GP2 - Assesment and first impressions

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> Hi there, > being a GP1 fanatic (and Indycar) for years (since the amiga version) > and having waited almost a year for its sequel, here are my comments for > GP2: > Did we waited too long for GP2? Maybe from all the snapshots we saw we > thought we would get a game that only a Pentium 400 Mhz can run. My > expectations were too high, I now realize that. My first 2 hours of > playing were so-so, not too sure if it was as good as I hoped, but after > playing the whole WE long, I think I can now say that it is a very good > game in lots of ways. The driving model is absolutely brillant, unseen > in any other games. Yes, one need a huge Pentium to run SuperVGA > decently, unfortunately. Even on my 133, I have to compromise a lot on > details, but being a racing fanatic, only the track matters, not the > scenery... > What really botters is the feel of GP1 everywhere... I can't not believe > they have just enhanced GP1, but still, all the small annoying things > from GP1 are still there: > - When a session finishes, you can not finish your lap, it just stops > right on time. Not very realistic! > - The Monitor in the pits is as ugly as the one in GP1. Big characters > and only 6 lines displayed. What is SVGA there for? I would have loved > to have the real thing, with 24 lines showing, number of laps left per > car, and the ability to scroll up and down. > - The***pit has not improved that much from GP1, just a revamp. There > are still options there that have got nothing to do with a racing >***pit, like Driving Aids, Opposition level and difficulty indicators. > Come on, this is a formula one simulation, not a arcade***pit. I want > to see a digitilized***ipt, maybe even different ones for each team. I > would also have like a smaller one, but with a view showing the tyres > spinning and turning, 'a la' Indycar, which really does a lot for > realism. > - This engine is really the best, you just can not overrev it, even > going down from 6th to 1th in 0.5 seconds. Also like in GP1, it will > decide for you if it is time to go up one gear. Come on, if I want to go > in second, there is a good reason, even at 5000 RPM. That slipping > clutch has not been changed from GP1, so one should not try to change > too early. Can we please get a new clutch.. > - The Opponents still struggle at the first corner of a race, they seem > to battle to see the gaps and go very slowly. This cause an unrealsitic > jam. > Thew following things are what I would like to be changed: > - Steering lock to be part of a race setup, not as a general settings as > 2 circuits are never quite the same and often requires diffrent > settings. > - Dynamic change of braking spread (front/back) during the race to take > fuel load in consideration (if the front wheels were shown in the > cokipit view, one could realize if it is the front or the back locking. > - The sounds of the other cars would really bring another touch of > realism. One gets stressed in Indycar when one can hear another engione > in the background, or when one waits to hera the opponent going down the > gears to start outbracking him. > - I would also have liked to be able to restore a saved game from the > first menu going out of a race. This is a detail but when one crashes it > is nice to just quickly reload the same game. > - A pit to car radio feature would be gorgeous. > - Weather changes would be a + > - Network support would be a ++ > Please nobody get me wrong reading my wish-list, I love the game and the > most important things have been provided. This list is just there in > order to get this brillant game hopefully to a status of untouchable > quality. If the details mentioned here above can be upgraded to the > quality of the driving model, it will be long before any other game will > beat GP2. > Regarding the performance of GP2 on a standard machine, I think that all > those brilliant things that make GP2 have a price. Maybe we waited so > long because they could not release the game until people had more > adequate hardware, who knows? I can see that the route to go now is when > Geoff comes back from Holiday, he should think about converting GP2 to > use WIN-G, to get GP2 to run under WIN95. If he can get there, he will > then benefit from the future support Win95 will provide for 3D > accelerators. When we get there, I think GP2 will run full textured > details on my machine and decently on a DX2-66 (basic S-VGA). I can not > wait! Geoff, are you there?

I agree with this, I expected it to be a whole new game but in reality it's "just" a more realistic GP1. It's the best sim out there, but that wasn't going to be hard as gp1 probably still had the edge on indycar just not the svga. It is good but should have been better. I've played gp1 since the Amiga and really in the 5? years since not a huge amount has changed.

