Re: GPL-and Allisons new setup theory

On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:57:46 GMT, aws6000 <[email hidden]> wrote in message <8a38tn$qjk$[email hidden]> : >I also think that Alison's Ferrari setups are fantastic... But I've had >people in this newsgroup state that they are fundamentally flawed. >They've also hinted that no serious sim racer would use them. My name is Richard. I'm a serious sim racer & I use Alison's setups <g> The reason that I use them is because Alison's setup approach produces a much more forgiving car that gives me enough confidence to drive fast. Cheers, Richard PS: Transfer her Ferrari setups to the Lotus and you have a dream of a car that is capable of running with all but the very fastest drivers ;-)

What a great article Allison Hine wrote with her Ferrari setup page.I have been away from GPL for 8 months and when i come back I stumble onto this excellent article about car settings in GPL.I find it hard to believe that Dave Krammer and the crew at Papyrus did not know that the excessivly hard to drive cars were due to a screwup in the setups.Allison's Ferrari setups are unbelievably stable and for the first time I can really feel the difference between a loose,neuteral or push setup.It makes me wonder if Papyrus re-releases GPL with Allisons setups as default.Will its sales still be bad! One thing I think Papyrus should do is write another patch that can add a thump sound whenever a tire hits a bumpstop.This way we can hear when it happens when in reality we would feel it.Anyone have comments on this?

My only comments are that I like these ideas!!

I also think that Alison's Ferrari setups are fantastic... But I've had people in this newsgroup state that they are fundamentally flawed. They've also hinted that no serious sim racer would use them. It's opinions like these that turn many people off to GPL and sim racing in general. Apparently anything that makes life easier, is a bad thing in the eyes of the purists. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

: I also think that Alison's Ferrari setups are fantastic... But I've had : people in this newsgroup state that they are fundamentally flawed. : They've also hinted that no serious sim racer would use them. It's : opinions like these that turn many people off to GPL and sim racing in : general. Apparently anything that makes life easier, is a bad thing in : the eyes of the purists. I think that Alison's set ups are absolutely great to learn with. When I practiced a bit more I found that the understeer and weight transfer characteristics did not suit me one bit. Compared with the original 1.0 default set ups or with hotlapper set ups they are superb to learn with. I don't think I would be very happy to go back to them now. It's not that they're a bad thing - it's that once you've learned GPL enough to develop a style of your own you might prefer something else. I loved them at the time and I don't think I'd have continued with GPL if I hadn't found those or something similarly easy to work with. Now I prefer other people's set ups. Particularly Gregor Huttu - who has a fine collection on line for the ferrari with, for many tracks, long race, short race and qual set ups. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Allisons setups are great when you are learning GPL... The more advanced drivers generally race more oversteered and with complete asymectrical setups... I never liked Allisons setups very much, they are much to understeering for my style... --Pierce

And that says it all, really - once you get good enough to tell the difference between setups, you'll have your own preferred style, which you can reflect in your setup. For example, I think Gregor Huttu's Silverstone Lotus setup is great, but I hate his Spa Eagle setup - far too much understeer until the back suddenly breaks away. I much prefer nice-and-slidey oversteer with a slightly less vicious kick. To be honest, I think there's a bit too much attention paid to garage work - once I've got a half-decent setup sorted out, I prefer to spend the time on the circuit. -- David. "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really." (Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh)

> prefer other people's set ups. Particularly Gregor Huttu - who has a > fine collection on line for the ferrari with, for many tracks Where can I find these setups? I tried Alisons site, but it seems to be closed. Anyone know anything? -- Tor Eide, DoD#2178

:> :> prefer other people's set ups. Particularly Gregor Huttu - who has a :> fine collection on line for the ferrari with, for many tracks : Where can I find these setups? http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ Can't vouch for them all but I won my very first online race using his Monaco set up for a league race on Sunday. I'm practicing Zandy now and I'm not sure I'm happy at all with the set up there. As someone else pointed out, garage work is no substitute for track time. I learned far more when I stopped ***ing around with set up and just drove for a long long while. But GPL is so difficult with a really bad set up (like the initial defaults) that I couldn't get consistency at all. : I tried Alisons site, but it seems to be closed. Anyone know anything? Was working this afternoon. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > prefer other people's set ups. Particularly Gregor Huttu - who has a > > fine collection on line for the ferrari with, for many tracks > Where can I find these setups? > I tried Alisons site, but it seems to be closed. Anyone know anything? > -- > Tor Eide, DoD#2178

http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/index.htm http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/index.html BTW, I have never been able to get to terms with either the Eagle or the Lotus despite great effort with the latter. Upon re-reading her comments on the Ferrari-setups I noted that she said "that the Eagle responds extremely well to settings virtually identical to these Ferrari setups". So I decided to have a go. Off to Monza, copied the Ferrarisettings in everything but the gearing and set a pb (1.30.34, don't laugh now you hotshots!) on lap 4! After a few days of minor adjustments (gears mostly) I did a 1.29.60 today! To finally get below 1.30 feels soo good. The Woegers and Huttus of this world of course have completely different ideas, and their times does prove a point, but for us mere humans these setups are certainly worth a try. ?ke

Can't vouch for Greger's road course setup's but his oval setup's ROCK. I took the oval setup's he has and moved them into all the GPL ovals. What fun. It feels like my front wheels just dig into the corners with my back end on the edge of adhesion. Extremely fast. In N3 without his setups I feel like Jeff Gordon without Ray Evernham ;) I wish I knew enough about all this to figure out how to get my N3 cars to handle like the Eagle with his GPL setup's on the ovals. I'm really not even sure if it's possible with the mediocre physics in N3 and all... --David Cook In article <8a3kk8$f6v$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] wrote...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> tei <[email hidden]> wrote: > : Richard G Clegg wrote: > > :> > :> prefer other people's set ups. Particularly Gregor Huttu - who has a > :> fine collection on line for the ferrari with, for many tracks > > : Where can I find these setups? > > http://www.kolumbus.fi/ghuttu/ > > Can't vouch for them all but I won my very first online race using his > Monaco set up for a league race on Sunday. I'm practicing Zandy now and > I'm not sure I'm happy at all with the set up there.

