*JOYSTICK WISH LIST SURVEY*

If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to you. Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: . . . If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. -Rich We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow for updated information. -- Richard Rice ---------------------------------------------- JAG Technologies http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

I have at present, seven, yes seven, different joysticks in my computer room, that I have to chop & change as I change games. 2 x Digital Joysticks (2-button) for games like Sensible Soccer, Zool, and a couple of platform games. 2 x Analogue Joysticks (2-button) for games like X-Wing, Actua Soccer, NHL Hockey) 2 x Joy Pads (4-button) for games like Pitfall 95, and FX Fighter. 1 x Flightstick (2 button + Trigger) for the flight Sims. Now I have aquired these over time, but I still think that it's a bit excessive, but even with all of those, I still have to play Mechwarrior 2 on the Keyboard!! I can understand that there has to be two different types of joystick (Digital / Analogue), but I would like to see one that could be easily programmed, and that has plenty of buttons. I used to have a neat joystick interface on my ZX Spectrum, that allowed me to map the Keysboard to any thing on the Joystick (Can't remember what it was called though) I don't know of anything like that on the PC. My Dream Joystick would be the following : Analogue stick Joystick 10+ Configurable Buttons Thumb Control HUD Hat control Thingy (Or Whatever they are called) Easily configurable, to map to any key on the keyboard. Inexpensive. Digital Joystick 6+ Buttons. Sturdy Shaft (Oo-er!) Again, Easily Configurable. Inexpensive. What I would l

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>We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >-Rich >We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >for updated information. >-- >Richard Rice >---------------------------------------------- >JAG Technologies >http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

Make sure that the hat switch doesn't have to multiplex with the fire buttons! I've tried a few sticks like that and they drive me nuts! (I think it's the "CH Flightstick Pro" type setup.) MOST IMPORTANT IN MY MIND-->>> Make the hat switch SOLID!!! No flimsy cheap plastic stem. Use some sort of metal with a base that won't break. I've had 4 sticks die due to broken hats. I use the hat to slide/accel/decel in decent -- it takes some stress. Hats are not just for view changes anymore. Fire buttons should be easily accessible with free fingers. You should not have to use the same finger for multiple buttons. (Thrustmaster did this pretty well with the FCS and XL -- a trigger and "pinky" button allow you to use two different ones at once. Perhaps a third button on the shaft?) Don't make the stick too short (like the Gravis Thunderbird). If you have a throttle, perhaps have an option/switch to make it spring-centered. (Do others want this? It would be nice to be able to "feel" where the center position is.) HEAVY base, and/or suction cups. -- Scott

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> >If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail > >it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end > >joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. > >With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your > >use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. > >Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to > >hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to > >you. > >Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also > >send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. > >Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: > >. > >. > >. > >If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would > >it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have at present, seven, yes seven, different joysticks in my > computer room, that I have to chop & change as I change games. > 2 x Digital Joysticks (2-button) for games like Sensible Soccer, > Zool, and a couple of platform games. > 2 x Analogue Joysticks (2-button) for games like X-Wing, Actua > Soccer, NHL Hockey) > 2 x Joy Pads (4-button) for games like Pitfall 95, and > FX Fighter. > 1 x Flightstick (2 button + Trigger) for the flight Sims. > Now I have aquired these over time, but I still think that it's a bit > excessive, but even with all of those, I still have to play > Mechwarrior 2 on the Keyboard!! > I can understand that there has to be two different types of joystick > (Digital / Analogue), but I would like to see one that could be easily > programmed, and that has plenty of buttons. I used to have a neat > joystick interface on my ZX Spectrum, that allowed me to map the > Keysboard to any thing on the Joystick (Can't remember what it was > called though) I don't know of anything like that on the PC. > My Dream Joystick would be the following : > Analogue stick Joystick > 10+ Configurable Buttons > Thumb Control HUD Hat control Thingy (Or Whatever they are called) > Easily configurable, to map to any key on the keyboard. > Inexpensive. > Digital Joystick > 6+ Buttons. > Sturdy Shaft (Oo-er!) > Again, Easily Configurable. > Inexpensive. > What I would l > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or > >benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. > >-Rich > >We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow > >for updated information. > >-- > >Richard Rice > >---------------------------------------------- > >JAG Technologies > >http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

-- Scott Stanchfield McCabe & Associates -- Columbia, Maryland (These are not necessarily the opinions of McCabe & Associates) Visit McCabe & Associates at http://www.mccabe.com

I would suggest that really all you need is 2 controllers at all. The MS Sidewinder 3D Pro handles just about everything I play from Mech2 to ATF....as for sports games A four button gravis pad does quite nicely and is great for Street Fighter II tournament edition. -Mitch

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>>If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail >>it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end >>joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. >>With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your >>use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. >>Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to >>hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to >>you. >>Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also >>send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. >>Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: >>. >>. >>. >>If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >>it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain

why) >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- -

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>I have at present, seven, yes seven, different joysticks in my >computer room, that I have to chop & change as I change games. >2 x Digital Joysticks (2-button) for games like Sensible Soccer, >Zool, and a couple of platform games. >2 x Analogue Joysticks (2-button) for games like X-Wing, Actua >Soccer, NHL Hockey) >2 x Joy Pads (4-button) for games like Pitfall 95, and >FX Fighter. >1 x Flightstick (2 button + Trigger) for the flight Sims. >Now I have aquired these over time, but I still think that it's a bit >excessive, but even with all of those, I still have to play >Mechwarrior 2 on the Keyboard!! >I can understand that there has to be two different types of joystick >(Digital / Analogue), but I would like to see one that could be easily >programmed, and that has plenty of buttons. I used to have a neat >joystick interface on my ZX Spectrum, that allowed me to map the >Keysboard to any thing on the Joystick (Can't remember what it was >called though) I don't know of anything like that on the PC. >My Dream Joystick would be the following : >Analogue stick Joystick >10+ Configurable Buttons >Thumb Control HUD Hat control Thingy (Or Whatever they are called) >Easily configurable, to map to any key on the keyboard. >Inexpensive. >Digital Joystick >6+ Buttons. >Sturdy Shaft (Oo-er!) >Again, Easily Configurable. >Inexpensive. >What I would l >>---------------------------------------------------------------------