Hi there, being a GP1 fanatic (and Indycar) for years (since the amiga version) and having waited almost a year for its sequel, here are my comments for GP2: Did we waited too long for GP2? Maybe from all the snapshots we saw we thought we would get a game that only a Pentium 400 Mhz can run. My expectations were too high, I now realize that. My first 2 hours of playing were so-so, not too sure if it was as good as I hoped, but after playing the whole WE long, I think I can now say that it is a very good game in lots of ways. The driving model is absolutely brillant, unseen in any other games. Yes, one need a huge Pentium to run SuperVGA decently, unfortunately. Even on my 133, I have to compromise a lot on details, but being a racing fanatic, only the track matters, not the scenery... What really botters is the feel of GP1 everywhere... I can't not believe they have just enhanced GP1, but still, all the small annoying things from GP1 are still there: - When a session finishes, you can not finish your lap, it just stops right on time. Not very realistic! - The Monitor in the pits is as ugly as the one in GP1. Big characters and only 6 lines displayed. What is SVGA there for? I would have loved to have the real thing, with 24 lines showing, number of laps left per car, and the ability to scroll up and down. - The***pit has not improved that much from GP1, just a revamp. There are still options there that have got nothing to do with a racing ***pit, like Driving Aids, Opposition level and difficulty indicators. Come on, this is a formula one simulation, not a arcade***pit. I want to see a digitilized***ipt, maybe even different ones for each team. I would also have like a smaller one, but with a view showing the tyres spinning and turning, 'a la' Indycar, which really does a lot for realism. - This engine is really the best, you just can not overrev it, even going down from 6th to 1th in 0.5 seconds. Also like in GP1, it will decide for you if it is time to go up one gear. Come on, if I want to go in second, there is a good reason, even at 5000 RPM. That slipping clutch has not been changed from GP1, so one should not try to change too early. Can we please get a new clutch.. - The Opponents still struggle at the first corner of a race, they seem to battle to see the gaps and go very slowly. This cause an unrealsitic jam. Thew following things are what I would like to be changed: - Steering lock to be part of a race setup, not as a general settings as 2 circuits are never quite the same and often requires diffrent settings. - Dynamic change of braking spread (front/back) during the race to take fuel load in consideration (if the front wheels were shown in the cokipit view, one could realize if it is the front or the back locking. - The sounds of the other cars would really bring another touch of realism. One gets stressed in Indycar when one can hear another engione in the background, or when one waits to hera the opponent going down the gears to start outbracking him. - I would also have liked to be able to restore a saved game from the first menu going out of a race. This is a detail but when one crashes it is nice to just quickly reload the same game. - A pit to car radio feature would be gorgeous. - Weather changes would be a + - Network support would be a ++ Please nobody get me wrong reading my wish-list, I love the game and the most important things have been provided. This list is just there in order to get this brillant game hopefully to a status of untouchable quality. If the details mentioned here above can be upgraded to the quality of the driving model, it will be long before any other game will beat GP2. Regarding the performance of GP2 on a standard machine, I think that all those brilliant things that make GP2 have a price. Maybe we waited so long because they could not release the game until people had more adequate hardware, who knows? I can see that the route to go now is when Geoff comes back from Holiday, he should think about converting GP2 to use WIN-G, to get GP2 to run under WIN95. If he can get there, he will then benefit from the future support Win95 will provide for 3D accelerators. When we get there, I think GP2 will run full textured details on my machine and decently on a DX2-66 (basic S-VGA). I can not wait! Geoff, are you there?

