HAWAII Issues

Everyone -- Well, having read through a whole slew of Hawaii-related material, I feel I must add to the growing literature on the subject. There are several issues I want to address: A) SERIES vs. PICK-UP RACES I think Series racing is a great idea, for the sole reason that it gives people a chance to race against people they know and trust. However, there is a tendency for series to become very exclusive and cliquish, and this distances the series from the pickup racers, not all of whom are kamikaze maniacs. I encourage all of the new Hawaii series to maintain open minds. Don't introvert your series or flaunt it -- give the pickup racers a chance. If I were a director again (heaven forbid), you bet your booties I'd be scouting the pickup races for new talent. Remember -- elitism is anathema to auto racing (heck, look at IRL and CART). In short, equal billing needs to be given to both pickup and series events. B) COMPLAINTS, ET AL Dangerous trend developing. New racers who make mistakes are being ostracized. Sure, there are a few out there who are running around bashing people for fun. But there have been a few incidents, like pace lap wrecks, where inexperience is mistaken for stupidity. One of the reasons this keeps happening is that more experienced drivers aren't offering to help. Basically, it's "new-guy-thrown-to-sharks" city. Winston Cup racing is unique because a new racer will get help from the old hands. This is where I see leagues being helpful -- there should be a STRATIFIED set of leagues, just like NASCAR has set up. There needs to be a Sportsman style league for 0 level racers, where people can learn what it is like to get in the middle of things. Once that training ground has served its purpose, you go on. But there HAS to be something open for all levels -- it's really ineffectual to say "Once you hit 5 you can join THE LEAGUE.. until then, you're SOL." I've heard calls for DAMAGE OFF races so that people don't get taken out by boneheads. Well, the only way to learn NOT to be a bonehead is to have to sit out a race or get many laps down from a damaged race car. Learning involves disappointment and pain occasionally. C) INDYCAR MULTIPLAYER Every time I read posts calling for this, I laugh. Imagine the carnage currently happening on Hawaii, and then put it in cars that get bent by lightly tapping something. The multicar pileups would be on the pace laps, especially at road courses. I'd say a CTRL-A key is in order -- In other words, pace/yellow lap autopilot. You can toggle it just like autobraking or manual shifting. That way, the sim takes over the car on pace laps so nobody gets rammed or spun out. When one-to-go comes out, people can then switch it off and go racing next lap. Just a thought. Anyway, I'm rambling. I just want to remind everyone that we're all newbies to racing (even Nim, Rhawn, and the other hotshots) and probably couldn't race a real car to save our lives. All this "rubbins racin" and revenge crapola that "Days of Thunder" made trendy might work on rec.autos.sport.nascar or whatever, but please don't take it onto the track. Ta-ta. _________________________________________ Tony Johns IWCCCARS Project Coordinator [link lost in import: /~iwcc/project.htm]

Ok you're just not making any sense here. There are three damage settings for ICR2. You can hit the frickin wall on a spinout on a 1 mile oval and still not get any damage most of the time (on arcade dam.). pileups would be>on the pace laps, especially at road courses. Here you seem to be suggesting that Nascar drivers are somehow better at following the pace car. Again, not making sense. say a CTRL-A key is in order -- In other words, pace/yellow lap>autopilot. You can toggle it just like autobraking or manual>shifting. That way, the sim takes over the car on pace laps so nobody>gets rammed or spun out. When one-to-go comes out, people can then>switch it off and go racing next lap. Just a thought. Ha ha ha... (rolling of the eyes)

No, since most of the Nascar courses are ovals, it's easier to have a clean pace lap - and we're STILL having problems. I would imagine total carnage at Watkins or Sears Point... I *can't* imagine getting through a pace lap at Vancouver or Laguna Seca without incident. ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

***space with: I stand corrected, then. There would be no problems, then, in your humble opinion if everyone ran ARCADE damage. Sounds like a hoot. No, you just THINK that's what I'm saying, Joshie. I'm saying that an IndyCar, having more throttle response, more fickle handling, etc., is easier to spin or get into an incident during a pace lap. Tell me, do you remember 1992 at Indy? Anyway, if you've been on Hawaii at ALL you know about the pace lap incidents that occur -- put the same drivers into an IndyCar at Surfer's Paradise in much closer proximity and twice-as-powerful cars, and what do you think will happen? Don't give me any bull about IndyCar drivers being "better" than NASCAR drivers, either. It's not a question of skill -- it's a question of being around 30 of your closest friends on a street or road course with unpredictable driving styles. The incidents on Hawaii would be child's play compared to an IndyCar service. Just keep laughing, kid. Like you've never used autobraking down pit road to avoid a black flag. _________________________________________ Tony Johns IWCCCARS Project Coordinator [link lost in import: /~iwcc/project.htm]

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>Subject: Re: HAWAII Issues >Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:20:03 GMT >***space with: >>Ok you're just not making any sense here. There are three damage settings >>for ICR2. You can hit the frickin wall on a spinout on a 1 mile oval and >>still not get any damage most of the time (on arcade dam.). >I stand corrected, then. There would be no problems, then, in your >humble opinion if everyone ran ARCADE damage. Sounds like a hoot.

Apparently you've never played ICR2... Everyone does their races in Arcade mode anyway. My name is Josh, you condescending nitwit. That's where the skill level restraints will come in handy. For the road courses -- yes, for the low-skilled, not running a pace lap might work a tad better. With practice comes heads up, defensive driving. Even with the AI, I always stay back and drive defensively on the start. "Kid"... nice touch. BTW, there should be an Alt-D (automatic drive) too eh? ...

***space with: Not everyone. I prefer racing with Realistic damage selected. I thought the REAL racers did it that way. Who's the nitwit, Josh? Me for calling you "Joshie" or you for completely missing the point of my original post and flaming me for it? Any condescension I sent your way pales in light of your ill-conceived reply to my post. Which makes you a good driver. Any driver who has patience and experience with the sim has a good chance of doing well. But even you would have to admit that driving a pace lap, much less laps at full speed, on a road course is a MUCH different proposition than oval racing -- which will result in about ten times the grief that Hawaii is currently generating even for the veterans. Hey, if you think it's a valid option, don't let me stop you from suggesting it. I wonder, will you roll your eyes as much in the future when some newbie rear-ends you on a yellow at Portland because you slowed for the Festival curve? You may not think an option like that is warranted, but what about less experienced drivers? Not everyone is as skilled and talented a road racer as you seem to be. You've proven my point about the discrepancy between beginners and the so-called sim-racing veterans quite beautifully. Thanks. _________________________________________ Tony Johns IWCCCARS Project Coordinator [link lost in import: /~iwcc/project.htm]