- >>We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >>benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >>-Rich >>We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >>for updated information. >>-- >>Richard Rice >>---------------------------------------------- >>JAG Technologies >>http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

I've tried a few joysticks but remain with mouse+keybd for Doom/Descent etc. The reason being that with ANY joystick out there I still have to use the keyboard to control movement. It would be fine if I only had to use the keybd to set things (weapons, etc...). Don't know what the real difference is between analog and digital so I can't comment there. But: 3D rotation like the MS Sidwinder seems truly innovative. More buttons for the fingers! Remember the old Colecovision "joything" that had a different button for each of 4 fingers? That would be great! Perhaps just three though. How about a shape-fit base for my other hand! So then I'd just grab on to this thing and have TOTAL control. After all, that's what we really want, no? DT

>I would suggest that really all you need is 2 controllers at all. The >MS Sidewinder 3D Pro handles just about everything I play from Mech2 to >ATF....as for sports games A four button gravis pad does quite nicely >and is great for Street Fighter II tournament edition. >-Mitch The only problem with the Sidewinder is that sometimes the controls don't match their descriptions (ie in MW2, I set zoom to be hat up and zoom out to be hat down, no matter what I try, zoom in is hat down and zoom out is hat up...lame) and it's not programmable. I'd really like to be able to set the throttle switch to be forward/backward in Descent, and try to minimize keyboard use. Ah well. Leave it to MS. Warren -- __________________________________________________________________________ Hukt on foniks werked fer me!

I guess the joystick depends alot o the game. Woth MW2 I fing using the mouse for torso twisting and firing quite good, while using the keyboard for other stuff. Except for annoying hand switches... For most other games, I like my Suncom SFX gamepad. I hate to sound like an adverti***t, but if you haven't seen it you should check it out. It's got 8 buttons and you can program them all to emulate keyboard strokes, with memory for 4 groups of settings. It's great for side-view fighters like MK3, sports games, and 3D shooters like Descent. With all those buttons, you rarely need the keyboard. Greg

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>I've tried a few joysticks but remain with mouse+keybd for Doom/Descent etc. The reason being that with ANY >joystick out there I still have to use the keyboard to control movement. It would be fine if I only had to use the >keybd to set things (weapons, etc...). >Don't know what the real difference is between analog and digital so I can't comment there. But: >3D rotation like the MS Sidwinder seems truly innovative. >More buttons for the fingers! Remember the old Colecovision "joything" that had a different button for each of 4 >fingers? That would be great! Perhaps just three though. >How about a shape-fit base for my other hand! So then I'd just grab on to this thing and have TOTAL control. After >all, that's what we really want, no? >DT

>If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, as starters, a joystick that does not jitter or drift. Pots (analog or otherwise) that have a minimum lifespan of 3 years. In a drawing program, I want to be able to draw and perfect square (i.e. no dots all over the place). Throw in some programmible buttons and 8-way hats and I'll pay ya $200 today's dollars. Leo

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>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >-Rich >We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >for updated information. >-- >Richard Rice >---------------------------------------------- >JAG Technologies >http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) I currently have a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro. I am very satisfied with it, with the following exceptions: I wish it had an adjustable non linear range. I find it way to sensitive in the center, I wish it was a little less so. Would make aiming easier. (I think) I also wish it had more tension. And the further out it goes the harder it should resist. Ans last I wish the throttle and twist controls were definable. Neither goes quite to the game's limit. > JAG Technologies > http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

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> I guess the joystick depends alot o the game. Woth MW2 I fing >using the mouse for torso twisting and firing quite good, while using >the keyboard for other stuff. Except for annoying hand switches... > For most other games, I like my Suncom SFX gamepad. I hate to >sound like an adverti***t, but if you haven't seen it you should >check it out. It's got 8 buttons and you can program them all to >emulate keyboard strokes, with memory for 4 groups of settings. It's >great for side-view fighters like MK3, sports games, and 3D shooters >like Descent. With all those buttons, you rarely need the keyboard. >Greg

And the Suncom series are the analog version of this. Gotta love the ease of programming of these things... if only they could use better pots. And an 8-way hat :) Nerf

I own 4 joysticks, 2 game pads, a throttle, and a t1 driving system. The best control combination, by far, are the Suncom Talon and a CH pro throttle. The only thing that comes close is the Thrustmaster series. The reason I didn't go with the Thrustmaster sticks, is that my sticks are abused. I have a two and four year old with no concept of "take it easy". This stick and throttle are VERY solidly constructed. The Suncom Talon has four buttons and two hats. These are all programmable, and they have four different user definable presets that you can change on the fly, even in the middle of the game, and finally a normal joystick mode. The ProThrottle has four buttons, and four 4 direction hats. All of these are user definable with ANY key on the keyboard, or macro. The only limit to the size of the macro is the memory in the throttle (I think this is 1KB). My current Descent 2 config only uses about 20% of the mem in the throttle and I have every button defined. The throttle has unlimited configs (they are stored as small files) that are loaded up before the start of a game. The grand total is 6 4-way hats, and 8 buttons of programmable power. Kev P.S. Another relatively cheap tip if you have a chair with arm rests. I have built a small platform on each of my chairs armrests (a friend of mine calls them wings). My stick rests on the right and my throttle on the left. I attached these sticks to the platforms with velcro. I can sit in the chair (feet up :) ), and use my sticks with both arms on the armrests. Now if I could just convince my wife to feed me while I play I would never have to leave my chair. My $.02.