Great review. Thanks! It isn't included? I'm sorry. But I *EXPECTED* as much tweaking to be allowed as we have with ICR2. You must have missed something :-) Do you mean brake bias? As in adjusted from the***pit? Do the F1 drivers do this, or is it computer controlled? If the real drivers can do this, I expect the best F1 game to allow it too. You can't hear the other opponants? Huh... I guess again I thought (my problem right there :-) ) that this would be the same as ICR2. Hoped for this. Hoped for this too...

Great review but a few things I would like to add. Yes I would expect to be able to change the steering lock. Yes it most definitly is adjustable during the race in the real cars. Its what caused M.Andretti to go off in the wet ,dry race at San Marino he was fiddling with the brake bias and got it wrong. Not a bashing of M.Andretti as I am one of the few people who think that with the amount of practice he got he did well. Just needed more commitment. From what I understand it is not possible to hear the other cars in the real thing. Just think about it you have an unmuffled Ferrari 12" behind your ears <VBG> dont think you will hear much of anything. Besides I would imagine that the industrial ear plugs they wear would take care of it as well. Also in a different form of racing I never heard people coming from behind, usually the first sign was a wheel being jammed into your line.<VBG> Desert Motorcycle Racing. Me too. This omission is almost unforgivable. F1 greatest drivers were almost always rain specialists. The decisions whether to go to wets or to show true brilliance and stay on slicks always showed who was great and who transcended greatness. Senna, Shumacher and Alesi ..... One of my fondest wishes would be to be able to race the old circuits like the 14 mile long SPA, the old Nurbergring, the Old Interlagos. Wouldnt it be fun to see how well the new cars would go around those tracks? How about an alternate Grand Prix season where all the old tracks would be included in the place of the new versions. I mean we dont have to worry about dying. I really dont like driving between barriers on these rinky dink things they call circuits. The Banks at Monza.....hehehe..oh boy that would be fun in a Williams..... Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand

> What really botters is the feel of GP1 everywhere... I can't not believe > they have just enhanced GP1, but still, all the small annoying things > from GP1 are still there: I agree with most of your points. I want: 1. To be able to finish my lap at the end of a seession. 2. To be able to see all my opponents on the qualifying screen in the pits. 3. To be able to see my front wheels. 4. For the cars to look a little less cartoon like - although the drivers' heads looking where they are turning is very cool. However, my biggest gripes are: 4: WHY can't I hear my opponents? This is rediculous! 5: I want mirrors like in ICR2, so I can tell where a car is when it pulls along side me. Once a car passes my back wheels it is in my blind spot! It makes going through a corner side-by-side very difficult. Still enjoying myself though - driving model is very cool, especially with traction help off. Spin spin spin :) Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

It is possible to change the steering lock, but only from a high level menu, where the controls are defined. I would have like that feature to be track-specific. Brake bias is definitively adjusted by F1 drivers from the***pit as the race goes. No sign of this in GP2

JL> 4: WHY can't I hear my opponents? This is rediculous! I'm not sure that the real drivers can - with the noise of the engines and it being so close, wind rush, etc I'm not sure they can either. JL> 5: I want mirrors like in ICR2, so I can tell where a car is when it JL> pulls along side me. Once a car passes my back wheels it is in my JL> blind spot! It makes going through a corner side-by-side very JL> difficult. Their mirrors don't show that.....they have the same problem. Too real? Cheers! --- * RM 1.3 U0414 * .....And fade to grey.....applause..... (c) Cliche Taglines

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> >Regarding the performance of GP2 on a standard machine, I think that all > >those brilliant things that make GP2 have a price. Maybe we waited so > >long because they could not release the game until people had more > >adequate hardware, who knows? I can see that the route to go now is when > >Geoff comes back from Holiday, he should think about converting GP2 to > >use WIN-G, to get GP2 to run under WIN95. If he can get there, he will > >then benefit from the future support Win95 will provide for 3D > >accelerators. When we get there, I think GP2 will run full textured > >details on my machine and decently on a DX2-66 (basic S-VGA). I can not > >wait! Geoff, are you there?

