can be appreciated, even from the >grandstands. The braking will really make some of the more-than-casual >fans question their eyes and ears. Anyone who has watched NASCAR at a >road course, or Indycars, will be watching the F1s come screaming down >the main straight, thinking "he's missed his braking point... he's >REALLY missed his braking point [here comes the wreck!]... whoa... how >the *�%!$ did he do that?" > >Stephen

Indeed, while there may not be nearly so much passing in F1 as in IndyCar/IRL, there is the breathtaking performance of the F1 cars to marvel at and the excitement of how on edge the cars always seem to be- always like they are within 1mm of every limit. IndyCars tend to look more stable and less impressive.

Stephen Ferguson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8dfbll$7c0l8$[email hidden]... > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VVFK4.3904$[email hidden]... > > Alas, not awesome I fear. > > There will still be a few awesome things that even the "uncultured"American > fan will notice and appreciate. The sounds. They've heard the NASCAR > rumblers, the CART turbos and the IRL V8s, but nothing quite like theshriek > of the F1 cars, or their gunshot gearshifts. It will make people sit upand > take notice. Hmm, ALMS Ferrari 333SP, Lola Judd.... sounds just as good as any F1 in my ears :-) > > The pit stops are quite furious to watch. I don't like the idea of > refuelling, but the F1 pitstop is a whole different event that NASCAR or > Indycar. Well, shame you can't really see them because of the "crowd"...um > > The acceleration of the F1 car can be appreciated, even from the > grandstands. The braking will really make some of the more-than-casualfans > question their eyes and ears. Anyone who has watched NASCAR at a road > course, or Indycars, will be watching the F1s come screaming down the main > straight, thinking "he's missed his braking point... he's REALLY missedhis > braking point [here comes the wreck!]... whoa... how the *�%!$ did he do > that?" Well, it is impressive, but I do think that you've overestimated 'em just a bit. And the ChampCars don't exactly hang back when braking. F1 would be so much more impressive at a circuit where they could be compared to ChampCars. And then, finally, the eternal F1 vs CART fight would be over :-) Pity, I'd like to see Mika at Elkhart lake! Matt > Stephen > > > > F1 is going to look like a joke at Indy. People are used to seeing an > > Indycar (IRL or call it what you will) or even a Stock car thunderingpast

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> > at speeds well in excess of 200 mph running wheel to wheel with others. > > When the GP cars take to the track, doing around 40-50 mph less than the > > former and miles apart from each other, it is going to be a far less > > impressive sight. Add to this, an infield section that, as somebody else > has > > quite correctly pointed out, hardly does justice to a go kart and F1 is > > going to look farcical. Once again Bernie has bowed to the great money

god > > rather than think about putting on a show at one of the great US road > > circuits. Sign of the times I guess. > > > > BTW. All you Yanks out there might want to read up on the F1 rules.There

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> is > > one somewhere that states that unless lapping a Minadi or Prost, all > > overtaking manoeuvres must be executed cleanly in the pit lane <G> > > > > MS > > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > JTW62074 wrote: > > > > > > > > Awesome. When is the F-1 race? > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > http://PerformanceSimulations.com > > > > > > Not so soon, 24th September 2000. I'm really looking forward to it! > > > > > > -Gregpr > > > > > >

Matthew B.Knutsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JRGK4.4744$[email hidden]...

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> > Stephen Ferguson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8dfbll$7c0l8$[email hidden]... > > > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VVFK4.3904$[email hidden]... > > > Alas, not awesome I fear. > > > > There will still be a few awesome things that even the "uncultured" > American > > fan will notice and appreciate. The sounds. They've heard the NASCAR > > rumblers, the CART turbos and the IRL V8s, but nothing quite like the > shriek > > of the F1 cars, or their gunshot gearshifts. It will make people sit up > and > > take notice. > > Hmm, ALMS Ferrari 333SP, Lola Judd.... sounds just as good as any F1 in my > ears :-)

Agreed, but the spectator base for the ALMS is a little sparse compared to NASCAR and CART / IRL. > > Well, it is impressive, but I do think that you've overestimated 'em justa > bit. And the ChampCars don't exactly hang back when braking. F1 would beso > much more impressive at a circuit where they could be compared toChampCars. > And then, finally, the eternal F1 vs CART fight would be over :-) > I've seen them both, and the difference is noticeable. But I would like to see them on the same circuit... at the same time :) Stephen

> I've seen them both, and thedifference is noticeable. But I would like to > see them on the same circuit... at thesame time :) > that only happens at stuttgart (sp?) in germany at the end of season mercedes hoorah, where a cart car races an f1 car round the factory.