Dear Rich & JAG Tech: : it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) : ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have had: ThrustMaster WCS II FCS I THX(sp? It's like FCS but looks more like CH Pro) Gravis Analog Advanced CH FlightStick Pro Gravis Gamepad Street Fighter pad Currently holding: ThrustMaster TQS + FLCS + RCS IMHO today's games highly demand at lesat two joysticks, more precisely, joystick and throttle. If one absoultely can only afford/have one, then it's the joystick. Due to the complex nature of PC game, and increasing in PC hardware and software technology, the joystick must be be programmable. I am not sure if user friendly is that big of a deal. For myself, been a *** flight simmer, I am willing to put up with lost of $ and effort to come up with the best settings, and ThrustMaster's coding worked just fine with me. Though I sometimes spend more time programming (due to lack of good sticks until I got TQS & RCS), then I play certain games. Enough about myself, as far as I can see improvement: 1) Long lasting life, OR excellent customer service. TM belongs to the second group, as my F16FLCS has broekn its base ring in a year, and I have heard numerous smilar stories from others. However, their unmatched customer service is unmatched, when you can reach them that is. My email to them went unanswered for like few times, until I managed to reach them via WEB. But once I did, they were great. Free replacement and S/H. Similar thing happend to a friend of mine too. At any rate, I wish their things could last longer. After all, I am only 5'7" and weighs in 110lbs range so the possiblity of me "cranking" down the joystick is pretty slim. 2) Types for various people: There're differnet people out there, and some just want a cheap, durable, and carries moderate features for games, while there're others like me who are really hard core flight simmemers and won't settle for anythign less than absoulte, ok, maybe onte absoulte, but as close as possilbe realism. That means throttle, stick, rudder, and possilbely virtual I/O glaesses,***pit/mount, vibration vests, voice-control devices, etc. One thing I have noticed that is the FCS fited my hand very well, but I have heard others complaining it's bit small; then when I got FLCS it's almost too big, I'd have a hard time to reach both the plinky button and the top hat or thumb buttons, yet I heard others claiming the "larger size is definatley more fitting." While I can see it's not econmic for a company producing joystick for various sizes, the fact can't be changed that some people would find certain stick more fitting than others. I wish we have those "liquid metal" these days to make joystick customer fit...enough draems. Also, notice the main point of this is that we can never satisfy everybody with a single joystick. So either we are going for a compromise, or we need have different models for various needs, which seem to be what CH is doing currently. 3) Here is the real issues: buttons. How many is enough? Where do you want them? I guess there's no true answer. However, for those "realism" people, it never hurts to copy the real military device(assume they don't sue for copy rights). I mean, I am still wondering if my F16FLCS/TQS are REALLY what Block 50 F16C's are like, and I'd love to konw just exactly are each button for on the real plane so I can program my f16 sims, and possilbe rest to the identical functions. One intresting thing: from footage I have seen on PBS shows, seems all the non F16 fighters uses stick simlar to SunCom sticks, while F16's stick was very unique on its own with joystick button setup, physical shape, and its location (on the side). So on one hand, it never hurts to just copy the military model thus achiving "true realism". While on the other hand, we can also be creative and make our own, and here is all the posslbities come from. Even with my current set up, I feel I am few button short at times for latest games such as EF2000 or ATF. Yeah yeah, I know, I shouldn't even dreaming about program EVERYTHING on them and achieve absoute HOTAS. But you know, that's what joystick are kind for. And even if I just go for combat keys they aren't enough in the case of EF2k. Yet with FLCS it seem we are apporachign to the limit of human fingers. Don't you wish God made us having 10 fingers on each hand? Anyway, what I was thinking was making some "panels" just like in real planes. You know, the dials, and buttons and so on that actually controls things like communications, HUD modes, landing gears, radio freqs(some of those are built into today's military HOTAS system). Etc, this way we can still achieve semi-HOTAS, while not have to worry about adding more buttons/switchs so we can fit all keys in the stick. 4) Price is not that of a big issue to me. I like many other FLCS/other TM product owners feels they worth every single $. Sure, they cost me an arm and leg, esp consider many of us are college students, squeezing every penny to just paying off our tution bills. But then for the uncompared expereince and with either superior durablity or good service, we can expect it to actually LAST many years, after our favorite games are obslete/bored, we'd still using them for other things...right now I am try to make my TM hardware comptabilty with the MUX I am playing... :) 5) Oh, here is a REAL big thing: upgradabilty. Making things modular and easy to change. Ie. the FLCS that I mentioned had the base ring broke, it took me THREE hours to figure out how to install the damn thing, and I am still not sure if I done it rihgt or not. And I am an Engineer! Well, an EE student anyway, and I thought I was smart :) But I found out I couldn't just disaemble the stick since all the wires are connected, nor can I install the base ring from its rectangular base. So the only option came down to from top...and I figured I out that I could pull those buttons/switchs off the FLCS, and the next 2 hrs I was having a hell of a time try to figure out if it really takes that much effort to press and BEND The ring in order to fit it down there. Ohmigod, I was so afraid I'd brake things that I was totaly in angony. Then when dinner was cold I finally couldnt' take it anymore and went for it...and mind you, even with the determination I had it wasn't easy as the F16 handle base was rather odd shaped and the ring can go in either way, by tilting forward or back, and I tilt it forward and managed to littery squeeze it in. Anywya, back to modular: TM sticks are known to have different version of chips. (In fact the problem of mine and lot people's TQS RNG/ANT button can NOT generate RAW scan codes right now wi the chips we have). Anyway, if the joysticks are designed in such an way that makes future upgrade possible, so you can just install a new upper handle, or a new chip so you get those extra buttons, or those new key features (I want my RNG/ANT able to be type 3 devices, and able to have key toggle like /H /T etc!). OK, I think that about to sum it up. Sorry to make it so long folks :) But like Sun-Tze says "More is always betteter than less" :) Ming "Falcon" Liu

I have a basic CH Flightstick (not even a pro). I like it, but the *only* reason I haven't bought a newer, fancier stick is that virtually NONE of them are for lefthanders (me). The only lefty stick I've seen (can't remember which one) didn't seem very good (control positions sucked). The funny thing is, most (not all) joystick companies are NOT doing their research, since it is estimates that more than 50% of joystick users are lefthanded (much higher than the typical 10% lefties in the general population). So, by only making only a right-handed stick, you're effectively reducing your potential sales, buy up to 50% in the worst case. What stick makers need to do is create a control array that is switchable between left and right, without having to buy two different sticks. I looked at the Microsoft stick (with three of my lefty friends), and we noticed that it wouldn't take all that much to re-design the controls so that sculpted handle could be exchanged out for a lefty one, without any change to the buttons, switches, or the base unit. There's my two left cents! Doug.

:>t :>joystick interface on my ZX Spectrum, that allowed me to map the :>Keysboard to any thing on the Joystick (Can't remember what it was :>called though) I don't know of anything like that on the PC. The Gravis Pheonix, Firebird ones are keyboard mappable. 24 and 17 buttons respectively. Jack -- Jack Christensen I throw rocks through windows!

I have tried many joysticks. The best one is Sidewinder Pro from Microsoft. Some flaws I can say that it is too light in weight, Stick response is not heavy enough. If you want some idea on steering wheel, I like T2 and the only thing I want more is active power response system. Regards, Kenny Law

All you guys replying here dont have e mail or cant read? Just wondering..

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>If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail >it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end >joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. >With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your >use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. >Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to >hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to >you. >Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also >send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. >Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: >. >. >. >If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >-Rich >We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >for updated information. >-- >Richard Rice >---------------------------------------------- >JAG Technologies >http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

-- _.-`-._www.dreamscape.com/noyzrulz_.-`-._

You know that's the one I have (works great) and I went out and got the sidewinder 3d and didn't see the big deal, I thought it was a peice of junk (I brought it back) along with the other 20 I looked at. When CH makes one with a GOOD hat and properly positioned buttons I will get it but there is nothing out there right now I would want.

>The funny thing is, most (not all) joystick companies are NOT doing their >research, since it is estimates that more than 50% of joystick users are >lefthanded (much higher than the typical 10% lefties in the general >population). So, by only making only a right-handed stick, you're >effectively reducing your potential sales, buy up to 50% in the worst case. *boggle* I'm a lefty, and I know several others who use sticks, and to a man, we all fly right handed. Training from old video games eh? Those were almost all right-hand-control, and its what I fly best at. Thinking about it, I'd be really clumsy trying to fly left handed. -- "I accept" "To accept is to yield" "To yield is to allow oncoming traffic the right of way"

>>>If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >>>it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anybody else tried the Spaceball Avenger? 6 degrees of freedom input device + 6 buttons.. It is a strain gauge, the ball barely moves, just senses force. The assembly is held in the right hand, where the thumb and forefinger access all the buttons.. the left hand grips the "ball".. Connects to a serial port, not the joystick port.. uses own drivers.. works with DI, D2 (registered), not the shareware, doom, etc.. Pull ball out to move forward, pull back to reverse, lift ball up to float up, push down to float down. THe ball can be twisted to "roll" on each of the three axis. (yaw, pitch and roll). Full proportional control on each input.. -511 to +511 range. All channels are independent and can be active at once.. One can fly forward quickly, slide slowly left, roll, descend, and fire all at the same time.. http://www.spacetec.com around $129 the last time I looked.. Early ones had some mfgr defects and the strain elements broke.. newer ones are much better.. --ghg http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu

uh...Tim...er...reading doesn't seem to be their problem.... K : All you guys replying here dont have e mail or cant read? Just : wondering.. : >If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail : >it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end (some lines from the original post deleted) : > : >Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also : >send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. : >

> If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would > it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) I like the solid feel and response of digital arcade joysticks, but I admit that analog control would be nice in certain situations. Don't you ever find yourself pressing a digital stick/pad/key harder instinctively trying to get more performance out of your on screen alter-ego, despite the fact that you KNOW it won't actually happen? How about having a stick that FEELS like a stiff-digital stick, but was actually analog and where a very hard pressure would increase the value slightly, actually letting you give more "english" to your play? You could do that with the buttons too, having sensitivity for harder or faster taps, or changes in pressure while the button is held (good for throttle and break in racing games!) But this should be further pressure at the end of the button's throw, like the stick, not just mushy buttons like Namco's NeGcon for playstation. You should really have to PUSH it! You might want to look at the MIDI instrument control standard for ideas as to how such an interface might be implemented, in particular the messages for Key On and Key Off which contain velocity, and Aftertouch control messages. Since most PC sound cards already have Joystick ports that double as MIDI-I/O ports, there might already be an easy interface for this type of data... Oh, just remember... PC people are used to keyboard and need WAY TOO MANY BUTTONS. The more buttons you have, the better... Take care.

: >>If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would : >>it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) : >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- What people keep refering to a joystick is really a flight stick (CH, ThrustMaster, MS Sidewinder, ect....) There isn't any quality JOYSTICK (I'm talking like ones at the arcade like on the Street Fighter or MK3, or KI, ect...) The market is already flooded with FLIGHT STICK, but not joystick, a good one with solid base, atleast six buttons. With all the sports games (NBA Live, Football, FIFA 96, ect...) and all the fighting games coming to the PC I'm suprise one of these companies thought of it (I guess they should hire me huh ;).) There are maybe 2 decent pads out there (Suncom, and Gravis Grip system) and that's it, they're good, but that's not the same as a good Joystick for the arcade feel (since many arcade type games are coming to the PC). wishfull thinking(?): On any type, Joystick, flight stick, gamepads, the weird 3d ball thing, whatever, if anyone can put one out with good tactile feedback (note I said good not the miserable attemp of the Logictech ***man) would be great, I bet the first one coming out would be selling like hot cakes. : >I have a basic CH Flightstick (not even a pro). I like it, but the *only* : >reason I haven't bought a newer, fancier stick is that virtually NONE of them : >are for lefthanders (me). The only lefty stick I've seen (can't remember : >which one) didn't seem very good (control positions sucked). : You know that's the one I have (works great) and I went out and got the : sidewinder 3d and didn't see the big deal, I thought it was a peice of junk (I : brought it back) along with the other 20 I looked at. When CH makes one with : a GOOD hat and properly positioned buttons I will get it but there is nothing : out there right now I would want.

the feedback should reflect the action. and they're just not saying anything) -- ********************************* ***Deej Web Productions [link lost in import: /~djb/***deej/] "It's the least I could do. I know, I checked."

Two words to all you gamers out there: Tactile Feedback and I don't mean like that cheesy piece of ***Logictech ***man of few years ago. Something cool, the way the gun on Terminator2 in the arcade. Something that give ya a big jerk if you shoot a rocket laucher or shotgun, and rapid little one for machine gun. the feedback should reflect the action. Think of the possibility guys (and girls, if any out there on this discussion). : > If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would : > it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) : I like the solid feel and response of digital arcade joysticks, but I admit that analog control would be : nice in certain situations. Don't you ever find yourself pressing a digital stick/pad/key harder : instinctively trying to get more performance out of your on screen alter-ego, despite the fact that you : KNOW it won't actually happen? How about having a stick that FEELS like a stiff-digital stick, but was : actually analog and where a very hard pressure would increase the value slightly, actually letting you give : more "english" to your play? : You could do that with the buttons too, having sensitivity for harder or faster taps, or changes in pressure : while the button is held (good for throttle and break in racing games!) But this should be further pressure : at the end of the button's throw, like the stick, not just mushy buttons like Namco's NeGcon for : playstation. You should really have to PUSH it! : You might want to look at the MIDI instrument control standard for ideas as to how such an interface might : be implemented, in particular the messages for Key On and Key Off which contain velocity, and Aftertouch : control messages. Since most PC sound cards already have Joystick ports that double as MIDI-I/O ports, there : might already be an easy interface for this type of data... : Oh, just remember... PC people are used to keyboard and need WAY TOO MANY BUTTONS. The more buttons you : have, the better... : Take care.

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>-- >------------------------------------------------------------ > || Come ride The River ------- http://www.theriver.com/ || >------------------------------------------------------------ >> If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail >> it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end >> joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. >> With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your >> use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. >> Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to >> hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to >> you. >> Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also >> send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. >> Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: >> . >> . >> . >> If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >> it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------> We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >> benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >> -Rich >> We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >> for updated information. >> -- >> Richard Rice >> ---------------------------------------------- >> JAG Technologies >> http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary] >I love my Wingman Extreme I dont care about the bad rap about it I just >adore it!!!!

I second that. The only way they could make it better would be to make it digital or optical(very similar to Sidewinder), programmable, and DirectInput compatible. Other than that, keep the looks and feel exactly the same. Hopefully the new Wingman Warrior will be what I'm looking for. Now if Logitech would make a throttle companion to the Wingman Extreme at about the same price. :) Tommy McClain

Hmmm, you must then be "a right handed person trapped in a lefty body"! *grin* I know a few quasi-lefties; these are people who write with their left hands, but do many other things as righties (traitors! ;) ). When I was young, I tried to bat (baseball) right handed because it felt better than doing it left handed. Basically, I sucked! Once I learned how to bat left handed (the way I should do it), I was much much better at it (I only suck a bit, now). About the only thing I do right handed is play the guitar, because I can't be bothered to re-string the suckers for lefthanded playing. You guessed it, I suck at guitar too! Hmmm, funny thing, I *do* mouse right handed, but it doesn't take much dexterity to drag a mouse around the table or click buttons. Doug.

Just a thought, I don't think I've ever heard of a left-handed F-16, F14, or F15. They seem to all be right handed models. Jim >I have a basic CH Flightstick (not even a pro). I like it, but the *only* >reason I haven't bought a newer, fancier stick is that virtually NONE of them >are for lefthanders (me). >Doug.

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>>The funny thing is, most (not all) joystick companies are NOT doing their >>research, since it is estimates that more than 50% of joystick users are >>lefthanded (much higher than the typical 10% lefties in the general >>population). So, by only making only a right-handed stick, you're >>effectively reducing your potential sales, buy up to 50% in the worst case. >*boggle* I'm a lefty, and I know several others who use sticks, and to a >man, we all fly right handed. Training from old video games eh? Those >were almost all right-hand-control, and its what I fly best at. >Thinking about it, I'd be really clumsy trying to fly left handed.

I too am left-handed, and used to play games left handed on C64. But, when I bought my first PC joystick (Gravis), it could not really be used with left hand. So I started to practice playing right-handed. It was much easier than I had thought, and nowadays I just can't use stick with my left hand. I also use mouse right-handed, I think this is because everywhere I go the mouse is always on the right side of the keyboard. I think I used to move it on the left side, but it became too cumbersome, so it was easier to start mousing right-handed. Try playing right-handed, it's not so difficult as it would seem at first. I'm not ambidextrous or anything like that. The world is just so much designed for right-handers, that us lefties have to use our right hand much more than right-handers have to use their left one. Samppa -- See my homepage for Formula One Shadow Series: http://www.hut.fi/~tax/ "Why is the qualification limit 107 percent? Why can't it be an even number like 108 or 100 percent?" - Matti Kyllonen during qualifying in Melbourne

Two of my Wingmans broke down because the fire-button was not designed for a muscled leftie. After a complain fax Logitech send me an Extreme for free ! This one is still running

Hai, I bought the Microsoft Sidewinder 3Dpro a couple of months ago, after demolishing two Wingmans. The fire-button of the Wingman was not constructed for a lefty with muscles. The Sidewinder however doesn't work for DOS-based games running under Windows95. There is a timing problem, Origin confirmed this. Where are the joysticks for lefties,

> Just a thought, I don't think I've ever heard of a left-handed F-16, > F14, or F15. They seem to all be right handed models. > Jim Yeah, I can see it now, it's the middle of the war, and there's a bunch of right handed pilots, and all they have left is left handed airplanes. Can you imagine how STUPID that would be? All military planes are designed for right handed control flight. This is because a majority of people are right handed. If you want to be a fighter pilot, you had better learn to be right handed. Thus, all flightsticks, which are based off of military jet controllers, are designed for right-handers, to be realistic. It sure would be nice to have a left handed wingman extreme tho. yes, I'm left handed. I still manage to do some pretty good asskicking in games like Descent tho. even with my cheap-ass 2 button lamerstick. Hey, you do with what you can. -- Adrian Drake (Tremor) http://prozac.cwru.edu/adrian/

McFadyen) writes:

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>>The funny thing is, most (not all) joystick companies are NOT doing >>their research, since it is estimates that more than 50% of joystick >>users are lefthanded (much higher than the typical 10% lefties in the >>general population). So, by only making only a right-handed stick, >>you're effectively reducing your potential sales, buy up to 50% in >>the worst case. >*boggle* I'm a lefty, and I know several others who use sticks, and to >a man, we all fly right handed. Training from old video games eh? >Those were almost all right-hand-control, and its what I fly best at.

I do this, also. I bought Thrustmaster's FCS and WCS specifically for MW2, then eventually 'learned' how to fly the Pyro-GX right-handed. It took about 3 weeks to get the hang of it, but once I did, I started takin' names. -- KC8BEX "Don't tell me what I don't want to know. I'll tell you what I don't want to know, and I'll tell you when I don't want to know it."

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>>If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >>it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >I have a basic CH Flightstick (not even a pro). I like it, but the *only* >reason I haven't bought a newer, fancier stick is that virtually NONE of them >are for lefthanders (me). The only lefty stick I've seen (can't remember >which one) didn't seem very good (control positions sucked). >The funny thing is, most (not all) joystick companies are NOT doing their >research, since it is estimates that more than 50% of joystick users are >lefthanded (much higher than the typical 10% lefties in the general >population). So, by only making only a right-handed stick, you're >effectively reducing your potential sales, buy up to 50% in the worst case.

Wow do you remember where you saw this statistic? If really true that extraordinary. I am also a lefty, but have an additional problem. My son who is right handed enjoys playing games. A left or right handed stick is not enough. We need a left *and* right handed stick. We were using the Flitestick CH which is neutral handed. We just bought a MS Sidewinder. This serves pretty well. I just have to "palm" the two side buttons, which are nearly flush with the stick on the left side. Niether of us liked the other sticks that have all the buttons on the top. The angle felt wrong for our thumbs. Too forced back. - Gary Dyrkacz -

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> > Just a thought, I don't think I've ever heard of a left-handed F-16, > > F14, or F15. They seem to all be right handed models. > > Jim > Yeah, I can see it now, it's the middle of the war, and there's a bunch of > right handed pilots, and all they have left is left handed airplanes. Can you > imagine how STUPID that would be? > All military planes are designed for right handed control flight. This is because > a majority of people are right handed. If you want to be a fighter pilot, you > had better learn to be right handed. Thus, all flightsticks, which are based off > of military jet controllers, are designed for right-handers, to be realistic. > It sure would be nice to have a left handed wingman extreme tho. yes, I'm left > handed. I still manage to do some pretty good asskicking in games like Descent tho. > even with my cheap-ass 2 button lamerstick. Hey, you do with what you can. > -- > Adrian Drake (Tremor) > http://prozac.cwru.edu/adrian/

O.K, How about the captain of an Airbus Axxx, he's got the yoke on the left. I suppose that will rule him out for flying an F16 if there's a pilot shortage!!

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>> I guess the joystick depends alot o the game. Woth MW2 I fing >>using the mouse for torso twisting and firing quite good, while using >>the keyboard for other stuff. Except for annoying hand switches... >> For most other games, I like my Suncom SFX gamepad. I hate to >>sound like an adverti***t, but if you haven't seen it you should >>check it out. It's got 8 buttons and you can program them all to >>emulate keyboard strokes, with memory for 4 groups of settings. It's >>great for side-view fighters like MK3, sports games, and 3D shooters >>like Descent. With all those buttons, you rarely need the keyboard. >>Greg

Huh, huh. He's got 8 buttons and he thinks he's got a lot! 8-) I played Tie Fighter (cool game!) with a friend's Flightstick Pro and CH Throttle (regular). Four buttons and a 4-way switch on the FS Pro and 12 total programmable buttons/switch-positions on the throttle. It was cool, but it wasn't enough for me. I got the FS Pro, but waited for the Pro Throttle instead (20 buttons/switch-positions on the throttle plus it can program the FS Pro, too, plus a digital throttle (can do keys) so it can be used in games that don't use an analog throttle). It still isn't *quite* enough (there are just too many keys that you need to use, so you have to decide which ones you can afford to have to reach to the keyboard for). I think I need two of the FS Pro's buttons to be programable 4-way switches instead! (Actually, the CH Products F-16 Fighterstick would give you four 4-way switches, but I'm used to the design of their Flightstick Pro.) -Rob Parker

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>If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail >it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end >joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. >With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your >use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. >Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to >hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to >you. >Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also >send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. >Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: >. >. >. >If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've gone through several type of joysticksin the past, but the one(s) I've had most recently are the Thrustmaster WCS/FCS combo. While this combination works great, the long and arduous task of programming becomes a chore that I usually end up skipping and just using another one that's 'close enough'. Recently I thought I found a serious competitor in the form of the Talon F-15E stick from Suncom. I saw it on sale and picked one up, hoping to be able to use the 'standard 4 button override' feature to allow me to program it's buttons through the WCS II. I was happy to find that this worked, but it left the 2 4-way hats out of the picture. I was forced to use the built-in ,VERY easy programming functions for these, which only gave me 4 program slots. I also found out something important, which wasn't mentioned anywhere on the box, you CAN'T PROGRAM SHIFTED, CTRL'd, or ALT'd key strokes into the thing. The one feature I do like about it is the gimbal mechanism, which provides the same tension in all directions, instead of adding X&Y in the diagonal. So my ideal stick would be an analog stick, preferably modeled after a real fighter control. It would have AT LEAST two view hats, for static views and for panning 'virtual' views, and about 6-10 buttons. A nice feature would be an 'analog 4 button, 1 hat' mode that could be toggled on and off easily while in the 'use' configuration. It would either have ALOT of memory on it (1 meg??), or have a very unobtrusive, quick download program. The programming interface should be Win95 or some kind of windowing shell, with drag-and-drop WYSIWYG capabilities. And I suspect a street price of about a hundred bucks would surely lure me in. Thanks for letting me ramble, I have calouses from switching my 'Joy Switch' constantly. _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ | |___| |_ _ _ / _ \ _ _ __ _| (_) |_ _ _ | |_| / _ \ ' \| ' \ | (_) | || / _` | | | _| || | \___/\___/_||_|_||_| \__\_\\_,_\__,_|_|_|\__|\_, |

The Sidewinder Pro's hat is unresponsive otherwise just copy it! I mean it! The stick fits my large hand without putting buttons and switches in the way, the two buttons on the left side are in the perfect position: my thumb fits right between when I don't need them and they are right there when I do. the trigger and the secondary button are responsive and give good feed back. Unfortunately, the hat sucks the big one! It is too small and mushy. I find the high end thrustmaster to be the most uncomfortable stick I have ever used. Why would anyone a stick esensitally designed by the government?

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>I played Tie Fighter (cool game!) with a friend's Flightstick Pro and >CH Throttle (regular). Four buttons and a 4-way switch on the FS Pro >and 12 total programmable buttons/switch-positions on the throttle. >It was cool, but it wasn't enough for me. I got the FS Pro, but waited >for the Pro Throttle instead (20 buttons/switch-positions on the throttle >plus it can program the FS Pro, too, plus a digital throttle (can do keys) >so it can be used in games that don't use an analog throttle). It still

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does anybody know if there exists a TSR program to convert analog throttle signal to digital ? For example, sending one key when the throttle is all the way down, another when it is in the lower half, third in the zero position (with adjustable dead zone), fourth in the upper half and fifth when the throttle is full open. Keys could be user-mappable, making sequences like 0,-,<nothing>,+,9 possible. This doesn't sound like too hard to implement. PS. This thought came to me when playing Tie Fighter with Gravis Firebird... I suppose LucasArts are not coming up with a patch to allow for analog throttle in TF :(

Ok, here I go 1) Think MW2, the Clans. What makes the clan mechs so great? Eveything is modular! Try this idea. A base unit with just a shaft sticking out of it. The tip of the shaft contains pin connections where several different types of grips can be inserted. So you don't have to sell a right hand and left hand version of the stick just right or left hand grips. You can have flight grips, normal game grips, throttle grips, etc. 2) The base units can be daisy chained like current throttle grips so people can have one joystick and one throttle, or even 2 joysticks together (like Robotron) or even 2 people can play at the same time. 3) Make EVERYTHING programmable! That means the buttons, even the axis movements! 4) Make it digital. 5) Considering that grips will be interchangable, have several different grip configurations. I thought of one being like this. A 8 way top hat (all directions programable) 2 triggers, one for index finger, one for middle finger A little finger button At least 4 buttons accessible by the thumb 6) Get an add-on unit that can make all daisychained units wireless (use IR or RF) so people don't have to worry about all those wires. Heck make it so people can plug in their keyboards and make it wireless too! That all for now, gotta eat dinner.

I, for one, like this one...

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> Ok, here I go > 1) Think MW2, the Clans. What makes the clan mechs so great? Eveything >is modular! Try this idea. A base unit with just a shaft sticking out >of it. The tip of the shaft contains pin connections where several >different types of grips can be inserted. So you don't have to sell a >right hand and left hand version of the stick just right or left hand >grips. You can have flight grips, normal game grips, throttle grips, >etc. > 2) The base units can be daisy chained like current throttle grips so >people can have one joystick and one throttle, or even 2 joysticks >together (like Robotron) or even 2 people can play at the same time. > 3) Make EVERYTHING programmable! That means the buttons, even the axis >movements! > 4) Make it digital. > 5) Considering that grips will be interchangable, have several >different grip configurations. I thought of one being like this. > A 8 way top hat (all directions programable) > 2 triggers, one for index finger, one for middle finger > A little finger button > At least 4 buttons accessible by the thumb > 6) Get an add-on unit that can make all daisychained units wireless >(use IR or RF) so people don't have to worry about all those wires. >Heck make it so people can plug in their keyboards and make it >wireless too! >That all for now, gotta eat dinner.

Scott Stanchfield Gaithersburg, Maryland

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>If you have the time please fill in the following question and e-mail >it back to us. We have started on the design of a new high-end >joystick that I think most of you hard-core gamers will appreciate. >With your help maybe we can whip out a stick that is worthy of your >use without the need of taking out a loan to get it. >Since this is in an open forum, if any of the you who respond wish to >hear about the accumulated results we will be glad to pass them to >you. >Feel free to post your response in the newsgroups, but please also >send a copy to us via e-mail so that your input will be put to use. >Thanks beforehand for your response. Now for the question: >. >. >. >If you could change anything about your current joystick, what would >it be? (Please provide the name of your current stick and explain why) >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a microsoft sidewinder pro and my third wingman extreme, in 7 months, still under warrenty. the shape of the wingman is good. Ilike the button layout, ***, easy to work, there is a button under the knuckle of your thumb that is almost flush, you just squeeze the stick, good for cycling or flairs. the microsoft works smooth but is like holding a bar of soap the hat is indented, harder to work than an outty, (raised center) . it is too skinney at the top (hard to use hat and not accidentally hit the button between the thumb and hat). the buttons should be on either side of a wide top .Maybe a hat or rocker switch for the ring finger, bases seem good on both . the microsoft works great, but is shapped wrong. and what about weapons control? also microsoft says it wont work with thrustmaster or ch game card, it must mera digitally cause mine is hooked to a thrustmaster card. thats it for me Material Defender Crash Borden, The Ancient One aka

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>We will keep a list of you who helped for some kind of discount or >benefit in the future. Again, thank you for your time. >-Rich >We should have a permanent domain soon. Until then try the page bellow >for updated information. >-- >Richard Rice >---------------------------------------------- >JAG Technologies >http://www.io.com/~rokker [temporary]

>All military planes are designed for right handed control flight. This is because >a majority of people are right handed. If you want to be a fighter pilot, you >had better learn to be right handed. Little point of thought: What do you actually define as Majority? Surveys have pointed that the ratio Left / Right handers is around the 49,5 / 50,5 percent.. Just --slightly-- the majority.... NO FLAMES PLEASE lemme explain.. During the course of history, Roman-Catholic church linked the right hand with 'normal' and the left hand with 'the hand of the devil'. Children who pointed out to be left-handed were beaten. Beaten long enough to 'teach' them to work Right-handed. So in the end, the Right hand was seen as the 'factory standard' which explains the industrial compulsion to design Right Handed. Sure a factory standard has it's pro's: It's cheaper to produce and easier to teach how the stupid machine works, 'cause the controls are standardized. So in short: Flight controls are not right-handed, because the 'majority' is right-handed. They're right-handed for the sake of industrial standards. A standard which is chosen somewhere in time ever used since. Dennis Lemckert ----- People always love themselves best. But in a world so interconnected that harm to one is harm to all, the best way of loving one's self is to love everyone else, too -- Isaac Asimov --

Which surveys? I have read and heard in several places that left handers make up only 10% of the population. So with this taken as the percentage, it MAY make sense (may or may not be right) to make controls for right handers because they do make up a significant majority of the population. Kevin PS this does not leave out the industrial standard explanation, standards have sometimes eliminated better ideas.

: : >All military planes are designed for right handed control flight. This is because : >a majority of people are right handed. If you want to be a fighter pilot, you : >had better learn to be right handed. : : Little point of thought: What do you actually define as Majority? : Surveys have pointed that the ratio Left / Right handers is around the 49,5 / : 50,5 percent.. Just --slightly-- the majority.... what total bullshit what surveys did you read? the ratio is more like 9:1 or 10:1 in favour of right handers.. : : NO FLAMES PLEASE lemme explain.. : : During the course of history, Roman-Catholic church linked the right hand with : 'normal' and the left hand with 'the hand of the devil'. Children who pointed : out to be left-handed were beaten. Beaten long enough to 'teach' them to work : Right-handed. So in the end, the Right hand was seen as the 'factory standard' : which explains the industrial compulsion to design Right Handed. : Sure a factory standard has it's pro's: It's cheaper to produce and easier to : teach how the stupid machine works, 'cause the controls are standardized. : : So in short: Flight controls are not right-handed, because the 'majority' is : right-handed. They're right-handed for the sake of industrial standards. A : standard which is chosen somewhere in time ever used since. : : Dennis Lemckert : ----- : People always love themselves best. But in a world so : interconnected that harm to one is harm to all, the best way : of loving one's self is to love everyone else, too : -- Isaac Asimov -- :

I wonder if us lefties can claim compensation from the joystick manufacturers for being 'forced' to use right handed joysticks After all aren't we a minority, and minorities have rights! :-) We want positive discrimination in favour of lefties, or we'll sue for millions in compensation because of the psychological damage sustained by being forced to use control systems designed for right handed people! :-) Lefties of the world, unite! I'm sure a good lawyer will take up our case :-) Steve R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- My opinions are my own, so don't blame my employer!

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>: >: >All military planes are designed for right handed control flight. This is because >: >a majority of people are right handed. If you want to be a fighter pilot, you >: >had better learn to be right handed. >: >: Little point of thought: What do you actually define as Majority? >: Surveys have pointed that the ratio Left / Right handers is around the 49,5 / >: 50,5 percent.. Just --slightly-- the majority.... >what total bullshit >what surveys did you read? >the ratio is more like 9:1 or 10:1 in favour of right handers.. >: >:

Well just so you will know from this point on. Left handers make better lovers!!!! Just a fact. Noting more nothing less.

Being Left-handed (ok, save the wise-cracks) , I have turned to the CH Flightstick-Pro, and it has served me well, sure I would like a left-handed version of Thrustmaster products, but until then I'll stay with my trusty CH-Pro.

Right-Handed and proud of it I presume?..... No further comments thru Usenet please..... Replies via E-mail. Let's not waste bandwith on starting a discussion which is not on topic. Dennis ----- People always love themselves best. But in a world so interconnected that harm to one is harm to all, the best way of loving one's self is to love everyone else, too -- Isaac Asimov --

writes Do you get less chafing if you use your left hand....? ;) (Just kidding...!!)