As I recall, Win-G only supports your card's built-in 2d acceleration. Since DirectX2/Direct3d is *already* out, if a Win95/Direct3d version could be made (perhaps with 24-bit textures?) it would be really great. Before anyone starts on a Win95 version, though - I really liked the idea of not only weather conditions, but weather that changes during the course of the race (preferably with "roostertails" in the rain :) Shifting wind conditions and occasional gusts might be a extra cool addition as well. Anyone have any feedback on this? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Mouneimne | "I hate spreadsheets, | ---CS-Anime-Bab5-SegaAM-Mtn_Bikes-RPGs-Newton-Ducatis-Hk-Glock-Rally--

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> JL> 4: WHY can't I hear my opponents? This is rediculous! > I'm not sure that the real drivers can - with the noise of the engines > and it being so close, wind rush, etc I'm not sure they can either. > JL> 5: I want mirrors like in ICR2, so I can tell where a car is when it > JL> pulls along side me. Once a car passes my back wheels it is in my > JL> blind spot! It makes going through a corner side-by-side very > JL> difficult. > Their mirrors don't show that.....they have the same problem. Too real?

Yes, but a real driver can turn his head and look to the side. Watch a real GP start - the drivers are looking side to side like carzy to spot other cars. Julian _____________________________________________________________________ University of Oxford

> JL> 5: I want mirrors like in ICR2, so I can tell where a car is when it > JL> pulls along side me. Once a car passes my back wheels it is in my > JL> blind spot! It makes going through a corner side-by-side very > JL> difficult. > Their mirrors don't show that.....they have the same problem. Too real? But a real driver has the advantage of peripheral vision and can turn their head, no? How big IS this blind spot? (Still waiting for GP2 to be released).. :) Neil -- Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.. Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

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> Yes, but a real driver can turn his head and look to the side. Watch a > real GP start - the drivers are looking side to side like carzy to spot > other cars. > Julian > _____________________________________________________________________ > University of Oxford

Hello! That isn't quite true this season. In -96 cars they have new, more safer cocpits with high sidewalls, they can't see to their side anymore. That is why Mika Hakkinen got his new enhanced mirrors which allow him to see a bit more. Yes, I know that GP2 has -94 cars. Greetings Toni

GP2 has a great driving model, Graphics, Sound and Setup options and pretty much every thing else is ratshit. No Weather, No Network, No paintkit, No 96 season, Not bing able to finish laps in qualifying is a real pain in the ass and I cannot believe that it is still in the game. I want to be able to load games from the first menu when I exit. I want to be able to hear other cars. I want Katyama to be hopeless like he is in real life. Please bring out a patch to fix these things. You did have enough time to do them already though. Otherwise congratulations on the best driving game ever. Oliver Talbot On Tuesday, 23 July 1996, Julian Love wrote... > > What really botters is the feel of GP1 everywhere... I can't not believe

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> > they have just enhanced GP1, but still, all the small annoying things > > from GP1 are still there: > I agree with most of your points. I want: > 1. To be able to finish my lap at the end of a seession. > 2. To be able to see all my opponents on the qualifying screen in the

pits. > 3. To be able to see my front wheels. > 4. For the cars to look a little less cartoon like - although the drivers' heads > looking where they are turning is very cool. > However, my biggest gripes are: > 4: WHY can't I hear my opponents? This is rediculous! > 5: I want mirrors like in ICR2, so I can tell where a car is when it pulls along > side me. Once a car passes my back wheels it is in my blind spot! It makes going > through a corner side-by-side very difficult. > Still enjoying myself though - driving model is very cool, especially with > traction help off. Spin spin spin :) > Julian > _____________________________________________________________________ > University of Oxford

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:35:30 GMT, Oliver Talbot

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>real pain in the ass and I cannot believe that it is still in the game. I >want to be able to load games from the first menu when I exit. I want to >be able to hear other cars. I want Katyama to be hopeless like he is in >real life. Please bring out a patch to fix these things. You did have >enough time to do them already though. Otherwise congratulations on the >best driving game ever. > Oliver Talbot

While your asking for things..... is there anything I can do for you? You sound like my six year old nephew - Pathetic!