Most of them have a well developed sense of humor. They got the jokes and thought the post was funny. Some folks just seem to have their underwear on a bit too tight, I guess. (Those of you who do not wear underwear need not post. More than we wanted to know). 2_Slow "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:P_rL4.2305$[email hidden]... > And what about GPL fans who also happen to be fans of GP2, ICR2 andN3? > > MS

I'm sorry the subtle humor contained in the post to alt.autos.gm escaped you. 2_Slow "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:126L4.1283$[email hidden]... > ROTFLOL > > Hey Fred. Stick with what you know ....... That little religious sectthat > you self confessed to belonging to, in alt.autos.gm > > Like driving your 00 Burban. You know the one.... It makes you feellike a > real he-man when you're behind the wheel. Sorta like Grizzly Adams.The fact > that you live in the city, not-withstanding. > > >"All, in all, my Burban really makes me feel good about myself. Thefact,

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> that I'm really a pencil necked >geek, is irrelevant" > > You said it buddy ;-) > > MS > > > > > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during

the

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> > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report > > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are > > totally converted to GPLism. > > > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot > > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a

1967 > > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the simaccording to > > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After > > all, God did code it. > > > > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, forno > > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bittoo

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> > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > > > > 2_Slow > > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

IMO, most of the trolling done in this newsgroup is done by GPL fans. They seem to get distraught when the tables are turned. *Shrug* 2_Slow "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IppL4.1255$[email hidden]... > Well I concede that picking this off deja, I might have read your postout > of context not having seen the whole thread. > > The fact remains that since joining this group, your mainpreoccupation > seems to have been to bash GPL and its "desciples" at everyopportunity. > Your last post seems to imply that we are all to be pidgeon holed withthe > same caracature. There are zealots in all walks of life my friend.Anyway,

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> there's no point in further flaming or falling out over such trivia is > there. > > MS > "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8dl3ud$d25$[email hidden]... > > I'm sorry the subtle humor contained in the post to alt.autos.gm > > escaped you. > > > > 2_Slow > > > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:126L4.1283$[email hidden]... > > > ROTFLOL > > > > > > Hey Fred. Stick with what you know ....... That little religious

sect > > that > > > you self confessed to belonging to, in alt.autos.gm > > > > > > Like driving your 00 Burban. You know the one.... It makes youfeel > > like a > > > real he-man when you're behind the wheel. Sorta like GrizzlyAdams. > > The fact > > > that you live in the city, not-withstanding. > > > > > > >"All, in all, my Burban really makes me feel good about myself.The

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> > fact, > > > that I'm really a pencil necked >geek, is irrelevant" > > > > > > You said it buddy ;-) > > > > > > MS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on

during > > the > > > > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on aMonday. > > > > > > > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it,report > > > > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward theyare > > > > totally converted to GPLism. > > > > > > > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that theycannot > > > > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every featureof a > > 1967 > > > > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim > > according to > > > > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim.After > > > > all, God did code it. > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak,for > > no > > > > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up abit

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> > too > > > > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > > > > > > > > > > 2_Slow > > > > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

ROTFLOL Hey Fred. Stick with what you know ....... That little religious sect that you self confessed to belonging to, in alt.autos.gm Like driving your 00 Burban. You know the one.... It makes you feel like a real he-man when you're behind the wheel. Sorta like Grizzly Adams. The fact that you live in the city, not-withstanding. >"All, in all, my Burban really makes me feel good about myself. The fact,that I'm really a pencil necked >geek, is irrelevant" You said it buddy ;-) MS

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> > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are > totally converted to GPLism. > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967 > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After > all, God did code it. > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > 2_Slow > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > >

There's still time for you to be saved brother!! In article <8d2er9$5fv$[email hidden]>, "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Things I've learned in this thread: > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it onduring the >evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on aMonday. > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it,report >some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward theyare >totally converted to GPLism. > > Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convertheathens and >sinners to the cult. > > > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Well I concede that picking this off deja, I might have read your post out of context not having seen the whole thread. The fact remains that since joining this group, your main preoccupation seems to have been to bash GPL and its "desciples" at every opportunity. Your last post seems to imply that we are all to be pidgeon holed with the same caracature. There are zealots in all walks of life my friend. Anyway, there's no point in further flaming or falling out over such trivia is there. MS "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8dl3ud$d25$[email hidden]...

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> I'm sorry the subtle humor contained in the post to alt.autos.gm > escaped you. > > 2_Slow > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:126L4.1283$[email hidden]... > > ROTFLOL > > > > Hey Fred. Stick with what you know ....... That little religious sect > that > > you self confessed to belonging to, in alt.autos.gm > > > > Like driving your 00 Burban. You know the one.... It makes you feel > like a > > real he-man when you're behind the wheel. Sorta like Grizzly Adams. > The fact > > that you live in the city, not-withstanding. > > > > >"All, in all, my Burban really makes me feel good about myself. The > fact, > > that I'm really a pencil necked >geek, is irrelevant" > > > > You said it buddy ;-) > > > > MS > > > > > > > > > > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during > the > > > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday. > > > > > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report > > > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are > > > totally converted to GPLism. > > > > > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot > > > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a > 1967 > > > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim > according to > > > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After > > > all, God did code it. > > > > > > > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for > no > > > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit > too > > > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > > > > > > > 2_Slow > > > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

You forgot about "shrinkage"... the washing machine type, not the Seinfeld type. Stephen David R. Ericson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm in that rare "weird" mood today so... > > You can't "put" your underwear on too tight, unless you wear a belt aroundyour > underwear. > > You either buy the underwear too tight, or you gain weight after buyingthe > underwear to the point where they get too tight. My case is the latter. > However I don't "put" them on that way, it's just the way it is everytimeI put > mine on. I suppose I could just go buy a whole new set of "bigger"underwear, > but it goes against my "wear them till the holes in them get too big" > philosophy. If I'm lucky, the elastic will start wearing out and they'llno > longer be too tight. Of course then I may need to start wearing a beltaround > them and then that's the only time I would have a choice of "putting" themon > too tightly. Of course, all of this is fiction and I'm just having fun...;-)

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> > Last day before a long weekend always gets me in this funny mood. > > Dave Ericson > MomoBoy online > JDB Racing > > 2_Slow wrote: > > > > Most of them have a well developed sense of humor. They got the jokes > > and thought the post was funny. Some folks just seem to have their > > underwear on a bit too tight, I guess. (Those of you who do not wear > > underwear need not post. More than we wanted to know). > > > > 2_Slow > > > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:P_rL4.2305$[email hidden]... > > > And what about GPL fans who also happen to be fans of GP2, ICR2 and > > N3? > > > > > > MS

>You have never seen me drive at Martinsville :) >I lose the back end all the time on that track i dont think when the back end slides under power in n3 that its because of wheelspin... i think that the model only forces the car to slide because of the weight transer to the outside rear wheel (too much slip angle) on the other hand we all know that wheel spin is modeled in gpl (duh!) try holding the throtle down in n3 when your car starts to spin off of the corner... you cant keep the wheels spinning like in gpl (and a modern cup car makes alot more power, even though its also quite a bit hevier) >The cars are alot more sophisticated and of course they are going to >feel different. IMHO modern stock cars arent very advanced... i think they are basicly using 30 year old (or older) technology in the chassis only with the aid of aero maybe the brm plus 2000 lbs would feel like a modern stock car :)

And what about GPL fans who also happen to be fans of GP2, ICR2 and N3? MS "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8dl98h$m7b$[email hidden]...

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> IMO, most of the trolling done in this newsgroup is done by GPL fans. > They seem to get distraught when the tables are turned. *Shrug* > > 2_Slow > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IppL4.1255$[email hidden]... > > Well I concede that picking this off deja, I might have read your post > out > > of context not having seen the whole thread. > > > > The fact remains that since joining this group, your main > preoccupation > > seems to have been to bash GPL and its "desciples" at every > opportunity. > > Your last post seems to imply that we are all to be pidgeon holed with > the > > same caracature. There are zealots in all walks of life my friend. > Anyway, > > there's no point in further flaming or falling out over such trivia is > > there. > > > > MS > > "2_Slow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8dl3ud$d25$[email hidden]... > > > I'm sorry the subtle humor contained in the post to alt.autos.gm > > > escaped you. > > > > > > 2_Slow > > > > > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:126L4.1283$[email hidden]... > > > > ROTFLOL > > > > > > > > Hey Fred. Stick with what you know ....... That little religious > sect > > > that > > > > you self confessed to belonging to, in alt.autos.gm > > > > > > > > Like driving your 00 Burban. You know the one.... It makes you > feel > > > like a > > > > real he-man when you're behind the wheel. Sorta like Grizzly > Adams. > > > The fact > > > > that you live in the city, not-withstanding. > > > > > > > > >"All, in all, my Burban really makes me feel good about myself. > The > > > fact, > > > > that I'm really a pencil necked >geek, is irrelevant" > > > > > > > > You said it buddy ;-) > > > > > > > > MS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on > during > > > the > > > > > evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a > Monday. > > > > > > > > > > Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, > report > > > > > some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they > are > > > > > totally converted to GPLism. > > > > > > > > > > Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they > cannot > > > > > admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature > of a > > > 1967 > > > > > Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim > > > according to > > > > > the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. > After > > > > > all, God did code it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, > for > > > no > > > > > appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a > bit > > > too > > > > > much", they are well on the road to recovery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2_Slow > > > > > Just say no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

2_Slow <said Some folks just seem to have their underwear on a bit too tight, I guess. (Those of you who do not wear > underwear need not post. More than we wanted to know). > LOL! Matt

I'm in that rare "weird" mood today so... You can't "put" your underwear on too tight, unless you wear a belt around your underwear. You either buy the underwear too tight, or you gain weight after buying the underwear to the point where they get too tight. My case is the latter. However I don't "put" them on that way, it's just the way it is everytime I put mine on. I suppose I could just go buy a whole new set of "bigger" underwear, but it goes against my "wear them till the holes in them get too big" philosophy. If I'm lucky, the elastic will start wearing out and they'll no longer be too tight. Of course then I may need to start wearing a belt around them and then that's the only time I would have a choice of "putting" them on too tightly. Of course, all of this is fiction and I'm just having fun... ;-) Last day before a long weekend always gets me in this funny mood. Dave Ericson MomoBoy online JDB Racing 2_Slow wrote:

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> > Most of them have a well developed sense of humor. They got the jokes > and thought the post was funny. Some folks just seem to have their > underwear on a bit too tight, I guess. (Those of you who do not wear > underwear need not post. More than we wanted to know). > > 2_Slow > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:P_rL4.2305$[email hidden]... > > And what about GPL fans who also happen to be fans of GP2, ICR2 and > N3? > > > > MS

LOL... you're right! I'm glad someone else is thinking like me today... :-) Dave Stephen Ferguson wrote:

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> > You forgot about "shrinkage"... the washing machine type, not the Seinfeld > type. > > Stephen > > David R. Ericson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'm in that rare "weird" mood today so... > > > > You can't "put" your underwear on too tight, unless you wear a belt around > your > > underwear. > > > > You either buy the underwear too tight, or you gain weight after buying > the > > underwear to the point where they get too tight. My case is the latter. > > However I don't "put" them on that way, it's just the way it is everytime > I put > > mine on. I suppose I could just go buy a whole new set of "bigger" > underwear, > > but it goes against my "wear them till the holes in them get too big" > > philosophy. If I'm lucky, the elastic will start wearing out and they'll > no > > longer be too tight. Of course then I may need to start wearing a belt > around > > them and then that's the only time I would have a choice of "putting" them > on > > too tightly. Of course, all of this is fiction and I'm just having fun... > ;-) > > > > Last day before a long weekend always gets me in this funny mood. > > > > Dave Ericson > > MomoBoy online > > JDB Racing > > > > 2_Slow wrote: > > > > > > Most of them have a well developed sense of humor. They got the jokes > > > and thought the post was funny. Some folks just seem to have their > > > underwear on a bit too tight, I guess. (Those of you who do not wear > > > underwear need not post. More than we wanted to know). > > > > > > 2_Slow > > > > > > "m.seery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:P_rL4.2305$[email hidden]... > > > > And what about GPL fans who also happen to be fans of GP2, ICR2 and > > > N3? > > > > > > > > MS

yeah, stiffen the car, not the suspension!! Sudesh Gregor Veble wrote:

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> 2_Slow wrote: > > > > Personally, I think the > > physics in GPL are seriously hosed. Real race cars do not roll that much > > in the corner. Nor are supensions that soft. > > > > These are almost exactly the kind of words I used in the thread 'Is GPL > Arcade?' ! > > For those of you who didn't get it at that point (obviously there are > some!), that was an IRONY. It was targeted towards the people with no > knowledge of race car dynamics who buy an old BMW 3 series, lower the > front, stiffen the suspension all around to the point of rigidity, spray > some signal color over the body and then they have a racecar that makes > you see a doctor for spine problems every once in a while, not to > mention the fact that the chassis shudders just at the thought of > entering only but the smoothest of corners at more than 20kph. > > Just to make it official what my opinion really is, no irony here. Any > racecar that does not rely on aerodynamic grip (like the GPL cars) and > encounters less than perfectly smooth surfaces needs a softer suspension > which does not throw the whole car around on each bump but just the > respective wheel. The suspension stiffnes is for such cars a copromise > between response (harder suspension) and grip (softer suspension). > > -Gregor