I personally love her Ferrari setups - on my Eagle!!! I'm good at GPL, but not to the point where I really want to change the setups much (if at all)... Last night I raced online in a BRM/Coventry/Honda only game and used a BRM with her setups...it was amazingly stable and not too slow (tho I'm not used to having that many gears on a lever on the wrong side :) compared to the Eagle with slightly (mostly gearing) modified Red Candy... -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA" Skeeter <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What a great article Allison Hine wrote with her Ferrari setup > page.I have been away from GPL for 8 months and when i come back I > stumble onto this excellent article about car settings in GPL.I find > it hard to believe that Dave Krammer and the crew at Papyrus did not > know that the excessivly hard to drive cars were due to a screwup in > the setups.Allison's Ferrari setups are unbelievably stable and for > the first time I can really feel the difference between a > loose,neuteral or push setup.It makes me wonder if Papyrus > re-releases GPL with Allisons setups as default.Will its sales still > be bad! > > One thing I think Papyrus should do is write another patch that > can add a thump sound whenever a tire hits a bumpstop.This way we can > hear when it happens when in reality we would feel it.Anyone have > comments on this? >

Oh, and another thing - depending on the track/setup, you CAN feel the bumpstops hit. Run Dega with a setup that purposely rides on the bumpstops 100% of the time (full stiff is the fastest setup I have right now...however the setup degrades SEVERELY after lap 8 since the tires cook...goes into an extreme push) and then try it again when dropping the bumpstops down a little. The car will start to go all over when it slams onto the stops the first time - and it won't ever come off of them at Dega :) -- Kirk Lane [email hidden] [email hidden] ICQ: 28171652 BRT #187 "Yeah you won't find me I'm going MIA Tonight I'm leaving Going MIA Getting lost in you again Is better than being known" -Foo Fighters, "MIA" Skeeter <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What a great article Allison Hine wrote with her Ferrari setup > page.I have been away from GPL for 8 months and when i come back I > stumble onto this excellent article about car settings in GPL.I find > it hard to believe that Dave Krammer and the crew at Papyrus did not > know that the excessivly hard to drive cars were due to a screwup in > the setups.Allison's Ferrari setups are unbelievably stable and for > the first time I can really feel the difference between a > loose,neuteral or push setup.It makes me wonder if Papyrus > re-releases GPL with Allisons setups as default.Will its sales still > be bad! > > One thing I think Papyrus should do is write another patch that > can add a thump sound whenever a tire hits a bumpstop.This way we can > hear when it happens when in reality we would feel it.Anyone have > comments on this? >

>I also think that Alison's Ferrari setups are fantastic... But I've had >people in this newsgroup state that they are fundamentally flawed. >They've also hinted that no serious sim racer would use them. It's >opinions like these that turn many people off to GPL and sim racing in >general. Apparently anything that makes life easier, is a bad thing in >the eyes of the purists. A car that is easy to drive is not necessarily fast, in fact more often than not the opposite is the case. For that reason people may say a setup is "fundamentally flawed" when you consider that purpose of a racecar is to lap as quickly as possible. Generally the best way to do that is to set the car up to be as quick as possible and for the driver to adapt his/her style to cope. Where that is not possible the setup has to be backed off from the optimum such that the driver can keep the car on the road, and the more erratic or inexperienced the driver, the more the setups are backed off. I've never tried those setups of Alison's in question, but in general I've found Alison's to be a nice compromise between out-and-out speed and predictability. It's just that a setup can be described as fundamentally flawed without necessarily being "bad", it just depends on the driver. Cheers! John

: A car that is easy to drive is not necessarily fast, in fact more : often than not the opposite is the case. For that reason people may : say a setup is "fundamentally flawed" when you consider that purpose : of a racecar is to lap as quickly as possible. (Grin) That's certainly true from my experience. I'm not good enough at GPL to muck about with set up yet. But when I tried it, I spent ages making a set up more and more comfortable. Eventually I developed something that was 2 seconds off my normal pace at Monza - but boy was I consistent with it. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Quoted text (16 lines)

> : A car that is easy to drive is not necessarily fast, in fact more > : often than not the opposite is the case. For that reason people may > : say a setup is "fundamentally flawed" when you consider that purpose > : of a racecar is to lap as quickly as possible. > (Grin) That's certainly true from my experience. I'm not good enough > at GPL to muck about with set up yet. But when I tried it, I spent ages > making a set up more and more comfortable. Eventually I developed > something that was 2 seconds off my normal pace at Monza - but boy was I > consistent with it. > -- > Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving > Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group > Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York > www: [link lost in import]

Funny, I had the more or less opposite experience. There are setups that are hard to drive but faster, but nothing that would gain more than half a second off my time, and I would never be able to drive more than a few laps without spinning or doing something else to set me back a few seconds. For example, my PB at Glen is something slightly below 1.06 in a Ferrari, but with my most comfortable race setup I can do consistent 1.06.50. I tend to use the consistent one all the time now, even for qualifying (I just need to take out some fuel), as it is far more enjoyable and predictable.