I just got GP2 today; first copy I saw, at walden software in CT, USA. It is odd not hearing other cars... I thought maybe that was just me not being able to find the right menu to turn them on. But it seems they just don't exist. OK, I'll get used to it. Anybody able to tell me how to restart a race without hitting <ESC>? Something like ICR2's <shift-R>? Perhaps there is no such thing. Any other possible keyboard functions not detailed in the manual? Also, what do you lose by doing the 9 meg install instead of the... 50+ meg one? I'm only capable of VGA, if that matters. Fantastic sim, truly everything it was billed to be. Now I see why everyone respects this Geoff Crammond. GP2 will be a pleasant break from ICR2... not that I want to quit ICR2, but I did need a break from it. Some time away might breathe some new life when I come back. I think they will end up being a very nice complement to each other in the end; ICR2's spikey, spare, user-unfriendly features and bugs (but fantastic racing) against GP2's bulky, slow, confusing GUI but incredible graphics/VR engine (and hopefully incredible racing).

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> Fantastic sim, truly everything it was billed to be. Now I see why > everyone respects this Geoff Crammond. GP2 will be a pleasant break > from ICR2... not that I want to quit ICR2, but I did need a break from > it. Some time away might breathe some new life when I come back. > I think they will end up being a very nice complement to each other in > the end; ICR2's spikey, spare, user-unfriendly features and bugs (but > fantastic racing) against GP2's bulky, slow, confusing GUI but > incredible graphics/VR engine (and hopefully incredible racing).

I was thinking along these lines too, but after a quick burst of ICR2 I'm inclined to think I won't be using it much any more. The 'glued to the track' car physics just doesn't compare, and GP2 manages a far greater feeling of 'being there' (IMHO, but what else?). The only advantage of ICR2 for me, is that it runs faster... Regards, James.

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>GP2 has a great driving model, Graphics, Sound and Setup options and >pretty much every thing else is ratshit. No Weather, No Network, No >paintkit, No 96 season, Not bing able to finish laps in qualifying is a >real pain in the ass and I cannot believe that it is still in the game. I >want to be able to load games from the first menu when I exit. I want to >be able to hear other cars. I want Katyama to be hopeless like he is in >real life. Please bring out a patch to fix these things. You did have >enough time to do them already though. Otherwise congratulations on the >best driving game ever.

GC & team. I'd just like to advise that not all Antipodeans hold the same point of view espoused so eloquently by my fellow countryman above. Who wants to drive in the friggin' rain!!!??? Compared to Indycar 2, the sound in GP2 is SUPREME. At least the aural peak actually matches the dynamic & visual RPM peak in this sim and it sounds like a real GP car should, not a ***y sound sample from a 'Kwaka' meg so that children and dogs can get overe***d by the pure volume of the noise! Granted, secondary effect of other participants would've been preferred, but rather the way it is than a poxy frame rate in exchange for noise. Graphics "ratshit"???? What are you running it on ...an XT? Setup options probably are difficult for the "get in and go crowd". Speaking subjectively, I like them as I don't mind being given choice and thinking for myself. NO NETWORK???!!! (L*A*N that is, MP IPX LAN, not some ***y "rent by the hour" online service!) ...here I most EMPHATICALLY agree. GP2 SUX, STINX or whatever contemporary vernacular most suitably describes this abysmal decision. As for a paintkit, well I quite like the job Crammond & Co did on the originals. Ambivilence probably best describes how I feel on this one. Same about the '96 season. All in all great job given that all is compromise. My only REAL criticism is the NO NETWORK (LAN) DECISION. SUX+++++++ Regards, --- Cogito Ergo Sum --- * * Fidonet: (temporarily unavailable) * Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia *